Mine is tied between Suikoden II and Chrono Cross. The former is a brilliant story about duality between two young men that were friends and grew up to be enemies on opposing sides. It is real and it is gritty. War feels like war. Some elements are toned down to be simple but I find this works well with the Eastern themes.
The latter is a bit more abstract, as the question of “what is a soul” haunts throughout the game, mostly told through small vignettes that extrapolate on this and allow you to make the answer for yourself. It is a deeply philosophical story about life, destiny, and exploring the consequences of our actions.
So iconic that thousands of video games have that story
Adam Allen
It is interesting to me how AAA gaming is obsessed with mimicking Hollywood but these stories from the 90s and early 2000s had their own distinct identity and told powerful stories without having to try and pretend to be a movie.
Colton Butler
>It is a deeply philosophical story about life, destiny, and exploring the consequences of our actions. What the actual fuck is happening in Chrono Cross? Serious question.
>Jowy understands that Lucca is going to burn the fucking world down >plots and machinations his way to the fucking top >his buddy could have just surrendered and said yeah let's end this stupid war that I don't even want to actually participate in and never did, here ya go >nobody lets him because he's THE SHIELD and a SYMBOL TO THE PEOPLE
I love Suikoden II to death and play it at least once a year because fuck yeah. But man....so many chances to end all the fighting and let King Fucking Jowy be a just ruler over all the land but noooooooo muh shield symbol and ever-expandin' castle'n shit.
Jack Barnes
Well, on the surface, it is a simple story of boy must save/correct time. Not that much unlike Trigger except it is about alternate dimensions instead of time periods. Beneath that though, it is about looking at the very identity of people and seeing if that changes when their circumstances differ. Serge is dead in the alternate timeline, then becomes Lynx. You have Kid and Harle, who are both mirror images of Schala, and can see how similar and different they are. You have the murder of Dario in one timeline and another where he survives and can see how that affects those who knew him. You also have Skelly who takes the message pretty literally. Then you also have the dragons who were given the same power in history that humans had at one point and see them fight back. I find it to be a very interesting game, especially for its time.
I agree but that had little chance of happening when they tried murdering Riou and Nanami at the peace conference. It was a major mistake on their part to do that.
Nathan Gray
You know, I recently ran through Trigger and paid closer attention to some details I maaaaay rushed before. I tried to talk to most (if not all NPCs), did probably all the sidequests - except for that in middle ages with some women who tries to save the forest, because I had no fucking idea where am I supposed to go (and I didn't want to look at the FAQ) - and maybe understood some parts better. Although, I still dont' quite understand what the hell is that green portal that appears near the end of the game in prehistory and 600 (or is it 1000?) A.D., where you do quests for reptites. Was than some sort of an anomaly, or some of them actually survived when Lavos came down? I was a kid when I first played this game, don't shoot me.
Also, the normal ending was really weird. All the portals are closed, but you still have Epoch. But does that mean you can go ''back to the future'', in 2300 A.D. and, if you do, is the future the same as it was when you first got there, or is it changed (because Crono and the gang defeated Lavos)?
Hell, maybe I'll understand Cross better if I give it another shot.
Owen White
Agree, chrono cross is atmosphere. Love that game and just want to go to Arni Village for a day.
Mason Carter
Xenogears is still the greatest video game story ever told.
Xenogears story reads like some edgy teenager's Evangelion and Gundam fanfiction.
Josiah Bailey
Sold.
Carter Sanchez
I meant literally. As in, he literally becomes Lynx's image for a large portion of the game.
Alexander Hernandez
OK, seriously, that's Perfect Works? I heard some things about this game and how the final product slightly different than it was intended. Also, how tied are Xenogears and Xenosaga? I played all 3 XS games (still hoping for HD remaster), but never bothered with XG.
Pretty sure Leon gave him bad advice on purpose just so he could prove he was better than Shu. Extremely bad fuck up on Jowy's part. All he had to do was ask nicely instead of threaten Theresa and MC and the shit would have ended. But then we wouldn't have gotten to see the sweet Beast Rune, so there's silver(burg) lining to that at least.
Adam Russell
I'm playing through suikoden II right now and the writing is atrocious. Like its borderline unacceptable it's so badly written. Why the fuck do jrpgs always have their writing praised when they're objectively bad. Love the game itself though
Daniel Sanchez
What I find interesting is how few if any JRPGs really did the whole war thing like Suikoden. Even if you disregard having a HQ, recruiting characters, etc it does not feel like a story about JRPG protagonists saving the world.
The story of Chrono Cross is so convoluted that you need to write down several paragraphs just to summarize it.
Aaron Roberts
>The latter is a bit more abstract, as the question of “what is a soul” haunts throughout the game, mostly told through small vignettes that extrapolate on this and allow you to make the answer for yourself. It is a deeply philosophical story about life, destiny, and exploring the consequences of our actions.
all while shitting on a good game in the process
Jacob Edwards
talking about writing in jrpgs is kinda pointless because you're always reading a translation which can vary wildly and you really have no way to tell without knowing both languages involved. not everything is ff12, for example.
Isaac Flores
I'm not talking about the dialog necessarily though I'm talking about the overarching plot itself.
Jeremiah Anderson
Perfect Works was the original overarching idea for the entire Xeno series that never came to fruition but is still up there in limbo. Xeno was going to be split into numerous parts taking place in different universes, timelines and eras that still tied into a greater story and Xenogears was originally meant to be a trilogy reflecting this.
Xenogears and Xenosaga AREN'T literally connected for legal reasons, though Xenosaga (and Xenoblade thanks to 2) shares plenty of obvious plot threads and ideas taken from Xenogears. The director/writer of the games even said that he's not allowed to say that Gears and Saga are connected, but said it's up to fan interpretation. What happens in Xenosaga DOES line-up with what was originally drafted in Perfect Works.
Then there's Xenoblade that didn't really tie-into Perfect Works until 2 came along and now Xenoblade is either spiritually connected to Gears and Saga the same way Saga is to Gears, or its a reboot of Perfect Works altogether.
Fans like to think that Xeno was meant to be connected by the director, but he can't outright say or confirm it due to legal issues but gives hints by making the three main parts line-up with Perfect Works and share the same concepts, plot threads, themes, and of course, the Zohar.
Jaxson Allen
Well, it's about the True Runes having minds of their own. Also, Sword and Shield are destined to fight. I always thought reason why Jowy couldn't just give up and make Highland surrender was because he became YOU for their side - a hero who brought down the mad prince and got everyone's loyalty because of it.
Christopher Morgan
Thank you, user!
Aaron Thomas
Bring robo with you to the lady who wants to save the forest. Kill the evil sub-desert dweller and leave robo in the past. Go into the future(1000ad) and it'll be fixed up after lucca tinkers with him. You'll get something, i forget what, but something.
if it appeared in the game it probably wasn't an anomoly, but if i remember right, lavos appearing is slowly cooling the planet and they are dying and need you to do some stuff or something. Haven't played it in awhile. Make sure you get the sunstone and all those rainbow shells and make the Rainbow sword for crono and the hats that cast protect on you, or haste, i don't remember which. Also you can do the game without chrono.
There's like 8 endings or something, defeat lavos in each of the time zones for a different one I think. The best is when you defeat him by yourself in one of them.
Jose Hill
Misinformation the post
Isaac Hernandez
>triggerniggers escape from their cribs to shit up the thread will you faggots fuck off already? nobody said an unkind word about CT yet here you are waving your tiny dicks around. cross is a great sequel and a definitive pleb/brainlet filter. you should feel genuinely bad that you don't enjoy it
What part of my post is misinformation, pray tell? Go ahead, prove any of what I said wrong. You can't, because all of it is true and you don't want anyone spoonfeeding. Well too fucking bad, i'm the goddamn spoon feeding master.
Camden Ortiz
I was under the impression that Harle was a part of the dragons, which is why she disappears when they emerge.
James Sanchez
>Make sure you get the sunstone and all those rainbow shells and make the Rainbow sword for crono and the hats that cast protect on you, or haste, i don't remember which. Also you can do the game without chrono. I did get that sword, but since I played the Steam version, and that version is based on Android version (which is based on NDS version) the strongest weapon for Crono is the one you get after you beat additional dungeons and optional boss, the one that wasn't in SNES version. I can't remember its stats, but that fucking thing has 90 (!!!) % chance of critical hit! >There's like 8 endings or something, defeat lavos in each of the time zones for a different one I think. The best is when you defeat him by yourself in one of them. 13 endings for the achievements, plus 2 bad endings that don't give achievements and are not listed in the Ending section. (aka under the Extra menu that appears once you beat Lavos for the first time) And about that ending you mentioned... If you're thinking about beating Lavos as soon as you start NG+ and go to Millenial Fair, yes, you can use Marle in that fight, too. Just instead of approaching the left telepod you go straight to right. if you use the left telepod and Chrono appears on the right (which is part of the story itself) Marle will be removed from your party.
Brayden Cook
Can confirm. I've tried to explain the plot for and it's ourageously long.
Aiden Bell
I like FFX story it made me love and hate some of the characters in it.
yeah i sure loved that clusterfuck of a story i really enjoy reading 30 pages of wiki to find out what the fuck i have been playing
Samuel Flores
One of the three sages from Chrono Trigger used Robo to make an AI that terraformed the archipelago where the game takes place. If I remember correctly, the purpose was to hide it from Porre who had invaded the main continent and killed the protagonists of CT. I'm pretty sure he wanted to manipulate time to prevent that catastrophe. But as a result of his playing god with the timelines, Lavos from a timeline where he wasn't destroyed took control of Schala and became some kind of magical time monster that was trying to consume all of time. There's more to it than that though, it's pretty complicated and I didn't grasp a lot of it when I played the game.
I was talking about MC's chances to surrender. NOBODY would let him do it. They all give bullshit reasons, but Jowy was CLEARLY the better choice for ruler, and he did it with only a handful of followers believing in him. Highland was the better choice to rule because everyone else was a squabbling fuckpile of bullshit(The jowston hill meeting you get to attend is prime example.) I wanted Glorious King Jowy to win because he actually had a plan, MC was just sort of doing whatever Shu wanted at any given time(who becomes the ruler of the republic if you get the best ending anyway,)
>New game+ >JOWY MODE ENGAGE
Would have unloaded all over my pants and still would. Goddamn man. Goddamn.
Carter Reed
But this is what confused me the most. I thought that alternate timeline started when Serge drowned.
David Collins
There's a lot going on but it's not especially hard to understand or anything. If dumbass 14 year old me can understand it I'm sure you guys can.
David Clark
The amount of endings, and the fact beating the game at different times isn't how you unlock them. That's the easiest one to point out with the least amount of typing.
Mason Richardson
Chrono Cross could be the greates game of all time if it had a normal story.
The story is literally it's weakpoint, everything other was god tier. The OST the characters the setting and atmosphere.
Noah Russell
>people praising CC My absolute brothers, I love the game. Gears too, they're both amazing games with god tier art direction and soundtracks and really unique story threads. They aren't without flaws but I prefer a flawed gem over a polished turd anyday. Chrono Cross in particular has one of the most unique atmospheres in vidya. The soundtrack, art direction, and fractured story layout all come together to create this unparalleled dreamy feel. There really isn't anything like it in my book, just listen to this track: youtube.com/watch?v=QsTezaWM2BY
Xenogears far and away has the better story and characters, but I think Cross did the whole "controlling people with the save points" thing better.
I started to like convoluted plot with Vagrant Story. FromSoft with AC4 and BB are peak performance.
Dylan Diaz
Nice. I only played SNES version, so my info may be wrong. But getting the rainbow is literally gotten after running through dungeons and beating bosses and gathering rare shit to have a legendary smith make it for you. It's crit rate is up there, you sure that ain't what i'm/you are talking about?
Elijah Wright
>controlling people with the save points
what does this mean? i played Chross a long time ago.
You are right about the cap thing. You can pick between one armor (or was it robe?) or 3 caps. They give you immunity to tall status effects, which is a good thing. The sword you're talking about is Swallow (right?), and yes it is powerful, but the strongest weapon is Dreamseeker which you get after you beat this boss. Spoiler ahead:
>punished for leveling up my party >punished for leveling up my weapons >punished for not having the exact proper formation for a random battle i have no control over >punished because there's literally 4x more enemies than you
I liked it at first but the deeper I got into the story and game itself the more bullshit everything got and I actually dropped it around second disc. I feel ashamed for not figuring it out but fuck man, being punished for everything I do or don't do and have no idea what i'm doing wrong without looking at a guide?(Fuck that I hate using guides.)
Angel Collins
No you're right, I'm just sketchy on details since I'm going from memory. Yeah this game has the most convoluted story. Just trying to describe it makes me realize how little I understand it. The timeline split with Serge but it was because of his presence at Chronopolis as a result of the panther attack that caused his father to bring him there for help. FATE corrupted his dad into Lynx, and used Serge as the catalyst for something or other.
Tyler Jackson
>Mine is tied between Suikoden II and Chrono Cross. The former is a brilliant story about duality between two young men that were friends and grew up to be enemies on opposing sides. It is real and it is gritty. War feels like war.
>it is real and gritty >most of your party members are cheery children and fluffy animal mascots
>the zohar in Xenosaga was found in a lake in Kenya >the conduit (zohar in the file's name) in Xenoblade 2 was found in a lake in Africa Xeno lore is a fucking endless rabbithole
SNES it was Rainbow, and you got it from that smith dude if you got sunstone, rainbow shell, and some other thing, and you could still get a couple of those caps if you picked it.
I don't remember ever beating that enemy at the end of time, so you're probably right about there being another weapon I didn't find(unless they added it for whatever version that is, who cares, still looks cool.) Fuck me running.
Colton Gutierrez
You forgot:
>Arts are learned randomly. >Skill usage is selected randomly. >Stat gains are random and the only affecting factor is if the enemy was: normal, rare or boss (increased odds with rising difficulty of mob) >Equipment can influence skill usage but only to a certain degree. If the game's random gen decided to not use magic, you're stuck not being a mage.
Then it gets even worse. >Classes are based on stats, arts and usage - none of which you have any real control on. >Pathing in the class tree, as explained above, is very random. >Some class branches end early and you can get stuck there unable to access your next class. >Without using a trainer on PC, there is no way of 'fixing' a dead-ended character.
It's toned down on PC, but if you level too much on console, the leveling system scales enemies to an absurd point. Eventually they just have too much HP to take down easily, and the bosses are basically unbeatable.
Yes. The Home and Another World timelines were split by Kid saving Serge. The problem with this whole fucking series is that time is being manipulated at different points, by multiple characters.
Grayson Campbell
I played it awhile ago too but iirc the save points actually exist in the game world, unlike in most games where they only show up for the player to record their progress. You see this in Arni village at the very beginning, where people remind you to record your memories in the "fate sphere". I also think that it shows people their future (if you're going to die, etc), as I remember one character saying something along the lines of "if you check your fate sphere and it doesn't show anything, you should just go to sleep". Anyway it turns out it was FATE telling people what to do, or taking away free will, or something. Xenogears did something similar where Solaris uses the save points to collect data on the lives of land dwellers. No idea how accurate that is but it feels about right. I played Xenogears a few months ago and it reminded me of Cross, which I haven't played in years.
>Yeah this game has the most convoluted story. Just trying to describe it makes me realize how little I understand it. This, I'm realizing the same thing now that I'm trying to explain it. Still, I prefer a thematically original story like this that makes me thing, even if it has loose ends and plot holes, over something more generic and simple.
Brody Phillips
Forget Norway.
Camden Clark
>Xenogears is still the greatest video game story ever told. I can't say I agree. It would take an entire college thesis to completely detail the awfulness of the writing, but here's perhaps the most damning example of Xenogears' atrocious writing: lparchive.org/Xenogears-(by-The-Dark-Id)/Citan/
The link lists the exploits of a certain character, who the writers obviously intended to be seen as sympathetic and one of the good guys. But because Xenogears' story structure is so ridiculously convoluted, with crazy revelations and shocking twists happening at every turn, examining the actions of that character for even a minute leaves one no choice but to conclude that said character is utterly despicable, because the writers had no qualms about twisting characters to faciliate their convoluted rollercoaster of a story. This is how the entirety of Xenogears' story is constructed: it's all style with no substance. All surface depth, appearing to be deep by name-dropping just about every philosophical and religious concept in existence, but exhibiting about as much understanding of those concepts as a 4-year old.
Another strike against the game is that half of it is missing. The second disc of the game is basically like having a friend tell you all about how amazing the game is while occasionally handing you the controller to fight some boss battles. I have no idea why people gave it a free pass while completely losing their shit over something like the Mass Effect 3 ending.
Lastly, it has the same issue that most Japanese games suffer from. Maybe this is a fault of lackluster translation, but the dialogue feels like it came straight out of a machine translation. Everyone speaks in every basic English that fails to give characters a distinct voice and presence. As a result, every interaction in the game just blurs together in a sea of generic expository dialogue.
No wonder I was doing everything wrong. I don't feel so bad. Did they make that game just to see how far the autism could go in some people or something? Is it a fucking training program for super soldiers of the future? Christ. Now I don't feel so bad for putting it down when I couldn't beat anything anymore.
Alexander Roberts
Really good story and superb writing. Too bad the actually gameplay is mediocre as fuck
It's just the kind of game that expects you to embrace RNG and fight with one hand tied behind your back. Following a guide essentially ruins it. Strangely enough PC version is the definitive one. Or was until very recently where they essentially released it on consoles as a Remastered edition or something.
Cooper Myers
As much as I liked Cross, I wasn't much a fan of the portait art. Some characters looked good (Serge, Mojo), some looked okay (Kid, Fargo), and then we had shit like pic related and the fat black lady with purple hair. It was just all over the place.
I love the CC character artwork, just hate the compressed avatars they used ingame.
Jordan Thomas
I'm still annoyed Fargo was one of only three characters who could steal from enemies.
Alexander Lewis
Cross is a great game, but it a crap sequel to Chrono.
It is just another example of games that fell into the post FFVII crunch where Square tried to shit out as many games as fast as possible while at the same time having projects stall.
FFVIII, Crono Cross, Xenogears, all show signs of being either rushed out the door.
VIII has literally like at least 4 or 5 dungeons worth of bosses in the final dungeon. Literally like 14 or something.
Xenogear's entire second disk is just a series of cutscenes spliced together.
Cross was clearly another project that got the Chrono stuff shoved into it half way into development.
All three of these games deserve a remaster to finish the games. Too bad most of the original creators no longer work at SE.
Dominic Lopez
>Strangely enough PC version is the definitive one. Or was until very recently where they essentially released it on consoles as a Remastered edition or something.
the remaster is total trash and the "balance changes" they made fucked the game up and removed a bunch of classes from being obtainable in a realistic playthrough. You now have to minmax and look up guides just to get some classes, it's retarded.
Also they reverted the battle chain changes the original PC version made, which means you can now overgrind your battle rank before hitting the first boss and permanently fuck yourself out of progressing. Just a total mismanaged shitfest, I don't get why they did it. Thank god I have the original in my steam library still.
Lucas Russell
I don't mind RNG shit but there's at which it just becomes unfair and punishes the player for trying to play. Sadly even if it's fixed on PC or a remaster on X1 or whatever, I won't be buying it again. I liked it and tried to play it a few times but it sucked the will right out of me when I learned nothing I did or didn't do mattered.
>Literally the same reposted shitposts not even a day after another thread Jesus fucking christ
Lincoln Barnes
All I had to read was the paragraph about combat to know this guy is a fucking idiot.
Cooper Howard
I absolutely love the story in Breath of Fire III. The tale of a child with no idea what's going on getting adopted into a surrogate family then losing that family in a horrible battle. The search to find that family while also discovering what you actually are only to be attacked by someone who you thought you could trust and go missing for years. Then that same person finding you to and having you help them find out why your people had to die and why certain people have the power that they do in a search for God.
It's a great take on the whole evil God must kill by chosen one story line as you aren't searching for God to kill them rather to just ask them why and for them to explain things. It isn't even till near the end of the game when you find the remainder of your race that you find out the truth of what happened to your race and the true identity of the "God".
I know people praise BoF4 to no end but it's story is a real step back from what BoF3 did.
I can't say I didn't enjoy CC's story though. It gets across the emotional brunt of its story very well, which is Serge/you being lost in an alternate timeline. The revelations later in the story are still mindblowing even if the whole context of them is unclear. My gripe is the shallowness of the playable characters. CC actually covers the stories of a lot of characters to a good degree, but there's lots of extraneous ones despite that.
Easton Flores
Is this post supposed to be a joke OP? Suikoden 2's story is engaging up until Luca goes down and it utterly fails as a tale between two friends being forced to fight each other because Jowy's motivations are unclear at best and downright nonsensical at worst. He's also hard to take seriously as a threat because he never does anything of note once he has power, he just keeps losing ground while the game tries to pretend he's got some kind of grander scheme going on.
The "what is a soul" question in Chrono Cross is such a tiny part of the game that I have no idea how that's what your main take away from the game is. It gets brought up when the switch first happens by Harle but then it's quickly dropped and never brought up again. The game never tries to make you question who Serge or Lynx really is and most characters are convinced within five seconds of who you are if they're actually relevant to the plot.
Similarly the game never really explores the consequences of our actions either outside of like one or 2 scenes that have little to no relevance to the overall plot. The Hydra Marsh and the fairies subplot are probably the only time the game really brings it up and even then the game trying to use your actions as a justification for the dwarves' actions is incredibly hamfisted since it implies that you are some how responsible for the actions of others.
This has to be one of the most pretentious interpretations of JRPG stories I've seen in a while.
Ian Cox
I was too young to appreciate the story this game had when I played it. Wish I could give it another go-round in my old age. Also I need to fap to the princess' pantsu a few more times.
Elijah Gonzalez
I really love the idea of Chrono Cross' story, in practice you can tell they couldn't do all they planned to do with it and it's a crying shame, but it had all the right ingredients to be fucking amazing
David Morales
>Jowy's motivations are unclear at best and downright nonsensical at worst. He's also hard to take seriously as a threat because he never does anything of note once he has power, he just keeps losing ground while the game tries to pretend he's got some kind of grander scheme going on.
It also doesn't help that the other friend is a silent protagonist with zero personality, hopes or dreams.
you know what? Yea Forums is sometimes ok. finally a thread i enjoy in a long time
Mason Miller
>liking Chrono cross after what it did the trigger Fuck off cross bab
Ryan Foster
It's funny how Final Fantasy 7 had a budget of literally 140 million dollars, yet its character models are nowhere near as well-animated or expressive as the ones in this gif.
Jackson Wilson
Is Radical Dreamers worth playing if I'm a huge Crossfag?
Adam Sanchez
I swear, you Trigger niggers are the worst and can't let a single Chrono Cross thread go by without whining that this game isn't Chrono Trigger 2.
Wyatt Brown
Don't remember the story too well but I loved the alternate reality concept, and think it's much more fun than overdone time travel plots.
Ethan Anderson
>one of only three characters who could steal from enemies deal with it faggot
>Chrono Cross battle >complicated >GRINDING in Chrono Cross okay that guy is just mad, didn't play the game and just read a few wiki articles
Thomas Barnes
wtf i love game journalists now
Justin Robinson
His opinions about the combat system is retarded, but he's completely spot on about the story.
Robert Russell
Suikoden II’s story is brought down severely in quality because Jowy is such a retarded character. I was pretty disappointed when I finally played it after all the hype. It’s still a good game though.
Brody Turner
Chances are if half the article is uninformed, so is the other half, son your cognitive bias is showing
Dylan Gutierrez
You killed any hope of the series being good. Don't fucking act high and mighty. You ruined a good series especially after you cross niggers tainted the DS version of CT
Kevin Nguyen
>lets have 44 party members >only two are important to the story >one of those two spends more than half the game in the main villain's body >the other one is absent for most of the game
Are you seriously going to defend this? There is hardly anything controversial about criticisms like these.
Aaron Richardson
God I miss the art direction of PSX games. Modern JRPGs have better graphics, sure, but most of them end up looking like any generic fantasy anime setting. There’s no uniqueness to the environments anymore.
Luke Cox
We really were radical dreamers
Gavin Evans
that's not the angle the article is taking tho the entire article is just character assassination aimed specifically at Kato, making unsubstantiated accusations of him somehow "taking over" and hijacking the plot of Trigger. Where's his source on that exactly ? Nowhere to be seen, afaik.
Robert Price
The three Xenoblades have really unique and beautiful environments, but that's probably because the creator of the game did graphics and environment designs for plenty of iconic 90s JRPGs.
Jacob Bell
>I prefer all my exposition jam packed into the final hour of the game. Think your brainlet filter is backwards there friend
Luis Bennett
that's not fair, there's a lot of exposition in chronopolis too
Charles Baker
True but you spent 98% of the game not knowing what the fuck is going on and then the game realizes, oh shit we have to try and explain this convoluted as fuck plot now and then just dumps all that shit on you.
I liked the game, but it's got terrible pacing for the story. Chrono Trigger is given more credit because it did the pacing right.
Brandon Thompson
I don't think anybody would argue against that, that's frequently agreed upon by people that like the game, the disagreement comes on whether or not the poor structure is making the story look better or worse than it really is, and I'm in the "worse" group.
Grayson Sanchez
And then in the true ending I’m just supposed to believe that they run off into the sunset together as best bros just like old times, even though they were literally trying to murder one another just earlier.
Nicholas Hughes
>tfw Chrono Cross is living rent-free in Trigger niggers' heads
Chronopolis may not literally be the final hour of the game but it's certainly pretty close. Chronopolis itself is basically one huge plot dump which feels like it's going to be the end since you finally take down the main villain of the game. All that's left after it is Terra Tower and the final boss(es).
Parker Davis
>that's not the angle the article is taking tho
I literally quoted a part of the article. Do you have trouble reading?
>the entire article is just character assassination aimed specifically at Kato, making unsubstantiated accusations of him somehow "taking over" and hijacking the plot of Trigger. Most of the article is spent criticizing the story, with a few lines here and there dedicated to attacking Kato. Why are you misrepresenting the bulk of the article?
Justin White
There's one paragraph about the characters and like 4 about the author's kato conspiracy theory$ You sound very bad at reading things.
Ayden Williams
>You sound very bad at reading things.
The article has 12 paragraphs. Kato is only meentioned in 4 paragraphs, and most of the time it's only in passing.
You are genuinely retarded.
Again, why are you completely sweeping aside all the completely valid criticisms of the story the article makes?
Cameron Adams
>No idea how accurate that is but it feels about right. You're right but I disagree when you say it's amazing as it ultimately never has any impact on the plot and feels more like just an interesting bit of world-building. Like you never get any information from the save points like the role they're supposed to serve in-universe and if using the save points actually sends info to Chronopolis then you'd think that FATE would take a more active role to stop you from getting the relics from the dragons or any of the other things you do during the plot.
Cooper Perez
Is it really "rent-free" when it's a direct sequel that ruins everything Trigger did?
Joseph Long
>the plot is not hard to understand >immediately gets the plot wrong in the first few sentences
Because there's no "valid criticism", just name calling. The article never explains why things are bad. It just says they are, over and over. This is not how you criticize something, especially not if you simultaneously prove you haven't played the game in the one paragraph you decide to dedicate to gameplay. Chrono Cross' story has issues. None of them are satisfactorily brought up in this article. The article is bad, and you're retarded for saying he's right about anything since all he's saying outside of the characters paragraph (the ONE paragraph you're defending out of 12) is "it's bad and I didn't like it".
William Gomez
see How can you take an article seriously when it begins saying "lmao cringe plot" then proceeds to show in the first paragraph that they in fact did not understand the plot at all?
Justin Rogers
The criticism of the story is given from the foundational argument that "it is Kato's fault." The main argument is that "Kato can't handle writing a story" and all the criticisms of the story extend from that central premise. Kato doesn't have to be directly mentioned in every paragraph when the article itself explicitly states that it is a critique of Kato.
Luis Sullivan
Agreed. Chrono Cross is up there too though.
Michael Richardson
The only thing Cross has ovr Trigger is music. I love Cross music, whereas I thought Triggr's music was merely fine and never understood all the ridiculous praise for it.
Xavier Morales
I don't see why having that many potential party members is a problem (most of which you will probably never recruit on your first playthrough since getting them requires a guide and going through the story in a very specific manner). The game is designed around focusing on a small group of party members. Is that a bad thing, and if so, how?
William Kelly
But the best part of the game (Dead Sea) happens after you get turned into a furry.
Adam Davis
Not him but it's a pretty big problem that every character in your party just disappears from the story entirely after they join you. This colorful cast would have better served the story by being unrecruitable and still participating in story events. The problem is not the number so much as it is the fact that they stop participating entirely after their recruitment, the only exceptions being the mandatory party members.
Lincoln Wood
>I don't see why having that many potential party members is a problem Well, ask yourself, what do that many party members add to the game?
Chrono Cross is a story-driven RPG.
Do those party members add anything to the story? Nope, most of them literally almost never speak again after they join you.
Do they add anything to gamplay? Nope, since Chrono Cross RPG systems are so simplistic that those party members end up being mostly interchangeable statblocks.
So what benefit is there to having that many party members? Its just a waste of resources, resources that could have been spent making Chrono Cross a better game.
Jonathan Mitchell
Is it actually? Because I've hear people like OP bring up Suikoden 2 and Chrono Cross as masterpieces of the genre and they did not live up to the hype at all. I've only played a couple hours of Xenogears and I'm weary of continuing with it after getting burned so many times.
Lucas Martinez
Is it a bad thing that their personal involvement in the story ends, though? A lot of these characters have complete arcs of their own that Serge helps them through. It'd be strange if they were heavily involved in the story after being recruited, since most are only willing to join once Serge has taken care of their problems and freed them up to hang out with him.
Anthony Perez
It sucks the life out of the world, that's the main problem. There's precious little non-recruitable characters that even have names, so when you're done recruiting everyone the world is almost entirely inhabited by generics. Chrono Cross already has a pretty small and empty world, it's a real bummer when by the end of the game there's no one left to interact with.
Asher Brown
Keep in mind most people played those games when they were 12.
Camden Collins
It's only an "issue" if you make it to be. Certain characters' alternate timeline selves still play a role in the storyline even if not recruitable; Others are intended to just be recruitable characters for you to use to customize your party in the looks you like, and needn't be anything else. I agree entirely with the notion that you could make at least a handful of them more involved, but even Serge and Kid are essentially optional characters. (With Kid being -literally- optional, and Harle being temporary.) The game is focused mainly for you to take about the big picture, and there is little way in which you can give a cast variety and involvement when the big picture is time traveling supercomputers, robodragons and genetically engineered magical princesses. Even if you say something along the lines of "Trigger did it tho", well, did it really? Honestly only Lucca and Crono do the actual plot. Marle is just a plot device, Robo is a plot device that gets used once and mostly for the sequel at that, Frog is immediately irrelevant in lieu of Janus, Janus and Ayla are optional, and the latter is literally irrelevant in all levels. It's just how it is. That the characters have as much storyline as they have when they are all optional, and customized dialogues for when they can interject in any spot of the storyline when party members are meant to "say something", I find commendable.
Hudson Williams
For some reason that dead sea always hid me hard as a kid and made me question existence. What a good game.
William Cooper
MOTHER 3 or Lisa
Hudson Carter
That's ridiculous. That's like saying there is no point to Suikoden's 200-something roster because barring a handful, they are just units to the grand scheme of things. They add design variety to the party, they are there to customize your team in fun/whacky ways or just for you to use those you like and feel more attached to. Your "resources" meme is as baseless as it can get. What even makes you think they would have done more than they did, considering the game was already amazing for PSX standards of the time?
Noah Lopez
MFW when we'll never get a game as atmospheric and lovely as Chrono Cross. It's been a depressing 20 years since its release bros...
>Well, ask yourself, what do that many party members add to the game? For one thing, the act of acquiring them is itself an achievement. It usually requires completing side quests or doing events in a particular sequences, making the right decisions, etc. to get them available for recruitment. Most people playing through blind would get probably only half of all recruitable characters in total. The game actively shows you characters that can be recruited into the party with things like the flash forward sequence, essentially challenging the player to actually go and figure out how to get them in the party. >Do those party members add anything to the story? Nope, most of them literally almost never speak again after they join you. Most of them have already completed their involvement in the story by the time they can be recruited. >Do they add anything to gamplay? Nope, since Chrono Cross RPG systems are so simplistic that those party members end up being mostly interchangeable statblocks. This is a gross oversimplification. There's enough variety in what party members can and cannot do, what weapons they use, what their element is, what combination abilities can be done with other party members, that no one character is just a generic statblock with nothing else going for them in gameplay. Some are obviously better than others, but that's to be expected in any RPG. > Its just a waste of resources, resources that could have been spent making Chrono Cross a better game. That's a bold claim. I hope you have some strong evidence to back it up.
Samuel Ramirez
We're never gonna get a JRPG like this again are we? Fuck I miss Squaresoft at its peak...it was like every year or two you would have pure kino to look forward to. There are not many good JRPGs these days esp. not with soul
>Honestly only Lucca and Crono do the actual plot. Marle is just a plot device, Robo is a plot device that gets used once and mostly for the sequel at that, Frog is immediately irrelevant in lieu of Janus Each of these characters still have personal involvements in either later story events, like Marle's pendant becoming relevant, or in side stories, like Robo dropping the party to take care of a forest. They're relatively small, but they still make you feel like the characters are there and aren't just interchangeable mouthpieces. >That the characters have as much storyline as they have when they are all optional The point I'm making is that them being recruitable doesn't really add much to the game besides unique characters like Poshul, and the game has to account for them being gone by the time they become recruitable so they can't have story participation anymore. The game could have fixed this with party-member specific sidequests like the Masamune one that did wonders to close out the Viper Manor's crew arc, but it only did so for them and no one else. I personally would have liked more stuff from the Marbule crew, and I never really got anything past the early game.
Gabriel Nguyen
what the fuck are you talking about there is no way CC is 20 years old... oh fuck
Yep, Yasuyuki Honne was lead environment art director for >Xenogears >Chrono Cross >Baten Kaitos and Origins >Xenoblade 1 All of which have absolutely 10/10 art direction, and he's one of the inhouse artists at Monolith soft. Hopefully he gets a major role again sometime soon.
>the best part of the game (Dead Sea) Based taste user, what a god tier dungeon. What other games seem mostly fantasy and then suddenly veer towards straight sci-fi in the late game? Nothing makes me harder, and Chrono Cross does it really well. Getting to the Dead Sea and later Chronopolis for the first time feels really mysterious and different from the rest of the game. Xenoblade 2 comes close when you first go inside the World Tree but thats about all I can think of off the top of my head.
>That's ridiculous. That's like saying there is no point to Suikoden's 200-something roster because barring a handful, they are just units to the grand scheme of things. This argument is SO fucking disingenuous. Suikoden II has the plot premise of raising and maintaining a band of mercenaries, so the inclusion of those characters is justifiable because they serve both a functional and a thematic purpose in the story. Cross has no such premise. It's cast is largely a rag-tag team of nobodies in the main plot, many of whom join Serge for extremely frivolous reasons.
Nolan Bennett
Not unless Nomura finally fucking dies
Camden Bailey
Characters in Suikoden are way more unique then in Chrono Cross. Some provide functions outside of battle, they have different skills, use different weapons with different ranges, some take up multiple slots, have different team attacks so combination is important and most importantly the game is actually built for such a large cast. In Suikoden if you can choose max up to five characters to use in battle rather than just two in Chrono Cross and most importantly the game's experience system makes it extremely easy to get characters up to speed and encourages you to try new party members out unlike Chrono Cross which actively discourages experimentation with its experience system.
Ayden Wilson
And both of your points are wrong, so I am not sure what you mean? Everyone in Chrono Cross has at least one small side-quest after their recruitment, and have different skills. Someone as early on as Pierre has a side-quest that spans all the way to Chronopolis, where you find pieces of armor that only he can wear, making a set that homages Frog's. The Knights all have a mutual side-quest where not only do you find out about Glenn's brother, but also find about their past, and get their last skills one by one. Skelly is scattered in pieces all over the game. Pip evolves depending on special combinations of elements you use, and his changes to shape and element are permanent. Doc can heal a specific character if he is in your party at the time, and only he can do that specific action in the storyline, presuming you unlocked his last skill beforehand. They add quite a lot to the flair and gameplay of the game both, they also unlock extra dialogues with other characters, and some like Janice and Ridle even unlock complete extra sections of the game.
Jaxon Rogers
suikoden 2 also has 6 characters parties so you actually get to use them
Julian Walker
What are you talking about? Chrono Cross actively advertised the fact that you can get a huge party from day one as one of its major selling points. It even shows off characters that you can recruit in the flash forward sequence at the start of the game, challenging the player to actually figure out how to get them in the party. The game makes it very clear both in game and out of it that you can and should try to recruit as many characters as possible. It not only gives you more options in combat, but allows for party compositions you otherwise wouldn't be able to use if you were playing through with only a party of six or seven characters, which is perfectly doable but far from optimal.
Benjamin Howard
Now imagine...
Nomura makes the next fucking Chrono game.
FUCK it might just happen if Square gets the balls to touch the series again
I don't want that has-been hack to come anywhere near the Chrono series.
Aaron Morris
Live a Live Explorers of Sky Shadow Hearts Covenant
Isaiah Rogers
F.E.A.R 1 and 2 had amazing and underrated writing. The story of a believably evil defense corp. making clones with telepathic commanders, horrible shit happens in the process that you uncover as you progress. makes for an awesome horror sci-fi plot
So many little details when you enter Armachan HQ in the first game - like the pictures of F-22 Raptors that suggest they worked with other US defense contractors such as Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
The school in the 2nd game where you find our children were experimented on in secret and human experimentation labs underneath the school
Seriously, not enough kudos is given to F.E.A.R; besides the story you have amazing gun play and level design.
No, user, you are retarded. Most of the party in Chrono Cross are entirely aware of the issues they are facing and join you exactly because of that. The rest are simply side-characters that join the party because they fucking do, like 90% of the characters in any JRPG ever, because that's the entire point behind them; just having party members that you enjoy. Why the fuck would they need to remind you every twenty minutes that they are willing to fight to prevent the world from getting meme'd into a time vortex of doom? How is that different from Suikoden's "woah ha ha you gave me this rune, I will now kill people in your name"? Are you so dense you can't fathom why that would be unnecessary?
Lincoln Allen
>the only way any of the SE franchises gets a sequel if one of the three stooges gets their grimy mitts on it
no thank you
Ethan Flores
Why would you WANT Squeenix to ruin the memory of Chrono with a sequel?
Adam Gomez
>Nomura makes the next fucking Chrono game. Fuck no. One of the only good things Cross had going for it is the fantastic character design. I don't want any more games that act as advertisements for Nomura's latest fashion fetish.
Chrono Cross is a fucking mess, whatever good it has is ruined by shitty design choices.
Michael Richardson
Nice, someone mentioning Terranigma! Leaving aside whether it's deeply philosophical or not, I love it melancholic tone and atmosphere (especially in the earlier parts) and its tearjerker ending.
>believably evil >after we find out everything they did to Alma nah
Brandon Allen
Nah, Gears is a cool concept, but it's a woefully overwritten mess in certain aspects. It's a prime example of how scope creep can ruin the execution good ideas.
>Why the fuck would they need to remind you every twenty minutes that they are willing to fight to prevent the world from getting meme'd into a time vortex of doom? Because in story-driven games, I expect the cast members to be regularly engaged in the story to justify their presence in the main cast. Adding a bunch of novelty that you can recruit for shits and giggles in a game that doesn't even have some sort of army or squad management premise in its story is unnecessary and superfluous. They amount to nothing unimportant fluff content.
>Are you so dense you can't fathom why that would be unnecessary? No, I think you're too dense to understand the importance of good character development in a story-driven game.
Nicholas Peterson
>That's ridiculous. That's like saying there is no point to Suikoden's 200-something roster because barring a handful, they are just units to the grand scheme of things. That's correct. Suikoden is even guiltier of it. Any RPG where you can ignore 95% of the characters without missing any meaningful content has serious issues in my book. Most of the Suikoden characters literally have only a handful of generic lines of dialogue after they join you.
I'm going to use the Jagged Alliance series as an example of how to keep a large roster of characters relevant. Jagged Alliance 2 specifically, which has at least 70 recruitable mercenaries
For starters, mercs in Jagged Alliance 2 require you to pay them money, for every day they are in your employ. Weaker mercs require less money, while stronger mercs require more. This means even weaker mercs remain relevant, because they cost you less while at the same time they are weaker and therefore have more potential to be trained, whereas stronger mercs have less room for growth.
Secondly, mercs don't always get along with each other. This might mean they refuse to join you depending on what mercs you have already recruited. It could also mean that while they will work together, their morale might drop, reducing their effectiveness in any task they do.
Also, mercs have distinct strengths and weaknesses. This can be anything from being a sharpshooter to being stealthy to being an effective teacher for training militia. This can completely alter the way you play the game. In games like Suikoden and Chrono Cross, this diversity of playstyle isn't really possible because their menu-based systems are too limited, e.g. it doesn't really make much difference whether you use a physical attack to deal 150 damage or whether you use a fire spell to deal 200 damage.
Lastly, mercs have distinct personalities. They are all fully voice acted and have lots of unique responses for different situations, which are quite amusing.
So you -are- dense, then. The storyline is perfectly clear about the fact the focus is the grand picture and hardly has anything to do whatsoever with any character in a personal level. -Nobody- receives "personal growth" beyond their necessary doses. That you for some reason expect every single plot to follow the same pattern or to throw your arbitrary excuses for you to swallow so you don't have to think about why every character doesn't get an ark of their own is sincerely just your fault. For all the blatant issues CC has which are perfectly justifiable, yours isn't.
Owen Green
But JA2 is literally another example of individual party members not having a direct influence on the story itself. Like, everything you just stated is nothing but gameplay, of which there is pretty significant difference for CC parties. The party members in CC all have their own personalities and things to say during story events too. There is meaningful content in CC for every character even after they are recruited, side quests and dialogues and everything. The characters in JA2 aren't any more relevant to anything in the game than the characters in CC.
Carter Hill
>So you -are- dense, then. The storyline is perfectly clear about the fact the focus is the grand picture and hardly has anything to do whatsoever with any character in a personal level. If the creators wanted to tell a story like that, why would they pick a fucking RPG in which to do so? You know, a genre that's mostly built around characters and scenarios, not grandiose, Silmarilion-esque epics.
Jaxson Wilson
>But JA2 is literally another example of individual party members not having a direct influence on the story itself. Because it's a non-linear open-world RPG where you can literally beeline to the final boss within 5 minutes of starting the game. Party members can't be necessary because the game is non-linear by design. It's an intentional design choice, and it fits the game perfectly.
Suikoden and Chrono Cross by contrast are completely linear, story-driven RPGs. They gain nothing by having so many useless party members. So why are you praising it as a positive?
>of which there is pretty significant difference for CC parties. Not anywhere to the same extent as Jagged Alliance 2. Again. this isn't really possible because of how simplistic Chrono Cross' RPG systems are.
For instance, in Chrono Cross, you can't have characters with high leadership skill who are good at persuading NPCs or can stave off the effects of bad morale.
In Chrono Cross you can't have stealthy characters who can sneak by the enemy undetected.
In Chrono Cross you can't have lockpickers or explosives experts.
Do I need to go on? The possible scope of different playstyles is simply much smaller.
Leo Gonzalez
How did CC manage to have the most comfy environments in games?
>Like, everything you just stated is nothing but gameplay, of which there is pretty significant difference for CC parties Divinity: Original Sin has a billion times more variety in different parties, yet it only has 4 party members.
Your argument makes no sense.
Leo Sanchez
>a genre that's mostly built around characters and scenarios Yes, and every party member you can recruit have character-based stories and personalities, while also providing new options in battles. You seem to have some kind of retarded conviction that every party member in an RPG *has* to have constant importance to the overarching storyline. That's not how RPGs work, not any of them. Character arcs are dealt with, then the story moves on. Examples: Barrett, Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, and Red XIII from FF7; literally everyone except Zidane in FF9; in Chrono Trigger most of the party is similarly unimportant beyond their individual story beats; and etc. etc. I could go on for quite some time. There is absolutely no requirement for any party member to be constantly in the focus of the story except for, obviously, the main characters. Once a character's personal arc is finished, they fade into the background because the major story isn't about them. For someone criticizing CC for being story-driven, your entire argument boils down to basically impossible and unrealistic expectations without any real basis in RPGs as a genre.
Brody Gutierrez
The Baten Kaitos games had the same environment artist. It isn't as consitently amazing as Chrono Cross, but most of the areas look fantastic nonetheless.
Please cite your examples of JRPG games, specially from the 1980-2000's in which all characters are not only permanently relevant to the main scheme of things, but constantly receive personal growth and characterization without becoming irrelevant.
Michael Ross
>Please cite your examples of JRPG games, specially from the 1980-2000's in which all characters are not only permanently relevant to the main scheme of things, but constantly receive personal growth and characterization without becoming irrelevant. Strawman much? Just because past jrpgs didn't necessarily accomplish making all characters continually relevant to the story, doesn't justify adding a billion useless characters. That only makes the issue worse.
This is a completely nonsensical line of reasoning.
>Suikoden and Chrono Cross by contrast are completely linear, story-driven RPGs. Both are designed around the concept of recruiting a large party without making it mandatory in order to complete the game. It's an intentional design choice, and it fits these games perfectly. >They gain nothing by having so many useless party members. So why are you praising it as a positive? And this is where you go full retard. Half a dozen posters have already pointed out how wrong you are about this. The party members in CC add plenty to the game, both in gameplay and in meaningful content - their own stories, not even counting the influence they have on the main story before they are recruited. They don't have to be important to the main story once they're in the party. Some of them aren't important to the main story at all, but being a side character isn't an inherently bad thing. >Not anywhere to the same extent as Jagged Alliance 2. Why are you comparing the gameplay of an entirely different genre to the gameplay of RPGs now when your original argument was that CC party members add nothing to the game's story, which has already been proven wrong? What possible argument could your tiny little pea brain be trying to make here? In Chrono Cross, being able to set up specific party compositions based on weapons, elements, and abilities unique to each party member is fully realized within the party system. There are even unique combination abilities that only specific party compositions can do. >Divinity: Original Sin has a billion times more variety in different parties, yet it only has 4 party members. Why are you again comparing an entirely different game? Chrono Cross makes perfectly good use of its large number of party members in gameplay, as stated above. But your original argument was that having so many party members was bad because they don't contribute to the story at all, which is patently false. Like, completely wrong. Given up on that?
Nicholas Thompson
>Strawman much? No. A strawman is misrepresenting an argument. Your argument from the very start was that not every party member in CC is relevant to the main story forever. Show us one (1) JRPG where every party member is important to the main story for the whole duration of the game. You demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of the genre, and your assertion that the 44 party members are pointless when the game is actively designed around having a massive pool of characters to customize your party with and gives them all arcs, side quests, additional content unique to them, even besides their sometimes brief importance to the plot, is completely and utterly fucking wrong. You never played the game, that much is obvious. >Just because past jrpgs didn't necessarily accomplish making all characters continually relevant to the story, doesn't justify adding a billion useless characters You are claiming that it is a problem to have many recruitable characters, some with minimal importance to the main story. How? You haven't specified how or why it is a problem. You just keep saying it is one, repeating it over and over, without explaining why. >This is a completely nonsensical line of reasoning. You have yet to show any rational basis for your arguments. As it is, you are just saying something is bad without explaining how or why. When you tried to explain why, you exposed yourself as not knowing the fucking game at all. Maybe you should give it up instead of trying to bring up other games that aren't RPGs and making this all about gameplay instead. That's called moving the goalposts.
Tyler Sanders
>Character arcs are dealt with, then the story moves on. Examples: Barrett, Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, and Red XIII from FF7; literally everyone except Zidane in FF9 Bullshit. All these guys continue to be relevant in their respective plots because constantly interact with the rest of the cast and work as a team throughout their respective games. In CC, you have a bunch of characters who either have little more than a short set piece dedicated to them or just join you willy nilly, then basically shut up for the rest of the game. Look, I'm not looking for a complicated story arc for every single character. I just want either a premise that justifies the existence of a large cast, or enough longevity of participation in the main plot to make every character's presence feel more than token. Hence, I prefer smaller, more close-knit casts than larger ones full of fluff characters that you can recruit for shits and giggles.
Brandon Ward
>Why are you again comparing an entirely different game?
What 'entirely' different game? Both Divinity: original sin and jagged alliance 2 are party-based, turn-based rpgs, just like Suikoden and Chrono Cross.
Your argument was that having so many party members was justified to support different parties with different playstyles. This argument is complete nonsense because rpgs with vastly more variety in different play styles have LESS party members than Suikoden or Chrono Cross. The RPG systems in those games are way too anemic to have that many party members AND make them mechanically distinct. So unsurprisingly, the vast majority of party members in those games end up useless and interchangeable.
Chrono Cross has six elemental types of magic. That's it, 6 party members was all that was needed to showcase all the gameplay variety it has to offer.
Similarly, in Suikoden all that was needed was six or so characters, with different weapon ranges (long, short or medium) and the ability to freely equip runes, and again, that's all that's needed to showcase all its variety.
Blake Gomez
>people still haven't learned not to reply to WRPG-Kun
>all these nerds going "NUH UH DIS IS WRONG" >all these nerds not remembering that CC was considered a shitty game by the entirety of the people who played CT Based reviewer
William Wright
dude as much as I want a next chrono game to happen I really and I mean REALLY don't want Square enix to touch it. Lets be realistic here: at best it would end up like FFXV. Not bad, but it would never meet the expectation and it would end up as a mediocre clusterfuck which would be better off never even existing in the first place.
Josiah Adams
> All these guys continue to be relevant in their respective plots because constantly interact with the rest of the cast and work as a team throughout their respective games. Not in the least. You can drop them from your party and never hear from them again for the rest of the game aside from cutscenes. Barret's story is in Corel. Red's story is in Cosmo Canyon. Vincent's story is two scenes with Lucretia. Yuffie gets a whole detour arc to Wutai. And after that, their importance becomes completely minimal. Their presence in the story drops to nearly a complete zero. It's all Cloud and Tifa after that. FF9 follows the same structure, but it really is all about Zidane in the end. Even Garnet stops being important to the plot once the party reaches Terra.
Ryan Hall
> Both Divinity: original sin and jagged alliance 2 are party-based, turn-based rpgs, just like Suikoden and Chrono Cross. They are completely separate games. You asserted that Chrono Cross does not handle its own characters correctly, and now that you have been called out on your bullshit you started trying to compare other games, other games wherein your party members are utterly fucking irrelevant to the story content on a level that far, far surpasses Chrono Cross. Like, what the fuck are you trying to accomplish now? > I just want either a premise that justifies the existence of a large cast, or enough longevity of participation in the main plot to make every character's presence feel more than token. One of CC's central premises was to have a large party. Are you even reading what you're writing anymore? It never set out to make them all critically important to the main story. And since when was that a requirement? >Your argument was that having so many party members was justified to support different parties with different playstyles. You have yet to disprove it. All you have managed to do is bring up other games with very different gameplay. >Chrono Cross has six elemental types of magic. That's it, 6 party members was all that was needed to showcase all the gameplay variety it has to offer. This is how I know you have pretty much zero grasp of the game mechanics. Congratulations, you have exposed yourself as a retard who never even touched the game. Fuck off.
Matthew Rivera
Having a handful of party members diminish in story relevance is still preferable to having 40+ party members that either diminish in story relevance, or in Chrono Cross case, have no story relevance in the first place.
Nicholas Green
>Having a handful of party members diminish in story relevance is still preferable to having 40+ party members that either diminish in story relevance, or in Chrono Cross case, have no story relevance in the first place. Plenty of CC characters have story relevance even before you can recruit them. Many are actually unrecruitable until much later in the story when their part in it comes to an end. Even after being recruited, they all have at least one sidequest which may or may not be directly related to the story. You may prefer smaller parties with more direct involvement, but that's not objective. It's an opinion. You're free to have one, but don't treat it like gospel.
