Pretty average game, calling it the shooter of the decade or better than the first two doom games is untrue...

Genuinely Titanfall 2.

>just pretend things don't exist!
Every. Time.
Remember when games had so tight design that you had to use all its functions in order to survive?

It's done. He's waiting for physical copies to ship and then he's releasing the game for free.

STALKER is a shit shooter dude, it has atmosphere for days but those guns are ass.
...yeah that's fair. Though I don't like TF2's levels.

Good players kill demons without even opening them up for glory kills. So people who say you glory kill all demons just suck at the game.

Shadow Warrior.

Attached: hoji.jpg (700x700, 105K)

Bioshock 2, titanfall2, mw2

>Bioshock

Attached: 1539567716542.jpg (603x791, 101K)

I didn’t say bioshock, I said bioshock 2

nah gimmick katana shit
wow this is a teenager

>teenager
I’m 19 you fag. An Adult.

>STALKER is a shit shooter dude
Wew. Never heard THAT hot take before!
>guns are ass
correction: you are ass at the game.

Lets throw Underhell: chapter 1 there as well.

Attached: UH core command attack.webm (854x480, 2.86M)

Is 2 much different from 1? I did not bother to play 2 because of how shitty 1 was.

Attached: 43779234_491445644668752_9042410423962694990_n.jpg (1080x1199, 110K)

Attached: ELTjudKQoJKJGVvsW6bjok.jpg (1280x720, 161K)

I mean I liked the difficulty but I never felt like it was good shooting. ArmA is a better shooter than STALKER in mechanics.

oh nevermind, it's just fucking doom maps again. guy is 100% stuck in the past.

>source engine movement
yuck. props for the realistic scope though.

So what is the shooter of the decade?
Go on, I'm waiting.

>I never felt like it was good shooting.
Dunno about you, but I found landing a 1-hit KO headshot from the distance, using nothing but irons / exploiting the bullet drop of heavier ammo to be satisfying as fuck. Not to mention the series has some of the most realistic and practical shotguns in the recent history.

it also uses Free Aim -style controls when not in ADS, and has literal Mighty Foot as the "melee weapon".

Attached: SoC popping heads sniper.webm (1024x576, 2.08M)

Serious Sam 3: BFE.
>All about shooting stuff
>you shoot A LOT of stuff
>no console limitations or cancers
>16p co-op / 4p splitscreen
>good visuals and performance
>HUGE options menus = easy to optimize / use as benchmark
>mods. Lots of mods.
Can't wait for the Sam 4.

Attached: ss3 blood & gore in the desert.jpg (1920x1080, 554K)

>Free Aim -style controls
what do you mean by that?

>literal Mighty Foot as the "melee weapon"
so they ripped that from Dark Messiah? with Source devs it always feels like anything one of them does all the other ones end up getting and reusing.

Criminally underrated game. How it doesnt have massive mainstream appeal is beyond me.

>tfw first using the sword and start to realize the game has incredible physics

Attached: 1555276690279.jpg (1024x684, 69K)

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's the best shooter of the decade because of how brilliant the AI is. Think about it, all the other modern shooters are the same hitscan bullshit, it's just simple aimbots programmed to hit a certain % of their shots, and all you can do is kill them before they kill you, or just break line of sight completely. That's why FPS games nowadays are considered "multiplayer only", mechanics of CoD-like games just don't make sense in SP.

In DOOM, every single attack can be dodged. You can do a hitless run if you want to. That's why even if you play on Ultra-Nightmare (the best way to play btw) and even the most basic monsters kill you in two hits with permadeath, it's fair because you know it was your mistake, not some fucking dice roll.
What other modern FPS play like that?

That, and it has great graphics/performance ratio, amazing music, recreates all the monsters from the cult classic, etc...

Good to see you can't refute my point, faggot

>what do you mean by that?
Ever played a Red Orchestra game? It's bit like that;
when you're not aiming through sights, the mouse's movements also move the gun off the center, meaning your shots go where the barrel points, NOT towards the mid-point of the screen.

>so they ripped that from Dark Messiah?
you mean Dark Messiah ripped Duke Nukem 3d?

>reusing stuff
Masterful and tasteful re-using of old ideas tend to result great products at best.

nu-Shadow Warrior was the EXACT SAME SHIT as nu-Duum.
Both totally miss the point and style of the originals, and are consolized and streamlined to hell.

>I can't speak for everyone, but for me it's the best shooter of the decade because of how brilliant the AI is.
The AI is totally moronic, and does not save the game from all its other cancers (linear maps, endless lock-down rooms, tiny enemy mobs, grinding shit to make gameplay decent, cinematic BS, no mods...)

>it has great graphics/performance ratio, amazing music, recreates all the monsters from the cult classic, etc..
Just fuck off and die. Seriously.
The game's art-design is BUTT UGLY and generic as fuck, and the music is literal Zoomer "brraabbrapapa" ear rape.
Even Bethesda's morons seem to have realized that, as the Eternal's designs are much closer to the originals now.

>What other modern FPS play like that?
Serious Sam 3.
Also, limiting the options to the "modern FPS games" just proves how extremely shitty most modern titles are.

>you mean Dark Messiah ripped Duke Nukem 3d?
>Masterful and tasteful re-using of old ideas
I'm not talking about ideas, I mean the actual implementation. Again and again I've observed how one Source engine game pioneered something and then soon after a bunch of other Source engine games also had that same feature. I believe Source devs are a tight knit community who are sharing actual code with each other, either for free or with payments involved.

L4D has flashlight shadows -> suddenly every other Source game has them, too.

Some game (I'm guessing RO or Insurgency) has realistic "second camera" scopes -> suddenly all other Source games also have such scopes.
Vid related:
youtube.com/watch?v=jLx0FPnBng0
The technique looks very much the same. Also the free aim thing, you compared it to RO yourself. It's either what I described above or it's literally the same people just reusing their own code.

>AI is totally moronic
Ok retard
Name 3 other FPS you can do hitless runs off
>grinding shit
You mean, killing all the monsters on a map? 90% of which are on your way to the objective anyway?
>Bethesda's morons
Yeah, Doom is made by Bethesda, who has ever heard of ID software anyway

>L4D has flashlight shadows -> suddenly every other Source game has them, too.
Dear god, the other games using the SAME ENGINE implement the latest ENGINE UPDATES as well?? How dare they!

>muh realistic scopes!
Seriously son, you are mad for literally no reason, and don't know what you're talking about.
And no, RO does not run on Source.

I think you're misremembering how the original dooms played like...

>Name 3 other FPS you can do hitless runs off
Doom.
Duke Nukem 3D.
Blood.

>You mean, killing all the monsters on a map?
No. I mean all the padding shit, Runes and Challenges, all which are "optional" the same way as taking a dozen litres of water with you to the Sahara is "optional.".

>yeah, Doom is made by Bethesda
nu-ID =/= original iD Software.
And nu-ID is owned by Bethesda.
Who are now owned by Zenimax.
Who love to shill the shit out of their trash.

sorry, but I am pretty sure I can recall something I played mere weeks ago.
(You) on the other hand are running out of defensive arguments for your poor-man's Painkiller clone.

lol settle down sperg old doom isn't even full 3d

Seems like summer starts early this year.

Serious Sam 3 was pretty great, but even then it still had hitscan bullshit like the minigun scorpions, or the witches that hold you in the air.
>just proves how extremely shitty most modern titles are
That's unfortunately true, which is why I was waiting for so long to play something like Doom. I can replay the classics only so many times before it gets old.

prove me wrong

The original Doom wasn't 3D you knuckle dragging retard

>Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood
Last time I checked they weren't released in the same fucking decade as Doom 2016, but my math might be off.

>hitscan bullshit like the minigun scorpions
...that signal their attacks like any good oldschool "Doom clone", making it piss easy to avoid the shots. Not to mention the "hitscan" enemies' aim lags behind your movements if you keep moving.

>Witches
Can be easily avoided by keeping distance and staying out of view.

Original Doom games ARE fully 3D.
This can be proven by equipping a projectile weapon, and attempting to attack an enemy that's high above you, just within the view. Instead of being 100% certain hits, the projectiles may instead collide with the ledge on top of the enemy stands on.

On top of that, you move in 3-dimensional manner; forward, backwards, left, right, up and down.

That being said, your "lol Duum's no 3D!" has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic, and is just a pathetic attempt of topic-switch, as there's no more defensive arguments for the 2016's mess.

Last time I checked, the posted dropped the "modern" from the question.

2.5D

Maybe have a better argument than that it sucks because it plays different.

>Original Doom games ARE fully 3D
Now we all know you're retarded
Kthxbye, stay mad faggots

>nineteen

L4D was the first game to feature those shadows. If they were part of an "engine update" then that's lucky timing for them, given how much of a difference those shadows make for the atmosphere in a first person horror game. I assume they developed them and shared their code on Valve / Steam forums.

Also I don't understand your tone at all. I didn't criticize anyone for reusing code. I'm an amateur gamedev myself and I love standing on the shoulders of giants. It's what makes small operations (down to one man creating a whole game) possible. Modern game engines are really nothing but mountains of code other people built up over decades of experience, allowing you to skip over years of work for free or for a share in revenue.

Having said all that, the source of the scope could be Insurgency (the original mod).

Doom is not 3D retard. Quake was the first true 3D game by id software. Fuck off, zoomer.

>2.5D
That ancient meme originates from the fact that Doom's engine does not use polygons for its 3D visuals like modern games do, but instead makes use of sprites and complicated vertex mathemathics, that technically transform 2D geometry into 3D appearance.

Nice ""argument"" you have there, kiddo.

NuDoom is nice, but I much prefer Dusk. It doesn't have to faff about or compromise with its throwbacks. It's just a good old fashioned Quake-like low poly shooter where you strafe around maps and hallways at lightning speed with a sawed off shotgun.

Attached: DuskShotgun.gif (480x270, 3.52M)

shadow warrior reboot was the shit

Attached: shadow-warrior-dvdrom-330787.8.jpg (1500x1500, 201K)

And also because there's no 3d level design or movement :)

There was a bridge once

Serious Sam 3 was better by virtue of not having RPG shit and items locked behind glory kills.

>Maps aren’t designed as well as in the original.

The first map of Doom 1 is literally walking straight out of the first two rooms, taking a right, and proceeding forward to the end-level switch...

Mah intruder

Attached: DuskCigar.jpg (800x450, 41K)

>L4D was the first game to feature those shadows.
Yes, and L4D was made by Valve.
Who made the Source-engine.
Who updated Source-engine several times during the 00s alone.
L4D came out in 2008, after the Orange Box, after the Lost Coast demo. The tech was not "new" anymore by the time.

>Having said all that, the source of the scope could be Insurgency (the original mod).
Nah, if anything, it's from the SMOD, like most of UH's weapons are.

I honestly don't get why you're making such a big fuzz about this. Tech improves and new features become possible. Obviously folks will be adapting them as well.

Old Doom is pretty average desu. It must require advanced autism to appreciate..

This, completed it in a binge while dropped doom after half an hour.

Doom is a true 3D game.
It is just NOT a polygonal 3D game.

But there is.

Attached: 3d.webm (720x528, 1.99M)

The only guy I know IRL who loved the original Doom was one of the biggest faggots I have ever met in my entire life. What is it with Doom that draws pseudo nerds that use it to signal how old school they are?

>Buh DOOM has respawning enemies, it's shit then

> Doom 1 and 2 had rooms where once you got a key, the doors closed and a bunch of enemies showed up, there's no fucking difference

cool are there any stacked rooms?

Are stacked rooms requirement for a 3D environment?

Attached: 1296175922564.png (1920x1080, 774K)

so no, got it ;)

also nice mouse aim oh wait you only need to worry about direction in one axis, not full 3D

Fair enough.

Attached: 1463194385480.jpg (683x512, 195K)

nuDoom is half a good game and half a chore. The first half you just kill piss easy mobs and farm RPG points to make the game fun.

It's overall a fun game with great presentation in some parts (the hell levels), but it isn't the best of anything, other than having the honor of being "my first non-tacticool FPS" for zoomers.

>also nice mouse aim
Doom has mouse aim.

>only one axis
Because the other axis is automated for you, and is not required.
Is it that hard to accept that engine restrictions spawned from hardware limitations of the era would not negate the 3D nature of the game ?

>great presentation in some parts (the hell levels)
What the fuck? The Hell was THE most unimaginitive and YELLOW part of the whole game! Looked like a fucking PS2 game at worst.

Doom 16 was fun, and it would've been a hundred times if they had just released some fucking modding tools. Snapmap felt like I was making maps in TimeSplitters 2 again.

Why are modern devs so reluctant about adding modding support?

Attached: 1513339683241.png (625x720, 804K)

Is it that hard to accept that that's not fully 3D?

DUSK is the best shooter of the 2010s, change my mind.

Attached: 2018-DUSK.jpg (1344x756, 804K)

>L4D was made by Valve
kek, L4D was made by a small studio of modders turned devs. Valve only published. the L4D devs made those shadows, Valve then added them to the engine proper and to their own games.
>after the Orange Box, after the Lost Coast demo
Orange Box didn't add dynamic shadows to HL2, that was the console versions and episode 2. proof: a thread from 2009 where people discuss how Episode 1 on PC did NOT feature dynamic shadows at the time:
gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/914642-half-life-2/45312144
the scope rendering could be explained in similar manner. it could be using code from Portal, another externally developed game Valve merely published.

It's the shooter of the decade simply because shooters have been dead since the 00s. Nudoom has its problems but it's still a breath of fresh air.

>460120135
agreed, however, I don't think nu-doom would ever really be able to have the sheer level of modding that old-doom has. Models, Enemies and guns have to be HD - 3D. Doom mods simply take less time and are easier to make.

Will Doom Eternal have the same lock-you-in-a-room-til-you-kill-everything style arenas?

I remember seeing gameplay footage that showed a sprawling Metroid Prime style map, so I'm hoping they move away from that kind of shit

It is.

This is true

Nudoom isnt the best shooter of all time, but it is the better shooter in recent years. Singleplayer shooters are bland/boring in the recent years.

It's not even the best one in recent years, what else are you comparing it to?

iirc I liked it less than Shadow Warrior. I thought the Shadow Warrior remake kicked ass.

my prediction: yes, but with bigger arenas and slightly more enemies simultaneously. the performance limitations of the original current gen consoles simply don't allow for any other design. you have to make sure the earlier enemies have died before you can spawn in the later enemies. since they're dynamic and follow the player around you can't stream them in and out like static elements in open world games. also the whole structure of the game is linear, there's a little backtracking here and there but by and large you only visit any given arena once.

progress without killing every last enemy could be achieved by locking doors behind you and deleting the enemies prior to said doors to make room for new ones. I believe the dramatic animation doors in nuDoom worked like this. surely this can be done in more subtle manner.

>no new monsters
>no new textures
>no new weapons
>just doom 1's limited monster roster
E1M4b and M8B were good, but I doubt he can make a whole episode and still have it be decent.

NuDoom's pacing is far better than any first-person shooter I've played since 2005 (Doom 3 sucked btw).

Golden Eye started the trend of objective based gameplay. Half-Life 2 started the trend of putting story and puzzles into first-person shooters. Call of Duty started the trend of trying to make games more 'realistic' with aiming down sites, and also did away with consumable health boxes and armor.

NuDoom goes back to its roots. It's pure action with you, a shotgun, and a bunch of demons. There is a story in the background but it never interrupts the game's pacing and you can just ignore it if you want to.

It's not perfect but it beats the shit out of almost everything in the 21st century.

Have to say, DUSK was pretty great. I do think the low poly art was a bit too low poly. Still waiting for the full release of AMID EVIL and Ion Maiden etc.

Haven't played Titalfall 2 yet. What do you recommend?

end yourself, especially if you think that it was good.

i can tell you either have some very shit taste in vidya games, like "buying yearly sport game releases" bad taste, or you're a casual in the extreme sense

I like to argue that it taught a lot of new players about strafing cus most firepower comin at you was slow moving projectice, it's quite fun dodging 5 attacks in a row, that was it 4 me tho

i dont recall old Doom locking me in a fucking arena ALL the god damn time like the new Doom.

but, you do have a point. flawed, but still

Titanfall's campaign is the typical Call of Duty shit, but with a couple of gimmick platforming levels that are kinda fun.
Titanfall's multiplayer is also typical Call of Duty shit, but with some gimmick platforming and a couple of fun weapons outside of the usual fare of hitscan automatics. Doom Eternal seems to be copying how its grappling hook works, though.

There's a bit of a difference. The monster arena in e1m6 for example only closes for a limited time, not until you kill all the monsters. The one in e1m8 does require you to kill things but not all of them.
I still don't agree that the level design in D1 and D2 or Final is necessarily better than Doom4 because rooms above rooms and true 3-dimensional unrestricted movement for both the player and demons are objectively good additions.

>doom16 was garbage and doesn't deserve acknowledgement
Doom 16 helped gaming companies like new blood and 3drealms to make fps' great again. While I know it's pretty damn flawed and yes I'm aware your Bethesda hate boners, I would go saying that entire game was garbage.

>Haven't played Titalfall 2 yet. What do you recommend?
Pirating it.

>Cawaduddy,Bioshit or cawaduddy with mechs

What a pleb taste.

>the other axis is automated for you
Something being automated is a good thing huh? There are some Quake purists who criticize Doom4 for having mantling because of the fact that it takes a small bit away from the strategy of timing jumps. They think that if your character's foot falls 1mm short of the ledge you're trying to reach, then the character should have no chance of salvaging the jump because apparently arms and hands don't exist.

should I get Ion Maiden or Amid Evil anons?

Yes.

daily reminder that doom was considered casual garbage by rpg gamers back then.

I'm looking for something else after finding love with Dusk. Prodeus looks kind of cool.
That's because you put it alongside AAA trash from the past 2 decades that aged like milk. The only one I'd dare give praise to would be HL2. You picked some real weak competition.
>Iron Sights was a bad trend until Doom did it too, but is somehow also separate from its previous examples
>"""Back to its roots"""
>Doom3 sucked btw
At least you set the bar somewhere.

I'll definitely get both eventually, I just want something to play - any preferences?
Ion Maiden only has the one level at the moment right?

Genuinely kill yourself

Check out Prodeus too

no one cares about old school shooters.

It depends. Ion maiden is the first fps title 3drealms have released in a long while and the same people who made dusk made amid evil and dusk was pretty damn good. So its a toss up between returning professionals vs recent professionals

I'd go for Amid first because it has higher chance to get full release "soon".
Ion Maiden is jost demo-episode, yes.
While Amid Evil is one episode short from full release iirc.

thanks anons, I'll grab Amid Evil now and Ion Maiden when it's out out.

I'd managed to miss this one, thanks user

it was a very fun game that much is true.

I think the feeling people get of it being overrated are a testament to how few actually good FPS have come out in the past 20 years if anything.

The FPS genre is the one that suffered the most in terms of "cinematic games" watering everything down.
also consoles

Not as good,but still worth mentioning
Check out project warlock that came out last year or year before.

It's alright. Combat arenas make it feel more like Serious Sam than Doom. I'd give it a solid B-.

I found out about Prodeus like 3 hours before the Kickstarter closed and I had to go to work. I'm glad it at least far surpassed its original goal.

Amid evil hasn't come out yet retard

the gameplay is smoother since you can use plasmids and guns at the same time instead of having to swap between them - not that this was a huge change but it helps - also the research camera was replaced with a video camera so you can record before going into battle and research that way instead of sorta awkwardly trying to take a photo or two during combat - the updated plasmids were fun, possession really breaks the game's difficulty, even on hard - having a drill arm and being able to charge people and send them flying was fun as fuck - the more destroyed version of rapture was fun to explore and being able to walk on the sea floor from time to time due to being a big daddy was a really cool feature - the story is hit or miss with people, i like that it's kinda touching on stuff that is the opposite of the first game, the collective or group is more important than the individual, only through sacrifice and working together can we be greater than a single person but i will admit that the character lamb who drives this doesn't really have the presence that ryan did in the majority of the game - i liked that there were some other more meaningful story driven choices about not just saving the little sisters but the people who you fight against through the majority of the levels, i think those parts were much better than anything in the original which was a very black and white/good and bad sorta game - if you like bioshock there's really no reason to not go and play 2 though you'll have missed out on the multiplayer by now i think, not even sure if that's still supported even with the switch to steamworks on pc from games for windows live - dunno about consoles - also the story dlc for 2 is really good

I had the same problem with glory kills, once you get the kill speed upgrade they become as fast as they should have been at the very beginning, it's not a total solution but it helps.

doomfags are autistic

>Use all functions to survive
>Glory Kill is part of DOOM function
>B-but its a bad design!
How you trigger glory kill again ?

>tfw I like painkiller and nu-doom

Attached: 1550972723048.jpg (960x958, 121K)

the real tragedy here is that mission based shooters like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Timesplitters died out. Sure they were console titles.
But play Perfect Dark with that KB+M mod in 60fps and dare tell anyone that it isn't a super fun experience.

>levels play differently depending on difficulty
>higher difficulty gives you more to do and explore in the levels, instead of just upping numbers
>completing levels under certain times unlocks cheats, also gives incentive to race for times, adding replay value in a meaningful way
>cheats period. they are fun as fuck
>all cutscenes are skippable but entertaining if you want to watch them
>no gimmicks that slow down gameplay
>huge weapon variety, every weapon has a secondary weapon
>kick ass music

no shooters like it have come out since the very early 2000s and it's breaking my heart.
even just a PC port of Perfect Dark XBLA would be awesome

NEW GAME BAD BECAUSE ITS NOT OLD GAME

Borderlands 2, that game is BADASS

>Remember when games had so tight design that you had to use all its functions in order to survive?
In other words, not Doom. You will never voluntarily switch to the regular fist or the pistol.

the developer is jewish

Prodeus looks fucking awful.

You will if you find a berserk pack.

yep, it's fucking Doom 2016 in lower res and with gameplay-bloat like sprinting and reloading

Its one of the most enjoyable shooters to play made in the last 10 years. I'm extremely excited for the sequel.

I don't understand the constant bitching about it and honestly I just shake my head and laugh at all the faggots that can't enjoy a damn good game.

Doomfags are still the worst FPS people.

I'd rather put up with Arena and Halofags.

Pretty much. I hate when developers try to mix modern visual effects with sprites, they just don't mesh well.

Why do people fellate Doom despite the fact that nearly every high profile shooter from 95-05 is better than it? Seriously, everything Pandemic ever created shits on Doom.

>Why do people fellate Doom
Because it's a great game. Even in 2019.

It's a mediocre game that was great at the time. It's nothing special anymore.

is NU DOOM worth 10 monies?

because we are starved for good FPS games. the genre that probably had the least fun releases in the past 15 years.

have you even read the thread

Community content.

nigga lol, i played doom for the first time in 2010 and quake 1 in 2016 and they were great

I'm sorry you're so easily amused. Clearly you haven't played Perfect Dark or Painkiller.

no i dont own a console and i dont want to play fps on console. painkiller was alright but it was just a flat no verticality arena shooter

You just described Doom.

How is it not "fully 3D"? Because the engine prevents one specific type of 3D aspect from being recreated in a nowadays traditional manner?

>Something being automated is a good thing huh?
Whether it's "good" or "bad" has nothing to do with anything.

>There are some Quake purists who criticize Doom4 for having mantling because of the fact that it takes a small bit away from the strategy of timing jumps
And that's a perfectly valid complain.
All those micro animations from climbing, picking up weapons/keys, using switches, etc, are completely unnecessary, gameplay and pacing ruining filler, that should not be in a Doom game. It's a simple game-feel improving matter.

doom is not an arena shooter and it has verticality . there is not a single flat map in doom

>cant even aim up and down.

>IT SUCKS CUS I HATE IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

lol

So what yah damn goy?

Attached: laughing-jew.gif (359x346, 1.98M)

This, I don't understand how someone can insist Doom has no verticality.

That's not very American of you.
>Doom is about as deep as I went into shooters, so if people don't like something about it, they just hate fun
Epic

Attached: DuskDaveOshry.png (500x334, 54K)

I love ttittyfall. Wish more people still played though

Doom is overrated anyway. Blood is where its at

MAZE LEVEL DESIGN GOOD

A lot of them aren't, though. The only levels I can think of that were on the same level as classic Doom was the foundry level and the one where you had to find and destroy the argent containers. Both of which focused mainly on exploration. Most of the others were a bit too linear for my tastes.

That's not to say that 2016 had poorly designed levels (aside from the last fourth of the game, which was pretty weak), I personally liked the one where you had to make your way across a broken bridge and the platforming-heavy one where you had to climb up the inside of the argent tower, but neither of these really resemble a classic Doom map.

Attached: 1331598884040.jpg (329x418, 10K)

>maze level design
Doom is hub-based, not maze-like. You're thinking of Wolf 3D.

Most of nu-Yea Forums have literally never played the original Dooms, and only parrot the silly memes of "lol not real 3D! Rip & tear! :^)".

This too. Yet another meme of zoomers I was about to mention. Apparently anything not pipe-linear is now a "maze" to the kiddies.

and yet people complain about the arenas in nuDoom for whatever reason

he's right though

there is no such thing as a patriotic racist

Because a lot of 2016's maps were semi-linear that funneled you into combat arenas for in-game "fight scenes". Hubs in classic Doom utilize unique architecture so the player can properly orient themselves while exploring the level. They serve completely different purposes.

...are you a literal idiot, or just pretending?
DooM had NO arenas. It was NOT an arena shooter. It was pretty damn open-ended, exploration enabling shooter, where action could take place any time, any where.

DooM's maps were like Resident Evil's mansion, while D2016 is like Half-Life 2.

>arenas in nuDoom don't have unique architecture

hurr

Attached: 1500082900410.png (669x514, 25K)

right it had "hubs" which are just arenas with fewer enemies

>DooM had NO arenas.
Yes it did, it just didn't constantly rely on the use of combat arenas for most demon encounters. Combat arenas were either used as a small gimmick in a much bigger map (e.g. The Pit or Tricks and Traps), or the main gimmick for a smaller map (e.g. most boss maps, Dead Simple, etc.)

>calling it the shooter of the decade or better than the first two doom games
Nobody Said that...way to fuck up dumbass

>missing the point completely
You never have to use a combat arena to orient your location within the level because most of 2016's maps just push you towards the next combat arena.

I actually like it a lot. A good balance between a modern design and an "old-school" design. The music and how it's synched to gameplay still make my blood pump. The weapons also feel really good to use, and agressive play is actually rewarded. In other words, the "basis" of D44M is actually great.

Despite all those qualities, I still am not a huge fan of multiple things. The game has lost part of what made the original DooM games so great, which was the level design that was a bit more "organic" and offered more surprises. While I don't think they'd be able to pull something like the original DooM games ever again, I still wish that in Eternal there will be more of those "OH FUCK" moments. Like when you push a button and suddenly get swarmed with a horde of pinkies.
I don't mind arenas, especially when they're well designed. But when you can sum up the game with arena into walking into arena into walking, it obviously lmake things less interesting.

Also, the upgrade system is shit, since it works only as "straight upgrades". The rune system would be interesting if it did something like gain something but lose something else. Enable different playstyles with their flaw, instead of just making the dick bigger.

I don't know if I would call that the FPS of the decade, since there were some really solid shooters released, such as Call Of Pripyat, PlanetSide 2 and such. But when it comes to FPS games where you have a shotgun that feels great and tears your enemies in little pieces, D44M is definitely the best one. Shadow Warrior reboot and BulletStorm are somewhat honorable mentions for being in the same sub-genre of FPS. But they're not really as good as D44M imo.

Serious Sam 3 and Painkiller both suck dicks

Attached: baby_fox.jpg (900x1200, 223K)

>right it had "hubs" which are just arenas with fewer enemies
No. The enemies were spread out throughout the entire map, and could follow you to other sections as well. Many of the maps were like interlinked loops with some branching sections, connecting the map into one big set.

The "hub" section was usually at the very beginning of the level, the center-piece of the map, from which you could take on one of the many routes.

Forgot to add one thing. I still need to play Dusk. Hopefully I won't be lazy and will play it, because it might be what's the closest to an old-school DooM game.

It was an impulse buy for me, and it became my GOTY 2018, and one of my favorite games in a long time. I gambled on the soundtrack bundle, and the return was its own weight in gold. Fucking masterpiece.

Doom level design sucks and Romero and Carmack are hacks.

wrong. Some maps are more straightforward in nuDoom but same goes for old doom's levels as well

>wrong
How? You essentially just agreed that combat arenas serve a different purpose than hubs.
>Some maps are more straightforward in nuDoom but same goes for old doom's levels as well
Most maps in 2016 were more straightforward, compared to classic Doom where most maps are more exploration-based. Each have their share of open and straightforward maps, but the general focus of each game's level design is clearly different.

(you)

>You essentially just agreed that combat arenas serve a different purpose than hubs.
No I didn't, you said they were but then described how they are used in both games because you have a pathological need to shit on this game for some reason.

Agreed, also the soundtrack is unbearable. I don't know who mixed it, but it sound like over-processed farts.

It's better than all of the CoD's and only slightly better than Halo 3. What is the best shooter this gen in your opinion

Attached: 1502533227202.jpg (460x592, 41K)

It features sprites?

if is so bad how doomworld loves it?

Yeah, the whole game is sprites. So is Amid Evil, but at least that game tries to hide it.

The real question is, is nuDoom worth 100 GB of space on your drive?

No.

all patriots were openly racist before ~1960. the idea of a non-racist is a very novel concept that didn't exist before the 20th century and certainly didn't exist in WW2, everyone was still racist as fuck during WW2.

wew

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 44K)

Game feel is irrelevant when a character's ability to climb onto a ledge his foot missed by the length of three atoms vastly improves movement. You know what is worse than a climbing animation that is a tenth of a second long? Not having a climbing animation and falling because your character can't use his fucking hands to get on top of the ledge.

>worth 100 GB of space
God damn why are all games so huge nowadays, I pity the poorfags in Aussieland.

It's like Serious Sam minus scale.

in the case of nuDoom it's the megatextures meme. taking the same few textures, copy pasting them over large levels and then saving the entire level's texture (means you just saved all the repeating shit countless times redundantly).

inb4
>that's not inherent to megatextures, megatextures were supposed to save us from visual repetition
yeah, supposed to. but in reality artists never had the time to create a bajillion unique textures that hold up from different angles so instead what I describe above is what you get with MT.

>100m wide x 100m long = room has 10000m2 area
>30m wide x 30m long x 15m tall = room has 13500m3 volume
Flat Sam has scale only if you're a brainlet

that is a nice one, someone will fall for it

The Nightmare difficulty tries to force the player to use that stupid fatalities which ends up generating the impression that all weapons in the game are fake. I mean, if you're shooting with a shotgun at the monsters and instead of shredding them, they start dancing unbalanced and "revive" a few seconds, so your gun is a fucking fake.
I was told that this stupid mechanic is only present in the Nightmare difficulty, since in Ultra Violence these occasions are very rare. I do not know if it's true.

Bruh race is a very vague one-sided concept, how is "Non-racism" some sort of contemporary subversive condition to racism?
You could just avoid being racist instead of launching a counter-measure.
Also you can be for just about anything and it'll put you in conflict with Nazis, bearing in mind that they were a direct threat to humanity.
Out of all the class hierarchies, race has always been the most dubious of the social constructs.

Glory kill opportunities are common on all difficulty levels, but on lower levels there isn't as much incentive to perform them since you don't loose health as much

>you said they were but then described how they are used in both games because you have a pathological need to shit on this game for some reason
No, I described how each is used in each game because they have different purposes regarding their use in general level design.

Why even bother saying someone is wrong if you're not even going to explain why.

>Game feel is irrelevant when a character's ability to climb onto a ledge his foot missed by the length of three atoms vastly improves movement
How about... just, just hear me out...

How about... you just MAKE THE CHARACTER JUMP HIGHER?
Make the double jump THE DEFAULT SKILL FROM GET GO ?
Actually add some AIR CONTROL to the fucking game again??

Or better yet: DON'T ADD PLATFORMING SECTIONS, AT ALL??!

>b-but muh character !!
Fuck. Off.
Learn to play the game better, instead of expecting the game to play itself. Jesus, the shit you cock sucking trash-enablers beg for nowadays is disgusting.

Original Shadow Warrior is terrible though and does not make the slightest sense in trying to keep anything from that game.

>have to install all of the content for both snapmap AND multiplayer if I just want to play the singleplayer campaign
Why did Bethesda do this.

quake is better than doom, yet barely anyone sucks it off, why?

Dude, it's the exact same structurally, particularly in say Foundry, only nuDoom also locks the doors and floods it with enemies more often than the original did. It's hardly any grand departure from how the original did things.

>Original Doom games ARE fully 3D.
People say the opposite. because of a youtuber who made a video full of misinformation about the subject and convinced a lot of people who have difficulty understanding abstract concepts.
The Youtuber in question has died and now the video will forever be misleading people.

>Original Shadow Warrior is terrible though
You mean the 1997 original?
If so, fuck you. It's fucking amazing:

Attached: sw tr.jpg (800x600, 129K)

Arcane Dimensions is better

Honestly, the only thing I really liked were the easter eggs. As a pre-teen without a internet access, that scene of the naked girl at the waterfall gave me several moments of happiness.

>cutscenes shouldn’t exist in a doom game
fuck off John Carmack

>Dude, it's the exact same structurally
No? Hell, I already explained this. Hubs are specifically designed and implemented with intention of having players run through them multiple times as they explore a given map. Combat arenas are typically not intended to be explored more than once, and were really only included to the extent they were in 2016 because having enemies roam around and chase you through levels like in the originals caused the game to chug on consoles.

Cutscenes where you're forced to stand around and listen to people yap like in Half-Life 2 shouldn't exist in a Doom game.

>Why are modern devs so reluctant about adding modding support?
Because baking in all the lighting in a single map would take over 20 hours in a PC capable at running the game on recommended settings. Id Tech 6 engine is built in such a way that it necessitates a rendering farm (cluster) in order for devs to work real time in map making.

Because they are physically capable of falling. Because it's not a fucking flat plane.

>how is "Non-racism" some sort of contemporary subversive condition to racism?
people are born racist and then "educated" into anti-racists.
>they [the nazis] were a direct threat to humanity
no, they were a threat to the british economy and the sovereignty of their direct neighbors. who exactly is "humanity"?
>Out of all the class hierarchies, race has always been the most dubious of the social constructs.
biological, not social. and it's only vague at the "intersections" between races. 99% of each race have no problem identifying the race they are a part of and differentiating other races they are not a part of.

>Why are modern devs so reluctant about adding modding support?
What do you expect a modder to do with Doom 2016? You think they can make artwork that matches the quality of the game? You think they want to spent hours compiling a megatextured map? Modern AAA games are basically impossible to mod like the old Doom, highly moddable games are simple games like Doom and Minecraft

>You will never voluntarily switch to the regular fist or the pistol.
I switch to the pistol all the time to save ammo on those canon fodder zombies, you have to be retarded to waste shotgun shells or plasma on them.

>What do you expect a modder to do with Doom 2016?
Make Doomguy faster and alter the game so it's not completely balanced around glorykills. There's more to modding than just making maps.

>You will never voluntarily switch to the regular fist
There's no point in wasting ammo on low tier enemies when you can just punch them after finding a Beserk pack.

Your fucking mom looks awful.

The original Doom has platforming even though it has no jumping. Adding jumping is an objective improvement. Adding climbing on top of that is a further improvement. It would only be a detraction if you're playing as someone who literally has no hands. "Just learn to play better" in the context that you're making demands in is asking someone to just pretend that the character has no arms and absolutely has to reach every platform with his legs pointing straight down. You're not arguing for skill. You're arguing for decreasing realism in a way that decreases control and range of movement. You're literally worse than a Rockstar game designer decreasing control for the sake of improving realism in animation. At least they are improving something when making another thing worse.

nobody cares about gameplay tweaks

I thought it was overrated too until I went back and played some 7th gen shooters. D44m was the first console FPS in 8 years to not be CoD or a shitty copy of CoD. No squadmates, no stealth sections, no Russians, nobody kicks down a single door.

Attached: 71IZvTX1z9L._AC_SL1001_.jpg (858x1001, 117K)

>Adding climbing on top of that is a further improvement
How?

The post says regular fist. Nobody is arguing that berserker fist is useless.
Chaingun uses pistol ammo and fires two consecutive shots at max accuracy at a time.

The fist is useful if you have no other ammo, it's a fallback.

I recall at least 3 doors being opened by kicking. The hostage with the IED, and those two sections right at the end.
Great game though, totally worth a try.

No jumping means that you can clear narrow gaps and wide gaps downwards. Jumping means that you can clear wide gaps and even travel upwards. Jumping and mantling allows you to clear gaps beyond the maximum range of your jump and to reach ledges that are half your character's height too high.

>nobody cares about gameplay tweaks because I said so
Almost every moddable game has mods that alter gameplay in some way or another.

>voluntarily

>Chaingun uses pistol ammo and fires two consecutive shots at max accuracy at a time.
No, user, I'm talking about nuDoom.

this is my point. its an oldschool shooter at the core. compared to most modern ones which are slow as fuck its a breath of fresh air.

>caring abut ammo in nuDOOM
that's even worse

Then stop responding to posts when you don't know what they're talking about.

>Jumping and mantling allows you to clear gaps beyond the maximum range of your jump and to reach ledges that are half your character's height too high.
Why is this good?

For the same reason as to why the character being able to walk up stairs is a good thing. Because his physiology allows it. Doomguy can lift his foot and reach the height of a step. Doomguy can grab a BFG9000 and wield it with his hands. So there's no reason why Doomguy couldn't grab a ledge and pull himself up.

Try that again, but now focus on why it improves the gameplay.

yeah doom probably does too, that's not what a "moddable" game is

Because it allows the player to navigate the levels with the same amount of freedom as the demons can. Doom4 didn't just give the player's movement increased range. It also extended that advancement to the enemies.

>that's not what a "moddable" game is
Then what is it to you? A game that includes level editing tools?

You already have a double jump. Why does every jump need a safety net that plays a canned animation?

>That being said, your "lol Duum's no 3D!" has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic, and is just a pathetic attempt of topic-switch, as there's no more defensive arguments for the 2016's mess.
lmao at this guy
when you're really so butthurt over a game that by and large people have enjoyed and has enjoyed success
it's like you really have nothing better to do on a saturday then being a bitch
if you don't like a game, here's a crazy, novel idea
don't play it

Attached: 1405534925561.png (201x364, 168K)

Because it turns levels into a giant arena where you jump around and shoot demons from various levels, angles, and positions. It allows for more fluid movement and gameplay, and makes for more seamless fights, especially when you run into a big "fight arena" area.

>safety net
You exposed yourself as a faggot who defends skill ceilings in a singleplayer game. Now since you are clearly just advocating for artificial difficulty, then I guess you can enforce your precious epic skill of jumping properly by not holding down the jump key when you are approaching a ledge that you do not think you have deserved to reach, so that the game does not make you climb it. It can't be that hard, since you're obviously so skilled. You've already unbound your melee key because of principled opposition to glory kills so why not just go all the way?

Something that allows for the insertion of significant user content instead of just tweaking a few values

>who defends skill ceilings in a singleplayer game
As opposed to what? Defending casualization so that consolefags can play too?

But when your character can clear obstacles that are beyond the reach of wheelchair bound people, all that jumping around and shooting demands a single braincell's worth less thinking as you don't need to make absolute judgements on your jumps. The game does that all for you by letting you climb things. And a single braincell's worth of less thinking means that I'm using only half my brain.

Because platforming in first person is tedious when you're constantly having to look down to make sure you've lined up your jumps correctly. Turok 1 is an example of this.

Ledge grabbing/mantling just makes this process less tedious, and also allows the player to traverse environments more fluidly in a general sense.

>Because platforming in first person is tedious
You have a double jump, and a perk that increases air control.

Large IQ post.

I dont use anything except the plamagun and supershotgun in doom 2 and i can survive just fine

lmao user, you almost got me ;)

You're the one defending a character's selective inability to utilize his limbs. If Doomguy can't mantle, he shouldn't be able to press switches either. Or use a gun. Those use hands.

All of that helps, but doesn't get rid of the issue of
>constantly having to look down to make sure you've lined up your jumps correctly
This isn't an issue in third person because you can already tell where your character is in relation to whatever they're jumping towards. The first person perspective introduces its own small issues when platforming, which are easily fixed by the inclusion of mantling.

No, I'm the one arguing for mechanics that ruin the flow of the game to be removed.

I didn’t think it was possible for a person to hate this masterpiece, until I went on Yea Forums for the first time in 4 years

It's really not an issue when you become familiar with the maps. I could run around any map in my favorite FPS games backwards looking at the sky if I so choose.

>Pretty average game, calling it the shooter of the decade or better than the first two doom games is untrue.

Nobody says either of those things

>Criminally underrated game. How it doesnt have massive mainstream appeal is beyond me.

It sucked. No, really. It's not underrated at all.

Falling due to not reaching a platform takes longer than not falling due to mantling up the platform. It's improving the flow, not ruining it.

Falling due to not reaching a platform is punishment for not playing the game properly, just as dying is. Many jumps make the climbing animation mandatory. It both makes the game easier and ruins the flow for people who wouldn't fuck up their jumps in the first place.

>It's really not an issue when you become familiar with the maps
So the you admit that it's still an issue on your first playthrough. An issue that has an easy solution, ergo why mantling was included in Doom 2016.

Why should a game not require you to learn things while playing it?

There's a difference between comfort and challenge that you don't seem to be able to grasp. And you're still failing to acknowledge the fact that the physical inability to grab ledges makes no sense for a superhuman demon killer. You will acknowledge it or GTFO.

There are more important things to teach the player than the general spacing between specific platforms in every single level.

>It both makes the game easier and ruins the flow for people who wouldn't fuck up their jumps in the first place.
Could you not say the same thing about double jumping?

>And you're still failing to acknowledge the fact that the physical inability to grab ledges makes no sense for a superhuman demon killer.
Because I don't care about your autistic lore shit.
Not at all. Learning a level's layout is one of the most important things in an FPS. In any game, really.

Double jump can arguably make the game easier, but it doesn't take away your gun, nor does it force you to rub your face against a wall.
The pipes in Eternal, while seeming to take away your gun, allow you to maintain momentum while airborne and can chain into other actions.

That's been a standard in gameplay since the NES, I'm not sure why people hate learning anything about their own entertainment

>Calls someone's advocacy for sensible control interface design autistic
>Advocates for arbitrary binary failure states in zealous defense of a specific skill ceiling in a singleplayer game
You're done.

>arbitrary
Missing a jump isn't arbitrary. Should bottomless pits not exist either?

>gibs and bulletholes disappear almost instantly
>weapon upgrade system is shit
>takedowns
>piss poor level design with LOCKDOWN sections
>piss poor level editor, optimization so bad you're limited as to how many demons you can have per room/entire level
>no mods
>forgettable endboss
Is Eternal even going to be worth installing the Bethseda Launcher/Epic for? I really enjoyed the game when it first released but looking back they have a lot to fix.

Weapon switching animations in the original Doom take away your gun for a longer time than climbing over a fence does in D44M.

I don't believe you.

eternal is confirmed for steam.

bethesda isn't stupid and doesn't need epic's money.

compared to most other FPS of the 2010s, this game was really good

I mean, it was fun kicking some ass.
The story was low-tier, but i expected it to be this way...and didn't felt the need for some 300iq Deus Ex like stuff

It looks good, the gameplay is fast and makes fun and the soundtrack also fits.

in short: fuck off oldfag!

>Learning a level's layout is one of the most important things in an FPS
Learning a layout is, yes, remembering that you have to hold forward for 3 seconds so that you land in the middle of one platform compared to only needing to do so for two seconds for the next platform is not.

That's muscle memory, not "learning a level's layout" which more so involves recalling combat scenarios and item placement.

based, probably worth picking up on sale at a key site like the last game then

they're fixing the low hanging fruit shit like not outsourcing MP this time, having a higher enemy limit, those sorts of things. but when it comes to difficult stuff they're just outright discarding it. snapmap is dead. usermade content is dead.

doomworld likes it

Thanks for confirming that you either didn't play Doom 2016 or the original, or both

>Double jump can arguably make the game easier, but it doesn't take away your gun
Then don't mantle in a situation when you absolutely need your gun.

Attached: 1555223734356.jpg (640x426, 157K)

You should have a general idea of how the player character can move. Knowing where platforms are and how they're spaced is absolutely learning.

>compared to most other FPS of the 2010s, this game was really good
true and irrelevant because FPS made before 2010 still exist. it's a console game with poor mouse input and higher difficulty modes that are just more health and damage for enemies.
>the gameplay is fast and makes fun
zurück in die schule, sören.

You're welcome.

Attached: file.png (833x165, 102K)

>with poor mouse input

there is nothing wrong with the mouse input in doom

It's Doom, there should never be a situation where I'm not combat-ready.

>Knowing where platforms are and how they're spaced is absolutely learning.
Regarding a first person platformer, it's teaching yourself muscle memory for a specific instance, not learning a map's general layout, like you said.

It also doesn't remove the tediousness of learning the spacing of those platforms on your first playthrough, which was my initial point. Platforming isn't hard in first person, it's tedious. Mantling fixes that.

You should already have a rough idea of what the character you are controlling can or cannot do.

And now you confirmed that you're retarded. If you can't tell how much slowed the weapon switching in Doom1 is compared to the climbing in Doom4 it's a miracle your heart can keep up a beat. Or know what the numbers 1 and 4 are.

yes, there is. it's delayed or smoothed somehow. it doesn't feel anywhere near as smooth as it should at the respective framerate you're playing it. it ran at well over 100 fps on my old PC (haven't installed it on the new one) and felt like other games feel at 60 or even less.

if you want to judge mouse input you need a baseline. CounterStrike and Quake have basically flawless mouse input. I can also set up a scene in Unity and get the same kind of flawless mouse input. compared to these benchmarks Doom mouse input is shit.

>there should never be a situation where I'm not combat-ready
As another user said, switching between weapons in the original Doom games takes longer than mantling in 2016, which takes half a second at most.

who's this anti doom autist?

Prove it.

(You)

Attached: Get-Sex'd.gif (472x407, 1.62M)

dusk

But I'm still in control of them, and so I still have to line up jumps differently than I would in a third person game. Again, mantling fixes this.

We can keep going in circles if you want. You're not really providing any convincing arguments as to why mantling is bad for platforming in first person when there have been similar games that lacked mantling and were more tedious for it. You'd have a point if mantling was some slow and cumbersome process in Doom 2016, but it isn't, so there's no real issue with its inclusion.

Why? You've got both classic and new Doom installed, see for yourself.

Infinite jumps is good for platforming, but bad for the game as a whole.

Cool, but we're not talking about infinite jumps. Doomguy's doesn't traverse like Kirby in 2016.

>zurück in die schule, sören.

würd ich gerne, dann hätt' ich wieder viel Freizeit ;-)

and...no, there was NOTHING wrong with the mouse.

It's the same sort of safety net. It exists so you get up onto ledges when you miss jumps.

It also exists to make platforming in first person less tedious, which is a better net positive in a fps that features platforming segments and vertically-layered level design.

If we were talking about a game that was purely about platforming challenges, then your "safety net" argument might hold more weight.

anyone played ion maiden? i just tried it and it feels really fucking great. shockingly great.

Is it releasing any time soon? I swear it was supposed to be out sometime around the beginning of this year.

...

You're given enough options to where it's not really tedious at all. Have you ever played a jump map before?
As of a couple months ago, it's playable beginning to end. It's probably just in the polish phase at this point.

It's nugaming crap, but the original sucks as well.

>You're given enough options to where it's not really tedious at all.
Yes, because they included mantling.
>Have you ever played a jump map before?
Aren't jump maps purely about platforming challenges? Platforming is an element of Doom 2916, not the focus, so not being super punishing about said platforming is understandable. The devs don't expect players to replay the same level segment over and over again until they get it right, they use platforming as away to vary the level design, both horizontally and vertically while you fight demons.

Jump maps are also much more complex than any of the platforming in Doom 4. The climbing isn't necessary.

>Jump maps are also much more complex than any of the platforming in Doom 4
Well they should be, since complex platforming is the main point of those maps. Again, platforming is included in 2016 to vary how you traverse through a level, not the main focus. The inclusion of mantling is fine in this instance because complex, punishing platforming isn't the point of the game. Players shouldn't be replaying specific level segments over and over again because they can't platform properly, they should should be focused more on chasing down and killing demons, while performing some light platforming at the same time. The inclusion of mantling is there to keep the pacing of said platforming elements fluid.

And here we see the final evolution of of "user bitching about the new thing that sucks." Unable to acquire sufficient edginess by simply rejecting this "nugaming crap" he resorts to rejecting the original out of hand. Unfortunately for him, this means that there is no longer a point to be made, and his position can be reduced to "everything is terrible."

In the end, he will be consumed by his own, to maintain the status quo, and thus the cycle of baseless argumentation continues.

Attached: 1026px-Ouroboros-simple.svg.png (1026x1024, 130K)

>punishing platforming isn't the point of the game.
Then why is there platforming over bottomless pits?

Only played 1. I hope 2 is massively better than 1.

Punishing platforming not being the main point of the game doesn't mean that elements of punishing platforming can't exist within it.

Doom 2016 also let's you customize your playstyle with different kinds of unlockable perks and weapon parts, but that doesn't mean roleplaying is the main point of the game.

>Bait thread gets 300 posts, but it’s really just 80 anons jacking each other off.

>Hell, I already explained this. Hubs are specifically designed and implemented with intention of having players run through them multiple times as they explore a given map
wow just like in nuDoom, hurr

Unfortunately nuDoom's arenas are designed around mantling, meaning there's an obligatory 0.5s delay in your movements for each platform you climb which kills your momentum somewhat, and quite frankly as with the Glory Kills I don't do with control being taken away from me when better alternatives exist.
Titanfall 2 came out the same year and featured mantling as well, but its platforming was superior because it gave you enough movement techniques to build up speed, which allowed you to make longer horizontal jumps or even vertical ones through wallrunning without having to rely on mantling. If you were good enough, you wouldn't need to rely on mantling at all.

Mantling in first-person shooters is effectively a crutch, admittedly a necessary one because of the imprecise nature of first-person platforming, but by giving the player enough tools to traverse the environment with a greater amount of control over speed and height traveled you can have both mantling being a crutch for lesser-skilled players but also traversing the map while preserving your momentum.

desu the fact the level design gets worse as you go on is just like the original Doom

I bet they purposefully designed it that way, did the levels backwards like DooM did

>I bet they purposefully designed it that way
No, I'm pretty sure it's because the game was insanely rushed. The game's general plot wasn't even finalized until around nine months before release.

Makes sense that Foundry is one of the best levels when it was the first one shown off and likely had the most dev time spent being polished and expanded on.

>>gibs and bulletholes disappear almost instantly
Thy still havn't fixed this? I thought they said they would bring back the Arch-vile. How do they plan on doing that, when bodies still disappear instantly?

Attached: 1549152541649.jpg (1200x1386, 118K)

Nobody said nuDoom lacked hubs, just that combat arenas aren't hubs and that nuDoom didn't use hub-based level design as much as the originals did.

Doom '16 was good and Eternal is looking better. Fuck the contrarians.

Attached: 0813f2f65ed2c5b765552677b17c6e9f.jpg (564x824, 100K)

Back to CoD, babby.

wtf I hate nuDoom now?

Probably because you're a moron who can only communicate through the memes you ingest on a daily basis.

>cutscenes shouldn’t exist in a doom game
those are loading screens, sweety

>exploration-focused level design
I know that's what people expect because that's what made the original Doom good, but in nuDoom all the exploration parts are literally just window dressing and the game would have been better without it.

Take the level design in Devil May Cry. DMC1 had this Resident Evil-esque interweaving mansion (because it originally was a RE game), but combat took place almost entirely in rooms where you'd get locked in by magical barriers to prevent you from just running past everything. Now, what did the whole non-linear structure of the castle even add to the combat itself? It made for some good atmosphere, but if you were playing for S-ranks it doesn't matter at all since you want to get from A to B as possible so you can get the time bonus.
In DMC5 all the levels were reduced to hallway -> circular arena -> hallway -> circular arena, etc. And that was fine, because the combat (e.g. the focus of the game) didn't suffer from it at all, and also reduced potential downtime from getting lost. The DMC games have 'shitty' level design because they're just frankly not about complex levels.

The exploration in nuDoom can never be as good as original game, because enemies can drop health on death. What made exploration in olDoom so tense and enticing because resource management played a huge factor. Enemies could easily whittle you down if you weren't careful through hitscan, and all those little mistakes could cost you down the line. There was a finite amount of medkits in the level, so there's a limit to the mistakes you can make. In Doom, you ideally don't want to use more resources than necessary.

But in nuDoom this element of tension completely dissipates because encountering an enemy is an opportunity to gain more resources through Glory Kills, netting you health and sometimes ammo. Finding secret items doesn't matter as much when you can regain those items during combat with relative ease.

Wouldn't the solution to this be to just have enemies NOT drop health instead of fully removing any aspect of exploration?

>dmc was original a re game
>silent hill was originally an re game
anything else was originally an re game?

Doom 2016 already uses actual loading screens, though.

Also, the nuDoom enemies wouldn't work as well in olDoom-styled levels. Remember, the only reason the way the olDoom levels are the way they are is because the enemy AI in olDoom is braindead and moves at a snail's speed compared to you. Levels had to be designed in such a way with combinations of particular enemies on top of a particular layout so the game could actually pose a threat to the player.

However, this means that the level designer often has to design around the expectations that an enemy won't move beyond this spot in particular, effectively acting as a mobile turret. nuDoom actually opts for an AI-focused approach for its enemies, and one of the cornerstones of enemy AI that can help pose a better challenge is high enemy mobility, by traversing the arena and trying to flank the player. This aspect would go greatly underutilized if you were to design levels in the style of the old ones where most enemies serve the purpose as a mobile turret.

This unfortunately means that in a space that isn't an arena, the nuDoom enemies can be nowhere as effective. Take all spaces inbetween the arenas in nuDoom, there often just isn't enough space to present a high amount of enemies for there to be an actual challenge, or even as a combat space it's just boring as not every bit in a level can be a multi-layered combat arena. Not locking the player off also means that you could just backpedal endlessly when there's a bulletsponge in front of you, which is what the developers wanted to avoid through Glory Kills.

Exploration segments in nuDoom were fucking boring because combat can only be any good in arenas, and because you can quickly regain health on the short-term there's no risk which made the exploration in olDoom tense and not boring

How is 2? 1 was incredibly boring for me.

Dude I love new doom, but no, the maps aren't as good as the originals, it's a just a series of interconnected arenas with the only exceptions being the foundry level and that outdoorsy level where you destroy the accumulators.

The first map of Doom 2016 is literally shooting two or three dudes and then walking into a cutscene.

more of the same, except I've seen quite a few people say it's worse for whatever reason, I don't really remember because they're both fucking boring to me

>Wouldn't the solution to this be to just have enemies NOT drop health instead of fully removing any aspect of exploration?
you'd run into the problem of AI being underutilized in retro shooter-style levels I mentioned before, and even within arenas not having enemies drop health would make it somewhat ridiculous

Combat in nuDoom isn't exactly precise, you're constantly getting hit from outside your field of view because of the circular design of the arenas, so something like a no damage run in nuDoom would be even more painful to pull off than in olDoom. Especially on Nightmare where enemies can easily shave off 50 to 100HP. Besides, without Glory Kills you're still left with players being more likely to play like a bitch. There's a bunch of other incentives you can dangle in front of their faces to discourage that, but "DONT BE A BITCH AND GET FREE HEALTH" should speak to even the biggest retard.

STALKER is just a shit game that people only jerk off over because of it's atmosphere
the gameplay is boring and repetitive

I recall feeling that it was off when I first gave it a try on my old 670 but I kinda discounted it as the game just running poorly, for my tastes at least, in general on that. I got a 1070 recently though and it feels perfectly fine on it while getting a pretty consistent 144fps. Maybe the mouse input is better on Vulkan? My 670 couldn't do DX12 or Vulkan without stuttering. I also hear that the Razer Chroma option can cause poor frame pacing so maybe that fucks with it even if you don't have it?

the framerate was perfectly smooth on my old 280 in vulkan. it wasn't the framerate. if mouse felt shit then and good now they might have patched it.