Lol

It's a common thing for online games.
Like R6S has seasons based on season passes, SC2 has it based on warchests, DotA has it based on time with recalibration every season - even shit like Duel Links has it with lovering your rank every three months and competitions and so on.

pretty much this. poured thousands of hours of free time into dota 2, and for what? I'm still fucking awful and I can't make it 20 minutes into a game without getting mad at SOMETHING. I've seen people go from joe schmoe to pro gamer in multiple games (I'm not gonna name anyone out of fairness) like street fighter or tf2, and the one thing I can say without a doubt was these peoples insane capacity for self-ownership at their loss. got beat out by wake up spam dragon punches? no one to blame but yourself. got an embarrassing upset loss cause you biffed your rocket jump? you need to practice more.

don't be an average turd floating in a cesspool of other average turds, upset at one other for being slightly past their own brand of mediocrity. have fun with video games, and if you're not having fun with them at all maybe you should move on to hobby that develops a mastery over something. writing, music, painting... the world is at your fingertips, user.

why spend all of it setting up scenarios where you're going to be mad, even when you're progressing?

Attached: 1549580656243.jpg (598x714, 46K)

For real?
Shit has been hard line, mid, 2 easy line (support and a heavy carry) and a jungler for decade. With "support wards", "carry farms" and jungler ganks.
Or do you mean minor differences like item X has been patched so it's better to get item Y for all the range physical damage dealers instead?

>DotA is a simplified RTS
I beg my pardon. It's not. It's fucking not. Not in the slightest.

because the game is filled with fucking idiots and you can't just quit a match that's fucked you have to play it out

>decide to play it again after not playing for a while
>in my first 2 matches some guy just runs into the enemy over and over
>lose both matches of course, 1 hour down the drain

>Or do you mean minor differences like item X has been patched so it's better to get item Y for all the range physical damage dealers instead?
yes, this. dota meta is way more bold and daring, league is just a version of dota simplified to represent the "standard" dota format 1:1:2 with ganking jungler.

People who do not play mobas+rts just meme about mobas being hyper casual. I play(ed) both dota and rts and dota has enough depth to be its own thing. Not saying that it is harder than rts or easier than rts but it IS a different game/genre.

There has been shit like seasons where the meta is to run tanky champs outside of bot lane or assassins or some other shit, support champs when from being limited to support only to now having shit like AP champs be meta (back in the day you'd get raged at for picking support brand)

this

1. RTS is (for the 90%) is about 1vs1, while MOBA is about 5vs5. It's a major difference.
2. It has some depth with mindgames, teamplay and builds (to a minor extend), but it is in no way near any multilpayer RTS. An RTS absolutely requires a shittonne of APM (inbf: not just click spamming, but EAPM), while average MOBA player has APM less than a fucking pocketwatch. The difference is pretty much the same as between FIFA and some nerdy strategy soccer simulator.

I would agree that DotA has more variety with say - some junglers that farm woods for 15 minutes before coming out to decide some teamfight, dedicated pushers and just a more variable pool of heroes. But that's about it. There are some unortahtdox strategies like Axe camping between two T3 with others pooling creeps to him and all that - but each and every one of them is a decade old.

this game hasnt been decent since season 1-3

let me be clear, it's always been basically garbage, if not for the simplified mechanics and the terrible developers that crush all creativity in the game, but the terrible community that plays it. now it's near unplayable

It's normal, it's fun for a year or so, until you learn the basics. Then, it's pure cancer and you'll get mad over everything.

Depends on the RTS. Depending on the patch or the map, many matches can be rock-paper-scissors.

I got Master in SC2 many years ago, and 5k MMR in Dota 2 a few years after that. Dota was the more difficult game up to that point.

All of the apm heavy RTS games are very much meta reliant too with a few cheeses here and there. Like RTS gets so much praise for being so complex but really its very tame in depth after you learn the game and mostly boils down to execution and some rts games are so much slower that you might aswell throw that factor out the window.

>I liked it back in season 7 when i first started
Oh god to think people that started in season 7 are burning out on the game. I played that game nearly 10 years ago. Why are people still playing that game. Isn't it like Diablo III the x-th season?

Attached: 1360891734491.gif (300x196, 358K)

Wasn't necessarily the post I meant to reply to.
Regarding APM though, it's just another skill like anything else. APM, aiming in FPS, quick thinking, etc. are all just time-consuming skills that require practice. But guess what, those things develop as you learn the game and practice anyway.
Also, someone who efficiently practices build orders in SC2 with 90 APM is going to be better than someone winging it with 150 APM.

in an RTS, you control army + production. in DotA you control only army, and only like 1/5th of it. ergo, dota is an rts but more simple.
sure, dota is a team game and emphasises coordination over single man skill, plus there's some items thingamajig i dont really get, but at it's core, DotA began from a simplification mod for WC3 (and the mod itself was a recreation of a SC Brood War mod).
keep in mind that simple =/= bad or skilless. Brood War is simple, way more so than other RTS games, but its simplicity is what makes it so good.

Attached: EVEN IN DEATH I FAIL.webm (390x650, 2.56M)

You should have tried that the other way. Most DotA players can't get that high - it takes actual skill to execute shit at appropriate level.
Yes, execution is the key. Assuming perfect execution DotA is harder because of 5vs5 is harder than 1vs1. But executing 1vs1 in DotA is much easier than in RTS.

what is tryhard?

>in an RTS, you control army + production. in DotA you control only army, and only like 1/5th of it
You can say the same thing about CS, user. It's a fallacy and you know it.

I love this game but I cannot defend it anymore.

Games are just so unsatisfying now, even if I carry the whole shitty team on my back and do godly in a game, it doesn't really matter. Matchmaking is absolutely garbage this season. It only takes three seconds to get deleted even as a tank. People are easily tilted. Games are harder to make comebacks in. Matches are determined by who has the weakest link aka it's all a coinflip. People don't take ranked seriously and trolls are everywhere. Powercreep is at its peak, with the most absurd champions continually being released with the mindset that they should have everything at their disposal.

I'm so glad I got out of it bros.

Attached: the dude.jpg (1280x720, 76K)

except league has had completely fucked metas that are too dyanmic and snuffed quickly. there was a 3 v 1 meta where 3 people rush top tower and dive the top laner if he dares show up in lane, so it becomes a race to kill first tower where theres 3 top and 3 bot, or the jung and top laner just duo farm jungle and roam for plays. there was also gold funneling where the adc is the jungler with 2 supports sucking him off and he farms bot lane jungle and mid and dives people with massive gold and level advantage

>But executing 1vs1 in DotA is much easier than in RTS.
try playing mid vs someone with 10k hours and you will see the difference in a minute. When things are "simpler" smaller mistakes and optimizations become more impactful. This is also why in Warcraft 3 which is considered a slow RTS fights can change outcome just because of small micro moves you make during a fight.

I honestly never would have played SC2 after Dota 2 if that was the case. Dota 2 was my favourite game for years and I almost exclusively played it for who-knows-how-long. Terribly addicting, plus going pro always seemed like something that was within my grasp. I was delusional.

Exactly what it sounds like. You're using optimal strategies, maybe doing something considered cheap or broken, and people get pissed off at you for "trying hard". Did you every play any multiplayer games? I can probably give you an example.

Tryhard is just a word people throw out when they're tilted/upset from losing. If you're playing a competitive game then you should do what works best. If you play for fun then don't get pissed off when people beat you with better strats.

I don't get it.
Are you implying micro in an RTS is nonexistent?
Or are you implying MOBA does not have a macro play?
Both things matter in both games. But it's harder to pull off everyting perfect with too much things to control.

>You can say the same thing about CS
in a way, yeah i can. CS lacks rocket jumping, strafejumping, item timing, and other stuff quake has. sure, it may replace them with other bullshit like stricter hitboxes/time-to-kill/death penalty, but at it's core, someone who is good at quake will learn CS faster than someone good at CS will learn quake, thus CS is simplier than quake.
i dont even like or hate either of these games. i like an even more simplified CS with no item buy and no difference between the sides and a silly "deliver the ball" gamemode.
>It's a fallacy
how so? okay, maybe i am using the wrong terminology here, the proper term is "mechanically simple", and that causes this discommunication, but how is my statement false?

Attached: I'm a gamer and i can help.png (512x512, 459K)

Get banned and watch how your life improves its a fucking miarcle.

i unironically love the game and still play it daily

AMA

>playing since season 8
Lmao been playing since 2, im not a thin skinned faggot so i dont get mad at videogames

You're just a loser with shit taste. ROFL

No I am not saying RTS doesnt have micro. But some RTS have more some less. I played WC3 most and hated Starcraft for being too fast and A+click reliant. Thats why I said that WC3 was 'slow' but this slowness meant that it was more reliant on small decisions and micro.
>But it's harder to pull off everyting perfect with too much things to control.
YES! So in Dota 2 it is easier. But no matter how good you are nobody can play 100% perfectly and for just last hitting there is a lot of mind games and you can be constantly thinking for your next optimal move based on the current state of the game and what the other 9 players are doing. You should aim to play in a way where you never have downtime and every time you are doing something more optimal and productive than your enemy so that in the long run you and your team will be able to build a lead and use that for your advantage in fights which then have another layer of execution and teamwork.

I just have this feeling that I THINK that most of the people who bash mobas (well dota is the only 'moba' I played...) dont really have experience on them and are just boomers praising their golden RTS which they probably havent touched in years similiar how Yea Forums is suddenly full of arena fps veterans when a thread is up. I like that WC3 still has active playerbase and I play Dota too but I really want to capitalize on the fact that yes BOTH of them require skill but it is just a bit different. I am top5000 in Dota 2 and I would argue that it is harder than RTS but maybe it is just my own ego or the lack of competition in the old genre.

I wont deny it but i havent spent a single dime on it, much better than 60 bucks AAA games with season passes and whatever Esport bs game they try to push out just to let it die in a couple of months

I only play it because it's the only multiplayer game my boomer friends play

>i've played for a season and i hate it!
If you haven't played league since at least season 3 you aren't allowed to have an opinion on the state of the game

why is there so much anti esports autism all the time? like are you really getting triggered because people talk about seasons?

It's just the game you enjoy the most. Every game and sport is incredibly challenging at the highest level. In order to advance, you need to learn nuances, sub-strategy, tactics to go along with your strategies, etc. And your mechanics are expected to be far better than average.

I agree with the bulk of your post though.

Somewhat related -- I haven't bought a full priced game in forever and I stopped spending money on multiplayer games. Now I just enjoy a few games a year when Steam sales have them for ridiculously cheap. Feels great.

What the fuck is up with season passes anyway? Why did the industry stop calling it DLC?

You're a stupid nigger just kill yourself back in season 7 when I stared he says what are you 14 fuck off this game died years before that and spawned half of what's wrong with gaming today

or why is it called Season Pass when they never have seasons? for other than fightning games that is.

That's what I'm wondering. When I was browsing Dark Souls 3 DLC, they had it listed as a Season Pass. I think Shadow of Morder was the same.

You may be right on the point that a lot of people are vocal idiots.
But the point is, top players in SC don't just A-move for the win. Macro is surely much more important - with 10 footmen vs 5 of yours micro will hardly save you. But people that excell at SC excell at microing too. And perfectly microing 100 units across the whole map is so much harder than microing 1-2 units on the screen.

Just play Garen and justicedunk some kids bro

Well, saying FPS is a simplified RTS may technically be true to an extend, but that statement is incredibly dumb and misses the point.
The point of any RTS is controlling your whole vast forces at the same time. The dumbiet your units are (like failing basic pathing or not attacking while attacked) - the harder it is.
MOBA (or an FPS) is the complete opposite of the specter - to succeed one must be perfect with controlling one particular units. The thing is, it's much harder to control multiple units than it is to control one. Sure, losing one of a hundred units is not such a big loss as losing the only one you control (literally a 1% loss instead of 100%). But think of it this way: the amount of skill required to perfectly control a unit is a set value. The more complicated the unit is, the harder it is to achieve, sure. But it's harder to effectively control 100 units that require X skill than one unit that requires 10X skill. That's my point.

I can't answet for everyone, but in this particular case I just projected my hate foe e-sports on my failing to grasp that terminology.
It also feels like it came from real sports when as the time passes seasons change (I believe the most common phase is changing it four times a year). In real sports that makes a lot of sence because team composition changes and particular players may have aged, get injured, transfered or accuired some skill. It makes perfect sence for the audience, but the game itself stays exactly the same and not much changes for people that actually play it. It's based on the audience not tha players.
E-sports is a fucking cancer that tries to turn videogames into a show, so it uses terms that target audience.

>FPS is a simplified RTS
who has ever said that you dunce
i define games into multiple parent genres from which each either simplifies, expands on, combines or makes a mix of, for some genres there are proto-games from which most of the rest of the games can stem from, for others each new game is a mostly fresh take or a direct sequel. to me RTSs as a whole are a different, separate breed of game from FPSs, even though people do try to combine them sometimes they're still functionally different at the core.
>
ah, i see. you were on my side all along. so we agree that the complexity of RTSs comes from supply&demand-like management of econ, army and expansion, while the complexity of dota comes from management of one (sometimes up to a dozen) complex unit(s) while in a team setting.

>FPS is a simplified RTS
wtf am I reading

>so we agree
Yes we do. And it's not like managing a single MOBA hero is just 10 times harder than managing a single footman. In RTS you manage the whole scene. It's not like - oh shit, they are pushing bot, I better get my single unit there. It's like, oh shit, my base he's about to hit my base there. I better pull some boys there and also get another base and also make a drop here and also get this tech and also have vision there and also etc etc. In moba those things are divided between the players: support gets the vision, carry farms while someone tries to defend. It's not like you do all the things at a casual level - you do just a part.

Exactly my point, user.

>I liked it back in season 7
Newfag

Wise words

the only good season was pre-season and season 1
shit was unbalanced as fuck and you could make scuffed ass builds

thanks.