So is Atlus officially the king of JRPGs now? In roughly the past decade we've gotten

At this point Persona is so separated from SMT that they're basically two different series. It's like comparing Super Mario Bros. to Donkey Kong Country
Why would anyone want to remember etrian trannysey

Those games suck.
You can’t see your characters fight.

>Dark Spire
>SMT
Atlus didn't develop The Dark Spire, they only published it.

Good job on undermining your own argument.

Dumb frogposter.

>100m
Man Squaresoft really needed someone to tell them they were spending too much. That and the Spirits Within, whew laddy.
Back in the day I had never been exposed to FF7 marketing and they spent 100 million? Its nice to know.

They're gonna have to go multiplatform if they want to grow. Not a complaint from me. I have everything they put games out on. But it's in their best interest to be everywhere possible consumers are instead of just going after the same people that may eventually lose interest. P5S is a good first start. But if they really wanted to go wild with it they could've got a PC version and even an Xbox version.

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Persona isn't good. SQ has more than a few hiccups. Early MegaTen are literally Wizardry clones. Most MegaTen spin-offs are mediocre

Estupido rana triste

It's more accurate to say they're one of the only companies left making decent RPGs. Everyone else sucks at it.

FromSoft makes action games, though.
Yes, no is doing turn-based JRPGs half as good as Atlus.

> P5S is a good first start

>musou game nobody asked for
>is not even made by them, but by omega force
>good first start

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>port begging
Stupid Yusuke poster

>FromSoft makes action games, though.
Action games with more meaningful role-playing elements than what Atlus makes.

>P5S is a good start
I mean, it's a natural progression of gaiden games like Q and Q2 on 3DS.

Persona Q and Q2 are Etrian games. Your post makes absolutely no sense

I agree. Both are still extremely fun. And mega weebs would disagree because Dark Souls has no waifus.

Why did square lose their luster? Did merging with Enix ruin their streak? During the 90s, square was experiencing a golden age, making masterpiece after masterpiece. Chrono trigger, ff5,6,7, secret of Mana, secret of evermore, Chrono cross, chrono cross, live a live, what gives? What happened to the soul?

FF became big with pseudo exclusives. The PC ports of FF7, 8 and 9 were by Eidos or EA yeah? And nobody talked about those. When people talked about 7, 8 and 9 they talked about PS1. Of course you may disagree because we're almost 20 years in since Steam changed the PC landscape and SE makes all of its titles on all platforms. Another testament to this is when FFX and XII were exclusive for two generations and they still broke 6 million each. Those two had no PC ports.
Of course lets not forget FF4 and FF6 on Nintendo. Those didn't sell anywhere near FF7 and the latter games but were solid exclusives.
They took baby steps to get this big. I'm sure other companies can do it too, not just Atlus.
But Atlus is on a good position right now.

>Dark Souls has no waifus
*ahem*

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I really like strange journey but being stuck to one third of demon options cos of your alignment kinda suck

>Why did square lose their luster? Did merging with Enix ruin their streak? During the 90s, square was experiencing a golden age, making masterpiece after masterpiece. Chrono trigger, ff5,6,7, Chrono cross, tlivlive a live, what gives? What happened to the soul?

>simplistic menu-based affairs
>masterpieces

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Falcom is the best. They invented Jrpgs and still make the best ones.

>it’s a WRPGfag thread
Should’ve seen this coming. Question, if you hate JRPGs so much, why do you keep posting in threads full of them?

>persoyboys calling anyone trannies

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It's just like how Beach Boys and Velvet Underground fans keep going into Beatles threads on Yea Forums to remind people of how overrated the Beatles are. They have an inferiority complex, so Beatles, and JRPG fans for that matter, live in their head rent free.

Square gave us TWEWY 10 years ago. That's worth at least 4 good games.

Here's a question for you: if you think jrpgs are so great, why can't you come up with a single-counterargument and have to resort to personally attacking the poster?

What the fuck does Etrian Odyssey have to do with trannies? God I hate this meme

TWEWY was goddamn amazing. Still pissed about that countdown and how the Switch port fucked with the controls, though.

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atlus and falcom have been the kings of jrpgs for a while now. even trails of cold steel, which gets a lot of flak, is still better than most of what other studios are putting out these days.

Everything except P4/5 in the OP is also first person

Because you make these posts every goddamn time. It’s like JRPGs live inside your head rent free.

seething wrpg cuck

The whole reason p5 was so big was because it was exclusive. People pay special attention to them. Look at ni no Kuni 2. Announced exclusive and people talked about it all the time. A year before releasing they announced it for PC, and instantly people stopped caring. The game came out and died. No one even remembers its exists.

p5 is the ff6 of the series. critics love it, the series started making a name for itself outside of a small niche, but the sales figures aren't there to match it yet (ff6 only sold 3 million when it first came out on snes).
p6 will be the ff7 of the series.

>The whole reason p5 was so big was because it was exclusive. People pay special attention to them.
lolwut. Persona 5 barely sold 2 million copies.

Meanwhile, multiplatform rpgs like skyrim and diablo 3 sell 30 million copies.

Heck, even some niche pc rpgs outsold persona 5.

This, it's free advertising
Same for SMTV, both trailers were on Nintendo's youtube channel first and got way more views there compared to Atlus' one

I meant, you can't date them.

Oh man its like Atlus has its own FF and DQ at the same time. One for PS (Persona, against FF) and one for Nintendo (SMT, against DQ). They might actually end up murdering Square Enix in the future.

Square Enix is unironically still better

Square Enix is still a major contender for top spot what with Dragon Quest XI being an underrated masterpiece; Falcom is also a vyer for top 3 what with Ys VIII

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>comparing wrpg blizzard and Bethesda drone shit to jrpg
>others outsold it, but can't name one

What about Namco and Tales of nowadays?

Symphonia and Vesperia are masterpieces, surely they can back to form somehow.

>others outsold it, but can't name one
Not that guy but I'll admit to making that same mistake once before. It definitely makes the speaker look bad.

>comparing wrpg blizzard and Bethesda drone shit to jrpg
As opposed to what? Mobygames Persona 5 credits listing is far longer than Skyrim. Also P5 was in development for nearly a decade, which is longer than most triple-A RPGs.

>others outsold it, but can't name one

>wccftech.com/divinity-original-sin-2-85m-revenue-2017/

>Mobygames Persona 5 credits listing is far longer than Skyrim.
it shows. p5 is polished while skyrim - like all bethesda "games" - is a broken piece of shit that needs mods to be playable.

You are comparing drone shit. Just like rockstar, reddit fags will buy those company games regardless.

Okay, but now you're moving the goal posts. You seemed to be implying that the comparison was unfair because Skyrim was in a whole different league than Persona 5, when it's Persona 5 that had a larger team size and developpment time.

Also,

>P5, a game with loading screens literally every few seconds, even something as basic as entering combat takes 10+ seconds
>polished

>Mobygames Persona 5 credits listing is far longer than Skyrim.
God you keep saying this retarded bullshit as if it means anything. Half the people on there didn't spend a second working on P5, they are credited for past work in the franchise and references

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>it shows. p5 is polished
It's not exactly hard to make a polished game when your only interaction with the world consists of menu-based commands, and you have less interactivity than rpgs made in the 1980's. That's hardly worthy of praise.

Not that guy but yes, that is more polished than the broken messes that Bethesda games turn out to be.

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>God you keep saying this retarded bullshit as if it means anything. Half the people on there didn't spend a second working on P5, they are credited for past work in the franchise and references
I'm not referring to publisher duties and voice actors and CG animators and shit, I'm specifically referring to the core staff. Take a look for yourself:'

The top section "Bethesda Game Studio" is the core dev team
mobygames.com/game/windows/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/credits

The top section "Staff" is the core dev team
mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/persona-5/credits

>Persona 5 credits listing is far longer than Skyrim.
dumb nigger P5 was made by 70 people.SEVEN-FUCKING-TEE.
>During full production, this number expanded to 70: 15 planners, 15 programmers, and between 30 and 45 designers.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona_5#Development

>The game was developed by a team of roughly 100 people composed of new talent as well as of the series' veterans
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim#Development

Is Dark Spire accessible for a brain brainlet whose never dungeon crawled before?

>I'm not referring to publisher duties and voice actors and CG animators and shit
>list has exactly those things

Is that why I got this gamepro issue in the mail even though I didn't have a subscription? Well, it fucking worked because I bought ff7 and was obsessed with it for years.

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Try it and see

name a better turn based combat system than press turn

Yes, it is. FF has been shit since PS1 era, DQ games are conventional at fault, don't even going to talk about the whole mess Xenoblade franchise became.

it has a cool artstyle and amazing music but it is still very difficult. There is a lot of backtracking and trial and error.

Tales is overall a mediocre series that releases a good game once in a while.
Not touching that shit series if the next game plays like Zestiria/Berseria

>dumb nigger P5 was made by 70 people.SEVEN-FUCKING-TEE.
Then they are downplaying the team size.. Facts don't lie.

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>I'm not referring to publisher duties and voice actors and CG animators and shit
>list has exactly those things

If we include those things, than P5's credits listing is even bigger, so how does that help your argument?

>it longer so there more people!
Toddlers are less retarded than this
The list has people in multiple roles, and like I said, also people who didn't actually work on the game but are credited for their past work on the franchise
But yes, I'm sure the dev team are pretending to have less people than they did just to spite some pseud on a mongolian basket weaving forum

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Someone give me (you)s for fucks sake

>also people who didn't actually work on the game but are credited for their past work on the franchise
That's what the 'and special thanks' to section is, which isn't included. This list only includes CORE staff.

Why do you continue being in denial about this?

Kazuma Kaneko left Atlus in 2009 and yet he is listed right there, in fact he hasn't touched Persona as a series since the PS1. There are multiple examples of this but he is the most popular one

Why do you continue being in denial about this?

That's too hard for modern Atlusfags. They only want shitty easy games like shitsona 5

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fromsoft can't do hitboxes for shit.

>blocks your path

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>m-muh hitboxes
cope
it's very easy to spot people who haven't really played these games
if you've played these games long enough, you'll realise the hitboxes are actually pretty spot on
the dozen or so ancient webms you've seen floating around on Yea Forums doesn't attest to anything other than the fact that they are rare occurrences and glitches

t. thousands of hours across all soulsnorne games

>So is Atlus officially the king of JRPGs now?
Atlus killed off Career Soft so no, SMT is mediocre and their other games aren't that better, only Etrian qualifies as a good series and it's still so so in the dungeon crawler market outside of its admittedly good combat system.
Squenix on the other hand still has the SaGa series which despite beingstill in the low budget dungeon is still a notch above the rest of the market, not to mention Dragon Quest which, as much as you might not like what it does, still has a consistent level of quality few other franchises have.

>calling SMT mediocre while propping up Dragon Quest
Here’s your (You).

>Squenix on the other hand still has the SaGa series which despite beingstill in the low budget dungeon is still a notch above the rest of the market
Why exactly is the SaGa series a notch above the rest?

>Atlus killed off Career Soft so no
Didn't they just dissolve into Atlus themselves?

>Falcom
>tokyo xanadu
>sen 1-4
>ys celceta
lol nope

Bravely Default was better than anything atlus released ever and will release. The Last Story was better too. Gacha shit like ffbe is more enjoyable than gaytlus games so no.

>still has a consistent level of quality few other franchises have.
Man I hate this meme
SMT's lowest points are higher than DQ's average

u mad

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Early SMT are just Wizardry that are completely braindead . You can't actually say the stupid ass dungeons in if... are good

As a fan of both SMT and DQ I can agree with this. I'd still take DQ over Persona any day though

not at all

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>Butthurt SMTlet can't even read
>Why exactly is the SaGa series a notch above the rest?
Its mechanics, music, characters, narrative and replay value are outstanding, it's one of the very few franchises which isn't afraid to explore new design paradigms and go off the beaten path, all the while offering quality gameplay and freedom of progression.

Early DQ are just Ultima, and modern DQ is early DQ with better graphics

Nothing wrong with franchise consistently. DQXI is harder than most SMT games

SMT and EO are both better than SaGa, and DQ is garbage compared to all three

>Its mechanics, music, characters, narrative and replay value are outstanding, it's one of the very few franchises which isn't afraid to explore new design paradigms and go off the beaten path, all the while offering quality gameplay and freedom of progression.
Such as? Could you give some examples of what it does differently from DQ/FF/SMT?

How is RH?

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It’s pretty fun. Been playing the DS version for a few days now so I’m not sure if that sentiment still holds up for the 3DS version but it’s pretty good.

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Decent.
The remake unironically butchered the ending, and hard mode is just extra grind and tedium. Other than that it's good

I don't dislike Bravely Default, but I enjoyed Strange Journey more personally

Is there any big name studio that has produced a more worthwhile JRPG combat system than Epic Battle Fantasy 5?

>Epic Battle Fantasy 5
oh wow is that still going? didn't it used to be a series of Newgrounds flash games?

>It's not exactly hard to make a polished game
apparently it is, since todd hasn't been able to do it once in 25 years.

youtu.be/afC5IbjLnAE
I don't get it

unlike dragon quest, it's willing to experiment with new game mechanics.
unlike final fantasy, it rarely ever goes full retard in doing so.

They were the best. TitS is my all time favorite jrpg series, but CS is a far cry from what they were once.

>persona and SMT
>literal dating sim shit
>"king of JRPGs"

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA ATLUSFAGS ARE FUCKING PATHETIC

>SMT
>dating sim

>SMT and EO are both better than SaGa
Nah, EO has a decent combat system but it's the only thing that can compete, SMT is just just above average at its highest peaks and barely above FF at its average.
>Could you give some examples of what it does differently from DQ/FF/SMT?
Everything outside of being turn based.
Play the games.

>SMT
>dating sim

Maybe not a dating sim, but it's very much bottom of the barrel shonen tier anime stuff nowadays.

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Falcom and Gust are much better, but Atlus is also good. Although they've fucked up with P5.

I want them to make another isometric tactics game

One aberration that everybody agrees is the worst part of that game doesn't make the entire series a dating sim. But if SMT V keeps up with the waifubait like IVA did then you've definitely got a point.

>One aberration

>one

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Falcom dropped the ball with CS3 and 4, Gust doesn't even know what to do with Atelier games now that they are allergic to time limit, which was the only motivation behind optimizing your alchemy.

What does this have to do with anything?

Sen III is the second best RPG of the generation after Futari no Hakuoro, IV is also very good. Recent Atelier games are worse than Arland/Ayesha, but still better than most of Atlus games. And Blue Reflection was awesome.

Both series have better combat, and music too

>Both series have better combat
No, especially not SMT, and especially not post Press Turn SMT, let alone the Persona or Raidou games.
>and music too
Nope, but EO does have decent music.

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>SaGa
Shit series, in some cases games are outright unfinished
the old Metal Max games are better

Bravely has the best turn-based combat and Megaman Battle Network series does the mix of real-time and turn-based better than Final Fantasy does too
I'd rather just play Jagged Alliance 2 again than either of those things to be honest though

normies can't handle slightly hard games

Atlus provides some of my favorite dungeon crawling jrpgs and I prefer SMT to Pokemon but they definitely have lame ass stories and some shitty design choices.

Well if they port their persona games they would beat SE

>Such as? Could you give some examples of what it does differently from DQ/FF/SMT?

SMT's narrative is restricted in conflicting ideologies and DQ HAS to be about saving the world from evil. SaGa does neither. SaGa Frontier 1 gives you 8 different characters, among them being a girl that got framed for the murder of her boyfriend, someone who got superhero powers to get revenge for the death of his parents and a magician who's trying to surpass his brother.

Also, forget level ups and grinding. If you're the "just grind when the game is hard" player you're gonna be buttfucked into oblivion. Even SMT is "rumored" to be anti-grind but that's false since leveling up unlocks more fusions.

>forgetting about Etrian Odyssey
user...

They're the king of fleecing people with re-releases
>Persona 3 FES and Portable
>Persona 4 Golden
>Persona 5 Royal
>Catherine Fullbody
>Radiant Historia: Perfect Chronology
>SMT: Deep Strange Journey

>SMT's narrative is restricted in conflicting ideologies and DQ HAS to be about saving the world from evil. SaGa does neither. SaGa Frontier 1 gives you 8 different characters, among them being a girl that got framed for the murder of her boyfriend, someone who got superhero powers to get revenge for the death of his parents and a magician who's trying to surpass his brother.
So instead of an overarching narrative, it's a series of vignettes. How is this a positive?

>Also, forget level ups and grinding. If you're the "just grind when the game is hard" player you're gonna be buttfucked into oblivion.

>praising level scaling as a good thing

Are SaGa fans the most retarded and delusional fanbase in existence?

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Even fighting games moved on from doing re-releases but nope, Atlus will just make you pay.

Level scaling is good thing. It stops you from powerleveling

>Liking grinding your way through difficulty
I was wrong, enjoy your SMT.

>Are SaGa fans the most retarded and delusional fanbase in existence?
Not all SaGa games have scaling.

>Bravely has the best turn-based combat

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>I was wrong, enjoy your SMT.
Nice strawman you got there.

There are plenty of RPGs that prevent grinding, either by implementing a level cap or simply having a finite amount of XP in the world (monsters don't respawn), without having to resort to a shitty mechanic like level scaling.

Limiting the amount of ways players can experience the game is not a good thing. If you don't want to be over-leveled than just don't grind. Level-scaling only works well in open-world mmo's.

>implying there were any balls left to drop after cs 1 and 2

If Atlus can release P5R then Square can do Final Fantasy Versus XV

It's not fair bros I want Stella and Etro

>in some cases games are outright unfinished
>the old Metal Max games are better
SNES Metal Max 2 is notorious for being a poorly put together mess rushed out of the oven and you complain about other games being unfinished?
If you want to be a hipster parrot at least parrot the right things, and don't pretend just two entries in a 30 year old franchise you haven't even played amount to anything, I like MM as much as the average fan, but trying to put one franchise against the other when they share the same userbase is just pathetic.
>it's a series of vignettes
More like a series of original stories that are also intertwined with each other in a bigger picture that is depicting a somewhat realistic world that feels alive.
>How is this a positive?
How is this a negative?

BR also isn't level scaling, not just because there's no levels in SaGa, BR scales regardless of your gains, which is why it actually works.
Even in the few entries where BR just scales enemies instead of adding completely new ones you don't have retarded shit like TES giving bandits daedric armor.

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Not until they get a 96 & 97 on Metacritic like SquareSoft did

SaGa Frontier 1 is notorious for being a poorly put together mess rushed out of the oven and you complain about other games being unfinished?
If you want to be a hipster parrot at least parrot the right things, and don't pretend just two entries in a 30 year old franchise you haven't even played amount to anything. SaGa's a shit hipster franchise through and through, and no the half-dozen memesters on /vr/ barely even count as a userbase.

>Bravely has the best turn-based combat
Sure but it has nothing else going for it

Is dark spire good? I enjoyed the hell outta P4

>BR also isn't level scaling, not just because there's no levels in SaGa, BR scales regardless of your gains, which is why it actually works.
It's functionally the same thing, and it's just as stupid. Any system where you can get weaker by gaining levels is an inherently dumb system. There are plenty of RPGs that prevent grinding, either by implementing a level cap or simply having a finite amount of XP in the world (monsters don't respawn), without having to resort to a shitty mechanic like level scaling.

>How is this a negative?
It's neither a positive or a negative, it's just something neutral. I fail to see how it conveys a realistic world more than any rpg where npcs are shown to have lives outside the main characters. Again, why bring this up as something to boast about?

>So butthurt he replies to his own posts.
>With shameless no u on top of it all

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>not having grinding immediately means the game is good
huh?

I meant to say:
>Any system where you can get weaker by gaining in stats and skill is an inherently dumb system

>name a better combat system than a piss easy baby system that gives you free turns for doing the same thing every other system does
how about every other system?

>
BR also isn't level scaling, not just because there's no levels in SaGa, BR scales regardless of your gains, which is why it actually works.

>it's not level scaling
>even though it leads to the same thing

You're like one of those dumb Halo fans who insist it was totally old-school because it technically had regenerating shields instead of regenertaing health, even though it amounted to the same thing.

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How does a franchise this irrelevant have such autistic fans

>fans
>plural

How about you earn your next reply dumb shitposter? Name names or stay retarded.

>name a better turn based combat system than press turn
Press Turn is one of the stupidest systems ever conceived. Think about it, you're already being rewarded for targeting the enemy's weakness by making them take more damage, and (I think?) having a greater chance of landing the relevant status ailment (i.e. freezing an enemy that's weak to ice). The only thing the Press Turn system does is artificially elevate one strategy above all others, by rewarding you even further with free turns/free attacks, making all other strategies inferior by default. It's a complete no-brainer to exploit it, with no downsides or risks, so why wouldn't you? The result is that it ends up greatly reducing combat depth. I don't know what it says about the people at Atlus that they thought anyone needed such strong incentive to do something as straightforward as 'hit the weak spot of the bad guys'.

It's literally the turn-based system designed for brainlets to make them feel badass for hitting a weakness and showering them in reward.

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Bravely is literally the 'spam normal attack and heal sometimes' meme, only you get to do it 4 times at once (more if you buy microtransactions!)

Bravely is pretty blatantly only for people who liked FF5 and want a system like that but on crack
which is a hell of a niche, and if you're not part of it then it most likely does nothing for you

Why don't you tell me why a system that gives you free turns is better than one that doesn't? The only retards here are people who think SMT is hard, let alone good.

So name a better system retard. All you just did was outline how it works. You didn't even explain why it is you dislike it how can you be this blind?

>PLEASE NAME ANOTEHR GAME SO I CAN SHIT ON IT BECAUSE I CAN'T ACTUALLY DEFEND SMT
lol brainlet

Because I don't have to. I can call you out for being a shitposter and leave it at that. Enjoy the rest of your day baiting for replies mogoloid.

>Bravely is literally the 'spam normal attack and heal sometimes' meme
Nah
it's whole appeal is the autistic level of customization and control it allows

>So name a better system retard.
Pretty much any turn-based system that allows for a modicum of dynamic situations and doesn't reply on a contrived system like Press Turns is better. Wizardry - either classic or the Dark Savant Trilogy, X-COM (the original), D&D, Divinity: original Sin, etc.

There's no accusation to defend against moron. Are you actually this dumb?

Don't argue with sagafags, they're more of a cult than an actual fanbase since they enjoy the concept of the games rather than actually playing video games. They will worship every game mechanic present in the series even if it's casual as fuck and detracts from the experience. There's a reason saga has both a mobage and a browser game.

>it's whole appeal is the autistic level of customization and control it allows
What customization? Bravely default doesn't even have a fraction of the spell variety in other rpgs.

It doesn't limit anything.

The guy clearly explained how it pigeon holes all strategy into doing one thing and it is simple and boring. Once again the only retard here is the SMT fanboy

>pick one job that has up to 10 skills
>then get one ability from another job
>>autistic level of customisation

>It's functionally the same thing
>Game with no levels and independent scaling is functionally the same as a game with levels and level tied scaling
You're terminally retarded.
>Any system where you can get weaker by gaining levels is an inherently dumb system
But you don't get weaker by gaining stats in SaGa games, you get weaker by NOT gaining stats, which is precisely what BR is about, you get punished for playing like a retard, just like you do.
>There are plenty of RPGs that prevent grinding
There aren't really, level cap means nothing since it's just a general calibration and finite EXP. also means nothing because again, the game is calibrated for that, Valkyrie Profile has finite EXP. and you can still grind.
SaGa games don't stop grinding either, they just make it more technical and rewarding.
>I fail to see how it conveys a realistic world more than any rpg where npcs are shown to have lives outside the main characters.
Because those NPCs are just that, NPCs, not fully fledged characters you can play as and see and experience their stories first hand, and see the worlds and events from different points of view, not to mention see all the possible event variations depending on your choices.

When the games also try something a bit more original and less tired than "a bunch of horny teenagers save the world", I guess it's a pretty good thing.
No need to post your ID photo user, I know you're too stupid to understand the difference between battle rank and actual level scaling but all this attention whoring is pretty sad.

>Wizardry - either classic or the Dark Savant Trilogy, X-COM (the original), D&D, Divinity: original Sin, etc.
You are in the wrong thread. We're talking about JRPGS. Good effort but you can stop now.

>and (I think?) having a greater chance of landing the relevant status ailment (i.e. freezing an enemy that's weak to ice).
Shock and freeze work on %changes. It doesn't need to be tied to a weakness

>You are in the wrong thread. We're talking about JRPGS. Good effort but you can stop now.
And? Pretty much every thing people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, DQ and SMT was copied from western rpgs: the party-based combat system right down to specific spells and classes/jobs, the overworld, even the tradition of getting an airship, heck, even specific game mechanics like alignment and demon negotiation in SMT.

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ATLUS GAMES SUCK DICK AND ONLY APPEAL TO IRONIC WEEABOOS

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What's wrong with SJ aside from alignments restricting your choice of demons? Yea Forums usually praises the hell out of that game but now it's apparently the worst shit ever?

I think in devil survivor a resistance makes you less likely to get stunned

>The guy clearly explained how it pigeon holes all strategy into doing one thing and it is simple and boring.
Just because "that guy" said so that doesn't make it true. In fact plenty of fights have no weaknesses to exploit and you literally cannot do the same thing. You also need to choose between exploiting weaknesses and generally having stronger party members.
Give SMT a try before trying to argue against it next time faggot.

>demon negotiation in SMT.
Megami Tensei did this before any other game. I don't think there are any WRPGs at all that have this

Brainlet-Kun, how are you doing?
I know you're too dumb to play some simple console RPGs but you better brush up your shitposting since the browser game announced TOS one month ago.
If you want to push non arguments again at least try to do that right.

you're mom sucks dick

Press Turn is good because it makes combat dynamic & dangerous. Also exploiting weaknesses is usually tied into spells, meaning you're draining MP instead of conserving it. It's better than other combat systems because it avoids the problem of slogging through lower-level enemies that other combat systems have. Taking your enemy off-balance is a good concept that is under-used in JRPG combat. Also, high-level enemies and bosses tend to have no weaknesses so you can't cheese them. AND Press Turn makes stat boosts/reductions actually viable instead of fluff that wastes menu space. So in closing, fuck you

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You are so predictable. Why not go ahead and post your whole folder of pointless comparisons I swear I'll reply to every single one.

>Just because "that guy" said so that doesn't make it true.
It is true.
>In fact plenty of fights have no weaknesses to exploit and you literally cannot do the same thing
wow, so now it becomes basic attack and heal. Amazing.
>Give SMT a try
I played DDS, SMT4, 4A, Persona 3, Persona 4, Raidou 1 and Nocturne. Only ones I bothered to finish were 4A and Persona 4. The series is shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Oh wait I finished DDS as well. lol colored balls final boss. What a joke.

I haven't played one of the Press Turn SMTs but I thought enemies could do it to the player too? Maybe I'm wrong

They can

You’re forgetting
Catherine
Persona 3 FES
Persona 3 Portable
Etrian Odyssey 3, 4, and 5
Strange Journey Redux
Persona 4 Golden
Persona 1 and 2 PSP remakes
Persona 4 Dancing
Persona 4 Arena and Ultimax
Persona Q
Persona Q2
Persona 3 Dancing
Persona 5 Dancing
And now Persona 5S
It has a lot of old fans from Persona 1 and 2 and 3 going back to the 90s

>read the guide or it's unwinnable: the video game
Atlus game design isn't that good.

Atlus doesn't make SaGa boyo

Is it wrong for me to think that SMT games should have a little something extra to break up the monotony of dungeon crawling? Persona has the social sim aspect that eats up a good half of each game from 3 and up and makes the whole gameplay experience feel quite diverse because you're pretty much juggling two different genres of games at once.
I've been enjoying the SMT games but they haven't quite hooked me like Persona has.
This is more than likely just a problem with me and not the game because I'm autistic and always need some sort of reward at the end of the tunnel to keep me going.

yeah, persona
>*buys pokemon red, blue and yellow*
fans
>*buys oracle of ages and oracle of seasons*
are
>*buys fire emblem fates: birthright and conquest*
such
>*buys yo-kai watch 2: bony spirits, fleshy souls, and psychic specters*
suckers!

In a regular jrpg you fight strong enemies at the end of the game, if you don't go out of your way to grind each battle will be a challenge.
In the Romancing SaGa games you fight worthless beginner-tier enemies that pose no challenge even at the end of the game.
Why is the latter preferable?

>Megami Tensei did this before any other game. I don't think there are any WRPGs at all that have this
Megami Tensei came out in 1987. Systems that let you negotiate/bribe monsters were common in wrpgs, such as Tunnels of Doom (1982) and Might and Magic 1 (1986).

It's quite obvious where the developers of SMT took it from, considering every other mechanic of the SMT games is also derived from wrpgs.

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>Press Turn is good because it makes combat dynamic & dangerous
It only leads to the exact opposite, what the fuck are you talking about?
Press Turn bottlenecks you into spamming the same three tools in a battle design that is already piss poor, the only difference you have is that endgame content has so many resistances you'll go for a multihit crit build rather than elemental weaknesses, it's braindead as fuck.
SMT should have gone the Etrian way, having actual hard weaknesses and distinct attacks without the need of snowballing and degenerating in turn loops that are just spamming crits in order to spam more crits to maximize damage output.
As long as SMT keeps on pushing this garbage mechanic it will always be miles beyond Etrian and other JRPGs.

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>>*buys oracle of ages and oracle of seasons*
These are two very different games though. If you wanted to take a potshot at Capcom then there's how they released the Battle Network games (basically the same as the Pokemon model) and if you wanted to take a potshot at Nintendo's there the New Super Mario Bros sub-series being extremely fucking low-effort and rehashy in general.

>Why is the latter preferable?
A better question is why you're still this butthurt to push this lie.

Name a better JRPG fag. You haven't done that. Is it because you can't?

>Etrian Odyssey 3, 4, and 5
>the worst 3

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the scenario you describe literally only happens in early game, and it's basically a choice between using or conserving MP, which is not an insignificant choice. If you need to conserve MP you're not going to spam spells for every battle.

Also, enemies can Press Turn against you too, so it's not like 'yawn press x to win'. Battles can turn against you super quickly. Compare that to other battle systems where you slog through low-level battles and there's no chance of them defeating you so it becomes a total waste of time.

I tried looking but I can't find any reference of those mechanics in those games, post proof
The demon negotiation aspect is taken from the novel the game is based off. Considering Japan didn't even get the TI99 I consider your theory unlikely.

>You're terminally retarded.
Do you think SaGa is the only RPG that has no levels, you retard? It still operates on traditional RPG systems where character attributes are expressed in numerical scores, and the higher they are, the better. That's all thats needed for level scaling. Call it what you want, but the end result is the same thing: a system where becoming stronger can paradoxically result in you becoming weaker because the enemies in the world are increased in strength as well.

>There aren't really, level cap means nothing since it's just a general calibration and finite EXP. also means nothing because again, the game is calibrated for that
Calibrated for what? If a game has a level cap, grinding for XP is literally wasting your time, since after you'll hit the level cap, you will no longer gain xp on future encounters.

Secondly, most games with level caps also have enemies that either don't respawn or only rarely, such that's it very tedious to engage in grinding, if at all ossible.

Another approach is finite xp, such as only handing xp on completing objectives. That makes grinding completely impossible, since you can't gain xp from killing enemies or repeatedly doing the same things.

Both are much more organic and elegant approaching than level sca-, I'm sorry I mean battle rank scaling, you complete retard.

True. Even Square Enix started to fully embrace Western pc platform. I mean FF15 (despite people crying about it) is the fastest and one of the best selling game in the franchise. Fromsoft and Capcom have also had huuuge success on pc in the West. You'd kinda have to be crazy not to capitalize on that, especially since Western rpgs are basically dead and outside of established games such as Lol, CS;GO, Fortnite, Dota and Minecraft which are played a lot, other games Western devs put out usually just fizzle out quickly.

>ironic 1fag
wrong thread for this, you won't get replies

>Because those NPCs are just that, NPCs, not fully fledged characters you can play as and see and experience their stories first hand, and see the worlds and events from different points of view, not to mention see all the possible event variations depending on your choices.
But that's precisely what happens in normal RPGs. RPGs are PARTY-based, remember. You have multiple party members that typically have their own story arcs.

So I fail to see how SaGa breaks some new ground, especially considering how litte player agency and interactivity you typically have,

Kinda miss SE's diverse settings n themes
>medieval fantasy
>water world
>future scifi
>mix between the two
>disney

>I tried looking but I can't find any reference of those mechanics in those games, post proof
Here you go:

Again, every single mechanic of SMT is taken from western rpgs: the combat system, the weird spell names (from Wizardry specifically), the alignment system, etc.

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Is ok the enemies can also exploit the system and if they do it gonna hurt, besides press turn won't do shit against a boss that requires buffs and debuffs, and buff debuff nullification.

Buffs and debuffs are definitely more important in SMT at least for boss battles.

Has there ever been a jrpg with strategic combat and an engaging story? I've played a lot of games that are 'almost there' in one area but none that quite get it right, let alone both aspects at once.

There have been plenty. Most likely you're just baiting people into starting pointless discussions over what "strategic combat" and "engaging story" are in the first place and that's not worth anyone's time.

>There have been plenty.

>*crickets*
Yeah, really convincing.

man, i don't even know if there have been rpgs with strategic combat + engaging stories.

closest i can think of is D:OS maybe, but the story was only decent

I always found it funny that no one in Japan gives a shit about FF but love DQ and it's the opposite in the west.

The whole point of negotiations in megaten is recruiting and adding them to your party, WRPGs did not invent this, and I have yet to see one that contains it.
>the weird spell names (from Wizardry specifically)
But the spell names are different? Only similar one I found has Mahaman in Wizardry vs Mahama in megaten, and they have entirely different effects

Ys 8 was good, but that's the only good game they've made since the end of TitS. Modern Compile Heart makes better games than what Falcom shits out and labels Trails these days, and those games are universally bad.

Not trying to convince you m8. I already know that's impossible. Like I said it's not worth it.
Basically calling your post out as bait was the purpose of my reply.

I really don't see the appeal of DQ. Played 4 and 6, started 11 and have 15 hours in it but I can't bring myself to play it anymore. All DQ games feel the same, childish story, cliche, predictable, uninteresting characters.

I love Mothman!

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I play the SMT games for the hostile atmosphere so I think that something to break that up detracts from it. But I totally get where you're coming from. The social sim aspects of persona are cool but playing persona 3 after playing the Devil Survivor games makes me wish you could alter the plot with social links like in those games

>Do you think SaGa is the only RPG that has no levels, you retard?
It's one of the very few that do not, in fact have levels.
>That's all thats needed for level scaling.
Outside of the fact that again, it's not level scaling, because it doesn't scale with your gains.
>a system where becoming stronger can paradoxically result in you becoming weaker
You truly are a retard.
Let me spell it out for you very clearly this time so you don't have a chance to keep on melting what little remains of your brain:

In SaGa (like all RPGs) getting stronger means you have to GAIN STATS.
Unlike other RPGs though, getting stats in SaGa is dictated by:
>Your character history, e.g. what you do with those characters, not automatic stat sheets on level up
>The difference between your stat values, the enemy you're fighting and/or the Battle Rank value, low battle ranks don't make you gain much if anything, high battle ranks give you massive bonuses
>The game therefore pushes you to always fight the strongest things you can fight relative to your BR, which also encourages you to effectively fool the BR as a result, especially since BR floor and ceiling are a thing

So no, you don't get weaker by getting stronger, retard, because if you are getting STRONGER, as in actually getting stat growth, that means the BR will NEVER catch onto you, case in point games with massive BR bloat like LR can have enemies with a BR 180 floor be beaten comfortably at a neutral BR value of 80.

Your problem is that you AREN'T getting stronger, because you're a retard who doesn't know how to play the games and blame it on the game instead on your own chicken brain that can't understand the simple basic paradigm of SaGa games.
This is without going into the various methods of reassessing BR too in case you fuck up your growth, but you're too dumb even for this so I'll stop here to not humiliate you further than this.

>But the spell names are different?

megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Shin_Megami_Tensei_III:_Nocturne_
>Dia Heals HP moderately to a single ally.

tk421.net/wizardry/wiz15spells.shtml
>DIAL Heals 2 to 16 points of damage

Anyway, even if the spell names aren't exactly the same, the underlying system of using the same affixes and prefixes for similar spells is the same. Considering SMT also copied Wizardry's combat system, it's quite obvious where the inspiration came from.

>childish story
>uninteresting characters.
I agree with the rest but what I've noticed is that DQ games often have far more serious stories compared to other seemingly more mature games and the characters are pretty standard for videogames so not sure what you mean by unintereting.
My main gripse with the series is the post game. I've only finished 7 and 8 and in both it seems to be nothing but grinding with a couple new dungeons with recolored enemies.

>But that's precisely what happens in normal RPGs.
No it doesn't, most RPGs don't even have multiple definite MCs with their campaigns and content.
>You have multiple party members that typically have their own story arcs.
You do not understand, SaGa games have MAIN CHARACTERS with their own unique campaigns, characters and event variations of common world events.
What you see with one main character isn't necessarily going to be the same thing you'll see with another, even their relationships and dialogues with party members you had in one playthrough might very well be different on another, certain MCs are also unrecruitable and can only be played as main characters in their own campaign, certain MCs have different stories if they're recruited as party members by other MCs and so on.
>So I fail to see how SaGa breaks some new ground
Put your glasses on then, it's not hard, though I understand that actually playing games is anathema for Yea Forums.

For a while, yes, sad Persona is fucking casual garbage and their main focus now. I want SMTV, SMT1/2/If remakes and another game like Strange Journey.

They're the kings of waifu baiting.

He said made in the last decade

Well, this is personal preference and my impression, but the story in DQ games and FF games are pretty much incomparable. Now, you may dislike certain FF stories, but you can't deny they have a fair degree of depth. The same goes for characters. If you ask me know what is the story of DQ 4 and 6, I can't even remember a single thing, that's how little impact the story had on me.

>It's one of the very few that do not, in fact have levels.
It's incredible just how ignorant SaGa fans are.

Do you know what one of the principal inspiration for SaGa was? A little RPG called Dungeon Master. It had a learn-by-use system that FF2 and SaGa would adopt, where your stats and skills improved by repeatedly performing certain actions. Dungeon Master also had no levels.

Neither did Quest for Glory.

Neither did Vampire the Masquerade.

Neither did X-COM (while not an RPG, it did have RPG-style character growth for your units).

So not having levels is not all that uncommon. You would know this if you had any real experience playing RPGs, instead of just jerking off to how awesome the SaGa series.

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Persona is shit.
Strange Journey is essentially an inferior SMT and EO game.
On the whole though, you're probably right, Atlus is pretty much the best we got at the moment.

It is definitely personal preference you're right on that part. I personally tried ff7 and 10 and I didn't finish either of them. Dropped 7 somewhere after you get the airship(?) and 10 right before the final boss, not even sure why actually. Might go back to them in the future.

>not all that uncommon
>4 examples listed

And Betrayal at Krondor

And Deus Ex

And System Shock 2

Actually, the main influence behind SaGa games in terms of videogames specifically were explicitly roguelikes (Nethack in particular) and Ultima 4/5.
>So not having levels is not all that uncommon.
Oh yeah, three RPGs and one strategy game sure are a big number for an industry with thousands of games, WRPG-Kun, truly an extremely common design choice.

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Do you actually have a source for how battle rank is calculated?

DQ games are simple enough to be handheld games and handhelds are extremely popular in japan.
My belief is that small and compact things are really appealing to people in japan. They like the idea of things being fun-sized and easy to carry around. I think it's got something to do with the way they've all grown up. Tiny living spaces, streets and towns are very dense and together with no empty space anywhere, japanese cuisine typically has food in small portions, these people have all grown up with things being small.
They're like the opposite of americans with their "bigger is better" mentality. And each new FF game tries to be the biggest JRPG of the time.

Amazing. The new story content really fucks with the tone of the original plot though.

I love Ys, but i wouldnt really call it an rpg. I think its more of a action game

Nah, modern Ys are party-based JRPGs with far more weapons, armor and accessories that make the games easy as fuck. All the other games aside for Ys 1 can also be steamrolled by just leveling up.

cold steel as a whole is fucking garbage

>So no, you don't get weaker by getting stronger, retard
Meanwhile, in the real world:

gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/198537-saga-frontier/66984881
>Ok, so I am confused. As my last topic on monsters stated, I am at the very start of lute's game, trying to find monsters for Thunder to get skills from. I do my research, figure out where to go for a BR 1 monster... and get into a BR 5(!) battle right off the bat. Confused, I reset, tried again. Yup, same BR 5 monster. I try another spot, and I'm getting BR 3. At this point, I conclude I somehow am at BR 3, with some BR 5 battles in +2 zones like Bio research lab. Satisfied, I research AGAIN, find a spot to find a BR 3 monster to find...and promptly get into a BR 1 battle! How is this possible? Nothing I've read can explain to me how this is happening.

>I am so confused. I don't know how I'm going to use monsters effectively if I can't figure out to find the right monsters. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it!

Saga's system is just as stupid as Oblivion's level scaling.

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Is there a site which reports jrpg related news, upcoming releases, interviews, etc.?

Depends on the game since BR changes on different standards but the general mainline is the number of battles, games like RS2 have some "hidden" ways of calculating your battle rank too, in RS2' specific case you can ask one of your ministers for the number of fights you've triggered in a playthrough and derive a general position in the BR from that, or simply guessing it by the enemies you encounter.
In RS2 BR is counted by number of battles triggered while in RS2 or Minstrel Song it's calculated by the amount of battles you explicitly won, in Scarlet Grace BR works on yet another standard since the game is composed entirely by setpiece, which each "new" setpieces giving you a higher BR score than a repeated setpiece.
As for the more in depth BR mechanics like possible stat scaling, gain bonuses etc. it's a lot more difficult since each game has its own calibration.

JP wikies are your best chance for that, though the western TLR wiki should have the cracked values for BR calculations and bonuses, some of the various in depth FAQs on Gamefaq also have a section dedicated to BR calculation, the Frontier's guide from Zaraktheus should be one of those iirc.

For games with ecology type BR like RS3 or Unlimited the question is a bit more complex since ecology works in a more distinct way, generally speaking, the more monsters of a certain family you fight the stronger they get, though you also have to consider the food pyramid in the way it changes your actual monster population, it's mostly there for immersion value though, it's not really what you would call a key mechanic or anything.

How nice of you to not post the answer to that, frogposter
>Basically, you start out on a battle rank based on the battle rank of your last completed game in your system data.

If your rank is 3, when you get in a normal rank battle, you'll go up against rank 3, rank 2, or rank 1; that is, current rank, rank -1, or rank -2. If the area is Rank +2, the battle will always be against your current rank + 2. Those battles in the Yorkland Swamp will always be Rank 5, for example.
So no, the only stupid thing in here is you, perhaps going back to Plebbit with the rest of your brainlet friends is a wise choice.

> Even SMT is "rumored" to be anti-grind but that's false since leveling up unlocks more fusions.
You are a contrarian retard. SMT is anti-grind (not grind proof, just grind resistant) due to how EXP works in the series, you can grind on fuckers way weaker than you to artificially inflate your levels, but it'll take way more time than it's worth it. You're supposed to constantly keep progressing and switching in and out demons as you do so, which goes against the usual concept of grinding around in one area/against one particular enemy pretty hard.

Dark Spire isnt Fatlus you retards

>Basically, you start out on a battle rank based on the battle rank of your last completed game in your system data.
And this is a good thing how exactly?

I mean, if even an autistic player like that OP, who was specifically following FAQs, is still completely caught offgurd by enemy br's, that speaks volumes about how bad the mechanic is.

>*buys oracle of ages and oracle of seasons*
>*buys fire emblem fates: birthright and conquest*
Ages and Seasons are two entirely different games. Birthright and Conquest aren't the same game either, and have very different core game designs even though they're still part of the same entry and series as a whole.

>due to how EXP works in the series
You do know that EXP scaling has been a thing since the 80's, do you?
SMT isn't any more "anti-grind" than a FF game outside of lacking specific EXP. piñatas.

>There's a reason saga has both a mobage and a browser game.
Lots of jrpgs do

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Not press turn combat and builds aren't as good

>There's a reason saga has both a mobage and a browser game.
A lot of series do, unfortunately. The rest of your post is pretty much correct though.

Strange Journey is their best game.

>implying Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons are the same game
>implying Birthright and Conquest are the same game

>And this is a good thing how exactly?
Are you dumb?
Oh wait, you're talking about a game you know nothing about so of course you are.
Higher starting BR is a good thing because you'll grow even faster, especially in Frontier's case since it's one of the easiest entries in the series.
This is without considering the fact that if that somehow rustles your jimmies THAT much you can also NOT import your NG+ data and start a clean playthrough.
>that speaks volumes about how bad the mechanic is.
Not really, it only speaks volumes about how retarded you are to not only try to talk shit about a game you never played and are too stupid to understand, but also believe you can get away with it.
Again, SaGa games aren't for brainlets, so your better stay out of them if something so simple is giving you conniptions

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>SaGa games aren't for brainlets

>this is what SaGa fans actually believe

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You're the living proof they aren't, especially when you're coping this hard.

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>due to how EXP works in the series, you can grind on fuckers way weaker than you to artificially inflate your levels, but it'll take way more time than it's worth it.
user, that's because you have 4 party members. In SMT you get 1/4 of the experience. Go solo and see how much exp you build

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OP here. I'm gonna admit, I've never even played an Atlus game. I just wanna farm (You)s because I'm a failure at life so things that give me a dopamine rush like my threads getting bumped become top priority over threads that have anything to do with my own interests.

okay, this is epic

>wrpg-kun and saga-kun battling it out
Oh shit

>What's wrong with SJ aside from alignments restricting your choice of demons?
Co-op is just a shit system as a whole, it was only really ever relevant in the earlygame, and Atlus knew this as they forced it to be relevant in the remake against that new endgame boss.
Outside of it, the law and chaos reps are weak characters even by series standards, and while the remake makes Deep Law/Chaos endings better and Neutral less blatantly the best option, it doesn't make up for the majority of the main plot.
Dungeon crawling is also pretty tedious, especially due to the absence of manual mapping or even just plain old ingame notes. The remake addresses some of this with apps, but it's very much a band-aid fix and one you have to wait for the game to give you as well.
Music is generally really weak as well, I can't remember shit about the dungeon themes and I've beaten the original and the remake a few times.

This isn't wrpg-kun, he's supporting his arguments instead of posting strawmen

>.t wrpg-kun
Isn't it funny how dragon's dogma is a better wrpg than any wrpg released in the west?

>Any of those arguments
>Supported
Granted that he evidently isn't WRPG-Kun he's just as much of a strawmanning, butthurt retard.

>Isn't it funny how dragon's dogma is a better wrpg than any wrpg released in the west?
How is dragon's dogma a wrpg?

it's not really a wrpg, but it is highly westernized. it does the fantasy arpg combat better than any bethesda game.

>it does the fantasy arpg combat better than any bethesda game.
That's not exactly a high bar to clear.

No, most people still don't respect the Persona series. It has failed to become appreciated among mainstream audiences

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King of Jrpg's my ass. All their games are low budget with gameplay that mostly consists of walls of text and picking 1 option out of 2.

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>All their games are low budget with gameplay that mostly consists of walls of text and picking 1 option out of 2.
Wrong. Persona is a tiny portion of megaten and even there it's nowhere near that bad.