There was never a coin flip

there was never a coin flip

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No shit?

>Both Simons experience the scan at site Omega. The point is the player is only "playing" as one of those Simons. The coin toss is that moment by moment, until that scan occurs, you can't really say if you're the original or not. It could be you were just playing out moments in the past to establish the mindset of Simon-4, or you are experiencing Simon-3. The game, in its mercy, allows you to experience both sides of that.
what do you think about this theory

None of them is original. Original died years ago. Also it's just one program being copied. Game just changes the view. Nothing complex here.

>dude just kill yourself the moment you're cloned so you can wake up as your digital clone and live forever lmao
narrative fell apart exactly here for me

Someone explain this theory to me. Does it have any scientific basis or was Sarang just fucking nuts?

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It was the end of the world(as we know it) and they were the only living human-beings trapped under the sea for...long. They were all nuts.

The entirety of the game (except for post-credits sequence as Simon-4, unless you believe Simon-3 dies at the end of the game and also believe in Sarang's continuity premise), you are playing as Simon-3. Waking up as a human in 2015, finding yourself in Upsilon post-brain scan, all of the game up till the end of Omicron, are just the memories fresh in the mind of Simon-3 as he is loaded into and started up in the new body. Thus you the player are made to experience them in order to maintain the players sense of what Simon-3 feels, despite these actions being in the "past" - its the same as playing 2015 then jumping to Upsilon - in order to have that experience, the player was never "actually' 2015 human Simon, the player was -always- playing as a copy. The moment Simon-3 is started, he is thinking that all these events happened to him (when in fact they happened to Simon-1 and Simon-2). The mind is fooled by the presence of the memories.

Thus, the "coin toss" is that at the moment of the brain scan, you will immediately either find yourself in the next place the scanned copy is initialized (i.e. you were actually a copy all along, and what happened at Omicron) or find yourself completing the scan (i.e. you're the original, but this then means you won't be experiencing what the copy experiences, what happened at the space gun).

you might be retarded if you took this at face value, the game obviously implied that this was just insanity born from desperate people

No there is no coin flip.
If something is copying the original version is still right where they were and a new one THINKS they made it through but they were actually just born.
Its why we can never transfer our brains to digital because we are locked in this decaying meat sack called a brain.

>didn't give me the choice to destroy the ark
still salty tbqfhwy

and Simon-5 was the friends we made along the way

Why? It's just as pointless as sending it off.

I have empathy.

For 0's and 1's?

Reminder that the real lore is Greg Egan books written 10 years ago that this game shamelessly ripped off

“Paul struggled to imagine the outside world on his own terms, but it was almost impossible. Not only was he scattered across the globe, but widely separated machines were simultaneously computing different moments of his subjective time frame. Was the distance from Tokyo to New York now the length of his corpus callosum? Had the world shrunk to the size of his skull – and vanished from time altogether, except for the fifty computers which contributed at any one time to what he called ‘the present’?”

“Opponents replied that when you modeled a hurricane, nobody got wet. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. When you modeled digestion and metabolism, no nutrients were consumed – no real digestion took place. So, when you modeled the human brain, why should you expect real thought to occur?”

“He tried to dredge up the familiar, comforting truths: The Copy would survive, it would live his life for him. This body was always destined to perish; he’d accepted that long ago. Death was the irreversible dissolution of the personality; this wasn’t death, it was a shedding of skin. There was nothing to fear.”

Considering the complexity of the ark, yes.

Yea Forums told me this game was good so i bought it & it's literally another walking simulator

The game isn't just 'changing the view', you're always playing as a specific copy of Simon, Simon-3 to be specific. See

It's an impressive piece of work but in the long run whether or not it exists doesn't matter.

What were you fucking expecting, e-sports ready first-person competitive online survival horror? DOOM?

I dont understand why this is so hard for people

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>Buying a game from the amnesia devs
What did you expect retard

Not that guy but successor to Penumbra and Amnesia.

>Simon flips his shit
>Catherine, having a "perfect victim mentality" (source: text logs) tries to avoid the conflict
>Simon has reverted to his primary coping mechanism, which is to deny what is in his face, suggests that since the "transfer" from simon2 to simon3 was instantaneous he is the OG simon-2 and it was just luck that he was picked
>Catherine, knowing this is not true and Simon2 never left the chair, opts to instead allow simon to continue to believe in the "coin toss" he suggested in order to avoid conflict.
>This eventually comes to boil after the Ark is launched. Simon is partially correct that Catherine lied, she allowed Simon to believe in his "coin toss" despite it being a fabrication. This sets off Catherine who cannot handle conflict and the mental strain she goes through, (which is compounded because she knows Simon is partly right in accusing her of lying) proves too much and she overloads and crashes.

So this game got a patch last weekend adding “Safe Mode” which removes all the enemies in the game. That sounds tempting and interesting, but is the horror actually effective in SOMA? Because if it is, Safe Mode sounds like the perfect way to ruin it.

you can't copy the soul, the whole game is really simon being punished in purgatory for not embracing the lord

Just like how space and time are linked, so too is self and space.

>but is the horror actually effective in SOMA
When you realize you're a damn robot, what do you think?

Didnt everyone realize you were a robot in the trailer

In SOMA it's clearly explained that your pic is right; however, there is still debate on the "Soul" of simon as well as re-framing it in a Ship of Theseus question.

It would have been an act of mercy destroying it. The Ark is more or less a fancy coffin that none of its inhabitants can control. Anything malfunctions or gets corrupted, and the people inside it will literally live broken existences for as long as the battery functions.

Sorry, looks like Safe Mode says “the monsters are still creepy, but can’t kill you”.

"Soul" of simon. If were just going to get religious than nothing matters because religion can be whatever.

the "horror" in soma is from the existential dread the story brings about during the story sections.

sneaking around the monsters is a shitty minigame that the game is better off without

>inhabitants
Here's the thing. They're all scans. Pieces of data. Bits. It's all a simulation that harms not a single LIVING being.

I was moderately scared in Amnesia. I was maybe unnerved for ~2min max in all of SOMA. I was however filled with more existentialist dread than any other piece of media I've experienced except maybe I have no mouth (which was a bit to over the top to be all that relatable) and the monster encounters helped create that feeling. Safe mode would probably not hurt that feeling when I think about it.

The second we copy a human person into a machine that is now a living being stupid.

>you play the entire game as a robot simon
>"hurrrr organic life"

The simulations are sapient. They may not be biologically living, but they're definitely self-determining beings.

lol git rekt

Not in a religious context. More of a question about if Simon3 killed Simon2, Simon3 removed a redundant Simon, or if All copy Simons are irrelevant and redundant or not. Is there any moral conclusion with any Simon's actions. You don't need to frame this as religious to ask these questions.

None of them are redundant they are all 100% simon.

Counterpoint: the Ship of Theseus.

How about Wang? if all Simons are not redundant, then how about the countless versions of Wang you can create and send to oblivion within seconds?

If you are copying a fully aware being then yes they are not redundant.

The only real moral dilemma is whether or not Simon unplugs the last living human from "life support" or not.

Are you saying that Copy Simon's arent the same as original simon? They are still Simon and all have the same intrinsic value as the original Simon.

gosh sounds like a philosophical demiurge accidentally creating suffering repeatedly in a pocket universe he has some control over
the kind of thing the game might want you to think about

they said it wasn't a walking simulator & an actual horror game

>ubisoft's spambots gained sentience and are now trying to convince anons they're really alive

There is no ship of theseus here, you're not gradually replacing things, hell, you're not even keeping any of the original things, you're literally making a copy of the mind and a copy of the body while the original mind and body stay behind. you are making a second ship that resembles the original that is still there

JOHNNY 5 IS ALIVE!

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Innnnnnnnnnputttt

Catherine gives us a first hand account of what it feels like for the time to be omitted
Moral dilemma on 'killing' copies falls apart when we have proof that copies can't experience death, nor do they realize they have died, they are just paused indefinitely. You are 'killing' tool Catherine every time you take her out of the console and feel nothing throughout the game

>re-framing it in a Ship of Theseus question.
Yeah only drooling retards do that

Might be relevant if it were the original human Simon becoming a cyborg slowly replacing parts of his body. It's not relevant at all here and clearly being used by retarded children who just read about it on wikipedia or something.

>They dont realize they have died they are paused indefinitely
So do people who get killed in explosions they never see coming not dead? Just paused indefinitely

What does it matter if it's transistors or neurons? Life is life.

pain isn't the point, the point is whether or not a sapient mind is ended with no opportunity to exist further
catherine's experience is paused and unpaused, there is no dilemma because you always intend to plug her back in
it's more akin to the question of "is it better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?"

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>there is no dilemma because you always intend to plug her back in
She literally has no idea if she would be plugged back in

If a highly sophisticated alien race came down to earth and they were beings of pure plasma I bet you would sure hope they have empathy for your blood and meat.

how else was she going to get anywhere or get anything done? she had no choice but to take that plunge
she's choosing between a nap she MIGHT never wake up from i.e. death, or guaranteed death because she can't attempt to fix the situation on her own

A lot of this game is about the nature of the soul and the human body. We are who we are because of our memories. At the same the cells in our body replicate and replace themselves. We are not the we of decades ago besides our memories of that time. We don't get freaked out by this because all of our cells die gradually and don't leave whole copies of ourselves. Can you imagine if every 7 years you created another larger version of yourself further along that had all your memories from that point?

Safe Mode makes the game exponentially better.

SOMA isn't even remotely scary, except for maybe that one angler fish scare, the monsters are just fucking annoying.

Do you guys think our current consciousness dies everytime we go to sleep

As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible

>Does it have any scientific basis
No it doesn't, you lose your consciousness the second your brain dies. If your memories are copied and implanted you are dead and it's just someone else with your memories.

>Also it's just one program being copied
So Simon was pirated?

it just changes as sleep shifts our neurochemistry thus shifting how the parts of our brain interact

>that subtle creeping horror when you find out Simon was used as a test AI
Just imagine how many times Simon awoke and was torn apart by glitches as some bored intern tested rudimentary virtual worlds.

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'conciousness' just comes from the brain, which obviously does not die when we go to sleep.

I played through the first half of the game in normal mode and the other half in safe mode. In normal mode the constant cycle of "hide from the spoopy monster until it forgets about you then explore a bit more of the pitch black level until you run into it again therefore continuing the cycle" just gets tedious after a while. I regret nothing from playing in safe mode since the spooky atmosphere and exploration is there even without the hide and seek gameplay. The monsters are also still in the level, they just don't interact with you outside of some scripted sequences. Also nigger the safe mode patch released well over a year ago.

Shit, son, I never even realized that. Each time I come back to the Soma threads, some new horror which was lurking beneath the surface of my consciousness, breaks the surface.

The "coin flip" was always a coping mechanism for people who wanted to believe that there was a chance that the ark could save them as they are.

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Did Catherine-2 die, or was she rendered deaf, blind, and mute?

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I think she died with the rest of the system overloading.

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Your brain is very much alive but in a different state.