Hmmm

Most of them aren't just Mario with a different color and ears.

The sonic fanbase is facing fierce competition recently, but rest assured they will contend to maintain their most autistic fanbase award

Get over it as in forget about it and never mention it again? Or get over it as in pretend it wasn't that bad? Because it sure fucking was.

I have literally never met a Sonic fan that wasn't emotionally stunted/has legit autism. This isn't a meme or even a large sect of people, if you enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog games you are autistic, plain and simple

They all have more personality than the bulk of the Mario cast.

Holy shit is it that one autist from deviantart that has a giant gallery full of these images?

The sad part is that this is most likely unironic

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Oh I'm not denying it was bad, I was mainly referring to those who still continue to cite it as the reason that the franchise is irredeemable

having a large cast isn't sonics problem
consecutive poorly made games is the problem

Wario, Luigi, Waluigi

Plenty of kids still like him and know who he is, for some reason. It seems they've done a good job of keeping him in the public consciousness, if nothing else.

Try not looking on the internet.

>Most of them

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Idiot, people make fun of Sonic because the games are never consistently good

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You have a personality and still be shit

Neither are Sonic characters.

So? MOST of Sonic's friends are more different than that.

You've got Shadow, Silver and at a stretch Knuckles. Anyone else is far too different to count.

>the (color) with (basic animal)
Learn English, Pablo.

>shit playstyles
>shit plots
>sega does the inverse and makes everyone but sonic and eggman absent or irrelevant
No, it's just because Sonic Team's a bunch of hacks

I have a hard time believing my enjoyment of Sonic CD makes me an autist any more than any other video game.

>Metal Mario and Dr. Mario are canonically separate characters

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Sonic has shit voice acting and keeps replacing voice actors all the time

>MOST of Sonic's friends are more different than that.
Incorrect.

After SA2 the characters started to get worse and lost their personality.So a large cast of bloated nothing characters become alot more noticeable.

sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Pre-Super_Genesis_Wave_characters
I think that people may refer to the comic series when it comes to the loads of characters. You had a lot of "[instert name] the [insert species]" that looked like furry OCs. It's not that bad though if you're a lorefag and want a complex cast for a complex story.

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This is why the Japanese dub is better in every way

>Megaman
The franchise is divided in different generational parts a la JJBA, so characters never become a crowd
>Street Fighter
It's a fucking fighting game, it NEEDS a bunch of characters
>Mario
Most of these are reserved for spinoffs. Mainline is always just Mario, peach, Bowser and Luigi

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Sonic's friends play like shit as well as being obnoxious

Do you think Wario and Luigi are exactly the same as Mario but a different colour?

To be fair we've had mostly the same cast since 2010, with the only one outlasting that being Eggman's voice actor who's been doing it since 2003 (or 2005 if you just want to count games)

Vector, Big, Charmy, Tails, Rouge, Cream, Babylon Rogues and Emerl.

I always figured people were talking about the "show up once, never appear again" type of characters in the games

>Vector
>Gamma
>Rouge
>Chaos
>Big
>Eggman
>Charmy
>Chip
>Amy
>Storm
>Wave

It's a fucking stretch to say Tails or Jet look or act anything like Sonic, but even if I give you them they're still not most.

It's kinda hard to make a new Sonic character that doesn't fall into the trap of either looking like a regular furry like the Archie gang, or just another monoeyed re-shelling of Sonic like most of the ones in the pic, while still having them "feel" like a Sonic character. Big somehow makes this work, by still having dynamic good colors and exaggerated proportions without the monoeye, but he's a meme so I guess they couldn't try that again.

youtube.com/watch?v=yBgnPMYHMTc

Sonic is shit.

And Sonic's extended cast barely ever shows up for more than just to talk, and barely at that. Most games will have at most Tails and Amy, Knuckles if you're lucky.

They are about as different as Sonic is to any character that gets accused of being the same.

>Gamma
>Chaos
>Eggman
>Sonic's friends
The rest are pretty valid though

>And Sonic's extended cast barely ever shows up for more than just to talk
That's the result of the bitching over the years.

The Archie characters looked fine. Any accusation they looked 'out of place' was just from game fans who hated they existed at all.

The thing with Sonic characters is that most of these were introduced in the span of a decade, and they tried to give a backstory to each

A lot of people have have said pretty much every reason, but here are the big ones
>Sonic's friends are constantly put in roles where they're more annoying than helpful. Outside of cases like Alia or Toad, the others do not have that problem
>On a related note, there was a period of time where Sega was shoehorning every character into a game regardless of the gameplay and plot
>Further worsening matters is that characters personalities decay and they get written more simply
>But most importantly: Characters in Mega Man or Mario play very similarly for the most part, with their unique abilities being what sets them apart from the MC. The 3D Sonic games change gameplay drastically depending on the character, though the 2D Sonic games are smart enough to follow Mario and Mega Mans examples.

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The problem is the Sonic's fuck huge cast has never appeared in an actually good game.

Hopefully the new game changes that

It can be done wrong sure, but you're mostly complaining that Sonic characters fall into the trapping of looking like Sonic characters.

If you look at the Fleetway comics, they had so little to work with when Sonic was at its infancy, pre-dating Sonic 3, that they had to make full size characters out of the smaller animals.

Porker Lewis looks more like a 90s era Looney Tunes character, but uses the Mega Drive Sonic games as a source.

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The ONLY characters with a Backstory is Shadow, Silver, Emerl and Blaze. The Chaotix are old and have no explanation, Cream too has no backstory just a mother who only shows up in handheld games.Big has literally no backstory or any character beyond wanting to fish and his pet frog. Sonic characters rarely if ever have a backstory.

Roger Craig Smith is fucking great you dumb nigger

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>new game
source?

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Sonic characters have a general body type, but none of them look like a re-shelling of Sonic save for Shadow, Silver and maybe Knuckles.

I was referring to this game, since it's only a few weeks away from release now.
The only big issue it has is that it doesn't take advantage of Sonic's huge cast of characters to pad out the roster, but hopefully they expand the game with DLC

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Sonic characters since Adventure have looked like shitty Looney Tunes knock-offs. You know the typical American High-School mascot kind-of knock off? Exactly like that. They act terrible as well, Sonic deserves the position of being the ass-end of all jokes

Megaman = Mostly enjoyable cast of characters, both playable and none playable

Street Fighter = Majority fun cast of fighter characters, just like in something like Smash

Mario = Half of the cast is either so bland it's simple and doesn't get on your nerves all too much, at most stay in spinoffs so no one gets mad about it

Sonic = forces in many new characters purely for plot/gimmick gameplay/rival for Sonic, with only the front 6 from Amy to Metal being the most enjoyable, until they royally fucked up half of them in some way like characterization/gameplay/plot (or all 3) in the early years, namely Shadow and Amy, then later on fucked up Knuckles and Tails, then lastly Sonic. While the rest of the cast are either annoying (Silver/Charmy/Big/The Babylon Rogues and even the Chaotix in some varying degrees) or literally the source of shitposting via porn (Rouge)

There, I spelled it out to ya. The one and only unfucked character in that image is Eggman. And this DOESN'T even show all of Sonic's "friends" in the slightest, there's the infamous "Freedom Fighters" that spawned the cancer that was Ken Penders and dramashit in Sonic, there's Black Doom, G.U.N., Blaze and Marine (both of which are dead and underused in varying degrees), the Zeti, the Boom cast that only has Sticks staying as the pseudo relevant one for obvious reasons, the characters from the storybook games, Chip "Light Gaia", I could go on. All within a series that the entirety of 90s Americans thought Sonic was meant to be as simple as Mario, just cooler. No, Sonic DOES have far too many characters for a series as simple as the classic era presented itself, which in itself is like Kirby. In fact even when Kirby went off the deep end with lore shit, most of the rememberable cast are just 8 or so characters out of all the Kirby games, so it stays simple and to the point.

I mean, I didn't even mention old abandon characters only recently mentioned again, like Mighty, Ray, etc.

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>with only the front 6 from Amy to Metal being the most enjoyable
I didn't know opinion was fact

The majority of the ones you listed in the second to last paragraph are oneshots other continuities, with only G.U.N., Blaze and Zavok having any bearing on your point.
>All within a series that the entirety of 90s Americans thought Sonic was meant to be as simple as Mario, just cooler. No, Sonic DOES have far too many characters for a series as simple as the classic era presented itself, which in itself is like Kirby. In fact even when Kirby went off the deep end with lore shit, most of the rememberable cast are just 8 or so characters out of all the Kirby games, so it stays simple and to the point.
The problem is less "Sonic has too many characters" and more "Sonic tries to get too many characters involved at too many points, which is partially what leads to the writing snafus.

*are either oneshots or from other continuities.

Sonic even rarely uses them all together in the same game. I haven't seen the birds outside of the Riders games.

I wouldn't mind a new Sonic Riders also. Not a meme game or on a meme console, no, a game with actual effort put in it for current gen consoles.

Jet and Wave have been in Mario and Sonic games at least

Literally half the characters you mentioned are either one off characters (Black Doom, G.U.N.), Completely divergent from the games (Freedom Fighters) or are basically relegated to spin off just like Mario, only ever showing up for minor speaking roles (literally everyone but Sonic and now Shadow). As they are now, there is literally no reason to bitch about Sonic's extended cast, you can complain about their origins but that means little at all now.

It was cool in the classic games to have varied styles of flight or punching/gliding to go with sonic usual blitzing in a level and also short moments of characterization you’d get in cutscenes (that also didn’t need voice acting)

They didn’t really follow that trend kf varied gameplay well. It was a trainwreck in the adventure games, Heroes had a good thing going but gets repeatitive since you got 4 teams doing the same things relative to the trinity of speed, flight and power. Basically the sonic friends being bad thing became a thing in 2006.

You have characters flanderized into simplistic caricatures, they retcon and then killed off Blaze, you have one of the worse characters forced onto you as a main character and the amigo system is just garbage (ironically except for Blaze the cat). Ever since 2006, new characters aren’t treated the way we would look at a new roster member in a fighting game; they just felt and looked like gimmicks because that’s how sonic team treats them as.

The problem is that they can't establish a stable lore in the games at least (Flynn Tried really hard to fit in all the Games and Cartoon and Comic lore together which somewhat worked untill Pender sperged out), they could have built on the SA2 lore but refused, same with the 09 lore, unleashed lore, even the fucking Colors and Lost World lore which while Mario tier bland had something. Once a Game ends they for some reason start a whole new direction, Zelda also has this issue, only that the games are good enough that people ignore the Timeline autism

Blaze and Silver have appeared in way too many games that they lore wise don't belong in, Shadow being a Gun agent is barely mentioned at all , and Knuckles for some reason can't stay to guard the master emerald. It's one massive mess that they need to sit down and try to sort out

Sonic fans will make the dumbest comparisons to defend their dying franchise.

Gamma is a friend of a friend that the least
And Chaos is at good terms with Sonic by the end of Adventure

The issue with the lore was only really a thing around 06. The games prior to that usually built on one another as they went on. SA2 for example is followed up in Heroes (where Shadow returns) and Shadow the Hedgehog (building on Shadow's origin and why Gerald created the Eclipse Cannon) but also a bit in Sonic Battle (since Gerald's research is what lead to Eggman finding Emerl, can't remember if the Echidnas being involved was a Battle or Chronicles creation) which itself got a bit of a denouement in Sonic Advance 3 (Gemerl). Even the classic games kinda had it in the Japanese manuals, which are generally more detailed.
Then 06 kinda rebooted everything, then Colors soft-rebooted everything in the other direction.
>even the fucking Colors and Lost World lore which while Mario tier bland had something.
Actually, all the games since Colors have this sort of weird thing where they introduce stuff, but never go out of their way to explain it. The Lost Hex, the Zeti, the Phantom Ruby, the Time Eater, nothing is really explained well and when we do get explanations, they just raise more questions (the Phantom Ruby is fancy VR despite everything in Sonic Mania). Eggman's conquest of the world in Forces happens entirely offscreen.

It actually was a problem for megaman. Can you name all the characters? X Zero Protoman dr light dr wily sigma

this. And with sega it will always be bad. sonic by himself is bad (secret rings, lost world, sonic 4) and sonic with friends is bad (shadow, 06, heroes for some people). Its just sega that's incompetent.

Apparently the new lore explanation is "There's the Human World and Sonic World", and it's what the comic is being forced to go under. Ignore that Angel Island is a train ride away from Central City, and that if Knuckles does show up in this Human World, he's a whole dimension away from Angel Island.

I hope they are DLC for TSR. It would make sense.

Yeah, again it's all in the game's context, if it's a spinoff like Team Sonic Racing or Sonic Riders, feel free to pad the game out with a shit load of different characters, if it's a story heavy 3D game, feel free to only include a character if they can play an important role in the story that's being written and it makes sense

I mean, they had their vast of fans back in the day tbf. Amy was liked in Adv1 because of his unique, but workable gameplay to the standard Sonic style, Shadow became one of the most popular addition in SA2 as is one of the reasons many zoomers like said game, Tails was a crowd favorite over the years since Sonic 2 to the tail end of the boost era, and same goes for Knuckles. Metal has been a "cult" favorite for those that grew up and enjoyed Sonic CD and the OVA movie. But by the time the other cast in that image came up, not to mention when they started fucking up the likeable characters as well, like ruining the entire point to Shadow's backstory and point of his narritive in SA2 with Heroes and his own game, or Amy becoming more and more insane and "destructive" as of the same timespawn Shadow had, which painted a negative picture for not only Amy herself, but made a big in fight with the Sallyfags of the SatAM comics bickering about "who's Sonic's girl", which lasted years. Look at how people actually started liking Amy now ever since they toned that shit down starting with Unleashed, then Boom Amy happened, then as of Mania Adventures, they actually made her more cute and fun again like in her earlier appearances.

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If they aren't the first team added to the game, they can easily be the last. Can go either way for me, provided they can add maybe 3-4 extra teams in total to help add more variety and content

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>Wario and Luigi
>anything like Mario

No, not really. Classic has a super-simple cast, X had a slightly bigger cast, but nothing hard to keep track of, I can't speak for the Zero series on, so I dunno about those.
Battle Network and Star Force I can see being a bit more of a problem but their nature (people having digital pet-esque PDAs) kinda lends itself to having one.

There's nothing wrong with Sonic having multiple playable characters and I despise the autistic parrots who resulted in us only ever getting Sonic playable
There is something wrong with them adding a random retarded character every single game, particularly when they are shittily designed and pointless like Chip

Not him, but both started off as literally "Green/Bad Mario". However, over time, they diverged into their own characters.

>Elise
>Chip
>Shara
>Caliburn
Why is it that only Yacker was enjoyable out of all of these single game companions that have been added since 06? Is it because he couldn't talk?

>moving the goalposts

The difference is that those "one offs" STILL had been forced as major plot points, most has ruined the perspective of Sonic before that point, which only zoomers that played SA1/2 first wouldn't think was off because that's how they only viewed Sonic as. At worse half of the old fanbase didn't like the serious direction for a "simple" series, said half is the same that didn't like SatAM characters either. They do matter because of WHY they existed in the first place, Black Doom ain't no Waluigi or Tron Bonne, yet he played more of a importance in one game (and likely more if the game didn't flop) than both combined. Hell he was reused again in the archie comics around the same time.

It's not that hard seeing as the franchise is divided into sub-series

I will never understand some of the choices here.

A lot of missed opportunities here for sure.
>taking Cream out and adding the chaos when you could make a team with the small Chaos+big Chaos and other cool pick for an interest DLC
>Blaze and Silver not paired with Nega, Vector not with the rest of the Chaotix
I'll just give it the red dude, I can tell they kinda want to show love to their latest projects so I won't criticize. But they should at least port Lost World to anything other than the Wii U and 3DS lol fucking Sega.

Probably because he actually isn't in the game very much, Yacker disappears from the story at some point which Tails brings up in the second to last world (depending on what order you chose to do the areas in) and I think the implication they were going for is that he got captured and turned into a Nega Wisp but was restored when they saved the day

Really makes you think...
Hell if they didn't force them as the Mario Power ups of nuSonic era I'd like him and his recolored army more.

Which proves the point.

>(and likely more if the game didn't flop)
Considering that he died at the end of said appearance, it's unlikely. Meanwhile, Waluigi and Tron appear in more than one game with one being a mainstay in spinoffs while the other had her own spinoff and usually appears in crossovers where Legends is involved.
>Hell he was reused again in the archie comics around the same time.
That's moreso because the writer of the Archie comics is an absolute madman that loves tying everything together. Even then, the Black Arms didn't show up until post-reboot and by that time Doom was dead (with successor also being killed off and the only significant Black Arm remaining not being like them).
Overall, the Sonic series in general has tone problems. Sure games like SA2 and Shadow were dark, but Heroes was light-hearted and everything not related to the Knuckles' tribe or the latter half of Gamma's story in SA is pretty standard Sonic affair (or even beyond in the case of Big).
And, again, the Freedom Fighters had little to no impact on the games, especially with how lowly we know Sega of Japan thinks of Sega of America.

Yeah, I don't get why they felt the need to have Wisps show up in every game after Colors.

I don't really get them either but I'm guessing this is what they decided on:
>SEGA's not giving us a huge budget for this game and we want to not reuse out of context voice clips for this one, so we're going to lessen the amount of characters to put that budget towards the voice acting
>Prioritized popular characters like Blaze and Silver
>Chao got into the base game as a minor reference to the Chao Races
>Vector put with Silver and Blaze because they wanted each character to be unique in terms of their song for their special move, and if they had the Chaotix intact, they would each share a song
At the very least I think their exclusions can lead to some creative DLC teams if they choose to address the absence of Espio, Cream, and Charmy. They can easily make two teams out of those picks alone, like having Vanilla and Gemerl be Cream's teammates. No idea who would be the Power type for Espio and Charmy though.

You can tell this character refused to sign with Sega agan because otherwise they would be using him in their games much more.

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So Sonic can have different play styles without resorting to switching to one of his friends.

I only fap to Tails and the females, the rest of the cast is practivally useless.

>there's the infamous "Freedom Fighters" that spawned the cancer
What? Freedom Fighters are characters, not writers that manage the characters. They NEVER spawned any kind of cancer. In fact, that's not what happened at all.

SEGA is the one to be blamed for all of this trouble for not intervening at the moment Penders was starting to clog the comic with thousands of unfitting "echidnas" aliens and extreme squirrel drama as soon as possible.

Sonic cast is terrible though, even Sonic is a bad character.

The only times I would say they're justified are Generations and TSR. In Generations it was just for two stages and it was originally from Colors, makes sense. In TSR they're the item pickups and help give the game a Sonic esque identity, since they couldn't just reuse some of the items from All Stars Racing and Transformed.
I'll give credit to Forces for actually doing something new with the Wisps in the Wispons, but it ends up being underutilized in the actual game

It's a series for kids chief. When I was 10 it was enough for me that Espio was a mysterious ninja and Amy loved Sonic and Shadow was edgy. They don't need to be 3 dimensional characters.

>Sonic has a large number of characters
>But only Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Silver and Shadow are used
Here's the problem

Always found it interesting how Knuckles' story involved two robots against him while Eggman wasn't involved in any way

>What? Freedom Fighters are characters, not writers that manage the characters. They NEVER spawned any kind of cancer. In fact, that's not what happened at all.
You took that post entirely wrong. Those characters "spawned"
>Soap opera drama to the Sonic series
>Branched off the fanbase into either liking game canon characters or non canon comic characters
>Ken Penders was signed on to work on Archie, hence the FF gets tagged for "spawning him"

These characters that make up the Archieverse all caused issues even SEGA doesn't want to deal with, not just because they are gaijin characters, they are "suppose" to be major characters in Sonic's world, but they aren't relevant to anything made in Japan, so there's a conflict. It doesn't matter how or unfair it is, by definition that's one reason why the "too many characters" counts for them; they are meant to be relevant to Sonic, but aren't, like half of the game characters are today, which was also had a similar start of "being relevant then dropped" years latter.

Wait what was the other robot

The reason was his story happened after Sonic and Tails saved Angel Island. It starts off with Knuckles resting in the forest section of AI, then got ambushed by a rogue Egg Robo, which started his Adventure to stop him, only for Mecha Sonic to run into him when he was trying to steal the master emerald from Knuckles.

>and TSR.
Hell fucking no. SRB2 Kart utterly proves that Wisps are NOT needed at all.

Eggrobo + Mecha Sonic

06 was never ehy the series was irredeemable, it has more to do with the fact that the 3d games have inherently bad gameplay and the characters designs both artistically and personality-wise are shallower than a kiddy pool and only appeal to children and literal autistic people

>Soap opera drama to the Sonic series
This wasn't really something the Freedom Fighters caused directly. In fact, the earliest Archie comics were like AOSTH in tone rather than the soap operas that would dominate the series.
It's not the characters that are the issue, it's what the writers do with them.
>Branched off the fanbase into either liking game canon characters or non canon comic characters
Is liking both just not an option? Why can you only like something if it's canon?
Lot's of people like the Sonic OVA and that sure as hell isn't canon.
>Ken Penders was signed on to work on Archie, hence the FF gets tagged for "spawning him"
Ken did work on Archie, but the Freedom Fighters didn't get the worst of it (especially since he tried to get Sally killed off)/ Ken generally gravitated more towards Knuckles his knuckles books generally have way more drama and probably caused the book way more issues in the long run when Sonic Adventure happened.
>they are meant to be relevant to Sonic, but aren't, like half of the game characters are today, which was also had a similar start of "being relevant then dropped" years latter.
The difference is that they were relevent to a specific medium. Sega had no obligation to include them in the games, but that doesn't mean that they weren't relevant to the medium they spawned from.

I could get behind any reason, as long the game is good I'll play it.

For Espio and Charmy I think it might be Bark, if he's not in a DLC with Fang and the armadillo dude from Chaotix. It's an extensive list of friends to chose from lol
Forgetting someone there

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They aren't needed, no, but they were obviously going for a balanced and in universe item system. It works fine for what it is.

wew. Ever since I was a kid I thought those were random enemies spreaded around the stage. He died in one hit didn't he?

MegaMan is in that picture

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user I like Metal, but Mania and the racing spinoffs are the only action he's seen in ages.
Forces should count itself lucky that the IDW comic capitalized on him not really being there.

They were, but in the ending with all seven Chaos Emeralds (but not Super emeralds), one of the Eggrobos emerges from the wreckage.
Then, in Knuckles' Sonic and Knuckles intro, the Eggrobo attacks Knuckles in the intro cutscene.

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Aren't mario characters the same way?

That's because they are.
It's just one of them that targets Knuckles throughout his storyline in 3&K
It's looking pretty good so far. Most of the gripes people seem to have, roster aside that is, are really non issues or just because it isn't what they want it to be.

Ideal Sonic cast = Classic Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Metal Sonic and Robotnik

>but they were obviously going for a balanced and in universe item system. It works fine for what it is.
That's not my point. My point is Wisps shouldN'T be included (in a game that has looked awful ever since it's reveal, so it doesn't matter anyway, but still) at all in the first place. They should have stayed on Colors, and NEVER re-appear again, just like many other elements introduced on Colors. Instead doing what SRB2 Kart has done, they still insisted on re-using Wisps.

The items weren't really original and unique to begin with in the first two All-Stars games. Now, the situation got worse with, again, Wisps.

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>I have a hard time believing my enjoyment of Sonic CD makes me an autist any more than any other video game.
You must have brain damage to specifically enjoy the worst of the 2D Sonics

why does every character in sonic have the exact same body type aside from eggman, vector, and big?

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It's the best of the 2D sonics.

>They should have stayed on Colors, and NEVER re-appear again
You say that but there was a reason for them to return in gens. Lost World and Forces were the problems.

Most of Sonics "characters" are created for one game then dumped, who gives a shit

I offered a solution.

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Eggman because he's a human
Vector because he's /fit/
Big because he's fat
The rest are normal mobians

It's not like the Wisps will determine the game's quality or have any effect on it though. It's really a minor thing. If it's really that big a deal for you, just the sight of them being in the game at all, then feel free to skip it, it's not a huge loss and this game definitely won't be for everyone. If we had our way, yeah, having more wacky item box powerups straight out of the Classics would have been great, or even just a smaller amount of items to keep things even more balanced, but one element of a non canon spinoff game isn't going to make the entire thing shit. Chances are if you still think it looks like shit even with the newer footage showing the improvements or neat stages, having the items be based on stuff like Speed Shoes and the Elemental Shields wouldn't have really changed your opinion in the slightest, it would still be the same game, just with a different item system.

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It's too bad he made a patreon. He could have still been making it if it weren't for that.

>>On a related note, there was a period of time where Sega was shoehorning every character into a game regardless of the gameplay and plot
Aye this is the main one, in that megaman picture the majority of those characters are in their own line of games/spin-offs with no interaction between an occasional crossover (even then the NT crossover was in the same continuity/series).

The Sonic characters are arbitrarily introduced most the time the characters that they bring back serve next to no purpose. It's to the point of redundancy since Metal and Shadow are both Sonic's evil counterpart.

Contrast to the Mario series where new characters are created sparingly. They only ever create new characters only when necessary for a function in the game. e.g. Yoshi was made to be Mario's Steed, Wario to be his evil doppelganger, Waluigi to be Wario's Tennis partner. The closest Mario got to Sonic was Paper Mario where TTYD created a set of characters who largely had the same abilities as the cast of the 1st game.

Lots of inbreeding going on in that island.

Why do you think Eggman is trying to do animal control there?

metal sonic is actually evil, shadow is just an edgy shonen rival.

The same applies to Mario as well. Usually its just the main cast of Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser with the occasional Toad while everyone else is in a spin off.
But with Sonic from Heroes onwards he always had to have those friends. They were all even in Shadow's game minus Big.

Metal is the Bahamut of the Sonic series. He appears as a secret boss fight, says nothing and is defeated

Remember when he was actually involved in the main plot as the main villain?

Heck, even Luigi tends to sit games out or just cameo if they can't find a good role for him (64, Sunshine, Odyssey prior to the Balloon World update). Mario, Peach and Bowser are the only constants.

Speaking of Alvin Earthworm, I saw him flipping shit on Twitter over Peach being one of the best characters in SSBU, because that didn't follow every Smash character's canon power levels or some shit. I know he obviously had to be a little weird to make SMBZ, but I didn't realize exactly how weird.

Nobody gave a shit about the comics when it came to the loads of character meme. The complaint stems from the fact SA era games kept introducing more and more characters with shit/medicore gameplay in crap sonic games. As a result they just became one more complaint on the list of already bad programming.

Imagine being thay much of an autist.

>He appears as a secret boss fight, says nothing and is defeated
Outside of Heroes, no not really. Most times he shows up, it's as Eggman's right-hand-man or at least a major boss fight.
That said, Sonic 4 Episode 2 was the last time he was truly relevant.

Have you ever noticed that video game "journalists" always put Sonic's friends on "worst video game characters" lists?

Seriously, Tails and Amy aren't that bad.

How do you fix this franchise?
hard mode: not killing it

who said it's a problem? The problem is that they forget about every new character they introduce after a game or two, only seen again in a spinoff.

Part-and-parcel of the "Sonic was never good" mentality: Sonic's shitty friends.
Just make a modern-day Mania/Something like Sonic Advance.
Take the Mario route and have characters show up when the story can feasibly allow for them to show up, not just have them there for the sake of being there.

>They don't play like Sonic
This hasn't been the case since Sonic Adventure 2.

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>reduce playable character count to 4
>make them unique in how they play
>leave everyone else for spin offs
Simple.

>80% of megaman's characters are one off bosses, doesn't count in the slightest
>SF is a fucking fighting game, why is this a point
>95% of mario's cast shows up in sports/party spinoffs, why is this a point either
sonic's friends are shoved in whenever they can, whenever they have to make them playable it just means that sonic gets less attention in development

>reduce playable character count to 4
Can we stop this meme? There hasn't been a playable character count that high since fucking Sonic 06. 13 fucking years ago. Unless you really think Mania has 1 too many characters.

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Street Fighter tries to have memorable characters.

Had nothing to do with the patreon or Nintendo, he just had yet another mental breakdown and swore off animating forever again.

Because before Heroes, Sonic's design was specifically meant for rolling, physics based gameplay, so everyone had to be designed for that.
You can not make Big playable in something like Mania because he cannot fit into things that need to be in a ball for. But in 3D games like Heroes, they stopped caring, but look how hoaky it looks to see Omega curl up into a ball.

>>reduce playable character count to 4
>reduce
user, I...

Did it ever occur to you that some people want MORE playable characters but want them to be more than Sonic + Red, Yellow and Pink Sonic?

Amy in Advance was honestly the best unique character that's ever been in a Sonic game.

Well in my opinion she was pretty unique in Adventure. She was appropriately fast for a 3D platformer and the hammer was an ok weapon.

The only way is to make classic Sonic sequels by Evening Star, get a new team for Modern Sonic to reinvent the Adventure style again, then when both gets good shit for a few years, slowly merge the two into one again, as one Sonic with the strengths of both classic and modern.

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If you say "reduce" you aren't talking about "what-if's" you're saying there already exists a problem. We are overdue for some other playable character but you fucks are already pretending it could only mean Big the fucking Cat's fishing adventures in every game.

Ray and Mighty were fun. Fuck the "Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are the only characters allowed to exist" kneejerk haters.

Learn from the past mistakes and start getting your shit together. Listening to fan feedback too.

They did it with Generations and the kept fucking up bad. They seem to be listening more to their fans demands better now, Mania was a good new start too

Ah also, fuck Nintendo. Don't make Sonic exclusives for their consoles, the games go there to die and never leave. People will know less about those games. Put them on PC as well as the other consoles. Im not buying a Wii U to play Lost World.

>There hasn't been a playable character count that high since fucking Sonic 06.
What is Sonic Boom, technically Sonic Forces, and Sonic Mania?

I have never played sonic games so I can't compare, but your points sounds interesting. Care for a further explanation?

>Sonic Boom
Only had 4 playable characters. That meets his criteria.
>technically Sonic Forces
Fuck you, a character creator doesn't = multiple playable characters. It's Sonic, Classic Sonic, Avatar, and I guess there was Shadow in DLC? That's still 4 and meets his criteria.
>Sonic Mania
Read the whole post next time.

>Megaman
Those are completely different timelines and universes what the fuck?
>Street Fighter
thats a fucking fighting game you're supposed to drop and keep characters all the time for your roster
>Mario
Mario has the problem of dropping characters constantly if anything he's the exact opposite of Sonic's issue while still maintaining a problem of his own.
>Sonic
It's only a problem in the 3D games because they're too different from Sonic's gameplay which should be getting to the goal as fast as possible. That's the only gameplay style that should be in Sonic games but Sonic Team insists that "no we need fishing, beat em ups, shooting, a really slow character, etc"

Yes there definitely needs to be fresh blood with creative control who were fans of the Adventure games. They also need to have an open deadline. Honestly Sega needs to treat Sonic like Nintendo does The Legend of Zelda and insist delays and push backs until it's polished. Then maybe we'll have another platinum Sonic game were replaying for decades.

Dr. Mario is Blue Mario.

>fuck nintendo for making sonic exclusive
Are you retarded? Nintendo has no say in exclusivity for sonic, it's entirely up to sega. Sonic forces came out on PC as well so it's not like they haven't ever put a game on PC

Lost World is on PC. Hoping Colors and Unleashed get added on there at some point
What user meant is that 3D Sonic games tend to make every character have some odd gimmick to them rather than doing what the GOAT Sonic game, 3 & Knuckles, did. Make each character play basically the same but have their own stats and a special ability they can perform. Mania did this, and it shows that it works, considering the Twitter account still has it pinned that it's the highest rated game in years. The development going to make each character unique came to a head with Sonic 06, which had far too many various unique playstyles to manage.

You just said the last time we had a character roster "that high" was since 06, but I after 3 games after that game that has.

The real answer you mean was "the last time we had anyone that wasn't just Sonic but a different color" or more actually "the last time Sonic stopped having shitty gameplay styles disguised as Sonic characters."

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>but I after 3 games after that game that has.
Yikes, I had a stroke
>but I offered 3 games after that game that has.

"That high" as in "could be reduced to 4." So no, you're incorrect for the reasons already stated.

Why did Sega scrapped the chaos garden after SA2? That shit was legetimate comfy and a perfectly fine break from the main levels.
>why did Sega
Oh yeah that. I forgot who I was talking about

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I think we both have different views on what "reduced" means.

>Boom - Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy
>Forces - Sonic (Modern), Sonic (Classic), Avatar, Shadow
>Mania - Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray

Which you could say the latter counts against it, but that's still since Boom we had 4. I mean, if you meant "only 4" then 06 wasn't because there were 10+ characters in that game you could control before. The last time there were just 4... was like Sonic Advance 1.

I was talking about Sega, they're the ones calling the shots to make games for Nintendo. Wasted so much development in crappy games with waggle controls and other gimmicks.

Oh yeah that one actually went to the PC. Colors is the next best game after Generations, that game needs a port especially with them shilling the Wisps so much.

I miss it I really love the chao. I even bought pic related because I love the chao so fucking much (I'm also pretty excited for TSR too) they need to make a new chao garden because it added not only a new mode to SA1 and SA2 but it also added a nice chunk of replayability. Hell if Forces had a chao garden despite that shit heap that game is I would probably still be playing it for the chao garden alone.

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Unleashed director quit after Unleashed bombed.

The only recent exclusives are Colors, Lost World and Boom, and considering how the latter two ended up, you're really not missing out on much.

Jesus christ please stop posting.
Fucking word diarrhea.

*And as someone pointed out, Lost world got ported eventually anyway.

Just popped in to say that literally 80% of the characters in the megaman pictures are variations of the titular megaman

user, I feel I've been very clear. You just admitted those games have only 4 characters. user was saying "REDUCE the characters to 4 playable." Why would games that only have 4 playable characters apply in such a statement? They can't be reduced when they already have 4 playable characters.

I swear you're doing this on purpose.

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That really does look like Sonic Battle style doesn't it?

Well its Tyson Hesse's style but Sonic Battle had a pretty neat art style too.

That's actually a pretty legit shirt. I don't wear a lot of game shirts, but I feel like that one's acceptable.

Agreed, I would love to see it in HD
Here's hoping they do come back at some point

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Um, user, did you just forgot why this thread exist or something? What do you think that user meant from "reduce"? He meant kill off all but 4 of the cast of Sonic game characters, namely in OPs pic, which likely means just keep Sonic, Tails, Amy & Knuckles, since that's what I always see people mean when they say "only have the main 4 in Sonic + Eggman".

Yeah I know it's him that did it, but he seemed to have nailed it being nearly exact to it.

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>He meant kill off all but 4 of the cast of Sonic game characters
If that's what he meant, he should have said it. Pretty big gap between "reduce" which could mean just for a single game and "kill off in canon"

>the games go there to die and never leave
Funny because that's where they've seen the most success since Sega stopped making consoles.

>Shadow the hedgehog
>Knuckles chaotix

Ironically the Mobile games have somewhat fixed this issue , The Sonic Forces one in particular

Actually, if this is to be believed, it's pretty stable across the board.
tssznews.com/2016/11/29/in-depth-sonic-sales-on-nintendo-platforms/
Granted, that was 3 years ago at this point.

Yet they actively make the games worse because of their shit hardware. All that work spent on the HE lighting and shit in Unleashed, completely gutted and whitewashed for baby Nintendo's system. This would have never happened if SEGA teamed up with PS. Hell Colors, Lost World and Forces would have all been more polished games that used uncapped HE1 to its fullest instead of that "cleaner" trash that is the HE2 they spent 3 years on, then in the 4th year make Sonic Forces on Lost World's engine.

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>They need a to do what Mario does and give the characters there own spin off games
>Tails' Sky Patrol
>Tails' Adventure
>Tails' and the Music Maker
>Dr. Robotnik's mean bean machine
>Knuckles Chaotix
>Shadow the Hedgehog

The Shadow game pisses me off because of its potential

It sold like 2.1m in a few months and only after the poor reviews did Sega stop selling it , had the game actually been good it could have outsold even SA2 and perhaps started a spin off game series

If they removed the Guns and Vehicles and made it one linear route storywise it would have been a massive success

>Each game got worst and worse each time after
Hmm, I wonder why they stopped?...

Pardon me for my technological ignorance, but what was stopping them from using the Generations engine, if Lost World was that kneecapped?
Surely the Switch could run that.

>If they removed the Guns and Vehicles and made it one linear route storywise it would have been a massive success
This guy gets it. Also don't fuck up Shadow's backstory and it would have singlehanded made Shadow a better character to like then he is today.

>Yet they actively make the games worse because of their shit hardware.
Yeah which is why sonic 06, the single most broken game to date, came out on the more powerful systems at the time while every sonic on Nintendo systems, despite being underwhelming bar Colors were stable right?

Maybe, just maybe power has nothing to do with how good a game is?

Colors ran on the Storybook games' engine though, and I still don't get why they didn't just use that for Lost World instead of gutting their already fine engine

>completely gutted and whitewashed for baby Nintendo's system.
You mean the ps2.

Frien, where do I buy that shirt

>but what was stopping them from using the Generations engine
The fact SEGA never back up anything they make. They wrote over Generations FOR Lost World's engine. It's why they needed to remake HE2 in the first place, because the HE1 couldn't work on the Wii U, and they made the game look all toy like and tried to hide it as "it's for a classic style of feeling!~" Nah, it doesn't make sense when even colors didn't look like that, then the game that follows after lost World was Forces.

Heroes doesn't count because that was built for the Gamecube first, then ported over to PS. For games like Generations, it would have been the other way around, and of course games like Unleashed and Generations can't work on the Wii, hence their dummy down remade versions of the HD games.

twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1121831071589421056

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shop.sega.com/products/team-sonic-racing-chao-t-shirt

This would have been the smarter thing to do, but you know, Sonic Team is Sonic Team. They really thought they could just scrap boost after years of making it bring back Sonic's image, would actually be a smart idea.

>The fact SEGA never back up anything they make. They wrote over Generations FOR Lost World's engine.
Then that's less Nintendo's problem and Sega being idiots. Which is par for the course at this rate.
I understand that Devs can only do so much before the console makers themselves are to blame, but it sounds like Sega was overconfident with Lost World and basically shot themselves in the foot (which, again, is Sega being Sega).

I know that this will be mostly autism, but hear me out: why don't sega blame inconsistacies on in-universe reasons?reason why '06 is soft-reboot was because it's not the first iteration of timeloop. Each time sonic blows out flames of disaster, time paradox creates a new timeline, each bit more diffrent from the last. And every single one is destroyed bySolaris/Mephelis himself. In each cycle he gets more power. Everything plays in his hands. But he never manages to grasp the power of chaos emeralds. That's where his new plan comes in: he destroys the classic/human/sonic/blaze worlds, but allows their heroes to survive. After they travel through enough shards of the universes, resquing characters(they could populate hub base and unlock options (tails allows to replay levels, cream allows to access chao garden, alternative missions)) and chaos emeralds. Super Sonic falls into his trap, but defeats him anyway. Universe is rebooted, hopefully sega writes something sensable.

You literally can't be this stupid, right? And how not broken Secret Rings and Black Knight was on the Wii? 06 being broken shit has NOTHING to do with the PS/Xbox's tech at all. It was literally because the shipped out game was the alpha build of 06 when the beta version couldn't be finished because of a game breaking bug SEGA gave no time for the team to fix. The game is literally a tech demo with a $60 (or maybe $40) price tag, it wouldn't have been any different if it was made for the Gamecube.

>16 euros
Oh my fuck so cheap. Please don't be sold out when I get home.

They already kinda had an out via the Time Eater, but that was before the inconsistencies started really piling up.

Simple, cause they never do any cool shit with Sonic's friends.

Adventure series was the last time they did something with the characters that wasnt just completely tacked on and felt incomplete, that some people fondly remember. Personally, I think they just need to double down on that shit and make something worthwhile out of the extended cast's gameplay.

I actually really liked where they were going with Silver's focus on platforming and puzzles rather than speed, and if he had his own game based around it, that wasnt 06, It couldve been solid. Psychonauts but with Sonic characters even. But nah, because he debuted in the mess that was 06, he's goddam poison to everybody.

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>Heroes doesn't count because that was built for the Gamecube first, then ported over to PS
Who's talking about Heroes? Initially HD Unleashed was going to be a 360 exclusive with a dumbed down Ps2 version until they realised they could also put that on the wii with little effort. Then after all was said and done they made a quick port of the HD version to ps3 which sucks ass.

You can't just handwave Nintendo you drone, if their hardward was gaming standard to the rest of gaming, it wouldn't be a problem. No one would care if Sonic sold better on Nintendo, if it didn't meant his games got crippled of his potential thanks to their low end hardware. Sonic was designed to be better than Mario since the 90s, hardware not withstanding, so of course Sonic always needed more than Nintendo's power to make his games better, it's just how he was created.

>it wouldn't have been any different if it was made for the Gamecube.
Of course it would have, then they wouldn't have to put up with the ps3's horrid architecture.
That said I like how you just completely ignored how the wii games were more structurally sound than any of the ps3 games. Hell you focused almost entirely on graphics until now.

>if their hardward was gaming standard to the rest of gaming, it wouldn't be a problem.
Hardware literally has nothing to do with how good a game is so that's an irrelevant point to make in the first place.
Even then the series was never "crippled" by it since two completely different sets of developers would make games for the different systems with Dimps usually taking on Nintendo development.

>Initially HD Unleashed was going to be a 360 exclusive with a dumbed down Ps2 version until they realised they could also put that on the wii with little effort.
...No, that's not what happened. It was going to be on both systems from the start, but Microsoft didn't want the PS3 version to come out before theirs would, so SEGA forced 06 out the door to market to both at the same time. The Wii had nothing to do with any of that, that was planned to be ported to the Wii until they realize the system's specs was no where as powerful to the likes of the PS3, so they cut the dev teams in half to work on Sonic and Secret Rings.

In short, 06 was built for higher end systems, but the only reason it was a broken mess because all thanks to SEGA's retardation of dev time, but Sonic Team's issues getting the beta build fixed in time to make a less buggy game in the end.

> if their hardward was gaming standard to the rest of gaming, it wouldn't be a problem.
Nintendo didn't ask them to make Lost World on the engine they made it on. Nintendo didn't tell them to throw away the boost design.
Surely, they could have just made a boost game with Colors' engine or even Generations' if it could run on the Wii U. But instead Sega made a new gameplay style, overwrote their engine without making backups and then tried to reuse the Lost World engine rather than make a new one more suited to the game they were making.
It's basically the same issue that Sonic 1 GBA had from the sounds of it and that was just Sega being totally incompetent.

>, if it didn't meant his games got crippled of his potential thanks to their low end hardware
Crippled how exactly? In fact boost gameplay began on Nintendo systems while 06 was just rehashing Adventure 1 again.

>That said I like how you just completely ignored how the wii games were more structurally sound than any of the ps3 games.
>Unleashed and Generation is more broken than Sonic and Secret Rings, Black Knight and Colors to this retard

Kill yourself fucking Nintenigger.

>...No, that's not what happened
You expect me to believe some user who can't even get his story straight? Hell no devs teams were half for any of the Nintendo games, you couldn't even get that detail right

>Hardware literally has nothing to do with how good a game is so that's an irrelevant point to make in the first place.
Yeah, it does. If you make a game for a higher end system, you're not going to have it magically work on weaker hardware you retard, just look at what happened to Sonic Boom. It was built on a engine that wasn't even supported by the fucking Wii U

Get educated.
>Even then the series was never "crippled" by it since two completely different sets of developers would make games for the different systems with Dimps usually taking on Nintendo development.
user I'm talking about Sonic Team. Heroes and Shadow was the only game made for the Gamecube in mind. Not 06. And don't bring up the Adventure games, on one had they are Dreamcast games and the Gamecube was more powerful to handle them.

>Unleashed and Generation is more broken than Sonic and Secret Rings, Black Knight and Colors to this retard
So how are they more broken then.
Oh and don't think I didn't notice how you moved it from 06 to Unleashed and Gens.

:D ty

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>Mario, Peach and Bowser are the only constants.
Since the very first game. In Sonic's case you could easily just have Sonic, Tails and Eggman.

>Nintendo didn't ask them to make Lost World on the engine they made it on.
Uh, yes they did, they had a 3 Sonic exclusive deal they had with Nintendo. Stop shilling you drone spastic.

> they could have just made a boost game with Colors' engine or even Generations' if it could run on the Wii U.
Look at faggot and READ, Generations was rewritten for Lost World, and if they could use Colors, they wanted to use the most recent tool available, Colors was a 5 year old game at the time of Lost World.

>It's basically the same issue that Sonic 1 GBA had from the sounds of it and that was just Sega being totally incompetent.
That was done by Dimps.

Sounds exactly to me like you're the biggest autist around.

>human characters
>furry shit

Hmmm, yes. Why is that bad again?

>Mega Man's near fucking dead and doesn't ever care about its cast beyond the first four
>Street Fighter is a fighting game franchise and thus requires large casts of characters otherwise it's just Ryu vs Ryu all day
>Mario pimps out literally all of its characters for merch purposes and still manages to forget most of them when they aren't immediately marketable

>Uh, yes they did, they had a 3 Sonic exclusive deal they had with Nintendo. Stop shilling you drone spastic.
Yes, they just asked for three games. They never said HOW the games would be made, just three exclusive games, hence why the Olympic Winter games counted as one of them. The ball was in Sega's court and Lost World was the result.
>Look at faggot and READ, Generations was rewritten for Lost World, and if they could use Colors, they wanted to use the most recent tool available, Colors was a 5 year old game at the time of Lost World.
Again, nobody told them to make Lost World the way they did. They could have made a boost game and instead they made Lost World. And they apprently felt confident enough to scrape their current engine and not make backups. If Sega made a boost game or made a backup of the Generations engine, they wouldn't have needed to use Lost World's crippled engine.
>That was done by Dimps.
And the story goes that Dimps was barred from using the OG engine for whatever reason and tried to rebuild the game on the Sonic Advance engine.
And we all know how that turned out.

info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(2006_game)/Development

>"The reason why we probably ended up with what we see today, involves a lot of reasons. One is that we did want to launch the title around Christmas, and we had the PS3 launch coming up, but we had to develop for Microsoft's 360 at the same time and the team had an awful lot of pressure on them. It was very hard for the team to try and see how we were going to come out with both versions together with just the one team. It was a big challenge."

There, have fun, retard

>A tech demo is being compared to finished, but flawed games
>He say "all of PS3" Sonic games are inferior to Wii, when I point him wrong.
Oh and don't think I didn't notice you ignore how I explicitly stated HOW 06 became the broken game it is, fuck you nigger. Stop acting retarded on purpose to shill your shitty Nintendo before commenting my post.

Only because the fucking casuals count the comic characters. And even then that was flooded with OCs by Ken Penders.

>16 euros
30 us dollars i-is pretty cheap t-too

Wisps are around because Colors was the last 3D game (other than Generations) with an across the board positive reception

>Uh, yes they did, they had a 3 Sonic exclusive deal they had with Nintendo
Okay?
How is that Nintendo asking them to make Lost World?
They had an exclusivity contract not a "we'll watch and force you to do what we want" contract. They just let them do whatever the fuck they wanted.

Come to think of it why did you even bring up console wars in the first place when it's literally irrelevant to the conversation?

>That was done by Dimps
It was made entirely by Sonic Team

That's purely because Colors wasn't Sonic 06 or "that Werehog thing wasn't in it, so now it's good", which is a damn shame. I mean it's not even a 3D game when there's more 2D sections in that game then there is classic Sonic in Generations.

Mario characters dont even talk and they have more personality. Peach sucks though shes boring

>>"The reason why we probably ended up with what we see today, involves a lot of reasons. One is that we did want to launch the title around Christmas, and we had the PS3 launch coming up, but we had to develop for Microsoft's 360 at the same time and the team had an awful lot of pressure on them. It was very hard for the team to try and see how we were going to come out with both versions together with just the one team. It was a big challenge."
None of this even mentions the Wii games. In fact in that link they said they decided against it because it would have taken too much time

>Come to think of it why did you even bring up console wars in the first place when it's literally irrelevant to the conversation?
user's trying to say that it's Nintendo's fault Forces turned out the way it did because Sega reused Lost World's engine and overwrote the Generations engine.

Still decent. Depending on how much you pay for the shipping.

Overall I paid 26€ with shipping costs Included.

>
Come to think of it why did you even bring up console wars in the first place when it's literally irrelevant to the conversation?
I posted this then (you) posted this , which had nothing to do with anything before that game until I mentioned "their shit hardware" which you got triggered by. If anything, you started it because you got offended over nothing, when I pointed out what happened. If the Wii U could handle PS3/Xbox tech without problem, Lost World would have just stayed as Generations 2 or something without question. It's not Sonic Team's fault they don't backup their old work, because it's a company standard to trash old builds of games even as far back as the 1990s. Only the most expensive of companies like Nintendo or Square can keep their builds for long periods of time, because they have the money to keep it in storage for years to come. SEGA, doesn't. At least, not when most of their attention as of late is moreso on Yakuza games and other arcade shit in Japan. In fact most of their practices on handing games are 30+ year old concepts, which is only a problem for Sonic because his gameplay style actively demands more time to be finished otherwise it stays unpolished.

It's why the more recent games get shorter and shorter each entity.

So basically you wanted to start a console war for to defend sonic team using Nintendo as a scape goat.

>It's not Sonic Team's fault they don't backup their old work
Of course it is, they're literally the developers of the game. Saying it isn't their fault is the equivalent of saying its the teacher's fault you lost your homework.

> If the Wii U could handle PS3/Xbox tech without problem, Lost World would have just stayed as Generations 2 or something without question.
Can't? I mean, probably not flawlessly (as the few multiplats the Wii U had can attest to varying degrees) but surely they can tweak it enough to run on the Wii U considering that 360/PS3 games have been on there.
> It's not Sonic Team's fault they don't backup their old work, because it's a company standard to trash old builds of games even as far back as the 1990s.
It most certainly is, since that's the sort of shit that haunts you, especially when you're changing gameplay styles. Surely they can keep the old engine somewhere long enough to decide if the new gameplay is a good idea. Or, you know, just modify the current engine to at least ATTEMPT to get the game running there rather than make a new one and simultaneously scrap the old one.
See, you're operating under the basis that Sonic Team/Sega makes smart when history has proven time and time again for that to not be the case

Everyone arguing and I literally just came to the thread to grab that cool chaos tee.

Morons who cares about those shitty games anyway. It's the ones they will release in the future that mater.

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Lost World is actualy on Steam now.
In heroes, after with he was presumably frozen.
Make sonic friends playable, but with gameplay "sonic with a gimmic". Tails can fly instead of homing attack, knuckles has glyde, punching and climbing, rouge has glyde, climbing and echolocation. Nearly all of them can curve into a ball and roll, but only sonic can spindash. If they can't be playable, don't reduce them to clapping while Sonic defeats the final boss. Lore retconned through this I heard on /sthg/ that they lost source code for it.
Literaly archive source code with comments and throw it onto two hard drives, one onsite, one offsite. Text weighs nothing. 7zip existed long before 2011.

>I posted this #
You forgot about this when you dropped Nintendo for absolutely no reason and got mad that sonic games on it were successful.

>as the few multiplats the Wii U had can attest to varying degrees
I wouldn't use wii u multiplats as a good example of them being unable to run games given most of the multiplats they had were purposely gimped.

Okay, let me tackle Street Fighter and Mario in turn (I've never played Mega Man).

Street Fighter is a fighting game, and all fighting games have big rosters (Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, etc.).

Mario is a better comparison to Sonic, since both series revolve around a titular character, and both series gained popularity as platformers.

The difference between Mario and Sonic, though, is that Mario introduced its characters gradually and organically. Donkey Kong was of course in the first Mario game ever (who wasn't even called Mario then). The other characters were introduced very gradually and organically. Yoshi first appeared in Super Mario World. Wario first appeared in Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins on Game Boy (I played the shit out of that game as a kid). Luigi first appeared in Mario Bros. etc.

Sonic followed this formula too at the beginning. Tails was introduced in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Knuckles was introduced in Sonic the Hedgehog 3. But then it all went to shit in later games. To be honest I think that Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are to blame for introducing too many characters and making the series cringe as fuck. I know those two games are liked and well-reviewed, but I think they're shit.

>I heard on /sthg/
Good lord. No wonder you're just a spewing shit.

Shame, I actually liked SMBZ. At least the first...shit, 3-4 parts? Whichever one had Super Metal Sonic I think. I havent watched anything from it since.

Mario has been voiced by the same dude since 1990. That's quite a bit longer than 2010.

>but surely they can tweak it enough to run on the Wii U considering that 360/PS3 games have been on there.
You asking this for Sonic Team, a dev team rushed every single Sonic game they make, to have enough time to do that, within the exclusivity timeframe?
Of course with more time they could have likely got something to work, likely with less content the HD games had, but something none the less, like 06 could have been a completed game with more time instead of a broken one with less. The sad truth is Sonic games can't be made in a years time anymore because 3D games are hard to make.

>If they removed the Guns and Vehicles and made it one linear route storywise it would have been a massive success
So basically just make it a normal Sonic game except you don't play as Sonic.

Nothing wrong with trying something different. It just didn't work out.

>7zip existed long before 2011.
Do Japan even know what this is?

Fair point. Therein-lies the real problem.
Heck, even the exclusivity deal itself, Sega seemed in a hurry to get out of that, since they counted the Olympic Games spinoff as one and forced Boom onto the Wii U for the third.
Though I have to wonder about the nature of Lost World's engine if that was the "quicker" solution...

Not him but they barely did anything different in the first place, it's just Heroes Shadow in Heroes Chaotix mission levels split into 3 objectives, with random guns you can pick up and hold b to win with.

I don't necessary agree with this one user that pops up in Sonic threads from time to time, but they should have just turned Shadow's series into a DMC ripoff. Hell they already tried GoW with Sonic so why not?

I honestly don't think it would have been a different type of game, at most it could have just been Sonic Colors 2 with parkour in it.

I honestly believe the idea to just change it was purely because they had the excuse to since native Generations engine couldn't work by default.

>WAH TOO MANY CHARACTERS DELET
Literally Sonic 4's marketing campaign, and look how much people like that game now
>WAH WHERE ARE THE CHARACTERS
They're back, you didn't like them cause they acted like they did in the games you liked.

You people are fucking stupid.

Attached: Sonic Forces bonus edition boxart.jpg (500x813, 82K)

>and look how much people like that game now
Maybe that's because the game itself was shit?

I really liked Sonic Riders and Sonid Riders Gravity
I think it was that classic Sonic edge plus the actual design of the courses
It was just sort of charming, I dunno

>since native Generations engine couldn't work by default.
Dude, it was made in Havok.

Didn't you wanna kill yourself or something?

Super Mecha Sonic was episode 6. There were two more episodes and a remake of episode 1 after that.

>Brings old characters back
>But you only play as Sonic, Sonic and Custom Character

>Literally Sonic 4's marketing campaign, and look how much people like that game now
>He thinks only Sonic being playable is why Sonic 4 is shit
Why do idoits like this always have to come into the thread actually like tough shit?

>They're back, you didn't like them cause they acted like they did in the games you liked.
??? What are you even saying?

Ok? That's just the basic "unreal/unity" dev kit for companies to make games with, but that doesn't meant the custom stuff they added to it like the HE1 would. That was why they had to change the gameplay and stage design, it was integrated to work with the lighting engine.

It's actually Gimped Sonic, botched classic Sonic, custom Sonic and dark Sonic.

>implying RMBM is close in quality to shadow the hedgehog

Attached: 1539682719325.gif (334x251, 1.21M)

Ok, you have a point. It's actually better than ShTH.

>but that doesn't meant the custom stuff they added to it like the HE1 would.
Which was also used in Lost World.

>That was why they had to
There was no "had to" about. They just changed it because they wanted to.

Whoever said it was a problem?
The difference is that Sonic Team are convinced that Sonic fans love to see all the different characters, so they are often all shoved down the player's throat all at once.

Well, that's not hard to do since it's reskinned Puyo Puyo

That's not even the worst part he's implying Sky Patrol is better than Sonic's metroidvania.

He had different VA's in games like Hotel Mario and Mario's Time Machine

I looked it up and you're right. Huh.
>The wiki has to make it clear the HE is not physics based related, like people keep getting confused with
kek.

HE2 was even used on the Switch version of Forces if I remember right.
Sonic Team basically just changed it for the sake of change more then anything else. I mean, if you can get this shit working on the hot mess known as the ps3 it can work on anything.

>But they should at least port Lost World to anything other than the Wii U and 3DS lol fucking Sega.
Lost World has been on PC for a few years now.

store.steampowered.com/app/329440/Sonic_Lost_World/

>I mean, if you can get this shit working on the hot mess known as the ps3 it can work on anything.
Keep in mind that Unleashed lagged like shit on the PS3, so doing that again for the Wii U wouldn't have been ideal.

>so doing that again for the Wii U wouldn't have been ideal.
Of course it would have. The wii u's simplicity was on par if not better than the xbox.

The wii u had a brokenly experimental Cell processor in it?

the problem is a lot of sonics characters are useless even in their initial appearance and aren't that much different from other characters

The only people who think Sonic's huge cast is a bad thing are dumbass boomers and soi drinking game journos who haven't actually, legitimately cared about Sonic at all since the late 90s.

Same goes for people who make those "hilarious" jokes about the fanbase when most of the autism went away in the early 2010s and several other fandoms have since dethroned it as being the worst. Also, remember that Sonic's fanbase is the only reason Mania exists.

Attached: sable2.png (275x275, 126K)

You could say the same for Sonic's Japanese VA, who has been voicing him since Adventure.

Are you asking or saying?
The thing is I don't think it would have been pperfectly portable since even the Xbox One port of Unleashed still had lag issues in that infamous water level.

Basically at worse, the gameplay might have been savable, but it's been proven the level design would have taken a big hit in scale to work on the Wii U. I mean, if no one else could port Unleashed or Gens to Wii U, how I can know if it can, indeed, work? I need proof, and I got none. That's all I'm saying, I can speak in "ifs". If it did they shouldn't have wrote over the previous engine.

Well, we can't get proof as easily as, say, a GBA version of Sonic 1.
I doubt Unleashed could have run on it, given how intensive the Hedgehog Engine was in that game, but Generations could probably work.

Can someone vouch to make it work then? I want to see how retarded Sonic Team was to claim they can't, unless it's purely time related reasons why they changed it. Like, what does Sonic Retro have to say about it since they get all the info about shit like this all the time.

>The thing is I don't think it would have been pperfectly portable
You know we're talking about the wii u right?

This actually, "Sonic's friends" are reviled because nine times out of ten they have a tendency to derail the core gameplay. Best case scenario it's just a harmless minigame. Worst case scenario we get the disasterpiece that was 06.

I dunno. I'm not too into the Retro Scene. The Wii U had several Multiplat games and Sonic Generations was released one year prior. We know the Wii can't run it which is why we got the 3DS version, but I'm not sure if anyone ever gauged if the Wii U could, or compared Lost World to Generations to see if it can. Then again, I don't browse Retro that heavily.

>he doesnt like sonic cd
God damn imagine having such pleb taste

But Sonic characters are all shit. Literally only autists like them

>square backs up their work
Literally the only reason FF8 hasn't been rereleased was because they lost the source code, and 7 and 9 had to be rebuilt nearly from scratch to rerelease it

Huh, really now? I honestly thought the only thing they legitimately lost was the source code to Kingdom Hearts 1
Has Nintendo had anything like this happen to them? If so then it really isn't that questionable for companies to lost course codes to games even if you can just upload them to a cloud.

I though it was the “Sonic and Eggman are the only characters allowed to exist” mentality

It's up
youtube.com/watch?v=hIo3Gi7Tn2A

This isn't even a problem due to the fact that no one remembers or even knows 2/3 of the Sonic characters.

Also there's the fact that Sega only uses the same 6 characters for every game.

Attached: 27545322_1737847679600634_3197211953016373678_n.jpg (500x282, 26K)

There are autists who go to that extreme, yes. Despite virtually no one believing Sonic 1 is the best game.

Well except for elitists, and people that selected only Sonic in Sonic 2 and 3K

And then there's Sonic CD.

Amy and Metal Sonic were both legitimate characters in CD.

But you can't play as them though. I thought it was about only Sonic is playable, with Eggman as the villain. At most Metal is just a minion, no different from badniks. Or Silver and Mecha Sonic from 2 and 3K.

But you said Eggman. When has Eggman ever been playable?

OK, besides Sonic R and other party games. Someone who only wants to acknowledge Sonic and Eggman has no interest in those anyways.

I have to agree with this

I didn't make that post user, I'm say that's likely why he said just Sonic and Eggman. Only playable Sonic, and Eggman as the villain. Why would he ever mean playable Eggman when his only time ever playable in a mainline game was SA2? If he's a classic elitist, then he is likely talking only playing Sonic vs Eggman story. Not that I agree, that's just the logic they are making here.

This

If user said "Sonic and Eggman are the only characters allowed to exist mentality" he's clearly not just talking about playable characters. So you adding Sonic CD when that introduced 2 more characters, it doesn't apply to that statement. Just admit you fucked up and stop acting defensively over this pointless argument.

>. Just admit you fucked up and stop acting defensively over this pointless argument.
user? Calm down. I didn't make that post about Sonic and Eggman, I'm someone else that was trying to explain what I thought he meant. It's not that big of the deal, what is his opinion going to change how Sonic is now? There has and never will be a Sonic only game because SEGA would rather
>Add the Werehog
>Add Wisps
>Add yet another Sonic
>Add more Wisps
>And lastly add yet another Sonic, as a custom character

Jesus, this site has so many spiteful assholes it's no wonder why you can't have discussion when you think everyone that doesn't say something you wanna hear make you seethe and project on bystanders. People that want no one but Sonic and Eggman is retarded. But I can't blame them feeling like that when SEGA can't make anything more than then either good for more than 3 games after they been introduced, or just fuck up the first time like Silver or technically Blaze thanks to 06. I'll always hate what SEGA did to Blaze.

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>Just admit you made a mistake
>WHOA CALM DOWN HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE WOULD YOU CALM DOWN HOLY JESUS
I could have guessed you'd opt to escalate instead of just swallow that bitter pill.

Attached: 1555919800658.jpg (540x540, 61K)

this

t. hasn't played a Sonic game since Dreamcast

You meant since Sonic Mania. Last time since Sonic Advance 3/Rush.

Everybody in Mania DOES play like Sonic though.

Attached: 1527176579702.png (1024x719, 439K)

Every one of those games are just filled with "alternate sonics" retard.

What are you say, that's the point to the other post. They play like Sonic, so it's good, and I agree with him.

The post you replied to said "they don't play like Sonic," when everyone in the OP image DOES play like Sonic. Yes, even Big the Cat thanks to Sonic Heroes.

Well, Heroes is the only one the entire gameplay felt like shit, but good point. Tbf that game was still better than shit like SA1/2, but only for the non Sonic/Shadow levels.