Fuck developers wanting job security

Pretty sure working 100 hour weeks will indeed destroy your body, fuck outta here with that retarded boomer mentality.

This. I'm a software engineer. I went to school and now do low level graphics programming, physics, and networking.

Unfortunately I get the same title "dev" and code monkeys call themselves "engineers" now. There's no official way of separating myself from them.

In my case, I'm so valuable I will never even think of unionizing. I have a skill set not many can match.

Unions are for retards who can't get their shit together, they're replaceable so they dumb their paycheck into some company to protect them from being fired

You know you have to sign a contract when you are hired to agree to work overtime. It's standard stuff and they agree to it and get paid for it.

If you don't want to work long hours with deadlines why would you ever get in to anything involving coding or design?

Super intense crunch like that isn't a necessity, it's almost always the result of bad management and shouldn't be legal in any first world nation.
Again, saying "don't like it? just don't work there!" is retarded boomer shit and doesn't fix anything, stop defending incompetent corporations.

this is now a k-on thread

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entitled manchild

Any job is going to wreak havoc on both your physical and mental health if you have to work 80+ hours per week for months at a time.

The vidya industry is not at all representative of how working in coding/design is in other industries. I am a software developer and I almost never need or am expected to put in extra hours, and on the rare occasions when I do, it's only a 1 or 2 week "crunch" and then back to normal.

No one on this board has any significant experience in the workforce, nor do they have any idea what a union is and how they function. It's completely pointless to discuss this here.

>I'm a NEET who leeches off society/my family and I demand people who create the media that I use to fill the void in my life have less rights.

Not sure I follow this kind of logic.

Agree. Much prefer my money going to shareholders.

Not saying its's normal or easy. Just that they agreed to it and if its so hard they can quit.

These new waves of SJW articles are making Devs seem like slaves. But it's important to know that these people signed up for it and they are free to leave. They just don't because they want the pity, attention AND the paycheck.

When it all boils down its just a job. If you don't like it you quit and go somewhere else and when you get hired you make damn well sure you know what you are signing up for.

Artists get paid for their work. Did you not know that?
Are you one of those morons who think artists should not be paid for doing work because working isn't actually working if you might enjoy it?

>Why don't these developers just leave the company while living in one of the highest cost of living areas on planet Earth while having families they need to support

Bit of a head scratcher to be frank

Shareholders are investors that put money into the company. Where do union dues go?

>they can just quit
Have you ever worked a job before?
Do you live with you parents?

>devs are NPCs and have no idea how to relocate and can only stand in one spot bitching.

cool contribution i guess.

"Just work somewhere else bro!"
You're still arguing that an entire industry should be run on unacceptable working conditions, regardless of what any individual does.
What's so hard to understand about "this is both unnecessary and unacceptable"?
Are you really that desperate for games to be 10 bucks cheaper that you're fine with the people creating them spending their lifes in complete and utter misery?
Kill yourself, entitled mutt.

I wasn't being facetious

my bad. I just assumes a /pol/ leak.

Ackchyually there were unions before the socialist nonsense during the XIX, all the benefits unions boast about were individually decided intra company. Unions BAD is a meme from neocons

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Move. There is literally no reason a fucking video game company has to be located in California.

Ah yes, obviously that's a decision the individual developers get to make.

That's some social darwinist and redscare era type mentality that's got you by your sack, my dude.

It’s their problem, not mine, that they allow themselves to be doormats.

>Not part of a union
Let me guess, no insurance on your car and house either, right?

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this.

Devs still want the fat paycheck so it's all noise.

Guess what? There are plenty of companies that need a software developer. They don’t have to work on video games.

I wonder if this is the kinda mentality that causes conservatism, i can't imagine being this unempathetic and selfish.

>developers get treated like shit
>"lol that's their problem, not mine"
>developers start pushing to not be treated like shit
>"fuck 'em, it's their fault for allowing it"

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>i can't imagine being this unempathetic and selfish.

Feed some homeless then faggot. These poor employed devs getting paid to work 100 hours a week and building a massive nest egg must have it so hard!

What kind of skill can you possibly have to not be on the brink of being replaced by Pajeet?

You realize renaissance artists were propped up by patrons right? It was basically a job for them.

Being white

I wouldn’t fault them for actually trying to fix their situation, but if all they do is whine and try to make me fight their battles for them then of course I’m not going to be pleased.

For real tho.

Read the post again, you fucking illiterate.

i think you are severely overestimating how much money your typical vidya industry dev is earning. just because Gaben and Tim Sweeney have piles of cash doesn't mean that everybody in the industry does.

Social skills

how on earth are they making you fight their battles for them? how have you had to do ANYTHING at all because of them campaigning for better working conditions?

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Whats different between software engineer and code monkey? I'm not aware of the industry workings. I'm a Microbiologist but my brother is studying Software Development.

You wrote what you're currently working with, I sure as fuck hope that's not why you think you can't be replaced.

There are two end results.

1. They outsource most development. Now all games will be extremely buggy messes for the next decade, until everyone collectively realizes "shit, there was a reason we had white developers!" and everything goes back to normal

2. Unions "work," everything is the same except game prices double and games take twice the development time on average

Neither is a good outcome for consumers

fundamentally, the difference is really just programming skill and the level of difficulty of the programming that you do. "code monkey" is just a derogatory term for low-skill programmers or people that only do simple work.

Software engineers= architects
Code moneys= construction workers.

He still thinks that his 4 year degree means he's capable of something that other's aren't. Should we tell him?

Even the dumbest game programming jobs are not at risk of being replaced by Indians. The programming is too difficult and you need good communication skills

A code monkey is basically a scripter. It's hardly different than using drag and drop unreal blueprints. They are extremely low skill, I've never seen one with potential to do more.

Software engineer is a blanket term for specialized programmer, in my mind. You must have the educational background and experience to do something very few else could do. If you're giving dev talks at GDC you're probably an engineer.

So is there any difference between Software developer and software engineer?

Why are game consumers and game journalists all talking about a game developers union? It has nothing to do with you at all

>programmer
>communication skills

There aren't "code monkeys" in game development. The closest thing you get are artists who do Unity programming on the side. There aren't low skill game programming jobs. The only low skill game development jobs are things like QA and community manager and all that other bullshit

>2. Unions "work," everything is the same except game prices double and games take twice the development time on average
But that literally hasn't happen. You're retarded if you think there doesn't already exist unionized game devs.

Code monkeys basically have no decision making authority, their work requires little actual creativity. Software engineers have more freedom.

really hoping that we kick this corporate game development age.

People have good ideas and gamers are hungry for them. I mean do games even need these massive marketing campaign anymore?

Correct, you need to work on a team and understand what is required of you and what will make a better game. Third worlders are terrible at this, so terrible it isn't worth working with them

Skill level. Like the difference between an entry level lab analyst and a project lead.

>before the socialist nonsense
>during the XIX
lmao

nowadays the two terms are used interchangeably by everybody except /g/

Ah ok.

Unions used top be about getting together and agreeing that if shit didn't improve they would walk.

Now unions are money hungry monsters. There are so many examples of them going bad. Take farming for instance. You are part of the farmers union. But to reap any benefits you have to use pesticides, seeds, equipment and whatever else the union demands or they cut you off. Of and the union representative son is in charge of pesticide distribution in that area so you have to agree to the 5 year contract because the union says so.

>t. doesn't work in the industry.
You're fooling yourself. Vast majority of ((((((programmers)))))) in the industry are code monkeys. Not everyone needs to be able to write their own physics engine to be able to make games, but the ones who do are irreplaceable.

the film industry has been unionized for a long time and neither of those things have happened to Hollywood yet, so apparently your end results will take at least several decades to manifest.

>You are part of the farmers union. But to reap any benefits you have to use pesticides, seeds, equipment and whatever else the union demands or they cut you off. Of and the union representative son is in charge of pesticide distribution in that area so you have to agree to the 5 year contract because the union says so.
Sounds like bullshit, any source of this shit happening?

>Job security
Getting laid off every two or three years because a studio can't budget is bullshit. Not having anything to look forward to after your game comes out but moving to another city and starting over is bullshit. Having to work mandatory 60+ hour weeks for years is bullshit. Having to put up with retarded hazing from seniors who feel like they've "made it" and you need to "pay your dues" is bullshit. Treating your QA testers like they're subhuman is bullshit. Having to pretend any of this is okay because of the perks and fringe benefits is bullshit.

I'm glad I left the industry.

I work in the game industry. You probably work in web dev or something similar where programmers are truly bad and you can lose your job to an outsourced company from India. The only truly low-skill game programming jobs are hybrid positions like scripters who also do design work or writing or art, there are no code monkeys in game dev

unionized game industry will never be a thing because the people who are skilled enough to truly matter will never want to join a union and the people who do want to join a union will be easily replaced. Game industry doesn't work like Hollywood, Hollywood has production studios which are seperate from the creative talent, in the game industry everyone works at the same company

How many whites are in films now adays? The price of movie tickets has skyrocketed as well.

No, I also work in gamedev, at a larger studio. The vast majority of those diversity hire programmers are pure trash. It's very hard to find good help

>diversity hire programmers
If your company wants to destroy itself that's their choice, I don't believe that's a sustainable business model

> where do union dues go?
What is not outright pocketed by the union brass generally smgets slushed into political contributions, funding for unrelated NGOs and distributed to various (((activist))) groups.

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people love to use analogies comparing tech industries to the car industry, so let me try it: the fact that automotive design engineers work for the same company as assembly line workers doesn't mean that the workers can't unionize.

EA DICE are unionized and has been since at least 2008 as a way to (among other things) ensure overtime didn't went overboard.

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I wouldn't doubt but this is the type of thing that only happens in the US. I'm from the third world and the day a union leader tries to pull that shit, specially in a farming union, is the day before the one where he'll be murdered.

yes it does.

People getting paid more won't walk or contribute when for people that get paid less and are less educated. Believe whatever fluff you want but people will always put their own value first.

EA has a decent margin. They don't pay out dividends so they retain all of their earnings. Glassdoor has their average cash bonus as $14k. Their earnings were a little over a billion in 2018. At 9,000 employees, say they took $50m and disbursed it as a cash bonus at the end of the year along with whatever they already send out. Assuming on average people actually receive $14k as a bonus every year (which I figure is warped by the executive bonuses), then you could increase that by about $9k setting aside only 5% of total earnings. That would be a 64% increase in the yearly bonus of $14k. Furthermore, the average salary (again, likely warped by upper salaries) was around $90k. A $9k bonus would be a 10% increase over your salary! Pretty decent little raise. And that is a pretty minor dip into the existing mass of profits.

Which is just to say that for the big developers/publishers there doesn't necessarily have to be any increases in price or anything like that. Plus, unions can manifest in any number of ways. They don't always kill overtime or anything like that, they just demand better compensation for the crunch. So instead of longer development times, you may just find that they demand greater cash bonuses on the profits at the end of the year. Basically, greater inclusion in the results of their work, which can end up having the effect of making people want to create better games so they can maybe get better bonuses.

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this but unironically

Automotive design engineers do not do the same thing as assembly line workers. A senior programmer can do everything a junior programmer does, ten times faster. Hollywood unions work because there is a seperation of the labour and the creative sides of the business. In games they are pretty much completely inseperable

>litterally a jewish shill

Fuck you and everyone who thinks like you, if these people weren't getting overworked to the bone you wouldn't be getting your precious video games you mouthbreathing retard. Same for all the shitty fucking "" anime"" you watch. Why the fuck would you defend a corporation that exploits people you fucking brainwashed pile of incest.

>haha guys I'm on welfare wagies btfo!!
>hurrrr devs are so entitled
Unironically kill yourself

i'm not vidya dev, just a clueless junior software developer. what is the purpose of unions in software development? why should i need it? if i wouldn't like working at my place, i'd just take another job, market has a huge demand for devs

>Always wanted to make video games, was into the weird niche touches that go over most people's head in video games. (Ex. Character health bar freezes when frozen in game, when the game is at night character is more often to yawn or more likely to sustain the sleep aliment)
>Get into computer science, love working on the coding homework, however lecture stuff is kinda harsh on me
>Still push through because one day I'll be able to make a game
>Hear about pajeets taking over, how certain skill sets are 1 in a million, and experience is more important than anything, that I'm wasting my time with a degree
>Starting to want to just stop my degree all together and just pursue something else

Fuck man, I just wanted to help make video games

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You do realize a big chunk of devs are programmers who couldn't give less of a fuck about the art team, right?

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If you are good at programming then you can work on video games, don't listen to naysayers when they have no clue and neither do you

why dont those devs make their own games? oh wait, most code monkeys are terrible writers, and most writers are terrible artists, and most artists are awful people.

To be fair, 99% of those working in the gaming industry have no talent for making a game that draws more attention than PONG. And they are aware of this so they know that the only chance for a better living condition is to try to force the boss to pay more through a conspiracy among the employees.

Good idea, man, let's make bad management illegal. That's goiung to work very well for sure. The government just need to hire a lot of bureaucrats to analyze on a case-by-case basis and decide which entrepreneur is within the law and which will have to pay a fine to support Leviathan.

Unions are fucking retarded. Unions make people lazy and defiant.

last i remember we claimed that games are art so that we could put tiddies in games as if it was the famous painting "birth of venus" or something. now people claim games are art to sell you post post post post whateveristic pieces of poop or empty canvases with a single black square you'd see in a museum of modern art.
what the hell happened

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get experience making and finishing indie stuff while getting a degree. shit like ludum dare and similar game jams are the place for you to be in right now.

DON'T LISTEN TO FAGGOTS WHO SAY DEGREE IS WORTHLESS
degree is kinda useless if you've spent your entire childhood on vidya modding internet forum and got the right friends who can introduce you, otherwise good fucking luck finding a software development job with no degree. if you enjoy programming, keep studying, get degree, you'll find a work easily as long as you're not a retard.

and you can start making your own vidya right now at this very moment if you have five minutes to read unity documentation and basic tutorials. start having fun, you'll learn loads of stuff
in my limited experience the worst thing is the moment you start to understand that your small ideas might be good, but you have no imagination to fill the blanks. you'll figure out a cool puzzle game mechanics that could easily be controlled in google cardboard vr, you start making it, you're having loads of fun writing scripts and overall structure using placeholders, and then suddenly you realize that you have no good ideas for twenty more levels and your game ends on tutorial
but you might be different, and i wish you to be different. indie devs exist and they do their cool small shit all the time

nobody in art has job security

fucking retard

Both skilled and unskilled workers fought for unionization at its peak though. Skilled workers were the most successful at it too. Its very possible, it is just harder now with everbodys short term mindsets.

Cinema has unions too and no one questions whether or not is art.

Unions now are not the same as unions at their peak.

Unions now prioritize profit over people.

>Devs constantly claim games are art and they are artists
No, game designers/literal idea guys or pretentious indie game devs do

>unions during the XIX
Unions are fucking useless, they ignore the people they are supposed to protect, they defend corrupted friends, and use money on useless shit, unions are cancer in my country.

>Devs constantly claim games are art and they are artists
they dont, indie devs do. and regularly fail.

>when they have the opportunity to make more money its a job and they need to unionize
the problem is that they are not getting more money for exceedingly more work. publishers get richer, prohibit anything that could resemble art, and developers get poorer.

I wish it were that easy, my brother.

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I want to go balls deep in Azusas asshole.

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