What's the biggest vidya Mary Sue?

Why did he not just get rich continuing to make and sell inflation porn commissions?

At least choose superman for your retarded """joke"""
Batman is nowhere near perfect

He also spend decades straight training himself didn't just get random powers out of nowhere.

There aren't that many self-inserts in video games in general. I am a Mary-Sue purist so I only consider character a Mary-Sue if they actually ARE a self-insert for the creator.

It's not a Gary Stu if he's portrayed from the start as a Gary Stu.
Gary Stu is Jon snow, portrayed to be just your average normal dude, but then actually always being morally superior and overcoming every problem.

>Batman
>a Mary Sue
I don’t think so, sweaty

The biggest in recent memory is Kazuma Kiryu, who stands out mostly because he's still a pretty good character despite being perfect in every way. Yakuza isn't really even about Kiryu anyway, he's just a mirror designed to reflect other characters and show their flaws and virtues when confronted with a guy whose basically a paragon of justice and masculinity.

Why are all online comics not funny

Yes he is, just because he doesn't have powers doesn't mean he's a realistic character.

>i dont know what Mary Sue means

I like how there's an implication that Joker is somehow difficult to beat from a purely practical standpoint or that Batman couldn't just straight up murder Joker if he wanted to.

Doesn't Kiryu's obsession with honor fuck some people over and himself as well at quite a few points? He is a ridiculously over the top near-perfect male, though.

Movie Batman is even more of a flawed character than the comic ones. Comic Batman still gets to be the world's wealthiest/smartest/handsomest man while also being one of it's greatest martial artists in spite of his flaws. Movie Batman is some rich schmuck who regularly gets his assed kicked and his money stolen/reputation ruined.

Because they have to publish their comics online. If they were funny or otherwise talented they'd have a publishing deal. (This includes people that started with webcomics but got book deals later, I'm talking about people that never make money of their webcomics. Like dobson.)

Stardust the Super Wizard would fit this more, but I doubt Dobson would even know of him.

First off, the male equivalent is called a gary stu. Second, Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered, and his sanity is questioned often in comics. Not to mention he trains non-stop. Mary sues are naturally gifted and overcome no obstacles. Male feminists need to be gassed.

Even when he tries to be controversial for clicks this man still fails in all respects.
Impressive.

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>But batman never completely defeats the joker

Tell that to Heath Ledger's gravestone.

Its a bad joke

>not even superman
outing himself as never having read comics, or hell even watching movies based on comics. even trash like BvS highlights that at his core batman is a manchild coping with trauma by dressing up as a bat and playing a game of catch and release that intends on keeping up until he dies. whether or not that's a good thing, or if he should stop being batman or if he is a mary sue depends on the writer.

Also the original mary sue was a woman because of course she was. I mean come on.

>Jon Snow
Yeah, a dude who's been an outcast since birth, murdered and had his love die is someone who has never had any obstacles to overcome. GoT is trash btw, but there are better examples.

Isn't batman a narcissistic holier than thou misanthrope?

>batman defense force

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No

>A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero.
Batman is a Mary Sue depending on the writter.

Yeah, but that's never shown as being HIS fault. It's more like "Poor Kiryu, he's just such an honest and honorable person. If only the rest of the world could live up to his example instead of trying to drag him down".
It's like holding Goku's naivete against him. Sure it's dumb but it's not really a character flaw to regularly expect the best from people when you tend to treat them that way in kind.

Seconded. When the director made a point to give her the ability to do more damage than any other FF character just because he wanted his precious to be Da Best, you could tell she and the game were going to be disasters.
Rose from Tales is runner-up. Arguably a worse case, but had the benefit of swift and brutal backlash limiting the damage to one awful game.

he should have just stuck with making his gimmick porn

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Thank you for the clarification, I only have a secondhand knowledge of the Yakuza series.

But Batman's entire thing is he trained more and has more experience than anyone.

>b-but there are also male super powered characters !!
Batman is an enjoyable character , your average Mary Sue isn't. I hope the blue autistic bear understands that.

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Batman isn't perfect though.

He can't run his company well without Alfred, has anger issues and sucks at romance.

Not to mention he doesn't have any superpowers.

A better example of a Mary Sue would be Goku.

That picture has way too much resolution and holy fuck the dude's trace is awful. Get a better fucking brush!

easy Bait.

WII GAME

He also regularly alienates his allies like Nightwing, Robin and Batgirl, as well as the Justice League. He gets called out/punked out by other members of the League on a pretty regular basis.

>A better example of a Mary Sue would be Goku.
except the entire series is dedicated to showing Goku training to become stronger and is constantly beaten by foes

Master chief. Muh luck saves me from everything!

But she fucks up her relationship with her sister in the first game because she's a cunt to both her and Snow
tbf her hitting Snow is 10/10 and I haven't played XIII-2 nor LR so I don't knlw if she becomes a Mary Sue later on

Goku literally has brain damage
Flat character arc != Mary Sue and the same applies to Bats

What the fuck are you talking about

>Batman
>Mary-sue
I keep thinking i can't hate dobson any more and he keeps proving me wrong.

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It is almost as if he bases his entire business on idiots like you being angry at him.

Imagine being at computers.

Mary Sue debates tend to be silly but it’s worth pointing out that something bad happening to someone doesn’t make them not a Mary Sue especially if they were blameless. Tragic backstories are very common.

Being unrealistic ≠ being perfect. A perfect character wouldn't get their back snapped in two

One constant major flaw of Batman either way is that his principles of keeping villains alive as best as he can is selfish and short sighted, with his reasoning of "the courts and systems need to do their work" being predicated on a flimsy just-world fallacy.

Oh and his love of inflicting his crazy ass vigilante lifestyle on similarly troubled youth instead of being a proper guardian figure and giving them the better, far less traumatic lives that a parent should give them.

The only concretely Mary Sueish thing I can concede is that it's bullshit how he can hide his name from the hundreds of millions (if not outright billions) he invests in Bat shaped weapons, borderline futuristic gadgets, and self-branded cans of shark repellent.

Yeah, but doesn’t mean he gets to absolutely know everything that he shouldn’t, battle on equal footing with the likes of Superman, and immediately solve any problem without thinking.
When Batman doesn’t know something and isn’t fighting Darksied with just his martial arts, is when he isn’t a Marty Stu. He just trains in Martial Arts and detective work, not becoming God with cool gadgets.

>Tragic backstories are very common.
that isn't why batman isn't a Mary Sue. He spent decades training, learning, and building tech in order to be a master stealth boy. If he were a Mary Sue he would've woken up one day and been able to do all of that without any preparation

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As of recent, Ciri and Aloy.

IMAGINE BEING AT COMPUTERS

Having to overcome adversity doesn't really make him not a Mary Sue. The whole universe still revolves around him and he's still the lynchpin of every major conflict, to the detetrement of every character around him. Nobody can ever be more than a satellite to Goku's star, and regardless of how strong his opponent may be they will eventually lose to him because the whole show is about Goku surpassing his limits and expectations. I don't think he's a bad character necessarily, he's just an overly simple one. Closer to a mythological hero like Hercules than a real modern "character".

Mary Sues can have justification for their skills. This is all pointless because none of these characters are author self-inserts.

>those top comments

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>my perfect character has ISSUES ok
Sure. He cuts himself and listens to My Chemical Romance. That doesn't change the fact that he's superhumanly good at everything he puts his mind to.
I bet he could have human relationships with enough prep time.

>2B
>gets fucking impaled 1/4 way through the game and is FUCKING DEAD
>9S
>goes from being hyper-competent to a gibbering, screaming mess of psychological contradictions that only yearns for the endorphic high of killing that has been programmed into him at the same emotional feedback level as fucking, so he yearns to show his affection for 2B by desiring to kill her near the end of the game, conflating it with the more straightforward desire to kill A2, thus blurring his ability to think rationally before pitifully, painfully, and pathetically writing on the floor in a pool of his own blood after being impaled himself, struggling in fear and rage the entire time until he unceremoniously expires on top of a tower that signifies the failure to protect humanity, or even the vestiges of its own decency
Do you even play Yoko Taro games?

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Is it true that the guy who blasted him was Shadman?

Batman didn't beat him
the society we live in did

>game only fags think their opinion is worth anything

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>dobson defence force

That’s not entirely true. Batman has done some stuff he could not possibly train for, and there is more to being a Mary Sue than just Powerlevel faggotry.

They also have to be virtuous for no reason, have aimless motives, being “special” in some other way (like being trans), and more.
While Batman doesn’t have these other traits, and most of his training and experience justfies his intelligence/combat, he will sometimes do things he shouldn’t possibly be able to do.
This is why it really depends on the writter and the era.

>Closer to a mythological hero like Hercules than a real modern "character".
right, that doesn't make him a Mary Sue then. He's just a simple archetype hero character. There's a big difference.
In Dragon Ball, I would say Android 17 is a Mary Sue because he strong because he is strong. That's it.

I think people need to learn the difference between a plot device and a mary sue

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Not that guy, but being dead doesn't disqualify someone from a Mary Sue/Gary Stu status. 2B is an atrociously bad character and she's pretty much just a more wooden Lightning.

This is the problem when it comes to people understanding Batman. Batman doesn't already know how to beat the enemy when he first meets them. They always have them get the best of Batman first and then using his detective work defeats his enemy by finding the weak points to exploit.

>He also spend decades straight training himself didn't just get random powers out of nowhere.
This is irrelevant to being a Mary Sue--training is trivial to write into someone's backstory without actually having any complexity to the character.

Batman isn't that much of a Mary Sue though, imo, because he isn't universally loved in his world.

Even /d/ doesn't want his shit.

You know it to be true.

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>In Dragon Ball, I would say Android 17 is a Mary Sue because he strong because he is strong. That's it.

Being strong is not what a Mary Sue is

The comics tend to waver a bit on if Batman's crusade is justified or not based on who is writing it. On one hand like you said, he's pretty selfish and self-destructive, but on the other he lives in a world of high adventure where his heroics are necessary. It's hard to imagine a world that NEEDS super heroes because we don't live in a world that has real super villains. Plus I think a reconstructionist view of Batman's "catch and release" strategy can be taken as charitably saying that he really does believe the system works, in regards to justice and reforming criminals/helping the mentally ill. Evidence may be against him but I won't take someone to task for refusing to be judge jury AND executioner. Plus, as I said before he lives in a world where the laws of narrative force his work to be undone regardless of what he does. IRL Joker would be long dead by now, either from a death sentence or from the numerous beatings and mishaps he's taken. But he lives in a world where people can walk off broken bones and manslaughter charges in a few months, so what can you do? Just keep foiling plots, breaking arms, and hoping that some day they will learn their lesson.

Not him, but Goku...
>Is stuppidly powerful
>Can just get more power if he’s loosing
>Entire motivation is that he wants to be more powerful than whoever happens to show up at the time
>Never questions his own actions. Nobody ever questions o reprimands Goku (except for the wife, and that’s for the lulsies)
>Is retarded except when he’s fighting. Then he’s not
>His friends are mostly worthless and only good at supporting Goku, which they are never allowed to surpass.
>Stole his own son’s thunder after the cell saga

And yet, I’d say Goku is NOT a Mary Sue. Mary Sue’s are self inserts for the author, and I really doubt that’s the case for Toriyama.

Goku feels more like he was meant to be the audience’s self insert, or even better, a representation of a father figure strong and benevolent that the kids watching the show can admire.

Really, he skirts the line between mary sue and not.

>battle on equal footing with the likes of Superman, and immediately solve any problem without thinking.
This literally never happens though. The only reason he can "beat" Superman ever is because Superman doesn't actually want to kill him but Batman forces him into situations where he'd have to to win.

I hate this idiot's art so much

look, I love the game, but truth needs to be said

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Speaking of FF, pic related is much worse.
>special snowflake magic user
>esteemed general at 18
>sings better than professional opera singers
>everybody thinks she's incredibly beautiful
>"soul as pure as freshly fallen snow" even though she was presumably commiting war crimes along with the rest of the Empire
>never does anything wrong
>her love interest falls in love with her without them ever having a proper conversation
She makes Lightning look like a great character.

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No, but that’s his entire character.

2B can't be Lightning, because 2B has an actual ass.

>ever taking the opinions of a man who said "Cupman" was a bad game because it requires you to memorize enemy attack patterns as many video games have done since their creation and and will continued to do so because pattern recognition is a trait all humans have.

its okay considering the rest of the shit that emerges from deviantart. should have worked on honing his artistic ability instead of being an embarrassing cartoonist

Is Mario a mary sue?

Considering non-vidya is being discussed, I'm surprised this dumb whore hasn't been mentioned yet.

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youtube comment section is like walking on a minefield with mines taped to your shoes, but the top comments here are really something

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>Gets chained up and raped for weeks

being tragic or dead doesnt disqualify on being a mary sue

No

That's not a character flaw. Breaking your Mary Sues legs doesn't make them less of a Mary Sue.

batman is practically the least perfect superhero ever, why is this guy such a faggot?

That's like asking if Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny are Mary Sues. There just isn't enough plot surrounding them to say they have that level of influence on the world around them.

Mickey and Bugs are though

Nobody read that garbage, Mateusz.

Unironically Geralt.

This fucking guy has practically all textbook mary sue traits

>white hair
>outcast but somehow people like him when its neccessary for the plot
>super badass
>uses two swords
>does flippy shit and kills entire groups of soldiers by himself
>has a set of one liners (heh...nothing personel)
>he doesn't use conventional magic but has his own super sikirt magical powers
>every girl wants his dick

You can go on and on about this gay. Seriously, his entire character feel like some deviantart OC.

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>a kid who watched his parents die and went insane from the trauma to the point he dresses up like a bat and beats people into unconsciousness is a Mary sue

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never played nier and probably never will

shit game that was marketed as
>dude butts loool even the guy who made the game supports these butts lol this is based!!!

yikes.

Biggest Mary Sue is Superman, not Batman.
>literally stronger than everyone, can't be hurt, has a bajillion super powers that rival every other superhero
Batman never beats Joker.
Joker always escapes and kills again and fucks up everything.
Why is Dobfaggot such a retard?

SO FAT YOU LOOK AND SEE FOOD
desu I also often look and see food

Yeah but isn’t it implied the Empire created and used her?

Ciri is even worse since she didn't even fully complete her training and is hyper competent because reasons despite having no real experience she outclasses every real witcher.

main characters from sjw movies are a whole new level of mary sueness, take any character from any marvel movies for example

>he doesn't have any superpowers is a flaw
lmao

goku isn't a mary sue because he does have flaws, ie being legitimately stupid and naive
batman's worst traits are still far superior to the average person

Shitting on his comics is funny but that was just stupid.

Honestly a no-brainer. Not only does every single character in KotOR talk about how absolutely brilliant and amazing Revan was, but the plot twist reveals that this person they have been praising nonstop is in fact you, the player. He is a *literal* self insert invincible protagonist.

Anybody who claims Revan is their favorite character is a narcissist.

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Geralt is basically some 16 year old's D&D character. It's great.

Isn’t the whole point of Batman that he is fighting this crushing sadness and pain from losing his parents and growing up in this giant empty house as an anointed prince without any support?

How much of 70 IQ söyfag do you have to be to not see that?

>never played nier and probably never will
>shit game

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Because he just follows the memes about Batman's "preptime" and assumes that how Batman works.

Neither of you must have watched Goku grow up in the original Dragon Ball

INFLATE HIMSELF
LIKE A BALLOON

DOBSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

>Mary Sue
Dragonborn
>Gary Stu
Dragonborn

She got dethroned.

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The first batman comic explains how he reach peak human performans and great athletic feats and spend years mastering sciences and travelling the world

>you have to eat shit to know its not going to taste good

Yikes.

delete this what the fuck

Then you should judge Batman only from the Arkham games and ignore all the character building the different comics and books do. Ciri is OP in the game because she had 7 books to grow from a scared little girl to what you see in TWIII. I wouldn't say someone who gets her whole guild killed, is raped and nearly raped repeatedly and gets a huge ass facial scar on her cheek a Mary Sue

But Bats isn’t a sue at all, he has very real and very obvious flaws that have been done to death

Disgaea DD2 shit writting is no joke.

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>It's not a Gary Stu if he's portrayed from the start as a Gary Stu.
Not sure I agree with this. Couldn't you argue that Rey was portrayed as a Mary Sue from the start? That still doesn't make her an acceptable character.
Batman is probably the least Gary Stu of all the superheroes. Hell, the biggest Gary Stu I can think of isn't even a superhero, it's James Bond.

A Gary Stu doesn't get tortured in a dungeon for 6 months

>gets imprisoned by the obviously evil badguys
>suffers no real damage and remains just as pure, beautiful and irresistible even in the fucking prison
This is exactly why she's a Mary Sue.

Which has absolutely no negative effects on her. Everybody respects her, she suffers no side effects, and her background might as well not exist for all the difference it makes.

How the fuck can an actor always obsessed over their appearance allow their feet to fucking rot like this? It’s disgusting

You can't expect subtlety from Bioware. Even back when they weren't terrible they had the literary finesse of a toddler.

>Gary Stu
>Only wants to fight crime because of his lust for revenge, a negative trait
>This negative trait is the core reason Gotham is still crime-ridden as his morals are so warped that he won't even kill mass killers.

Yeah I guess you’re right, she does commit suicide if you fuck up in the WoR though.

>Batman
>Mentally unstable
>Anger issues
>Dresses up and goes out at night to beat the shit out of people
>Justifies his actions because they're criminals
>Doesn't kill peopel that actually deserve it so he can have the moral high ground, even at the expense of other people losing their lives
>Mary Sue
Yeah okay

Lots of Mary Sue Deviantart OCs have rape as a tragic backstory.

People much like the retarded comic op posted think that mary sue is just a person with special powers who is the center of attention. That is actually just called a 'special snowflake'. While Mary/Gary sues tend to be special snowflakes they are not mutually exclusive. Harry potter is a special snowflake but has to go through tons of turmoil, doubt, people hating or misleading him. Same with jon snow, hes is put into positions of power and brought back from the dead all the cost of constantly being shot, beat up, captured, betrayed by those close to him. ETC.

A true mary sue is unchallenged to the point that her achievements take away from the other characters and doesn't have any realistic or drawbacks effects because of it. Kirito isn't a mary sue just because he's top level and is the only person who can duel wield swords. Its because he's supposed to be a socially inept neet who somehow has every girl in love with him, know the dev code to the game , and hardly has to struggle with anything because a deus ex machina will show up to make him more powerful than his opposition. Mary sues are having your cake and eating it to. Like rey for starwars, its not that she is getting these random powers out of nowhere but the fact that she is doing so while making every other character incompetent while doing so. She has this power yet everyone treats her like the center of attention and the best thing since sliced bread. To the point that at the end of the movie they all line up so Rey can fly away with the millenuim falcon and the map to luke they just sacrificed billions of lives to get. And none of those people actually met her.

You can have special gifts and still suffer for it, but a mary sue doesn't suffer. They just have minor missteps that only lead to them gaining more power beyond the scope of a person's air of disbelief. Which is why they are viewed as self inserts, they never have to work at anything to really achieve it.

>>Stole his own son’s thunder after the cell saga
spotted the JobHan fag

But my Dragonborn was a skooma addict mess

What, where he was even more retarded and shut down the second he got hungry? But yes I'm referring mostly to Z.

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I don't know what games did to him, but in the books it was nowhere near that.
>sterile due to witcher training mutations
>chicks want to fuck him because he is an interesting freak, and all witchers are described to be fuck machines, not just him
>has to drink potions to deal with stronger monsters, and their effects make him look as bad as the monsters he fights
>unique witcher magic is just a couple of neat tricks that help in combat, but isn't anything close to what actual magic can do
>gets fucked up in every second story

>""food"" analogy

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white hair is not a mary sue trait

Batman doesn't refuse to kill villains because he's selfish and thinks the world should be just like that, he refuses to kill villains because most of them are extremely mentally ill or otherwise sympathetic. He keeps playing the cat and mouse game with the Joker because he believes that someday, maybe, the joker might be able to get the help he needs.

The fall doesn't kill her and once again, she suffers no lasting effects.

>The only concretely Mary Sueish thing I can concede is that it's bullshit how he can hide his name from the hundreds of millions (if not outright billions) he invests in Bat shaped weapons, borderline futuristic gadgets, and self-branded cans of shark repellent.

I'm not a regular reader but if I recall correctly some comics have justified this as "Bruce is friends with Batman" or something, and that he basically hides in plain sight.

Lots of Mary Sues have rape backstories
Not all raped characters are Mary Sues
There's the difference. Ciri fucks up time and time again in the books

food analogies work great, deal with it sperg

>tfw Doson said he was really sweaty here and that kind of refreshed him

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Mary Sue does not always mean super powerful.
Look at Disney’s Aladdin and Saitama.
Saitama:
>Initially starts his career so he can stop being a loser (and still is), later to being a hero for fun
>Absolutely beats his peers in sheer strength and output, but bombed his Hero test (even his own student did better)
>Literally trained so hard that he has no problem in any fight, making him become bored over the years
>Despite his achievents, all of them are not recognized by the public
>Is still a poorfag loser with hair issues and is a 5/10 in looks
Aladdin:
>Completely virtuous, giving his hard stolen bread to random children and freeing his genie friend
>Absolutely handsome and always smiling
>Preforms inpossible parkour as a side job instead of his real job
>Is only hated by guards and thieves
>Ends up being the princes and marrying Jasmine
>Was always a Chad and the only thing that changed was just changing his status

This cringe has to be some dobson meta bait shit right? Batman has decades of training and endless resources and yet he still actually cant truly stop a spindly mental ward case who isnt even trying to kill batman in most incarnations nowadays. Batman having to brutalize a mentally ill man is a moral loss already

He's still wanked in the sequel though.

He's right in a way, not about Batman, but every time I see someone calls a character a Mary Sue is because she's attractive. It has nothing to do with the character being perfect in any other way.

I wouldn't call wasting your good looks and fortune being a weepy autist who spends all his time in a fucking cave perfect. Batman is extremely low on the list of fun superheroes to be.

Spider-man?

>have literal millions of dollars
>can't go to a cheap chinese nail place for a pedicure

Batman is a garbage superhero.

Prove me wrong. You cannot.

Playing games with a guy who has gleefully killed hundreds or even thousands of people is psychotic and you know it. Batman only makes sense when he's written as a crazy psycho recluse.

Yes, but how that fatty handled it was even stupider. Based from the comments on that vide he went to cry on twitter that he was assaulted at the con

spider man is more of a Mary Sue than batman, that's for sure

>people thinking Superman is a mary sue
No

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Saitama also has a problem understanding what being a hero actually means to him, something that even King has better understanding of, and he often gives Saitama shit for that.

I like how the books don't make him out to be a badass, but essentially a mortal dude who is slightly above average due to his tools and such.
Witcher 3 specifically gives him self insert-esque powerlevels.

mary sues are not inherently bad, they're a symptom of shitty writing. You can make a flawless mary sue character and still have a great story as long as they have something to bounce off of, whether that be a setting or other characters.

I'm not that big into superhero movies, but why is that? The random powers he got when he got bitten?

>defeated the joker
the joker comes back time and time again
batman has never really defeated the joker once

>5/10 in looks
Depends on the look.

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this
plus mine gets raped by bandits every 30 minutes

>a literal demi-god sent to defeat the dragons
No shit.

Witchers aren't slightly above average, they are created solely to be superhuman monster killing machines, but of course they vary in strength. Some young witchers are said to die to very weak monsters or even simple bandits, because they try to act as heroes instead of being the calculating mercenaries they ought to be.

>prunus girl
Based and redpilled.

>if I don't like your analogy, it's invalid
Yikes.

That's because the tragic rape backstory is astoundingly plebeian. It's the lowest of low-hanging fruits.

Being a Designated Hero/Victor doesn't make you a Mary Sue, it just makes the story simplistic. I feel there is a lot of misconception about what a Mary Sue is.
A Mary Sue is not:
>Always the winner
>A special snowflake
>Loved by everyone
>Superior than others
>Has a tragic backstory
>The sole focus of their story
Etc. They can certainly be all those things, and many are, but they are not the defining characteristic of that type of character. The real way to spot one is the effect they have on the plot of the story. I think the Wheel of Time series illustrated the concept quite well with ta'veren. If you want to imagine all fictional stories taking place in real worlds, like ours. Immeasurably complex, everybody has their own long and complicated web of relationships and causality going back through history that all together shape the world around them. However, ta'veren are not bound by this. They are people unbound by any sort of fate or causality, people whom inevitably end up leaving huge impacts on the world as others are naturally drawn to either aiding or opposing them despite whatever goals or dreams they may have had unrelated to them. Events revolve around them, everything they do ends up being important. That is what a Mary Sue is. Organic relationships and narrative causality do not matter to a Mary Sue, because everything inevitably revolves around them. If life is a river then they are a whirlpool. They don't have to be "special" because the very nature of the story means they will BE special by the virtue of existing.

You fucking know he's packing a horse underneath his tights.

Why does Dobson's art always come off as greasy looking?

He's also prone to going all emo in the books, which all his friends make fun of.

>every time I see someone calls a character a Mary Sue is because she's attractive
You haven't been looking very hard then. Even if Mary Sue/Gary Stu's are often attractive, looks have nothing to do with what truly makes them a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Same with how powerful a character is.

Dragon's dogma
>Normal mode Arisen is a Chad who fucks up everything and is an immortal God among men
>Hard mode Arisen gets fucked up by regular bandits and gets fucked by a longsword stab to the gut; isn't even that good

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Cont. Being a Mary Sue doesn't necessarily make someone a bad character, if it's the kind of story that supports it. Forrest Gump is one. Geralt of Rivia is arguably one. Aloy is one and I still liked her. But I think the grand litmus test for this sort of character is "if I took them out of the story, would ANYTHING happen? Do the other characters have enough agency and motivations to actually accomplish things removed from the interest and authority of the main character?" If not, they are a Mary Sue.

The Joker is only an unredeemable mass murderer when he's written by someone who doesn't understand the ever fucking point of the Joker

Bugs is literally capable of anything and isn't bound by the laws of time and space.

hard mode gets easier later though

Not when hellhounds and grimgoblins exist

Didn't Geralt get cucked tho

Ok retard

yes it's called toonforce
next you'll say the roadrunner is a mary sue

Only when it's funny

You tell him, sis!

Forrest Gump is a literal retard with AIDS
I don't think he's a Mary Sue

What’s with webcomic writers and being absolutely fucking brain dead Reddit-tier wannabe geniuses? I can tell by his ugly as fuck self insert he’s a skinny fat onions boy with disgusting eye brows and poor hygiene, does he really think he’s so fucking smart he’s the first person to realize that there are male Mary Sues? I mean fucking hell you can read the Wikipedia page on Mary Sues as a trope and the very first fucking sentence points out Gary Stu as the male equivalent. This shit is so offensively stupid he ought to be whipped in the streets

>The sole focus of their story
Honestly this is pretty much the most integral part of being a Mary Sue. And it doesn't help that a lot of people can't differentiate between a protagonists' story draw vs a Mary Sue's.

>not Superman

based Shadman

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Why do some people take the feminine name so seriously?

>Mary Sue
Fancy way to say "character I don't like"
Exhibit A: this thread is literally just discussing the definition.

He borderline dies in even the trailer.

All these years later and I still can't figure out what Kiss from a Rose has do to with Batman

That's bullshit and you know it, the problem is that it's once again a term people ran into the ground.

Realism has nothing to do with Mary Sue-ness, nothing about Star Wars is realistic but Rey is one of the biggest Mary Sue’s Of all time

Batman is a goddamn mary sue with how much asspull "training" and "detective work" he can conjure up on the fly to counter god-like beings the writers should have let them be dealed by his actual metahuman teammates. Everyone just disagrees because its Dobson of all people that brought it up.

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Because Dobson needs to complain about something, damn the legitimacy

Roadrunner just runs fast and isn't seen being able to turn into anyone, know anything and be able to do anything at a whim.

You're new as fuck and it's clear as day

Nobody disputes that Batman is a Gary Stu though. What's his point? Where does he think the "Batman with prep time stomps" meme comes from?

I did tell him

because they want to turn people bitching about mary sue's into a sexism debate, completely ignoring that it's often used to refer to males as well (though occasionally in that instance it'll be changed to "gary stu," the argument is still the same.)

But Batman is flawed. He's insane, it's just focused on being a hero. He's so batshit nutty that he thinks and prepares for every outcome. Bruce Wayne is more the mask than the cowl. He's so flawed it circled back around and became something to help others. Saying he has plot armor is one thing but to think he isn't heavily flawed is stupid. Also
>Son of Dob

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I thought mary sues had to be fan OCs

You forgot when they revive him because we can, why not?

>Always the winner
I'd say this is pretty crucial to being a Mary Sue. Especially if they win despite having little to no experience prior. Rey is considered a Mary Sue largely for this reason alone, though being loved by everyone and the plot revolving around her certainly also applies.
I'd say being a winner and the plot swirling around them have to be married for one to qualify as a Mary Sue. Otherwise the plot can still revolve around a failure of a main character who is hated by those around them and blunders their way through everything they do, harming themselves and others in the process.

Not him but I can see where he's coming from :
>Be Peter Parker, uncool teenage work who does great at school but unpopular and shoved into lockers on the regular by local jocks
>Get bitten by radioactive spider
>Try to make money with new powers but your uncle dies because you've been a selfish fuck
>Still a loser but you get to be a super hero and have to choose between banging a smoking hot redhead, then a smoking hot blonde
> Said smoking hot blonde is killed by your worst enemy
> Now you have to chose between smoking hot redhead turned supermodel and smoking hot villainess in skintight leather

>The virgin hero for fun
>The Chad thief turned prince

Having bad things happen to you isn't a character flaw. Gump is a saint and basically deified by the movie and made into this locus for the spirit of American resilience and perseverance in the 60s and 70s.

roadrunner can do shit like run into a painting of a tunnel
you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

>get bitchslapped across the Yaruga by Cahirs strong backhand while his friends watch and laugh

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He can run through a tunnel that was literally just painted onto the side of a rock.

The guy who did the comic is trying too hard to get woke points, Gary stus(male Mary sues) do exist, but batman is not an example

Imagine being dobson
Just fucking imagine

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Every single time this thread is brought up it's nothing but discussing the definition of Mary Sue, and that's not just on Yea Forums of course.

Everyone is just slapping this name on a character that for them was "ideal" in a way or another and so they didn't like it, too bad it's a fictional world so that doesn't mean anything in first place.

Revival was established in like the 2nd book though

How is Batman perfect? He is a deranged manchildren with borderline fascist ideology and a closet gay to boot

Oh, yeah dumb videogame webcomic of the week... My bad

Fuck off back to tvtropes

hot

The term started with fanfiction but there's no reason you can't apply it to other stuff.

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Don't.
*Dork not work
Also Spider-Man isn't a Mary-sue however, since he fuck up regularly as a super hero and as Peter Parker, is insecure as fuck, went full edgelord during the 90s. and got fucked over by the universe God knows how many times

I'd rather not ruin my mediocre day

>just let me be ignorant in peace
ok bud

Why didn't anyone in the audience help him when he was clearly being assaulted against his will?

I liked HZD but aloy is 100% a Mary Sue

yeah but Kiryu somehow works because him being a super samurai type character fills a nice spot in the yakuza underworld

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Cringe

How fucking out of touch can Dobson become with literally EVERYTHING. Batman is not even near being a Mary Sue.

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I swear that if Dobson has an opinion about anything, the universe realigns itself to make his opinion wrong.

Alloy was specifically created to do what she did, so her status gets kind of murky. She also gets owned by Sylens repeatedly.

>Half the thread says Batman is a Mary Sue
>Half the thread says he isn't

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Okay

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Is Ciri a mary sue in the games? She sure wasn't in the books.

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Why is this guy always upset?

That's so cute.

Just because a lot of people misuse a term, intentionally or otherwise, doesn't mean that term can no longer be used properly.

He's a "male feminist" who can't get laid.

IMAGINE BEING SO FAT

Not true. Tony Stark is an alcoholic with a superiority complex and narcissistic issues. Hank Pym has a history of psychotic breaks. Batman dresses up like a bat and puts young boys in tights at night. Protagonists with flaws are what builds layers onto capeshit.

Define the proper usage.
Because "Mary Sue" was simply the author's idealized self-insert in some shitty fanfic.

>she was presumably commiting war crimes along with the rest of the Empire

Actually, she was very outspoken against Kefka's plan to poison Doma and wipe oit the kingdom.
I feel like most of the generals in the Empire were more or less at least trying not to commit heinous war crimes. After all, Empires expand by taking over areas and indoctrinating and conscripting the locals. You aren't really expanding your empire if you just exterminate every last human in a territory and claim the empty land.
Kefka was just a massive psychopath that lacked any kind of empathy.

>Is a better Witcher than every other Witcher
>Has bullshit magical powers
>Plot revolves around her only
>Everyone loves her
>The big bad cosplaying elves want her because she is so special
>Only she save the world
Yeah she is.

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>Food analogy
Are you a fly, a nigger? Do you consider shit food? Lmao

>inb4 "bUt hE dIeS aT dA eNd"

Despite being an emo that lack personality, he somehow is the best at everything and everything with a vagina wants to fuck him. He is basically the Jesus of Persona that dies for humanity's sins and the game isn't even subtle about it.

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yeah tru

nice, make more

That's normal. Batman has 80 years worth of material written by a million different people interpretated by millions of readers/spectators/players/whatever. That's several millions of different interpretations so to some people he's a Gary Stu and to others he isn't.

Don't trigger the fangirls user, they're fucking rabid

DC is more prone to that than Marvel. In DC heroes are actually heroes, most of them are beloved by in-universe masses. Marvel has tons of mutants and vigilantes who usually fuck up more than they save.

Superman fucking up a city while fighting Zod in Man of Steel was shocking to fanbase.
Avengers constantly fucking up to the point of government trying to regulate them is basically the plot.

he's just a chad, not a mary sue

Depends on who's writing him.

I don't get the number 2.

>Aladdin
>Handsome
a fucking monkey will never be handsome

you had to make him like that though. he was a loser at first.

Chad Thundercock from Persona 4 was even worse. He didnt even have to die AND managed to avoid looking like a dweeb.

>he somehow is the best at everything and everything with a vagina wants to fuck him.
To be fair you had to work to get him that way. He wasnt like that out of the box.

>Batman
>Mary Sue

Why is he so retarded? Batman has an ass load of flaws. In fact, his virtue is one of his biggest flaws.

You're right. 3 is inferior to 4 and 5 in every way, but they too have protagonist issues.

hard truth

You think Aladdin is Abus monkey?

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it's hilarious how Dobson thinks he knows what he's talking about.

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He's also a paranoid control freak who can't trust his allies and he pisses off his sidekicks so much that he must be on his third or fourth Robin by now.

Isn't he bad at basically everything at the beginning of the game and you have to literally develop his competence and personality throughout the entire game?
What the fuck are you on about?

Two-Face

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try flipping a coin

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He wanted to ride the wave of cynical edgy internet personalities where controversy and contrariansm makes you popular. One of the most bizarre comics he makes is one so irrelevant it doesn't get posted, but that's what makes it important to understand who he is:
It shows him about to talk about the latest Batman movie and a strawman squid pops up and says you can't talk about this without addressing the shooting. He sighs and rolls his eyes and defends his not talk about a tragedy as if these people's sensibilities are such a burden and that's the real issue. He created an issue where there is none to prove how superior he is to people in mourning.

>Is a better Witcher than every other Witcher
constantly gets the shit beat out of her. Also she's not a witcher, she never underwent the mutations
>Has bullshit magical powers
that she goes thru hell to try to grasp and control
>Plot revolves around her only
plot revolves around her womb and the kid she's supposed to give birth too and how everyone wants to get their hands on it.
>Everyone loves her
Geralt, Yen, and Triss do. Everyone else who likes her ends up dead by proxy of being near her and everyone else wants to rape her/kill her or both.
>The big bad cosplaying elves want her because she is so special
they don't give a shit about her, they even say it. They want their king to pinch his nose and fuck her so can fart a child out of her cunt then she can fuck right off back to licking rocks as a pretend witcher girl.
>Only she save the world
She doesn't save shit. That will eventually be her child in some book that'll never get written. She just fucks off to avalon leaving everything in the witcher universe worse for the wear.

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Witcher 3 did it, he was very grounded before that, almost every monster including drowners are a dangerous job for him and he usually almost dies, the only reason he doesn’t being the potions which he can only take because as a child he was mutilated and experimented on. In W3 though he’s a God

Kassandra/Alexios aren't any more mary sue than any other asscreed character.

Dobson is a moron and clearly doesn't know what that phrase means.

Here's the thing: we have no indication this particular Empire has ever been any better. Within the game, the Gestahlian Empire has no backstory, no history, and clearly saw nothing wrong with making an obviously insane clown its top general and genociding Espers, making any outrage over Doma seem rather perfunctory and long overdue, to put it mildly.

I've never played Witcher, I assume Geralt and Ciri are star crossed lovers right?

>Avengers constantly fucking up to the point of government trying to regulate them is basically the plot
In movie capeshit
Which is even lower than comics capeshit

In the comics some retards doing a youtube show tried to capture some villains and ended up fighting in front of an elementary school and killed a few hundred little kids.

Altaïr, Ezio, Edward and Arno fuck up constantly throughout their stroies

>I never read the books
Thanks for letting everyone know

and?

Father-figure/Mentor and adopted Daughter, respectively. Geralt and Yennefer got the whole "fated lovers" thing going on.

Are you autistic?

>Geralt, Yen, and Triss do.
In the books, Triss sells her out for a cushy job position. Basically, the only people who love her are her parents and maybe her dead girlfriend.

they do if it makes them cooler and has 0 repercussions

Are you autistic and also retarded?

The masked guy dropped a paper after spraying him, what was on it?

Triss regrets that later in the books and thinks of her like a little sister by the end.

Not really

Of course he doesn't know shit about anything. He's always trying to toot his own horn and virtue signal as soon as he smells drama related to his favourite fields (comics and vidya), and yet his knowledge on the matter is always so surface-level and weak that he's always wrong no matter what's discussed

It's a polish game though.

>Just reminded that Civil War happened because of fucking Speedball. Speedball!

I knew we were in for some shit but I was not prepared for what was to follow.

That part where she randomly assumed she had jedi powers to convince that guard to let her go was fucking terrible and I have no idea why people think it's amazing or a good character trait

Triss is a whore and I will never understand why she got such a big role in the games

that would tie into his point about the term being ran into the ground.

the original definition of a mary sue was just an author's self-insert in fanfiction. but of course due to most fanfiction writers being teenage girls without a proper understanding of narrative structure, all the other facets of what a mary sue is (and is argued about) emerged from that in varying degrees, as most of these writers just want to make a cool character that everybody likes without regard to actual storytelling.

>"fated lovers"
Geralt basically wished a genie to make them love each other to link their fates, otherwise said genie would shred Yen to pieces.

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Are you just posting completely random characters now? Kara is literally a representation of the thousands thoroughly average androids with no special skills or worth.

kek

Even if you don't level his stats he still becomes Jesus 2.0 and most of the girls in the game still want to fuck him for absolutely no reason at all.

Nah. Everyone else was still there.

Autism and retardation are the same you know that right?

I gotta ask user, which comic was that in? That sounds hysterical

>Hehe dumb kid, waste your life on Yea Forums like me, then you’ll be cool
When you hang yourself, god will smile

Hell, geralt almost died from some random villager poking him with a pitchfork

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It's his use of gradient colors

Because the first game was meant to be this weird blend of a Witcher sequel combined with a simulation-esque self insert role playing game. So Geralt's relationships all get reset to let the player decide what they want to do, and Yennefer and Ciri got left out entirely due to plot baggage.
By the second game they were more confident in just making the games a straight up sequel to the books so Geralt's amnesia gets treated way more seriously than it should have been and Triss ends up thotting her way into main girl status. Fortunately that got rectified in 3 but by then they knew game-onlys would be attached to Triss and decided to make her an option.

>character's who's main storyline is how much of a mess his life is and how he never really dealt with his issues as every relationship he has falls apart around him is a Mary Sue

Every Pokemon protagonist ever. They get their first Pokemon when they're 10-12 years old, and in no time they're stronger than every adult in the region even though they have decades more experience. They single-handedly take down entire criminal organizations, submit deities to their will, save the world, and become Champion of their region's League. And sometimes they're not even locals, the MC of Sun and Moon is basically mighty whitey: the character.

All western characters featured on any "Greatest Female Characters in Video Games" list.

You've got a point.

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Dio?

Thanks for contributing to the thread you dumb nigger great post

>ignoring that a lot of Batman’s shortcomings is his attitude

Hence the quotation marks. How "fated" it actually is basically depends on how much you think Geralt actually likes Yennefer. You can drop her like a sack of potatoes in 3 if you want, but the story is clearly written in such a way that they are meant to be together genie or no.

>almost
He died. The games just had to bring him back to life to even continue the story.

Hey Dobson, reading the threads about you again eh? Don’t worry newfags will learn about you soon enough you disgusting bitch

Practically all his shortcomings are because he's genuinely mentally ill.

But user, he can beat up Superman if he has enough time!

>using "mighty whitey" unironically

Facing adversity doesn't make a character any less of a mary stu. Case in point, the main character from the Twilight series.

Is Dobson the Mary Stu of losers?

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Speedball, one of the only lighthearted and happy character during the 00s (Marvel Comics' equivalent of the Brown's bloom shooter era), turned into that Deviantart monstrosity after the school incident. Fucking hell.

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As much as I miss old Lara, I will admit that these games did grow on me.
And new Lara is hardly a Mary Sue. If anything, Old Lara was more of a Mary Sue.
Old Lara was some kind of female hybrid of Indiana Jones, James Bond, and Batman that came out of every bad situation smelling like roses. Some of the strength feats alone of old Lara, especially when factoring in comics, would make any one of those three men look like weak little wimps.

Nu-Lara on the other hand is a colossal fuck up that is conatantly getting people killed and she herself is constantly having meltdowns over how badly she either fucks up or gets fucked up. And it doesn't steadily improve over time either. It just gets worse to the point where the entire terrible thing she needs to prevent in the final game, the flippin' apocolypse, was ushered in by her in hand because she couldn't stop herself from finger fucking shit in every tomb she entered.

Being too intelligent/badass/superior to have friends is a common nerd boy coping fantasy.

Are you telling me you wouldn’t fuck this if you had a vagina?

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Most stories are about him failing at basic human relationships and actions despite his best efforts and retreating into his own world as a defense.

heh

Civil War was such a shit show

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Still a shitty example, Peter Parker is a nerd that gets slammed into lockers, he has adversity to overcome and he grows as a character from a useless pussy to a hero, vs Rey, who’s “adversity” is that she’s alone but also somehow has managed to be in peak shape, gain wicked bow staff skills, climbing skills, can beat up storm troopers, can fly the millennium falcon etc etc

What you described is an edge lord and not a Mary Sue.

Ash has literally never won a pokemon tournament.

dayum

The original Civil War comic. And for the record, what actually happened is that one of the villains had the power to blow himself up, and intentionally blew himself up right next to the school.

If only those flaws actually affected the characters in a negative way

You could replace fighting crime with booze and he would be the same exact character running away from his problems and harming himself to cope with his perceived failures.

If I had a vagina I'd be rubbing it against another vagina fag

To be fair, the most recent Robin is his actual, biological son who practically worships the ground his father walks on and is basically set up to inherit the cowl when he's older. He even emulates his father's behavior while also still clearly being a little kid.

Ziodynecock

I was talking about the videogame protagonists, not the Ashnime.

Thanks user!

Right but her getting owned is almost never her fault or have anything to do with her not being good enough, it’s always some asspull as to why she got beat and then you chase a McGuffin and win

They also have to work on their relationship for years to really get together, so the usual "it's fate" bullshit doesn't apply here.

The protagonists are literally blank slate player avatars and can't be a mary sue.

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I remember there was a scene in one of the books where he gets sucker-clubbed to the head by literal who street thugs when exiting a tavern and they rob him of his fancy leather armor he had been saving up for

these are great, do you happen to have 1-6? and the others if there are more

youtu.be/rMNRKz07uf4
here's a real mary sue

It was fucking awful and I remember the end being basically Cap saying : "our fights made casualties among civilians, Tony was right all along, we surrender !" And that was basically it.
Read the second part of my reply where I explain why he's NOT a Gary-Stu.

>can't be hurt

Superman gets hurt all the time.

It is her fault, though - Sylens repeatedly calls her out for her ignorance and assumptions and is proven right every time. It's justified because she's young, but she gets outclassed by him at every turn.

how do I make my character not a mary sue

The thug that killed Batman's parents could beat the joker if he really wanted.

>It's hard to imagine a world that NEEDS super heroes because we don't live in a world that has real super villains.

Na, we have them; they’re called politicians.

make them crippled dyslexic trannies

john wick is a mary sue but we all love him, wtf

How so? She's a manchild that fails more than she succeeds

This argument falls apart when you realize everyone he comes into contact with loathes him and he’s almost completely broke.

if only it ended at 2 with him finally settling down and not the whole "him vs the world" bullshit 3 is doing

Just don't pull one-time abilities out of the ass.

Please tell me Dobson didn't do Breast expansion stuff much more than his inflation crap
Please tell me he didn't soil my fetish

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well... not all of them are applicable

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Don't forget the part where he's reduced to sulking and whining while the party feeds him and generally makes sure he doesn't freeze his dumb ass off.
>Oh look, he's mad again. Whenever he doesn't know how to respond, he gets mad. If it weren't for us, you'd be sitting here cold, hungry, and useless.

nah, retardation is more severe like down syndrome or aspergers etc. There are a lot of high functioning autists.

Would the sudden ability to transform/spirit bomb be a plot device limited to the situation or would it make Trunks a Mary Sue for the arc?
Toei's writers are shit regardless, but I'm curious to hear your reasoning.

if batman is so upset about his parents dying, maybe he should calm his tits

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>crtl F
>kirby
>0 matches found

Kirby is a mary sue, but hes one of the best ones. No one can get mad at the pink borb of genocide

Mary sues are a bit harder to identify in game. A lot of the no good poo poo characterization strategies that people shit on in media other than video games are actually embraced by video games. If you're game isn't very narrative heavy, and you want to show the protagonist losing the player must then lose that encounter in some games. Square Enix likes to do these little display fights where they want the player to experience the loss the protag is feeling. But games usually avoid this because it feels like shit to lose and you often don't know which fights are display fights and which aren't. So, you could end up using all of your healing items trying to beat a boss you lost (and had to lose to!) in the first place.

People are more willing to embrace Mary Sues in games because the protagonists are extensions of themselves into the game world. Now, this isn't an excuse or anything. There's still ways to write a flawed protaganist with an actual character arc, people just don't do it because they want you to like their stuff more. That's it.

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Give them realistic flaws that actually affect them.
Make sure they don't succeed at absolutely everything.
Limit the amount of sooper special snowflake abilities/origins they have.

None of that is true though.
In order for anybody to actually want to fuck you, you have to spend time and effort developing that relationship. If you don't put in the work to build strength and level up, you're not going to be able to beat the final boss. Being a martyr at the end of the game doesn't immediately make him a mary sue you dunce.

Asperger's is a type of high-functioning autism, user.

*you're
your. Excuse an additional retardedness

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Batman isn't perfect and actually trains to be as good as he is. What the heck is he even talking about?

Don't have the story revolve solely around them and/or don't have them pull bullshit out of their ass to overcome all obstacles. They shouldn't be good at everything, especially not without plausible reasons as to why, and the rest of the cast should not love them unconditionally.

>lets use ill defined concept initially limited to fanfiction to label characters that I don't like
It was a mistake. Also you can say that almost any video game protagonist is a sue just because being players avatar he is hypercompetent.

Maybe his feelings.

I’m not reading it and you can’t make me nigger, I bet your post was stupid as fuck anyways, you’re the dumbest mother fucker in this thread

If it is a man the term is Gary Stu you greasy pathetic manlet

Sometimes Mary Sues can be fun and appealing characters

>the hero of /pol/ is a legit schizo
The irony is powerful.

WOAH NICE ONE HEY GUYS! LOOK! THIS GUYS SMART AS FUCK!! HE SAYS WE DO HAVE SUPER VILLAINS THEYRE JUST POLITICIANS! FUCK WHY DIDNT WE THINK OF THAT GODDAMN YOURE A SMART ONE user

You are silly

But even that is complete shit

They really aren't user, no.

Unironically Max Payne.
The guy is very definition of "my will to live trumps all odds". He is only a police officer, with no army training, the closest thing he has to that is his Vietnam vet dad, making his excellent marksman skills a mystery. He's not superhuman, so no explanation for Bullet Time, and he mostly works alone, yet still comes out on top every time. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but the fact that he kill thousands of people with ease because of "muh depression" undeniably makes him a Gary Stu.

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if I gave them all of my flaws, aren’t they actually a different, original definition of a mary sue, being the self insert of an author?

It's not particularly hard to hurt Superman. It's just a real bitch to kill him.

What the fuck are you talking about? Cahir is a little bitch boy.

>my will to live trumps all odds
You have it wrong. He doesn't give a fuck about living yet still survives everything

He alludes to this at least sorta in Max Payne 1. He says something like how there was no real trick or skill to it beyond just keeping focused and hoping you're still standing when firing stops.

So how come that doomguy kills hundreds of demons while being just a simple marine?

His old stuff is definitely more greasy. In his old days he used the burn tool to get nice, saturated contrasting separations between his light, dark and midtones. Problem with this is, you sort of miss out in the fact that in art, if you're going to have smooth color gradients you need strong shifts and transitions in value and more subtle ones. He just has these smooth color gradients and it makes everything look gross.

>Me
>The dumbest motherfucker in this thread only
Thanks for the support user

Self inserts don't automatically mean they're also a Mary Sue. Though the author self-inserting themselves is typically frowned upon no matter what.

>This is irrelevant to being a Mary Sue
No it's not.
And Batman is far from being one, his backstory is long and explains a lot of his character, specially to make him being this dark personality that doesn't relate to anyone, living a double life.

See, what you're describing there is game mechanics. The shitty self insert character who magically transforms into an ultra chad just because he consumes some beef bowls is still a Mary Sue. He was made to be perfect so that pathetic neets can relive the high school experience that they never got to experience in real life.

>but every time I see someone calls a character a Mary Sue is because she's attractive.
I hope you aren't implying that fucking Rey is attractive

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Nobody gives a fuck about Doom's backstory.

Pretty sure Batman´s weird sense of justice killed Robin.

>See, what you're describing there is game mechanics.
>The shitty self insert character who magically transforms into an ultra chad just because he consumes some beef bowls is still a Mary Sue.

95% of video games are just a power fantasy so it's no wonder that the majority of protagonists are Mary Sues/Gary Stus

This fucking faggot

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Not him, but doomguy doesn't exist in a serious narrative. People like doomguy being an all-powerful killing machine because being doomguy is empowering. You can't judge say, the John Wick movies the same way you would judge American Sniper, or any other kind of shooty flick.

even carmack gave no shits about the story since video games didn’t need one according to him

Madame Bovary is a self insert by Gustave Flaubert, yet it is classical literatur.

why would anyone help?

Nobody gives a fuck about max pain either, its a shooter, you kill hundreds.

I'd call it a plot device limited to the situation purely because it was not only a one-time thing, but the end result of it all was turning Zamasu into not-Giygas which ended up resulting in Trunks' entirely timeline, literally everything here's been fighting for for decades, getting erased for good
To me, actual Mary Sues don't lose that hard in the end, it also helps that once again, the reason he needed to travel back in time again was because he was getting his ass manhandled by Black

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>In order for anybody to actually want to fuck you
You usually need to be good looking.

Calling stardust a mary sue is racketeering. You are now in the power of Stardust.

That's cute, now read the rest of what was written.

>Dick
Was going to break down mentally if he never got revenge
>Jason
Street punk who genuinely wanted to beat the shit out of crooks
>Tim
Batman swore to never have a Robin after Jason's death but Tim figured out Batman's identity and wouldn't take 'no' for an answer
>Damian
Was a literal psychopath that desired nothing but his father's approval.

Honestly, most of the Robins are incredibly justified. Cassandra and Stephanie are both also justified as Batgirls (and temp Robin in Steph's case). Barbara has NEVER made sense though.

Majority of video games are build around gameplay first, that can cause dissonance with a narrative and often does.

Gordon Freeman.

People are more lenient when it comes to the "classics". In the Divine Comedy, the author literally inserted himself in the story to hang out with cool historical figures, get his newly deified GF, and put his critics in Hell.

Go back to Resetera. Ignoring the fact that you can pick the character's race, wouldn't they be Asian considering Kanto is supposed to be Japan?

Just stop calling poorly written characters "mary sue".

Fatefags should be dragged out into the street and shot.

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That shit, as another user mentioned, varies HEAVILY writer to writer, similarly to Superman's power. Joker is usually much less murderous, with his crimes numbering in the hundreds at most. The only times he has gone into the thousands would be alternate universes (Injustice, probably some Elseworlds shit) and poorly written comics.

Mary sues are poorly written characters.

Spider-Man isn't a Mary Sue. He fucks up all the time and his life is just a long train of pure misery.

All Mary Sues are poorly written characters but not all poorly written characters are Mary Sues.

hl1 felt like a non serious doom-esque plot that made gordon freeman’s mute nature seem alright
hl2 though made everything painfully serious and plotful, gordon was made into mary sue prime (try to disarm me? thanks for the supercharged gravity gun, fags), and his mute nature was just awkward with characters constantly fellating him to zero response

The only time Dobson was ever right about anything was when talking about Politcs in Comic books were always a thing

I can agree to that. It's lost any sort of useful meaning in conversation. Also, I'm not so sure we need to analyze the writing in video games the same way to read into film or novels.

>I'm King Arthur. Of England. The country.
>Oh man, you're so good at cooking! Time to give you my hole.

Thats called antisue, user, and its a subspecies of mary sue.

Goku loses more than he wins, by quite a large margin.
He's not a mary sue

>Character’s motivation to be in the story is reasonable
>Character’s peers/friends may care for him, but they don’t give them oral at will
>They can be sought after by everyone, but ensure that they are sought after by everyone for how the world works (ie. Buddy from Lisa being important since she is the only way for humanity to have future generations in Lisa, and Brad wants to fill the space her suicidal sister left)
>When they act childish/immature, people know that they are being childish/immature (like when a problem happens and they do nothing but bitch about it, have the characters call them out on it)
>They have character flaws that actually impact the story to create problems for them (like having their ego ruin a deal they may want)
>Don’t have your character act virtuous for no reason other than to be virtuous
>Have them disagree with you politically, but not in a “IM SILLY” way
>Don’t give your characters special snow flake genders/sexualities. (weird fetishes is a-ok though)
>Have them only preform actions based on what they should be doing (like Aliens that can doing alien things are fine, and soldiers doing martial arts is fine. Having a detective immediately solve any case without any actual detective work is not)
>If your character is Half-1species, Half-2species, don’t give them the strengths of both and not mention the weaknesses of either
>Don’t have their lines consist of comebacks that a 12 yo thinks of at night after losing an argument
>Have them be a 6.5/10 at best and don’t go into too much detail about their design
There. Your character should be Mary Sue/Marty Stu proof 100% now

Except the trade-off is that Bruce is a mentally devastated man that constantly fucks over his relationships and is intensely disliked by most of the heroes and villains in the universe, those that know him at least. Even fucking Superman disliked him at first.

He also is presented as an incredible prodigy that had to struggle through decades of intense training nearly 24/7 to become as skilled as he was today and even then he was a complete joke in his first year as Batman.

based garfield poster

>Dob doesn't even react
What the hell?

>he was made to be perfect
>even though I fully admit he is not perfect at the start of the story and he has to work hard to be anything close to perfect by the end
ok retard

>Lightning literally becomes Jesus
>in the Japanese game, God falls in love with her

That's a pretty shallow and inexperienced take on relationships
I'm guessing you don't get out much

You'd have to be a supreme idealist to think that an unrepentant criminal with a body count numbering hundreds is redeemable and only needs help. Batman is generally not portrayed as a wide-eyed idealist, making this display of boundless empathy really jarring.

This
Goku is also a huge asshole and most people who aren’t his close friends/families don’t even know he really exists.
The most mary sue he gets is when he befriends Beerus and Xeno.

i opened this thread thinking it would be a dobson hate thread but it's just a bunch of autism over semantics and made-up labels for fictional characters

>Neither of you must have watched Goku grow up in the original Dragon Ball
Goku was a worse character in original Dragon Ball tho. When the fuck was he ever challenged? His first actual opponent was the best fucking martial artist in the entire world for fucks sake.

Well you know what they say, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.

People ask how to get a GF here all the time. The real answer is to learn to cook. That saying about the quickest way to a man's heart is true about women too.

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Yeah, I didn't liked how everyone liked and almost never blamed Gordon.
Fuck the first person who ever gave him shit was Magnusson, and it was mostly a personality flaw rather than actual opposition.
And I can imagine plenty of reason why people would dislike Gordon, he's the sole reason the entire refugee system went down to shit because the Combines were trying to prevent him from getting any form of backup, he follows everything people tell him to do without ever second guessing, he's one of those responsible for the Black Mesa incident, his carelessness get the people with him killed often, ...

This, I'm surprised how often you can get people to like you just by giving them food.

dobson hate threads are played out

Would you make me a sandwich?

And its not even close.

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To be fair that screenshot makes a lot less sense when out of context

I always felt that you could spot a Mary Sue character by how out of place they feel in their surroundings

>Terry
>/pol/
You fucking retarded nigger

Well, the belief that Batman thinks that way is heavily flawed. Most people would point to him 'saving' Joker but this factually wrong. Every time the Joker's life has been at risk, Batman has simply ignored him. The only reason Batman has ever saved The Joker is due to it being linked to saving other innocent lives or due to the murderer being someone he loves (Like Jason, who was becoming a murderer).

In regards to Bruce's idealism...Batman has saved and cared about less evil members of his rogue gallery, despite them having large body counts but this is arguably less due to some sense of idealism and more related to it being a psychological mechanism to prevent him from breaking. He has consistently stated that he is afraid that going over the boundary just once would break him.

You can easily look at Dark Nights: Metal to get a prime example of what happens when Batman goes over the edge.

>Trust me, I have a 300lb girlfriend

>Can just get more power if he’s loosing
Other sayans can do ut too, and the whole thing is dropped after he achives super sayan.
>Nobody ever questions o reprimands Goku
Thats not true, everyone facepalmed when Goku gave sensubean to Cell.
>Entire motivation is that he wants to be more powerful than whoever happens to show up at the time
Thats racial thing, Vegeta is the same. And some other characters were the same until they kinda got hoplessly left behind power level.
>His friends are mostly worthless and only good at supporting Goku, which they are never allowed to surpass.
Gohan defeated Cell, Buu arc was mostly about fusion and spirit bomb wouldn't do shit without mr. Satan.

When did mary sue suddenly mean high power level? I'd call shinji the biggest gary sue simply because he's an obvious self insert of anno's autism that weebs could point to and say "wow this is literally me". Don't see why it has to be idealized, its liking a character for no other reason than being reminded of your own problems instead of liking someone for having a dynamic arc.

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yeah god forbid actual discussion about game characters takes place instead of generic LOL thread #6908281. kill yourself.

In OG Dragon Ball, he couldn’t bruteforce is way through every opponent, and was forced to come up with cleaver ways to beat them. It was like that until that martial arts guy, where he needed to bruteforce his way.

It honestly makes him more of a Marty Stu when his solution to his problems is just punching fast and hard enough, over tricking the opponent into a bad situation or using their weakness against them.
Also, having hundreds of new forms every season since the Frieza Saga doesn’t help either.

Probably any game based on an anime with an OC protagonist.

What are some good batman comics? Already read the top 10 picks but I'm not a Yea Forums frequenter so I don't know what else there is.

She's not alive long enough to be one. Tifa is more mary sue ish.

Because the entire point of a Mary Sue is escapism, you moron. Shinji doesn't work because he exists entirely to respresent a bunch of completely fucked personality flaws. A Mary Sue doesn't have to be powerful, it just has to act as an escapist vector for the author.

the fun thing about mary sue threads is that it always devolves to arguing about what a mary sue even is.

any game that has that boomerang oc that was in shovel knight

He is a commentary on anime Gary Stus; multiple women wanting the unremarkable protagonist is standard, but here it only amplifies his loneliness leading up to The End of Evangelion and the response is 2.22222 where even Asuka treats him better. There he is more of a Gary Stu and we see the results of that in 3.33333.

Knowing how to cook is knowing how to make healthy and hearty food. Any idiot can dump sugar, fat and grease into a pan.
Also
>Take you ass to the gym or I'm not making dinner tonight.
If you can't manage to make non-artery clogging meals.

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Adol

Entire point of fiction is entertainment.

Literally every protag in an isekai.

He's used to getting bullied for being a faggot.

Wtf? Clearly you didn’t read the comic where batman is under investigation for being a sexual predator that preys on young boys

Maybe you should interact with real people once in a while.

it's sort of funny how his art somehow got WORSE

Yes, for the audience. A Mary Sue is specifically an author self-insert. Go read My Immortal for the golden example.

Tifa lets a mental patient carry on with his delusions despite knowing he's full of shit until she's literally forced into his soul to fix them

He was too brainlet to even take the easy brainlet approach of whining about Superman.

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>A Mary Sue is specifically an author self-insert
It can be, but not always. Self inserts are just much more likely to embody Mary Sue type traits.

>Iron Man: "Computer, invent time travel!"
>*BEEP BOOP BEEP*
>"Time travel invented"

>SON OF DOB

But Batman is flawed? His inability to kill is literally one of the biggest aspects of his character

fucking dobby

Haha more like
>Daughter of an emeperor but doesn't want to rule, just want to be a witcher like her "daddy"
>Has white hair like geralt, but doesn't need to go trough witcher gene reassignment therapy so she's still fertile
>Can do magic and has her own special space/time bending magic that can only be controlled by her
>First introduced moveset of her is literally a "teleport behind you"
>Everyone from all over the riftgaard is seeking her because of her special powers

You are outing yourself as never watching Dragon Ball more than once casually.
>In OG Dragon Ball, he couldn’t bruteforce is way through every opponent, and was forced to come up with cleaver ways to beat them.
He beat most of his opponents by being more powerful than them. What are you even talking about?
>when his solution to his problems is just punching fast and hard enough, over tricking the opponent into a bad situation or using their weakness against them.
Haha what?
>Raditz
Had to work together with Piccolo to win. Had to figure out Raditz had a similar weakness to him (with the tail) and grapple Raditz in a sacrificial kill.
>Vegeta
Had to rely on working with Krillin, Gohan and Yajirobe to win. Had to constantly abuse the Kaio-Ken, use energy shields, etc to stand a chance.
>Frieza
Had to abuse Frieza's lack of energy sense, arrogance and general ignorance.
>Cell
Had to contend with and survive Cell's complex techniques and utilise an Instant Transmission + Kamehameha combination. Couldn't win and had to use a dangerous plan to unlock Gohan's potential to save the world.
>Buu
Literally had to spend the entire arc using various strategies and ideas to slow and eventually defeat Buu.
>Beerus
Had to master energy cancelling to prevent the universe from being erased.
>Hit
Had to predict Hit's every movement to stand the slightest hint of a chance. Had to adapt to and deal with Hit's assassination techniques in their rematch.
>Jiren
Needed to use every possible technique in his arsenal and still lost. Only won thanks to Frieza and 17.

The only character Goku has ever beaten with just raw power (that wasn't fodder) was Frieza and that was arguably due to Toriyama writing himself into a corner.

>Shinji
>Mary Sue
This is the most baffling thing I've heard in a while.

Batman's no-kill rule is played best when it's something of a personal flaw, I think. It's not always the objectively right thing to do, but it's what's necessary to stop him going off the deep end and he knows it. Not to mention him placing a high value on all life, even if misguided, is still admirable.

>It can be, but not always
No, it literally always is. That's the whole fucking idea of a Mary Sue. If it's got Mary Sue traits but isn't a self-insert, it's just a bad character.

His no killing rule can work both ways.
If the rule is never questioned, its a mary sue trait.
If the rule is questioned, then its a character flaw.
In some stories, the no kill ruin is questioned, and sometimes it isn’t.

because shinji isn't a self-insert. you could argue anno put a lot of himself into the character, but that can be said as evangelion as a whole and not just shinji's character. even so, shinji is still his own character with understandable and realistic actions when looking at him solely within the context of the show. his relationships to other characters, his reactions to plot events, and his motivations (or lack thereof) all make sense given his characterization, and that characterization itself is given proper setup. none of what shinji is or does feels like authorial asspull to make him seem like an interesting character for that sake alone, or to make the author feel special. in fact, you could argue shinji is a deliberate antithesis to that, as one of the defining themes of the entire show is to get him (and the audience by proxy) to reject escapist fantasy and learn to live a real life despite the discomfort it brings.

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>Spider-Man's a Mary Sue because he has attractive women who like him

hahahahahahaha

Nathan Drake

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>"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment."
>Often
>As in, not always

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Based user pulling a spider-fan psy-op. What was your favorite suit in the game?

She's pretty cute. I like boyish girls

Bitches Love Spider-Man is a meme for a reason. The boy drowns in pussy without doing a single thing to attract it

More like you like Anglo subhumans

>got his ass handled to him by a woman

Bruce is like a cat.

I think Geralt is one of the few vidya protagonists that's as far away from a Gary Stue as possible
>Is an outcast
>People spit in the street when he walks past
>Only does 'good deeds' if he gets paid for them
>Isn't the smartest guy and gets manipulated constantly

Whoever thinks Geralt is a Gary Stue should literally reconsider their intelligence

that's cute too slavs are disgusting tho

>as one of the defining themes of the entire show is to get him (and the audience by proxy) to reject escapist fantasy and learn to live a real life despite the discomfort it brings.
>tfw it did the complete opposite to me
I never learn

>The boy drowns in pussy without doing a single thing to attract it

>handsome
>athletic
>funny
>intelligent
>kind and caring

yeah, god knows why bitches love spider-man

wtf you described garrett, not geralt

I dont care what anyone says, no one is a bigger mary sue than this faggot. His only flaw is that Lilah won't like like him. No 9/10 year old has the fucking maturity of an adult or has ever solved an adult's problem.
>make show about middle/high schoolers
>say they are 4th graders
Why was Nickelodeon always doing this?

Spider-man does have 8 legs

Not even one trait mentioned here is characterizing a Mary Sue you braindead mongrel

Sorry forgot my picture.

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7 Peniseas. Maybe more.

>Has a physical deformity with his head being in the shape of a football
>”””Mary Sue”””

>No 9/10 year old has the fucking maturity of an adult or has ever solved an adult's problem.
Well when there are adults with the maturity of children, why wouldn't there be the opposite? The universe loves balance.

all of the day bro

Focus less on crippling your possible mary sue and focus more on solidifying and rounding out the rest of the cast.

>GT doesn't think Geralt is a Mary Sue
Fuck guys, Geralt is a Mary Sue now.

Wasn't Shinji supposed to be a deconstruction of the "child piloting a robot in a life or death situation"?

is the joke that mary sue is a female name?
But during the stone age...

>No 9/10 year old has the fucking maturity of an adult or has ever solved an adult's problem.
Depends on their environment.