Yeah yeah yeah, I know. We're going home. Yes, I'm excited as well

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Agreed with everything except one enjoyable raid. I enjoyed the shit out of basically every raid except SSC(never did anything of note in sunwell since I was a filthy casual)

Based dev you are to based to be real.

flying mounts are cancer but tbc was based, but thats just totally like me opinion

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flying is shit and detracts from the game while only appeasing ADHD fags

How the fuck does it detract from the game? By the time you get a flying mount, you've already seen it all. The fact that there were raids and areas you couldn't reach without a flying mount was awesome imo.

The "world" in world of warcraft feels empty when everyone can just fly over it and ignore everything on it. Also any world pvp that bgs and dks didnt kill died with flying mounts.

While it's fun to be able to fly, it suddenly removes everything between you and your next destination from relevance. No longer do you actually have to care about things happening along the way when traveling - you just shoot fifty meters into the air and descend only when you're above the next quest marker.

Wrath was better than BC change my mind

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TotC is the best raid change my mind

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wow's gameplay just doesn't work with flying in mind. you're virtually invulnerable when flying and hardly ever see other players
it completely kills the outside world

>introduce knockbacks that dismount people
>remove this feature when people bitch

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Blizzard is too retarded to actually listen to a great idea like yours.

>garbage zones like hellfire and zangarmarsh
Fuck you I will cut you you fucking piece of shit. TBC had top tier zones, including the all time best zone of WoW. You're right on all the rest.

>introduced play the patch instead of play the expansion
>here, get your free catch-up tier sets from Wintergrasp
>raid design all over the place, changed raid philosophy 4 times
>LFG

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At least TBC had areas, factions, and quests that you needed flying for unlike the expansions that followed. Only reason people have a bug up their ass about it is due to the fact that shitters can run away from getting their shit pushed in during wpvp.

outland is the worst continent in wow

my wish is that they add raids for vanilla after naxx

WotLK had that shit too. Pretty sure even Cata had a little bit of it.

TBC was shit. fuck off proto-wrath niggers

>you're virtually invulnerable when flying
you also can't do ANYTHING while flying. it's a means of transportation.
>hardly ever see other players
usually when you're flying around, you have a goal. people will often have the same goals as you. i don't know what your point is here.
>it completely kills the outside world
not if you're a jaded level 70 who has seen it all already.

everything after vanilla is dogshit

better take off those rose tinted glasses, fucko

You're bringing up points like you disagree, but everything you just said supports his claim that flying is shit that detracts from the game.
Maybe you don't realize it, but you're a fucking nummo babby and the exact kind of person who ruined wow in the first place.

you're delusional if you think WoW suffered from the release of TBC, friend.

Whatever you say bab

Those are good points, but I have to disagree since LAVA BURST

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>you also can't do ANYTHING while flying. it's a means of transportation.
Exactly the point, you are completely avoiding the entire game.
>usually when you're flying around, you have a goal. people will often have the same goals as you. i don't know what your point is here
Once again you prove the original point, everyone just avoids eachother and does their own thing.
>not if you're a jaded level 70 who has seen it all already.
This is literally not an argument.

>you also can't do ANYTHING while flying. it's a means of transportation.

>fly 300 feet above some guy
>wait till he pulls some mobs
>gank him mercilessly

>put Kael on the cover
>Completely destroy his character

FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK FUCK YOU

AND FUCK THAT RAID WITH DA LITTLE GIRL SUNWELL AND THE BLUE DRAGON SHIT

AND KILJAEDEN WITH HIS ASS STUCK
FUCK THIS TRASH

AND FUCK THE SPACE SHIPS

Isle of Quel Danas was kino, almost STV tier.
Looked hella stupid however, with demons fighting among those pristine garden enviroments

>Why the fuck would you want to go back to that?
Because the "world" part of WoW has always sucked, and BC had the best raiding. Vanilla raiding required so much autism that it ruined the experience.

>Exactly the point, you are completely avoiding the entire game.
So, people who take a flight point from Undercity to Booty Bay is just avoiding the entire game? Fuck them for not walking all the way there, right?
>Once again you prove the original point, everyone just avoids eachother and does their own thing.
people will do their own thing regardless of their XYZ potential. Flying just helps you avoid ganks when going from point A to point B. It also gets you there faster.
>This is literally not an argument.
how is it not an argument? No one cares about the outside world after seeing it 100 times. they just want to get shit done.

Look up what "proof by assertion" means and you'll understand why what you're saying literally isn't an argument.

>Because the "world" part of WoW has always sucked
This was the main reason of the success of the game nigger.
WoW is a better open world than skyrim or TW3.

You're free to not use flying mounts and go on foot. The only reason people hate flying mounts is because they're butthurt they can't harass people in WPvP as easily.

>So, people who take a flight point from Undercity to Booty Bay is just avoiding the entire game? Fuck them for not walking all the way there, right?
Flight points dont take you to the exact placement of a mob or quest and you cant afk on flightpoints 500 ft in the air for 2 hours. Please dont waste my time with such retarded arguments.
>people will do their own thing regardless of their XYZ potential. Flying just helps you avoid ganks when going from point A to point B. It also gets you there faster.
And once again you prove the point being made against flying, you're very bad at this.
>how is it not an argument? No one cares about the outside world after seeing it 100 times. they just want to get shit done.
Its not an argument because you're just stating an opinion as fact which is worthless.

BC was a great expansion, but i wouldnt want to stay in BC forever, it was only fun for a limited time, classic on the other hand is something i can play forever

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you're against flying for the stupidest reasons imaginable. have fun with your immersion, retard.

>AND FUCK THAT RAID WITH DA LITTLE GIRL SUNWELL AND THE BLUE DRAGON SHIT
I thought that part was cute. Better than anything Golden has shipped, that's for sure.

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>oh no people will fly over me and not interact with me
>how terrible that they can't leech my XP, steal my mobs/nodes, or corpse camp me

flying unironically ruins map design in every way, theres no point in making a detailed world if people just fly over it and theres no point to good quest design if people can juyt bypass half of it by flying, eventually designers will get lazy and just make shitty quests and maps that arent fun at all if youre not flying

I see you've given up attempting to defend flying in any semblance of a reasonable manner.
Flying apologists everyone.

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>eventually designers will get lazy and just make shitty quests and maps that arent fun at all if youre not flying
So it would be the exact same? Are we really going to pretend that WoW quests are well-designed?

>So, people who take a flight point from Undercity to Booty Bay is just avoiding the entire game? Fuck them for not walking all the way there, right?
Everybody should at least once walk all the way from Belf starting zone to the Booty Bay. Shame that Kalimdor doesn't have that linear start to end route

>I win cause I said so
Mental giant here.

>black temple
>ssc
>tk
>sunwell plateau

bc was so good lads i miss it

go play a real mmo blizzdrone

...which is why flying is only available to players at max level. not to mention, it costed a fortune to fly at 280% in BC.
you aren't anymore convincing than i am with your "but muh outside world is smaller" and "muh immersion" argument.

well no, but they got worse, same happened with ff14 when flying was introduced and people actually noticed and complained on how big the impact was, making flying just not worth it

>you aren't anymore convincing than i am with your "but muh outside world is smaller" and "muh immersion" argument.
Ive made neither of those arguments.

a lot of tbc sucked but it's still worth a play through to kara at least, it drags badly mid expansion

TBC has flaws, but it was my favorite time playing WoW. It's the only expansion that's basically Vanilla+. A lot of the core mechanics that Vanilla had were still there, it just added stuff and did some balance tweaks.

If you actually think flight paths and and flying mounts are in anyway comparable you may be the biggest brainlet currently posting on Yea Forums

>you also can't do ANYTHING while flying. it's a means of transportation.
Yes, you transport yourself over all the enemies and avoid all dangers. It's like everyone had access to mage portals. It's like those kids who play tag, touch a player then yell "TIME OUT!".
>usually when you're flying around, you have a goal. people will often have the same goals as you. i don't know what your point is here.
So your goals should not be interfered with by other players? Player interactions should not happen if it "wastes your time"? That's the kind of mentality that is killing MMORPGs right now.
>not if you're a jaded level 70 who has seen it all already.
You're likely to "see it all" even more when you're flying because of the speed and the larger view. Besides, you don't know what's around the corner when it comes to players even if you know what NPCs there's going to be... except when you're flying, where you just see it all and avoid it all.

>tfw guild spent a month just killing the pheonix for the mount

people will eventually get that money and then ganking will become even worse, because they can just fly over leveling areas and drop charge you out of the air making a single ganker have as much impact on leveling noobs like 10 gankers in classic roaming on foot

you sound like one of those guys who refuse to use qucik travel in skyrim, i did that once, was fun, but at some point it starts to impact your game

You tell me.

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>Flying just helps you avoid ganks when going from point A to point B.
Classes specifically had tools to avoid being ganked. Bubble hearth, stealth, cheetah, ghost wolf or travel form, frost nova + blink, fear, hamstring + intimidation shout, etc. You remove all those dynamics and put everyone on an even playing ground when they shouldn't. No actually, you remove them from the playing ground entirely.

Not to mention you cannot escape them since they can be literally anywhere and are nearly 3x as fast as you.

I don't remember Skyrim being an MMO. Nor do I remember Skyrim being good.

What if they added BC without flying mounts?

Vanilla was better, but I hope you get your wish. I would probably play it as well.

Tied for second worst expansion with MoP.

worst thing is, back in classic, you could call your guild and they would come help you and gank the gankers, with flying the ganker just mounts and flies away when your guild shows up, gg

gliding should completely replaced flying, it's a better system in every way, but blizzard handled the issue so badly in WoD it will never happen

This. There was one good raid in all BC, which was karazhan. Everything else about BC sucked

>Actually defending flying
even blizzard has admitted it was a mistake to introduce flying into the game and has been a burden on them ever since.

Arena gear being a reward for skill(or op comp) instead of poopsocking was genius.

beginning of the end

*fucking destroys you*
heh nothing personal kid

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>rng 3 sec stun

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>even blizzard has admitted it was a mistake to introduce flying into the game and has been a burden on them ever since.
Ion Hashecuckedus thinks it's bad because it means less playtime. He's not exactly a visionary when it comes to good game design.

Wotlk was the beginning of the end
>rehashed naxx because everyone should see raids even on tourist mode difficulties instead of making them a reward for the best players
>Dungeon finder introduced
>Tier sets for heroic dungeon badges introduced
>half the raid tiers were garbage
>zone phasing
>death knights / hero class imbalance in general

After Classic dominates BFA numbers for the rest of the year after it launches, and the next year after that.

the problem is that flying ruins the game from a designers perspective, since they have to design everything around flying and walking, which just doesnt work well. its a designers nightmare

Give me three (3) crunch reasons why MoP was a bad xpac, I'm waiting.
Also
>ToC
>banana raid progression in general
>10 and 25 modes
>wrath of plate king
>vehicle combat

tbc with 60 level cap, attunments and no flying

yes or no

What would 60 cap bring?
Tbc is already an accessfest what are you talking about
flying see thread

Reminder that the absolute pile of shit you are sucking off Blizzard had the audacity to call an expansion is just a sad speed bump on the road to the glory that is Wrath of the Lich King, the best fucking expansion this game has ever known. Don't even try to dispute the superiority of Wrath, you fucking faggoty blood elf cum chugging bitch.

maybe if they also made bloodelves and spacefurries unplayable

i'd play a mop legacy server, mop raids are based

TBC had attunements. but sure what ever with the others, it was a great xpac regardless of the these things people claim were glaring flaws.

the attunment got dropped halfway through

why are there more people asking for bc than wrath, i will never understand, bc is just a weak midleground between the streamlined experience that was wrath and the charming classic one

All of TBC was shit compared to Wrath. Kill yourself

>halfway through
the first content patch to TBC added the third tier of raids

Because Wrath was shit

Don't talk shit about wrath

the only part of wrath that was better than bc was ulduar and pvp

wrath is nu-wow, it can't have a legacy server

This was necessary to not dry out high tier guilds. Poaching shamans and lw for drums was a real thing and you'd face a player shortage otherwise

I'd ask for Wrath if it meant getting 3.1, but we all know it'd be LFD casual heaven 3.3.5

I was never real fond of TBC but the memory of our first successful ZulAman timed clear still gives me wood

TBC was superior to vanilla.
TBC > Vanilla > WotLK
Everything else was just different flavours of shit.

>bc is just a weak midleground
More like a perfect combination of Vanilla's Soul and Wrath's streamlining.

Wrath had the highest sub count for any period of WoW for a reason. It was the best time for the game with the best content and character design. The fact I mained a ret paladin in wrath has fuck all to do with it.

yeah but it was the peak of nu-wow, bc is just some limbo between classic and wrath design that doesnt satisfy either demands

How about we stop a acting like a bunch of role-players and accept the fact that flying mounts were dope as fuck, and a huge convenience to everybody who wanted to get shit done.
Seriously. What is your fucking argument?
>IMMERSION
I honestly don't give a fuck about immersion. Sorry.
>AVOIDING DANGER/GANKS
Lol. The only people mad about this are the ones doing the ganking. Fuck off. Go play BFA if you enjoy fucking other people over so much in world PVP. We all know how that turned out.
>YOU AREN'T EXPERIENCING THE GAME HOW I WANT
My game, my rules. I can do whatever the fuck I want to.

Wrath piggybacked on the BC momentum, and more players don't mean quality, see whatever shit is popular right now.

popluar =/= good
come on user, we have been over this a million times

The only reason flying mounts were such a convenience is because Outland was designed by assholes.

is battle of azeroth a good expansion?

flying is cool and convenient until you realize the price you have to pay, its not worth it. imagine skyrim with flying dragon mounts. its cool and awesome but it hurts in the long run, i deisntalled that mod after like 2 hours again

it's pretty but the game is fundamentally shit

Not really. People love to rag on WoD, but at least I only had to log on for raids and a few minutes each day for Garrisons. BfA is a never-ending checklist of annoying bullshit.

Wrath destroyed BC. Was much more engaging in the questing. Didn't shit on the lore. Featured Arthas all the way through the expansion, not just shoe horned in at the end of the last raid. Had best raid content of any expansion (ICC and Ulduar), best class balance and design state, best aesthetic, best storytelling, best overarching antagonist, excellent cathartic ending to ICC, best time for Paladins. Hands down.

I don't understand the "flying mounts made the world empty" meme, people just used flight paths before and took the same route from zone to zone every time.

>boring tundra
>engaging
>arthas turning into saturday night cartoon waving his fist and saying "next time player !"
>Had ToC a'd a fucking mock pvp encounter
>vehicle raids
>Dks shitting on an entire 3 men team solo
>cathartic
Am I being rused?

flying restricts a lot of design options so everything will be bland and the same, like literally every quest forcing you into a building so you cant bypass the mobs by just flying over them. a lot of cool and creative quest design options are killed once you have flying and you cant do flying only quest design because there will alwas be people who dont have a flying mount

You obviously don't appreciate excellent game design. Are you pretending to be retarded? You better not be ....

>best class balance and design state
oh lord, this is how to spot a wrathbaby

>have cool creative idea about a quest
>remember people can just ignore 90% of the quest and fly straight to the quest mob and kill him
>make another "kill 15 of this" quest instead

I played since vanilla dickbreath.

>People love to rag on WoD, but at least I only had to log on for raids and a few minutes each day for Garrisons.
fucking this. you get it. those of us who cared only about hardcore raiding actually got an expansion where that's all we had to do and pretty much nothing else.

I loved this because I was in Uni at the time and wouldn't have had time for the kind of bullshit that Legion and BFA introduced, the endless grinding and constant upkeep to keep play time up for no good reason. MoP was also very raider friendly in the same way IMO, and in general one of the best expansions.

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>creative wow quest
>only objective is to kill 1 guy
sounds about right

>Not acknowledging that Wrath was the best point in the game's history
Kill yourselves zoomers

>Wrath was the best point in the game's history
see
you fucking dumb nostalgic gorilla nigger. Wrath was when Blizzard starting killing the game for good players to support unskilled and lazy fucks.

designing quests is harddddd
at least you felt some sort of accomplishment when u finished a quest in classic it felt meaningful, tbc already had that retail feeling where quests are done way too fast and feel meaningless

>when that underage wrath baby roflsomps your painfully leveled classic mage with his deathknight in quest blues

Kz is a quest chain
Arca is a quest chain
Many preraids were chains as well
People just had reasons to do them instead of doing chain chores like You are Rakh Lik, demon

TBC was better. At least all of the classes/specs were playable.

casuals bitched vanilla quests were "annoying" so goddamn everything in tbc is a fetch quest

Maybe in PVE, but even then it still had its issues.
Vanilla had the greatest PVP class balance of any expansion. Every class has a win condition in casual battles that can make them seem overpowered.

>world of roguecraft
>rpgues ccing 3 people at once
>war +heal mages rogues
VS
>SL/SL
>mace rogues and CoS bullshit
>RMP
Yeah WoW pvp always sucked.

>be blood dk fresh outta starting zone
>on foot to dark portal
>see flagged 60 boomkin escorting his buddy in darkshire
>yeet on druid then dab on his lowbie friend as he watches from his corpse
I miss og blood

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dks were fucking disgusting at launch
>4 move rotation that basically one shots

Blood back when it was dps was gnarly as shit. It hit like a train and the constant heals made people seethe

Literally every criticism leveled is wrong. Wrath was the perfection of WoW.

You're not, because bc was straight up worse in most regards and the very start of the slow decline into what wow is now, just like fucking 6 small ass zones that you play in away from the rest of the world
this nigga here seems to already have made the point. flying removed and minimized player interaction, which you'd think if there are only a couple zones should have been 100x higher than vanilla but it was vastly less. daily quest bullshit was all over the place as standard

ulduar was the best content patch this game ever saw and you god damn know it

shame they fucked the rest up so bad

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lets agree that WOTLK and classic were 2 different games one is nit "better" than the other
but i can agree on that bc is just bad

>Wrath was the perfection of WoW.
Awful instanced questing in the open world everywhere, forget about seeing other players or grouping with friends. Trash pvp still, as every expansion after vanilla literally just sped up pvp into a faster interaction where damage outscaled health by miles from what it should, half the zones sucked dicked, the other half were pretty great, so nobody bothered with the ones that sucked dick. More daily quest garbage. Half the dungeons were objectively fucking trashfire central, especially the ones they patched in later, short ass linear nonsense you can complete in

>bc was straight up worse in most regards and the very start of the slow decline into what wow is now
>source: my ass

if vanilla had more snow and ice zones i wouldnt need WOTLK

flying removed player interaction in bc, which is why wrath had so many reasons to go down on the ground to collect resources and do quests and pvp, even if it was just to mess around

i have many fond memories of fighting over titanium deposits and getting typhooned off of cliffs or stunlocking people and seeing them get overrun with mobs in scholzar, icecrown, and randomly hopping into wintergrasp rounds

it was peak wow, they just fucked it up with CoC and icecrown

when are we REALLLLLYY going home lads

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Literally peak WoW

>best atmosphere
>flying was justified, made sense and it was good
>smaller world, good for pvp and farming
>comfy as fuck edgy dark atmosphere like hellfire alliance/horde base kino
>good dungeons and raid encounters
>actually fun quests

fucking miss old blizzard.

>small world
>280% flying
seriously once i had fast flying nagrand felt small as fuck, the whole map did, while classic still feels like a huge place even in retail with flying

The truth hurts user, but it's still the truth, sorry.

Eh, legitimate complaint I guess if you're horde the was only like 1 and then some partial snow areas in non snow zones.

And it doesn't work. You see another player? Whoops, mount up and fly the fuck away, which is what happened.
What you're describing happened in vanilla, except there was no way to just get the fuck out of dodge and avoid it all at 3 seconds notice. As people said, it's not just player interaction either, it's mob placement, questlines, respawns. You have to deal with none of it once flying mounts are in the game. Unless the place is indoors, no longer do you have to fight your way slowly into an area to get something and be aware of getting respawned on top of, then work your way back out.
Wintergrasp was fun, but ultimately terribly designed, it was a shadow of what it could have been.

Doubt we're ever getting to go back there user. I played the same thing though, fucking friends wanting to go empire side faggots, rip the cute sorc dream. Pvp and the quest system was fun though

MoP is better than wotlk, cata, wod, legion and bfa (although I never played bfa because I had no interest in it)
The only "problem" with the MoP was the pandas at least that's what ever shitposter says. MoP had the best class differences, best raids, solid pvp and there was a ton of shit to do at the world.

you're joking, right? any subscriber graph you look at for WoW will show you the decline starting in Cataclysm.

MOP was a good game on its own but a very shitty WOW universe game, unless you didnt play wow for the LOTR style fantasy setting, but if you dont play an mmo for the setting then youre just a soulless achivement farming bitch

Decline in player count is not the same thing as decline in design

it was also popular on Twitch. MoP was solid, what came after has been shit.

>Mfw people tell me Legion waw good
Yea i'm sure Diablo 3 lite was a wonderful expansion filled with original ideas and totally not ripped off by Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson. Legion fucking sucked and so does BfA.

I think it was a nice setting though, something fresh also the graphic was updated.

The problem with nu wow is that you play the carrot on the stick game more obviously than ever, you get the best gear and you can't even really use it anywhere because world pvp is dead, fuck blizzard.

>MoP is better than wotlk, cata, wod, legion and bfa
based and redpilled
>class gameplay across the board was at its best point
>pre squish crazy numbers
>Challenge mode dungeons / gear sets were fun as fuck and made skilled players millionaires
>amazing raids
>amazing art/music
>new class that didnt destabilize pvp/pve

Cata, hell wotlk already ruined wow universe and if you want to be honest with yourself tbc already shit on established characters just for the shock factor and because if you fight the in raid that will move copies. WOW universe is a dumpster fire since tbc.

>best raids
>good pvp
imagine actually being brain damaged enough to believe this lol

o-oh

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My wish is that if this happens and when we get to WoD blizzard gives actual good content to the xpac in order to use all of its potential and get a good version of WoD

it was though
game had the best pvp balance and actually fun, new arena also.
raids were one of the best in the entire wow history and thats just objectively true, ask any hardcore raider.

i would play an mmo where the whole universe is set in a MOP like place, but i didnt appreciate this setting forced into WoW (which is basically a warhammer knock off, which ultimately was a LOTR knockoff) it was clearly pandering and feels totally out of place now that the content isnt relevant anymore

why wotlk? since i played wc3 i quite liked the lore that we got in wotlk. i agree on tbc thoight, im not sure which braindead idiot thought putting interdimesional spacegoats into my LOTR setting was a good idea

No sad cat user, I'm sorry ;_; I'm not being mean. You are very much correct that playerbase kept increasing until wotlk, but their design choices consistently got less and less good from vanilla, there was just still enough to keep players interested until cata. Mostly I imagine, the fact that it was actually tied to wc3 until wotlk then it just abandoned all those characters for some new nonsense.

No time outside of vanilla had the best pvp balance. As I've said, pvp consistently got faster and more retarded with damage vs hp pools, and with every class being able to do more and more or clear more and more cc's on themselves. Nowhere outside of vanilla could you get 1v1s between any classes that could last for minutes on end with kiting and slowly chipping away at people. By mop, everyone had ways to fucking regen so chipping was irrelevant, it was bursts or nothing at all. And nothing except burst pvp, incase you didn't know, is hot garbage.
The raids were absolute nonsense from any kind of world and story standpoint, they were fucking stupid user.

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Good raiding doesn't justify all the cancer that TBC brought.

lets agree on that you people use the world "balance" in totally different ways every time, its a meaningless word, you should really specify what you mean in this case (like adressing homogenization, viabilty solo and in a group, gear dependence, skill dependence and so on)

t. still waiting for that Impending scarab drop to not be benched as a tank

theres people who play mmos purely for the social aspect and dont give a fuck about the lore and other things, so if they felt tbc was the best expansion simply because the raids were the most fun, then thats a valid reason i guess

you may not like it but cata/mop were peak pvp

yeah, if you like zoomer dota like pvp sure, but if you want some strategic tension and attrition like fights then its hot garbage indeed

Vanilla had more burst than tbc. Resilience outright removed burst specs from pvp viability. It was wrath onward that damage eclipsed hp

>lk does nothing let the enemies take northrend
>there always have to be a lich king
>let's kill each other because our dicks are bigger even tho it's help the common enemy
>kt does the same shit as in classic and suprised he loses again
>let's retake lorderon but nvm let's leave it as is
>ashbringer>frostmourne

>ashbringer>frostmourne
what's wrong with this

Tournament of Champions

well you have to admit that its not easy to make lore thats basically borrowed from peak literature (lovecraft, lotr, various folklore) and game mechanics play well together, of course its gonna end up in a sloppy hackjob too if you only have so much time to get the content done, lets not ecpect too much from videogames, they will never be art as long as the focus is on investment return

Repeating that over and over again doesn't make it so user. You retards have some kind of brain damage that makes you think current style arena pvp is good.

No it fucking didn't, nigger you can't lie to me I literally played the entirety of vanilla and the only burst outside of 6 second casts was like fucking super geared ms warriors who could 100 to like 5% a mage in 1 crit, but that also didn't end the fight. After vanilla, crits and even non crit burst cause they upped every cunts ability to do so almost always decide and end the fight immediately. No more 5 minute long duels between 2 dps classes with no heals because kiting was vastly less effective and one hit can decide everything. And oh yeah, don't get me started on the retarded pvp gear, resilience was a dumbass concept that was meant to be a bandaid for their poor game design changes, but ended up not even being a bandaid and making shit more unfun for everyone involved besides healers and objective controllers.

What's not wrong with it? Ashbringer is just a sword that's good against undead. Frostmourne is a living entity and eats souls, it's a bit of a different level.

>Ashbringer is just a sword that's good against undead
That's kind of underselling it a bit

PoM poly
Aim shot crits
At no point was I ever close to getting 1 shot in tbc even without resil

also arthas/frostmourne are lifted straight from moorcock's elric saga

i had skirmishes between classes in classic that would go on for more than half an hour because neither side could kill the other and eventually only ended because one side decided to fuck off, good times

My full t6 hunter almost got one shot by a shadowbolt. I wonder what was up with that.

ah yeah i heard about that, isnt that what also inspired conan or something? gotta read up on that one day

Love TBC, but PvP becomes completely unenjoyable in S3/S4 thanks to Resto Druids. One spec completely ruins any fun to be had in both BGs and arenas

>PoM poly
Ah yes, an instant cc that very much does not end the fight and does the opposite of damage? Gonna assume you mean pom pyro, which to one shot anyone was a 3 min cd + another 3 min cd + 2 trinket cds, and the spec was dogshit for pvp because killing one person every 3 minutes if you crit on a low hp class is terrible, never one shot higher hp classes, nothing did.

>Aim shot crits
Fat ass cast time for a hunter, interruptible, won't fire off if you literally move into the right range, and very much does not one shot or end the fight for the most part unless there is an enormous gear disparity. You see how the high damaging abilities mostly have huge pre-requisites and stipulations and aren't just instant whoops big damage

>"masterrrrrr, we need two new races! One for horde AND alliance!"
>"how long until ETA of this expansion?"
>"few days sir"
>"Just use Archimonde's design as a base and call them draenei I don't care"
>"are you sure? also what about the females?"
>"give them horns and tits so players can distinguish them from the males, also drop the chin tentacles for horny ones"
>"good good GOOD MASTER! VERY GOOD! I DO RIGHT AWAY"
In behalf of Akama fuck you

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Threadly reminder that you cannot /sit to proc shit in classic. This means enrage, reckoning stacks, eye of the storm, etc.
If you want to spot a pserver zoomer, wait for them to tell you to /sit.
This was fixed before 1.12 and is a private server bug, my zoomer friends. Please cease posting your zoomer hot tips that only apply to jank ass private servers coded by gold sellers.

Of note, it was possible to abuse /sit due to lag but it still stopped being a thing in retail vanilla despite what the sweaty pserver paladins will claim. Theloras, as an example, knows this and is a known liar.
Disregard anyone telling you to abuse /sit for easier warrior leveling. They are basically sliding up to you and whispering into your ear that they are a "vanilla veteran" and are an EXPERT on nostalrius. They probably want 15k chinks on their classic server too. Like Alexensual, they raided naxx when they were 12 and they can't prove it because their account was hacked/sold/banned/lives in canada and you dont know her.

>turn Eredar from interdimensional evil warlocks into space paladins that got made evil
>call them Draenei
>turn Kael, Vashj, and Illidan from outcasts trying to save their people into evil captain planet villains
>add space ships n shit
>add brown orcs
TBC was where it all started to fall apart.

>Logout jump macro
Nice game vanillafags

...

WoW only got good after cataclysm and MoP was peak
t. played since vanilla

BROS I FORGET WHICH ONE LETS ME STORM STRIKE FAGGOTS LIKE A CHAMP

i played a bunch of wotlk but barely remember any of it

BC

It's taking them over a year to make vanilla wow work despite them having access to the entire thing what the fuck is taking so long?

BC would be the best if it didn't complete ruin dungeons forever.

How the fuck did blizzard go from dungeon designs like BRD, Wailing Caverns, Mara, Stratholm, to corridors like Arcatraz, Mana Tombs, Hellfire ramparts??????

And then what? An ever cyclical wave of fans letting their nostalgia cloud their judgement playing the next iteration of the series?

you're just gonna shit on zul aman like that?

>Blizzard can continue to ride off WoW by just rereleasing existing content for 10 more years
*wrings hands* perfect

Ulduar was cool as shit. The raw size of the zone really helped you feel like a weak ass adventurer and it really helped with the immersion. Took that shitty naxx taste out of everyone's mouths. Too bad it was followed by shit tier ToC

>have the dumbest looking models and look the worst with armor
>most annoying run animation and attack animations
>by far the most annoying voices and combat noises
>have one good character in their entire lore from the race, and he gets killed off in favor of keeping some dumb new bitch alive cause "muh progressive women need to be heroes" bullshit

Draenei are the stupidest fucking race and it's not even close. Such a damn shame cause shaman has always been my favorite class but I could never force myself to play that dumb race. Should have just allowed Dwarves to be shamans in TBC instead of introducing those dumbass tentacle mexicans

COOL THAT'S THE ONE I WANNA PLAY

Draenei are eternal disappointment. I remember thinking the Draenei from the TBC cinematic looked so damn cool, and then I saw what they looked like in game.

and vehicles were total trash and have no place in raids. but yeah, optional bosses, non linear, huge zone, was decent.

hoping we get runescape classic shit, just add more to vanilla after naxx. no level cap increases, no big gear or stat changes, just add new zones and new dungeons and new raids one tier higher than the last, easy

Anyone who disagrees is a literal 0 IQ pleb

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>Blood
>DPS
>Not also a tank
Oh no no no shitter detected!
BDK was the best fucking meme, want to one shot people? Put DPS gear. Want to be a raid boss? Put tank gear.

didn't think it was possible to be this wrong. not only is BC not in the top tier, but its under mists and fucking legion of all expansions. good lord

returnofreckoning.com/

>be me, geared destro lock
>see some dumbass blood dk who thinks hes a chad with his ICC gear
>global him cause his dumbass doesn't have any good defensives to deal with casters cause he went blood spec

God I miss fighting blood memers in BGs

swap legion and BC

>putting MoP and Legion above BC
>putting LK in god tier and not BC
>pretending LK was better than BC when the only good raid in LK was Uldir

it's obvious that you're only mimicking what you hear everyone else who didn't play wow before Cata says. Stop trying to be contrarian for the sake of being cool.

wrath babby bros

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vehicles were fun at the time. it was a good example of trying to innovate. they did it for 1 boss, the first boss which was a fight that was pretty negligible anyways. it turned out to be fun but not great, so they didn't do it again, but kudos to them for trying in a way that didn't fuck their game over and then acknowledging it didn't work.
Nuwow is like, hey we have an idea, lets implement it globally across the board, do minimal testing, then defend our shitty decision when players dont like it and get mad and try to convince ourselves we're actually in the right and stick with it.

Fixed it for you

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Legion was complete garbage. You're actually a dumb fucking monkey if you thought it was better than anything but BfA and, even this is debatable, WoD.

MoP and WotLK should be switched, as should Legion and BC, but otherwise I'd agree.
>Never get to relive OG Brawlers Guild
>Hundreds of people in the instance either waiting their turn, discussing strats and mocking people getting BRUCE'd
>People couldn't outgear the fights initially so they actually had to learn how to play
>Chilling on the throne while watching plebs try to wallclimb up
>Dance party outside the map bounds
>Whole crowd going apeshit seeing the rare/high end bosses higher ranks were fighting
>GG spam for the gnome/goblin fight
It also served to show me how shit a lot of my guildies were at mechanics and their own class, I was the only person with Brawler in my guild until damn near WoD pre-patch.

although WotLK is 3rd behind Vanilla and BC, tier 10 was one of the best tier sets in the game.

>Put AMs
>Yeet faggot closer
>Hit that dab
>Hysteria and dancing rape weapon
>Grin
>Kill him in 3 GCD tops
>If not he casts on me and I pop 60 fucking million coils at him
Nice existence.
By ICC BDK and DK in general was fucking shit, people bitch about DK talk about release DK aka bullshit.

you guys seriously unironically put legion above cata? for as much that cata fucked up, at least classes still felt good for the most part and they were fun to play. it started with WoD but just continued into legion how classes were so fucking stale and nothing felt unique or good to play. they tried so hard to bring class identity back into the game with class halls, but it was like putting a band aid on the problem instead of actually fixing the root of it.

I don't want to play the expansion that ruined the Horde forever

anything past TBC belongs in nu-Blizz tier

Legion was shite for all sorts of reasons but it didn't neuter their dungeons because they couldn't be steamrolled by actual retards.
My unholy nigga. I never got why people only ever thought UH was only good for magic fights, if you played right you could survive literally everything and anything.

they didn't need to neuter their dungeons after release cause they were already released in a neutered state. legion is probably the easiest expansion ive ever played when it comes to hitting max and being able to clear heroics. shit was faceroll from the very start.

Name a more overrated raid.
Protip: You can't but ToT is a close second.

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>Legion was shite for all sorts of reasons but it didn't neuter their dungeons because they couldn't be steamrolled by actual retards.
They didn't need to, all the dungeons were already neutered at launch

>ruined in 1 patch
>expansion was a joke
>added fucking skaven to BOTH FACTIONS
>EA made a shitty arena moba out of its remains
Everything I heard about AoR after launch was terrible, it's probably for the best it continues on in private servers.

>clear heroics
>HC dungeons
>Ever hard
Please post your 0% parses.

I thought you were talking about trolls until the end
I didn't thought about the parallels stories between yrel and sylvanas but damn

based and TBCpilled

>Make pvp oriented mmo (big mistake)
>Keep tab bar mmo """"combat"""" (massive mistake)
>Release it close to wow instead of after wow releases an xpac and in the middle of said xpac (Utter retarded move)
>Warhammer game where you can't play as skaven when every single furry shit is an instant whale for their faggot skaven
If it was a mordheim like game where you attempt to control the city and can play as skaven I can ensure you it wouldn't die based on furries alone.

Wrath was the first time that subs had ever dropped in number

BC was when shit started rolling downhill.

Making it smaller scale would have made more sense, and probably would've let them say it was actually a part of the main warhammer fluff instead of this alternative timeline crap. Though with the End Times that's kind of a good thing.

As said, MMOs are a fucking stupid genre to invest big games in (at the time with the success of Wrath everyone sperged and tried to make mmos without grasping blizzard was also at the apex of popularity AND wrath was the culmination of WC3 and everyone played WC3), if reckoning would've been Mordheim online as an instanced pvp/pve similar to vermintide with pseudo-open world mechanics to control zones to give you buffs and shit it would have been kept alive, but releasing it without adding waifubait and autist bait races is dumb.
Literally only waifubait race is elves and while elves are massive autists they pale in the shade of furries.

This.

Reminder if you're rolling Druid in classic to heal 5 mans you will be discriminated against.

>Classic content
>Hard and requiring autistic stacking of classes
>Any wow content at any time except retarded bullshit like +20/pre nerf mythic raids/some pre nerfing raids
>Requiring stacking of any kind

Ammo, pet happiness/leveling, soul shards, having to craft poisons, class quests, and dumb abilities like this are what make classes special. That's what modern WoW is missing.

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this is what peak warrior looks like

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have you ever met an SP?

BC was when i stopped being a casual and actually took part in raiding.

kara was so much fun. fuck flying mounts though.

killed expropriation and World pvp.

Hopefully never. I want all the TBCcucks to die.

When there will be a WarCraft RTS with good story and gameplay, no WoW stuf. AKA NEVER.

For me? Ill be rolling a paladin.

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>tfw really hoping nobody rolls shaman so I can be a niche snowflake

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I love wrath but god damn did it introduce a lot of casuals. People shit on cataclysm, but that is false. Wrath babbies did it.

TBC With vanilla pvp ranks(plus arena as a separate thing) and without flying is wow's full potential.

Wrong. Wrath was the beginning of the end

>God
Vanilla
>Based
BC, Pandaria, early Cataclysm
>Decent
Legion
>Shit
Wrath, Draenor, BFA, late Cataclysm

So going off the consensus in this thread, TBC had the best raids and better class design but is otherwise a step down from vanilla in every way. Correct?

BC is when they fucked the markets and started needless power creep.

You may be onto something there bucko

>thinks wrath was shit

I never liked the ranking system and how it rewards poopsocking more than anything else, but while i love arena i dont enjoy it becoming "the main" form of pvp, and resilience didn't help either.
I'm not sure what the best system would be as I'm mostly a dipshit.
I am curious how even if arena was a separate optional thing, how you would even get people motivated for it outside of "fun". Vanilla already has areas with arenas like dire maul and STV, and those saw use rarely but outside of the chest event not really. Sometimes for organized contests, which is fun too but not the same.
basically I wonder if the absence of rewards would mean people fucked with it for a week and then fucked off.

LF1M DPS FOR DURN THE HUNGERER!
youtube.com/watch?v=JyJ9ntYLcvc
I loved nagrand so much.

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Wrath made WoW easy as fuck, the dungeons were mediocre at best and Northrend is the worst levelling areas in the entire game's history. Uldir and ICC are the only things going for it.

PvP was purdy fun

>back when elite quests were a thing and you had to team up with people to do them.

just one of the many things blizz axed.

>Wrath made WoW easy as fuck
Yeah the game was much harder in vanilla on my warlock where the rotation consisted of maintaining a corruption and shadowbolting for 4 tiers

>but dOOOd you could just spam dungeons with a tabard for rep, get welfare gear with tokens and dungeon finder that wasnt introduced until later in the expansion

Why the fuck are does an orc kill Naga in the cinematic when they are allies to blood elves? Am I missing something?

Elite (world) quests that you need a group to do are still a thing, but with the existence of the group finder, cross-realm groups, and not being restricted to parties only means they're shit.
So they still kind of exist, but they're shit because of other elements.

only vashj's naga were friends with the blood elves. all others are generic evil mooks, which is why kael had trouble trusting vashj in the first place.

Illidan and co (Kael'thas & his belfs, Vashj and her naga) are the bad guys in TBC.
It is confusing though. I still don't get how naga teamed up with leper gnomes in Steamvault.

i really miss that stuff. i remember when i was still new to wow and got that quest for king bangalash. cant remember if he was an elite or just a really strong normal mob, but he destroyed me several times when i tried to solo. i think hes just a basic trash mob now

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>tfw you had your friends help you tame him.

i once thought if you tame an elite animal, it would still be an elite and stronger then normal animals. sad that was not true. still a good pet though.

Not early Wrath cause Ulduar was my shit. Later Wrath can lick me ass.

>he wants to do ulduar 10 and 25 man again every week for a year

unironicly kys

Some were. Brokentooth was one that maintained a unique factor or the wolf from Darkshire that did shadow damage instead of physical. There were a few of them around that were slightly unique and had purposes.