Name one (1) game with better level design

Doom.

As far as FPS games go Arcane Dimensions has the best level design, but more importantly it's core gameplay is superior to the gameplay found in Half Life 2.
Almost every level is memorable, and if you haven't played it you are missing out.

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Level design in Doom is shit though, it starts off alright because level sizes were manageable, then it devolves into a series of mazes, Doom 2 is worse, Doom 64 is better. Quake's level design is far better, Arcane Dimensions takes that and makes it truly timeless.

See: Why do retarded HL2fags hate mazes? Can't remember your trail of destruction, retard?

Doom's levels devolving into a pile of shit doesn't make me a HLfag.

i dont hang out on Yea Forums a lot, is HL2fags really a thing? so oddly specific

Fair enough - I prefer DN3D anyway due to platforming

Yes, we're literally in the thread of one. Though it was MUCH more annoying in 2008, post Orange Box

I personally prefer Blood for those era of shooters but you're right on Duke being superior.

My condolences, retard. Maybe get better at games.

The maze-like disposition doesn't deter from the quality at all, and they flow naturally, almost as if whoever made those maps replayed them over and over to see what felt better, and it did. It's not just that they're big and complex, they also flow perfectly with the enemy placement.
Doom 2's maps are dogshit. Half life 2 relies on other things to grab your attention other than level design, like narrative and new gameplay features. The only map that's not really just a corridor is probably ravenholme.

Just as long as you like Blood for being like stuffing your dick into a cheese grater hard rather than for SJW reasons

Literally any game ever made.
Fuck valve play testers

Pretty much anything is better than HL2's hallways.

sjw reasons?

>1. Ocar...
Stopped reading there.

There are cucks these days who don't like the Duke, but still talk about how great Blood or Shadow Warrior are because they're less tainted by "sexism" (even though Lo Wang and his anime babes should present a problem to these cucks)

I wish more devs did in game commentary.

That's pretty retarded.

I can look past uninspired/poor level design as long as it's aesthetically-pleasing and there's good sound design.

HL2 did atmosphere really, really well thanks to this.

youtube.com/watch?v=qJTt_-n4Ncc

youtube.com/watch?v=wnMnA5Z1WkQ

youtube.com/watch?v=xbzuNK0kVHI

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The fact that you are seething after 20 years, proves that it's a masterpiece. Same thing with The Godfather

Twilight Princess
early BioShock
Metroid Prime

how do you mean by the early part of bioshock?

Dark Souls 1 easily

Dark souls 3

>objectively
objectively speaking, you are full of shit

DOOMfags have such a shallow understanding of what level design is

DOOM level design is ultimately repetitive and forgettable. level design isn't just bigger = better, its more about weapon placement, enemy placement, pacing, variety, and changing up everything to make it feel new and make you change up your strategy

Half Life level design you could be shooting, platforming, puzzle solving, navigating, interacting with enivornment or NPCs while DOOM you just shoot in the same empty looking environments

>its more about weapon placement, enemy placement, pacing, variety, and changing up everything to make it feel new and make you change up your strategy
All of which Half Life fails at and many Doom WADs succeed at.

>that level where you get the buggy and you go through the entire coast making a couple stops full of visual storytelling and cool ass combine camps

>All of which Half Life fails at
better then most shooters tard
>WADs
LOL

>better then most shooters tard
Only if you consider the shooters released after HL, since most of them followed in that games linear footsteps. Also what's funny about Doom having an active modding community decades later and having years of quality fan made levels?

>Only if you consider the shooters released after HL
nope older FPS especially DOOM have more simple and forgettable level design

>Also what's funny about Doom having an active modding community decades later and having years of quality fan made levels?
because you realized that OG DOOM level design isnt good so you try to deflect to fan mods

which again are more forgettable then DOOM and will never be mentioned when people discuss levels

All of Episode 1 of Doom is better and more memorable than all of Half Life 1 and 2. Most of Episode 2 is too and some of Episode 3.

LOL good joke, DOOM levels are so forgettable they all formed into a blob in my memory of just a brownish empty room with some demons in it

you can go show people a screenshot of a level in DOOM and a lot of people wont know what exact level it is meanwhile looking at a Half Life screenshot you will know what part of the game you are on

>DOOM levels are so forgettable they all formed into a blob in my memory of just a brownish empty room with some demons in it
The problem is you're actually dumb as fuck. No wonder you prefer games with hallway levels, its all your pathetic mind can handle.

Descent 2

He's using the right criticism for the wrong game - if he were talking about Wolfenstein 3D, he'd be right.

But levels in Doom aren't that mazelike or blobby, I don't know what the fuck is wrong with his brain.

hallways with interesting and variety in gameplay > brown empty rooms with some demons in it

>hallways with interesting and variety in gameplay
Which Half Life doesn't have.

yeah remember that level where you shoot that demon and that other level where you shoot demon

>hallways with interesting and variety in gameplay

Which is the purpose of the enemy placement my dude

Stacking boxes in HL2 is now what I consider a thrilling variety of gameplay

Dark Souls

more then DOOM could hope to have

what do you consider thrilling variety huh? shooting and shooting more?

Wrong. Levels in Doom can be based around exploration or just dead simple arenas, even in the base game. Doom has way more variety.

... yeah that's what you do in an FPS my dude

Some levels try to tell an environmental story more than others, but Doom levels are a grabbag (only half of you will get this) - some are good, some are bad. HL2 is just a long line of meh, not good, not bad, just meh.

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LOL you think shooting and exploring is more variety when I listed more variety in HL before

>Some levels try to tell an environmental story more than others
just when DOOMfags couldnt get more delusional

Why did they listen to him

Why do you play FPSes?

Half Life doesn't have much variety. The one time it did change things majorly every HLfag shit themselves at actually having to navigate 3D space somewhat, that part being Xen. Not that Xen was amazing but it was a nice change of pace.

to be honest, hes right. Why the fuck would a linear game like half-life suddenly have a random maze?

>Half Life doesn't have much variety.
again tard I already listed more variety before, stop deluding yourself to thinking DOOM isnt just a simple shooter

Half Life is the more simple shooter by the virtue of its mechanics and level design being more streamlined and casual.

can you not want more then 1 thing in a genre?

Citadel > C-17 > Ravenholm > Rebellion C-17 > Airboat Section > Jeep Section >>>>>>> Nova Prospect

LOL DOOM is so casual you dont even need to aim up at enemies the game kills them for you

Well? Don't leave me hanging faggot. Where's my protip?

Half Life 1

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Blood

Only casuals complain about Doom's lack of vert aiming.

Now I suddenly see it in a different light. Maybe he wasn't "hurr durr i turn right agen", instead "maybe this time something has changed/enemies will appear/scripted event".

Still a dumbfuck though, I'd scour the area after the second try

Half Life 1

Only casuals complain about Marathon's / Descent's lack of vertical auto-aim

Thief
Deus Ex
System Shock
Hell, even Dishonored
HL2 is just a bunch of linear setpieces, it doesn't have very good level design at all

oh look another tard that doesnt know what level design is

why was nova prospekt so fucking boring

This. The world of HL2 doesn't feel real, it's like someones first writing assignment

>And then there was a train, and then there was rebels, and then there was hot chick, and then there was zombies, and then there was alien bugs...

I'm pretty sure what level design is, and HL2's is terrible. But do elaborate, faggot

map making and level design are two concepts people get confused a lot
map making is the ability of the designer to take advantage of the games technology and push the engine to its limits in terms of polygons map size and complex geometry
level design is taking those polygons and that complex geometry and making something meaningful to the player out of it while considering gameplay story and art factors
hl2 has good map making but mediocre level design

seeoh and btw system shock level design is shit

t. faggot who hasn't gotten past e1m4

>making something meaningful to the player out of it while considering gameplay story and art factors
so you described half life and not DOOM

>anything that isn't a straight line so even a retard like me can navigate it is shit
Quite the informed opinion.

I beat the entire game, its a pretty easy game had to take breaks though cause how boringly repetitive it all was

I didnt imply that but good try kiddo

>toddler tier physics puzzles = good level design
Off yourself brainlet

The fact you think HL has good level design directly implies your retardation.

funny coming from a doomfag that thinks getting red key and putting in red door is great

half life 2 generally points you in the correct direction, but you can still get lost in the world
in doom, you are meant to get lost.
neither is the better system, it depends on who implements what and better
I'd argue that some levels in doom are great, and some are just nostalgic. Same applies to sections in HL2.

sorry kiddo but you never explained why its not bad

also before you embarrass yourself linear =/= bad

Doom levels are linear too, its just they don't expect the person playing to be actually retarded.

They also took out friendly fire because the brainlet playtesters kept killing the rebels

As much as I love Doom, stop pretending like it's this High-IQ holy grail of FPSes. It's about as trashy and B-movie as it gets.

Not even a doomfag, but unironically yes. At least Doom doesn't constantly shower you with stupid tech demo puzzles to make brainlets feel like they're intelligent.

>its just they don't expect the person playing to be actually retarded.
the fact they got colored keys and doors and the fact YOU CANT LOOK UP shows its for retards

DOOM showers you with colored keys that make brainlets feel intelligent for running around

Navigating from where you found the key to where the key goes requires more brainpower than any section in Half Life.

That's just called normal level progression. You actually think "put box on top of box" is genius level design, lmao

lol DOOMfags think this takes brainpower

Tentacle boss takes more thought on what you have to do then anything in DOOM

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>That's just called normal level progression
no normal progress in most games is killing all the monsters, not backtracking to colored doors

portal 2?

>art design is level design
Millennials and zoomers everyone

>tentacle """boss"""
>just crouch walk around it and press a button
So this is the power of HLfags...

more thought then red key to red door, you probably died 50 times before you realized guns dont kill him

>more thought then red key to red door
Finding the key and the door requires more thought than anything in Half Life.
>you probably died 50 times before you realized guns dont kill him
Obvious projection.

part of making levels is making them look diffrerent and using art to guide the player to in the right direction

>what is exploration and reward
I guess you can't comprehend the concept, considering you're used to travelling from set piece A to set piece B

>Finding the key and the door requires more thought than anything in Half Life.
objectively wrong
>Obvious projection.
yeah Im sure on your first try you realized everything you had to do and knew you cant kill him with guns amirite

I play FPS to shoot, why should I waste my time with keys and exploration when I played the game to kill monsters

>yeah Im sure on your first try you realized everything you had to do and knew you cant kill him with guns amirite
Anyone who isn't an actual retard could tell it wasn't going to die from guns or even explosives. You don't even need to stealth or use grenades either. So yes, as a non retard I realized how to deal with the problem immediately.

So why are you praising shitty puzzles as good level design? Good thing Doom has more shooting than HL, you should try playing it.

>Good thing Doom has more shooting than HL
oh too bad the shooting is worse since its only like 3 frames of animations in the weapons and sound design sounds like it was recorded though a tin can

too bad

sure you did champ, you saw all the monster before that died to guns and saw another monster and thought aw yes he cant die to guns so to kill him i must run past him activate these switches and run back to activate a blast to kill him

and then everyone clapped!

Nice goal post moving.

nice non-argument

You know one aspect of Half Life that I'll admit is good is how intuitive it is. As in anybody with a brain could tell that three giant spiked tentacles weren't going to die from gunfire, especially when you see the rocket jet above it and a giant button that says "test fire" along with three colored lights that are currently dim. Its so obvious yet makes perfect sense in universe, yet you're actually too dumb to understand the game you're defending.

The argument was about level design and you started sperging about the shooting. Maybe you should start being less retarded.

>you started sperging about the shooting
actually you did by saying DOOM HAS MORE SHOOTING LOL

>yet you're actually too dumb to understand the game you're defending.
yet was able to beat DOOM with ease :)

so if Im too dumb to understand Half Life imagine how braindead simple DOOM is

Doom is more intuitive since there's no setpieces.

based

>admits he's fucking terrible and his input changed the game
>works out for the better
fucking hell

no its more intuitive cause its braindead simple. shoot demon and put red key in red door, rinse and repeat

Who would win? The entirety of HL2, or one Doom boi?

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>comparing a game that was one of the first of its kind to a game made with over 10 years of refinement

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maybe we should stop praising the game that was first of its kind as the best game in the genre first

Is there much point in comparing the two games? They don't seem very similar. One is much more story driven than the other, while the other is primarily gameplay/shootery orientated.