Can we discuss the flaws on this game? Not talking about the character gameplay itself. As an action game...

Can we discuss the flaws on this game? Not talking about the character gameplay itself. As an action game, I dare to say it is the most complex ever made. But there is something wrong with AI and enemy design. They are not Musou-tier bad, but I feel them shit most of the time. Even on DMD. Besides some very few exeptions, almost every enemy is just doomed if it's a one on one fight. Also, I notice they don't interact very often in group fights. Sometimes they are there just to be hitted. This is very contradictory with the game due to the FUCKTON of tools that Nero and especially Dante have to counter enemy attacks

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the only real flaws that i can see of this game is:

V heavily lacking in content and fun
Story near the end is very poorly written and paced
There really is no real challenge other than "enemy has quadruple the health and you get 1-shot" difficulty
Some of the bosses are incredibly forgettable
Good portion of the music is shit
and of course, no DLC content or playable Vergil

All that being said, its still my GOTY.

Also, corridor based stage design.

Yeah, the enemies aren't as shit as in DMC4, but they are just a little better than in DMC3. It's only a fight if it's 5 vs you at least. The only enemy type that actually puts up a fight is Fury. Everything else is a threat only if it catches you in the side while you are fighting something else.

I unfortunately have to agree on all of those

Yeah the unarmored enemies are too easy and the armored or blocking ones are boring. They're not aggressive enough and there's too few of them.
Also despite his arsenal, Dante really lack mobility, I was constantly running at mobs because they keep staggering and moving backwards just out of reach.
Nero's Buster should have been unlocked earlier and it needs more variations.
The game unironically needed more padding, especially Dante's parts. I barely had the time to get a feel of his basic loadout before getting more new weapons.

>Also despite his arsenal, Dante really lack mobility, I was constantly running at mobs because they keep staggering and moving backwards just out of reach.
I agree with your opinion but this. DMC5 Dante is the most overpowered and the fastest in the franchise. Tricker is fucking overpowered here. Spamming air trick, and now, ground trick makes you reach enemies faster than ever.

Yeah but using trick for basically 2 steps feel like it breaks the flow.

Tree goo levels felt boring towards the end and V sucks

>enemies blend in the bg way more than i like to admit
they should be neon colored cuz i swear Hell anetoras are fucking chameleons

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I thought I was the only one user... thanks

Y’all are fucking ingrateful faggots.

Ace rebuttal, champ. As if one cannot criticize that which they enjoy.

Literally all you have to do to make the end hit home is give a couple more missions to add more gravitas and build up to the conclusion. DMC3 had you go to anti-Heaven and fight all the bosses again, stop Arkham and then you fall into Hell with Vergil and have a great pre-fight back and forth.

In DMC5 Vergil pops up, there's one short mission with a boss fight and then oh look it's the end. Give us, like, 3 missions in between Vergil popping up and you fighting him. Also make the fight take place in space.

Not that I didn't find the ending enjoyable but in retrospect it could have been much more dramatic than it ended up being.

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Zero game DMC games for over 10 years, the guy obviously put all his effort perfecting the game yet you stupid shitposters always find a way to shit on it.

>Can we discuss

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Based, fuck shitposters, this is now a DMCV thread.
Barry must be around here.

...And it isn't perfect. Do you think otherwise? In what respects? Do you truly believe nothing is wrong with Gilgamesh, amd that ot perfectly plays to the strengths of a stylish action game?

Many of the enemies were also variants of themselves

>Bug but bigger
>Bat but explodes
>Lizard but covered in blades
>Lizard but an asshole
>Floating wizard fat ass/goat man that never gets an attack off

>shit on it
No one shitting on the game, we just want these flaws to not come back in later sequels and to improve upon them, that's what someone will do if he truly loves the games, not turn a blind eye and say the game is perfect as is

A product's quality isn't a function of effort invested, if it ends up being shit, it stays shit even if you tried your best.
my life is a perfect example

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Dude you have no idea how happy I am for having this game. I love it. It IS fun. But there are some flaws that have been repeated since dmc3. The whole enemy architecture HAS to be remade.

what mango is that?

I do wish that DMC had enemies like Ninja Gaiden that will come for your ass and never stop. DMC is too married to its lock on and in 4 and I'm 90% sure in 5 most enemies won't attack you if you aren't looking at them.

If they make a 6 they should change this and if it's too hard for people they can go back to Human mode.

Boku no Citrus

I love Dante!

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That is impossible with the MO of DMC. If enemies pressure the player in a relentless manner, the player will never get off an SSS without severely lowering the amount of moves it takes to achieve an SSS

i agree about the enemy variety but at the same time 4 was kind of the same, imo. and i think 3 aswell? its been a while since i played so i mightve forgotten

this
Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I get some people just don't like the story in 5 but I thought it was fine, really the main thing that bothered me other than a few awkward lines (Lady saying she's gonna go double check to see if everyone made it out okay and then just walks in the opposite direction of everyone else like ??) was that the final part with Vergil happened too fast. We got that one level where you play as Dante and fight V's summons (which was a cool idea) but then Nero just gets there? Either V reuniting with Urizen needed to happen earlier or the game needed to be a few missions longer, like maybe the length of DMC1.

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You can get reasonable combos in NG, I don't see why DMC couldn't do the same with a bit of tweaking. It just feels kinda lame when 80% of the enemies are just punching bags for your enjoyment rather than something that needs to be overcome.

They could have saved themselves some time if we didn't waste 3 missions/bosses fighting Urizen just to lose to him.

>I don't see why DMC couldn't do the same with a bit of tweaking
Yeah, as I said:
>the player will never get off an SSS without severely lowering the amount of moves it takes to achieve an SSS

You wouldn't need to necessarily lower the moves. Just make the enemies 50% as aggressive. Just make the game a little more about crowd control than smart use of the camera to keep enemies off screen.

Not enough Dante
I think V is fine but I agree that he could have had more variety
Story is too fan servicey, Vergil just being the villain again is lame
V and Urizen should have been unique characters

>Story is ass
>Environments feel samey and get boring quick
>Level design is ass just like the reboot
>V is a missed opportunity character wise and gameplay wise
>No breaker switching with Nero is determent to his play
>Stupid reasons for removing inertia and reversals

I still like the game tho

>the player will never get off an SSS without severely lowering the amount of moves it takes to achieve an SSS
you are wrong, since defensive moves give you a good amount of points to achieve an SSS

And and also no BP COOP

youre forgetting one thing, ninja gaiden and DMC play nothing alike, one is about quickly and efficiently killing everything and the other is all about style, watch an ng combo video and compare it to DMC, its literally ryu zipping around chopping heads and i-framing through exploding shurikens, not that im shitting on ninja gaiden but its a whole different beast.

It won't work because getting off an SSS the majority of the time requires one on one comboing. As it is now, if you try to air combat a foe, an increased aggression will knock you out of the air, ruining the combo. It simply doesn't work for DMC.

I wish the harder difficulties spiked the fuck out of their aggression. RE4 on pro mode gave enemies a bit more health, made them do more damage, and then made them like 5 times more aggressive. It made the game super fun.

Granted DMC design is all about shutting an enemy down and being able to do a length combo on them, it still really feels like they could have made enemies more aggressive without making them overbearing.

The game is still crazy goddamn fun though.

Yeah, there were too damn many Urizen fights. Only the one were he actually stands and fitghts you with the roots and his final one are any good.

>V and Urizen should have been unique characters
Fucking this. Making them Vergil divided sides was just stupid. Urizen was a good character until I found out he was just Vergil's demon half. Same with V, Also, I found V's characterization so great... I'd wish he didn't "die". I know his gameplay was too basic and repetitive, but I'd love to see him back.

>Stupid reasons for removing inertia and reversals
Would you explain this please?

>majority of the time requires one on one comboing
Well it can be made like that, but not in my case. Not with this Trickster.

V was very interesting to me because we haven't seen many demon hunters who aren't already related to Dante in some way
It would have been interesting to expand on V as a unique demon hunter
but no, he's just Vergil because we needed Vergil for the fanservice final boss

>Story is too fan servicey, Vergil just being the villain again is lame
I literally do not understand this sentiment at all, he was the final boss/villain in one other game

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Yes... And having to fight him AGAIN as the final boss is lame.

>make one of the greatest action game ever with the highest enemy variety and combo depth, and gorgeous graphics
>create genuine innovations to the dmc core like behemoths / empusa queens and V
>while simultaneously not creating gimmicky or annoying enemies or bosses that ignore the rules set by the game
>lol but the story and level design is not good

In 5 years every game will be Horizon Zero Dawn and it'll be all your fault

Am I the only one that struggled super hard on that Virgil fight on SoS mode? I breezed through the game up until that point and then I got stuck on him for hours. Shit was brutal.

At least the fight was mechanically great, I just wish we had a proper new antagonist.

I genuinely don't understand the complaints about the level design, it has some of the best level design ever put into a DMC game. Tons of diversity, from tight rooms to giant open areas, tons of verticality, and a bunch of diverse locations.

The only thing DMC1 and 3 have over it are the fact that you can go off the beaten path and find weird enemies to fight.

Also yeah, the enemy diversity in DMC5 is legit amazing, along with the fact that every weapon Dante has has its own unique mechanics. Rebellion and A&R in DMC3 felt so goddamn samey to me that I never really bothered with A&R, in 5 every weapon has its own fun mechanics.

Cavaliere is one of the best weapons in the series.

stoy, level design AND enmy design and AI are bad. Read the fucking OP.

It's by a wide margin the best enemy design in the series, and a stand out for all action games, this is a fact.

sandbags are not a good reference for other action games. But it's ok if you enjoy it.

Me and millions of others, something about having the most complex combo system in a game must interest people.

character gameplay is not being discussed.

>character gameplay itself
jesus fucking christ kill yourself zoomer faggot

You can't really discuss one without the other, they're two design elements that are very tightly tied together.

what a fuck is character gameplay ? How retarded can someone be..

So enemy AI is great because your character plays great. Sure.

The AI is intentionally more passive and less of a threat to enable you to actually be able to explore the combo system.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it was very obviously done with this intent.

>The AI is intentionally more passive and less of a threat to enable you to actually be able to explore the combo system.
So DMC4 wasn't enough

This might be a controversial opinion, but does anyone think DMC5 is TOO complex?

I can play DMC3 on DMD fairly well, but in 4 and 5 I just fucking suck at the game due to stuff like style switching and managing Devil Breakers being too much for my brain to handle. I had to use 7 gold orbs against Vergil on Devil Hunter mode whereas in DMC3 I can beat with with an S rank and no damage.

I miss when all you had to worry about was weapon switching.

>threat to enable you to actually be able to explore the combo system.
That's only true for the Empusa's which are suppose to be weak sandbag tier enemies to practice on and explore the combat as you said, the rest aren't ment to be a non-threat, especially the Angelo's and Fury or even the sin scissors and nobodies

And why don't you just not styleswitch?
>but does anyone think DMC5 is TOO complex?
Also, no. Once you start to get into it, the game gets really fun.
Just use the Void. Practice it there.

Than just play it like DMC3, use the style you find best and pick up two swords and two guns and done, as for Nero I don't think he's that complex at all but more of a gamble like character with the breakers you just have to improvise at the moment of action
>I had to use 7 gold orbs against Vergil on Devil Hunter mode
>using items
>7 fucking times
You were probably just rusty but sheesh dude

you are never ever meant to actually walk towards your enemies with dante
if you're not using stinger, you should air-trick, revolver, or anything. never walk