Who was in the right?

I will never understand why this is still talked about when the game practically tells you the Thalmor are working behind the scenes to aid the Stormcloaks by "accidentally" allowing Ulfric to escape and continue fighting the Empire, dragging the war out and potentially fracturing the Empire. Again.

This isn't even a debate. The writing for this game was shit, it is not ambiguous at all.

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thanks

first post worst post

Doesn't mean the Stormcloaks cause isnt just.

I never get far in the Skyrim main questline or civil war questline, why is it again that the Thalmor want Skyrim to end up dragging the war out and possibly claiming independence for Skyrim?
Isn't the empire literally just a puppet for the Thalmor?

Looks like the Imperials are this time.

reddit post

What? The stormcloaks were being controlled behind the scenes by the elves too. The elves wanted the imperials and cloaks to stay at war long enough for the elves to invade. The elves only lose if they ally or stop fighting. The entire war is an elf plot.

The Thalmor want Skyrim to break away from the Empire so it will weaken the Empire further and make Skyrim more susceptible to Thalmor influence. Pretty sure that in the Imperial questline you can straight up expose Ulfric for being a Thalmor agent.

No. The Empire remains a hostile state and is only cooperating at the bare minimum that the treaty requires because they are not ready for another war. From what I understand the current power balance is that the Thalmor would win a second war, but with great cost. The Thalmor want a prolonged civil war to weaken both sides and allow them to easily defeat both.

It's the main questline in the Thalmor embassy. It revealed that the creation of the Stormcloaks and the civil war is all according to just as planned. However Ulfric is classified as a non-cooperative asset.

>stormcloaks are puppets
retards STILL pushing this outright lie when theres definitive in game proof to the opposite
true fucking autism

the thalmor want to drag the war out because it means nords, who are great fighters for the empire, kill each other in large amounts. it is even a theory that when tulius captured ulfric he wanted to execute him immediately because the thalmor wanted to take ulfric back to solitude and he "accidentally" escapes.
unused dialogue confirms it.
"General Tullius, stop! By the authority of the Thalmor, I’m taking custody of these prisoners."
"Your Emperor will hear of this. By the terms of the White-Gold Concordat, I operate with full Imperial authority!"
"You’re making a terrible mistake!"
>Isn't the empire literally just a puppet for the Thalmor?
no the empire is playing the long game. they have the advantage of birth rates.

Totally depends on your character's point of view and vision for Skyrim. Either way the place is probably kind of fucked.

>Elves want to invade
>If the empire unites all of Mankind, the Elves will have a harder time invading
>If the Empire is at war with the Stormcloaks, the Empire will have to fight a war on two fronts ultimately giving the advantage to the elves.
>If the war in Skyrim ends with a Stormcloak victory this is still a positive outcome as mankind is fractured and the Nords will not likely aid the Empire after they are invaded by elves.
3 possible outcomes.
1) All of humankind united against elfkind (bad for elves)
2) Humans are fracture and not allied (good for elves)
3) Humans are still at war by the time the elves invading forcing the Empire to fight a war on two fronts (VERY good for elves)

Ulfric hates elves, he wouldn't ever knowingly work for them. That is part of the problem, he is fucking retarded and doesn't realize he is an instrument for the pointy eared jew. And keep in mind, this guy who can't piece together the fact that every time he falls under Thalmor jurisdiction he suddenly manages to escape and any time the Empire do shit to clamp the Stormcloaks it is overturned by the Thalmor well maybe these people might be using him. But no, fuck the Empire and fuck all elves. This is the guy that is going to lead an independent Skyrim. This is the best Bethesda could come up with.

Japan to Tawain begs to differ.

which is the side that allows the player to mate with as many khajiit and argonian cuties as possible?

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Neither are particularly right, but the Stormcloaks are objectively the worst possible faction that could control Skyrim. They're like the Confederate States of America.

Stormcloaks are in the right, Skyrim belongs to the Nords and they should decide happens in Skyrim. It doesn't matter though, the second a real Imperial Legion walks into Skyrim the Empire wins.

fucking retard no it isnt its stated in game that EITHER outcome is bad for the thalmor their entire goal is to perpetuate the war for as long as possible

most of the imperial legions are nord dominated lol

both are wrong but the stormcloaks are more wrong. the empire is wrong for not telling ulfric what was the overall plan and explaining to him that if he just didnt chimp out like a nigger and waited a few years they would exterminate the knife ears together, and ulfric for not allying with torygg when the kid wouldve backed his guerilla army which could have then been funded in secret by the imperials and denounced and damned by them in public with torygg disavowing ulfric to keep the facade

the stormcloaks could have operated a guerilla war against the thalmor and had backing. instead ulfric chimped out and fucked everything up

You're playing the game wrong if you're not a Nord Stormcloak imo

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(((Thalmor)))

Dumbass, the objective is to keep the war going, not end it. Ulfric is an uncooperative asset. Hammerfell still being Thalmor-free is testament to the strength Skyrim would have under the Stormcloaks.

The infrastructure of the Empire is too closely monitored and controlled by the Thalmor. The Thalmor are embedded into it. Win the civil war for the Imperials, and declare war on the Thalmor, then it collapses, and then Skyrim is next because the idiot heretic elf-fearing cunts decided to greedily save themselves from an inevitable fate.

>most of the imperial legions are nord dominated lol

the legions in Skyrim are 99% Imperial and all the generic legionary spawns are Imperial. This is not a recruitment policy, Imperials are just breeding like rabbits due to the post-war baby boom. Most of the adult males in the game EXCEPT FOR THE ELVES were born after the war.

There's a reason why the Thalmor are trying so hard to subvert the Empire, they're getting nervous as fuck at the Chink-tier breeding programs in Cyrodil. Imperial women are pumping out babies and being impregnated again and again.

>ban the regions religion
>cause political discourse between two parties
>incite a civil war between the natives
>weaken the state to rule over all

Thalmor are literal jews, how did they get away with it?

Stormfags are useful idiots for the Thalmor, doing their dirty work for them and furthering their objectives without them having to lift a finger.
Skyrim is a proxy war. The throne of Skyrim doesn't matter, it's just an object of vain glory-hounding lust for a shortsighted asshole who doesn't even give a damn about the homeless nords in his own capital.

stormcloaks, the imperials came into their land unannounced and claimed it as theirs

by killing the blades and blitzkrieging the capital. effectively ruining the information network, messages between the empire, and its command hub. also sneaky jew elf magic

Actually, after Tiber Septim kicked their ass at Sancre Tor, they willingly joined.
Are you saying they should question Talos' divine wisdom?

Seeing how shitty the blades were in morrowind and oblivion i'm not surprised they got fucking yeeted by the Thalmor overnight. They were always inept retards and the empire is better off without them, because according to Legends, the Penitus Oculatus is truly glow-in-the-dark tier and actually ruthless and effective.

Most of the Imperial Legion is made up of Imperials, specifically Colovians

yea they deserved to get blown out like that. its the fact that there were no other people doing what they did that fucked the empire. hopefully the oculatus are getting shit done in the meantime

>the Penitus Oculatus is truly glow-in-the-dark tier and actually ruthless and effective.
dark brotherhood questline says otherwise, you can't even protect your own emperor jesus christ!

There is a second assassin in the Katariah, the Emperors' death was actually an internal coup and it's likely the PO themselves were involved.

But romans are famous as shit for improving parts of the world they managed to conqure.

They better be. The Empire's only chance is diplomacy to get the independent provinces on board with the next war and intrigue to cause the Dominion's provinces to rebel at an opportune moment.

WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US?

There's a chance that Hammerfell is getting split into two factions, one pro dominion(crowns) and one pro empire(forebears) in the next game and that it'll play like a proxy war

Didn't they make amends during the war when they were besieged by the Dominion?

the imperials are on the right. stormcloaks are on the left.
regards

>spurmcucks

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I think it's a shame that there's no information coming out of High Rock, what with them being descended from elves and the Direnni still being around in some capacity.

thats because skyrim is in a full on rebellion retard do you really think most of the nords didnt leave afterwards? its why almost all the imperials are literal boot camp tier novices

Who cares, when are we seeing some crazy shit happen with chim or the towers that lore people always talk about but never seem to truly take form in the games? Can Bethesda really be expected to make us happy ever again with the way things are going?

>do you really think most of the nords didnt leave afterwards?

what the fuck are you talking about? you mean the population? or the nords in the legion? the game explicitly states the one legion left in the province is a relatively freshly raised one because the rest of the legions are stationed in the Dominion border at the south of Cyrodil, and the reinforcements are stuck at pale pass.

>The stormcloaks were being controlled behind the scenes by the elves too
the journal said they tricked ulfric into giving up info. theres literally nothing in the game stating that he worked for them willingly or that they had any further influence on him afterwards and yet this is parroted in every fucking rimjob thread. you goddamn faithless imperial

>the journal said they tricked ulfric into giving up info. theres literally nothing in the game stating that he worked for them willingly

He knew he was only released for a reason. The first fucking thing he did was go to Markarth, massacre people to spook them then, knowing the White Gold concordat was in effect, tried to force the Empire to reinstate Talos worship knowing well there wasn't an actual enforcement of the rule to complain about JUST to get the Thalmor to invite themselves in.

Then, knowing Torygg would have agreed with and followed with his plan to have Skyrim secede, avoiding the war altogether by having all Jarls follow him, he still murders him on the spot.

>or that they had any further influence on him afterwards and yet this is parroted in every fucking rimjob thread. you goddamn faithless imperial

So he just happened to do every single thing that's turned out very convenient to the Thalmor out of being a fucking retard. Whether that's the case or he agreed to shit everything up in exchange of ruling Skyrim under them, he's still the objectively wrong choice.

Bethesda has a bear fetish. Prove me wrong.

stormcloaks since the emperor dies anyways

sounds badass

>Then, knowing Torygg would have agreed with and followed with his plan to have Skyrim secede

No he didn't.

todd has a khajiit fetish

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too bad they're too retarded to fight back now that they lost hammerfell and half of Skyrim

>tfw no pretty kitty in Skyrim

>lost hammerfell
>implying it wasn't all part of medes plan to drain the resources of the thalmor on dumb desert warfare

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What can the empire do to get the Khajiit back on their side?
I don't care about the bosmer because they are dumb cannibal tree huggers.

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Literally the chance to gain the upper hand against the Dominion is gone now because the Empire didn't take it's chance once the Elves were stuck in hammerfell getting mujahideen'd

the empire was still too weak at that point.

>What can the empire do to get the Khajiit back on their side?

Literally just wait, the Thalmor have treated the Bosmer like shit in their own province, even organizing ethnic cleansings of bosmer that are too beast-like and not close to the original Aldmer enough. Even if the Khajiit are still scared shitless of the moons going out again, the Dominion can't be treating them very well, especially since they also worship non-elf gods.

The Window was the 20 to 25 year mark, the Dominion was still low on manpower the Civil war hadn't started yet and Hammerfell was looking for revenge too, the bosomer could still have been restless if the Purges were anything to go by, it could have worked and the Empire would be in favorable position

You fantastic idiots. If the Thalmor want the civil war to drag on then it hurts them more if you accelerate it by helping the TRUE sons and daughters of Skyrim win. The Thalmor would never let the Empire regain it's former strength, even if they keep Skyrim.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=V28qvTRFQd8

Have the Dunmer make the moons disappear again and then put them back, saying it was them and Azura who saved the moons from Altmer interference.

Fucking Elf lovers, all of you!

youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9QU0FXdKo
youtube.com/watch?v=7x8sRkr4Bso

The final redpill is that both sides are completely cucked by the thalmor and that you should just get as powerful as possible so you can shit on any thalmor you see

>There's a chance
0% is not a real chance

exactly correct
bear in mind that forebears and crowns hated each other since forever, them working together to remove elf has some pretty hefty ramifications for future content