Who was in the wrong here?

you for participating in this mess

That's basically the sole perennial question of the series.

just differences in opinion bro.
Kaathe seems to be a regular primordial serpent, while Frampt is kind of weird and buys into the whole Gywn plan.

esoteric satanism

Correct.
>but it's so fun
Correct.

Lol does kaathe actually advocate death of civilisations? Isn't the dark ideally suppose to bring humanity together?

>hey ring those two bells, one of which is behind the demon form of an old and powerful witch because my family had this weird rumour

they're retarded

iirc it's heavily implied he was a main driving force of oolacile going to shit

Sure but ds3 I think makes you want to side with kaathe. But he may have been misguided about how much humans can handle the dark.

one of them needs more firewood, the other one wants to corrupt humanity further.

Need to snuff out the individual lights of society to unite humanity within the dark.
communism analogue
The other head of the same snake wants to preserve the hierarchy of the Age of Fire.
:thinking:

And new londo obviously.

>Isn't the dark ideally suppose to bring humanity together?
sure...i guess....as awful bloatheaded monsters

Well all we know for sure is that manus went mad due to his humanity becoming g wild which is the source of the abyss and the dark is in turn the source of humanity. But kaathe did seem to be in contact with manus. Then again, the sable church in Ds3 I think I is supposed to make you feel like he was right but he overestimated what humans can handle and probably hoped manus would succeed in handling his dark shit.

I'm under the impression that kaathe manipulated Gwyn to sacrifice himself for reasons unclear. Because it's not really like Gwyn saved anything, he just burned good and kept the curse of undeath going for a while longer.

Basically one head brings destruction of civilization through anarchy, the other wants humanity to go hollow.

Does dark corrupt you? Are ya sure user?

Where did it ever say that the dark ending has to go and snuff out the kings and dukes of other societies? There is one kiln for the whole world.

That's the abyss tho. When we misuse the dark. I think hollows (not hungry bois but serene sprites) is the natural state of man. That happens in ds3 when we are ready to accept the dark.

but Gywn linked the flame to prolong the age of Fire, Kaathe wants the first flame to die out so the age of Dark

>Does dark corrupt you? Are ya sure user?
Yes, both oolacile and new londo fell to the dark. New londo was flooded to try to keep the darkwraiths away.

yeah sorry, I had the names backwards. Frampt is the one in firelink.

It was frampt that wants gwyn and the chosen undead to light the flame. And iirc doing so actually dispenses the curse rather than spreads it. Until the fire fades of course.

Why anarchy? Frampt was advisor to lord gwyn.

>you know what you guys need? immigrants

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But the darkwraiths and oolacile fell to the abyss. It is sketchy as to what Is the right answer here but it is suggested the abyss is mostly inevitable side effect of the dark, but in ds3 you can have the dark without the abyss. It is mad humans that create the abyss. If they are serene they turn into sprites.

Oolacile and New Londo are two different societies already in DS1, even if they are close in proximity.

DS3 Ringed City DLC clearly displays all of the fallen societies collapsing into each-other in the abyss. It is never stated there is one kiln, and there are clearly several societies throughout time based on the sole fact that DS1-3 exist.

the dark with no fire sucks bro, don't believe in Kaathe's lies.
#Gywndidnothingwrong

>advisor and backstage man to a European medieval king
>slippery character
>weird shit dangling from his temples
>big nose
Fuckin (((frampt)))

I'm going to be honest with you, I just disregard dark souls 2 and 3 when it comes to this completely. They obviously just built on to the concepts, they hadn't mapped out things for the sequels.

I don't even remember why nashandra wanted to kill you in dark souls 2, that games story was all over the place.

kaathe is the one who is pro anarchy. end the age of gods and just let the dark spread.

to rule the world ofcourse

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Yeah I know they are separate. As for the collapse, they are collapsing into the abyss, not the dark. The abyss is shown to be the overgrown of wild humanity which usually happens in the dark but it isn't the same thing g and isn't inevitable. You can embrace the dark with embracing the abyss.

As for the kiln, it is the kiln of the first flame.
>first
You cant have two of those.

The Oolacile denizens drove Manus mad, themselves. Kaathe l i t e r a l l y has done nothing wrong, and by the time we get to III we see how right he is.

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>I just disregard dark souls 2
That's understandable I....
> and 3
bro

3 is super derivative when it comes to story, especially with the DLCs. I like the game but the story is so diluted at this point I'm not even gonna bother making connections to ds1.

Even I like III but it really blueballs on things like the Deep, and everything else interesting it introduces. There's also the glaring retcon of the first Pygmy having waited before creating humanity, whereas DSIII shows us that humans fought alongside Gwyn against the dragons.

Well the parts most praised from ds2 is the scholar additions like aldia. And with the ds3 getting much more like the original I think the story seems to rise and fall with miyazaki. For that it seems that ds3 is fairly reliable. I think it was mature enough that the idea of the choice not mattering was in his mind all along.

But he wants you as a dark lord of all the world. He seems to think he can be your grimace worm tongue and help bring in a long and stable world.

Based Rothschild poster

I don't think anything about kaathe seems to suggest he wants a stable world. He is the chaos option while frampt is the lawful one.

From for never letting you stab them to death across TWO sequels.

They drove him mad? Is this true? I though it was a risky byproduct of the dark to get swallowed by the abyss?

How do we see he is right by 3?

Frampt is a fool and a coward. Kaathe isn't about chaos, Oolacile brought the Abyss upon itself.

>You can embrace the dark
and let the feast begin?! huh!?
fuck off locust preacher! you won't eat me!

Gough dialogue: "I suspect thou hast taken a gander at it, But the Dark of the Abyss, which swallowed poor Artorias, threatens to devour our entire land of Oolacile. It seems that this dire fate is unavoidable. But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no, They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad. …One's demise is always one's own making."

And new londo. How does it keep happening?! Poor kaathe, he had no intentions of corrupting those kings. God damn antisnakeites.

He literally has him and a bunch of heretofore unseen serpents now to you and say you will rule the coming age of dark. He is just like frampt who wanted gwyn to rule forever as God king except kaathe wants you to rule in the dark.

>How do we see he is right by 3?
Untold time of linking the fire has led the world to ruin.
I have a huge headcanon thing about New Londo and Kaathe, but it's just that, headcanon.

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Is there anything that really separates the player character's origin in any DS? Like, having played about 10 hours of each, I can't tell the plots apart. Can you guys give me one sentence for each game that explains how the plots of each game are different?

frampt's a stinky breath bitch, going with kaathe puts you nearer to learning the deep lore behind the name of the game

>He literally has him and a bunch of heretofore unseen serpents now to you and say you will rule the coming age of dark.
And it is seemingly not the first time, or the second he's tried this. Kaathe clearly has ulterior motives, everything we've seen of the dark in ds1 is that it has corrupted and razed cities. He teaches you to steal the humanity from other people making them hollow and rewards you for this. How is he pro humanity?

its not headcanon that the kings of new londo were introduced to the dark and it corrupted them, that's in the game.

I just realized how Jewish these fuckers are:

>lying subversive serpents
>all joined together with one body, could an allegory for the covenant of Mt. Sinai
>pretend to be on different sides but are working for themselves
>want to perpetuate an endless cycle of suffering instead of overcoming it

>DaS
A false prophecy encourages Undead to throw themselves at the First Flame to further propagate the age of gods.
>DSII
The curse of the Undead that manifests when the First Flame fades pulls Undead to Drangleic to throw themselves at it.
>DSIII
The FF has been linked so many times that it is pulling ages together and trying to fuel itself.

fucking thank you, i wasn't born smart enough to figure it out

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I mean specificities that I bet From didn't even consider when writing certain lines. The fact that DLC makes a large point to tell you
>Look, Kaathe told Oolacile about Manus, but THEY fucked everything up.
paints New Londo in a new light on whether or not Kaathe really had much to do with their downfall.

I wish, what I would give to be that good looking.

Is he not speak in generalities, as in the dark was a gift from kaathe but they fucked it up? If not, how can you summon the abyss without it?

What are you suggesting about kaathe user? That he is some kind of (((underhanded corrupter of his host society)))?

But DS2 has nothing to do with the first flame. Once you get the throne of want, nothing changes, but you get to rule a dying world in which barely anyone recognize you, only fora new ruler to come along and have the cycle repeat again.

>Is he not speak in generalities, as in the dark was a gift from kaathe but they fucked it up? If not, how can you summon the abyss without it?
No, it is about Manus and how Oolacile fucked up. Here's Chester dialogue which further cements it:
>Believe it or not… Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself. Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath. What could they have been thinking?
The descriptions of certain dark sorceries in DaS also talk about how Oolacile did shit to Manus.

Isn't it true that Gwyn was just delaying the inevitable by kindling the first flame? Wasn't the curse of the undead caused because Gwyn kindled the first flame? Following that logic, I have to side with Kaathe. Then again only played the first game so I'm not sure.

Doesn't that just mean that this is what happens when the dark comes to man? Regardless of what kaathes intentions are, it clearly goes bad every time. And I dont think the serpents are the kind of creatures who would make mistakes like that.

>Once you get the throne of want, nothing changes
Because it'd be redundant to show the player character burning like in the first game.
>You, who link the fire, you, who bear the curse…Once the fire is linked, souls will flourish anew, and all of this will play out again. It is your choice…To embrace, or renounce this… Great Sovereign, take your throne. What lies ahead, only you can see.
It's the game saying "link the fire, or don't, but we don't have to show you a cutscene because the first game did that." And you know that's ash all around the throne, right?

What is Manus exactly? All I know is that he was a primordial human whose humanity went berserk or something. Also, (and I know it's explained very vaguely) what is humanity?

Fair enough, I personally thing the dark also always failed but that is due to men not being about to handle their shit.

You aren't the first cos dark lord are unseated by new chosen undead. That's canon. The dark doesn't raise cities, the abyss does. As for hollows, it is heavily indicated that hollows are the natural state of men and that the abyss rises when our humanity goes wild because we get hollow but hunger for souls and that (in the lord of hollows ending) we can live serenely as hollows if we dont play the rat race for souls. It can work out theoretically.

Another question: what is the age of dark and why is it feared? Is feared just on the basis that it's unknown?

>the abyss does.
Where you meet kaathe. Where he resides. Really makes you think.

>Doesn't that just mean that this is what happens when the dark comes to man?
Not so, because the player character doesn't have to go mad to get the Dark Lord ending.
DSIII tells us that he may or may not have been from the Ringed City. Outside of DSIII, he may or may not have been the first human.

Frampt and Kaathe merely want to make their side the winning side (Gods vs. Humans respectively). For that, they're working to their own ends. Neither are technically wrong in the sense that they're misguided.

Kaathe is the right choice for humanity, so Frampt is the 'wrong' choice. Kaathe wants to make humans the ruling power so that he is powerful by proxy. The problems that befell Oolacile weren't due to Kaathe, nor were they Kaathe's intention.

>t. Kaarthe

Are they actually all attached by a single body? Is that canon?

You also have to remember it was the greedy soul grabbing of the four kings with the darkhand that lead to NLs corruption. It is heavily suggested that the dark is not what leads to monstrosities and evils but when the dark leads to man's endless want and greed. Manus was driven mad by want for his pendant and the kings by want for souls and earthly power.

I wonder who could be behind this post

Hes the leader of the dickwraiths.

>Not so, because the player character doesn't have to go mad to get the Dark Lord ending.
There is nothing to suggest he wouldn't. But there is enough examples to suggest that it is plausible that he would.

Ingward was down in New Londo for who knows how long, and he was cool.

>You also have to remember it was the greedy soul grabbing of the four kings with the darkhand that lead to NLs corruption. It is heavily suggested that the dark is not what leads to monstrosities and evils but when the dark leads to man's endless want and greed. Manus was driven mad by want for his pendant and the kings by want for souls and earthly power.
Having gone through this before, kaathe is clearly aware of the outcome, as he has seen before. Kaathe introducing the corrupting element to man is just like the snake introducing adam and eve to the forbidden fruit.

which console version of dsremastered is the least dead?
I've played ps4 and its a ghosttown

refuse to play pc because literally ever invader is some twinked out nigger or hacking

anyone play on switch or xbone?

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Well they did flood the entire city to keep them away and he is there to stand guard to make sure it stays flooded.

Frampt wants the gods to stay in power, so he takes actions that ensure that (Making humans immolate themselves in the First Flame so that the gods' age continues). To think that Frampt is right is wanting humanity to be subjugated by the gods.

In Dark Souls 3 you were supposed to fight them as the final boss by giving a token Gwyn gives you to the Soul of Cinder and overcome the cycle of light/dark which then leads to eternal nothingness.

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>There's a orange soapstone message by Firelink Shrine bonfire
>It says "Bonfire"
>Has Frampt rating
For what purpose

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But then he also made Gwyn sacrifice himself to keep the fire going, so I'm not sure he is on the gods side either. In some way, he is manipulating gwyn just as much.

Was it floating a bit higher than other messages? Sounds like a hacked message.

Cool that's clearer now thanks user.

Yes it is but the problem is if you become the dark lord under kaathe then you will be unseated by a new kindler. So really ds3 was important as it showed that the fire eventually reaches a point where all the souls in existence cannot kindle the flame and dark is inevitable. But then it's still up for debate about what that means for humans.

No it isn't inevitable as the lord of hollows ending for III means that it is possible to embrace the dark with the right structure and lead humanity to their true destiny which is to live In the dark as hollows, just not the hollows that are driven mad by want. Essentially they are flexing on the Japanese zen buddhism teachings that the dark lord comes back and teaches us all how to get enlightened so we can live in peace.

>No it isn't inevitable as the lord of hollows ending for III
derivative, different game.

Iirc humanity is the thing that is a manifestation of the dark(?) And is characterised by want. Not bad by itself but can be when let loose hence why oolacile and new Londo went to shit.

>A Frampt rated message underneath a box by the fog gate where you fight the armored boar
>"Secret"

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I suppose that's true, but it's just as possible that he steels himself and becomes a great ruler. Depends on your outlook.
That was always bullshit. Pontiff was the final boss before he got moved to Irithyll.

Even if you accept that Gywn was told to sacrifice himself by Frampt (Which I don't think there's dialogue to support that in-game), keeping the First Flame going is supporting the Age of Light (Gods), which goes against the Age of Dark(Humans). There were a hell of a lot more gods than just Gwyn's family, so telling Gwyn to sacrifice himself doesn't mean Frampt wants to overthrow the gods, it just means he wants the Flame to keep going.

If that was the case one of them would be hanging upside down.

Fair point, but I think that the abyss spreads only when humanity becomes out of control. The 4 kings were in that abyss because they lusted for souls. Manus was in a pocket of the abyss because he lost his pendant.

The age of dark is supposed to be the age of man. Ruled without gods. Its feared by the gods as man can rule without them and feared by some humans as the abyss is what happens when the dark arrives but mankind let's their want and desire go uncontrolled.

Look, it's better just to admit that they clearly have their own agenda that we mere mortals can barely understand, and that whatever the outcome of any player decision (link the fire, or not to link the fire) they win anyway.

Got a long enough joint there Rick?

like the jews

What would the Age of Dark resemble? Just a bunch of miserable hollows groaning and shit?

bloodborne without elder gods

Not true, kaathe is not necessarily "aware" of said outcome. It could be that men simply fuck up each time. As for introducing corrupting elements, I think it is clear that the dark is fi e and the abyss is bad, and the abyss comes from mans want and desire (manus wants the pendant and 4 kings want souls). If that is true, the abyss pops up thanks to the man that cant handle kaathes gift. He is guilty only of giving us too much to chew.

>playing for multi rather than the kino Christian story of redemption and self sacrifice in a world steeped in otherwise irredeemable sin.
Wut?

There used to be more gods, gods that frampt asked you to kill for their souls. That is kind of odd, doesn't seem like he is interested in the best outcome for the gods, only to keep the fire going. The age of light might have something else that frampt is after that is not related to the gods being in power.

> that we mere mortals can barely understand
Wtf? Frampt drank the kool-aid and wanted the gods to continue ruling. To do so requires unscrupulous means and a shepherding of humans to the point that they would listen to a false prophecy and link the fire themselves. Kaathe sees through the bullshit and tells you the truth.

switch is pretty dead, only got invaded once in NG also the audio quality sucks, don't get it

Literally the same director finishing his story makes it more than acceptable as canonical. If miyazaki wants the time to pass to show how the fire could not be kindled forever he would have to have reserved it for a new game.

No that's the age of fire

The only reason Frampt wants you to kill the Gods he tells you to are because they hold pieces of the Lord Soul needed to open the door to the Kiln of the First Flame.

PS3.

Miyazaki also makes it so humans fought alongside Gwyn against the dragons, whereas lines in Dark Souls tell us that the pygmy waited before birthing humanity.

>Not true, kaathe is not necessarily "aware" of said outcome. It could be that men simply fuck up each time.
Why do you think he is a snake as opposed to a person or a more innocent creature that is not symbolism for scheming and having ulterior motives? Insinuating that he just isn't aware and it's not his fault is kind of ridiculous, how much of a fuck up is he if that is the case?

It's like he's one of those "doooooh I messed up again! I'm such a fuck up!" characters if that was the case, and that seems very unlikely.

He corrupts the heart of man. He has seen the outcome before, he lives at the bottom of the ruins of one of them and spreads the same teachings to you that made that city fall, prompting you to follow in their footsteps and be another darkwraith.

Complete darkness like the abyss

The artist, for designing that abomination

Only Nito is a god. Izalith became chaos, and the Four Kings are humans in the process of becoming angels/ Seath is...a dragon.

Why does this lore have pretentious shit lore? There are a myriads of ways to tell lore besides retarded half assed item descriptions that give no context or depth to what happened, compare that to a quest complete or book you can read in game.

Interesting. How much can we trust the items and their descriptions though?. As characters all have conflicting views on issues, surely that shield could be wielded by cultists who thought the snakes were running some conspiracy and were all controlled opposition? And what about the 20 sneks in the dark lord ending? They all on kaathes ass?

it's a good design, the only problem is that the tooth grinding sounds don't quite match the animation

Do you think these two shits fuck with humans too feel more powerful since they're imperfect dragons? Assuming the serpents died, wouldn't there still be some remaining corrupting force or entity? Going by dark souls 3, there were angels at one point that visited the kingdom. Who were the angels, what were their goals, and why did they introduce dogshit miracles?

What does the ringed city DLC dark have in common with the ds1 dark? It's pretty derivative, and it's very clear that miyazaki didn't plan that far ahead, he wasn't even in on dark souls 2 and certainly would have been for 3 if they didn't fuck up 2 either.

If he writes one story in 2011 that is meant to be a standalone, and then decides to come back in 2016 to add on to the story, there is obviously going to be inconsistencies. It is derivative. It's not a continuation of a story, it's just different scenario because they needed to make more dark souls for money.

>only got invaded once
I would almost prefer that to getting fucked with in the undead berg by some faggot who ran to already ran to ash lake, cheesed the hydra and havel, and somehow got dark bead at sl4
switch version looking bretty gud right now

this is definitely a lie as ps3 was ded as fuck when i was playing it like 3 years ago

That's sort of what I meant earlier by my headcanon. The game makes it clear Oolacile brought the Abyss upon itself, but it's less clear with New Londo. I feel like Kaathe got tired of waiting and simply gave the Four Kings the art of lifedrain because he knew human nature from the Oolacile incident would be to covet as much humanity as they could, which is exactly what transpires before New Londo gets sealed.

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Does humanity ever get an era where things aren't an absolute hellscape?

>Pontiff was the final boss before he got moved to Irithyll.
Pontiff was always the main antagonist. He just logically wouldn't have needed to be that strong.

Yeah, it's a shame. He was clearly meant to be fought where we fight Champion Gundyr, hence the black knights leading down from dark Firelink. Would've been kino.

Maybe Ds3 shows Miyazaki is a fucking hack who doesn't know how to properly construct and pace a narrative. How stupid do people have to be eating up shit written by a jap who read english books but with shit english skills and just filled the gaps he didn't understand with his retarded imagination.

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..no ? one of them can just make a turn and come from under

There are worse combinations, for instance chocolate and peanut butter.

Nah DSIII has lots of great narrative threads and ideas like breeding the perfect champion for the Flame. They simply fucked up and played it safe.

Nope, the entire cycle is endless suffering

jesus fuck das3 is so ugly

Touche. But there is a difference between shitty rehashed canon and the very central plot of the series, fire vs dark.

Well frampt keeps kindling that flame and it just leads to more people and societies springing up that will one day go hollow. How dumb is that?

Also I dont think he is totally trust worthy, hence being a snake. I think he is manipulating us but doing so to bring about a stable age of dark, the one the sable church is building with the lord of hollows ending. They serve kaathe but not by sniffing out the flame, but d
Setting you up to take the fire into you and become a real lord.

This is important as it's the first time kaathes plans changed, and it seems to work. This seems to me to mean he really was trying to gift us with the dark but he couldn't figure out how to do so without us fucking it up.

It's the coloring and lighting. It is incredible to me how much better this pre-release screenshot looks than anything in the final game.

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untended graves I guess, same world but no sun

There is more than two in the ending though.

>humans fought alongside gwyn
you mean the knights? i thought they weren't technically human?

imagine if dreg heap looked like this instead of the grey piece of shit we got

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Look how this thread exploded in no time. Made a million threads here and never got this much attention. People are super polarized too. This is the best lore ever. It's the whole point of open ended story telling.

What are these narratives based off of? Reddit theories? Half assed item descriptions? There's fuck all to properly connect anything to make a coherent plot

>Oolacile brought the Abyss upon itself.
By listening to Kaathe and unearthing the grave of primeval man. He literally told them to do it.

Did you even read that single line of dialogue?

If you don't want to be the slave of the gods then destroy the fire. If you are fine with eternal slavery and endless bootlicking hoping your master doesn't want to kill you on a whim then keep the fire alive like a good goyim

Also, why the fuck did Miyazaki introduce so much shit in dark souls 3? Its bad enough that there was the dark and the abyss which are separate entities. And then he fucking adds in the deep, which is just shinto/buddhist shit out of nowhere. Honestly, dark souls 3 should have expanded on the serpents and other leftover shit. The Astora beast, remaining gods other than the trap, Catarina Vinhiem, the Great Swamp(I dont think anyone would want this one tho), Thorolund etc.. DS1 had plenty of demons so maybe DS3 should have focused dark creatures or holy beings? I don't know, I feel like there is so much leftover shit that could have been expanded.

I should be asking you that:
>"I suspect thou hast taken a gander at it, But the Dark of the Abyss, which swallowed poor Artorias, threatens to devour our entire land of Oolacile. It seems that this dire fate is unavoidable. But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no, They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad. …One's demise is always one's own making."
>Believe it or not… Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself. Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath. What could they have been thinking?

Well I'd say, if I were giving him the benefit of the doubt, that maybe he didn't plan a sequel as it is not gonna be assured to sell enough to justify one. However if you make kino like ds1 and you get the chance to make more of it, you tend, if you are the artist miyazaki is, to try your best to flesh it out and do it justice.

Not sure which side you think you're proving here. This clearly proves that kaathes intentions are to trick man. Whether the character talking believes in a different set of ethics where actions weigh heavier than intentions is not really related, that's just subjective philosophy.

some vagueness is good but i'm very glad ds1's plot still has closure on a basic level, it's clear that you either keep the world limping along or you let it "die"

>The game makes it clear Oolacile brought the Abyss upon itself
Because Kaathe fucking told them to do it
>Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man
The game explicitly says Kaathe had them do it and fooled them, implying he knew exactly what would happen.

>There's fuck all to properly connect anything to make a coherent plot
Are you daft? The events leading up to the player coming back to life are painfully clear in DSIII. People have been linking the fire forever, including Aldrich, the Abyss Watchers, and Yhorm. Lothric wanted to create the perfect candidate to link the fire, resulting in a crippled and ill prince. Due to outside influences from the Pontiff, the prince refuses to link the fire. The First Flame then resurrects Aldrich, the Abyss Watchers, and Yhorm to link the fire. Each of them says "nah" and fucks off. The flame then wakes up people who failed to link the fire, and Lothric has concocted a "duty" that these unkindled ash must fetch the lords who refuse to fuel the flame.

Fear not the dark my friend, and let the feast begin.

he was a caveman wizard who got fucked with too hard by the locals until he became king kong

Whichever end defecates is the one full of shit, obviously.

It is absolutely right there, in plain language:
>But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no, They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad. …One's demise is always one's own making."
Ditto to you. Chester even echoes this:
> and incited his ornery wrath. What could they have been thinking?

Cringe

Incredibly cringe

Does the linking endings at least produce a period of gwyn tier peace and a break from undeath?

I am sympathetic to kaathe but by the words "folled by the toothy serpent, they unearthed..." sounds like he made them do that shit.

>I am sympathetic to kaathe but by the words "folled by the toothy serpent, they unearthed..." sounds like he made them do that shit.
Yes...I never denied that Kaathe said
>Dig up Manus
But the game makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Oolacile are the ones who made him pissed and shit Abyss.

Frampt is order, stability, preservation.
Kaathe is discord, entropy, ruin.

The chosen undead is the line that separates the two.

>It is absolutely right there, in plain language:
>>But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no, They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad. …One's demise is always one's own making."
Read what I wrote. Subjective ethics is not relevant to the objective actions. You are putting more weight on the people acting while being manipulated than you do on the manipulator. That's just subjective ethics about who you think should be blamed, it does not disprove that he manipulated anyone, in fact it proves that he did.

Isn't humanity getting engulfed in darkness just the natural order of things?

Why the fuck would the flame now start resurrecting people long dead? Isn't it just a curse that effects humans only? Huge inconsistency that doesn't line up at all from the first two games.

>But the game makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Oolacile are the ones who made him pissed
By digging up manus. They did what kaathe said and it fucked them. Sure, they were the ones who did it, but they would not have done it if kaathe didn't tell them to. How does this mean kaathe is trying to create a stable world? It clearly indicates the opposite.

Are you from a non-English speaking country?
>But, seduced by a Dark serpent or no
The acknowledgment that Kaathe had a hand in Oolacile digging up Manus.
>They awoke that thing themselves, and drove it mad
>and drove it mad
When talking to the player, Kaathe never asks you to do anything sadistic. He just wants you to kill the old guard and let the flame go out. It's not in his character to sit, cheerleading the Oolacilians
>YEAH, YEAH SHOVE IT UP HIS ASS TOO!

I think mostly what anons talking about is kinda bullshit but maybe it's the flames defense mechanism to keep its existence going since the chosen ones didn't lit the fire

If he defecate he is out of shit. It's the want that cannot shit that is full of it.

This can be read either way. If he seduced them, he wanted them to do it. Chester is just saying they are the ones who should feel guilty. He isn't claiming kaathe came with good intentions. If I trust a jew with my money and he embezzled it, I am to blame. Doesn't mean the jew wasn't out to get me from the start.

>Why the fuck would the flame now start resurrecting people long dead?
Because the lords it resurrected don't want to link the fire.
>Isn't it just a curse that effects humans only?
Unkindled Ash are people who failed to link the fire, they aren't Undead.
>is kinda bullshit
You are literally saying what I said just shorter.

He flat-out says Kaathe tricked them and fooled them, end of fucking story, there's no ambiguity about that whatsoever.

Chester is sarcastic.
>What could they have been thinking?
Is a rhetorical question. They were thinking that Kaathe wasn't fucking lying to them, that's what they were thinking.

This, he tricked them, no ifs ands or fucking buts.

This unironically would have been kino as fuck if it was after the soul of cinder as like a king allant style epilougue boss but actually hard.

But why would kaathe want him dug up in the first place? He is clearly a ticking time bomb that way. He may even have had the pendant stolen to make him mad.

>kaathe
>disorder
>wants a 1000 year Reich under the stable leadership of the only hero ever able to best lord gwyn.

It does not imply that awakening it and driving it mad was done by two separate actions. It says that they awoke the thing, and in doing so, drove it mad. If anyone here is an ESL it's you.

Or maybe it was bullshit randomly cobbled together because Miyazaki is a hack. First two games kept it fairly consistent and the third one pulls out this super special OCdonut steel Firelord not undead horseshit.

>But why would kaathe want him dug up in the first place?
Manus has some sort of mastery over dark. That's in line with Kaathe's interests.
> He may even have had the pendant stolen to make him mad.
This is too deep speculative territory considering the pendant is found in Seath's creation's possession.

It is inevitable yes. Doesn't mean it's a quality choice tho.

>First two games kept it fairly consistent and the third one pulls out this super special OCdonut steel Firelord not undead horseshit.
Ahhh, another one, roused from the sleep of death?
Well, you're not alone. We Unkindled are worthless. Can't even die right. Gives me conniptions.
And they'd have us seek the Lords of Cinder, and return them to their moulding thrones.
But we're talking true legends with the mettle to link the fire. We're not fit to lick their boots."
>super special OCdonut steel Firelord not undead horseshit.
??????????????????????????

>It says that they awoke the thing, and in doing so, drove it mad.
The sentence is absolutely not stating
>The action of waking up Manus is what drove him mad.
But now we're getting into syntax which is useless to discuss with a non-English speaking native.

Your initial point was you can't make heads or tails of DSIII's story, and now that someone has, you shit yourself and flounder?

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Interfering maybe he was a candidate for dark lord? As for the pendant, seethe would do that as he was friends with lord gwyn and do anything to fuck up kaathe and the dark bois.

you ever notice how the dark souls serpents look kinda like orthodox jews

their bumpy crown is the little jew hat and whiskers are the hair curls. there's also the nose

*interesting, maybe he was candidate...

>Interfering maybe he was a candidate for dark lord?
That's what I thought, too. Others think he's the furtive pygmy. Wakarimasen.

And all the filthy underhanded scheming like getting a European monarch to literally throw himself into the fire and thereby crumble all his society to dust and wipe his culture out of existence as we know it and cause the end of everything decent and meaningful.

Shut it down.

Does gwyn and seethe even know kaathe exists?

well you said it

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If he is the pygmy he will be ideal as dark lord as he is an original denizens of the dark and not some clueless faggot centuries later.

And the disgusting teeth and teeth-grating tick. It reeks of neurosis.

S-stop noticing things goy, someone needs to put you on a short leash

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I suspect that if frampt was bossom buddy with gwyn he would have been briefed on kaathes jewry and scheming.

Oy very

AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN GODDAMN IT! Fuck these (((primordial serpents)))

And someone needs to tell frampt if he likes fire so much he should go sacrifice himself instead. Ovens are the best place for (((primordial serpents))) afterall.

I mean they are called primordial serpents. Der erdwige Serpent, basically.

Interesting to note that Dark Souls 1 was about a monarch getting played by a scheming serpent, and Dark Souls 2 was about a monarch getting played by a woman

>Dark Souls 1 is about the dangers of jews
>II is about the dangers of females
Is Miyahacki, dare I say it, based and redpilled? What was III about?

gamers getting played by hack writer

It was supposed to be about getting told by a past monarch about the dangers of scheming serpents and then destroying them forever as closure to the trilogy.

>One fine day with a snarl and a hiss
>A serpent was born and it seemed a bit amiss
>No Chaos Eater, no dragon bottom half
>Just a Kingseeker, Darkstalker, little FramptKaathe

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Reminder that the age of dark hasn't been tried

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>main villains in AC4/FA are Omer Science, an Israeli corporation
Jesus why does Miyazaki hate the jews so much?

To know the Jews is to hate them

3 is about the futility of sequels and how series excel most when they only have one game

Okay, so I got this idea. It's a new brand spell type called "Braps". They could only be performed by female players.

To make it work, there would be a new stat called "Gassiness", that would met Gassiness requirements for equipments and braps, it would be also a damage modifier on weapons with Gassiness scaling.

yeah they seem to try to make a distinction between humans/pygmies but it gets jarring how the ringed knights are almost twice as tall as the player

me

slave knights were human.

Age of Dark was tried, at least before the events of 3

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I liked the lore more before Dark Souls 2 and 3.
The idea that you couldnt just reignite the fire and once it was out it was out for good or the fact the souls dont reincarnate and we would eventually run out of lords to sacrifice gave the game a dark and depressing atmosphere.

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Everyone is wrong in Dark Souls. No one is right.

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That's not true. Patches is right.

Crestfallen Warrior is completely right about the bells

>Frampt wants to keep the fucked up, never ending age of fire going by burning dudes
>this is generally bad for the universe but it keeps the gods on top and it's what people understand
>Kaathe wants to usher in the age of dark
>dark is humans normal state and where they are at home but it also fucks us up real good? maybe? maybe it only fucks us because it's built up forever and we're tainted by the light and I don't really know
I like the idea of humans getting to rule an age and be lords of dark but it feels like it could backfire spectacularly

The Deep is not the abyss.

I think people under estimate the length of time between each lord finding their lord soul.

Both of them can fuck off

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There's also the catacombs of carthus and profrained capital which feel very underdeveloped.

"Hmm… You are astonishing.
The truth I shall share without sentiment.
After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls.
But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul.
The Dark Soul.
Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside.
And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained.
Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.
However…
Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord."

All things considered, with where you're dropped in Lordran you don't have much option unless you just wanna sit in firelink all day.

Not to mention the opening cinematic talks about the exploits of everyone involved, leaving out humans.

Are silver knights not human? Are they some sort of lesser godlike beings

I'm not seeing the retcon, the only thing that implies the ringed knights were a retconn is "waited".

Aren't these two the same guy? I was under the impression they were the same guy that would be wherever you are to help you for some reason.
>pic unrelated

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Silver Knights and a few other NPCs like Ciaran are similar to humans but still part of the 'divine' race that the Lords belong to