Heretic

It has a more basic enemy roster but it's okay

Goldeneye 64, and Halo: Combat Evolved.

It's basically doom reskinned with an inventory system.

Civvie 11 pls go

every idtech1 game is just a doom reskin with inventory except strife

So, consoles?

I like Hexen better but that game is more of a weird hybrid shooter/dungeon-crawler.

Even with its "what the fuck did that switch do?" gameplay, I still enjoy Hexen more. The combat is way more satisfying.

This

This. I liked Hexen's combat when I actually got to do it, but for every ten seconds of fighting, there was twenty minutes of hunting for keys and trying to figure out what the hell that switch I flipped actually did.

>3 melee weapons
>2 are obsolete within the first 30min of the game

Hexen is nothing like Doom.

>Man remember when FPS games had level design and secrets, not just corridors separating setpieces ?
And when you could actually carry more than two fucking weapons.

Weapons aren't as strong and satisfying as Doom. It's a good game but Doom is superior.

>Where did we go so wrong ?
Games were dumbed down for consoles, for both technical reasons (eg. controller and memory limitations gave rise to less weapons, smaller levels and simpler enemies) and player skill expectancy (eg. younger demographic and you can't aim or look around as precisely on a controller so add autoaim and remove level verticality).
Console shooters became so popular at a point there were more players so it became more profitable to make games this way from the get-go.

>Raven Software

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>Weapons aren't as strong and satisfying as Doom.
And considering that they're literally just reskins of the Doom weapons, that's a pretty big fuckup.

Heretic's map design fucking sucks ass. Like it seriously blows major cock. I like everything else about the game better than Doom, though. Honestly it's not even like the map layout, it's just the fucking switch hunting. You hunt all over for a tiny little switch, sometimes it's a random texture on the wall that doesn't look like a switch, then you hunt all over for what the fuck the switch did so you can hunt for the next switch.

>being nostalgic about mashing the use key on the walls

>Heretic's map design fucking sucks ass.
You what? It's almost as good as Doom 1 ep1's. Better than anything in ep2-4 and all of Doom 2.

Making mediocre sequels to acclaimed titles since 1992!

Blood is better than both but Hexen is top tier refinery

I meant more the gameplay design with the incessant switch and key hunting, the map layout itself is good. Also, I actually like episode 2 and 4 of Doom, and most of Doom2s maps. Episode 3 can suck a chode, though.

Why the hell aren't there more fantasy FPS games?

Actually scratch that. I thought they only made the Soldier of Fortune sequels, but they also did the original, so they're alright in my book.

I just noticed the protagonist’s eyes in the OP cover.

Are you mixing up Heretic and Hexen? Heretic is no more switch/key hunting than Doom.

>Heretic/2
>Hexen/2
>SoF
>Jedi Knight Outcast/Academy
They have a great track record.

Nah
Now Blood, that's a different story. Playing Blood made me realized my most hated aspect of Doom: aesthetically the levels looks like a mess and makes no sense

>Hexen/2
>Jedi Knight Outcast/Academy
I played those in recent years and they're kinda crap. Maybe the jedi shit gets better when you get the sword, but the shooty parts sucked.

Sorry but you have poor taste. Hexen 2 is on the lower end but Hexen and Outcast/Academy are top tier.

He said Heretic to begin with.

And yet he attributing a gameplay style not even present in Heretic but rather its sequel.

They also surprisingly made Xmen Legends, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and the underrated Xmen Origins game. Also don't forget Singularity
I think you're a fag if you think that Outcast/Academy are crap man. Other than the Nar Shadda level with the bullshit snipers, they're still stellar to play

>Maybe the jedi shit gets better when you get the sword
Oddly enough, the first level after you get your saber in Jedi Outcast is an absolutely terrible level to use your saber on. It's full of snipers whose weapons can't be deflected. Really bad design. The rest of the game is okay, but not great. Jedi Academy has much better levels, and you have a saber right from the beginning.

funny enough classic doom plays better than 99% of shooters with a controller since you dont have vertical aiming and pretty forgiving auto aim

>I think you're a fag if you think that Outcast/Academy are crap man. Other than the Nar Shadda level with the bullshit snipers, they're still stellar to play
Not him, but Outcast had a lot of bad level design.

As mentioned here in this ITT, both Hexens have too much bullshit switch hunting to be considered good.

Because that's the kind of game the devs wanted it to be, it's not supposed to be a standard Doom-style FPS. If you don't like it that's fine but it achieved what it wanted to be.

You're a plebeian of the highest order, just say its not your cup of tea instead of trying to save face by shitting on it. Jedi Knight games are universally revered and have the scores to back it up. They're still being played online to this day.

A first person puzzle game?

More-or-less. Think of it as a Metroid Prime game with slightly more emphasis on shooting.

>you're a plebeian
>proceeds to argumentum ad populum

Am I the only one that enjoys the puzzle design of hexen and hexen 2?

It wanted to be tedious and annoying?

I enjoy it too.

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Your opinion is not shared by everyone.

Hexen 2 could have been a fun action adventure game, but then the crude and bare level design and (ironically) too much combat made it something that doesn't fit either genre and isn't very good on its own.

Not really. I wouldn't call it outright bad but I did got frustrated with some parts. They're a bit complicated. You can always play Academy for the streamlined levels.
I actually can't defend Outcast levels that much because my heart lies on Dark Forces 2 already.

It was developed at the same time as Doom 2, so you could call it divergent evolution.
The major weakness of Doom that both games improve on is the lack of variety with enemies, and both take some similar and some different approaches. Doom 2 has another zombie hitscanner and projectile spammers with a relentless spiderdemon-like AI, homing Revenant projectiles, monster resurrecting and a lock-on line-of-sight-requiring attack with Archvile. Heretic has no hitscan enemies at all, but they still pose a legitimate threat with things like homing projectiles (less sharp turning but more numerous), spread projectiles (somewhat similar to D2 mancubus), and random attack modes with Iron Lich. The enemies in Heretic have higher minimum HP than Doom's zombies, but there are less very durable bullet sponges like in Doom 2. It's different in that sense, yet doesn't approach Quake's smaller hordes either.

The weapons are more or less analogous, but IMO at least as well balanced. Gauntlets are a chainsaw clone. Staff is slightly better than fist, wand is slightly better than pistol and more importantly has a different ammo type, so it never becomes useless. Crossbow shoots in a spread but uses projectiles. Dragon claw is mostly similar to chaingun. Hellstaff is like a budget plasma gun, works very similarly but is not as powerful and has more plentiful ammo. Phoenix rod is a rocket launcher. Firemace is a semi-secret weapon and somewhat similar to the press test BFG.

With the Tome of Power all of these weapons have a power mode that works differently, like gauntlets get a bigger reach and steal life, and phoenix rod turns into a flamethrower. The ToP and other items are another major divergence from Doom. The game was designed around the use of inventory, which gives it the unique feel of improvising with stuff you have at hand. This also makes it a bit more complex than Doom, but not bloated. I highly recommend checking Heretic out if you like Doom.

sounds like you're describing hexen

>Dragon Claw
>Dragon Claw with Tome of Power

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Heretic has the worst case of bullet-sponge enemies of all fps of that era.

I meant hexen, yeah, got them mixed up because it has the word heretic in the title, but I meant hexen
heretic is just wizard doom

Best classic fps game coming through.

I can't wait for the remaster coming out later this year.

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Yeah, he's great.

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You can go fuck yourself now Atari, we already have BloodGDX.

I absolutely adore the idea in theory, and even had a fair bit of fun with Hexen, but I do think it was really flawed in its execution, and was kind of tedious. It just needed more thought to it's design, at some points. Some of the puzzles, like "Hey, here's a place that's shaped like a mask" and then later on you get a mask, are nice and intuitive. You get the mask, and you know to go put it in that slot. But some are just "hit a switch, and the game tells you a door has opened somewhere in another level, go find it fucko" and those are annoying as hell. You wind up wandering aimlessly a lot.

How did Heretic have the best boss fights of that era?

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It really does suck that so many people got confused by 7 Portals, that wasn't a great hub to start with.

I absolutely cannot stand flipping a switch and having no idea what it did. It sucks in Hexen, it sucks in Doom wads, it just fucking sucks.

Yeah it was a bad way to start the game. Every hub after is much better, especially hub 2.

youtube.com/watch?v=112WeuCnyQs

I loved the whole melee combat concept in an FPS. Especially for such an old title. Wish they'd bring out stuff like that again nowadays, maybe like the new DOOM games.

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Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it sucks. Also the game generally tells you a 'door opened in [level name],' if you're too much of a brainlet to find that one door in a relatively small level then that's your problem, not the game's.

Can verify. That was awful and almost made me drop it a few times. It picks up after it a lot faster but they should've just cut that out entirely

>plays a cutscene
>"loot" shits out
here's your melee bro

It's better than DOOM 2

but worse than DOOM

Meele FPS games are so uncommon. It's a shame.

Because they had multiple attacks. Compare the Cyberdemon to the Maulotaur:

Cyberdemon
>shoots rockets at you

Maulotaur
>shoulder charges you
>smacks you with his hammer
>fires a spread-fireball attack at you
>slams the ground and shoots a trail of fire at you

Okay not like that, but with the same budget in mind. I just think they managed to bring DOOM back in a good way with the new game, even with the sucky ass melee finishers.

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this fuck fucking switch hunting

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The game tells you where everything is

Just press tab like in DOOM. You literally don't have to look for shit!

Every hub after has this sort of main "puzzle room" with a centerpiece that marks off how many switches were flipped in each attached map, so there was at least some feedback as to how much more you needed to do to complete the hub.

can maulotaurs one-shot you through tomed necro gauntlets? I remember roasting liches with them like it's nothing but I don't think I tried it on maulotaurs

Never tried, that fire trail attack scares me too much to get close.

I always preferred Doom, but it's really a matter of taste, the games are very similar on many aspects.
The level design of these old shooters was far from perfect though. Some secrets were cleverly made and you had to think a bit to figure out how to get to them but many were just about stupidly mashing the action key on every piece of furniture. I remember that Duke Nukem 3D was especially bad at this.
It's regenerating health and two weapon limits that ruined the genre IMO. I blame Halo mainly. To think that you now get regular Halo nostalgia threads on Yea Forums, I'm really too old for this place.

>we'll never get the true ending to the Serpent Rider trilogy, Hecatomb

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>enter the 1st hub again
>get massive 1999 nostalgia when i first played hexen on n64
>it was in the fall

>cover art

What's a "cover" Dad?

>It's regenerating health and two weapon limits that ruined the genre IMO. I blame Halo mainly.
To be fair, Halo did those things decently well. The Regenerating Shields in Halo, were just a small buffer before you start taking permanent health damage. It was a clever system that allowed you to have the tense moments of "Almost no HP left, having to scrape by with the last of your wits", without making it so you still die if something even looks in your general direction. Similarly, the two weapon loadout in Halo was used well with the game design, each weapon had a purpose and it was designed around constantly switching your loadout up, to deal with new threats and situations. The Battle Rifle had entirely different uses to the Shotgun, rather than having to choose between two different Assault Rifles with slight differences in fire rate and Damage Per Shot.

Not that I have a ton of love for Halo, I always found them kinda dull, but it did use those elements well. The problem was the trend they started, with other games not knowing how to use those elements well, and just using them cause they were in Halo, and Halo was popular, till the shitty bastardized versions in other games, became the norm. Halo is still responsible for this, just like RE4 was a good game, but led to the shitty action game wannabes of 5 and 6.

>each weapon had a purpose and it was designed around constantly switching your loadout up, to deal with new threats and situations. The Battle Rifle had entirely different uses to the Shotgun
This is no different than any FPS prior to Halo.

Yeah, I'm not saying it was revolutionary. I'm saying it wasn't bad, unlike the later "two weapon loadout" games, that made half the guns Assault Rifles that have minor differences in damage and recoil.

>A Door Has Opened Somewhere!
>No Indication of where
>Spend an hour looking through every level

The problem with 2 weapon limits, other than just not being able to play with all your toys when you want, is that the game's areas usually tailor made with the idea of the player using certain weapons. Want to use the rocket launcher whenever you want? Well tough shit, this ain't the section where the helicopter attacks and can only be damaged by the RL. Enter a new area and there's a sniper rifle leaning against the wall? Welcome to the sniper section, you're going to run out of ammo by the end and will have to drop the sniper rifle for another weapon or gimp yourself.

What's with the retards in this thread thinking Heretic is Hexen?

Hexen has the most soul

Nice soul you've got there.

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>A Door Has Opened Somewhere!
>No Indication of where
Except you're lying? Whenever you do that, the game always tells you "A door has opened in [level]". That you can't read is not the game's fault.

Good game, but less satisfying/exciting than Doom.
I read an interesting review that said, unlike Doom, Hexen has no "oh shit" enemies. The same is true for Heretic. When you see/hear an Archvile, Cyberdemon, or Mastermind in Doom, you go "oh shit" and have to completely rethink your current strategy. In Heretic, even an Iron Lich is not really super threatening or difficult to take down. And on the other hand there's no popcorn enemies besides the gargoyles, and even they often require 2 crossbow shots. So most enemies are just mid-tier, decreasing the amount of variety compared to Doom.

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Hexen is unironically a beautiful game.

It's pretty cool that the edges of the wave effect (it's composed of sectors) are barely perceptible even at a modern resolution. Must've looked completely seamless at 320x240.

Hexen 2 has pretty much no switch hunting, the puzzles are less arbitrary. The first puzzle is like you've got to find this dudes bones, then grind them up in a mill, then take them to a wizard's lab to turn into an elixir that turns a mithril wall into wood.

You should play Dark Messiah if you haven't.

Hexen I (and II) is really unique, it is a weird blend first person doom combat, metroidvania-esque exploration with hub levels and very light rpg elements in a dark fantasy atmosphere.
I don't think any game has been made that is similar to it. Dark Messiah is probably the closest but it is much more linear, the combat is completely different and leans towards the RPG aspect.

What four weapons would Corvus have if he was a class in Hexen?

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Heretic is fun, but it's not in league with doom.

Powerslave (Saturn/PS1) is a true Metroid-style FPS. You get magical abilities like double jumping, underwater breath, etc. and have to revisit previous levels with them.

I think Hexen is one of those games where you LITERALLY have to have a bit higher IQ to enjoy it. I think having to mentally keep track of every map and door you have seen makes it way more engaging, compared to Doom's single maps desing. Also Hexen has goat atmosphere.

>it's just the fucking switch hunting
Despite THAT one switch in Guardian of Steel, cry me a fucking river.

wraithverge is kino

Indeed.

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Play the Deathkings of the Dark Citadel for the mage was very painful. Hordes of minotaurs raped me all the way.

>play Deathkings as cleric
>have to fight slaughtaurs with the mace

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Apparently the first hub is difficult for all classes.

I fucking love Heretic, I prefer Doom in general but there's a lot to love about Heretic

Especially the graphics and the world design - Doom maps get quite stale by the time you've played through all 32 maps (although The Spirit World is a beautiful Doom 2 map) but Heretic just nails it in all 3 original episodes

City of the Damned - really nice medieval village feel

Hell's Maw - my favourite depiction of hell, I love the textures so much

Dome of D'Sparil - love the use of marble and stone, and the skybox that shows you're in an underwater dome

one of my all time favourites

I'd agree with Halo but 007 was a pretty cool game

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Heretic is fun but Shadow of the serpent riders is the most bullshit set of levels ever conceived in a FPS

Ep3 in particular is amazing looking.

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just looking at that screenshot takes me back to playing it on a copied floppy disc my dad brought home at the time

it still looks amazing

doom and so-called doom clones look so fucking cool

I really liked Episode 5. Heretic in general is my favorite FPS to pistol start in.

these fuckers still scare me

when I first got the game all I had was Doom shareware, so when I found out I could ACTUALLY PLAY more than just episode 1 in this game, i went right to ep 3, ran into this guy, and didn't play the game again for weeks

fucking terrifying

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yes

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Jesus that's fucking spooky

>OOHOOHOOHAHAHA

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they really don't make games like this anymore

no

I kind of want to tile my bathroom like that

try Amid Evil

is this the one that was doom rpg? I think you had to pay money and go into shops to buy the "guns" That shit was cool as fug.

Is there some giant wad megapack that has all these doom and doom mods all in one so I can play a lot of them quickly

I was thinking about that looking at that picture. The first episode of AE definitely gives off Dome of D'Sparil vibes.

I believe you're thinking of Strife.

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I still need to beat Heretic 2

>hey guys we published this game too

L o l

not really no

Well considering Doom was the game at the time and Romero worked on Heretic and Hexen, it did mean something.

Music is really bad, had to turn it off after an hour or so. Last 2 episodes after beating D'Sparil are really fucking boring. Everything else is great.

no but it's still good
indie games are bringing that back

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The Jedi games were great at release.

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>Music is really bad

youtube.com/watch?v=q_jGJGpVGqM
youtube.com/watch?v=rRpWmq8IVhQ
youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZCVsyZRwY

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youtube.com/watch?v=mHTITVrVMCU
youtube.com/watch?v=28JVDAxBoyU
youtube.com/watch?v=N--E3tYKIhg

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>adlib
yikes, sounds like shit, regardless of nostalgia. theres midi soundfonts based on the actual equipment it was composed on, and that sounds a million times better

I love Kevin Schilder's work.

youtube.com/watch?v=zfOLAOjVTA0
youtube.com/watch?v=M8EqrIWUlN8
youtube.com/watch?v=112WeuCnyQs
youtube.com/watch?v=Fq7C2E1yA7s

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member when games were juicy as fuck? everything about these games is immensely satisfying, right down to the color palettes

you got a link?

mostly preferred Heretic's high energy sounds to Hexen's moody music, but those two stood out for me
youtube.com/watch?v=qdFHA8km18E
youtube.com/watch?v=sK7Az5cMpwc

HOOHOOOHOO
HAAAHAAAHAA

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