The best platformer ever came out 20+ years ago

I know MJ was involved with Sonic 3s ost but I really do like Sonic and Knuckles’ stage music more in the end

Really good remix right there

*Dies*

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Mania was better

Attached: 495327-sonic-mania-plus-playstation-4-front-cover.jpg (800x800, 183K)

I love Mania and I think it might have some things going for it, but 3&K might do it for me as a whole package.

>still gets patreon money
no

Truth
Oh did you like the shitty level design that constantly broke the flow of gameplay because I sure didn't

Sonic 2 is superior in every way I wish more people would realize this

>Shitty level design that constantly broke the flow of gameplay
>Shills the game with Casino Night, Mystic Cave, Oil Ocean, and Metropolis in it
Okay, retard

Mania > 2 > 1 > 3 > CD is the correct opinion

>BROO SONIC 2 IS SO MUCH BETTER
oh no no no no

Attached: cave.png (319x214, 100K)

>1 better than 3
>1 better than CD
You're trying too hard, zoomer.

/\/\/\/\/\

This essentially. Mania is quite good especially on the technical end, but experiencing Sonic3&K front to back is still superior.

I liked getting to play the remastered old stages in HD with the new remixes, but the whole thing suffers conceptually from just being a jumble of disparate stages w/ the player teleporting to each with the gem. I hear Plus fixes this a bit, but 3&K shines in that it feels like a continual adventure, and it built on the lore of the series instead of wading in it. If Sega gives them the go ahead to make Sonic 5/Mania 2 a solid story with mostly original areas that flow together it’ll be great

>Casino Night
It's a casino stage so it makes sense it was also really fun
>Mystic cave
Used clever mechanics throughout the level to keep it interesting
>Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Sky Chase
they're the last levels in the game. It makes sense for things to close down

S3&K had this throughout the entire game with scripted sequences for no reason

bad bait

3 is the best, followed by 2 followed by S&k then 1.
I bought them all each the days when they came out.

I'm guessing you haven't played the games in a while and are holding onto nostalgia without thinking critically

So many technical improvements but I hope for the next one they’re willing to fix more shit that should already be in
>Give tails ability to stop flying on command
>If block is coming down and will crush Sonic, sonic automatically crouches/rolls first before dying

haha fuck that level

how is 3 better then s&k

>Casino Night
>Really fun
It had neat ideas, but the pacing killer that those pinball tables are are ridiculous
>Clever mechanics
Waiting for platforms to stick out of the wall for make-shift stairs and shitty pully levers that Tails can activate on accident aren't clever, they're annoying
>Makes sense to close down
Why was Wing Fortress fucking excellent, then? Why did Metropolis have to deal with shitty enemy placement and those slow ass bolt turning segments?

>S3&K had this throughout the whole game
The only times the game slows you down actively are the auto-scrolling sections in Marble Garden and Flying Battery. Fuck are you on?

>scripted sequences
It’s only a handful of moments to pantomime story elements. Who is this, fucking ACfag?

>If I disagree with it it's bait
Is this indicative on how you solve most of your life's problems; your refusal to learn & grow

y'all are wild

fucking faggot how is sonic 1 good

Not that user, but Sonic 1 is a fun game, it's just by FAR the weakest of the genesis titles. It's not bad, but having it above 3 and CD is retarded no matter what.

All this text and you didn't even mention the level design, possibly because you know it's flawed and would cripple your argument.

It makes sense to divert the gameplay at the final point of the game was my point. Never said Wing Fortress or Metropolis.

I will say it again more plainly because perhaps you misunderstood: The level design in S3&K makes it objectively a less enjoyable experience than Sonic 2.

better ending

sonic 1 is just ass. Anyone who says otherwise is just blatantly ignoring the second stage.

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All that spacing and not once did you cite an example of Sonic 3's level design being bad while I straight up buried those levels I talked about.
>Makes sense to diver the gameplay at the final point of the game
and my point was "Sure, but this level is still bad while THIS one does it well, despite being in the same fucking game"

>sonic 1 is just ass. Anyone who says otherwise is just blatantly ignoring the second stage.
This, I'm a zoomer btw

I like all of 3s levels except marble garden. also music is better

The flaws in Sonic 1 are mostly Marble Zone, Labyrinth Zone, and Scrap Brain zone. That's most of the game tho. The special stages are shit.

I would personally do like

Mania > 2 > 3&K > CD > 1

>If block is coming down and will crush Sonic, sonic automatically crouches/rolls first before dying
There are way too many games that handle this poorly. I'm playing Mega Man X6 right now, and I just played a stage with a trash compacter that comes down, and it kills you while standing even though it has the crouch X5 introduced. It really threw me off.

Maybe when it came out due to its sheer amount of QoL improvements but now 3K is back on top with AIR.

Attached: Sonic 3 A.I.R.jpg (1280x720, 156K)

>Sonic 2 is superior in every way I wish more people would realize this
2 is the worst one

>They had the balls to go "Instead of a proper Scrap Brain Act 3, we're just gonna have an ACT FOUR of Labyrinth Zone. That's a good idea."
I'd put 3&K at the top, but you list is sensible otherwise, user.

I've already said that ever level has stop and go level design. It does not flow well at all. The scripted sequences happen not only in levels but in boss sequences too. They're not terrible (Mania had them too) but when combined with poor level design it's such a slog.

>Sega said this would be longer than any other classic game
>S3&K is 14 zones
>Mania is only 12
>This implies that sonic 2 was the "longest" classic game with 10 zones
Fuck you sega I know you can't S3&K together because of that kid diddler but that doesn't mean you have to ignore it's entire existence.

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you guys know SHIT about sonic
CD > 3&K > 2 > 1

It literally sucks, the maps are too vertical and are poorly made except aquaopolis where the underwater sections meant the designers couldn't waste the players time with repetitive copy/pastes of earlier parts of the level without drowning players. The additional mechanics are also largely wasted, every level having been designed so that players can get through without the elemental powerups, thus rendering their need or use at all interesting or fun.

Sonic 2 is good because it has the most consistently well designed levels. It's still not as good as Super Mario World because the fundamental controls of sonic games are too slow and levels to often punish you for daring to move through them quickly while mario is bouncing around like a coke fiend, twirling like a ballerina across obstacles faster than the speed of sound and soaring through the air with the greatest of ease.

>Every level has a stop and go level design
No they don't. You've STILL to provide a single (1) example, too. It's pathetic. I even gave you some freebies with MGZ and FBZ

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Lel those fucking ghost

Follow somebody on Twitter in march

Based

proof ?

>spoon-feed me or your argument is invalid
Just play them side by side.
I'm not going to go level by level with you.
I can just like point to the first level in the game with the swinging vines, disappearing blocks, pointless water hazards, etc.

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>Sonic 2 is good because it has the most consistently well designed levels
>Metropolis exists
Wew lad, Sonic 2fags are delusional.

>sonic 3&k worst than 2
>super mario world good

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hahahahahaha great job user genuine chuckle

how is eggman such a good villain ?

Attached: based eggman.png (272x366, 46K)

I've played both S2 and S3&K within the last few months. I beat S3&K like ten times when I only sat through 2 like twice.
>Swinging vines, disappearing blocks, pointless water hazards
Shit you can avoid and speed through if you're not a shitter, unlike the pinball tables in CNZ, the switches in MCZ, and half the shit in Metropolis

For my money, it's gotta be
Mania > CD > 3 > 1 > 2

>the last level in the game was hard what the fuck
>trash game

I guess this is why they're still making boost games

Amen. Sonic and Knuckles is boring as shit with Flying Battery being the only standout zone in the whole game.

It's because THE STORY BEGINS
WITH WHO'S GONNA WIN

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The only thing keeping this game from bein perfect is another flying battery zone with the green battery that burns Angel Island, so we can have the transition with its door at Ice Cap.

And a Death Egg Zone, that I think is missing, it's just too strange the Death Egg to blow up just because Sonic defeated Robotinik.

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The fuck. It's easily the better half.

laugh all you want, but you know I'm right

>Hating on Mushroom Hill, Lava Reef, and the superior Death Egg zone

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It was a screencap in a Sonic thread a few days ago. I don't have the picture but take my word for it.

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The green ship IS Flying Battery though, they just changed its design when Sonic & Knuckles came out. You can tell because they both make the same exact noise.

sonic 2 fags are the hoenn babies of the sonic fanbase

Based. Mania is top tier, CD is a great game and great brainlet filter, 3&K (particularly 3C) is one of the best classic Sonic games as a whole but is carried HARD by the &K half of the game.

And no, you hold-right retard reading this, don't you dare try to contradict me about CD with the words "level design" in your post just to prove you got filtered.

Okay.

I see you have your nostalgia glasses strapped almost into your skull so you can have this arguement. You win user. Have fun with your clearly inferior game.

It does have a Death Egg Zone.

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Yep, but another one would fix both things.

And the Death Egg Zone. That would make this game perfect.

In Sonic 3 complete you can change Flying Battery position before the Ice Cap.

At the end of Sonic 3, I mean, how did Sonic fucked Death Egg launch?

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Yeah, Sonic CD did come out that long ago.

When will Sega let us play as the Troll King?

yeah thats true but also
I AM THE EGGMAN
THATS WHAT I AM
I AM THE EGGMAN
WITH THE MASTER PLAN

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Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 > &Knuckles > Sonic 1

>I see you have your nostalgia glasses stra-
You don't see shit. You're backing down because I'm fucking raping you and you have no argument besides nostalgia, so you're projecting that onto me. Thanks for the forfeit, though. I just wish you gave up sooner so you didn't look like THIS much of a fucking idiot.

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>don't mention level design
so you're admitting its shit
>brainlet
this is the most barebones platformer, figuring out where locations is isn't difficult

CD is the antithesis of a Sonic game it doesn't reward speed at all. It is the most sloggy game in the series.

What is wrong with Sonic 2 exactly?

I like CD but exploring for places to build up speed to time travel was kind of unexciting. When I played I got the good ending by destroying those generators and going to the good future.

Also the special stages played like trash. Also most bosses are piss easy even by classic Sonic standards

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yeah i know i just forgot to save the picture and wanted to save it kek

>If you staple these two games together it's the best game
This will always be the most retarded group of meleefag-likes

>how did Sonic fucked Death Egg launch?
Well, he did fuck up a bunch of machinery in the launch base. Maybe a connection could be made where the first phase of the boss fight where the machine is built into the area is an essential piece of equipment that just had a defense mechanism.

>Coping this hard
>"I-If you place the two games that were developed as a single entity and put them together, you get the best game"

Nothing. It's the best one. Sonic 3 is nice, but the level design revolves mostly around gimmicks and scripted sections. Sonic 2 is pure gameplay and the peak of classic Sonic formula. Sonic 3 appeals more to casuals because of the gimmicks.

hahaha holy shit you actually believe this

I promise one day you're going to revisit these games, realize what I'm saying, and feel really really stupid.

I genuinely find it laughable that this is how you validate yourself.

>they didn't handhold me through the entire arguement so they're wrong

I'm extremely glad I don't live like this

>that were developed as a single entity
>On two different cartridges
B A S E D retard

Yeah, that would make more sense.

Boom, it launched, but Sonic goes through another stage. We could see the Death Egg going up in the background. And you break some computer or machinery, and have a final boss battle.

And then the Death Egg lose communication with the Launch base and fall. Making the Death Egg stage special as the last stage.

>That spacing
Dude, can't you just type shit out like a normal person?
>I didn't give a single real argument, but if I call it handholding, It'll look like I win
What a fucking cope. I DO hope you're satisfied with how you're living, cause I would've killed myself years ago if I were in your shoes

>You can't judge RE2 as a full game, since it's on two discs
Based zoomer retard

Nope. Only one cartridge here. It needs to be that big to hold all the content. It's like the Virtua Racing cart.

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You can connect it to Sonic 1 and 2 as well

Mania > Sonic 3 & K > Sonic 2 > Sonic CD > Sonic 1

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Don't feed the zoomers. Everyone knows that despite being intended as one game, they are not, because of production issues.

There is separate Sonic 3 ending.
You can play &Knuckles by itself.
They weren't released together.
They are two different games.

No one should be forced to cater to your preferences. I've given you very solid reasons and examples.

This is extremely embarrassing.

>S3&K
>Exploration
>Platforming
Nah

So they were released and sold together as a packaged deal, right?

Right?

There is nothing wrong with CD's level design. Every stage is a continuous chain of physics setpieces, "antithesis of Sonic" my ass. You're a retard.

Valid but CD's special stages are better than 1 and 2's at the very least. If I had to change anything about CD, I'd give it more zones and better bosses. But it's not inherently flawed like people claim

>I've given you very solid reasons and examples.
>Just says shit like "The whole game is like this just because"
>The only example he gives is completely blown apart with little effort
Come on, at least pretend you're trying.
>This is extremely embarrassing
I'm glad you're at least self-aware, my dude. Good effort, champ.

>I'll defend the jewery of a games publisher if it means I can look like my argument holds any water
If you told anybody "Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are meant to be played separately" a few years back, you'd get laughed out of the thread. The fact that we let retardation like this slide is concerning.

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>S3&K
>speed

It had plenty platforming tho

>exploration
Exploration in Sonic games shouldn't be "find the secret hidden locations to win", it should be "find the fastest route to the goal"

so yea 3&K failed that too

>Sonic 1
Platforming ****
Exploration *
Speed *
Gimmicks *

>Sonic CD
Platforming *
Exploration ****
Speed **
Gimmicks **

>Sonic 2
Platforming **
Exploration **
Speed ****
Gimmicks **

>Sonic 3&K
Platforming *
Exploration **
Speed ***
Gimmicks ****

>go to the zone
>find a time ledger
>find a spring or loop to teleport
>find the specific robot to destroy
>do this for every stage to win

>SPEED!!!

yes you could just do the special stages but those are garbage

and the level design is still shit

Look at this fag, he only had the first half lmao

You can play the game as fast you want faggo, just collect all the rings and do the special stages and don't get hit. You think Sonic 2 was any better with emerald stages? Level design is good btw

>S3&K only one bar in platforming

should be 3

I don't know man DKC2 is a good contender. I really like both.

web.archive.org/web/20160505100043/http://insomnia.ac/reviews/megadrive/sonicthehedgehog2/

Sonic 2 was the worst in the series, it's a fact.

>I'm right
>I'm right
>I'm right
>I'm right

sounds like you really need this for the sake of personal validation. I'm going to stop responding now.

I just dont see it. All the gimmicks revolve around slowly doing something or moving blocks or being underwater. The levels are clearly copy pasted which is why they are all 7-8 minutes. The music is grating and really fucking sucks and the sprites are uglier than sonic 1/2. Unironically my least favorite 2D sonic game, dont care if that makes the sonic retro autists or whatever youtube review watching faggots here mad. Were not all balding 30+ nu males with the same opinion

This review is basically "it's too hard for me so it's bad"

This review is widely mocked so if this is the platform you're standing on that's really funny

No, it should be one. S3&K consists of a series of flat areas and rarely requires any sort of precision jumping. In S3&K you are either running on a flat stretch, going through a scripted movement or interacting with a gimmick. Platforming is the least of these elements.

I don't give a fuck about your tranny snowflake review from a literal who.

This is my favorite sonic 2 stage though

>It's too hard to read, so I'll call him bad at games.

How is Sonic CD not 6 starts in gimmicks?

Sandopolis is the only bad level in the whole game.

>everyone that disagrees with me is a gay tranny
Yea Forums's autism never ceases to amuse me

Mania has shitty bosses. S3&K has awesome bosses.

>this literal who review proves that sonic 2 is bad
You're a fucking idiot and probably the author of that "review".

nice argument, try to have point next time

>he's actually the writer of that dogshit literal who review
OH NO NONONO HAHA

Have they fixed the mod kits for the game yet after denuvo was removevo'd? Once mods get fixed again, and I can make my own stuff now, then it's 100% better. I seriously don't need anything from this series anymore, no lore, no plot, no edgy, no sexual shit, nothing. Just give me this unique gameplay no one else as ever done right.

>you've been right about one single thing until now

Mania is too easy.

Imagine posting your abortion of a review on Yea Forums and also being complete shit at video games. Oh wait, you don't have to imagine.

I'd take this timeline instead of the shit timeline you keep reeeeing over because in that time line "just Sonic 3" would have likely killed the series for being worse than 2 for how rushed it would have been.

not even the best platformer of that year

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but both of those premises are false

>S3&K is 14 zones
There's only 12 full length zones. 14 includes Doomsday and Sky Sanctuary which is only 1 act.
S3 is more like 12.5

It was when I played it on PC :^)

Mushroom hill is fucking awesome.

You can also play Mario as fast as you want, doesn't mean the game is built around using speed.

Level design is absolute trash and does not suit a character like Sonic, since it never allows you to take advantage your abilities to traverse the stage or more importantly, build up speed to time travel. They're also annoyingly large and yet still painfully short and lack any cohesion or structure and feel more like fan made levels with how randomly everything is strewn about with little rhyme or reason.

The time travel gimmick is an abortion that is actively hindered by the level design and makes it so that the only reliable way to time travel is by finding designated spots that do all the work for you. Time traveling is also functionally pointless in every respect; the only reward for doing it at all is a slightly different ending cutscene. Sonic 1 does this too but it at least doesn't hinge its entire game on a terribly implemented gimmick. Going into the future is a waste of time even when you do make a good future since by the time you find the robot generators there's no reason to explore the levels further and most of the time will be near the end anyway, and if you miss just ONE act without destroying the generator, then time travel is COMPLETELY pointless for the rest of that playthrough since you lock yourself out of the good ending via that method, same for if you get all the time stones, which does leave you free to travel to the good future, but only for half the levels in the game at best.

People are really out here defending CD.

People are really unfamiliar with the concept of momentum based gaming

What the fuck happened to Yea Forums

You literally just fed a zoomer cuck

For me it's 3&K > Mania > 1 > CD > 2. I love all those games though.

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>story is worse
>not all original levels
>pacing is worse
>final boss is worse
>true final boss is worse
Mania sits somewhere above or below Sonic 2.

>Sonic 1
Platforming ****
Exploration *
Speed **
Gimmicks *

>Sonic CD
Platforming *
Exploration ****
Speed *
Gimmicks ****

>Sonic 2
Platforming ***
Exploration **
Speed ****
Gimmicks **

>Sonic 3&K
Platforming **
Exploration **
Speed **
Gimmicks ****

>t. never even looked at S3&K
(You)

>he didn't like mystic cave zone
top notch music there. You're missing out.

>Sonic 3&K
>Speed **
Sorry, should be
>Speed ***

Is this supposed to be a measure of quality or quantity? Because its slightly more accurate if it's the later.

Yeah CD has gone from underrated to overrated over the years. Yeah I get it, the Toei Animation and JP soundtrack makes for what is probably the most soul a Sonic game has ever had, but the level design is just not on par with the rest. I still like it more than 2 though. Also the fact that I can't replay the game with all Time Stones on the HD port is nonsensical.

It's a measure of the element's prominence, dummy.

>>Sonic CD
>Platforming *
Is this just judging if there's any of x or how good x is? If the former, you're retarded.

all of this is true but gameplay matters so much more and the general gameplay & flow is better than both 2 & 3 objectively

Then Sonic 3 should be 4 stars for every category. People like to meme about how much faster Sonic 2 was, but that's not really true, it's more LINEAR, but not faster. Sonic 3 has fast sections in nearly every zone, along with a greater emphasis on platforming.

Here's a more accurate ranking

>Sonic 1
Platforming ****
Exploration *
Speed **
Gimmicks *

>Sonic CD
Platforming ****
Exploration ****
Speed *
Gimmicks ****

>Sonic 2
Platforming ***
Exploration *
Speed ***
Gimmicks **

>Sonic 3&K
Platforming ****
Exploration ***
Speed ****
Gimmicks ****

>bosses
fuck remember fighting Hyper Mecha Sonic at the end of Sky Sanctuary and then jumping on to the Death Egg afterwards

So epic

No. Stop trying to make Sonic 3 better than it is.

>Then Sonic 3 should be 4 stars for every category
What an idiot.

Contentfags need to gassed. If this was by Sonic Team it would have pure dogshit, plus worse content.
Most of this either doesn't matter or isn't the teams fault.

Why does story matter when A: It's not Sonic 4, and B: even if you wanted it to be, why does Sonic Advance (the first Sonic 4) gets a pass for story when there literaly NOTHING there, epseically coming from Sonic 3K. It's basically Sonic 1 remastered, so why not treat Mania like one?

Objectively all Sonic bosses are shit, even in the 3D ones, because it's either spam to win or pad to piss you off. Sonic's best bosses are basically the Shanobi boss in Mania, personal and to the point. All Eggman type bosses (stand there to get rekt by Sonic or Sonic Runner style boss to get rekt by Sonic) are shit, all of them. But subjectively I still like them, they are simple and to the point, like Sonic should be. Funnily the more complex it gets or the more poorly execute it gets (SA2, 06) it's even worse than any boss in Sonic 1-3K/Mania.

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Mania > 1 > 2 > CD > 3 > S&K

Sonic 3 is elevated so much because of it's seamless integration of narrative. This whole "only gameplay matters" meme is really disingenuous and undermines all the other elements that elevate the experience, and no better is this the case than with Sonic 3. And even if we were only talking about gameplay, I still prefer Sonic 3's level design overall for it's better variety, and thanks to the narrative elements that tie S3 and S&K together, the pacing is much better, giving a mini climax at the halfway point and easing off the tension a little with Mushroom Hill zone before building it back up for the finale, keeping the quite lengthy adventure from feeling fatiguing, which is something Mania suffers from for me at least, not helped by the later levels being less interesting in general.

>Sonic 3 is elevated so much because of it's seamless integration of narrative. This whole "only gameplay matters" meme is really disingenuous and undermines all the other elements that elevate the experience,
So it's ok for story to matter more than what defines gaming in general?
Fuck zoomers. Adding story to the likes of PONG ain't making that game better, to the point the gameplay can be shit and still be "good". Fuck that shit. It's either both or fucking nothing.

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Spoken like a true brainlet. I can't even make out half the shit you're trying to say.

>Most of this either doesn't matter or isn't the teams fault.
Theres a difference between not being necessary and not mattering. Everything I listed matters to varying degrees, doesn't matter how necessary you think they are. They don't hurt Mania as much as they elevate Sonic 3 which did all of those things so much better.

>why does Sonic Advance (the first Sonic 4) gets a pass for story when there literaly NOTHING there
Who said anything about Advance?

You're right about time travel being half-baked but 4 variations on a level is still cool and you're STILL wrong about level design. The fact I can peel-out at mach speed across Collision Chaos bumpers and take flight over the stage proves you wrong

You dumb fucking zoomer

Gameplay > Visuals = Music > Story

Also, notice I said visuals. Not graphics. Visuals includes graphics and artstyle. You can have something with primitive graphics but amazing artstyle/aesthetics.

>reading comprehension

This man is correct.

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I'm going to beat your ass

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I never played the combined version because I only had the mega collection on gamecube
I never even knew a genesis existed, I thought the game gear version was the first version of sonic because I actually played that on the real thing so I was really confused when I found out another Sonic 1 existed

>tfw we never got a proper low poly Classic Sonic game

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F

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>Who said anything about Advance?
I did, nigger. I brought it up because many considered that game the "Sonic 4" of the time, and no one bitched that it had nothing to do with anything from S3K at all, nor the Adventure games coninsiding with it. So Mania should be treated the same, and only autists care about lore.

The very fact the game starts off disregarding everything S3K did (AI in the water when it should be in the air) proves story wasn't a majority, because it shouldn't.

Story in itself is a poison for any series because it singlehandedly makes the series have unreasonable and unreachable standards to "beat the last game's epicness".

the combined version is unlockable, retard

you think I knew how to fucking unlock anything in any game back when the internet barely existed
fuck off

That's not Mario 3. It's good though.

Platformers died when they went 3d.

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>sonic
>ever good

>not having internet in 2002

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>mad cuz bad
never gets old

I was 5 that year

Where the fuck does he say that? I myself even said earlier in the thread that the thing that puts Sonic 3&K a step above is its use of narrative in what would otherwise be just a generic string of levels

>admits to being a zoomer
YIKES

Adults shouldn't play games desu. Seems like games turned to shit thanks to them.

How do you beat this cunt in CD. That said

2 > CD > 1 > S&K > 3. I grew up with genesis so my opinion is more valid than yours

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i thought they mean castlevania

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>be just a generic string of levels
The narrative didn't even need to be "Eggman is up to no good again, gee willikers", Angel Island's levels felt like you traveled from a real life space, unlike Sonic 2 and CD, which felt random
Even Sonic 1 felt very clearly "green hills and old ruins = nature, robots and pollution = Eggman/technology. Sonic 2's "in a 70s radiation green factory to suddenly in the sky" is the biggest example of feeling like a Mario clone.

Well that has nothing to do with my argument nor does it contradict anything I said. Mania's story is worse the Sonic 3's and so is Advance's.

>Story in itself is a poison for any series because it singlehandedly makes the series have unreasonable and unreachable standards to "beat the last game's epicness".
First of all, brainlet
Secondly, Mania's story isn't worse because it's not as 'epic' as Sonic 3, it's worse because its executed worse. I'd say it's done worse than all the other genesis games because at least the story in those games is completely superfluous and could be explained in a single sentence. Mania tries to introduce more narrative elements to give the story more depth, but only ends up making the story more confusing than it needs to be, since nothing is properly conveyed to the player.

Don’t you just bump into his bubbles until there’s an opening?

Yeah but he keeps shooting shit and its basically impossible

Why

Agreed. The game definitely feels like you’re traveling all across Angel Island in a continual series of events

>I'd say it's done worse than all the other genesis games because at least the story in those games is completely superfluous and could be explained in a single sentence.
Dude. It's literially "Eggman finds jewel that makes you revisit old places
Thanks to Plus any and all moments you transition from one stage to the next that wasn't with a illision transition was a real life connection (the fall into Hydrocity, getting shot to Oil Shitter, to being flown to Lava Reef on a flying submerine. The only thing that was a bit wierd to understand was how the Ruby worked as a whole, but that's because people tried to make sense of it based on what Forces did. Fuck Forces, as of Mania it just relocates you into a illisioned world that overlays the real life inverments, which explains why the past levels have differences to their level designs. It's on par to Sonic 1, just more complex, which in itself, is more ignorable then what Sonic CD was doing, and not as nonsense as Sonic 2 was. Seriously 2 was so random because it was intended to be another CD until Yuji Naka found out Naoto Ohshima was doing the same thing at the same time.

The ruby gem thing was a mistake. Just keep classic sonic on its own damn timeline Sega. It’s obvious it was forced in by the higher ups too

It’s been forever and I only vaguely remember it, but I remember feeling the same way.

>97
>zoomer
retard alert

97 is the ultimate zoomer birth year

Uhh, user, 1996+ is considered Generation Z.

Anything after 1995 is certified zoomer by every generational consensus.

>Dude. It's literially "Eggman finds jewel that makes you revisit old places
>Did the jewel transform the robots into the hard boiled heavies or is it an illusion?
>is the jewel teleporting us to different locations or is everything an illusion or is it time travel?
>Why did Heavy King transform in the final boss and fight Eggman?
>are the HBH supposed to be rebelling against Eggman or not?
>Why does the ending make a big deal out of saving Little Planet when it's never established that it was important to the story?

The fact that these are questions at all is what makes Mania's story feel sloppy. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, but it does stumble at trying to replicate what Sonic 3 was able to do flawlessly. The fact that I don't agree with your interpretation of what the ruby is supposed to be doing in Mania is the problem.

I loved the spooky aesthetic of Mystic Cave. The background used to freak me out cause it was dark.

Isn't that the same rating method Chris used for his "OC" Sonichu characters?

>generation is defined by year and not media you identified with growing up
ultra retard alert
are you really going to lump someone who's first systems were an n64 and gameboy color with fortnite faggots?

Yes and yes? It's both.

Everything expect for the last one. It's not real time travel when you got to the CD level because going to the future didn't leave with you STILL in the future, or explicitly going back to the present time, because you were illisioned there. The Little Planet later on was likely real considering how Eggman was actively looking for him. If he was faked he'd just make one up like Forces Eggman does and he'd already would have been powered up.

Because in Knuckles story he went rogue. Actually all of them did but he was the leader so he dictated his power the most.

See above, they did their own thing. At the beginning Eggman was forcefully ordering them to do his bidding, but they still did what they wanted to do. It's kinda like Metal Sonic in OVA or Mecha Sonic in Knuckles' part in S3K.

Because Eggman is capturing it again? You know it's not meant to be on """Mobius""" so Sonic had to stop Eggman again from messing with it again.

Imo all the CD parts seems to stem more towards confusion because SEGA themselves didn't seem to make it clear themselves "when does CD take place"? In Sonic 4 it's after S3K, before Sonic Adventure. In Mania it's implied heavily to be before the game itself, so at least after 3K or before it. I really can't blame Taxman's team with something SEGA themselves never made work within the context of the series. For all intents and purposes, CD wasn't canon until SA1 made Amy relevant again and Metal Sonic being a fan favor from CD to be brought back as playable in SA1/2, and a major boss in Heroes.

Yes? Because People haven't came up with a new name for 2010 fags yet. So as of right now, Zoomers are 1996+, Gen Y is 1975 to 1995, and Real Boomers are 1940s to 1970s.

So really, no one but maybe 1% of 4channel users are real boomers, 30% is zoomers, and 69% is "yoomers".

>The Little Planet later on was likely real considering how Eggman was actively looking for him. If he was faked he'd just make one up like Forces Eggman does and he'd already would have been powered up.
Meant to say Metal Sonic, cut it out by mistake.

Generation is literally defined by year. You are a zoomer, own it

>I don't know how to read

Also, adding a story ADDS to the world building and makes you care about your adventure.

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Gen X is definitely mid-60s to 80s man.

I wanna go back to 2016-2017 sonic threads, lads.
youtu.be/98eoSTr8ips

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Sonic 2 was supposed to be a time travel game.

It was changed because they had to rush, it's an unfinished game, sadly.

Also they used this concept in Mania. That's somewhat what Sonic 2 was supposed to be storywise.

I think that transitions was supposed to exist since SOnic 2, since Sonic transition from the ship to the Death Egg.

And they cut Death Egg Zone too. That's why it's so short.

Anybody who didn't at least play SNES growing up is beneath me

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"And one last thing I forgot to mention in the video"

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Literally who the FUCK could possibly care about how the fucking stage transitions in something like Sonic? It doesn't fucking matter. No it doesn't add shit or make you care about anything, it's completely meaningless fluff. If you actually value it as anything more than you would value a cute easter egg, you're fucking brain deficient.

Great music doesn't make the level design not shitty.

>Literally who the FUCK could possibly care about how the fucking stage transitions in something like Sonic?
Everyone likes the Sonic 3 level transitions, faggot. It's one of the most widely praised additions the game brought to the series.

yeah, it's why everyone wanted Mania to restore the missing ones, which plus thankfully did.

Sonic has better 2D games
Mario has better 3D Games
Prove me wrong.

>Literally who the FUCK could possibly care about how the fucking stage transitions in something like Sonic?
If nobody cared about stage transitions then the Mania devs wouldn't have bothered to include the missing transitions in the patch that released for Plus. Hell, they probably wouldn't have bothered to include transitions in the first place if it was something no one cared about.

Sonic 3 just seems to be the game that gets love the most in Mania in general.
>giant rings
>elemental shields
>transitions
>most zones returning compared to 1,2 and CD
Not that I'm complaining of course, all those mechanics were awesome.

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>the best platformer ever
For me it's Crash Bandicoot 2.

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>Sonic has better 2D games
I'd say any 2D Mario game is stronger than Sonic 1. Not saying 1 is weak, but other 2D Marios feel more tightly designed in comparison.

Why is Jared Leto dressed as Louise Belcher?

Don't forget minibosses and Blue Spheres.

Ah, right.

Sort of agreed but Mario's 2D games are better than Sonic's 3D.

Love that one too.