The problem with Final Fantasy XII's real-time with pause system

>the slew of comments like "FFXII is the only RTwP game I enjoy" or "FFXII is what Infinity Engine combat should have been like"

This never happened.

>separating linked points by double spacing
Everyone is taught NOT to do shit like that when they're 8, it's just a reddit formatting habit from wanting to new line.

You guys do realize that you’re talking to WRPGfag, right?

PS2 limitations bro, same reason you can't cast multiple spells at the same time and everything is queued
anyway, the real problem here was the shitty story

>Still replying to WRPG-Kun copypasta in the Reiwa Era

you sure know your shit about Reddit, faggot. Why don't you go back?

>What is FFXII?
This is a cyclical argumnt, you retard, which is a logical fallacy. Your argument was that FFXII was styled after ATB games.

How could it have been, when:

>Every RtwP game ever made lets you freely move around and act in real-time.

>No ATB game allows this.

FFXII plays like an RTwP game (albeit one with shit interface and shit controls) and has only superficial similarities with ATB games.

>has only superficial similarities with ATB games.
Babby's first FF?

Lots of people want action gameplay where they're the big damn hero. They seem to prefer this over real time (pausable) strategy with a fantasy party. Understand their perspective, rather than constantly bothering to slow down the action to micromanage a whole group of people, plus summons, they'd rather just be kicking ass and blowing shit up personally.

>separate paragraphs for different subjects
>Baldur's Gate can do thing

>But FFXII can't

>Baldur's Gate can do this too

>And FFXII can't yet again
I'd say you took the paragraphs too far, some of them could easily go together.

the last 3 lines are a real eye sore

>lastly, ...

>continuation of same point

>further continuation of same point

Reddit ruined formatting by being retarded with their own. Shame it's a useful resource due to data persistence.

Reddit spacing, did not read.

>what is ATB?

ATB is a system that functions on turns. It only differs from normal turn-based games in that the turns do not pause the turn order, i.e. while you're thinking on what to do on your turn, the enemy can get their turn and attack you.

FFXII is fully real-time. For instance, at any time you can decide to move away from the enemy. Actions can play out simultaneously. This can NEVER happen in an ATB game, because actions are split into discrete turns.

>b-b-but muh ATB gauge
Literally every real-time game has actions on an invisible timer that add some delay before you can use the same action. This is not unique to FFXII.

Does the Switch version add a pause withing battles? Does the Ps4 version not have that as well?

There's always been a setting for Wait/Active. Wait will pause while you choose an action, Active will not.

I got this game when it was released for the ps4. But I never played it much (just like when it was released on the ps2) and I did not know that.

>This can NEVER happen in an ATB game, because actions are split into discrete turns.
X-2 and the XIII games all allow actions to play out simultaneously, and you'd have to be absolutely retarded to claim that those aren't ATB. XII's gameplay is effectively the same as X-2's but with free movement and no distinction between field screens and battle screens. It's actually RTwP that it bares only superficial similarities to, as it's far closer to the ATB system in every way that matters. XII also allows you to set the gameplay to Active mode (just like every ATB FF game that came before it) that removes the ability to pause while selecting your actions, so it literally isn't "real time with pause" in that case.

>XII also allows you to set the gameplay to Active mode (just like every ATB FF game that came before it) that removes the ability to pause while selecting your actions, so it literally isn't "real time with pause" in that case.
You do realize RTwP games can also be played without pausing, right? That makes it MORE similar to RtwP, not less.

>X-2
This is false. X-2 actions do not play out simultaneously. X-2's system is the smoothest and fastest-paced ATB by far, so that it might appear that's the case, but it's not.

Also, it has no movement, unlike RtWp, whereas XII does.

>XIII
Yes, this one has actions play out simultaneously. But it was released AFTER FFXII, so that only supports my argument. The definition of ATB doesn't retroactively change because of the existence oF FFXIII. It would be more accurate to say that FFXIII is an action-RPG, where actions typically play out simultaneously.

>RTwP games can also be played without pausing
Being able to be played without pausing is not the same as literally removing the option to pause. XII in Wait mode can be played without pausing, but is still "RTwP" in a literal sense. XII in Active mode is fully real-time with no pausing. Both are equally valid ways to play the game, so it can't be considered a fully RTwP system.

>This is false. X-2 actions do not play out simultaneously.
You are literally, factually wrong. If I mash the attack command for all three characters, they will all run up and attack the enemy simultaneously, before the others have finished attacking. If I have Yuna use Trigger Happy, I can tell Rikku to attack while Yuna is still firing at the enemy, and Rikku will go through her entire attack process while Yuna's action is still going. The game even incentivizes you to do this with the chain system, which increases the amount of damage you deal if you strike the enemy with multiple attacks at once

>Also, it has no movement, unlike RtWp, whereas XII does.
Yes, which is why I specified that XII's combat is essentially the same as X-2's but with free range movement added. However the movement in XII is mostly meaningless, it only exists because the game doesn't transition into a separate battle screen and serves very little tactical function. In fact the only real benefit to being able to freely move in XII's combat is to separate characters to minimize AoE damage, and to keep the enemy facing a single character should they use a breath attack, which only strikes characters in a cone in front of the enemy. As it would happen, X-2 also features enemies with conical breath attacks that can be avoided by standing behind/to the side of the enemy, so the addition of movement to take advantage of that seems like a pretty natural evolution to me

>F12 switch is 576p in handheld
>docked is 864p
This is ridiculous.
Source: youtu.be/r9IGpIehFmQ

Attached: 1554782118383.png (226x212, 88K)

XII's could've potentially had all the things you listed. Unfortunately with the development getting fucked the way it did, the battle system was the one to suffer the most. It really does feel like a Crpg in some ways. I just wish it were more complex.

>576p
fucking kek

>This can NEVER happen in an ATB game,

Technically it can. VIII came pretty close to letting everyone attack simultaneously if turn orders lined up properly. FFXII is a realization of that in a manner of speaking.

I've been having fun with the Switch version.
My main issues are:
There is still not a gambit for
>steal until successful
I think I should be able to use the right stick to navigate the battle menu. Doing so would make Active far nicer to control

The battle system is a little cumbersome. I keep trying move out of the enemies' physical range only to remember that it is not an ARPG

Finally reclassing shouldn't reset all licenses and gambits. Respeccing and reclassing should have been seperate options.

Does anyone have advice on jobs?
I'm not looking for gamebreaking stuff atm.
Using an Uhlan, but not feeling it.
want to use
Archer/ Red Mage
Black Mage/ Monk

>There is still not a gambit for
>>steal until successful

Supposedly they were gonna add sub-conditions like that but thought it would make everything unwieldy.

>I keep trying move out of the enemies' physical range only to remember that it is not an ARPG

This annoyed me too. I wish range and positioning were more key to battles.

I think White Mage/Monk is what a lot of people do.

It's interesting to mess with the gambit system, but frustrating when I doesn't work the way you want.

Sounds fine but a little redundant.
Is machinist the worst class? I gave it to Balthier bc is seemed canon, even though I planned on changing it eventually.

White Mage/Monk is a little redundant because Monk already gets some decent white magic anyways. Personally I'd rather pair Monk with Red or Black Mage, which gives you a much more flexible character overall that doesn't sacrifice any functionality. Also, Red and Black Mage both also get access to heavy armor, which can make the monk a solid damage dealer too

It's Black Mage/Monk and White Mage/Bushido

>Is machinist the worst class?

Its generally agreed to be since they rely heavily on guns, which while they ignore enemy defense, there's very few guns in the game and they fall off damage-wise around mid-game. They get some nice buffs though, which is why some people use it to accompany a mage class.

Also a couple of questions:
Attack animation times are mostly just autism right? I mean there are slower weapons, but Fran's extra frames on bow attack doesn't significantly change the game.

Also people compare base stats and say that some characters are shit. But the final stats are all really close and like 72 vs 78.
Do the extra 6 points really make that much difference? What's the calculation for stuff like that. I mean obviously use Basch for Phys and Penelo for Mgc but everyone seems like they could do a good job on everything.

Machinist/White Mage is pretty solid. Light armor and a ranged weapon is a good way to keep your healer alive and it lets the healer get some reliable damage in during moments while the party doesn't need healing

All that stuff is basically autistic nitpicking. You could class everyone as White Mages and still make it through the game. It might take a little longer, but its entirely feasible.

I noticed that they get decent buffs. To Hp and Lores. So they can buff magic users? How well could they support more physically oriented jobs?

Holy shit, you're the guy who said this about Xenoblade. I know this because I'm the guy who made the thread AND the reply you posted this to.

>How well could they support more physically oriented jobs?

Kinda pointless since they can support themselves well enough.

>/l/it
Lurk moar faggot

Yea Forums, Reddit.

You could totally make Basch a mage and Penelo a physical attacker if you want. Lores and armor bonuses are more than enough for any character to hit 99 in either strength or magic. In fact, some would argue that it's actually better to do it this way, because then you'd have Basch as a mage with naturally high strength in addition to maxed out magic (and vice versa for Penelo as a physical fighter), which makes your team stronger overall. It does assume you're going to really high levels though, which not everyone will do.

>play game
>not a copy of other game
>must be shit then

You're arguments just sound biased, not like actual flaws of the game. XII is in no way a perfect game, but the combat is pretty great for essentially being an offline MMORPG

Attached: 1550802773012.png (643x820, 751K)

That's an interesting take. I'll mess around at the endgame.
I wish the characters had small costume changes depending on the job, or level and style of armor.
When are we going to get playable Ivalice races outside of Tactics games and mmos. Surely there is spinoff potential, if not for the Ivalice Universe, at least the fantasy races.

Ivalice as a proper setting is dead at this point. You'd think the increased interest from XIV would give Square-Enix a hint, but alas. Won't stop them from re-releasing XII a dozen times though.

FFXII was an automated game though.
>pausing after the first 5 hours of cutscenes
I bet you're the same people who don't know how the junction system works

FFXII is just ATB without transitioning into a battle screen OP. In fact I'm pretty sure that was one of the selling points they tried to market before it came out on PS2.

It was "Active Battle Dimension" instead of ATB, but yea pretty much.

They've done that a lot though throughout FF, make minor modifications to ATB and throw out a new name for it.

this thread is the rare occasion where the first post actually is the best post

Square's executives literally do not learn, ever. Even hoping any sort of monetary trend would make them start thinking is a fool's game.

>Lose all of your managing/directing talent from meddling with their shit too much, not giving them proper information and blaming them for problems you caused.
>Focus on making each entry in your hit series into its own brand when it has failed all but one time, and the one non-failure was a lukewarm success.
>Continually upheave your biggest brand with every single entry and make traditional games as spinoffs instead of iterating on what works and testing new things in spinoffs (aka how the company operated when it was successful), act confused when traditional games sell above expectations and experiments flop.
>Castrate all non-FF brands instead of using FF to take in cash while other properties build good will/company value.
>Announce games before you're even sure the engine will work for the project or what your design doc looks like.
>Let projects languish in aimless development hell for years instead of putting your foot down and establishing the goals, taking inadequate workers off the project, or just out right cancelling and trying something else.
>Funnel money from profitable ventures into your supposed money maker instead of anywhere else.
Half of their directors/writers/artists left the company and work for them freelance because they're so sick of Square's shit. FF7R is the fourth consecutive time they've wasted tons of money on a big Final Fantasy after years of aimless development. FFXIV is going right back to 1.0 levels of corporate apathy because they "fixed" it so fuck bothering.

XIII and XV would be far better games and cost less to develop if their gimmicks were just [ABD without pausing and built around class switching] and [13's ABD, but it takes the Z-axis into account and weapons have real time mechanics instead of auto attack]. Almost like a series should, like... fix what works instead of throwing everything out. Crazy, I know.