Weren'r samurai supposed to be super honorable and shit? Bringing a gun to a sword duel doesn't seem honorable to me

You should know the difference between honor and victory

Samurai were as honorable as knights were.

So they werent very honorable at all.

Samurai being “honorable” like the way you see in media is bullshit. They saw winning fights as bringing honor to their lord. It didn’t matter what type of bullshit they used to win. As long as they won, they were bringing honor to their clan.

Where the hell did you get that idea
Samurai were fucking dirtbags, historically and in-game
Genichiro hacks your arm off while you're distracted if you beat him in a fair fight during your first encounter

His fighting style literally states he's been learning how to win no matter what for his entire life
Dude was more a Shinobi than a Samurai

>Samurai
>Honorable
haha fuck no
Samurai were all bitches who would sooner throw rocks and those tiny Japanese chairs at you than actually use their swords.

No, they would purposely bump into peasants to give themselves an excuse to "defend" themselves because they were mad about having a small penis.

Ninjutsu is incredibly powerful, all 3 of them.
Mind control
The best weapon buff in the game
And making a cloud that allows you to go back to stealth.

>All the people exposing samurais itt

Is that the reason ninjas are way more common in games, specifically as protagonists? Samurais were assholes but ninjas had this mysteriousness about them?

They were honorable. But they were also in tune with nature. They didn't have this modern ideas that exist only in the mind plane.

>samurai supposed to be super honorable and shit
No. Bushido and the samurai spirit honor is all BS.
It was made up by a Japanese missionary to make Japan seem more civilized in the eyes of Christians in Europe.

No one was "honorable" in the Sengoku era.

Someone didn’t listen to the story. Isshin Ashina’s own combat style he himself wrote about puts victory as the most important aspect of a fight. In essence his style is closer to the shinobi’s than the samurai.

Just like anglos (but with more culture)!

The first time you meet him he explicitly says his style does whatever it takes to win.

Samurai were proven to be corrupted, degenerate assholes that abused their position, this is nothing new.

>Weren'r samurai supposed to be super honorable
Most Samurai were barely better than bandits. There's a reason why Oda Nobunaga despised them and why Toyotmi Hideyoshi blew them the fuck out with new laws (since every pleb could pick up a sword and call himself Samurai).

It's not even a joke when Samurai movies have people being randomly cut down on the road because a shmuck wanted to test out his weapon because that happened pretty often.

youtu.be/P48XCNARe90
I see. Even though this guy was playing pretty badly he still managed to make it out easy peezy.

>Because knights in shining armour existed

Who said Isshin is a samurai? He's the lord of the country. He's simply just a warrior. Samurai are the ones that bow to a lord and serve them. Isshin doesn't serve anyone. He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

>It's not even a joke when Samurai movies have people being randomly cut down on the road because a shmuck wanted to test out his weapon because that happened pretty often.

At least european knights were supposed to abide by the code of chivalry and not fuck with peasants

>Weren'r samurai supposed to be super honorable and shit?
The honor of killing unarmed peasant over testing a new blade

T H I S

kinda like chinks and cheating in vidya

He's fighting a Shinobi, those cunts don't fight fair so it's ok

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It happen so much they even create a new word for it.

Ninja happen to be way more romanticized than Samurai, but by the rest of the world. The Japanese focused a lot on Samurai decades ago in their media, but as they opened up to the rest of the world, Ninja were like secret agents among the grunts, which appealed to most other nations who would rather see them front and center. The Japanese would have ninja often alongside samurai and would play up their ability but wouldn't make them the focus so as to maintain that mysteriousness. The west made ninja way more overtly focused on, so by the time video games came about, way more ninja.

Even then, most "real" Ninja back then were just samurai or mostly ordinary farmers hired to gank people, usually by wearing simple disguises or with a bit of persuasion/opportunity to get close (like a concubine stabbing a dude with a knife while he stabs her with his dick).

>wearing no armor except a helmet
this shit shouldn't be so cool

Chivalry and Bushido are both bullshit after the fact romanticising knights/samurai.

samurai weren't honorable. They used whatever means necessary to win and really the only ground rule was "don't run away" and "don't be a bitch"

>Weren'r samurai supposed to be super honorable and shit?

no.

the most honorable thing is to defeat the enemy

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>Weren'r samurai supposed to be super honorable and shit?

They were as honorable as mafioso are. It's bullshit and they were no different from those thugs.

If you read the description for the Ashina style esoteric text you'd see that Isshin Ashina's entire philosophy was winning at any cost. Honor doesn't mean shit if you're dead.

absolute chad stance

Fun Fact
The move 'Night Slash' in Pokemon is called 'Crossroad Killing' in Japan. It's a reference to a practice done by some Samurai, where they would hide at a crossroads and kill an unsuspecting commoner in order to test how sharp their swords were.

The 'honorable past' stuff was invented by nationalistic fuckdicks in the era where Japan was seeking to become a stronger Imperial power. Much in the same way that the US promotes its military and whitewashes its past.

Having listened to two podcasts on the subject I am basically an expert.

Bushido is the civil code made at the end of the sengoku era. The premise was to make a morality sistem for warriors in time of peace.
It's an experiment in trying to solve the question on how to have morality without religious dogmas.

Miyamoto Musashi, the most renowned undefeated samurai sword dualist, threw dirt in people's faces, used two swords, and won a duel by throwing his sword at someone. Also he was like 6 feet tall at a time when Japanese were even shorter.

Samurai were opportunistic murderers

Samurai was a caste. The wife of a samurai was samurai also.
The japanese clasic feudal caste system is like this:
Above the system: Emperor and Shogun
1st class: Samurai warriors and family
2nd class: Farmers
3rd class: Artisans
4rd class: Merchants
Bellow the system: Burakumin and Hinin (outcasts, homeless, etc)

As you can see, only people in 1st to 4th classes had duties and rights. Above them were the absolute leaders, and they were above all that shit. As samurai, just the act of drawing your sword in a castle could get you charged with sepuku and could cause your house to be dissolved.
Likewise, people outside the system were barely treated as humans, and samurai could kill them or rape them freely and face no repercutions.

>yfw Nioh's protagonist is real

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_(sailor,_born_1564)

This guy sounds cool as fuck.

Why do so many people complain about the gun attack? Literallly just hold block and you'll take no damage and minuscule posture then you get a free mikiri

He was. He also wrote one of the best books on strategy there is. It's almost tsun tsu level in the sense that it's possible to extract wisdom that can help in any kind of human conflict.

you should read the book of five rings

Bushido and samurai honor was just a bunch of propaganda spread during a period when samurai did not exist anymore. It was used as a way to drum up nationalistic pride and a subservient warrior culture so they could get japs to go to war. Samurai history is actually full of scumbag behavior and multiple instances where people turned on their lords mid-battle just to save their own asses.

Which was?

SHIMMY NA

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fateshit pls go

It's the Sengoku Era, there was no honour in the Sengoku Era, it was a century of constant guerilla warfare. Tokugawa Ieyasu used arquebuses against the cavalry of the Takeda clan, Oda Nobubaga was betrayed and butchered along with his entire clan while they were feasting by his most trusted retained for no reason whatsoever (an IRL red wedding you might say).

Tsujigiri (辻斬り or 辻斬, literally "crossroads killing") is a Japanese term for a practice when a samurai, after receiving a new katana or developing a new fighting style or weapon, tests its effectiveness by attacking a human opponent, usually a random defenseless passer-by, in many cases during nighttime.[1] The practitioners themselves are also referred to as tsujigiri.[1]

>Farmers above Artisans and Merchants
Huh?

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Didn't this also lead to Yakuza gangs forming? It just started as people grouping up to defend themselves from Samurai.

>everyone in the thread is citing real history about samurai
>even though the game explains it already

youtu.be/yhnAcwsv6l4?t=472

there are references in the game to the Ashina style, which basically states that "you do what it takes to win" and if that includes busting out a fucking glock mid-fight, then so be it

Isshin could abide fighting dirty in order to win, but he didn't like trying to use magic or demons to win (probably because it fucks you up and puts you down a slippery slope into becoming a monster yourself), which is why he was disappointed in Genichiro

Money is dirty, same reason jews were hated

It is said that Ashina style is simply do whatever you can to win.
So yeah.

Wow, I always assumed samurai honor was a bit overstated but I didn't expect this

Ashina Style is lifted straight from Blade of the Immortal

whatever works lol

>4rd class: Merchants
You know, I was just thinking, in Sekiro there's an NPC you meet called Anayama. In a flashback three years ago he's part of a bandit group and a looter, when you meet him again three years later he's a merchant and Sekiro isn't surprised at all. Interesting.

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Believe it or not, it's true. Merchants were at the bottom of society because they produced wealth without actually making any goods.
Artisans at least made something, but it was still percieved as less glorious/important than tending the land and making food.
So yeah, peasants could shit on merchants lol.
It wasn't until the end of the shogunates that the merchant class started to revolt a little as they had grown increasingly richer due to more and more people living in cities.

everyone needs food idiot

the myth that samurai were assholes that killed civilians for fun is pretty unfounded, although it did occur. ninjas literally existed because their scummy tactics were seen as beneath samurai, so i hardly think they were any better than them.

See thisAlso in Sekiro, consider how many of the merchants are just battlefield looters.

Yeah all those farmers in the middle ages sure had a massive caste advantage over merchants or artisans. Farmers were literally bottom of the barell because everyone could farm.

Chapter 1, 18: All warfare is based on deception.
Chapter 3, 9: If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy.
Chapter 6, 9: O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible.
Chapter 7, 15: In war, practice dissimulation, and you will succeed.
Chapter 8, 12: There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: (1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction; (2) Cowardy, which leads to capture; (3) a hasty tempter, which can be provoked by insults; (4) A DELICACY OF HONOR WHICH IS SENSITIVE TO SHAME; (5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble.
Chapter 10, 24: The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
Chapter 11, 36: He must be able to mystify his officers and men by false reports and appearances, and thus keep them in total ignorance.

Farmers barely had anything to do with the other classes. They lived in villages and farmed all the time, pretty much made their own rules.

The lords could tax them as much as they wanted but couldn't really order them to do anything else. If they taxed them too hard the farmers would start a really violent riot and probably lose, but either way nobody eats.

This treaty dates back to the 5th century BC 2000 years before the setting of Sekiro, but still keeps its meaning. For a samurai in the Sengoku period, the only honor that exists consists in victory and bringing down dhe enemy. A samurau who traps a powerful enemy and kills him is honorable, the one who decides to sacrifice himself to give time to the defenses to organize and therefore win the battle, is honorable. A samurai who doesn't take advantage of a weakness and because of this loses the battle, then loses his honor too, because winning a battle means bringing power, prestige and all wealth to one's own country. Do you believe that a wise warrior would blow the lives of an entire country just for this ridiculous form of pseudo-honor?

Anyone ever use anything from Tsun Tsun or Mickymotor Musashi to level up their fighting game play?

sekiro isn't a samurai though, he's not all about honour.

pic related fagit

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>alpha male tier
Isshin, Wolf
>based tier
Gyoubu
>undue suffuring tier
Sculptor
>ancap compulsive liar tier
Owl, Butterfly
>absolute virgin tier
genichirou

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Isshin doesn't give a shit about traditional honor he literally says the Isshina style is "to win at all costs".

Also in the Sengoku period being an "honorable samurai" meant to bring glory to your clan which meant conquering your enemies. Nobody gave a shit about how it was done.

Of course. The art of warfare is deception. You can't win anything PVP against a proficient players without deception.
When you bait someone into shoryu punish, that's deception.

There was honor involved in other traditional aspects though.
Poison and other things were universally considered as dishonorable.
Duels were pretty sacred and cheating in general wasn't favorably looked on.
Also, war morality is not personal civil morality. Even the japs during sengoku understood this.

Not in Sengoku era, that honrabru shit is from Edo era.

Genichiro is a samurai and he still mentioned the difference between honor and victory.

he is carrying multiple weapons so probably ditched most of armor to fast roll

Great wisdom then, we shouldn't have forgotten it.

the snake valley will always be "that part" when replaying the game. fuck all these cannon sluts

Isn't that backwards? Wouldn't it be really fucking humiliating to lose to someone fighting honorably while you're not?

Knights were no different. Look at Gilles de Rais.

>Artisans at least made something, but it was still percieved as less glorious/important than tending the land and making food.

Which is why Feudal Japan was BTFO in the end

sun tsu quotes are super applicable to sekiro

"avoid a stronger enemy but if you really must then fight on YOUR terms not his"

with this I raped """"lone"""" shadow by backstabbing his boyfriend. empowering with bestowal and then furiously slashing him with sabimaru. it felt good