Does it hold up?

Do you have a point or are you retarded?

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Rydia was my first waifu. She still holds up.

>The revolving door full of unmemorable party members wasn't great.
this

Based Cecil forgiving his big bro.

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The bars all fill at the same speed, every action or spell has a predetermined number of frames before it activates. The only thing determined by agility is the enemy turn timer which is determined by throwing cecil (or the centermost party member)'s agility value into a blender and coming up with a new number that is the number of frames between their turns (often, the ideal value is not high or low, but a multiple of some random number depending on enemy, such as any value at or slightly higher than 14x for zeromus)

Golbez dindu nuffin

Plot is pretty basic and there isn't much customization so all your playthroughs are the same thing.

Isn't that what ATB is? Didn't Final Fantasy coin the term?

user that's a cool tidbit to learn but that doesn't stop it from being ATB just because the implementation is potentially unrefined

What the fuck are you on about, they called it active time battle and it was a big new feature. What the fuck does any of your dumb garbage have to do with it when FF4 is literally where the ATB system as designated by Square originated?

Yeah, this dude is half a-press lvl retarded. It's ATB

yang's wife best girl

>The bars all fill at the same speed
FF4 is the only ones where they dont though

>Rydia's body matured at an accelerated rate
>but her mind did not

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For example, edge attacks faster than cid because edge has a shorter frame delay on his attack action than cid does, and white mages are slower than black mages because white mahic has a longer frame delay. For example try going through the spell list with FuSoYa. Nuke is almost instant cast, while cure 4 takes a year and a half.

Also, berserk snaps the game in half by completely removing the attack delay and therefore making the affected character act over 2x and sometimes up to nearly 3x as often as selecting basic attack.

I prefer 13's ATB above all other types, unironically. I still prefer most of the classics (sans 8 and 9) over 13 though, because they're overall more cohesive experiences. Less bulshit, more understanding of what they want to be (IE there's not tutorial prompts showing up THIRTY HOURS into the game)

How old do you think adult rydia was.

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You've put so much thought in to this without managing to realize that FF4 started ATB and all of the things you are talking about are just tweaks to the original system.

20?

the only FF that holds up is 4, and maybe, 9

Do you mean Final Fantasy IV in general, or Final Fantasy IV Advance specifically since that is what you posted a picture of?

definitely.

>plot is a mess (basically the prototype for VIII)
>constant fake deaths
>most of the characters are forgettable
>super linear by classic FF standards
>horrible customization, practically non-existent
>introduced ATB cancer

at least it had a bangin' soundtrack

youtube.com/watch?v=wmT7Y0KvZSA

>9
Can anyone fill me in as to why everyone sucks 9's dick? It was better than 8, sure, but there was nothing memorable about that game.

15, 21 in the USA though

Contrarianism, special snowflake choice.
I wanted to like the game so much when it came out because VIII was such a stupid clusterfuck. It's really quite bad though and there's a reason it's even less remembered than the mediocre V.

Look! Our prayers...
Our prayers have been answered!
youtube.com/watch?v=VmOU9fvcxlE

>in b4 a billion bait replies
I suppose it just didn't click with you, user. Personally I'd say the artstyle alone and some of the characters are really memorable, but hey, if it didn't do it for you, then it didn't do it for you.

>there's a reason it's even less remembered than the mediocre V.
How can one person be so wrong!

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damn pretty good

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>This
Remember when everyone jerked off to 6 for 5 years? Well now 6 is popular so faggots are building up 9 like it's the greatest.

>there was nothing memorable about that game
What does this claim mean, usually? That you can't remember anything about the game? The music, the characters, their stories, nothing?

All criticism of FF4 is invalid because the Theme of Love exists.

youtube.com/watch?v=IBL8Zyp7n4I

9 had some issues with the way ATB worked as well. Long animations ended up making buffs completely useless.

I guess the rat dance was pretty memorable but for all the wrong reasons

>basically the prototype for VIII
How?

It's in my top 10 snes games and feels almost perfect to me. Im influenced by nostalgia. Soundtrack is amazing and back in the day there were some truly horrifying and memorable moments. Its made for people of the early 90s, not the people of today

It's one of those games where playing it in the context of when it was originally released is key
Zoomers will never understand

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Fuck no, and it's not a problem of the combat system.
People who played it as a kid praise this games writing like it's shakespeare, but it has some of the laziest writing I've seen in a video game and that includes pokemon.
They pull the heroic death shit so much that it loses all impact.
But wait they all actually survived! making them go from meaningless emotion jerkers to actively irritating wastes of time.
Cid surviving that shit is literally fanfiction.net tier.
>so I jumped into lava and blewed up and then it caved in on me, but I am faster, and party needs me to make ship go better, so I went to the other side of the world and slept for an hour

>"b-but this was squaresoft's first snes jrpg!"
So fucking what?
Did squaresoft invent the art of storytelling with ffiv?

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While not as good as 5 or 6, 4 is still a pretty good game. The SNES version with the baby-tier difficulty is kinda shit, but the DS remake is still great. The fakeout deaths after fakeout deaths get tiresome after the first time, but the core cast is all pretty strong and there are some really cool moments along the way even if most of them get made redundant later on.

>People who played it as a kid praise this games writing like it's shakespeare
I've never seen that for FF4, people treat this more like a fairy tale or disney film they loved as a kid because yeah, it's retarded but full of heart.

Yep. I'm old and got ff2 when the snes came out here. Only had it and mario world for a while. Final fantasy was incredible because there was nothing like it

Played the PSP anniversary edition a couple years ago and loved it. I'm waiting for releases of V and VI of that level before I play them, as they're the last 2 good FF games I haven't played.

>praise this games writing like it's shakespear
I don't recall ever seeing a single person defending FFIV's writing as in any way incredibly deep and meaningful.
If anything it's curious in the way it's very much NES-like in tone and pacing sometimes, where you could just throw a curveball like the Dark Elf and Dr. Lugae at the player without much worry on how it would fit the tone of the world as a whole. Also, of course, LUNAR WHALE.

it's the weakest of the SNES trilogy but it's still not bad

>IV got amazing sprite graphics
>V and VI got this

Attached: Are you alright.png (399x470, 199K)

This. The moment I realized to win against Dark knight Cecil I had to not attack, and Cecil's redemption, will always be one of my childhood defining moments.

Aren't the PC versions modded to look good yet?

Not a whole of people like FF4 nowadays.

But I enjoy it. It's simple and pretty restrictive yes, but it's what got me into FF to begin with. So I have a soft spot for it.

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Listen, you have to acknowledge how works hold up over time. Morrowind for example is still fun to play, DQ3 is still fun to play, Castlevania, Megaman etc. FF4 was heavily held together by its' plot which is completely outdated, it feels bare-bones now. The game had little to no replayability when it came out and what is there of the story has probably been spoiled to death. There is no reason to play FF4

I mean, is not unappealing, very fucking feminine looking but not bad.

if only we could weaponize your autism. we would be unstoppable, my friend

>ATB is in general, inferior to turn based at the end of the day.
Literally how

Play either the Namingway version of SNES FF4 for the vanilla experience or the PSP version if you want the full package.

The mobile ports are fucking disgusting, and being spoiled by IV's gorgeous remaster is keeping me from playing V and VI. I saw an anniversary announcement teased on a Famistsu cover recently. Maybe it's going to happen.

As good as IV?

>Morrowind for example is still fun to play
I guessss. It's no Daggerfall that's for sure

He's right. It's a superficial attempt to make turn based JRPG combat more "exciting" but all it does is make it sloppier and then you end up waiting for the gauges to fill up anyway so it's actually slower and less active. Worse of both worlds and glad FFX dropped it.

I played it when it was new, and when I was 10. For me, it was awesome back then. I found a game genie code on prodigy or something, called "The Gunslinger Code," which let you cycle through items, turning any item into any other item, and even allowing you to find items only in the JP version or glitched items. It was lots of fun.

If I revisited it now... not sure if I would like it.

Final Fantasy 4 and Final Fantasy 12 are the best FF games.
Anyone who replies this not agreeing with me is confirmed gay as fuck.

It's just turn based with extra unnecessary steps. With some settings and games the bars stop in the menus making it double pointless. It inspired shitty stuff like cyans useless swordarts, made haste a godtierneccessary-ability etc. Hell, half the time the enemies just use reactions instead of ATB at all. It completely decimates the pace of combat, play a DQ or SMT then play ATB FF tell me which feels smoother and faster.

>I'm waiting for releases of V and VI of that level
i have terrible news

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I feel like a remake of V would be the best game of all time
V is maybe my personal favorite game of all time, but I feel like a big budget and tons of side content would really help flesh out the job system so that you can play around with tons of combos

It's not really the portrait that's the problem, though they certainly could be better, it's just the spritework for those two games as a whole are really, really not good at all for anything apart from monster sprites, which admittedly are gorgeous. It's too smooth and lacks detail, and environments can look really poor as well. It doesn't hold up, especially when we have proper sprite remakes for I, II and IV to measure them against. It was just a patched up mess they made for phones.

Daggerfall Unity full release when.
I get in the mood on and off to play a dungeon crawler, but the base game really wouldn't do it for me at this point because of technical limitations. I would a thousand times out of a thousand play an old console game before playing an old PC game, far less trouble.

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Please don't post screens from that "remaster". It gives me nightmares. I'm waiting for a proper remaster.

Well yeah, I just used Morrowind in this example because I prefer Morrowind just slightly more. Arena blows btw I just say that any chance I get.

The problem with FF4 is just that it wasn't built to age. FF5 is the same game it was twenty years ago if you picked it up today, if someone is into the sort of class system and the more camp presentation then they'll like it. From a technical standpoint FF6 released at the peak of its generation and no one has really pushed to succeed it, it's a very unique title still.

A lot of people would've once put FF4 down as their favourite but anyone new coming into the franchise won't be able to appreciate it like they might its brothers. Cecil is a very 1990s protagonist, the sort of rival character Kain is standard instead of refreshing now, it's become ugly for an SNES title, and linear character progression is uncommon even among the most generic JRPGs now.

FF4 has really aged worse than even the titles preceding it.

Why do they always use shitty fonts

Zeromus is still one of the best songs from FF as a series. That final boss fight was hype as fuck for that alone

This
>original western release removed several abilities from your party members
For what fucking purpose? It blew my mind playing later releases and seeing that just about every character had one or two extra abilities.

Zeromus was like the only FF final boss that doesn't spam annoying multi-status ailment attacks. But instead he just does a fuckton of raw damage.

The DS version does.

"FF2" is the quintessential butchered 90s localization
We've come a long way

Really? Damn. I played II in English. I played IV on PSP in moon and enjoyed it a lot. I don't know if I'll go back and replay them all, though.

His theme is a fucking blast, many prefer Dancing Mad and One Winged Angel but I consider this one the best of them all, it just sounds menacing as fuck.
youtube.com/watch?v=CSUgvs0UK50

In fairness many of the removed abilities are pretty worthless anyway.
Oh boy the ability to use shitty basic potions on the party with no option to use any other potion or ethers?
Sign me up!

The SNES release of IV(II) had several abilities removed from your characters. Cecil's Darkness ability as a Dark Knight, Rosa's Pray, Tellah's Recall, Yang's Focus and Brace, Palom's Bluff, and Porom's Cry.

I like ExDeath's Decisive Battle the best out of all the final boss themes. Although it's technically not the final boss theme, which would be Neo ExDeath's, but I don't like it as much.
youtube.com/watch?v=PDZYS7Gc5TQ
Them drums.

No.
>forced to position five (5) party members a particular way
>useless, cannon fodder party members
>"lol just kidding I'm alive, because this game just wouldn't be complete without me"
>no unique progression mechanics
It has my favorite generic boss theme, but that's about it.

Oh you mean that II. I played that one in Japanese so I'm good. Sucks that those abilities were gone. I used most of them, especially focus.

It sucks not a single remix can get the drums/bass right
The drums and bass make this song 10/10

I still don't understand what the fuck Zeromus' sprite is supposed to be.

While it's somewhat relevant, what's the best way to play FFVI?
I'd assume GBA since it seems like it has the most content

I have a soft spot for this game since I owned it on the SNES as a kid. I remember lending it to one of my friends and his dad (a strict mormon polygamist) had a cleared save with the party at level 80 when I got it back. But it was the first game I would say I enjoyed the story in. Rydia is still the best FF girl even to this day.

Probably doesn't hold up as well today, but I enjoyed the DS remake. Need to get around to playing the PSP version so I can finally do the after years.

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VI because it has the best music quality.
>B-but the patch!
No, it still doesn't match the SNES version.

Unlike most of the other FFs I think the consensus for FF6 is to play the original SNES version

Some kind of creature with exposed flesh and bones because he got nuked by the crystal, he is basically fucked up but still alive because magic, he also has a giant dong.

>There is no reason to play FF4
According to you. I've replayed it more than once.

>he also has a giant dong.
Holy shit you're right, damn that's nasty.

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>Rydia is probably one of the toppest tier FF girls though
Good man.

16 according to WoFF

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>he also has a giant dong
the better to oviposit Rydia my dear

Im playing it right now and Im at that place with all the fucking trap doors than can just kill a party member in one turn

FUCK THIS PLACE

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Cast Reflect on whoever they're targeting.

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not that guy but i used Rydia's Bio to kill these fucking doors

PSP version is excellent.

>PSP version

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There are multiple ways to appreciate something.

I can play all of the FF games at any time

Fuck I even had fun with FF 1

I don't understand how people can't appreciate old games

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Are you retarded? After story aside, the base game remaster in the PSP version is perfect.

FFIV is my all time favorite FF game. No amount of Yea Forums shitposting will convince me otherwise. It's a product of its time, but in my eyes it's nearly perfect. It sums up the simplicity and wonder of when I was a kid when times were so much better than today.

>3dsfaggot

When I was little i didn't understand that so i just spammed attack+Cure2 potions until i won via damage.

I played through I on the GBA and the random encounters were a bit too common for my taste, so I could understand if someone didn't enjoy it. I'd like to play the PSP remake of II eventually to see if it's actually bad or just hearsay.

I would always recommend the original snes version of the games, with the translation patch for v obviously since it's japan only.
The GBA simply butchers the music, and no, no patch truly fixes it.

Some say the v fan translation is dry, but it's perfectly fine and doesn't have stupid pop culture references and humor like the gba localization which makes it the preferable version imo.

>not sword throwing+leviathan

Still an alright game. I miss this era of fantasy worlds

>Rydia
>that one girl that is missing for a big part of the game

She was alright, but fuck, characters are always changing. In the original game most of the characters are gone for good like Yang, those 2 twin brothers and "no homo" harp guy. Even forgot about Cid that "dies"

You know this is a 91 game, right? You couldnt expect jrpgs in early 90s to be like the middle or late 90s ones where the formula was more polished including the storytelling

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I am playing the DS version again.
Still pretty fun because this version has higher difficulty than most FFs

No, but it's not because of muh ATB. Fags complaining about that are little bitches. It's because the game's story, characters, and static classes make it overall a lame title. FFV shits all over it.

I'm not expecting The Odyssey from an snes game.
Storytelling existed for thousands of years before ffiv came out, being an early snes game doesn't excuse lazy writing that can be compared to Half life: Full Life Consequences.

The fantasy setting. I feel like, thematically, it goes back to its routes, shitty ending aside.

>FFV
Can't even remember that game, most forgettable FF.

Only if you a storytard. The job system is pretty hard to forget and still is the best FF had to offer in terms of gameplay systems.

Are you that guy from Memento? Maybe go to a doctor and get that blow to the head checked out.

>implying the best gameplay system wasn't FFX-2

High tier, but FFV is still the best one

Storyfag here, V's story is amazing and a centerpiece of Final Fantasy lore before Fabula Nova Crystalis came along and ruined everything. Also you're ugly and smell bad.

Probably because you aren't a zoomer who was raised on titles like FFX. Most of the userbase was around 5 years old when that game came out, so they're repulsed by the idea of anything older.

>Dumbest stories have best gameplay

Why the fuck can Square just not get both right

The job system was pure sex. Why anyone here can't appreciate jobs anymore is beyond me.

If I had to trade one for the other, I'd pick gameplay. I like a good story, but I'm willing to take FFV's simplistic story if it means I can get that delicious fucking job system. It was the same with Bravely Default. Story wise it could have been handled better, but my God I was enjoying all the experimentation. Fuck groundhog day though

>before Fabula Nova Crystalis came along and ruined everything. Also you're ugly and smell bad.
I've played all the games up through XIII save V and VI, forgot everything about XIII because it was dogshit, played I and II anniversary editions and did all the secret lore bonus dungeon stuff. The lore in my mind is totally fine, and I'll probably never buy another new SE game. I had hoped that KH would end with some grace, but 3 reinforced the idea that the company is completely dead. Can't wait to see how hard they rape the VII remake.

Unironically this is true, but man was the game's camp and plot too much to fucking handle.

>Why the fuck can Square just not get both right
I don't know man, I don't know.

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I only played the DS version and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Fuck The Moon though, that was one of the most nightmarish final dungeons I've ever experienced. I replayed it thinking that maybe I was just a dumbass kid who had to follow walkthroughs to even progress, but not it's still absolutely dreadful to go through.

Mutts do it again.

Yea Forums not playing games or sucking bad at them is not a meme.
The average Yea Forumstard today probably looks at FFV and immediately either goes to GameFAQ or grinds for 50 hours because they lost once or twice to Liquid Flame, and I am being generous assuming they get that far.
Of course after that they kill the gameplay completely and can only discuss story, that is where FFV didn't focus at all.

It's especially grating because FNC was built up as this thing that would serve as a shared mythology for Final Fantasy going forward like it was a new thing, meanwhile even though every single game before it was standalone and perfectly enjoyable on its own merits the franchise already HAD a shared mythology that unique and flexible enough to fit endless stories within it.
Bhunivelze ended up being a cool antagonist and all from what little I've seen of LR on YouTube, but it wasn't worth it displacing the Void for the sake of him. Now I'm just hoping against hope that Square Enix sanitizes everything and the next game is TRULY fresh,even if they have to make it a goddamn first person shooter in return.
They really should never have stretched XIII over for the better part of a decade. It didn't even really need sequels from a story standpoint, I feel.

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You can use Edge's Smoke ability to escape battles in the deepest parts of the dungeon

I honestly enjoy doing some light grinding in these kinds of games.
Leveling up, unlocking new skills and having a chill time, maybe while listening to something in the background while I grow up and develop my party has always been my favorite part of RPGs, gameplay wise. It's fun to accumulate power and see your party take shape in the way you want it to and in the process snowball completely out of the game's reach. Way I see it, the challenge should be there for the ones who don't want to do excessive preparations and would like to flow through the game in a more "natural" way

Attached: Galuf.jpg (1024x342, 47K)

XIII seems like the product of a new time where there's so many plot points running that people will naturally ask for some more info or closure. Just observing it lately in recent FF entries where we're getting stuff like X-2.5 book, all the XIII spinoffs and Class 0 for the Fal'cie junk and dragging Gilgamesh down, as well as the MMO getting lorebooks now and XV having all those side episodes and even external media to fill in the gaps. FFIV was a nice contained story, but modern SE and audiences somehow poked around at it and we had the disaster of TAY now forever marring an otherwise simple but clean story.

I think SE is going to keep banking on the longer storytelling method to milk as a business, instead of just trying to make a cohesive / enjoyable romp like they used to. FF7 Remake is another example of them planning to fit in tons of extra material to strewn the story out longer than needed.

yes

It makes me yearn for 2008 Yea Forums, and I never thought I'd say that. Back in the day you could easily discuss these kinds of games with anymore. Nowadays they seem to get nothing but scorn. Makes me kind of sad. I like a good story as much as the next guy, but this is a good fucking game, full of charm. I say this as someone who started playing FFV as late as 2005.

I only ever use guides because of missable stuff in jrpgs. I have a huge backlog of stuff and I don't want to replay an 80 hour game because I didn't talk to a certain character before an arbitrary timepoint.

>They really should never have stretched XIII over for the better part of a decade. It didn't even really need sequels from a story standpoint, I feel.
Tell that to the waifufag Toriyama.

>the disaster of TAY now forever marring an otherwise simple but clean story.
How bad was this? For some reason, after beating IV I just never had any motivation to play it and the interlude, even though I didn't know they were bad at the time. Is it FFX "NTR and exploding balls" level of bad?

>X-2.5

Shhhh, never happened, doesn't exist, I don't know what you're talking about

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FF2 remake had good music.

Honestly, stuff like The After Years doesn't bother me too much. It's far enough removed from the game that I feel I can safely ignore its existence if I don't agree with what it does, though I have to admit that the idea of the OTHER moon having a mad cunt in it as well was a funny plot twist to read about, just like how almost everybody that dies in IV isn't really dead. What really gives me pause is when you have stuff like XV where the entire first part of the game was removed and turned into a movie. And the movie ended up being the most enjoyable part of that whole mess, at that. Companion pieces that don't affect the main story at all but take place in the same world, or epilogues that explore what happens to characters in the distant future are stuff I can endure, and I won't be annoyed if the next one makes use of those, although I'd rather it didn't.
I get what you mean though, my two favorite games of the lot are V and IX, and V has a weird as hell movie from the 90s attached to it, meanwhile occasional I see anons saying they want a sequel/prequel/SOMETHING set in the same world as IX and I go "but for what purpose, there are no open threads to explore anymore".
Picture vaguely related, a far better Creator than TAY's one.

Attached: The Creator.png (320x288, 3K)

youtube.com/watch?v=KNpM8IAfPBA
It might be my favorite final dungeon theme, I think.

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>Hey there's some evil clone of Rydia going around fucking shit up
>let's re-enact most of the events from the original game and then go to the OTHER moon.
>it turns out the crystals were made by some ayyylmao scientist to experiment with evolution on various planets, and he collects the crystals and destroys the planets when he's done
>btw since the final dungeon rehashes a bunch of FF1-3, 5, and 6 bosses that implies he destroyed all those planets :^)

That's about all I remember about TAY's plot.

You can experience one of the greatest moments in all of video game history in this game if you grind hard enough.

in all honesty, FF4 is good but sadly FF5 and onwards is better, minus everything after X.

It was based on a novel years later that heavily focused on Rydia and Kain for the story, so it gets pretty close to "exploding blitzballs" levels of dumb.

Big bad is implied to wiped out all the other Nintendo-era FF worlds and has an army of Not-Rydia at his command to spam summons and mind fuck people. Game retreads the original point to point at times but with like 21 characters, since it can't decide what FF it wants to be at points. Cecil goes emo and his Dark Knight persona returns for no reason, while Kain ascends to a Holy Dragoon from Cecil's Dad of Light after he comes to terms with his split Dark Kain. Cecil's kid is Gohan and has super powers due to being like quarter Lunarian, and there's a constant battle between gameplay based on ingame time affecting moon phases that favor melee or magic. Also, Rydia gets to keep one of the Not-Rydia as a Mini-Me at the very end when God flips his shit chases the player through 30ish floors of a dungeon, since have to keep the maiden pure and not tied down to wacky Edge

The most redeemable thing it brought to the table was basically more FFIV, which rom hacks and BYOND offer for free.

say it with me kids

we don't. acknowledge. square products. that came. after. the original. game.

>is implied to wiped out all the other Nintendo-era FF worlds
I, admittedly, have not played After Years. But I'm not sure just how implied that thing is, because if I recall correctly the Creator in there is said to have, well, created the Crystals, which already puts him at odds with the rest of the franchise, where Crystals are born from the Void, as stated in III and V, and by association almost every other game.
If anything I'd call the fact that he has monsters from other final dungeons in his moon more of an easter egg than anything that's supposed to be taken as more serious than that.

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I was referring to these but Pandemonium was good:
youtube.com/watch?v=iFDxRV7yYz8
youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OP47tFdKw

I went and rebeat FF2 the other day - I looked up some strats to make the game more fun. Gotta say - agility really is the most broken stat. Once you get that evasion up via equipping nothing but a weapon + shield it becomes really hard to die later on and way easier to conserve MP since you get preemptive even in the boss fights. Just stick to the armors that don't restrict magic or evade later on. As for spells Fire, Ice, and to a lesser extent Bolt and Poison should be on all characters ASAP. Cure, Revive are both nice. I didn't bother leveling Esuna and just used items and with the high agility that worked out well. Buy ethers and put Osmose on Maria who should double as a black mage due to higher starting int - let Gus be your white mage with an axe. Berserk and Blink are the best buffs. Spam berserk late game once you get it + Osmose to regen MP on Maria. Everyone else just uses ethers and elixers (which you should easily have the funds to spam at the end of the game). Flare, Holy, and Ultima are all useless since you get them too late and nothing is weak to any of them - the other four attack spells are all necessary for certain bosses and enemies to defeat quickly since you can't do much damage to them otherwise. Don't bother with bows - even the best one at the end of the game is more useful for spamming Berserk with but by then you probably have Berserk at a higher level on Maria so it's still not as good as just using any other weapon dual wield once you have a high level in it + near max agility. The guest characters are all pretty good desu with agility taken into acct.

I didn't even bother beating my own characters up ever or spamming weapons/magic to level them up so my characters all had 1000 HP at best and only a 100 MP each. My one issue is despite all of this I wish the encounter was lower.

The first two sound silly and ignorable. Those last two are downright series ruining. Why do creators do shit like this?

This reads like fanfic.

>The revolving door full of unmemorable party members wasn't great. FF6 was much better in this regard
Other way around friend, FF6 had away more swinging revolving door

>This reads like fanfic.
It pretty much is fanfic. It's not like it was written by the original writer. I don't know why people don't demand higher quality fanfic from companies when they do shit like this.

I pity people like you who had to play the US version of the game

>there is no reason to play ff4
It's a solid classic you giant faggot. That is reason enough.

>I don't know why people don't demand higher quality fanfic from companies when they do shit like this.
Nips don't really give a shit about canon or quality of writing. For them, fanfic and other secondary works are pretty much as good as the original.

I probably replayed IV more times than any other FF title, and it's the greatest one if you just want a fun JRPG to pick and play without very much time commitment

>The revolving door full of unmemorable party members
>Cecil is pretty good if bland protag
These are both complaints I'd use against FFVI more than 4. There are so many rotating characters in VI barely any get actual character development or screen time, and Terra is 100x more bland than Cecil, so much so that almost every other character in her game, even though they got such shit development, is ultimately more interesting.

I think both Terra and Cecil are above average protagonists, honestly. You start play IV, and the first thing you notice is that you're playing a war criminal. Meanwhile, Terra skips the obvious what is love trope where you're just SURE she's going to fall in love with somebody, by going straight into motherhood. I'd say both of these make their character concepts fairly memorable when compared to, say, Bartz or Zidane. Hell, maybe even Tidus?

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>They aren't OP so therefore they're worthless
I constantly use abilities like Focus, Bluff and Cry when I got the chance and it makes sense, with your reasoning, casting slow on bosses is useless because you can just spam more heals instead to make up for it

hey old guys, your granpa games are terrible

play a good game like fortnite already

>>forced to position five (5) party members a particular way
What you on about, you can make Cecil a second white mage with a bow if you wanted to, or make Edge use moonring blade or other throwing weapons in his hands and put him on the back row, with some more gear that boosts his int for stronger ninjutsu, Kain can be put in front or back row depending if you like jump or attack more, Rydia can be a semi-decent whip user that paralyzes enemies, Rosa can be pretty good with the bow as well.

The difference is Cecil went on an actual path and interacted with things and people during it, Terra is basically a fucking mute that does nothing the entire game apart from maybe 2 important points during it. Celes has more development for fuck sake.

>Not just casting Stop on the door and wail away

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Yeah, I suppose Cecil felt as if he was constantly doing stuff through the story. He already has a lot of agency from the very beginning, when he goes and blows up Rydia's village like a chump.
For a lot of the game, Terra just feels like she's being held by the hand and dragged along by other characters. I don't think she gets much time to actually shine until she meets General Leo, and then the World of Ruin where her arc is great.

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Does that actually work?

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FF4 is probably my favorite FF, I should give The After Years a shot one day but I don't have a wii and my psp is kill
I played the GBA version last year after having only played the DS version, is it the GBA one that's easy or the DS one that's hard? The final dungeon in the GBA version felt like an endurance test and you just get stronger and go a little deeper every time, but in the DS version it's hell on earth (or the moon I guess) where even at higher levels everything can kick your ass back to earth without even trying, also all bosses have like twice as much health (especially Zeromus who goes from like 50k to 200k or something)

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user, TAY is on Steam as well. But like all the other anons said, be cautious when approaching it.
...Which actually surprises me, they made both a sprite-based AND a 3D based version of TAY ALONG with the base game? The hell was Square doing?

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FF4 has plot tied to gameplay mechanics and that's something that is too rare these days.
>You get a low level Rydia at the start and you need her magic to get through the first few enemies, which implies that Cecil and Rydia had to spend some time together before going forward
>Tellah has 90 MP and can't cast meteor naturally
>The whole redemption part for Cecil on the mount Ordeal
>Cecil go back to level 1 as a paladin
Too few games games actually use the gameplay to tell a story, that's why FF4 is still quite relevant today.

>best music
>good story and characters
>not a hallway simulator
>sidequests
>no anime shit

It's easily a top 3 FF

Yes

>>Tellah has 90 MP and can't cast meteor naturally
>he doesn't underflow his MP

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user every Final Fantasy game except maybe I is a hallway, they're just really, really wide ones
>no anime
Did you miss the character that is literally called Edge, and the little girl that suddenly comes back 16 years old and wearing a leotard

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Best FF story of the entire franchise.

>no anime shit

Cecil fucking wears lipstick and has bishie silver hair.

Attached: 45381852.png (1024x768, 242K)

>Edge
>Is an cocky Ninja that hits on the female party members, especially Rydia once he figures out Rosa is with Cecil
>Gets serious with Kain when Kain explains that they should strike him down if he gets mind controlled again
>Angry when faced against Rubicante who destroyed his homeland
It's LITERALLY just a name

Yes that game is raw and kino

Looks good still, honestly the gameplay can’t really be fucked up with time since it’s turnbased

Absolutely not.
There are literally no games in existence that aged more than pre-7 FFs

SOON...

Attached: PS5HDRem.jpg (495x250, 28K)

What is this

I miss the heroic final battle themes the older FF's had. IV and V are probably my favorite. They embodied the final confrontation and the struggle for a hopeful end to the conflict.
The final battle themes in VI and onward certainly feel more dire but also catered far more to the boss.

and then Locke and Edgar swoon over Terra doing magic like it's an animu comedy scene

I wonder... :)

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It always struck me as a fantasy cancer cell

I guess symbolizing the uncontrolled hatred growing inside him

Those little gameplay touches that tied into the story were really nice. Last game that I felt really tied gameplay and story together well was Automata.

>There are literally no games in existence that aged more than pre-7 FFs
OoT and Half Life both aged like milk.

>Instead of HD redrawn sprites and effects, it's awful 3D models that look generic like the Mana remake
Please no. Just give us nicely drawn 2D work.

yo nigga why would they remove that slick dragon from the logo? It was bad enough when they changed the title screen

Attached: final-fantasy-v-snes-title-1597.gif (256x224, 10K)

A
FUCKING
T R E E

Attached: 1407917022307.jpg (600x800, 55K)

none of the final fantasy games hold up

Wastes time, even on highest speed you still spend several seconds sitting around, unable to do anything, until your meter fills
More importantly: since your abilities have to be easily accessible during battle so as to not waste your time while trying to select them, the combat and types of skills you can have are greatly simplified

Twitch chat kiddies hating on anything that's non-american games and older than PubG, just go away

>trips for best tree

Nice.

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Been like 800 years since I have played 4, were any of Edge's ninja magic things good? I recall not being impressed by any of them, but that was ages ago as I said.

1 and 2 are in a collection together on psp, and on sale right now for 5 bucks, all ff are on sale and all classic ones are 5 dollars..

The elemental ones are pretty good to clear out big screens, and they're pretty decent damage-wise, being able to cast blink and paralyze is pretty great as well, but smoke is the most useful one arguably in the endgame dungeon as it's a escape spell

Not many people seem to know this but Cecil's and Ros'as teleport spell also works as a "escape battle" spell

Attached: BB.png (800x522, 428K)

what sidequests?

Adamant?

Edge is just the dude that tosses duped Excaliburs and uses Smoke

Are you talking about insta death from going through the same shop door 999 times or something like that?

Sylph Cave
Eidolon Cave
Odin
Bahamut's Lair

I mean, i guess, I dont consider them sidequests really

its kind of just " go here and fight this boss or do this dungeon"

youtube.com/watch?v=qaQ0fY91fvU

Play the superior PSP version

I guess it's just like Kefka's tower then "just go there and fight this boss"

hurr durr

I mean in the sense that you dont really do anything in the quests

ppsspp.org/

>not playing the superior nipponese PSP version on a first gen Vita with the OLED screen
You didn't experience the game correctly.

You do have to go to Yang's wife to get the frying pan to wake Yang up in order to get Sylph, Eidolon Cave is also the place you find the Rat Tail for Cecil's Weapon from the blacksmith

>next to no customization or controlled character growth

>babbies mad there is no way to break the gameplay by utilizing broken job abilities or max out stats to remove all challenge

Good gameplay > good difficulty > bad gameplay > bad difficulty

Ever since they changed the logo for IV DS, I always assumed they'd do it for the others. The tree for V (looks like I'm not the only one who thought that), and... I forgot the others. I'll just post this and reply to it when I remember. Might have been the warring triad for VI.

Played it through for the first time properly recently. Didn't mind it but it wasn't great. FFV is way better in my opinion and has aged as such.

A bad attempt at seriousness vs. A great attempt at whimsy

nigger Stop and Slow shut down almost every single boss in FF4.

Jokes on you, I never do that because I never figure that shit out. Breaking VIII with cards? Nope, just got Squall to 100 and everyone else in the 90s. V? Rapid Fire spellblades were the most broken thing I had, and it was only on one character. XII? Never even got to Yiazmat. VI? Played the GBA version and only got a small handful of the really good gear. Bravely Default? I just used the classes that were fun.

I stand by what I said.

>he didn't play the superior version

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>Stop
>Bosses

Congrats on being a brainlet then.

In games like this you have to study the equipment, stat system, and spells to find what's really good.

Like half the battle with FF2 is finding out that a shit ton of gear weakens your magic attack damage tremendously and that you should spam magic on any enemy that is actually weak to a specific element - you don't need to actually power level any of the magic in that game once you understand this and the evasion trick. That's what you gotta do here since a bunch of armor and weapons has hidden stat effects iirc.

I miss that games no longer have weapons that can be used for free spells. Made the games systems more fun. Really liked the setups you could do.

Then I accept your concession to .

Still uses the GBA version's localization as a base, which uses the PSX version's localization as a base, which got nearly as bad as the fan translation at times. It was touched up for the GBA and then the PSP versions, but it's still lacking. That aside, the PSP version is pretty nice unless you don't like the visual style, but it's not nearly as bad as the abominations that are the mobile and PC versions of FF V and VI.

Apple requires all apps to use Arial, I shit you not.

Actually, it was DS
Also kill yourself

>those 2 twin brothers
One of them was a girl, actually.

>why isn't it a shitty wrpg?

It's easier to grasp when you see his 3D model or the PSP sprite.

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>FF1-3 are WRPGs now

Attached: 1383798499305.jpg (1500x1250, 574K)

>FF1-3
>Where every character is a faceless, nameless avatar that you can just slap generic equipment on
>Better than 4 where the characters all play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world
Let me save you the trouble of your next retarded post by writing it out for you.
>B-But it's an rpg! All that matters is customization and REAL role playing!

TAY's core problem is the narrative split into chapters.
The game starts out strong with Ceodore's chapter, but then you're doing LITERAL filler as all the shitty side characters like Palom, Porom, Edward etc until the hype comes back in full gear in Kain's chapter and Lunarians (aka Golbez) Chapter and the game is great from there all the way till the end.
It's the entire middle portion with side-character filler chapters where you effectively just redo FF4 dungeons with a twist that sucks.

>II
>III
>V (especially V)
>VI
>VII
>VIII
>IX (kinda)
>X (especially X)
>Tactics series (especially these)
>XII
>maybe the MMOs and XIII?
>XV (kinda)
>all the current mobile games

>WRPGs

enjoy having no replay value due to having the exact same party every time, i guess

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I wouldn't even say it focuses on Rydia much at all, since all she does in the story is job out to everything even when its preposterous, and essentially play gotta catch em all. She pretty much got it worse than anyone else returning since they make her to be such a fucking joke, especially compared to her contemporaries in the story. Did they even explain why all the clones look like her to begin with? I don't think they ever did.

The story if anything focuses more on Golbez than anyone else.

Welcome to SE during that weird as period. This somehow wasn't even the stupidest thing they wrote at the time. SE's management has been dogshit for well over a decade.

LOLI HATE FIRE is low key one of the better subtle developments in the series. Its not something that happens out of nowhere, its something that they straight up tell you via gameplay as soon as you get her, yet it doesn't interfere with progression or make the game harder. You still can't help but notice something off though. Its something that I don't quite get why the series hasn't done again like that, closest I can think of is Garnet's PTSD but that actively interferes with playing.

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What controlled character growth happens in VII and VIII? What customization is there in IX? Why are you reaching so hard?

>Actually playing mobashit
Nevermind, nothing you say matters.

>Replay value over a well balanced and enjoyable experience!
Are you the kind of idiot that likes Dark Souls 2?

>LOLI HATE FIRE is low key one of the better subtle developments in the series. Its not something that happens out of nowhere, its something that they straight up tell you via gameplay as soon as you get her, yet it doesn't interfere with progression or make the game harder. You still can't help but notice something off though. Its something that I don't quite get why the series hasn't done again like that, closest I can think of is Garnet's PTSD but that actively interferes with playing.
The more I think back on the characterization tied into skills, the more I'm reminded of why I really like IV, and the more I think that people who want open ended customization are idiots.

>materia
>GFs
>abilities from equipment and which to use (which is why I said kinda)
Though I take it you concede on the others.

>b-but dark souls 2
1 and 3 and BB are the same with replayability. Even BotW has it with it's traversal.

>Replay value over a well balanced and enjoyable experience!

It's cute how you pretend those are mutually exclusive things.

>learning one spell during one scene
Wow, bravo. Only other thing that comes close is Tellah's lack of spells, but that's it. Everything else is the same slow, linear growth. At least the GBA remake let's you change up parties.

>things that can be swapped instantly at any time and aren't tied to a character's progression
>controlled character growth
Uh-oh, it looks like you're a fucking retard.

>Though I take it you concede on the others.
I just pointed out the most egregious stupidity in your post.

And it's adorable that you think blank canvas characters make for a better story experience than something like IV which tied character development into their usable skills as a way to reflect their changing personalities as part of combat. But please, by all means prove me wrong and give an example of how something like that was done with the same level of finesse in games that offered up fully open customization trees like X or XII.

>that one girl that is missing for a big part of the game
That also describes Porom.

>Only other thing that comes close is Tellah's lack of spells
Did you forget who the main character of the game is, or are you just going to say that it doesn't count because you said so?

>things that can be swapped instantly at any time and aren't tied to a character's progression
>controlled character growth
Indeed, we are both right. It's character growth. My Zidane is now stronger now that he's mastered this skill, and I have to divy up which to use due to limited points.

I accept your concession by the way.

My point still stands - not mention we're talking strictly skills and not jobs and the abilities it comes with. And Cecil still suffers from a lack of white magic or knight skills. Boy do I love spamming Attack.

>Indeed, we are both right. It's character growth. My Zidane
Okay, but I brought up VII and VIII. What controlled character growth is there when everything can be swapped on and off at any time? Why are you bringing up a character from IX, especially when that entire game's "growth" amounts to equipping armor and weapons in different orders to learn from a specific pool of skills for each character? It's hardly any different than just swapping equipment.

>I accept your concession by the way.
After deliberately avoiding the examples I specifically brought up? Why is it that everyone who talks like an "intellectual" from reddit is completely retarded?

>My point still stands
What? No it fucking doesn't. You completely ignored his class change tied to the story because you felt like it. You didn't make a point, you idiot.

>And Cecil still suffers from a lack of white magic or knight skills.
He has a moderate amount of white magic to augment his attacks, which is what his class is supposed to do. He also loses stuff like darkness, which damages himself to hurt enemies (a skill more befitting of a dark knight than a paladin). You're an idiot and you've made nothing even resembling a point.

>not mention we're talking strictly skills and not jobs and the abilities it comes with
>we're talking about skills
>but not jobs which directly determine skills
Great post.

Why the fuck are people comparing Terra with Cecil?

Cecil is a clear cut MC with a well-defined character arc during the game.

VI has an ensamble cast. Celes for instance is an as important character as Terra, and the VI story works for the most part even without Terra (you'd need some minor rewrites, but Terra isn't a crucial character like Cecil).

it is perfect for mobile.

>Why the fuck are people comparing Terra with Cecil?
Because in all of the compilation games or art when there's a representative MC, Terra always gets the lead spot.

Played it 15 years after release and thought at that time it was a top 10 game.

I understand why they do that, but it really unfair to other characters. Terra just isn't there for the entire Magetek Factory story segment (probably 1/3 of WoB), and then is completely optional in the second half of the game.

>I understand why they do that,
We all do. It's unfortunate but it is what it is.

I played the remake of this and 3 on the DS, I remember them both being enjoyable. They added voices cutscenes etc but the story is a bit generic. Don't remember 3 having much story but you could customise your party completely

>you have to acknowledge how works hold up over time.
Then every shit under the sun that isn't 3D will be considered garbage by today's graphics whores alone. What a pretentious, retarded notion. You're the reason why 'lel subverted your expection :P" is a tread nowadays, in every aspect.

these were the things that I really liked FF4 for. also losing Rosa everytime I would actually miss her because you lose her useful healing magic as well

>Literally how
Because it's nothing more than a bastardization of turn-based combat, by adding a real-time element that means you can get attacked during your turn, thus defeating the whole point of using a turn-based system. This artificial time pressure also means the optimal strategy in 99.9% of battles is to mindlessly mash the (auto-)attack button as fast as possible before enemies can get any hits in.

It's also incredibly slow. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands, and after they are executed, you have to wait again for them to fill before you can input new commands, over and over.

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>Tells the party how to deal with the Giant of Babil after their constant fucking up caused it to be resurrected.
>Bitchslaps Golbez back to normal.
>Kills angry moonman before you can even get to him, so they have to deus ex machina a hateghost so you can actually save the day in the end.

Fusoya is the true hero of FF4. Cecil a shit.

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>menu-driven combat, unfortunately, appears to have gone out of style.

Why the 'unfortunately'?

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>It's also incredibly slow. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed.
It's still infinitely faster than the combat in the DQ series.

>What is BD
To be fair, they botched the middle, but if they had taken a little more time with it, the story would have been perfect. Story quality and job inclusion don't have to be two different things. Even with job switching, BD still had maybe the most challenging late game of any JRPG I've played

He always reminded me of some H.R Giger painting that I saw in Giger’s Necronomicon art book that my dad had lying around his apartment when I was younger. Certainly didn’t do me any good when I was young fighting this thing.

>H.R Giger
Main inspiration for Zeromus so that's fine

But that's not true.

I know people hate Dissidia NT because it got rid of the casual cancer trash that was always ruining multiplayer PVP aka the real meat of the game, but you faggots can't deny that it has some really good fucking remixes (and just as many bad ones, sure) with Zeromus theme falling under the good ones:
youtube.com/watch?v=QXWublG2yN8

>It's still infinitely faster than the combat in the DQ series.
DQ combat being slow has nothing to do with it being pure turn-based, it's because of shit like slowly crawling text messages.

A better comparison would be other turn-based games.

Here is a random encounter in FF4
youtube.com/watch?v=oLgbqywWJcM

Here is a random encounter in Fallout
youtube.com/watch?v=RtN2fZhU2Ss

Despite your characters being massively overpowered, the random encounter in FF4 takes longer to complete than the random encounter in Fallout, which involves more than TWENTY combatants and which has a tactical combat system wheerein characters can move around.

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I hate Dissidia NT because I like 1v1 more and one fucking HP attack per character is unacceptable.

That problem is entirely on Dragon Quest. In shit like Etrian Odyssey you can blitz through an entire round of combat in seconds.

It's ok, riding a space whale to the moon was great and Rydia is super cute. Also GBA edition is superior in every possible way.

It' s better than 5.

It was late 2001 when I played IV for the first time on PS1 so I thought they looked similar but never made the connection until today, neat.

>and one fucking HP attack
Each character has 4 though, unless you mean equippable.
In which case you still have same amount of attacks because while there is only 1 equippable HP, you have 4 more brave attacks to compensate.

>-Shadow
>-Mog
>-Strago
>-Gogo
>-Umaro

You sure you weren' t talking about FF6?

Generally Zeromus feels like synthesis of Giger and Beksinski

I meant equippable, yes.
Also in PSP Dissidia you had:
3 ground HP attacks, 3 ground BRV attacks, 3 aerial HP attacks(which may or may not be the same as the ground ones) and 3 aerial BRV attacks(again, may or may not be the same).

>>-Shadow
Not temporary unless you're an idiot and don't wait for him.

>-Mog
He is only there for the tutorial, other than that he's a late-game SECRET character.

>-Gogo
>-Umaro
They straight up NEVER appear in the story and are both SECRET characters.

>-Strago
The only valid argument.

I just bought FF7, 8 and 9, did I fuck up? I played and liked FF1 to 4 so far.

>frog
I almost read your post. Almost.

Yes and in NT you have 3 ground and 3 air but they are always different, then you have 2 Rush Attacks (but there are variations, Zenos has 3), 1 EX Skill and 2 universal skills.
3+3+2+1+2 = 11
And all of them are unique and not copies, like vast majority of brave attacks in 012 which are shared between Air and Ground.

>why isn't it a shitty wrpg?

>FF1-3
>Where every character is a faceless, nameless avatar that you can just slap generic equipment on
>Better than 4 where the characters all play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world

Wrpgs tend to do the "play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world" thing better than Final Fantasy games though.

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how anyone can hate Dragon Quest and say they're a fan of JRPGs is mindboggling to me

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My point was about HP attacks mostly.
Also idk about NT but in 012 you have many BRV->HP attacks

>Wrpgs tend to do the "play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world" thing better than Final Fantasy games though.
Too bad the stories, worlds, characters and gameplay always suck.

8 is pretty meh due to level scaling and the junction system allows you to break the game way too easily, the other two games are good

People have different tastes.
I have tried getting into DQ myself but something about just doesn't get me like FF, I got far enough before dropping it.

Oh and some characters also have more than 1 EX and HP.
Vaan has 2 HP and Zenos has 3 EX.
And Vayne has 16 Brave attacks (all equipped at once), but only 1 Rush.

There are no BRV->HP instawin attacks cause that's broken as shit and not suitable for a competitive game, you need to set up your own situations but unlike 012 it's not an endless game of dodgelmao because dodge is a lot less effective, guard doesn't last forever and can be broken and getting someone into a wall rush guarantees you one HP attack unless you're a moron.

My point is that the total number of attacks didn't change and in some cases actually increased.
Many of attacks that were HP in 012 are still in NT, they just got turned into Brave attacks so it's not like they got removed.

>I like WRPGs
>So I'll carry a folder of bait images everyone recognizes
sasuga

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For me, it's loli Rydia.

Materia and GFs. Also recall how my first post also said customization. So IX falls under that, though being in control of their growth would still be fitting to call it such. And it's more than equipment, those passives are pretty major, especially as you get more and more. With IV, I can only change equipment with... nothing else. Only one of Cecil's weapons in the later versions has an additional attack that can proc.

And you're the one who avoids my own examples of the rest of the series.

And that's still only 3 characters, 2 of which actually change classes. Not sure if Edge learns anything.

>augment his attacks
Such as? Pretty sure it was only healing up to Cura and according to the wiki, Protect & Shell... in the 3D version. And again, my point still stands. I missed one character (and ironically you both forgot to call me out on Rydia becoming a summoner), but that doesn't invalidate anything else.

And yet, FFVI is considered as one of the best RPGs of all time, how comes?
Oh, right. Dark Sun is actually shit!

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>Materia and GFs
Which have literally nothing to do with controlled character growth. You are objectively wrong, and very stupid.

>Materia and GFs.
Materia and GFs are the OPPOSITE of normal RPG customization. They are functionally almost identical to equipment in that they can be freely swapped in and out at any time, How is this such a difficult concept to grasp for you?

>instawin attacks
A lot of characters without BRV->HP have much better HP attacks to compensate. Better range, better BRV damage before the HP hit, you name it.

The issue isn't total number of attacks btw. 012 had a much better balance between BRV and HP attacks, but I can agree the rest was fucked up. Fucking Exdeath in specific.

Popular =/= good
Not that user btw, I like FFVI more.

It's still customization, which I originally stated here . Hell, someone else claimed it was "controlled character growth" for VII and VIII specifically . They then proceed to shitpost repeatedly.

>change stats in addition to equipment, meaning there is more than a single layer of stat tuning
>gives abilities as well
As opposed to other games, where swapping equipment is 99% of the time just increasing stats.

I get that, but it was still very cheap and Onion Knight for example could literally infinite you with his BRV->HP so I'm glad that trash is gone, if you want some actually fucking GENUINE NT flaws from someone that actually plays the series since PSP and loves NT's more focused and competitive gameplay, here's some real fucking shit flaws:

1. Virtually non-existent single player:
Story is just 2 hours of cutscenes with 6 (genuinely cool) boss fights against summons, a Final Fantasy final boss as fuck fight against Shinryu and only like 10 regular character/manikin fights and that's in TOTAL shared between all characters
So while story length in terms of cutscenes is the same as Dissidia 1 and 012 (012's story was actually shorter than 1's in cutscene time, but it included 1's as a bonus to compensate), the amount of fights is very low.
The lack of SP content extends outside of story mode, as there is no other modes other than custom mode against bots (where you CAN 1 vs 1) and your generic fighting game "arcade" mode.

2. Soundtrack being 50/50 good and straight up shit, many of the remixes are absolutely fucking disgusting, case in point:
youtube.com/watch?v=azPfaUQ_7Tg
Like who the fuck asked for WUBWUBWUB Final Fantasy Main Theme?

3. You can't customize you Brave attack slots.
For example I wish I could change some of their inputs around (it pisses me off that Sephiroth's Hell's Gate requires backward input for example, I always had it on the forward input on PSP. Likewise same goes for Heaven's Light which requires forward input, but I always had it on backwards input on PSP.
Furthermore I wish I could for example just straight up unequip some Brave attacks that I don't like but end up accidentally popping off in the heat of battle instead of something else that I desired, this is especially a problem with Vayne who has 16 Brave Attacks equipped at once.

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>It's still customization
And so is swapping equipment. What's your point? You're trying to pretend that 8 characters that are functionally identical are better than 8 characters with defined roles in battle that tie into who they are in the story, and you argue like an ESL retard.

>remake of V
just play gba advanced one

>Popular =/= good
Okay, but sometimes there's a good reason of why a game is popular.
FFVI and Dark Sun is the literal example of Soul vs Soulless

They made Golbez pretty fucking based in Dissidia and he's become my favorite FF character solely from his role in those games

Attached: Golbez.jpg (660x1000, 94K)

No, no JRPG has ever held up

ugh, I can't say I was ever a fan of Amano's wispy art style

>As opposed to other games, where swapping equipment is 99% of the time just increasing stats.

Equipment granting access to spells is one of the oldest concepts in RPGs, and has been present in the series since the very first Final Fantasy.

finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Item_magic

>change stats
What, junctioning GF? But only as long as you have them equipped. That's the entire point, they are NOT permanent character building, it's a temporary boost, just like equipment.

Oh and how could I forget the most important:
4. Lack of dedicated 1 vs 1 competitive mode.
1 vs 1 (and 2 vs 2 and other custom combinations) are locked to Custom Games and basically nobody plays 1 vs 1 because the game isn't balanced for it.
Some characters are extreme hard counters to others which make winning in 1 vs 1 scenario against a hard counter virtually impossible if the other player knows what he's doing.
They should've had a separate dedicated 1 vs 1 competitive mode with different balancing set made for it.

I'd normally also list the broken netcode here as 5th con, but they FINALLY fixed it last month on PS4 and last week on PC.

>Okay, but sometimes there's a good reason of why a game is popular.
Games that appeal to the lowest common denominator tend to be more popular, yes. Or are you claiming that Fortnite is the best game of all time?

>FFVI and Dark Sun is the literal example of Soul vs Soulless
In what sense?

Okay dude, but all I am saying is that I didn't like NT because of your 4th point and 1 equipped HP attack.
BRV->HP links aren't exactly my favorite mechanic but one character being broken doesn't really tell us much. If you want a broken mechanic, look at Exdeath's unique counters.

Final Fantasy IV is the JRPG equivalent of Street Fighter II as far as I'm concerned.

the ds one does

Exdeath's bullshit got nerfed (as got Jecht's) in NT, obviously.
I still don't get your problem with 1 equipped HP attack though, because functionally literally nothing changes.
You've got more Brave Attacks to compensate and many of them are the old HP attacks, it's just that instead of doing HP damage they do Brave damage now.
How is that a problem for you?

As for lack of proper 1 vs 1, if it's any consolation, the director said that if Squeenix allows them to make NT 2 (I don't see why they wouldn't cause the game is making mad amount of money in Japanese arcades, Top 5 most popular fighting games in arcades), he wants to make a proper 1 vs 1 mode.

Glad to know you didn't read my post.

Materia also changes stats. Did you play VII? Your wiki is also just using the items instead of granting them to the characters. Once you unequip them, you can't use them like that unless you re-quip them in IV (which I believe did not take a turn, but still can take up some time if you decide to do that).

>junctioning GF
And again that is another layer of stat adjustment. Which is also a tad more complex than simply changing equipment.

I really dislike VI but I had higher expectations for VI than IV. VI is probably the more impressive game even though I didn't like a single character in the entire game. IV is like milquetoast, it's generic fantasy. Go play Dragon Quest XI if you want to play a modern version of FFIV.

>Exdeath's bullshit got nerfed (as got Jecht's) in NT
Yeah, I saw that - was talking about 012.

>NT 2 with proper 1v1
That should work for me.
Also yes, I do value having more ways to do HP damage, it's not really the attacks itself.
Hope it will be just 012 but balanced.

Cute but easy as fuck

>Materia also changes stats. Did you play VII?
I did. The stat changes are so minor that I forgot they existed. Even the wiki agrees:

>Materia can be used when slotted into a weapon or a piece of armor. Once slotted into an equipment piece the wearer can call upon the Materia's powers. Using Materia has both pros and cons. Depending on the type and strength of the Materia equipped, some stats may be lowered or enhanced. As an example, the Restore Materia picked up in Sector 1 Reactor at the beginning of the game reduces maximum HP by two percent and Strength by one, but raises maximum MP by two percent and Magic by one. However, in practice the effect is negligible.

>in practice the effect is negligible

>Your wiki is also just using the items instead of granting them to the characters. Once you unequip them, you can't use them
So? That's EXACTLY how junctioning and Materia works: you can't use the ability unless you have it junctioned or the matria equipped.

>Also yes, I do value having more ways to do HP damage, it's not really the attacks itself.
Well, you could play some of the characters that have HP-damage dealing EX attacks.
For example Kain's Jump deals HP damage, Zenos' ultimate EX does HP damage and gives you invincibility frames for the entire duration from the second you connect with enemy and whatnot.
The reason why there isn't more ways to deal HP damage is because of the 3 vs 3 gameplay.
It would be hard to see all types of HP attacks coming and recognize them in 3 vs 3 fights.
Don't get me wrong, I miss having more than 1 equipped myself, but I understand why they did it.

>Glad to know you didn't read my post.
Where you try to backpedal and generalize by broadening your search to "as long as it has any more customization it's better even if it detracts from how gameplay ties to story and dilutes how unique each character is"? I read the post, but it didn't make your attempt at an argument any less stupid. Controlled character growth can be great, but pretending that customization is the end all be all in an rpg is stupid, no matter how much you want to cite where the genre spawned from and how tabletop games work.

>The reason why there isn't more ways to deal HP damage is because of the 3 vs 3 gameplay.
>It would be hard to see all types of HP attacks coming and recognize them in 3 vs 3 fights.
>Don't get me wrong, I miss having more than 1 equipped myself, but I understand why they did it.
I mean I know that, but doesn't mean I like it.
Here's hoping NT 2 goes back to 1v1 or just allows both gameplays at once I guess.

ff1, ff5, ff6 all hold up though

>but doesn't mean I like it
But that's my point, I don't like it either but it's not a major enough thing to make me not enjoy the game.
And I fully hope that NT2 has proper 1 vs 1 and better offline/single player modes but I sure as fuck hope the casual shit like items never fucking returns since it has no place in a competitive fighting game.

>Too bad the stories, worlds, characters and gameplay always suck.
How so? As that image highlights, the game mechanics in Final Fantasy games tend to be largely at odds with the narrative, whereas wrpgs tend to do a much better job of integrating narrative into gameplay to create a more cohesive experience/

Games are an interactive medium. If a game opts to tell a story, it needs to be reinforced through gameplay on some level. Without that, all you're left with is a potentially good movie story, not a good video game story.Though Final Fantasy games certainly doesn't qualify as either, with how atrocious the plotting, dialogue and voice acting are.

Also, way to arbitrarily move the goalposts. You went from "pre-defined characters are better than customizable characters" to "everything about wrpgs is shit".

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>casual shit like items never fucking returns since it has no place in a competitive fighting game
If they want to make everyone happy they can just make multiple rulesets including one with items.

Neglible early on and with only one or two equipped, but there's a difference later on.

>backpedal
It was my very first post. Nice try, though. And now you're putting words into my mouth - you're the only one talking about dilution and tabletop games. None of (My) posts had that.

You do know IV DS had some character customization/custom growth as well, right? Hell, they could tack on all kinds of things from the series or any RPG and still tie spells and abilities with story progression. Even fucking XV does it (new weapons for Noctis & the ring vs. ascension grid). And that's JUST sticking with FF, let alone other series.

And a reminder that while you're all going on about VII, VIII, and IX, there's still the rest of the games that I listed earlier.

That's fine as long as it's not the main MP gamemode, that's my concern.
It was already bad in 1 and 012 where you had to agree with other players on no-items rooms and it was annoying as shit.

Also I find it hilarious how the community genuinely doesn't know what it wants.
Dissidia 1 comes out:
Why can we only play as 1 character when the cutscenes show more than 1 fighting at a time?
Devs listen and adds Assists in 012:
Why are there only Assists instead of just letting us play with multiple characters in a match?
Devs listen and make NT into 3 vs 3:
Why isn't the game 1 vs 1?

Something something faster horses.

If WRPGs are so great, why doesn't anyone remember them, and why don't they make them any more? Maybe because all those noodly mechanics that were plucked from D&D don't actually amount to anything.

>Also, way to arbitrarily move the goalposts.
You said wrpgs do X aspect better. I said jrpgs do A, B and C better. What goalposts were moved? Be very specific in showing where I said my entire stance was "pre-defined characters are better than customizable characters" and show that you aren't just a fucking retard who spouts phrases they don't understand.

> whereas wrpgs tend to do a much better job of integrating narrative into gameplay to create a more cohesive experience/
Your posts are worthless in terms of trying to discuss rpgs, but at least they have some comedic value.

>It was my very first post. Nice try, though.
You brought up a couple things, people pointed out exactly how some of those things didn't apply to games on the list, and then you tried talking circles around that instead of immediately saying "Well I only meant that one of those two things had to apply" and then discussing how the presence of just one of those two thins makes a game good. You're an idiot.

>If WRPGs are so great, why doesn't anyone remember them, and why don't they make them any more? Maybe because all those noodly mechanics that were plucked from D&D don't actually amount to anything.
Sure...if you ignore the fact that pretty much every thing people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, DQ and SMT was copied from western rpgs: the party-based combat system right down to specific spells and classes/jobs, the overworld, even the tradition of getting an airship, heck, even specific game mechanics like alignment and demon negotiation in SMT.

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Reading that I feel the right solution would just be in-battle switching.
It's still 1v1 but you have a 3-characters party.

No, I meant both. Because I said both. (You) called it controlled growth specifically.
>how the prescence of just one of those two things makes a game good
You're doing the thing again. Words into my mouth. I'll put my dick in your mouth if you don't wise up.

>the genre started out as borrowing these mechanics from wrpgs
How does that contradict what user said?

And yet most WRPGS are dogshit. Chrono Trigger is still unmatched

>You said wrpgs do X aspect better. I said jrpgs do A, B and C better. What goalposts were moved?

>discussion is about X
>start randomly talking about A, B and C because can't come up with any actual rebuttal or counter-argument to person's last argument on X
>what goal posts? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Be very specific in showing where I said my entire stance was "pre-defined characters are better than customizable characters"

Posts (which were presumably made by you)
>why isn't it a shitty wrpg?

>FF1-3
>Where every character is a faceless, nameless avatar that you can just slap generic equipment on
>Better than 4 where the characters all play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world

Problem is how would that work ingame without grinding to a halt for transition between characters?
And if it's instant, how do you balance that to prevent exploits and infinites?
It's a tough can of worms.

>No, I meant both. Because I said both.
But the games you listed don't have both, you fucking idiot.

>Words into my mouth.
I'm not putting words into your mouth at all. Those are literally the two things you've been arguing are most important in an rpg. Do you not have any grasp of English? Why are ESLfags always absolute retards?

Some bar that fills with time and is resetted every time you switch?
Or maybe based on damage given/taken if you want to avoid camping to switch characters.

>start randomly talking about A, B and C
>talking about how gameplay ties into story
>user brings up gameplay and story/characters
>these are now random, unrelated things
Good effort. You might actually trick someone into thinking you made a real point because of how much greentext you're using per post. Go ahead and explain how bringing up gameplay, characters and story are random when discussing (in your own words) "play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world".

So what you're saying is JRPGs took the good stuff and trimmed the fat that WRPGs couldn't, which is why they survived and WRPGs lay dead and buried.

>How does that contradict what user said?
That user said those mechanics are shit. If that's the case, why are jrpgs still using them to this day?

I mean, fuck if I know, I'm not a designer so I'm not good at coming up with solutions.
Generally my point was that communtiy just doens't know what it wants.

>The revolving door full of unmemorable party members wasn't great. FF6 was much better in that regard.
did you reverse this statement by accident? every character in 4 either gets a decently fleshed out arc about them or is directly connected to the plot but in 6 you pick up dime a dozen party members with 0 plot relevence like a community service detainee picks up used condoms in high school parking lots

I said "or". Really, I should have said "and/or" since some of them do have both. But then you go and cherry pick, focusing on semantics instead of arguing against my point.

And you're still doing it. Feel free to point out where I stated or even implied anything like what you're saying. Otherwise, open wide!

>That user said those mechanics are shit.
No, he said that having the mechanics doesn't amount to anything, and he's right. Having the mechanics doesn't mean anything. Their implementation and how they play off each other is. It's like how you can't say that something is good or bad by virtue of having a real time or turn based combat system.

go play ffxiii which is the logical conclusion to the active time battle system. If you hate 13's combat you hate atb since it just takes it to the last stage and simplifies the already simple and mundane things about atb

I can't speak for the community but in-battle switching with some kind of limit to avoid abuse is fine.
I'd make a system where the 3 characters also have different roles, such as the white mage character restoring a bit of HP to the next character you switch them out for, balanced by having some limit on their abilities or stats yet still having to deal/take damage to switch out.

Not what I said but good try bucko, gold star. I said all those individually weak mechanics such as pickpocketting and summoning fucking rats don't amount to making a WRPG good. You know. Like those things that JRPGs have trimmed out for being useless. Never said things like party mechanics, elemental weaknesses, or exploration, etc were shit.

>But then you go and cherry pick, focusing on semantics
>You argued what I said by picking out some of the things I listed and explaining how the things I said don't apply and I should have worded it differently
Why do you keep using words you don't understand?

>Otherwise, open wide!
Actually, the real question is why am I responding to an ESL subhuman who thinks he's a lot more clever than he actually is? The answer is "It's not worth it."

>start randomly talking about A, B and C
>talking about how gameplay ties into story
>user brings up gameplay and story/characters
>these are now random, unrelated things

>Go ahead and explain how bringing up gameplay, characters and story are random when discussing (in your own words) "play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world".

If you're so interested in furthring this discussion, then why have you yet to address that image> That image highlights the fact that in wrpgs, characters that are of a certain class or profession, have a plethora of game mechanics to convey their identity. By contrast, this is almost non-existent in Final Fantasy, where you can have a character that the narrative insists is a 'summoner' despite the game mechanics having nothing to do with summoning.

Answer this question
>explain how bringing up gameplay, characters and story are random when discussing (in your own words) "play uniquely and have their own role tied to their actual position in the world".
directly.

ff 6 has held up best of them all

>explain how bringing up gameplay, characters and story are random
Because you didn't make any sort of concrete argument. You just said:

>Too bad the stories, worlds, characters and gameplay always suck.

This is literally saying "wrpgs suck at everything". How is that a concrete argument that relates to pre-defined characters vs customizeable characters? How can anyone even address that?

>Persona 5
>everyone still taking this bait

>Because you didn't make any sort of concrete argument
That doesn't make them random, it just means I didn't go in depth about them. Explain how those aspects are random. You still haven't done that.

Stop deflecting to "yuh ESL" if you can't form a counter argument.

You try to argue with one phrase out of the two I mentioned, with only 3 games out of the entire list, and still have to revert back to "but equipment" when I also tackle that one as well. As well as trying to focus on a single character I forgot about (Cecil - while ironically forgetting to remind me about Rydia's further developments when you could have included her as well), instead of focusing on the topic.

>forget about the main character of the game the thread is about
>expect to be taken seriously
>"Listen to how smart and logical I am!"

>Not what I said but good try bucko, gold star. I said all those individually weak mechanics such as pickpocketting and summoning fucking rats don't amount to making a WRPG good. You know. Like those things that JRPGs have trimmed out for being useless.

So having more interesting tactical options like summoning spells is useless?

Then explain the following to me: When DMCV was released, everyone and their mother was ecstatic because of the character of V, because his playstyle suggested the inclusion of a summoner class in Dragon's Dogma 2.

So according to you, jrpgs are more popular because they jettisoned supposedly useless stuff.

Yet when a jrpg suddenly re-implements that stuff, it's suddenly OMG BEST GAME EVER.

How does that work?

>reddit spacing
>complete retard
Every time.

>cherry picking again and zeroing in on one thing instead of the topic of discussion
You have nothing.

>That doesn't make them random, it just means I didn't go in depth about them.
And until you do, they will remain random. The burden of proof is on you to explain what you mean. I can't possibly know what you mean since your 'argument' consists of nothing more than a bunch of random words thrown together.

The fact that you're continuing this charade tells me you still can't come up with any sort of counter-argument, and you tacitly agree with me.

Gen Alpha gets to be raised on Youtube videos like Elsa and Spider-Man so it could be worse.

>And until you do, they will remain random.
That's not what the word random means. Objectively. On any level. You're looking for the word unsubstantiated. You should stop using words you don't understand. Spouting words you don't understand and quoting reddit's favorite "logical fallacies" and argument rules doesn't make you sound smart or logical, it just makes you look like a retard.

>So what you're saying is JRPGs took the good stuff and trimmed the fat that WRPGs couldn't, which is why they survived and WRPGs lay dead and buried.

>dumbed down exploration, going from non-linear freeform experiences to completely on rails cinematic stories
>dumbed down combat, going from tactical turn-based systems to simplistic menu-based systems with real-time gimmicks like the QTE's in Mario RPGs or the ATB system
>dumbed down character building, going from character creation to pre-defined characters with little room for customization

>took the good stuff

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But no one pretends that FFX is better than FFVI except for retards.

>other than that he's a late-game SECRET character.
You can get him the moment you get your first airship, it's barely a quarter through the game.

I could've sworn Mog is only accessible in WoR, granted it's been over a decade since I last played FF6.

Definitely not. You can get him in WoB, and then you can get him again in WoR.

My bad then, he's still a secret character though.

>Twins survive the petrification
>Yang survives the room explosion
>Cid survives A FUCKING NUKE exploding on his face and then the fall from the airship
>Best grandpa dies from casting a spell that costs more mp than he has

I'm still mad.

Attached: Tellah.jpg (1000x753, 125K)

Almost the entire cast of FFVI are unmemorable.

>Dumbed down exploration
Xenoblade, Skies of Arcadia, FFXII, Etrian Odyssey, Grandia, Wild Arms, and Ni No Kuni all wipe their ass with the endless zombie or bandit caves of WRPGs
>Combat
Literally what WRPGS do worst, JRPGS have pushed battle mechanics further than the "do I hit with weapon or magic" that every WRPG boils down to.
>Character Building
Anything from SMT to Etrian Odyssey to fucking Pokemon has better and more diverse party building mechanics than the "I have gained +1 damage to two handed swords" bullshit that WRPGs have

But keep going, it's fun seeing WRPG-user's world crashing around him

>all wipe their ass with the endless zombie or bandit caves of WRPGs
But bandit hideouts, drauger caves, and elven ruins that all look the same!

Wish I remembered jack shit about this game other than endless characters coming and going and some dude being on the moon.
Becoming a paladin sticks out I guess but the plot is totally unmemorable.

"Hi, I'm a grown up riding a dragon now" was pretty fucking great.

Oh yeah this is Rydia's game. She stopped being a loli after you punch Leviathan or something?
What a waste.

I still replay FFIV from time to time. Speaking of FFIV, there's suppose to be a new Golbez in FFBE after the current Xenogear collab.

>What a waste.
What?

>Xenoblade, Skies of Arcadia, FFXII, Etrian Odyssey, Grandia, Wild Arms, and Ni No Kuni all wipe their ass with the endless zombie or bandit caves of WRPGs

>tries to refute the claim that jrpgs are not linear
>lists a bunch of jrpgs that are ether completely on rails or even worse, single-player mmos (e.g. ff12 and xenoblade)

The game that best demonstrates how badly designed traditional jrpg exploration is Skies of Arcadia, where you have an airship from the start, but the fucking sky is somehow shaped like a corridor and the game progresses in a linear fashion.

Also, endless what? The genre that is most guilty of repetitive content are jrpgs, which still use the random encounter mechanic to this day.

>Literally what WRPGS do worst, JRPGS have pushed battle mechanics further than the "do I hit with weapon or magic" that every WRPG boils down to.

>jrpg gamplay
>you kill the enemy in direct combat
>no way to utilize the environment since they still use random encounters that teleport you to a separate battle screen
>99.99% of combat consists of random encounters that you can mindlessly auto-attack your way through
>only the remaining 00.01%, which are boss fights, provides any modicum of challenge, and not for any good reason, but because bosses are HP sponges with a billion hit points that arbitrarily immune to status effects, rendering a large part of your arsenal useless

>wrpg gameplay
>combat takes into account positioning, range, line of sight, friendly fire and other environmental factors
>besides killing enemies in direct combat, a wide variety of non-direct approaches are possible: such as creating environmental hazards, laying traps, the use of stealth and camouflage, summoning creatures to your aid, etc.
>bosses are not arbitrarily immune to status effects

>lists a bunch of jrpgs that are ether completely on rails or even worse, single-player mmos
Do you didn't play WA or NnK.

Fuck you I'm playing one right now for the Swtich

>argumentum ad populum

4 and 6 are the only ones I will play.

the worst ones lmao

>the worst ones lmao

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I always thought the area under the blue dots in the front was supposed to be his face. You can make out eyes, a long nose and chin.

It is, that's why I mentioned the 3D model from the DS remake.
Apologies for shit quality but I just grabbed this from jewgle.

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you're those people who go to the options and change it so you can't get attacked while in a menu aren't you.
oursun-mydisgust.jpg

CT is an exception, simply because the combat becomes fast as fuck and almost invariably pathetically easy. CT wasn't good because of the combat, it was good because the story/presentation/art/music was all god tier and complemented each other perfectly to produce just a plain good experience. Mashing A to auto-attack through 99% of the game is dogshit though.

Final Fantasy II had a better story than this one

SNES 4 is a weak game that tried to one up DQ4.
The 3D version is string though.

Final Fantasy II has a better story than half the franchise, and it isn't even good. The last three single player games didn't even finish their rough draft, X barely strung together a narrative because everyone was busy fleshing out Tidus and writing backstory, and most of IX is a weird narrative black hole where a well developed intro enters and a proper ending leaves with nothing in between.

It's not just SNES that's bad, this extends to GBA and PSP as well since they use the same EasyType base from SNES version.
So even though GBA added extra content and PSP added much better visuals, it still plays like the SNES one aka like shit.
3D IV fixed everything as far as gameplay goes and is very worth recommending.
Interlude in PSP version is harmless and fun addition and TAY on PSP is just the Wii original with much better visuals so again it's fine.

3D TAY didn't change gameplay much so it's not an objective improvement like 3D IV was, but it has some QoL improvements such as drastically redesigning final dungeon to be a lot less cancerous (on Wii/PSP it has like 160 floors that REALLY get annoying) and replacing the bosses from other FF games (1-6) with more FF4-world themed ones.
The only other change is removing the random generated dungeons (with random loot) at the end of each character's separate chapter, the only reason why this existed on Wii was to give people something to do while waiting for the next "episode" to come out, since it was episodic release on WiiWare, that's why the game is split into chapters.

3D version is shit. You're a retarded faggot.

I wad just generalizing as there's no definitive 2D 4. There's no good translation of non-Easytype and, like you said, the ports are a bit fucky. I also hate PSP's art because the level of detail and asset resolution is inconsistent as hell.

The only thing shit about 3D is the visuals, user. The game is better balanced with options to cheese if you please ala 5 and conveys its story more effectively.

The mobile/Steam ports still disappoint me. The bosses are extremely detailed while the characters all look like they came from someone's first Flash game. The menus belong in RPG maker, and while Amano's artwork is great on its own, it doesn't work in-game. Worst part is that this is the only English accessible version of FFV that doesn't butcher the audio.

>no counterarguments
>just ad hominem
To put it in your own terms, kill yourself faggot.

>because the level of detail and asset resolution is inconsistent as hell
Can you name an example?
I finished replaying PSP IV yesterday on my OLED Vita and found it looking consistently great.

>no counterarguments
>just ad hominem
If you were going for a parody post of what a retarded redditor with no self awareness sounds like, you fucking nailed it.

(You)

DS version is really fun with how much they amped the difficulty and made the beautiful transition to 3d, but the constant party fuckery really bogs it down. I won't even acknowledge the cardboard characters and comical story. So yeah, sure. It's one of the only mainline FFs that actually require you to pull out a good thinking cap.

>but the constant party fuckery really bogs it down
Not the fault of DS, that's a problem with FF4's plot in general and all versions have this "revolving door" of party members.

>Can you name an example?
Pic related. I PSP had a similar issue while II thankfully avoided it for the most part. Every element (UI, background, portraits, enemy sprites, player sprites) has a different baseline level of detail that they're displayed in. Then between various assets these can fluctuate from that baseline, creating even more variation in detail. This ends up making the game look cheap, as they couldn't be assed with making the assets consistent.

Attached: 158745-Final_Fantasy_IV_-_Complete_Collection_(USA)-2.jpg (1024x580, 171K)

What am I supposed to be seeing in this screenshot of yours? I don't see a problem.

It doesn't change that ATB slows the pace of the combat down to a crawl. It makes FF the least fun to play turn based series.

Learn your fallacies retard. If that WRPG format stood the test of time, they'd still be around today wouldn't they? Advancements in game design and technology have allowed us to move past that garbage. Meanwhile, JRPGs continue to thrive and improve.

Second example, some assets are just rendered in different styles outright. The Moonmaiden sword is rendered in less detail than the Dark Sage's staff, using black outlines for part of the sword and less color gradient than the main sprite and the sage.

Shit like this is all over IV PSP.

Attached: 158745-Final_Fantasy_IV_-_Complete_Collection_(USA)-3.jpg (1024x580, 165K)

Oh yeah I was just referring to 4 in general with that. I should have made it clearer as in that the revolving door character problem is of course there but the DS version made the game much more fun with the difficulty and all that I consider it the definitive version.

I literally don't see the shit you mention, I think you're just autistic

And the funny thing is that the games on the left are bad and the games on the right are good.

Congratz on proving you didn't play a single game I listed. In the majority of the games I listed autoattacking through combat WILL get you killed. Meanwhile all those useless options come up in your WRPGs again. None of the things you listed are optimal playstyles compared to just strafing backwards and shooting or swinging. They're ill-thought out vestigal features that are nothing more than traps, which is why they've been weeded out over time.

>turn based rpg

nope, it's shit

If you don't notice that Rydia's portrait, the Goblins and the Maralith are all rendered in different pixel-per-inch ratios where they were consistent in prior versions, you either need glasses or don't care much about visual presentation.

Another example. This is what the game *should* look like and occasionally does, with the enemy assets being at the appropriate resolution instead of getting lazily upscaled and touched up. See how the pixels aren't blatantly obvious and it blends with the UI? That's how every enemy worked in prior versions.

Attached: 9scfpcH.jpg (600x570, 128K)

>I think you're just autistic
I think you're on to something. The only bad thing I see there is ugly font, and the Japanese version looked fine.

>strafing backwards and shooting or swinging
>optimal playstyle

uh, not all CRPGs are like Diablo, sweetie

I'd say it's solid. It had some interesting characters - Kain, Rydia, Pallom/Porum, Rubicant. Edge's parents still fuck me up when I think about it. The futuristic settings were done well. The moon arc was really cool. Still one of my favorites even though objectively I'd say FFVI is better.

If I was Cecil I would have taken Rydia as my wife instead of Rosa.

Attached: __cecil_harvey_and_rydia_final_fantasy_iv_and_etc_drawn_by_yasakani_an__c0af3cac5593f8fda120b4ee5339 (800x566, 174K)

Again, to me they all look consistent, I suggest psychiatric checkup on your part.

top soul
bottom soulless

>JRPGs
>Good gameplay

>JRPGs
>Good story

Can anyone redpill me on these memes? Where do they come from originally?

bottom should have just made the numbers smaller so it doesnt look like a playschool game other than that its fine

There appears to be nothing wrong with the game's visuals themselves. If these are your own emulator screenshots then you are running the game in wrong res. PSP has a screen of 480x272.
You look at them in the correct resolution and everything will look crisp.

4 set the stage for what final fantasy games should aspire to.

5*
the only reason why 4 would set the stage is because it sold like shit and prevented FFV from being localized

I think you need an optometrist if you think a properly rescaled and explored piece of art like
looks the same as this pixelated GBA touchup moth. Caring that the art assets are at least consistent isn't autism, it's giving a shit about quality control.

have you seen how cool Dark Cecil and Kain look? the game will always hold up for those menu faces

From the 90s when the japs actually cared about the product. Now they can add huge tits on things, sell a couple copies and call it a day

Autism speaks

he has some pretty fucked proportions in the Dissidia game

Forgot my pic.

Not my shots, and this is a matter of internal consistency. You can see it in the game yourself, they didn't have a consistent upscaling process so assets on screen at the same time have different native resolutions and are scaled to fit.

Attached: moth.jpg (1280x720, 81K)

rydia and golbez is memorable

Fuck off with your retarded nostalgiafaggotry.
The After Years and remakes use the original artwork that the first sprites were based off on. It was exactly the treatment the game needed.

You can look at the remakes of FFV and VI for examples of what happens when only sprites are used instead for higher resolution assets, and the difference is huge.

Attached: finalfantasy4_cc_arv_04.jpg (480x272, 173K)

>The revolving door full of unmemorable party members
Every cast member in IV is memorable, you meant to talk about VI

god I want to fuck Rydia

Attached: Rydia.png (32x48, 491)

I love 5 too but I really think 4 set up all the stuff for future games to improve on.

All the sprites are in native resolution. UI elements like text use higher resolution font and get anti-aliased as a result.
That's exactly how it's supposed to go. If you saw something wrong with the visuals of the game then you didn't play on original PSP.

Attached: FF4PSP_TAY_Enemy_Ability_Regenerate.png (480x272, 135K)

TAY was great though

I've only played Grandia and Ni No Kuni, but how do they have good exploration? They're mostly linear adventures? Compared to open-world WRPGs (Fallout 1, etc) where you go around where you want.

yeah I agree, IV had the first 'epic' story.

I really liked the more dangerous, old-world, mysterious vibe of I though.

Maybe, but V was the game that took advantage of all those things and gave you true freedom of gameplay to set them up.

>Nostalgiafaggotry
>Poster said the 2D version of IV is inferior to the 3D version and that the PSP version has great sprites, but several sprites weren't touched up to the same degree of quality.
What did user mean by this?

Attached: 1537073153881.png (1280x1279, 249K)

>TAY was great though
Fanfic written 20 years later is not good.

>Ni No Kuni, but how do they have good exploration?
You mean the game where as the game progresses, you're allowed to explore more and more parts of the map as time goes on and can do side content as you please? Why do people pretend that having areas you have to go to in order to progress the story is bad, and that the only way to do exploration is to start the player in the middle of a completely open world where everything looks and feels the same?

The PSP version is still the best FF game so yes

Why do you keep posting the excellent boss sprites when my examples were all normal enemies? I even said that sprites like that one are the way the whole game should look.

>fanfic
>written by the original writer
>made by the original team
>fanfic
Just admit you didn't play it user, you're embarrassing yourself.

I didn't say it was good, I said it was great.

Attached: Final Fantasy IV (6).jpg (1920x1080, 955K)

>looks the same as this pixelated GBA touchup moth
what did he mean by this

Probably that you should check the reply
and notice that sprite has visible pixels throughout while the better enemy sprites have proper gradients and less pixelation.

What did he mean by this

That you've resorted to shitposting due to having no counterargument.

>written by the original writer
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/時田貴司
You mean this guy here who directed and wrote the original game that was only a producer but not a director or writer for TAY?

what did he mean by this

V was the game literally no Final Fantasy tried to emulate again until FFX-2.

What, is there supposed to be something wrong with the goblins?

Attached: final_fantasy_iv_the_complete_collection_image30.jpg (480x272, 82K)

It's the go to when you say mean things about new(er) game.

They're talking about the remade spritework. user got called a nostalgiafag because he said the low-res low-color one is better. The new one is based on the same artwork the original sprite was as well so it would turn out much better in quality.

Okay, look at those two mobs.
Now look at
Or
Notice how those sprites have soft shading, barely any stray pixels, etc? That's what you should be noticing. It's like the difference between Secret and Legend of Mana.

Tactics has a similar thing going on with the combat.

>user got called a nostalgiafag because he said the low-res low-color one is better.
No, user said that all three in the bomb comparison were consistent while other enemy sprites in PSP often weren't. That isn't "old good," that's "Why the fuck is some of new half-old?"

Espers/Materia/The Sphere Grid, etc. are basically attempts to combine the flexibility of the job system and characters with unique abilities.

I feel like 6 was a reaction to feeling like characters had no personal combat identity, so they locked them into skills which became useless when everyone learns magic.

Oh, and in case you wanted more.
youtu.be/rzBVR6T0Jec?list=PLMkkpgTd3CONh10G_Q4gNpul82oGDP2l0&t=1933
That's who wrote TAY.

youtu.be/i6tgRJzQbh4?t=20362
Notice how that writer of TAY's name appears nowhere in the credits for the original game. I know retards on who can't actually look into this stuff on their own like to parrot complete bullshit because they read a summary of a poorly translated interview on wikipedia, but try to put a little effort into searching for this stuff on your own next time, you fucking retard.

How the Fuck do people tolerate persona 5?

See
This poster is right in that works hold up over time.
They are wrong about FF4 though. It's not the best now, or even then, but it's still worth playing.

The standard all Final Fantasy 2D games seem to be held to is FF6 though.
FF6 had the right balance of characters going in and out (if you discount the secret ones of course).
Great story with some decent twists and trope subversions (though not nearly as much as its superior successor, FF 7)

Holy SHIT. that looks an AWFUL lot like the last boss in Tales of Destiny for PSX

well Kronos looks like HIM rather.

Attached: latest.png (294x362, 3K)

and then he turned into a bugman for the ps2 remake

Yes. I always recommend it as a pick for first one to play to people looking to get into the series too.

I'd say it's the earliest one that is still very playable and enjoyable by todays standards.

hahaha, yeah. i never played it since it wasnt translated at the time. The guys doing it have taken 10 years, i still havent checked back on it.

Attached: 1547323843860.png (580x548, 293K)

Only the Japanese version, if you're playing SNES/SFC.
Western edition cut out quite a bunch of abilities and made the game even easier than it originally was.

Why not recommend 5 or 6?
They're both as easy to understand, and 5 has more features later on.

I hope throughhim413 gets hit by lightning and drops dead. He's caused more damage to the translations efforts than he's provided. Fuck that guy.

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