Videogames with Aztec or Mayan aesthetics?

Nice

cont:

Those are the only two I know I think are worth mentioning that are mesoamerican themed as entire games rather then just specific missions/levels, characters, factions, etc.There's a few more, like Azteka and The Ball, but I doin't particularly think they are worth mentioning. Mulaka is pretty good, but it's inspired by a tribe from northern mexico, but those tribes are more culturally related to like southwest US indian tribes, not actual Mesoamerican civilizations with cities, goverments, etc

Obviously, if you include games with only specific levels and areas inspired by it, then there's a ton more options since plenty of games have one off levels with the theme, as other people in the thread have pointed out: other noteworthy mentions for "single levels" are Star Fox adventure's walled city, which is actually also pretty speffically based on real central highlands Mesoamerican culture's aeshetics like the Aztec and Teotihuacan, not just a generic sterotypical aeshetic; pretty much any strategy game, Mario Oddyssy's desert kingdom, pretty much any early 3d platformer, etc. It's not out yet, but Indivisible has a whole area based on the Maya Kan kingdom, one of the two most powerful Classical Maya royal dyansities, and that looks pretty promisiing, though the enemies in that area aren't just maya but are also pulling from Aztec, Mixtec etc mythology

I also gotta give special mention to Kotal Kahn in MKX and especially in MK11: his attire isn't accurate, but overally he's a really well done adaption of the Aztec god Huitizlpotchli and there's a lot of work putting in real aztec cultural references with him, enough I could (and plan to) do a whole essay on it, if anybody wants me to talk more about it I can

t. Mesoameriaboo

Actual Mesoamerican shit is aeshetic and cool as fuck, see pic. Comparing it to modern mexico would be like comparing ancient greece to modern shithole greece

Attached: Royal Gardens in the Aztec Captial of Tenochtitlan, Scott and Stuart Gentling.jpg (1796x983, 1.48M)

Aztecs were pretty violent but had nice aesthetics

Attached: 1506995353295.jpg (1366x2189, 742K)

sa

They really aren't that exceptionally violent: it's just the more violent elements of their culture are the stuff that gets attention, and when they WERE violent they were pretty flashy about it.

For example, nobody ever talks about how much the Aztec were fucking autists when it comes to cleanliness and self hygine, or how much they fucking loved the shit out of flowers and how much they loved putting gardens in communal spaces and noble homes, or the fesvials where kids would go around the city tagging each other with bean-bags and having fun: It's the sacrifice that gets all the attention even though they did offereings of like flowers or animals or maize way more then hearts, and even though the amount of sacrifices they did paled in comparsion to some of the deaths you see in religious wars and persecutions by christcuck,s and mudslimes back in Eurasia.

Golden Sun and Bayonetta has Aztec mythological figures

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_mythology_in_popular_culture

remider that those sorts of outfit is basically the equailvent of titty-armor and fantasy outfits in MMO's to real european clothing, actual aztec attire was nothing like it.

here's a depiction of an aztec wedding with accurate attire, dress, and a real ceremoney being shown for reference, albiet chibi styled

Attached: the_little_ahuizotl_in_tlatoani_s_wedding_by_nosuku_k-d9rtvmf.png (1024x724, 1.1M)

It also helps to understand the sort of moral ethics, cosmology, and worldview that feeds into those more violent elements

Aztec cosmology was all about teotl, which was a sort of supernatural energy which was thought to make up everything in the world, and showed itself via dualist concepts and the cylical nature of reality and existence; the most important of which was life and death: Living things consume and kill others to live themselves, the world itself had been created and destroyed 5 times, with the gods giving up their own effort, blood, and lives to make the new world, etc

Sacrifice itself was giving up life to sustain the overall life of the cosmos by feeding the sun, but both death and the end of reality was inevitable, even the gods would fall to impossibly ancient and powerful cosmic forces.That sort of nihilistic idea that all things, including life, was fleeting and would eventually erode is also pretty key, a lot of their art and poetry, has to do with reminding you beauty of nature and life but also it's fragility and fleetingnes, see pic

So when you see stuff like the skulls and blood in all their art, it's really more of a reflection and a reminder that life is temporary and fleeting, sort of like the skulls and skeletons you see in Christian and Catholic icongraphy. Likewise, a huge part of their moral philsophy and ethics was the idea that you put the well being of others, society, and the world over yourself: You were supposed to live a self-sacrifcing life, sacrifice was just the ultimiate form of that.

Actual Nahua philsophers went further with this, and had a whole philosophical setup conceptualizing actual teotl mechanics as basically spinoza metaphysics', with everything in the world being made up of teotl moving certain ways (with specific types of motion defined) and the end of the world basically being teotl entropy and teotl universal heat death see: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5495687/#5510689

Attached: aztec poetry.png (612x2286, 777K)

it's all about balance

Dominions has Mictlan, Xibalba
fuck blood magic

in fact gonna dump more examples

Usually I dump imnages of archecture like but clothing would be a nice change of pace

Attached: 136 Aztecas.jpg (758x1134, 210K)

>"Mesoameriboo"

Top notch. Will look into.

No problem user, If you wanna learn more, check out

>my posts on quality of life and society in the aztec captial here desuarchive.org/his/thread/5446429/#5466013 ;I also link rars and stuff of art around the thread
>my posts on aztec sacrifice practices, cosmology and metaphysical philosophy: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5495687/ ; note that there were two other anons having nonstop obnoxious conversations which you should ignore
>my posts on their Aztec warfare: archived.moe/k/thread/39206407
>my posts on metallurgy, watercraft, and briefly on goverment: desuarchive.org/his/thread/4232340/#4233526
>My posts on why the Conquest of Mexico was extremely lucky and how it easily could have turned out with Cortes failing and diplomatic trade with europan powers and the modernization of Mesoamerican states, if not the lack of widespread colonization of the Americas in general; and how even if Spain wanted to if Corts failed they probably couldn't conquer it: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5526254/#5526329 and shorter version: boards.fireden.net/v/thread/441551507/#441565260
>An overall summery of Mesoamerican history: desuarchive.org/his/thread/4176613; see also pic related, Albeit the posts about how the Aztec empire got founded in particular (posts 11 to 16 in the main reply chain) is made obsolete by a better summary I did here: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5285820/#5290147;
>A brief overview of city sizes, hydraulics, sanitation, and botany: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5506706/#5528829 and a more in depth version which I never finished here: desuarchive.org/k/thread/39546199/#39557233

Most importantly of all, in desuarchive.org/his/thread/5446429/#5453842, I link to a mega drive with art & book scans, as well as a reddit post that includes a collection of askhistorians posts, a booklist, and recommends specific primary sources as well as artists, youtube channels, etc

Attached: mesoamerican history summary.png (1457x1520, 345K)

reminder the catholic church destroyed aztec culture because cortes came to america for gold and slaves and the only reason why the aztecs lost was because cortes allied with slavers and used their numbers to attack the aztecs which had been setting people free and destroying the asshole tribes around them

Pathways Into Darkness

troll zones in World of Warcraft
Mictlan and Xibalba in Dominions 5
that one level of Delta Force: Land Warrior where there are terrorists at the temple of Tikal

Top left and far left middle row is civillian attire. The 3 really decked out dudes somewhat to the left in the middle row are royalty/king (though the rightmost in white garb might be a super high up political official or a prince, not sure). and the guys in black around them are priests. The guy in blue in in the middle-right of the middle row with the funny hat with the black "ears" is also a king, specifically Nezahualcoyotl, the most famous ruler of the city of Texcoco, the second most powerful of the 3 ruling cities in the Aztec empire, though in an Ehuatl warsuit rather then ceremonial or adminstrative garb. On a similar note, the king with the big green headdress is meant to be Montezuma II, but the headdress was never actually worn by him and is more a luxary art piece: the "crown" for an Nahua (see below) king was rather a triangular diadem, which you see on the kiing in the cyan/turquoise robe and with the jaguar waistcloth (as well as on the king in The right middle row, right top row, and right bottom row are all soldiers, though notably the rightmost two guys on the bottom row and most of the guys on the right top seem to be from cities, that while belonging to the "Aztec culture", IE, Nahua, either weren't part of the main Nahua ethnic group we associate with the Aztec, the Mexica of Tenochtitlan (the most powerful of the 3 ruling cities, and was either a formal or de-facto captial), and could be from some more distant city that's not part of the core valley the empire was centered in or could even be from Nahua cities not part pof the empire: The Republic of Tlaxcala was ethnically Nahua but was an indepedent, enemy state.

Attached: Attire from the Aztec and other Nahua, Central Mexican groups. EVEN MORE DOWNSCALED AND COMPRESSED.j (3443x2256, 3.14M)

They forgot the part where they skin a slave girl alive and wear her skin as clothing

Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy)

kek

I have no fucking idea what that is, but I want that feel.

Attached: quetz.jpg (920x1200, 245K)

shadow of the tomb raider

must have been a slaver

Cortes didn't ally with slaves/oppressed tribes (there were basically no tribes in Mesoamerica: the region had formalized states operating out of cities for thousands of years already, see the image in ; calling them tribes would be like calling greek city-states tribes) he, and the aformentioned Republic of Tlaxcala allied with each other due to them currently being subject to Aztec invasions and blockades.

The Aztec Empire itself was far from tyranical or oppressive: they didn't even rule their conquered cities directly, they were left to their own devices and still self ruled with their own laws and customs, they merely had to pay annual tribute, help on military campaigns, etc. In general, most Mesoamerican empires had some sort of indirect rule due to the lack of beasts of burden making long distance adminstration and force projection tricky.

After Montezuma II died after smallpox broke out in the captial, thoughj, Cortes and Tlaxcala were able to convince a variety of cities, some inside the empire, some outside of it, to join with them to siege the captial: This had little to do with them hating the Aztec or wanting to "free' themselves for most of them, and had more to do with wanting to stragetically take out the now weakened primary geopolitical player to further their own geopolitical interests. as I mentioned, most Mesoamerican empires were hands off, so these sorts of political power plays and alliances and uprisings were common, since each city, even the ones inside a larger empire, viewed themselves as a discrete political unit/city-state, and political power/authority was based more around influence, the threat of military action, political marriages, tracing your royal line back to prior respected ciziiliations, etc; not direct rule/imperalism.

In fact, virtually every time an Aztec emperor (IE, king of Tenochtitlan) died, border proviences would cease paying tribute to see what they could get away with

1/2

cont:

In one case, the new emperor, Tizoc, did such a poor job re-conquering these border provinces and city-states, basically losing his whole armies while only capturing a few dozen enemy soldiers to sacrifice himself, that way more cities broke off and ceased paying tribute, and the entire empire was threatened by his incompetence, that the Mexica nobility at Tenochtitlan had Tizoc assassinated, and even thougn his successor Ahuitzotl, did a good job on his intial campaigns against the resulting rebelling cities during his ascension, the political damage to the Aztec empire was done and various other indepedent states all basically blew Ahuitzotl's invatations to his cornation ceremony off, which was basically the Mesoamerican diplomatic verison of "lmao look at this weakling cuck":

>These foreign rulers were invited in order to impress them with Aztec grandeur and to instill them with the pomp and ostentation. The sovereign of Tlaxcala answered that he was unwilling to attend the feasts in Tenochtitlan and that he could make a festival in his city whenever he liked. The ruler of Tliliuhquitepec gave the same answer. The king of Huexotzinco promised to go but never appeared. The ruler of Cholula sent some of his lords and asked to be excused since he was busy and could not attend. The lord of Metztitlan angrily expelled the Aztec messengers and warned them to take care, for the people of his province might kill them if they recognized them.

So yeah: Cortes getting allies has way more to dpo with Mesoamerican politics then any sort of Aztec oppression: The only cities that allied with Cortes to take out Tenochtitlan that had any sort of beef with them was Tlaxcala due to being currently invaded, Huextozinco for being commonly occupied during Aztec incusions into Tlaxcala since it was in a narrow pass on the way, and Texcoco, which had just seen a successon crisis that Tenochtitlan meddled in

2/3 need one more post

cont:

And even Huextozinco and Texcoco only joined with Cortes after Tenochtitlan was weakened and vulnerable, and none of the other 5 cities had any beef with Tenochtitlan at all: Itzapalapa, Xochimilco, Chalco, and Mixquic were all some of the 30 core cities in the central valley that Tenochtitlan, Texcoco, and the third ruling city, Tlacopan, was in, and if anything, greatly benefitted from the tribute influx from more far off cities and provinces

In general, this sort of approach where native city-states and kingdoms allied with Conquistadors to further their own political interests and to take out rivals is common all throughout the Conquest, and, alongside diseases, is the prtimary reason Spain was able to succeed: the more hands off, more city-level independent political norms meant that from the perspectives of native city-states, allying with or ceding authority to Spain just seemed like a normal part of the Mesoamerican realpolitik game of working with other states to take out rival powers and cediding to the more powerful ones while keeping your independence, and you even see them do stuff like giving key Conquistadors wives and daughters as an attempted political marriage; or such as how Montezuma allowed Cortes into the city since in Mesoamerican diplomacy, even enemy rulers and diplomats were permitted diplomatic housing and entry (which cortes exploited)

On the flip side, Spain was operating on their own imperialistic political norms, and just saw the native states and kingdoms and swearing fealty to the crown and now as subjects, and the attempted political marriages as offerings of concubines; leading to situations where both some Native states and Spain thought they were in charge of the same areas and those cities or towns paying tribute to both

Had Mesoamerican states actually understood european political norms and imperialism, they would have never ceded authority or allied with them to begin with

3/3

Reminds me of Red Alert 2. There was some ancient Mayan shit in some of those battles I'm pretty sure.

The thing you are thinking of is part of the semi-legendary story of how the Tenochtitlan got founded, where the Mexica of Tenochtitlan flayed the daughter of the king of the city of Colhuacan. The thing to remeber herje is that the story isn't nessscarily a factual account of how Tenochttlan was settled, but is more a justificaiton/allegory showing the Mexica going through various hardships: if you read the whole thing it basically has them going from place to place, being driven out (and including stuff with witches and soercery, again, semi legendary) and forced to settle on a shitty swampy island.

Even if we accept the account as truthful, the incident wasn't actually a wedding, and it's not like flaying people was a part of the wedding: The Mexica were rather asking for a person to act as a sacrificial victim, and the king of Colhuacan misunderstandings, thinking their are wanting a political marriage. The fact that the victim was being flawed also means it's likely a sacrifice to Xipe Totec, who was an established diety in the area, and as such the sacrificial ceremoney in question woul;d have been something that was common thtoru8hout the region, not something specific to the Mexica, Nahua, or "Aztec"

Pic related is another depiction of a wedding, though not chibi styled. Note how both in the chibi art and this art you have the husband and wife's clothing being tied to one another, which was a part of the ceremoney

Attached: Angus mcbride (3).jpg (1000x632, 372K)

resuming with attire, this showing a bunch of clothing from a variety of Maya cultures from different time periods as well as some Toltec ones. All of my attire images thus far have been from "Aztec" stuff, mostly Mexica but also some other Nahua groups.

Both this image and the last one are from Voyages de Alix volumes, while and are both by angus mcbride. is by Nosuku-K on deviantart, twitter, and pixiv; both angus and Nosuku have a lot of good stuff.

It's also important to rememeber that the Aztec and Maya are just two of many, many other Mesoamerican civilizations and groups. I'll point to the image in to get a taste of just how much there is, and even that's excluding a fuck ton.

What's being shown there is Aztec, not maya

Attached: maya attire.jpg (3264x2448, 1.47M)

Thread seems to have died down and it's late anyways and I need to go to bed, so I'll leave anybody still lurking with

deviantart.com/kamazotz , who specializes in art of Mesoamerican fashion. Pic related for instance is a giant collection of female hairstyles from the classical (200-800 AD) maya

Attached: maya_women_hairstyles_of_the_classic_period_by_kamazotz_d7v1kth.jpg (1500x5832, 3.43M)

Attached: Huemac.png (1228x2048, 2.31M)

The Vaal in path of exile are pretty much aztecs

Inca People

Attached: 0uVP7go.gif (266x420, 1.48M)

Thanks for the info user

Sounds like your average day at Mexico City.

Inca are litterally more geographically and culturally seperated from the Aztec as the Greeks were from Indians

ok nice whitewashing of slavers being the good guys try answering this then

why did the inca's voluntarily worship the aztecs?

World of Warcraft: Legion

also the catholic church literally used it as an opportunity to institute a caste system and induce slavery on the entire population once they took over so lol "aztecs were bad guys"

>this totally isn't a rewriting of history by the catholic church to look like the good guys for instituting literal slavery on a people who's entire folk lore and past history is them repeatedly fighting against the slavers and cannibals around them and winning so they had to do whatever they could to destroy their history so they would never be so inspired against their spanish "conquistadors"

Remember, history is written by the victors.

there is an aztec level but you just posted the egyptian one

ya a bunch of people in guatamala and the yucatan just totally worship the old gods for no reason and reject the salvation of the christian church even if they're baby eating skin flaying murderers

that and none of the critiques/truth have ever been translated from spanish because lol pope is infallible

way to cannonize a genocider

>always Mayan and Aztec mentioned and asked about
>never Inca
Fuck yall we actually wuz kangs
youtu.be/n809h6yf53E

They were slave owning, religious zealots that occasionally engaged in cannibalism, who's lineage is today famous for brutally murdering innocent people while mass producing drugs that lead to social decay.
Fuck them and their families to be honest.

PE2 had a, building?

>doesn't actually understand how the nahuatl religion works

>Giving a shit about the make believe nonsense of savages

What I care about is that the people today who behead children for refusing to run drugs for them and rape preteen girls for fun are only about 5 or 6 "grandma's and grandpas" away from people who would kidnap and sacrifice hundreds to thousands of people for good time on the weekend.

yes the catholic church does wonders for all the people it touches

>slave owning
"Slaves", as you think of them, didn't actually exist in Aztec society. Aztec slaves were closer to more like indentured servents, but even compared to indentutred servents in European culture retained way more rights: They could own, buy, and sell property, they could not be sold off without their consent, were required to be well fed and treated by their "owners", any childern they had were free men, they had to be paid for their work, and could buy their own freedom.

In fact, many people would sell themselves into slavery as a way to make quick money and then just buy themselves out of it once they could.

>religious zealots
They, like all ancient and medieval cultures, religion was a big part of their society, but they weren't "zealouts" in terms of persecuting others or spreading their faith: As I previously noted in the thread, the Aztec empire, like almost all Mesoamerican empires, did not directly govern their conquered cities or push laws or customs on them, aside from requiring they put up a shrine to Huitzilopotchli.

>engaged in cannibalism,
Yes, as part of specific religious contexts where an indivual being sacrifice was seen as the incarnation of the god thye were being sacrificed to, and specific people would ritualistically consume the flesh to take in the energy of the god, mirroring the process by which the gods gave themselves up to sustain the world and humanity and that humanity was sacrificing thewmselves to sustain the gods and the world. Outside of that context, cannablism did not take place.

In fact, it's almost IDENTICAL to the idea behind Communion in Christianity, and if you wanna take about Slave owning religious zealouts, then European Christians would be a good fit too. For future reference, if you want to actually make legitimate criticisms of Mexica society, then you should talk about them being warmongers and highly classist and repressive towards people going against social norms.

1/2

What are some good Egyptian games?

Attached: greetings.png (1342x539, 820K)

cont:

I was going to devote the second part of this to replying to , , and , but I'll reply to what you say in instead

>he people today who behead children....
I'm not mexican, or a spic at all, nor do I give a shit about or know anything about modern Mexico. So I don't have anything to say about this.

>away from people who would kidnap and sacrifice hundreds to thousands of people for good time on the weekend.

You are drastically overestimating the amount of people being sacririced, who got sacrificed, and how it happened. To begin with, people weren't "kidnapped" to be sacrificed. The largest demographic for people that were sacrificed, up to 75% going by some modern archeological studies, were enemy soldiers who, rather then being killed in battle, were captured and then sacrificed later. It makes 0 sense to treat these as a distinct group from casualities inflicted in battles to begin with.

Even putting aside the majority that were enemy soldiers, the Mexica did not raid other cities for people to sacrifice, or demand they give the mexica people to sacrifice: We literally have surviving Aztec tribute rolls, such as the Codex Mendoza, and across the tributary requirements for hundreds of cities and towns there's only a single reference to providing sacrifical victims ever being a requirement.

The idea that they were sacrificing hundreds of thousands of people in a few days is utterly fucking preposterous as well. Those sorts of numbers come from dubious sources and are disproven literally just by basic logic and math (see desuarchive.org/his/thread/5984763/#5984849) and even Cortes himself, who we already know as a fact to play up the barbarity of native religion, only claims they sacrificed 3000 people a year. In fact, those recent excavations I mentioned above indicate that thousands of people only got sacrificed over the course of MANY years, and

2/?, need more posts

Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

Attached: capsule_616x353.jpg (616x353, 79K)

Aztecs were fucking savages. Thank fuck the Spaniards came to conquer us.

And yes, im part aztec.

Mayans>Aztecs>Incas

cont:

In fact, here's some more math for you:

- Let's go with Cortes's already inflated total of 3000 people killed annually in Tenochtitlan.
- Other cities sacrificed a fraction of the amount of people as Tenochtitlan did, but let'e assume that all the other cities and towns ended up totalling to another 3000 annually as of the empire's maximum extent; even though as I said each city was it's own political entiity so it makes 0 sense to do this
- For most of the empire's history, the expanse of the empire was less then half it's maximum extent, but let's just use half it's maximum extent/population as an average, so make it 1500 a year for 100 years.
- Let's go with only 60% of them being enemy soldiers or criminals (since sacrifice was a sentence you could receive) rather then the 75% recent excavations indicate

Even using this sort of hyper-inflated math with high end assumptions, you get 180,000 civillians being sacrificed across the entire empire across it's entire history, which is STILL less then or only as much as a SINGLE religious purge/crusade in europe, namely the Albigensian Crusade, which killed 200,000 to 1 million people in southern France, and in only ONE FIFTH the amount of time the above math uses

So the idea that the Mexica, or fuck, the entire Aztec empire, were exceptionally violent or killing so many people compared to what other people at the time is doing is just utter horseshit.

3/?

see all of the responses above,

So I'm guessing a lot of them ran around naked like the Greeks?

brainlet
retard
incel

the neo atlas series

cont:

Moving away from who was getting sacrificed and how many, in terms of it "being for a good time": There was a whole bureaucratic system of religious officials, as well as a legal system with multiple levels of courts and judges.

Sacrificing somebody was not a trivial affair and there were strict requirements for who was or was not eligible for a specific ceremony, and how it could proceed and what was done during it: Using the primary sacrifice to Tezcatlipoca as part of the Toxcatl ceremponey as an example, the person being sacrificed needed to be domestic, a Mexica, and needed to be a paragon of both physical beauty and mental fitness. If your nose was slightly too big, you had any blemishes, your eyes were even a bit too far apart, etc, you weren't selected. Secondly, it required litterally an entire year of prep time: You, as the sacrifice, needed to become the god Tezcatlipoca, and were given lessons on your duties and the specoifics of the ceremoney, and lived your life learning, and roaming around the city as the god, receiviings blessings, doing dances, etc.

A month ahead of the ceremoney, you were ritually married to 5 women, and had to fast. Finally, you had to go on a pilgrimage to a series of 5 shrines, carrying the flames of each to the next and then finally the primary temple in Tenochtitlan, in which the sacrifice ceremoney took place, which could take hours and had specific incantations, dances, etc. The idea that this was something that could even POSSIBLY happen if the person in question was not a willing particpant is utterly insane. Obviously, nobody litterally WANTED to be sacriurficed, but the idea that people were being dragged kicking and screaming is horseshit. As is the idea that it was a spectacle, but was more akin to a funeral service.

4/?

This actually sounds pretty dope. I know Jack shit about mesoamerican history, culture, beliefs, or anything.

Is there any sorta books, movies, or anything you'd recommend to someone starting out?

women freeballin their tits because its hot

I wish there was a warhammer game set in Lustria

cont:

As I said, sacrifice was seen as giving ones self up to sustain others, and that death itself was viewed with horror and tepediation, with life and it's beuuities and wonder in nature and art being seen as sacred and important, but that life could not exist without death to sustain it, and as the person being sacrificed also as the god: the person being sacrificed was being both mourned as a person (even when it was an enemy soldier being sacrificed, which would be most of the time, the perspon who captured him would mourn him as a brother or family memeber, and indeed, in at least some cases the captive would be living with his captor for the weeks and months up to the sacrifice as a family memeber), and as the death of a god

Ironically, for example, the Aztec and Mesoamericans in general viewed the Spanish's actions as being not respecting life: They didn't capture incapacitated or defeated armies in battle to then honorably sacrifice later so they could help sustain the world, they just straight up murdered them. I, again, encourage you anons to read the desuarchive link I posted in , which talks about sacrifice, their moral ethics, theology, philsophy, etc

Oh, I also forgot to mention that the Mexica of Tenochtitlan were literally the only group doing mass scale sacrifices: And even then, the Mexica were exclusively mass sacrificing enemy soldiers (I already said that most sacrifices were enemy soldiers for them,75%), since the entire reason thew Mexica was more sacrifice happy then other groups was because their religion wasd re-wruitten to place a greater emphasis on needing enemy captures to sacrifice as to justify and encourage military expansion: and even then,m again, these mass sacrifices were in the scales of tens, maybe low hundreds, not thousands or let alone tens to hundreds of thousands: For other cities you';d be single single to maybe low double digits

5/?

cont:

So, in summary: Yes, they sacrificed people. But the idea that it was tens to hundreds of thousands of people annually, or that they were forcing other cities and towns into it, or that it was like a bloodport or something they viewed as anything but a sad nesscessity; or that it was any worse in either scale or nature to the religious wars and purges in europe or the middle east at the same time, is utter bullshit

Again, if you want to criticize the Mexica/Aztec, talk about their warmongering and need for military expansion (which, as I said, outright was why they did more sacrifice then other mesoamerican groups, it was a political ploy to justify their warmongering), their classism, and their social norms being restrictive to anybody who went against the grain.

I already talked about the slavery and IDK what the fuck you are talking about with the Inca, see I don't think anybody involved in Mesoamerican politics or the Spanish conquest were good guys or bad guys, that's simplistic. The Aztec were the domaiiant native political power and wanted to court the Spanish to help cement their rule. The various other city-states manipulated Cportes into helping them take out their rivals. Cortes was both manipulated by and manipulated those native states to take out the Aztec to give himself money and glory, so further his own career with the Spanish. The Spanish swooped in in the aftermath and exploited the situation to cement their power in the region and spread imperalism.

Everybody involved was just acting in their own interests, and commited both acroticies as well as good depending on the circumstance. All I'll say is I think it's a shame and a huge loss that native books, art, and literature were destroyed and we were deprived of the region turning out how Japan did, were peaceful cultural exchange and modrnization took place

6/6

the aztecs literally started a war to kill every other cannibal and slaver and pushed all the way until they reached a peaceful tribe, aka the Inca, and that is why the Inca worship the aztecs for doing the dirty work of clearing out middle america

but you wouldn't know that other than learning from historical revisionism, go ask a shaman dumbass

literally defending the guy who saw gold idols and took the king hostage and killed him over greed when invited to a peaceful festival

Hexen 2
Turok (not sure what type of native it's supposed to represent, but north Americans certainly didnt have sprawling temple complexes)

depends on the culture, of course: For the Aztec/Nahuas, kids would be naked or in breechclothes, women would mostly be in blouses or tunics called huipil, sometimes with an additional triangular mantlecloth worn on their shoulders, as you see in the images I posted; while men would either be in breechloths, or with that + a mantle worn in vairous ways depending on social class, sort of like a roman/greek toga.

I know less about the Maya, and even less about the Mixtec, Zapotec, Purepecha, etc. There's quite a few books though written about mesoamerican clothing, attire, and fashion, and as I said, Kamazotz on Deviantart specializes in it and he'd likely be willing to andswer questions, he also has a twitter. He lurks /his/ too.

See the last link I post in ; the mega and the reddit comment I link to in it have what you want

well, as of now the mega mostly just has book scans, but I'll be uploading my collection of art there eventually; I dumped some rars of art I had in the same thread as the post with the mega link too, but I have way more stuff now that's not in those rars. Just keep checking the mega

Or if you want, email me at my throwaway, [email protected], and I'm happy to talk 1 on 1, share any book scans or images I have. Goes for both you as well as ;

I mean obviously you won't be doing combos THAT insane in normal gameplay because there's multiple enemies on screen, it's just an example of how complex the combat system is. Enemies aren't actually in hitstun that long, either, pulling that off isn't easy, and the person in the webm is using tech to make the animations for weapon switching shorter.

bro the Inca and Aztec didn't even know each other existed, I don't know what sort of conspiracy theory shit you are tal;king about.

I'm not defending anybody. Cortes was a greedy sociopath, obviously. But history doesn't have good guys and bad guys

>but north Americans certainly didnt have sprawling temple complexes

Not made of stone, but look up the Misssipsians, they had basically just become a full civilization before they got fucked by collapses, and then before they could recover europeans showed up and diseases wiped them out.

Native groups in the southwest US had protocitie and some early class systems as well.

Attached: Cahokia.png (1022x1552, 2.73M)

The soul is off the charts.

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OP said Aztec and Maya, so Mesoamerican cultures

The Inca are from a completely different cradle of civilization with their own indepedent history.

There is Loki (sometimes with the subtitle "heroes of mythology"), a hack'n'slash with mayan levels and mayan priestess as one of the playable characters.

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>It makes 0 sense to treat these as a distinct group from casualities inflicted in battles to begin with
By this logic, you could say that Soviet POWs dying in captivity during and after the German push on Eastern Front were basically "casualties of war"
Yeah, sure, different culture, different consequentialist approach
But fucking hell:
>Codex Mendoza
>Aztec
Pick one
>thousands of people only got sacrificed over the course of MANY years
While estimates vary, but even Hernán Cortés acknowledging 3k sacrifices a year - it ain't a fucking low number. That's fucking 8.21 human sacrifices A DAY. And that's just one of the very lowest estimates today considered, while peaks may reach 80-100k a year
Just for comparison sake, Aztec Empire had population of around ~5 mil people spread wide and thin throughout the Mesoamerica. That's comparable to let's say HRE during the 11th-12th century. Yearly increase in population, IN FUCKING GERMAN REICH is around 7k-12k people
Go figure

Remember spending as much time as i could in the mystic ruins flashbacks, just running around.

True soul.

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sdsasad

>By this logic, you could say that Soviet POWs dying in captivity during and after the German push on Eastern Front were basically "casualties of war"

It's not the same since most of the people being captured and sacrirficed would have been people killed in battle on the spot or left to die in a ditch in european, middle eastern or asian warfare: Captive taking was done in situations were other cultures simply killed the enemy.

Not that Mesoamericans didn't fight pragmatic battles and didn't kill each other in battles, they did, but they sought to capture enemy soldiers alive when feasiblre and not tactically risky. They weren't only collecting captives in the same situations soldiers in medivial european armies or even modern armies captured POW's, it was more common then that.

>Pick one
Not sure what your implication is here. The codex mendoza may not have been written pre-contact, but it was made by Aztec people documenting their history and their tributary records.

> but even Hernán Cortés acknowledging 3k sacrifices a year - it ain't a fucking low number. That's fucking 8.21 human sacrifices A DAY. And that's just one of the very lowest estimates today considered, while peaks may reach 80-100k a year
Just for comparison sake, Aztec Empire had population of around ~5 mil people spread wide and thin throughout the Mesoamerica.
See the rest of my replies, I talk about all of this and get into the math. Nobody takes the 80k to 100k a year figures seriously and for good reason. They are logistically impossible, as I explain in desuarchive.org/his/thread/5984763/#5984849, and are directly contradicted by archjeological findings: even cortes's 3000 a year are.

Anyways user I need to go to bed, if you wanna talk further, you can email me at my throwaway, [email protected]

>slave owning
While you're actually right when it comes to the sort of semi-voluntary and "respectful" servitude, unlike the for example corvée in Europe, pretty much compared to some of the systems in Ancient Egypt, you're describing only one form of "slavery" in Aztec Empire. The "conventional" slaves were a thing as well, when it comes to disposable, unpaid, owned human work force
>comparing eucharist to eating flesh of a human sacrifice
You're taking it too literally user. Like the daft Aztecs half a millenia ago, when they fairly easily turned to depraved version of their pagan religion mixed with christianity. Just consider today cults, sects and whatever branches of domestic religions in Latin America

A YEAR you idiot. A YEAR, not a day, you rampant twit
Jesus, the reading comprehension

Tomb Raider 1, first levels.

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Playing Lizardmen in Total War : Warhammer2

Yeah, you shouldn't defend yourself against other tribes.

Oh wait, that's why they had nice architecture.

Bro every village had a massacre temple where blood-matted long haired priests regularly sacrificed rival Indian tribesmen. They had a fatalistic obedience to the augury derived in human sacrifice of their priestly caste. Read pic if you haven't.

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You're either really bad in basic math and not grasping properly real world concepts turned into math, or you are intentionally lying. I'm gonna go with the option 1., under the presumption of innocence
Gonna go with the second highest figure; 80k sacrifices a year, like you've misused
80 000 human scrifices / 365 days a year = 219.18 sacrifices per day
219.18 sacrifices per day / 24 hours a day = 9.13 sacrifices per hour
9.13 sacrifices per hour / 60 minutes per hour = 0.152 sacrifice a minute
0.152 sacrifice a minute / 60 seconds per minute = 0.00254 sacrifice per second
No offence, but I actually hope that you're actually going full Stormfag, cuz being this inept with THIS BASIC math hurts me to the core

Theocracy. A game from 2000, seemed to play like a mix between province management and RTS (I forgot how that genre is called).

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>mfw try to play Returning
>EN translation is terrible
>dont want to deal with RU text/voice

Arghhh

Nope.

this game is tight

Again, send me an email at email I mentioned: You are obviously willing to have an actual conversation, and I respect and appreciate that, so I do want to continue with you, but it's 5am here and I need to sleep

They weren't "tribesmen" or villages: they were city-states, like in ancient greece: They had monumental archtecture, palaces, temples, plazas,formal goverments with bureaucratic civil offices, courts, judges, legal systems, etc. In terms of population sizes it's comparable to ancient greece as well, the average city had a population of 15k people, with larger ones hitting 30k to 50k and the absoute largest 100k to 200k.

Simply because did sacrifice does not necessarily make them abnormally violent: Europe and the Middle east had beem emrodled in religious wars and purges were people were killed and systematically oppressed for religipous reasons, it's not as if killing somebody for your god is any worse then kiling somebody for worshipping another god.

I''ve already delved into specific numbers and practices in the thread, see my other replies and responses throughout it, such as the 6 comments in the chain here, ; the 3 here , etc

Also, Bernal Diaz's account has issues. It's an invaluable source and isn't something to be dissmissed entirely, but Diaz talks about events he couldn't have witnessed and has his own agendas and biases, as did Cortes, and, in fairness, native authors. You should not JUST read his account, but compare both his, Cortres's, and the accounts by nativew authors and spanish firars and compare and contras the information they give, as well as agaibnst archeological findings. Pic related gives a good example of this.

I also find it funny that you talk about Diaz's account but then talk about villages and tribesmen when Diaz talks at length about the size and majesty of variouys cites, such as Itzapalapa and Tenochtitlan.

Attached: Cortes Quetzalcoatl debunk.png (459x2006, 720K)

ALso I will note that I previously have actually changed my stance and opinions on things in replies to anons questioning my assessments before, so it's not like you emailing me will nessscarily just be my argueing against you and that's it, depending on what your points are.

Alright, last comment from me, I am heading to bed for real now. I should have already but i'm a faggot loser with no self control.

I leave you all with this painting of a canal in tenochtitlan

In case you are also wondering "well why are you taking Diaz's accounts about the majesty of the cities at face value but not the barbarity of the sacrifical practices"

The city population figures, size, and archtecture is backed up by other accounts as well archeoilogical figures, generally speaking. LIDAR scans continue to find that Mesoamerican cities had larger populations and more complex interconnected hydraluic systems then we prreviously thought: this past year we've had our esti,mates for the Classicval Maya population triple due to essentially finding that hundreds of square miles of jungle surronding urban centers were actually spawls of suburbs back in the day, for example; and we have tons of surviving huge ruins and traces of fine murals, frescos, etc, as well as a few well preserved ones.

The same is not true for huge scales of sacrifice: Cortes and Diaz gives examples of mass sacrificial figures and sadistic practices, as due a few other conquistadors, but Spanish firars's and native sources, while adknolweiding sacrifice occurs, gives much lesser numbers generally (ironically, in some cases, HIGHER numbers, but only when talking about the practices of cities and ethniuc groups they hates and were enemies with). It's also not backed up by archeological data: The highest number of bodies we've found in sacrificial offerings at once up untill recently was only in the low double digfits, and the finfdinds from this past year in the primary skull rack of the Aztec captial, while housing thousands of skulls, only held thousands in total across many years, possibly decades (sadly haven';t been able to find the formal paper yet to get exact numbers, I only have articles in various science and antrhpopoligcal websites to go off of so far)

Attached: Teopan canal in Tenochtitlan (Aztec Captial), Scott and Stuart Gentling.png (1576x1133, 2.65M)

For future reference, that shit is not worth mentioning.

Yume Nikki

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The La-Mulana games have many references to Mesoamerican mythology.

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age of empires

Only a pussy would care about this.

the opening 1/3 of Serious Sam 2nd Encounter. game is based and boomerpilled

>warmongers and highly classist and repressive
Between you and the cuck you're arguing with, these poor Aztecs can't get a fair shake.

Aztec/Mayan architecture was kino

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Yes m8. A couple more of them are nice, too. Slavs come to mind

based

not aztec user but I have some art he's posted before of aztec architecture

what you posted and how it's often shown doesn't do it justice, there was paint, stucco, etc covering it

Attached: Montezuma's Palace besides the city center (off to the right), in Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capti (1200x800, 323K)

I mean, he obviously thinks the Aztec are really cool and is willing to defend them when they get unfairly shit on, so I doubt he's "not giving them a fair shake". Even romaboos will admit that rome had a corrupt goverment, etc

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i remmeber that centipede scared the crap outta me. gonna replay this on my ps3 soon.

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jesus i have a highschool understanding of mesoamerican history and even I can tell the fucking obvious catholicized shit

aztecs were the good guys, their enemies were slavers, and if it wasn't for cortes using biological warfare and allying with the slavers getting their shit pushed in mesoamerica would be its own country

so, you're telling me all of this was filled with like 5 million soldiers and they all just mysteriously died to smallpox even though it requires direct contact to spread and the aztecs has aquaducts and medicine?

nope doesn't sound like intentional biological warfare at all

Attached: View of Tlatelolco, Tenochtitlan (the Aztec captial), Scott and Stuart Gentling GUESSWORK COLOR CORR (2034x1374, 3.97M)

wtf is this thread, is there two aztecfags now?

>ancient aztecs had medicine
>medicine to cure smallpox

get a load of this guy

ya plagues and shit weren't exactly unknown so isolating people would be standard, the only difference was the rate of spreading and that indicates something more than just face to face contact

Why the FUCK would you play the shitty PS3 version. Fucking moron.

.

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last bit of Aztec art I have saved from him, and I only have 1 piece of art of maya archtecture from him

wish I had saved more

nah, I just have some art of his that he posted i'm dumping

Attached: View of the central ceremonial city plaza in the Aztec captial of Tenochtitlan, Scott and Stuart Gen (1668x1174, 1.36M)

some of you should learn the nahuatl religion, it would bring balance to your life

earth defense force

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and the one maya one

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duality of man

I like to make women happy and do nice things

I also like to bring torture and pain to my enemies

Timesplitters 2 - Aztec Ruins

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a bunch of dumbass hippies came to mexico and found a religious excuse to do drugs to find enlightenment, which, isn't exactly wrong but not the point

yup pretty much

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/María_Sabina

a bunch of new age hippie bullshit and old grandma shamans are the only vague teachers of the religion/philosophy

southpark.cc.com/clips/152130/commercial-break

i find it funny goths basically practice the nahuatl philosophy of appreciating all aspects of life unintentionally

>goths started in 1920s mexico with victorian death fashion
>goth lolita becomes a thing from the book lolita or whatever
>american goths start counter culture of going against the nice and pretty catholice/christian everything must be white and nice
>emos appear and glorify being sad and shit
>gothic lolitas appear in japan because they also sexualize children even though in mexico they sexualize 13-14 year olds and in japan its like 8-12 year olds

reminder aztecs and mayans and probably olmecs had recognition of gays and female equality like 4000 years before christianity

check out "Aztec Philsophy: Understanding a World in motion" and "Aztec thought and culture", just keep in mind it's a modern analysis of our existing sources rather then the sources of actual Nahuas/aztecs directly, so it can be a bit post-moderny, in the same way an analysis or cirticism of modern american culture is extrapolative rather then directly necessarily reflecting the conscious, direct belifs of most people

Nah

Gay people and women probably had it better then in europe at the time, since it probably wasn't something you'd get burned at the stake over for most cultures there, and women and men were viewed with dualism and as an important part of society , but being gay was still viewed poorly and abnormal and womeneven if they couldn't hold military office or hold as much political power (though there were exceptions, we know some limited examples of Maya queens and warlords, and women could hold at least some of the lower and mid level religious offices);

they literally have a god for adultery and gays

Ys: VIII

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t. seething Aztec

also women had their own independent roles, nothing in the aztec religion or society induces their role as a baby maker and forcing it on them would go against the entire philosophy they believed in of consent and individuality
hence
>examples of Maya queens and warlords, and women could hold at least some of the lower and mid level religious offices

really testing my patience to not make every decision from anger

>mesoameriaboo
He's known as the aztec autist on /his/, he can be allright when hes not going on his autistic offended rants and at least knows his stuff instead of crying >muh civilization potential

Is it, though? Reminded me more of something like Angkor Wat, which is neither Aztec nor Mayan.
Might have a wrong impression here, though.

I don't know, man. It looks old, blocky and has a lot of turquoise.

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