Remind me why he was a villain again?

Remind me why he was a villain again?

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Because we're about to have Armstrong vs Hunk for the umpteenth time.

Because he was a stupid hypocrite who lived exactly none of what he preached, and got his heart ripped out by a guy who did.

dumb jrpg villain, "i'll destroy the world to save it" except "the world" is changed to "america", he's fine for the game he's in but retards all project their retard shit onto him

Remind me why you think you would survive in his ideal world, and what you would fight for.

Hes a foil of the protagonist.
Both base their ideology around the crushing the weak or protecting the weak. But Armstrong doesn't define the "weak". Raiden made it his goal to protect the "weak". Whether the "weak" are the ill, destitute, elderly, Raiden's philosophy falls directly at odds with Armstrong.
He carved his own path, he followed his wrath. Armstrong believes in this idea of a world where people fight for their own
freedom. However, he's in a position where he'd be at the top of the echelon for this ideal world. Therefore it's primarily an ideal world where he molds it for himself. Think of how those who believe in communism see themselves as the elite, without regard for whether others will be as fortunate.
In my opinion, the world of Metal Gear makes his ideas dangerous to implement because strength is based entirely on technological superiority, which can be suppressed and monetized in a way that won't let people raise their current situation.
God I love MGR threads.

MGR really needed to have Raiden make his own speech showing exactly why Armstrong was full of shit. Point out how, contrary to what Armstrong seems to think, the two of them are absolutely nothing alike. Call out how Armstrong lived a cushy life growing up while Raiden was literally fighting in wars and eating dirt to survive in poor African shitholes. Point out how Armstrong's had everything handed to him on a silver platter while Raiden's been fucked around literally his entire life. Mention how Armstrong owns and/or funds multiple multi-trillion dollar companies to personally give him the best weapons of war in the world today while Raiden legally does not even own his own body and only gets what his corporate masters bestow upon him. Raiden has lived, bled, fought, and watched people die in Armstrong's world and doesn't want that for anyone else ever again, while Armstrong has had the benefit of every luxury the western world has to offer and only wants to kick over the ladder so nobody else can do the same again.

Post limit fucked me, so I'll continue.
In the Metal Gear world, only the elite, wealthy, and governments have access to advanced weaponry. Unless Armstrong allowed for people to obtain technology needed to fight for your own freedom, it will remain in the hands of those already at the top.
Like I said, he's a foil. Raised in a cushy ivy league life, Armstrong wants to burn America down to the ground and plant new seeds from the ashes.
Raiden was born from a life of chaos and is now locked in the current world which, for all intents and purposes, is stable compared to his old life.
The two basically collide at opposite ends and both don't want to end up in the other's situation.
The most Raiden had was slight refutations to his speech. Though Raiden isn't the type to give long speeches or talk much really.

I just want to eat people and I feel like it'd be a lot easier to get away with it in Armstrong's America

In reality, you're more likely to be eaten.

something something VR poor kids brains

That's alright too, I have a fetish for that sort of thing

Collective Consciousness > It Has To Be This Way > Red Sun > Stains of Time > A Soul Can't Be Cut > Rules of Nature > A Stranger I Remain

They basically do have this exchange, just in much fewer words.

>What do you know about "the weak"? You weren't born poor. You've never been hungry. You don't know what it's like to fight, and steal, and kill just to survive!
>But you did survive! Through sheer force of will, following your own set of rules! With your own two hands, you took back your life!

Why did Armstrong want the murder machine kids if his objective was his cultural reset of the USA? The war with Pakistan was just a front to get him elected, what were they even for?

>"I'm doing the thing I'm condemning in order to stop the thing I'm condemning!"
>"And then I'll cause a bunch of people to die or something."

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Red Sun > It Has To Be This Way > A Stranger I Remain > Rules of Nature > A Soul Can't be Cut > Stains of Time > Collective Consciousness
I forget Raiden's backstory, but it was definitely absolute luck that Raiden survived
The war was meant to bolster a demand for weapons and soldiers, which he'd sell murder machine kids to fund his cultural reset.
He was using war as a business (start a war, raise money through weapon sales) to end war as a business (this part I'm not too sure how to explain, something along the lines of using weapon sales money to start an uprising to "restart america")

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Armtrong's plan is way too vague to get behind. Men have never been "free to fight their own wars." Is he proposing anarchy where random strongmen can just do whatever they want?

>Ignoring Sam's theme
Cringe

No matter how you try and spin it, he still is planning a war to rip the nation apart and his plan started with him kidnapping children and harvesting their brains in order to turn them into brainwashed killing machines.

As honest as Armstrong is with himself, he still has a layer of hypocrisy to his ideals, and he even partially admits to it. He wants to justify his "end war as a business" circular logic in order to become the leader of a new global establishment, continuing the chaos with a slightly different coat of paint. He just wanted to be the boss of the strongest child-brain robosoldier army while everyone under him killed themselves off.
His batshit insane hypocrisy is the final source of Raiden's epiphany to stop being a hypocrite himself.

Raiden had already stopped being a hypocrite in regards to enjoying killing, but he still held on to rationalizing some things as being done for a vague "greater cause." His fight with Sam and Armstrong had Raiden stop pretending he's doing things under the guise of "justice" and is really doing it because fuck that guy. That layer of hypocrisy that Armstrong has makes his dying words nebulous in their accuracy. Raiden isn't like Armstrong beyond enjoying fighting.

After the events of the game, Raiden is 1000% sound of mind and has completely come to terms with his past as a child soldier who loves killing dudes. As crazy as it sounds, Raiden is now making his decisions with absolute clarity. His motivations are strictly to himself and his family, building a better future that is safe for his wife and kid. To do that, he takes his jobs because he wants to fuck up anyone who is starting shit and disturbing the peace.

They really gloss over how nightmarish that technology is. Anybody sane would immediately commit suicide if they learned "fate worse than death" tech existed.

Yes. Somehow the idea is that everyone will be strong enough to do anything they want
Fuck I knew one was missing
The Hot Wind Is Blowing goes between A Stranger I Remain and Rules of Nature
The Only Thing I Know For Real goes between It Has To Be This Way and A Stranger I Remain
I'm not defending him, its a ridiculous plot that's morally reprehensible.
Wasn't that Sam's motivation too? I think he worked as a merc to stop corrupt people

Yeah, it's chilling stuff.

>fate worse than death
>Being so hooked into VR you can actually feel it and not die
>implying that wouldnt be awesome

The codec calls with Dok go into a bit more detail. While he tries his best to make it comfortable they’re all stuck in a virtual prison until they can find replacement bodies which are already in short supply.

because he's insane and if you don't fall for the surface-level "hey strong america sounds great" brainlet-appealing bullshit then you'll realize his maxim of strength is completely self-serving (being a physically powerful man before the nanomachines and a demigod after) and the logical conclusion is he wants to be the king of america by right of might

he didn't live anything he preaches, he didn't even see combat in the navy, the fact that he wants the kind of dystopian life raiden actually had to live through is just masturbating to his own dreams and delusions

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because he looks like Francois Hollande

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BUT NOW...NOW I’M NOT SO SURE

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He wanted to thin out the herd.

Because he was making an omelet.

Armstrong and Raiden both share the libertarian belief to stop the status quo of profiting from war but Armstrong is more of a hypocrite since he wants to "use war as a business to get elected so I can end war as as a business". He's a great character though since we can agree with him on most of what he says.

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Because no matter how sound the foxes logic is; he can never convince the rabbit to hop into his mouth willingly.

All things want to live DESPITE logic.
this is why violence is inevitable

he wanted to end prostitution and organized sex rings like pornography so people like mercenaries could have a wife and kids, basically

Because of the child kidnapping.
Could he not think of any other way to not use children for his master plan?

>Independence is vague
are you by any chance british?

I CARVED MY OWN PATH

Why was MGR more of a MGS game than the Phantom Pain?

Don't tread on me and fuck roads

Because the developers and writers honestly cared.

Being in a simulation like that would be far superior to existing outside, especially if you could control it. All they had to do was set up a vrchat and some fun games rather than pleasure center stimulation every time they kill someone and they'd be perfectly happy.

He's not wrong about it being vague. Nothing specific is said and he's pretty staunch about being in control so everyone would be free to do what they wanted to do, provided Armstrong allowed it.

>Raised in a cushy ivy league life,
Try University of Texas

Fine but it's not like he played any sports or anything

probably had something to do with all those children's brains he removed

A STRANGER I REMAAAAAIN

He played college ball ya’know?