Former devs speak out about 'severe crunch' at Mortal Kombat studio

>overtime pay
>US of A
Surely you jest.

I am not American so. Poor bastards.

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>100 hours
Do americans really do this?

This is actually a good thing within a creative industry such as vidya. Being able to recycle dev teams allows a new wave of people to enter the industry and add new ideas to stale franchises.
I'm surprised people stay as long as they do within the industry as code/art monkeys rather than go on to create something that they are actually passionate about.

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what does crunch have to do with shitty designs and writing
those are made in the beginning of development

>Dev exploit their workers to the point of affecting their physical and mental health
Gamers sleep

>Dev removes tits on the designs
GAMERS... RISE UP!!!!!!!!!

Guessing here, but these are probably salaried employees who are exempt from over-time pay. Basically when you accept a salaried job you're accepting a flat rate of pay, say 40K a year or something, that isn't dependent on how many hours you work. In theory this is supposed to allow you the flexibility to cut out early without taking a hit to your pay, in practice what tends to happen is if you try to leave early on a Friday or something your boss gets really passive aggressive and in most cases you end up working extra and getting paid for 40hrs/week in spite of that.

It's a fucking racket lol.

I appreciate the hard work devs put into games, MK11 is great despite some flaws.
However it's a person's own fault if leaving their job is out of the question, maybe you should think about that before you get a highly demanding technical role.

if it's contract work, you'll usually get paid a fixed amount with a chance at a bonus when the work is done if the work turns out good. usually these kind of jobs get exploited for profit because they don't have the same rights as a normal salaried or hourly position.

These wistleblowers are 100% basedboys. Real man would never complain about too much work that pays as well as programmers

THIS. Fuck retards who cannot get indispensable positions

Just because the hours are 9am-2am doesn't mean that they're intensive hours. Game companies are trying to push a "homely" atmosphere so you can play some games or watch youtube in between.
None of these workers are actually giving their all.

>tfw to scared to post support for unions cause Yea Forums will shit on me cause you all hate unions

I beat story mode but Frost is still locked? What am I supposed to do?

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US, where every single little thing have multiple lobby groups except workers and then they complain that the midddle class is disappearing

Well done. I will still shit on you for implying unions do anything else than giving more money to incompetent retards

this

Go into any kitchen and complain about this to chefs.

Next you'll be crying about not getting tips or getting paid too little. Discuss that with chefs as well

Just quit.
Problem solved.

Any dumbass that wants to work as a slave for one of these large companies in the first place deserves to be shat on.

>ITS time to UNIONIZE!
I am glad you are fighting for the future of your wife's sons.

Unions are important and good, user.

So every game news site will talk to former employees about crunch periods and release it as a scoop? Journalists are always copying each other

>food analogy

>implying unions care about anything other than lining their own pockets

>Leads of studio start going mad with progressive "justice"
>Immediately discover the horrible shit they're doing
>The progressive justice is just to cover up the horrible shit they're doing
EVERY.FUCKING.TIME.

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Worse than that
>unionize
>H1Bs steal your job

They're the only thing stopping lower class workers from having train run on them by big companies, I don't understand what your argument is here, even if they are bad (they are not) they are less bad than the corporations that would be happy paying you five bucks an hour with no benefits.

the union isn't really on your side, but closer to it than your contractor is

Yes, corporations are your friends! What's best for them is what's best for you!

I thought people realized this: PC and Social Justice/Outrage culture is just a shield to keep the largest corporations on Earth from getting any grassroots criticism.
Captain Marvel was when the mask slipped and it became too obvious to ignore.

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>imagine being anti-union
Being a Burger is a mental illness.

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Pretty much. You can pretend to be a bleeding heart all you want, but why should a consumer give a shit about how a product is made? It's a fucking video game. They're not growing blood oranges with literal blood.

My salsried contract is for 37.5 hours a week (40 in office but including a half hour lunch break each day) and i regularly do 35 or less and "work from home" 2-3 days a week. When i do work weekends (if we agree its necessary) I get time and a half on all those weekend hours added to my pay that month.

I like being a test analyst

Problem with Unions: can't have them in country with zero immigration restraints and can import limitless amounts of third worlders who will work for food, not equal pay.

Liberals supporting "unions" is their attempt to replace you, not give you better working conditions. If you could kill the H1B program while also unionizing, only then could you get the results you want.

if you cant learn a skill that makes you more valuable than 5 bucks an hour then you deserve to be run over by corporations and unions.

>programming
>paying well

Lmao

>but why should a consumer give a shit about how a product is made

Because odds are good you will also, someday, be involved in the production of a product and I would think you would not want to be exploited in this way.

If you accept that job in the first place you deserve it. Also drones are a great for employers and consumers, let it be.

>IT's THOSE EVIL GAMERS AGAIN WHY DO THEY CARE ABOUT TITS ON VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS

Those same people:

>Dude I erp all the time in Overwatch the characters there are sooooo hot and it feels so relaxing
archive.fo/Lrpsd

you're not fooling anyone ,tranny.

>she can be a hero
Yeah, just like all the other super heroines flying around and being fucking badasses irl, right?

how the fuck can a programmer be on call what are they a surgeon or something

>That image
That's fucked up in eleven different ways at the minimum.
Do you want to know why many people are anti union? Unions in the US are pretty dog shit. Back in the day they were absolutely necessary. There were no laws protecting workers. Now? A union does not protect you. A union protects awful workers, decreasing your morale. A union takes your money, decreasing your morale, a union doesn't fight for higher wages for you. They're glorified mobs (MOST OF THEM)

The thing is, the bigger the union becomes the more anti-worker it becomes. At some point the people on top are no longer workers themselves, they get replaced by politicians and golf buddies of the employers.

QA is a whole industry you moron

The problem is that game "QA" is some retard running into walls for an hour to see if they glitch out of bounds.

>Unionize
Stop supporting the publisher system. Unions would still feed the middleman that the games industry should be in the process of separating from. What exactly are we losing by abandoning the publisher model, inflated budgets that can afford realistic horse scrotum?

I really cant be bothered to give a fuck that a bunch of codemonkies had to work some overtime.

somehow it's always the liberal devs exploiting their workers
the pro-communism devs are the ones exploiting the workers
really makes you think

>put trannies in your team
>listen to everything they say
>they still stab you in the back
based

If unions get implemented they will replace people not with newer ones, but will hire studios from korea or india to avoid to pay more, which will fuck the AAA industry. And I hope that happens

>implying they recycle people that actually have something to say on these matters
Code monkeys and the likes are just there to do what they're being told, not to input new ideas.

Yes, these devs only want the most quality games for you and don't only want a paycheck! Support them instead!

They should unionize, and more on the long term, form a workers' party
>inb4 fuck labor and fuck unions
Porkies and porkie apologists should be shot on sight.

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the problem isn't a lack of unions
it's about a lack of decent producers. most producers have zero qualification to keep a project on schedule

I fully support unionisation, as well as literally everything else that could even slightly hurt the AAA publishers.
Behead all shareholders.

We're anti-union because unions literally killed our automotive, agricultural, industrial, and mining industries.

cei.org/2013/07/29/empire-of-rust-how-the-uaw-killed-detroit

Our BIGGEST staples of the middle class were killed and replaced because they went and unionized. So all of that shit went to China, and what remained was too expensive and also too low-quality to compete with literal slave labor in other countries.

The solution is to remove communists and globalists from government so we can unionize without being replaced by slave labor.

If liberals supported H1B restrictions, none of that would happen

Apparently not being xenophobic is more important than the livelihoods of the citizens

get woke go broke

I'm confused, are you suggesting that wanting to be compensated by your employer for the work you do is selfish?

If there was a way to force them to keep making video games in this country, then that would happen.
All this would do is force games to be made in China like everything else in our servant society. There is no way to hold publishers and their shareholders to the fire to keep them from jettisoning the industry once the devs start to complain.

>have hundreds of employees working over 100 hours a week on your games
>games are still unbalanced messes

What did Nether Realms mean by this?

the means of production for vidya development is a PC, which presumably all video game developers already own personally.

So if they already own the means of production, how come they aren't in worker communes yet chapofags?

>We're anti-union because unions literally killed our automotive, agricultural, industrial, and mining industries.
>not free trade agreements
>not political corruption from big businesses
>fucking unions
At least you aren't completely retarded since you mostly accurately recognize the problem, but roping unions into this shit is full blown retarded and why I call you mentally ill.

>Because odds are good you will also, someday, be involved in the production of a product
Ironically enough, I've only ever worked tech/software jobs after flunking out of college, including some gamedev. One of those projects was something millions of people use every day. I still don't expect anybody to give a shit about how much time I spend on a keyboard, because who the fuck is it going to help? You think anybody, myself included, is going to be the guy some fatcat catches in a rough spot one day, changing his mind about how he treats his employees? You think enough of those sob stories is going to get the government to stop needing money from people like him and pass laws against it?

Worker drones are good thing, as long as you are smart enough to avoid being one why complain?

Ohh... I see...

>virtue signal about nazis and womens depictions
>literally work people to death
great times we live in

#learntocode

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>hire hundreds of brown people and women for diversity
>the few white and asian guys have to do all the work for hundreds of people

What the fuck do you think indie development is you absolute goon

Heh, yeah. The majority of people sure are working at better paying jobs. Hows your surgeon career going?

Good.
Trannies deserve this;

Have to admit that is an interesting image.

Crunch is good, it makes libs mad

>Dude political corruption is the cause and not literally the fact that they could easily pick up and move with little to no consequences
>Or hire tons of non-citizens to do the job at a fraction of the cost.
At least you recognized that free trade was also a problem, so I give you that.

People who work in vidya are the worst in CS.
This isn't the 90's anymore.

It sucks that you think it can't be better. Sorry man.

>being this much of a brainlet

Industry left America because the tendency of the rate of profit to fall makes corporations search the lowest possible wages and american labor was too strong to be forced to subsistance wages like in the Third World. And good riddance, the point of working is to make a living and not the other way around, dum dum. Study basic economics fucking retard.

What if I want to crunch willingly?

Tfw i really wanted to play MK11

but FUCK THE DEVS FUCK THE SJWS FUCK THE CLOWNWORLD

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Yep.
Picture being a bleeding heart socialist posting on Resetera, but also believing that these companies can do no wrong because they say the things politically that you like.

That's the modern world.

>mercenaries are better for an industry than giving people actual stability to focus on the games rather than worry if their life’s Gonna get fucked if they don’t play nice enough to warrant a contract extension
Fuck idiots like you honestly

>want to make games
>start working at a soulless huge company that literally relegates every part of the game to a different person, no creativity allowed

you chose this fate

>Rebecca Rothschild, former QA analyst

KIKES BTFO

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

>grow up playing Zelda instead of riding bikes
>have unrealistic ideas about what video game development entails
>deify figures like Shigeru Miyamoto as magicians who wave magic wands and create beloved classics
>decide this is what you want to do with your life, along with millions of other bugmen
>indebt yourself six figures to get all the necessary education and qualifications
>do unpaid intern work for years while living with your parents to get enough experience that your resume isn't used as toilet paper
>sell your soul to any prestigious developer like Blizzard with an at-will employment contract which is basically slavery; even when it's not crunchtime you 60 hour work weeks, unpaid overtime, sometimes no weekends, sometimes on call at home, liable to get paid off at a moment's notice with no severance or benefits
>can't even live in the city the developer is located, commute for an hour and a half every day, still live paycheck-to-paycheck in some city-adjacent area
>if you slack off, quit, or get laid off, you'll be replaced at the drop of a hat by a naive bugman scab just like you
>if you threaten to unionize you'll get fired and draconian Google artificial neural network algorithms will blacklist you from the industry, throttle your bandwidth on sites guilty of pro-union sentiment, slow down your porn video buffer speeds, and make your food delivery times take 5 minutes longer than everyone else
>gamers don't give a single turd of a shit about you, they just want to buy games
>middle class laborers don't sympathize with your workers' rights, you probably laugh at them when coal mines close
>politicians won't help you because lobbyists are on your bosses' side
>bUt At LeAsT i GeT tO mAkE gAmEs

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Wrong

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Unironically this, the Epic scandal revealed that maybe 20-30 people were holding up the brunt of the workload on Fortnite while everyone else had a net loss on overtime.

Affirmative action at work.

I dont get it, why stay 16h at work then?

hes not wrong. unions and high corporate taxes (which the US has one of the highest rates in the world) are the main reason companies fucked off overseas. you braindead retards will never admit this though and will continue waging your war against business with more taxes and unions

>Industry left America because the tendency of the rate of profit to fall makes corporations search the lowest possible wages and american labor was too strong to be forced to subsistance wages like in the Third World.
Right, because they had bargaining rights in the forms of unions.
> And good riddance, the point of working is to make a living and not the other way around, dum dum.
Good riddens, now they have no jobs.
That Detroit sure is a great place to live now, huh?

Pick up a history book you fucking retard. Or just click the article if you want a rundown on how it actually went down.

And these people also push for more of their replacements to be brought into the country

Stop all H1B visas and ban outsourcing. Force them to move offshore if they want to continue their exploitive business. If my choices are between a 100 hour work week for globohomo, or the building of a post-capitalist society, I'll gladly take the latter

>building of a post-capitalist society
??

If you don't like it, maybe don't do it and look for another job, I can't say this enough.
>inb4 hurr durr you never worked, or you are a child, blah blah blah
Fucking excuses. I'm 30+, I have a nice job and I got where I am because I didn't put up with this shit. Yes it was hard, yes it was worth it.
Deal with your own life instead of crying.

So it’s ok to excuse the government and big business for fucking people over because they didn’t get to make all the money thanks to unions.

Yup, that’s cool.

>coding for $12 an hr
>just sit there and take the 100 hr work weeks up the ass
might as well just work at mcdonald's, you stupid fucks. you'd probably be contributing more to society than your shitheap game

Oh, it could easily be better. Just pushing back a release date by a month would solve 90% of the issues with crunch.

Now, without me attaching my usual stank to this argument, I want you to tell me that you honestly believe that anybody who *can* make that decision ever will. Tell you that you actually think people who only ever think about money all day are going to be fine with waiting another month to get that money.

>Gamedev Union "strikes"
>Strikebreakers run in and break their legs

can't wait.

The point is they are working highly demanding roles and not seeing good pay to go with it.

Also I can tell you've never worked a professional job

Bring back Pinkerton Goon Squads. I wanna see a big burly fuckers smashing pink haired people.

>CEOs and shareholders gain millions each year for no work
Ok
>Industrial workers don't wanna live on starvation wages
reeeee fucking unions reeee

That's your brain on corporate semen

>which the US has one of the highest rates in the world
You do know the EFFECTIVE tax rate is absurdly low in America? You do know the NOMINAL tax rate is meaningless when you have access to all these loopholes and subsidies to the point where the richest companies have bloody NEGATIVE tax rate?

Having drones do drone work.
Why is this a problem?

Who is more likely to care about quality?
Devs, whose existence depend on gamers buying their shit, or publishers who depend on shareholders being satisfied with quarterly reports?

Who is more likely to push for relasing unfinished crap?
Devs, whose studio will get shitcanned after the rushed shit ineviteably fails? Or the corporation that will EA the studio, and still grab the sweet stock market shekels, as long as shareholders see "growth"?

Just fyi these "strike breakers" will all be Indian immigrants

I don't hate Unions, I hate the fact that globalization means that there is no way to have a Union and also have a bargaining force with the industry.

Literally any pushback at all results in the industry leaving. This happens with the automotive, mining, textile, manufacturing, and soon IT industry.

The problem with fucking communists is that they're all "FREE TRADE OPEN BORDERS H1Bs WELCOME PLEASE COME KEK MY WIFE MUHAMMAD" but literally none of them can explain how you're supposed to unionize in a country where they can literally just hire foreigners to do the job you're doing right now, legally, and pay them fractions of the cost even if you hadn't unionized.

You would have to be the dumbest fuckers on Earth to not see these two forces and think to yourself "Wow, fuck, this is completely incompatible. I guess I have to choose between having more brown people and having a good job and a comfy life with a family I can support with it."
Instead they just scream and moan that they want both.

Like this. Oh yeah sure you sure are against government and big business fucking people over.
Better not address any of the underlying causes because that's nationalistic and that's racist!!!!!

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Why should we trust their word?

What if they were just incompetent and the moneybags didn't do anything wrong? What if all the moneybag did was provide funding and nothing else?

People like you is why we need a Cheka.

Exactly. Devs don't give a shit about our issues with the industry so why should we help them?

He's a natsoc.

>Better not address any of the underlying causes
You're literal cancer. The underlying cause is a culture and ideology prevalent throughout the West that exploitation of other human beings is fair and just

I work at a Union job. It's great. Make 20.50 an hour, overtime if I want it, almost limitless sicktime, 3 weeks vacation time, incredible insurance, etc. Easy as fuck job, too.

Keep sucking that corporate cock. If you actually worked in a union, you'd know it's good for you.

I just don't understand how anyone says anything like that. So long as we exist consciously, we will always have supply and demand.

just lower the wages, safety and increase the hours and thry will be back. If companies want china standart then theyll get them. will you join me user or complain about safety and wage like a stupid faggot

this aint right why would you be happy with your fellow mans suffering!

>exploitation of humans
>the west
This literally exists all over the world. In fact it's much worse all over the world.

wrong again faggot

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FATALITY

Hahahaha! You think these fat cats would allow some of the money to be pissed away on some lowly slaves? That's why salaries came into existence.

And now we get why gaems got all this SJW shit nowdays. Only faggots, trannies and niggers that cant get a decent job anywhere else would accept working in such conditions.

So Bangladesh is bad therefore your neighbor should be subjected to 80 hour weeks with no health insurance and mediocre pay because what exactly?

>The problem with fucking communists is that they're all "FREE TRADE OPEN BORDERS H1Bs WELCOME PLEASE COME KEK MY WIFE MUHAMMAD"
Imagine being this deluded. You need to unironically read Lenin.

>being an unironica boot licker

>bloody

Brits speaking about issues they know nothing about? Shocked I say.

>You're literal cancer. The underlying cause is a culture and ideology prevalent throughout the West that exploitation of other human beings is fair and just
>The West
You mean the human species? Last I checked 'The West' was actually one of the few places on Earth that was even attempting to make a change and treat all humans as equal.

Which is why they move to fucking shitholes where fishing for the dead bodies of workers who committed suicide from being overworked is a fucking industry that people make their living off of
bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11797410

You're literal cancer and the actual reason that they can keep getting away with this. People who rail on the West really just want us to drop all of our wonderful human rights laws and regulations that lets us not die by the age of 30 from asbestos.

Nah no thanks, If I wanted to live in China, I would probably move to China.

I could make some sick dosh fishing out of the river, though.

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Nice strawman. Your argument was defeated. You claimed this is only the prevalent in the west. You are wrong. Sit down, shut the fuck up, and enjoy your shitty lunch.

My employer outright mandates that all exempt employees work 40 hours a week at minimum. If you work less, then you have to pull the difference from your PTO.

>Dude you need to read the book of this person who directly caused a third of his population to die and another third of his population to starve for almost eighty years. He has some good stuff, bro.

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Yeah, totally. A real man just takes it in the ass and smiles, right?

publishers don't realize that if you make a good game, it will sell. they sit here and alter shit and force people to do what they think is successful instead of realizing that these aren't movies, they're video games. make a legit, no bullshit, actual video game that people want to play, and you have yourself a good selling game. its literally not hard to do.

Bangladesh is bad and therefore we should ban exporting industry to that country.
What's hard to understand?

NETHERREALM IS UNFAIR, ED BOON IS IN THERE, STANDING AT THE CONCESSION, PLOTTING HIS OPPRESSION!

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>tfw work in a factory for minimum wage where every worker is slowly being replaced by refugees and cheal poles

135% for night shift and 200% for weekend is nice tho. Never do normal shifts.

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I didnt say that. I'm counterprogramming your insipid nazi faggotry by pointing out that serious problems exist in your society at the ideological level and that you can't cop out and shitt the focus to le poopoo skin brown man.

So please answer my question. Things being bad in Bangladesh justifies the exploitation of your neighbors how?

>nazi faggotry
Did your script get corrupted with someone else's script?

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this thread needs more food analogy's ASAP

>The problem with fucking communists is that they're all "FREE TRADE OPEN BORDERS H1Bs WELCOME PLEASE COME KEK MY WIFE MUHAMMAD"

The USSR definitely didn't do that.

Sub-zero every pick

How is my cock this far down your throat?

Yeah, everybody knows that in the USSR one third of the population was dead, another third was in gulag, and the other third were gulag guards.

You're assuming that a significant portion of gamedevs care about their work. Most of them are normal white-collar slobs like the rest of the workforce. Yeah, there's always one or two people who are really enthusiastic about their job, but they ain't there for free faggot. Even if they were, they'd still be at the mercy of some fatcat who only thinks of money.

>He starts screaming about nazis and sucking cocks
Are you okay?

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I suggest thaty you and all of you anons Watch the original Rollerball movie from 1975

youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb6R32fivw
yes the director is named Jewson

that shit is starting to make sense today with liberal driven companies and governments killing more and more individual liberty.

>He doesn't know how unions work
Zoomers really are the worst.

He argues for the exploitation of humans, thus, I can argue with a good degree of truth that he lacks or has no empathy. A sure sign of being deep in the autism.

Ever noticed how many "high functioning" autists are attracted to authoritarian ideologies?

>The underlying cause is a culture and ideology prevalent throughout the West that exploitation of other human beings is fair and just
read Marx you fucking LIBERAL

THE GAME ISN'T AS GOOD AS MELEE

FUCK THESE NINTENDO EXECS WHO PUSH THESE SLAVES TO CREATE MEDIOCRITY

Well, you don't have to work for the big boss who fucks you in the ass.
Of course, 90% of those who complain about the inhumane conditions of the gaming industry couldn't survive on this same industriy on their own, but this doesn't seem very relevant to certain people who think they are entitled to work with games because it was always their dream.

Skimming through the article it only really mentions the past few Mortal Kombat games and not really anything about the development cycle of MK11. Now that establishes a pattern which likely they repeated but are we sure this was the case with MK11 as well?

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It just seems like I broke him.
>Claims the west is about abusing people
>Point out that this isn't just happening in the west and it's even worse around the world
>REE NAZI

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but muh Jax said in his ending that he made the whiteys woke

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wouldn't he mean 'severe krunch'?

why do dev cucks just themselves to be crunched? I mean yeah ok you really like video games, it's your hobby and you like the creative process and all.

But staying for years in a company that doesn't allow you proper working hours? Just go out into the wider industry and become a dev/programmer in some other company. Maybe you'll work on boring enterprise software and be a cog in a machine. So what. If the working hours are normal, then go and do some game dev in your free time as a hobby. You'd probably be working less hours in total than in a game dev company.

you cant fire union workers just for striking if that were the case then stop n' shop a week ago would have done just that. Does this weeb even have a fucking job?

I agree, lets get the unionization rolling and accelerate this shit.

Anybody defending this type of behavior for “new people new ideas” and “they chose this job” or “they don’t care about us so why should we care about them” should really be lined up and shot in the face.

This isn’t how you treat a human being in the work force. They joined for the passion and got the slave worked out of them, that just ain’t fucking right. The bosses of these companies deserve to be sued although it’ll never happen. You’d have to be one fucked up and deranged asshole to not be upset at this.

Where did you get that picture of my cat?

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As a professional dev, this sort of stuff is spot on. I'd laugh in the face of some PM if they told me to work until 2am.

No no Dave, I tell you how long a feature takes. Unless you're gonna code it yourself bud.

Zero chance I'd stay at a company that let's management fail that hard, that regularly.

>contractors struggled with low pay

Nigga go get a different fucking job.
I did contracted work exclusively for years. You know what, if you’re having a hard time and need to take something that second — whatever. But don’t linger and bitch about low pay. Just go get a different gig like every other dignified adult.

If everybody did this, nether realms would probably go “man we need to pay our contractors more because we’re having a hard time retaining anybody to get good work out of them”.

People are such fucking beta male crybabies these days. The job market is literally starving for talent. Stop being a stupid bitch and go take the oaybyou think you deserve.

Jesus

These games get away with it since SJWs will buy 20 or 100 copies each.
insideedition.com/man-watches-captain-marvel-116-times-order-break-world-record-52369?amp

Imagine dedicating so much time and energy while completely sacrificing any social life you have to produce a shitty Western fighting game everyone forgets in a week

>They joined for the passion
>REEE PAY ME MORE
Wait a second...

So you’re saying standard work hours and quality treatment to employees is too much to ask?

You usually pay 9.95 for a pizza. But you're hungrier than usual, so you pressure the shop into giving you another pizza for free since you're already paying them.

To add to this, I’m taking a shit so some of my post probably seems garbled

There need to be oversight at farms because over production of a specific produce over the years without switching out produce from time to time will weaken the soil, eventually killing all prospects of agriculture at that location.

It's not quite a food analogy, I know.

I am not sure who is arguing what now, but, for sure, success in any industry seems tied to how willing you are to exploit your fellow men, anywhere in the world.
What I mean is, we need to purge autists and psychopaths.

>The job market is literally starving for talent.
The raw stupidity of this statement. The game industry is brutal for contractors because of the collective structure of requirements. 3-5 years to even be considered for entry level full time. 8-10 for associate lead. 12-15 for full lead.

If you're working somewhere ad a contractor making 50/k a year and you've only 2 years experience? If you quit, you're unemployed for a year at least (unless you go right back into the same contractor role).

glassdoor.com/Salaries/software-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,17.htm
>6 figures is somehow not paying well

I worked as a programmer for a year actually and decided fuck that the extra money is not worth it.

No? That's basically it. Just because you're disabled doesn't mean people ought not hold management accountable for gross failures.

Nobody forced him to do a shitty job for years.

imagine being an economically illiterate yuropoor

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Hello pathetic first world citizen. Thanks to this evil companies I have money to post from my PC and to impress and fuck a lot of girls in my shithole. Send more big evil companies here, please. In return we send some subhumans to destroy your countries lol.

>tfw work in the restaurant industry as a bartender
>paycheck literally only covers taxes, benefits and 401k
>Make 30/hr from tips
>Never have to work more than 40 hours a week since boss' boss loses her shit anytime someone dares to enter overtime and almost make minimum wage

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It's a literal shitpost it is what it is.
If the industry is starved for talent, then why the incredibly stupid entry level requirements? Are you supposed to lie about your qualifications? Are all these job listings a trick so an employer can say that "there are no qualified workers around" and then subcontract or import southeast asian IT workers?

So then they didn't join for the passion?

One of those directly makes the game worse and the other is overwork.

You don't really need a specific reason to unionize, you should always do it no matter what.

your cat is famous

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>you should always pay a separate company no matter what
No thanks. Unions did nothing for my dad.

are you nonexempt?

Nice avatar, I didn't think a short sentence would literally shrink your brain like that.

This user knows wtf is up

US unions don't do anything because they don't have the power necessary for that. In other countries they literally set laws.

Yes they did.

Difference is a bar is just a bar. A tripleA video game has tens of millions poured into it over a few year period and they expect a 10x rate of return on that investment, so they don't give a fuck about paying overtime or overworking people.

Did. I also did contracted work for a while. There were periods where I had to take a gig with sub-par conditions just to have something inbetween gaps. Before I even took such gigs I already had a plan and intention in my mind that I will continue searching for something more lucrative.

It ensured I had ample time to find a better gig and wasn't desperate for another sub-par contract. Was always funny to see the surprised faces of the sub-par employers when I put in my notice. "B-b-b-but how could you, we treated you so well with your term-limited replaceable contract!". ayy lmao like we both didn't know I was doing mercenary work and the only reason you hired a contractor is because you expected to have an easy to fire pawn that you could squeeze some cheap extra work out of.

your dad was a cuck

>yes they did
Ah yes, that's why my father lost his job and had to go find a new one.
You realize we already have laws in place to protect workers right? The reason why Unions existed in the first place was because workers had no rights, to the point that they were literally dying on the job and the company would sue the family because the dead guy made a bloody mess in the machinery.

That's not entirely fair. US unions got the work week reduced from 7 days to 5. From 12 hour days to 8. They got increased pay for overtime.

Zoomers don't know how bad working conditions in America were before unions

Depends on where you live. Most of the unions in my area are fucking awful and just exist to hoover up a part of your paycheck in return for simply existing.

>This projection
Sorry about your family kid. I see daddy's influence rubbed off on you though lmao

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Wtf does him losing his job have to do with unions? You got ADD or something? Stay on topic.

Oh boo hoo american man, you have to work overtime for three months. Japanese workers work 15 hour, 7 days a week for year after year without any letup or vacation time, and you want to cry foul? Suck it up buttercup.

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it's not just zoomers. americans as a whole have been poisoned against the idea of unions via propaganda associating it with communism.

Yes, but the overtime rate on someone who bartends or serves tables is hilarious in the US.

I agree that unions have places where the industry are just meat grinders and have no real care due to lack of demand for their employees, but due to my burger knowledge of unions from propaganda, part of me feels like unions would theoretically favor seniority over performance, which would mean I'd not be flying through as many promotions as I have in the 3 years I've been a part of the industry over people who've been here 10 years longer than me. With benefits being great in it due to low supply, I don't see why I'd want that to go away.

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>If the industry is starved for talent, then why the incredibly stupid entry level requirements?

the job requirements for entry levels are stupid no matter which industry you are. user, is this your first time applying for a job? The requirements are literally a unicorn wish list, most companies are fine to get applicants that have maybe half of the requirements. There's literally nothing to be lost and 0 disadvantage to just sent out CVs and application to any job offer. The bold people win.

gotta hand it to american corporations, they've managed to make the american youth bite the hand that feeds them. i feel a little bad about people here gladly throwing away their rights and freedoms in some vague attempt to own.. nonexistent commies, i guess. but at the same time, i feel a little less bad because these people do kinda deserve the fate that awaits them. i just hope this same rhetoric doesn't spread to europe. maybe america will serve as a cautionary tale to the rest of the western world.

I'm saying you don't have to work for the boss who fucks you in the ass. If all the bosses in this industry want to fuck you ass, then have dignity and go get a job in another area.
If you don't know how to do anything and the only way to make money is by being fucked in the ass, then at least be able to adapt to this condition because it's basically what humans have been doing for at least 10,000 years: work hard on shitty jobs.

>Propaganda
Nigger, most of our experience with unions is along the following
>Work job
>Work with shitty workers that don't do good work or work at all
>They can't be fired because of the union without royally fucking up
>Your morale decreases as the union keeps siphoning pay from your paycheck

Oh well yeah that's WHY zoomers are so retarded. There has been a systemic campaign against unions , funded by the largest corporations (big fuckin surprise eh? Like that shouldn't be a dead give away) for the last century.

The fact that some kids can't see through it is mind boggling.

The two nukes were mercy

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Hope you get paid and you can hop off when you feel tired from it without the fear of losing your job.

japanese also have a word for dying from being overworked, as well as some of the highest suicide rates in the world. and you want to import the same culture rofl. keep clawing at those crabs trying to pull themselves out, i guess

no, its bad because they hire homos and activists rather than serious talent. thats why they need crunch and why they have dozens of useless idiots standing around "crunching"

>The bold people win
But what about

>propaganda associating it with communism
except you know unions in every country theyve existed in have had strong ties to communists

>be bartender
>employers fucks you on your hourly wage because "lol you'll get tips"
>indeed do get tips that make up your wage because of the americuck guilt about tipping
>get butthurt and have a tantrum when customers don't tip you what you consider to be "enough"
>don't notice that you should be angry at your employer instead for not simply paying a proper wage and reflecting that in higher food/drink prices

imagine that

well, either you endure the annoying parts of the union or you work without it and the whole thing collapses on your fucking head and you end up having to work 12 hour days for dogshit pay. either way, concessions have to be made.

>no births
>massive amounts of suicide
>everyone idolizes their time in school because it's the time before they work their life away
JP has its own problems.

Unions are corrupt garbage and try to conflate standards with industrys without them to justify their existence without directly showing how their actions results in better work environments.

>defending shitty corporate practices
Good goy

Imagine how good some video games would be without money

Japan is overpopulated, it has everything to gain from a reduced population. Including making corporations compete more for their labor resulting in working less hours.

>Well, just deal a leech siphoning your money and not providing you with anything in return while protecting people who make your life harder
WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO THIS?

Not really dude. The whole cautionary tale is that something can be OBVIOUSLY against your own self interest, but with enough propaganda / indoctrination enough people will be swayed that your support system will crumble. You think European humans are any different functionally? If Coke and Apple and Google decided to start hammering anti union rhetoric in Europe, it would take 50 years before the next generation abandoned them. There are just too many humans that are too stupid.

And this is the reason why you need to keep unions around. The day that they go away will be the day that all Americans will become mindless drones to all corporations. They are the reason why the middle class are a thing. Working in retail at Staples (no union) for almost two years made me realize how badly a company can fuck over so many people just in the blink of an eye. Going from that to an office that didn't have a corporate culture was a night and day difference and I felt that I didn't belong there at first and was ready to go back.

yeah as it turns out, communists were originally part of the ones that unfucked the american economy by campaigning for worker rights back in the early 20th century. i'm sure you dislike this as a concept, but it's actually true. note that i'm not advocating communism, even though you want to think i do, i'm merely stating a fact

>BRUTALITY!

>Most of our experiences are just . Unions just don't work.

You sound pathetic user. Look up the fucking 1902 coal strikes. That's what Unions do. Corporations just lie to you and tell you different.

Maybe they think that if they work really hard at some generic AAA that will only succeed because of 200 million invested in marketing, they might be able to impress someone and become the next Shigeru Miyamoto?

crippling your birth rates isn't a good way to cut down on your population. you'll just end up with tons of pensioners and no stable workforce, which is pretty bad if you use your brain for a second.

he's talking about the nominal requirements on paper, which again is not the real requirements that companies will be willing to accept.

If any company ever only excepted 15 years minimum for a project lead, they'd never get any kind of staff.

and then again, if you've got 15 years experience, why would you go be a project lead for a video game dev grinder company? Go be some enterprise software product owner, get a bigger stack of money with lower demands.

Works for me pretty well.

>show up to work
>do literally nothing all day
>everyone else involved in the projects Im in work their asses off to cover the fact I'm basically just dead weight
>can't do jack shit about it because Im unionized
>can't get fired because the projects Im a part of get finished on on time and done properly because of the people carrying my ass
>and if they don't, they get fired and I just get thrown somewhere else to be a burden on a different project because they can't fire me
>still get several weeks of vacations and sick days a year
Life is pretty fucking sweet.

Anyone else tired of all the bullshit "it was the suits faults!" excuses for games being shitty?

Cant be lazy or shitty devs. I mean, clearly THIS time it was the suits, but what about the other games? Was it the suits then?

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Good goyum. Work for me please

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why is everyone thowing a hissy fit about crunch time now when it's been happening for 25 years at least

It so easy to spot people who don't have a real job. How's your McJob working out?

europe is vastly different in terms of cultural values and such. basically everyone i know, and i'm guessing most europeans in general, simply can't wrap their head around how fucking shortsighted and greedy americans be, both the worker drones as well as the super rich. europeans are already much more miffed by corporations trying to fuck everything up (see EU vs Valve with Steam refunds). i'd wager american completely going corporate slavery on their population would only fuel this sentiment. the greatest hope i have for america right now is that they really do fuck their own shit up as soon as possible so everyone else can learn to avoid their situation

devs may be shitty but they're never lazy
and stop saying "suits", it makes you sound 12

Because entitled millennials

For real man. This is the way to deal with it. Take a shot job and use that shit job as leverage for better work l WHILE you’re employed. You don’t quit then start looking. That’s retarded

Absolutely. If not challenged, corporations WILL fuck you out of every dime AND hour of your life. Unions are the only way to fight back.

(Sure hope you weren't planning on the government protecting you. They're bought and paid for by the corps. You knew that though.... R-right?)

Kill yourself

god you weebs really are blinded by a rose tinted view of japan if your trying to lecture us with this rofl.

Because it's new faux thing to rage about and get twitter point and "So brave!" comments.

>communists were originally part of the ones that unfucked the american economy by campaigning for worker rights back in the early 20th century
FDR and TND extended the great depression you absolute moron

Because its Drumph's fascist america

well, either you endure the annoying parts of the union or you work without it and the whole thing collapses on your fucking head and you end up having to work 12 hour days for dogshit pay. either way, concessions have to be made.

i copy pasted my post, in case you didn't notice. you apparently didn't read it. why would you be anymore glad that some rich fucko gets to profit off you instead of a fellow worker? is it easier for your reptile brain to get upset when you see the person profiting from your work sit right next to you? what difference does it make?

would hate working with you but cant deny that you're based

I work in triple A development. Those numbers I gave were the ACTUAL numbers I've seen resumes tossed in the trash for not having.

because its the main point of discussion for this specific thread you silly heads! DUH!

>Why the fuck are wasting money on police?
>If everybody just stopped committing crimes, we wouldn't need them anymore

You must be American, only Americans can be this autistic.

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sentiment rejected by most historians, but propagated by most corporate lobbyists.

I'm sure this is how it happens, fellow white

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Triple A trash. I have more fun with indie point and click games.

MKXI is a very unfinished game. it lacks polish in most versions and the PC version is straight up fucked.
thats the sign of corporate meddling and excessive crunch.

back when video games were new it was mostly a bunch of actual computer types who were used to sitting indoors and doing nothing but fucking with their commodore 64s, now it's a bunch of starry eyed retards who think they'll be the next todd howard or miyazaki and not some unrecognizable drone on a credits screen

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You do realize that the management at most large game studios DO make up the laziest most incompetent employees, right?

Cooks make the "proper" wage my employers give, it's half of what I make on a bad week

I think I'll stick with the amount of money that customers tip that apparently according to you I don't think is enough, it's nice to work in a place that tolerates me throwing temper tantrums

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Yep. What you said was all correct. Thank you for proving my point.

>be American
>be proud that I'm *allowed* to get sick at some point during the year

I like how the American system essentially splits vacation days into freely take-able PTO and "have to find a justification" PTO in the form of sick days, like you can plan how many of those you might need in a year

>former
hey another fired incompetent employee "explaining" how all the mistakes he did weren't his fault.

Great analogy. *dab*

How do they expect to hire people with 5-10 years of experience when everyone gets burnt out and quits as soon as they can? How many people are there left in gamedev with ten years experience?

Ok but why did you make my favorite girl look like a shitty cosplay by an ugly bitch

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>back when video games were new it was mostly a bunch of actual computer types
they still are you delusional /g/tard

Unions are corporations you brainlet. Competition amongst the labor market is artificially reduced and only members who opt to pay union fees receive gain entry to that respective market. Only union leaders truly benefit the most from their existence

Maybe because people used to have families to provide and they made sacrifices to work hard even if they did not like what they did.
Today there are manchilds who think they have the "right" to work with their child's dream and when they realize that this is not working, they put the blame on a conspiracy involving bourgeois who wear hats and who want to profit from the infinite talent of the oppressed workers.

Based
Fuck the system
Fuck the wagies
Hustle all life

The suits have to make the budget and policies to attract and retain competent full-time staff. If not then the studio is fucked and every project is doomed for failure.

We already see that, every games studio you recognize for that well-known game they did is completely changed since all the staff that made those older titles have either retired, died, left the industry, or buried so deep inside the company no one knows what the fuck they're doing for the past couple of years. Current working and hiring conditions have changed dramatically since 2003 and those who already made it are getting the fuck out while they can and gullible smucks whom cant even describe pointers or references are making complicated and elaborate software that have the unearned description of "AAA videogames".

I like your attitude goyim

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My point was that if you're told a lie enough times, and shown fabricated "evidence", that the human brain will eventually accept it. It took the corporations 100 years to change our culture and they could do the same to Europe. I hope they don't. But I'm not sure how to avoid it.

Because still is unacceptable. Being part of the past doesn't excuse it now, by that logic you would be defending child labor.

they were actually planting bombs and killing people. but yeah crazy people back then would be apprehensive of unions

Holy shit you ignorant education-less retard. UNIONS HAD TO EXIST IN THE PAST BECAUSE LAWS WERE NOT IN PLACE TO PROTECT WORKERS. NOW THERE ARE AND ALL UNIONS DO IS PROTECT SHITTY WORKERS LIKE

>ITS time to UNIONIZE!
The video game industry is fucking massive right now. If you are half-decent at your job, there should be plenty of other opportunities our there- fucking quit and find a new job. That will make a much greater impact than unionizing.

If, on the other hand, the workers in question here are inefficient and bad at their job, maybe that's why they are taking so much time to complete their tasks. Or maybe they are just in the wrong industry and don't actually like what they do. Either way, I don't see how that's anyone's fault but their own.

let's not pretend that your sentiment isn't only shared by career politicians and state-funded schooling curriculums

Then it comes back to the point I made: why would a self-respecting senior dev want to apply to these companies to just through the requirement hoop? They either get a huge check for enduring the pain, which I can half-believe, or they're passionate idealists and just like their hobby but are masochists. Fine for them, they should've known better.

Terrible managers do have an effect on the game development and the ensuing crush. That cause is a refusal to ever delay a game when they overshoot their estimations, and never learn to properly plan out dev time.

>It took the corporations 100 years to change our culture and they could do the same to Europe. I hope they don't. But I'm not sure how to avoid it.

true, but american culture is more easily exploited that way, especially since boomers have been greedy and stupid as fuck. europeans will know it's coming now if it tries to rear its head. it could still definitely happen, but i'd wager it's much more unlikely to work.

We should kill all actual baby boomers

We've got... I dunno. A dozen here? Out of 100 devs?

Don't get me wrong, leads are drawn in with large pay checks. $200k/year range. And they usually have been at the same company for a long time. We rarely hire leads from outside the company.

The point is though, I've seen people with 8-9 years experience apply for lead roles and get immediately dismissed. My last team to hire a new lead got a guy that had been in windows kernal security for -25 years- before joining out team.

Best of fucking luck competing with that with you MS in Computer Science and 3 years experience!

Why do anyone of you want gamedevs treated better?
Fuck them. I want them treated like beasts of burden. They are treated too nicely.

>there should be plenty of other opportunities our there
there arent
good game industry jobs are very hard to find
most video game studios are doomed to failure even in the best of times

In the halo 3 documentary they spoke of crunch just being part of the industry. Almost as if they were under contract to release a game and they got paid bonuses if it was successful, it was just part of being a game developer. They actually spoke of it like it was an extremely stressful but great at the same time. Why is ask of this coming out now?

Why do I get the strange feeling that due to the abuse of internet memes, you don't actually know what a baby boomer is?

Corporations make more money than their bottom end worker in America and did long before the industry started shifting. They just wanted even more than they were making and when the workers told them no, they just moved the business to a third world. People born here who construct their business here have no loyalty to their homeland, or evne their fellow man, it's all about making more for them and giving everyone else less. There's no fair share, and if you're not born correctly to the right caste you get fucked. This is going to lead to an economic collapse eventually, unless they shit out automation and those man made virsues to kill the population.

devs don't work at 100% until they are near a deadline, it's literally proven. you can't remove crunch because devs make it happen no matter how you plan your milestones. Only people who get fired complain about it, because they don't like to be reminded to be under the average of the company.

It's not great and you don't get bonuses

>all this union bashing
>all these pro-capitalist “conservatives”
Stop. You’re not gonna magically stop playing games and get your life on track by bootlicking. You’ll just be the same old lazy gaymer shit who bootlicks.

You faggots are basically those incels-turned-trannies who fetishize being tradwives because they want someone to force them to be productive. Or like the stormnigger furfags whose degeneracy would have them gassed by the actual nazis, but they do the salute anyway because they think being a fad fascist absolves them from their Tumblr tier fetish.

At the end of the day, you’ll still be a freeloading drain on the society whose existence is is subsidized by the welfare state. No amount of rich worship will fix what you are. Stop being a bunch of degenerate niggers.

>Laws to protect workers
>OP posts an article with interviews about people that work 19 hour days, 7 days a week, and get fired for taking a half day on a Sunday for their birthday.

Sure user. Whatever you say.

BASED, especially with NTR devs.

UNIONIZE.NOW.

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The reason you're making more than the cooks is because of the cuck guilt culture for tipping in the US. In countries that don't ahve the guilt tipping culture, food prices are higher in restaurants (because they include the wages) but the wages as well, so no one gets pissy on the customer. Customers also know up front what they will need to expect to pay.

Hell I was in the US, food and drink prices in restaurants seemed the same and sometimes even higher than here in Europe. Which makes it all the more weird how restaurants can operate by having high food prices on menus + paying waiters 2$/hr. Where does all the money go to? It seemed like it mostly went to having huge XL restaurant buildings and an enormous staff size that didn't seem to be doing much. Like why would you need separate positions for taking/serving orders and cleaning table/refilling water? That's something a waiter could do on their own as well.

>The project isn't great, you don't get bonuses.

Ftfy

Because they get paid less than they did then to compensate for all the expendable workers. They're also forced to work more than they did back then. Also consider the main force behind halo 3 left for greener pastures because of the shit environment.

So you’re dyslexic.
Got it.

The pay for a lead is north of 200k and game programming IS more fun than like... OS kernal programming. Or working on compilers. Or whatever.

Doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't have to work 20 hour days, 7 days a week.

you wrote alot of words without saying anything

>84 on metacritic

Imagine being indoctrinated to the point of actually believing that a lower supply and more costly dev labor market will actually help the gaming industry

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Mang, any position that offers a $200k/year check can afford to jack up requirements to silly high levels and still get applicants. But then it's less of a thing of "well this is just normal" and more about "companies have overinflated requirements and thus offer overinflated carrots"

People have been falling prey to propaganda for literal centuries user. The human brain is too susceptible to impression from repeated,consistent lies. Europeans are not any more fortified against it than anyone else.

MK11 is not bad because it was rushed and incomplete (like SFV), it is a bad game that is complete and it is shit.
NRS just made very poor design choices all around and saw them through the end.

Just because you can't read anything longer than half a phrase doesn't mean that he didn't say anything.

I agree but only if you work on shitty games like MK so you can see where your employer's loyalty truly stands and you can get out while they hire Joe Schmoe to make the games even worse.

White yuros are less wrong, though.
"White" explicitly excludes slavs, hungarians and similar trash.

I'm only bashing unions for game developers.
Fuck game developers. Some extreme suffering should set them straight

CAPITALIST SHILLS OUT!

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Imagine being indoctrinated it the point of actually believing that higher wages MUST be offset by higher product costs. The corporate welfare state has taught you well.

It just amazes me that Ed Boon went from a person who shat all over the moralfags in the nineties to a good puppy dog of the puritan SJW crowd.

But that's the thing then that companies count on and how they keep getting eager people to exploit: fun topic + high wage = people willing to eat shit to apply for that position. See: working in "glamourous" jobs like Hollywood actor, journalist, "healing the world" by working in a non-profit etc.

I thought her design was a tragedy because of SJW agenda. Now I realize that, since she was one of the last ones designed, the team probably was too burnt out to make her likeable

I'm sure that's what caused their lead artist to cover up the women crying about how immature and degrading towards women the series was until he showed up.

Sorta. I was just responding to a guy who said that you can just quit and find another job.

This isn't the 1950s. Any dev, even a good dev, with less than 10+ years experience will be out of work for almost a year between jobs. That's something I was told getting into this industry.
>Always have a years salary saved up so that you can survive in between jobs.

The real trouble comes when those guys with 13 years of experience can't get lead offers, so they take associate lead positions. That means all the 8-9 year experience guys are edged out to jr full time positions. Meaning with 3-5 years you're still taking contract jobs because you have no other choice.

So people should just abandon what they trained for and get a job at McDonald's instead od expect fair treatment and pay?

Fucking crybabies, just go work in some corporation if you can't handle the crunch. I've worked at multiple AAA studios and crunch time is the norm everywhere across the industry. Either you accept it or you go somewhere else.

>thoroughly corrupt
>mindlessly avaricious
>routinely mismanages profitable franchises into pure dogshit
>teeming with deadweight employees that contribute nothing
No, it's not time for the AAA industry to UNIONIZE.

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Yes. And that's why people make unions, so that corporations that have the interest in fucking you over because they know you want to work in that industry, CANT just fuck you over to their hearts content.

nah, not really. 60-70% of game programmers don't know much about how computers actually operate beneath the game engine. the people who this don't apply to are the people who actually make the big bucks and are not going to be the ones fired when the unions roll in

>Any dev, even a good dev, with less than 10+ years experience will be out of work for almost a year between jobs.

Mhh not really. Game dev, perhaps. Since the gaming industry is a smaller sub-set of the wider industry. Dev in general? No way, devs with experience can easily find jobs with normal working conditions and a good wage. But yes, they need to be willing to work on boring software instead of the excitement of video games development.

actual cuckold

No shit. Everyone who isn't a dumb leftist knows how exploitative start ups, non profits and passion careers are.

I work a totally soulless boring job, but I get paid well and get treated very well by management because it is required to even have employees.

>higher wages MUST be offset by higher product costs
That's just one consequence brainlet. What happens to the significant portion labor market that refuses to pay union member fee's? How about when these potential employees get forced out of the market because monkeys like you think arbitrarily constructed wages magically fix crunch times?

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False flagging this hard jfc

>lower supply
That’s not how it works, you nignog amateur capitalist.

>claim to promote equality and diversity in their game

>in reality treat people like disposable trash

really makes you think

Overtime exists. It's an extra 50%.

Explain the increasingly huge gap between productivity and wages, then.
Accounting for inflation, wages now have less buying power than decades ago, too.

>cost of labor increases
>artificial barrier to entry from union fees
>not lowering labor supply
please enlighten me then, reddit intellectual

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Based. Get fired wagies.

>Dev
>On Yea Forums
Yes I'm talking about game devs user. Unfortunately the job experience doesn't really translate. I don't have any experience worked with like... .net framework, or node js. Or Ruby. Or SQL.

I know how to implement ECS architecture in c++. Or do platform / graphics work. A lot of non-game development doesn't use the tools game deving does and so your experience doesn't mean nearly as much.

every studio crunches hard now
its been a standard practice for years, mid way into the 360/PS3 generation

What do you gain by shitting on workers?

Why are there so many anons who don't realize that this news story is in Canada not USA?

>QA faggots crying about crunch time
Fuck, I hate those people so much. They are literal worthless disposable trash that do simplest possible job on earth yet they act like they are some hot shit and feel entitled to be treated like real devs. Anyone can be QA, it doesn't require any knowledge, education, experience.

Amusement.

If these San Fran retards are too stupid to organize and unionize beyond Twitter campaigns and multicultural fistbumps then they deserve to work 100 hour weeks, fuck em

>productivity
define productivity. Construction workers work harder physical labor than engineers, should they be paid more?
> wages now have less buying power than decades ago, too
Wrong.
>heymancenter.org/files/events/milanovic.pdf
Could you buy multiple giant televisions and smart phones for 30 USD decades ago?
>technology.org/2017/09/18/cell-phone-cost-comparison-timeline/
>ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-us-households-with-basic-electrical-appliances?time=1920..1989
>statista.com/statistics/710587/united-states-statista-survey-household-device-ownership/

fuck Ancom, give me the *real* shit.

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Well the capitalists get money of course. I have no idea what these /pol/ fags get by shitting on workers.

Everyone knows this.
In my city, there's a scandal every week with some leftie start up or non profit working someone to death or being exploitative with benefits.
Big banks and fortune 500 companies are ironically a pleasure to work for.

just like how america is no longer "real" capitalism now that shits going wrong

really gets your noggin joggin

It seems like there's a dichotomy within game dev careers. You're either a dev/designer/artist on an AAA title and work 100-hour weeks and drive yourself into a depressed stupor and become a trannie... or you're an indie dev/designer/artist that gets paid via Patreon and does maybe 10 minutes of work a week whilst never delivering a product and ALSO becoming a trannie anyway.

There is no in between.

I'm shitting on devs. Dont tell me you support game devs?

It's a way of life, you wouldn't understand.

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It's almost like capitalist don't actually give a shit about anything else than money.

...

Cool, but that's what you think. You think corporations will always fuck the worker. You think unions are the only way to fight it. You also, for some mysterious reason, think that the union will never corrupt when you gain enough power to start benefiting a few who know how to take advantage of the system.
Building your opinions based on common sense and things you consider self-evident sucks, you know?

lmao do you think vidya publishers are leftie. what a retard.

You shouldn't.

>60-70% of game programmers don't know much about how computers actually operate beneath the game engine
that's an interesting figure you pulled out your ass
game developers work at a lower level than your average programmer, and you need to know alot about how hardware works to get things to work well on consoles or video cards

I'm saying if you don't like the standard of living fucking quit or get to work.

Fortune 500 companies already learned the lesson that employee retention is valuable and benefits pay themselves back.

Only start ups and video game companies are that dumb.
But game developers should be treated like animals anyway so who cares

Suits

Why are americans so eternally extremely cucked by corporations?

You don't understand the fucking 3-4 months of doing absolutely nothing that gaming devs get when they finish a game retard.

Sitting at working on a computer all day is THAT stressful?

Also if devs unionize we'll get like 3 games a year and they'll all be $120 at the very least

Crunch time means working overtime without pay.

No, you're wrong, fortune 500 companies either have low job requirement meaning they can work retards to death, pay well and work the shit out of people, or are managerial positions where they get paid a lot to have a lot of responsibility.

>it's always the liberal devs
of cours eit is, poopsie

No, it's not. But the US set the standard for modern free markets and we live in objectively the wealthiest and most advanced period in human history

a literal century of rampant uncontrolled brainwashing via advertising and propaganda for lobbying corporations

The devs sure are which is why they should suffer

This. It's always the lowest unqualified workers who complain the loudest.

>it's a /pol/fags defend multibillion dollar jewish corporations episode again

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theres soul crushing capitalists and then there are women. dont give the capitalists a bad name by confusing the two

lol

No put a Z in it.

Because America is a coporatocracy

>muh band of brothers!
lol

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based and redpilled

Yet games increased from $50 to $60 with $100s of preorder bonuses and $1000s of microtransactions.
Surely it's the unions who are going to destroy our hobby!

The world would be a much better place if the goyim just accepted that they exist to slave away for God's chosen people.

>work as an undertaker for a family business
>literally 24/7 doing grueling, gruesome work
>16 hour days common

Shoulda went into compsci so i could whine about starting work at the early hours of fucking 10am

Most jobs that actually do something involve a good amount of stress but that is fine as long as the pay and benefits match. Fortune 500 always have incredibly good packages.

>its a seething game QA contractor gets butthurt when nobody wants to help him "fight da man" episode again.

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>they'll all be $120 at the very least

lol who told you this

if only you knew how little dev salaries come into the cost of a game

Thats because of corporate kikery
Imagine how bad all that would get if there were unions

So that justifies working them like slaves for the 2-3 years it takes to make the game?

I agree with you that game developers don't need near as much as they make and that's the root of our argument so I'm gonna bow out.

>test analyst
Get a real job faggot.

>working for my dads company master race
Fixed that for ya

25 hours a week with 13 weeks paid vacation a year master race

Not that user, but most game programmers aren't writing rendering code, they are doing gameplay and scripting.
You don't need to know the ins and outs of console hardware or video cards to do the latter.

This, why should people who make games have anything resembling a living wage?

male employer
>unemployment is high and workers are in demand. I can fire your ass at any time so be thankful you're here
female employer
>I just dont under why my workers dont want to work weekends and take pay cuts it's such an inconvenience!

at least male bosses arent blathering retards

I actually work for my local council

>get paid
>have to spend a few long nights at the office towards the end of development
>slaves
No lol

>Unionize

Fuck off socialist.

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This I fucking hate retarded liberals that bemoan how evil white people were for having slaves then describe their fucking amazing living conditions as slavery.

Male Employers are generally more forgiving, unless the worker is an utter liability.

lmaaooo

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Exactly what I was fucking thinking. How can a gamedev be "on-call"? It's not like their workload is going to suddenly change.

CRUNCH TIME? ???NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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Yet another case of America ruining something for everyone everywhere.

when dumbasses have a problem they dont know how to solve

>working over time for free is manly.

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>ITS time to UNIONIZE!
No, it's not.
Game development unlike well flour production is a very different animal that don't do well with this or even need this.
When the workers on a flour factory leaves, the machines are still there, so all you need to do is to get new people to operate the machines.
When game developers leave, THEY are the machine that make the game work, so you're left with just some IPs you can't actually handle and power seeping computers.
So when a game development studio is abusive, all you do is just leave and make your own.
It's how most of the game companies even exist right now.

Companies want the startup work ethic but without actually giving the staff anything. Some people take exception to that. Others don't because in their mind they're "free" and not a beaten down mutt

>dude who cares about educating yourself with primary sources, just read /pol/ infographs man

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Good point. They have to make it sound detrimental to the game or they know we don’t give a shit

>few nights
4 months straight from 9-10am to 2-3am
Where is the freedom in that?

Try actually working for one and having a big chunk of your check stolen with a constant promise of it getting better.

They're just fucking mafias.

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To me that's just an admission that you're a member of a co-dependent slave race who will always be fucked by the government/your company/the union/your shrew of a wife, and have accepted that life

>real men let their employers bend them over and fuck them in the ass FOR FREE
THE KEKARY IS REAL

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You cant quit your job as a slave

Real men aren't wagies in the first place

You can quit as a worker but you'll lose your home and food. Is that really a choice? No it's not

>hey bro were just going to dump you in the desert with no resources you are free!

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No, I form my opinions based on history and how things have worked before.

lol it's your choice you quit stop crying that you're jobless now

real men go live like hermits in the woods then die of a diarrhea

find another line of work. You don't HAVE to use your programming degree to make children's toys

>The requirements are literally a unicorn wish list, most companies are fine to get applicants that have maybe half of the requirements
They also do that to offer you lower salary when they hire you because you don't meet all their requirements.

>except the bosses, of course, who would leave after dinner
this angers me the most

the game is actually sick, you retards don't play fighting games anyway.

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Its amazing how some of you mock and laugh at the idea of unionization and praise the borderline slave work ethic these corporations enforce. Its like you guys forget how rushed and trashy the average modern game is and how much people bitch and laugh about it, this is that exact reason, right here. Crunch time is a retarded method to ensure a game meets a deadline by the bare mininum and sometimes not even that and then charge 60 bucks plus microtransactions from you. Do you enjoy paying for inferior products? supporting bare mininum results? Because that's exactly what you're doing when you buy this shit and defend these practices.

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You're right that gameplay programmers don't need to know low level computer functionality... But you're off on the ratios.

Our gameplay team is maybe 15 people. Our graphics engine dev team is about 18 people. Dev ops, build support, and platform work is probably another dozen people. Them you have project dependent generalists that have to do gameplay code, engine code, graphics, security AND build platforms. I was one of those for 2 years and it mad sucks because every month you're thrown into another part of the code base you've never seen before.

>at least male bosses arent blathering retards
He doesn't know

>buying video games
I think that's the issue here. The only criteria for shitposting on this hellsite is helping google improve their captcha service for free.

>expecting Yea Forumsermins to have a semblance of a brain in order to connect ones and twos together

Temps wanna work 4 hours a day and make 6 figures LuL

LOL just quit then

>the simple minded cannot comprehend satire

Member when VAs talked abiut unionizing and game companies laughed and started hiring no names?

>zoomer doesn't know how employment works.

Yup! You're 35, have 12 years experience as a game dev. Just fuckin' quit and find a new line of work. Go from 150k/yr to 28k/yr by getting a McDonalds job! Because we know rolling up to any real career at 35 with zero experience means you will never get hired for anything meaningful ever again.

Unions would make video games even worse. If you want to understand why you should study the philsophy behind things like captialism. The short answer is people won't bother doing a good job if they aren't incentivized to do so

>communists are for free trade
They are not though.

And why would anyone do that exactly?

The over arching problem is that people like that user are tools to the point that they think were it not for the pesky gov and unions that companys would just come back with all their lovely jobs for everyone.

Truth is its a race to the bottom and competing with LITERAL slave labor is laughable. Fuck, even China is losing jobs to more appealing slave labor countries like Vietnam and Pakistan. Would you accuse them of coddling their citizens?

Unions aren't perfect, but employees should be able to exercise rights somehow without worry of getting blackballed.

I'm glad they did. Fuck western VAs.

>LOL just quit then
The battle cry of the 16 year old living off his parents.

America has a bunch of people who are descendants from German immigrants who highest aspiration in life is to work themselves to death.

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Don't worry, I pirate western trash.

Isn't this the same excuse that bioware gave? "We spend half the development cycle doing nothing and fucking around in the office, then we have to shit out an entire game in half the time." They're mentally middleschool children

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>excludes slavs
But I'm whiter than you.

Yup and I love it enjoy that crunch wagie :)

>They're mentally middleschool children
most triple A management is. Crunch is 100% a failure to plan every single time.

No overtimepay in third world countries i'm afraid

Its what you chose, you knew the deal beforehand, don't bitch about it
>join the army
>surprised when you are sent to war

glad you're happy user :) I'd like to live off of my parents as well so enjoy it as much as you you can, we all die in the end.

A proper marxist would clamp down the gates.

Don't worry, when you get older and your parents kick your worthless ass out of the house at 25, you'll see what it's like to have to provide for yourself :^)

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Hey guys you know what game had a big crunch time because management had their head up their ass? ME: Andromeda. I hope you guys enjoy similar QUALITY games int he future.

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Best Newkomer

I’m convinced most people in this thread are jobless larpers

Would this make the sjw weaker or stronger

That's the fault of incompetent managers, not the staff lower down the line.
All of this is just retarded managers and execs burning through devs to compensate for how utterly useless they are at their jobs. They deserve no sympathy, and will probably end up creating overly powerful unions through sheer incompetence and inability to compromise

This sign will never not enrage me, what a fucking joke.

This makes a bit of sense though. When your employees start doing a shit job you need to put them in their place and make them realize they need to actually do their fucking jobs.

>Being this fucking retarded
That's pretty embarrassing dude.

Lmao if game devs legit make 150k a year then i dont want to hear any whining about having to work long hours for a month or two every 3 years

Unions benefits the few at the expense of most people. They're the exact opposite of important and good, user.

pro tip: they dont, or at least that sort of salary is only held for the highest rungs

>Lmao if game devs legit make 150k a year
They don't, what kind of tard do you have to be to think that.

the truth is it takes a lot of work to make a video game. unionized studios would just fail to ship because you could be lazy/drag the team down and not get fired. only real answer is revenue share so that at-least you get rewarded if the game is a hit, but publishers hate that

That's literally the opposite of how they work. They're the only reason the new deal ever happened.

If things have gotten to that point then management was probably doing a shit job anyway

unions fight for good working conditions and pay, how is that in any way not good for the majority.

>>REEEEE they made us work

Gee idk it was posited by the guy i replied to FUCKING R TARD

>I’m convinced most people in this thread are jobless larpers
I really hope they're larpers. Because without unions, the US working conditions would be early 1900s level of horribleness.

They benefit the few when you're a whipped little bitch who's doomed to be abused by anyone with greater status than you

>this is what americucks actually believe
i've never seen any country more brainwashed to hate their own self interests like you faggots.

overtime is a federal law in the us

Is this some HR hell?

You do realize that these game companies are located in areas where that's almost poverty levels, right?

>U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s latest definition of the “low” income level to qualify for certain affordable housing programs stands at $117,400 per year in San Francisco, Marin and San Mateo counties.

Unions only work in a homogeneous society.

I certainly will. Blatantly mismanaged shitshows can be enjoyed for free after all.

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The gig economy is trying desperately to bring that back.

Here's your deliveroo kitchen bro :^). All these app based companies need to die in a fire.

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Devs start at about 105/yr. After 5 years, they're generally up to ~150/yr.

>t. a professional triple A dev.

Except you nigger, programming is the only game discipline that can be replaced by third worlders. People in India and China are not encouraged to draw or be creative. They are not good at designing levels, composing music or tweaking damage values. They're scriptmonkeys at best.

That's what happens when women are allowed to be anything but nurses and preschool teachers

thats much higher than average

Remember that time all the dirt about Telltale and their work environment popped up before they went belly up?
>user remembered that

>programming is the only game discipline that can be replaced by third worlders
lol
most game companies outsource their art to "third worlders", not the programming

Stop electing democrats to run your cities

It's not something that either mainstream party in the US cares about, gentrification to the extreme. If Amazon didn't get fucked off from NY it would have become fucking impossible to live anywhere near it.

No, it's not.

Why do these stories keep coming out
If you don't like it get a new job

>muh coastal paradise

democrats are the ones trying to fix it

Eh I'd say exploitation has been in the culture far longer. Avoiding the obvious targets, it took the white middle class working shit conditions in the 1910s to start demanding changes and bringing up unions. In the grand scope "worker rights" is just a blip on our radar and rubs the capitalist pull the wrong way.

Boomers benefited from unions.
XGen inherited them and had no idea how to use them.
Retired boomers got their benefits and stopped giving a fuck.
Rich boomers worked to destroy them.
Milienals went for new industries where unions is just a foreign idea and has to compete on the global market.

Zoomers are either going to ask for gov to do everything or fucked. I just on't see them trying to start up unions.

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cuck