Cairne spirit appears in tauren heritage chain and tells us that war against alliance is bad and how he personally...

No
Will be new warchief

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>Private servers

>was reading some of the lore
>was possible foreshadowing that suarfang was a double agent for sylvanas
>reading even said saurfang didn't kill maufurion because elune intervened
>readings said saurfang and sylvanas faked many arguments in org because they knew there were spies
>was thinking sylvanas was going to play some 4D chess to blow up the alliance

NOPE ITS OLD GODS LOL XD! SYLVANAS IS WORKING FOR OLD GODS LOL!

I'm honestly so sick of this shit writing...

Tell Grandpa Cairne to take his meds, vanilla WoW was nothing but repelling Alliance invasions in the Barrens that often spilled over into Mulgore

>him and most old school Tauren were always close to the NE
Chirst WoW was a mistake

Tauren were literal whos with 0 relationship with NE
Retroactively trying to give them relevance is fucking retarded, and their entire relationship with the elves is a big fucking excuse for tauren druids because "can't have NE only class, it would be imbalanced without some horde only class. what? what are shadowhunters? shut the fuck up"

>private
Looks like grand marshal to me

Not canon anymore
Dwarfs were welcomed in the barrens and mulgore, only non horde taurens had problem with it

WoW always had shit writing, this is nothing new.
TBC/Wotlk were even worse than BFA.

That happened in cata you fucking moronic cata baby. The zones were changed.

The opening number was this dude, user. You really thought it wasn't Old Gods all the time this expansion?

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Just like NE had 0 relationship with stormwind and were suddenly part of the Alliance (same thing with forsaken).

>two entire leveling zones retconned

...are you retarded?
Alliance literally had camp in mulgore in vanilla that shot any tauren that came near
And barrens dwarf quest was legendary bullshit

>mad about his edgy teen fap-bait being killed of

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She won't, precisely because of that.

Based paladin chad, undead faggots are even worth lifting your sword

You really don't know your lore baby...

>Got BTFO
>...lol you don't know lore, I played on nostr and during wotlk, so my overpowered character cleared every quest with easy111
Great argument

The only alliance in mulgore in vanilla is dwarfs not a part of the alliance digging for relics. They were part of the explorers league not a military outlet. The alliance coming into mulgore came in the cata revamp moron.

>what are shadowhunters?
you're moms penus.

>got BTFO
>everyone literally told you that you are wrong

>Not part of alliance
>Green for alliance, red for horde
>lol it's just explores league, and they need bombs, tanks and other shit to EXPLORE
Yeah, sure

>Doesn't understand what happaned.

All those tanks were in the cata revamp you dumb cata baby holy shit. There was literally fucking nothing in southern barrens pre cata except quillboars, quillboars, and thunder lizards.

>bombs tanks
Just tell the thread you are a cata baby and move on please.

>happaned

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>no tanks, helicopters and bombs before cata
Holy shit, just holy fucking shit
Future "Classic" players, everyone

>Dwarfs were welcomed in the barrens

Quest: Gann's Reclamation
>In solitude I wander these roads.
>The dwarves of Bael Modan show no respect for my land. Horrendous blasts drive holes deep into the ground as noisy machines rip apart the hills. Lands which once served as home and provider to my tribe are now riddled with destructive dwarves.
>Attempts at reaching a diplomatic resolution have failed. Now is the time for decisive action.
>Drive the dwarves from the Bael Modan excavation by force and bring to me the journal of their leader, Prospector Khazgorm.
>Many innocent tauren lost their lives or were forced off their ancestral birthplace when the dwarves of Bael Modan arrived. My land must be reclaimed!

>There was literally fucking nothing in southern barrens pre cata except quillboars, quillboars, and thunder lizards

Did you ignore the massive mining area full of dwarves in classic?

looks like a shit worm

classic.wowhead.com/quest=846/revenge-of-gann
OH NO, HOW COULD IT BE
FIRST I NEEDED TO COLLECT EXPLOSION THAT DIDN'T EXISTED IN VANILLA AND THEN BLOW UP HELICOPTER THAT DIDN'T EXISTED EITHER
Yeah, wotlk kids surely btfo me
holy shit, I'm scarred for classic with people like them starting complaining that some quests shouldn't exist because they skipped them on wotlk power trip

Let's see alliance retards do mental hoops on this one.

That clip is from vanilla live, i remember when it originally came out

>existed

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I don’t understand why people want horde to be the good guys anyways; I like the direction they are going with sylvanas.

Fuck pussies.

I bet these horde pansies want open borders too

Are you ok?

It's more likely Thrall again now that he returns with new model in 8.2.

Attached: THRALL.png (582x859, 605K)

>his will to live ; gone

Fucking retard you killed dwarves in mulgore during classic you fucking wrath baby

>hehhe, the perfect deflection, I'll pretend I wasn't proven dead wrong and shift focus from myself hehehe

>Want
According to 8.2, taurens under Cairne always had open boards with alliance

>Thrall and Saurfang are Anduin agents and act on his orders while serving Jaina

Source or bullshit. There is no way this is real, this is like lore suicide. Blizzard isn’t this stupid.

It's good that someone brings the actual war in Warcraft, but shit gets stale again once old gods get involved with your progression in the warfare.

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They were proxy wars.

Ghuun isn’t proper old god in my eyes since he was just an experiment gone wrong

This. There can't be 2 good guys, not when the Horde has the fucking Forsaken,Orcs and to a lesser extent, Trolls on their side.
Blizz needs to man up and go Old Horde again, with the Forsaken being a 3rd all hostile faction.

Stop you are making yourself look even more stupid

>virgin ambush vs. chad holy counter-attack

according to 8.3 they never did
don't you love wow lore

Metzen isn't coming out of retirement, he's said this several times. Thrall will probably show up to kill Sylv in a cutscene and then fuck off.

You literally blow up a dwarven helicopter in the classic barrens quest

>There is no way this is real, this is like lore suicide. Blizzard isn’t this stupid.
>Blizzard isn’t this stupid.

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but the lore was definetively dead since WOD and was on death door since TBC

>lore suicide
>blizzard isn't this stupid
The writing team has been run by self-inserts and mary sues for years user, it was inevitable

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I want this to happen. Just imagine the asspain it would create.

>Tauren were literal whos with 0 relationship with NE
>What are druids

We need to make the Alliance seem morally justified despite this being the perfect expansion to do the opposite and create drama and conflict by having the morals of the Alliance come into question when it comes to war.

Nah fuck it everything is fine and their enemy is a cartoonish super villain.

Learn to read, you fucking retard

I just want the Horde to pay for Theramore and Teldrassil

Don't @ me with Taurajo bullshit

>every tauren who participated in any kind of pvp in vanilla was canonically expelled from mulgore
>the tauren never fought against the alliance ever despite swearing a blood oath to the horde
Fucking retarded.

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>>Talanji says that zandalari don't have problems with alliance killing Rastakhan because Sylvanas made zuldrazar a legitimate war target
oooh excuse me princes, for rescuing you from the captors who violated you during a diplomatic mission after which I saved your entire shitty collection of mudhuts on a shit island from being sacrificed to a old god who wasn't even the real fucking thing.

I hope Sylvanas just gasses everything at some point. hell even the "she was playing 4D chess" ending is sounding good now because her dying means we get a "non toxic male" as a warchief. fucking pathetic that a undead Elf of all the creatures has a larger sack of balls then anything else in this fucking garbage.

As much as I liked Teldrassil, being turned into cardboard was probably the best outcome for it

The only reason either of those happened is because Alliance attacked Horde settlements. Night Elves literally started a war because they wouldn't give up some of their infinite supply of lumber.

Theramore was bombed because it was a literal war-fortification that staged an alliance siege push into Horde territory.

didn't they hire some sort of big shot writer to take care of the overarching plot in this xpac?

if so then it really doesn't show

thats why ive always played undead on horde, the only based race on this shit boomer faction

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This entire expansion feels like its a build to stopping Sylvanas and the recreation of the dismantle the Horde moment except this time Anduin gets pressured into doing it because every Alliance leader is having none of that shit again.

as much as I would like to agree, generally when you go back deeper into the sources, it's almost always the Horde/orcs doing some fuck up and the Alliance retaliating

If Blizzard wants some grey & grey morality they should have the Alliance do some actual bad things instead of them mostly accidentally killing civvies

>>Cairne spirit appears in tauren heritage chain and tells us that war against alliance is bad and how he personally expelled every tauren who raised hand against alliance from mulgore during vanilla
Ah Blizz, never change.

Nu wow lore has essentially become one giant cluster fuck of using old successful lore, and bringing the old lore back in the most autistic way. This always ends up destroying the lore itself, and then blizz has to move on to the next story to ret con. Nearly every single expansion since cata takes place in a zone that was mentioned, and then they ret con the hell out of it. Every single character in nu wow other than Anduin (who is the worst written character ) just constantly brings up past events or stories for expansions on end. Blizzard can no longer write actual good "new" characters so they have to constantly find ways to bring back old ones, be it talking to their ghost, alt universe shit, mentioned by other characters, ect. You know a franchise is dying when it relies on constantly bringing up and circle jerking their old successful story lines and characters to get people's attention.

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>accidentally killing civies
you also get your wife pregnant by mistake right?
slip . fall in her pussy and cum , accidentally!

>it's almost always the Horde/orcs doing some fuck up and the Alliance retaliating
Ofcourse it is. Orcs are aliens that don't even belong on Azeroth. them exsisting is literally a problem in itself.

Garrosh 2.0 is just as bad as Garrosh 1.0

Both WoD and BfA are nothing but dumpster fires, unsalvagable and NuBlizzard long abandoned it to work on Legion/Next Expansion

I mean, every tauren is still pissed off about Taurajo, but Taurajo was literally a mistake. I'd rather have the tauren butthurt about the Bael Modan dwarves, who actually did some bad shit.

Blizzard should make the Ironforge dwarves more imperialistic and morally grey

Most babies are the result of 'yeah, fuck condoms this time around' or 'I'm too drunk to put a condom on', or lack thereof entirely.

The Alliance should have started the war.

That quest chain in legion where you walk around the city with Anduin as he hears his citizens shit on him how he can't defend them, hes not the hero his father is ect then picks up his fathers sword. That would have worked as a great way for him to end up making a decision to try and prove himself to the Stormwind Citizens and other leaders that he can be that strong leader they need by launching a retaliatory attack on the Horde and honoring his fathers warning to them.

This all goes fucking wrong and instead of it being a small battle the Alliance win decisively it turns into a cluster fuck which results in the Horde retaliating hard and now a giant war has started.

Friendly reminder that Medivh brought them over
Without Medivh there's no first war
No second war
No destruction of Draenor
In fact, humans are to blame for the whole mess and they're morally obligated to take in at least 3 orc refugees into every home

Yeah, there wasn't anything controlling Medivh or anything

then its not a accident . its just people being fucking retarded
which i do too but i don't think it was a accident

>the war started with the burning of the tree
Didn't this shit start in Stormheim when Genn broke the cease fire?

freaking BASED
you just know his draenei wife is going to give him an extra serving for that one

Controlling the orcs too then, making them not moral agents or morally responsible for their actions
The quite literally dindu nuffin and were always good boys

>didn't they hire some sort of big shot writer
They hired Golden
Unapologetic Jaina and Anduin fan, who wrote things like drenei kneeling before Anduin, because being in presence of someone with so much light is honor for them
She also wrote how Sylvanas is proud being first female warchief

>She also wrote how Sylvanas is proud being first female warchief
Why wouldn't Sylvanas be proud of that? She's a woman, and the Horde/orcs were always led by males previously

Genn is a warmonger, it's good the Alliance have him so the balance of retardedness can be kept a bit

Why would Sylvanas care at all? She was the ranger-general of Silvermoon and only joined Horde out convenience, you think lording it over a pack of subhumans is some kind of a lifelong goal little Sylvanas Rodham Windrunner had always dreamed of since being a little girl?

Yeah but the false-flag to attack wasn't an accident either

It just sounds like pandering in an age of games ruined by fucking garbage female writing (I'm thinking primarily of GW2 / anything with Hamburger Helper involved)

She also wrote sylvanas getting triggered over bran bronzebeard calling her lass

Sylvanas' goal is still human dick like her sisters user, Anduin's gonna HOLY LIGHT kids into her

Wait what? Why would she get triggered over that?

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>anything with Hamburger Helper involved
???
She wrote the only decent parts of dragon age
>Dwarf story and all orzammar quests
>the Landsmeet drafts(aka shit we saw invery first trailer and Logain speech)
>Archer and Bethany in da2
I'm actually sure dai would be less shitshow if she stayed as a lead writter, she perfectly was aware about things you can put in the game and it will sell, and which your personal interests and opinions you should never put in the game

At least he looks like an Orc again. That shitty "World Shaman" armor he was wearing since Cataclysm looked like shit.

>that 1 tauren with all of his people dead and a giant hole where home was is now disowned by cairne's ghost
and we thought killing him off in a book was the worst they could do with him

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Yeah, but why do alliancefags keep saying the alliance dindu nuffin when they broke the cease fire in the first place?

>Nu wow lore
WoW lore was always bad, get your shit straight.
Jesus.
BFA shitfest is way more enjoyable than the cringy comicbook Paladin stuff we had from vanilla to wotlk.
>DA ASHBRINGER!!!

BFA writing is so garbage and filled with too many female Mary Sue characters it makes questing completely enjoyable.

Am I the only one who noticed every other quest NPC is a stronk woman? Vol’Dun was the worst of it.

WoW was always filled with Mary Sue.
Only here it's female so it triggers the 30 years old male trash WoW addict that still play this game 15 years later.

>WC3 Cairne: Hell yeah, lead me on warchief, let's fuck some shit up
>Frozen Throne Cairne: Now that I'm not depressed again, for sure I'm down to invading Theramore and fucking killing humans, I'm always down for a good fight
>BfA Cairne: I was always against war and really liked those alliance guys, you know

The same kind of hordefags have an insatiable need for playing the victim, most on both sides don't do this and realize that nobody's innocent and for good reason

comicbook shit started in wotlk retard

But who recommended voljin to asign sylvanas then???

Sylvanas is a literal psychopath as part of being undead. She wouldn't care, because she's willing to throw the entirety of the horde under the bus if it means furthering her goals. Her pride of being the first female warchief is uncharacteristic considering she's just using them at pawns to avoid double-hell.

Learn to take your own advice, idiot

N'zoth, probs.

>WC3
>TFT
Golden already said that few things will be rewritten in reforged

>Publication date : November 2007

And he was talking about "nu wow". Pretty sure wotlk isn't considered as "nu wow".

And the lore of vanilla is actually the biggest offense to the lore : Literally started with a complete retcon of wc3 with the night elves being helped by time travelers human self insert and his orc bro so cool that tyrande wants him to breed her.

Just like that Night Elf were ruined for good.

anything new of the loa of death?
dude was interesting
or they already ruined him?

well at least we have dark irons to fill the role of dwarves who aren't incredibly boring, maybe they can do something shady because bronzebeards are designated to be short humans/ interested in their alien heritage that they share with EVERY PLAYABLE RACE so it's not as cool as it use to be

They need to bring Arthas back to make WoW great again.

wotlk is absolutely nuwow you retard its when the whole capeshit ingame cutscenes started

Isnt Thrall dead?

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OUT FUCKING SKILLED

Somebody that actually gets it.

Source? Is there some form of cutscenes for this?

>Taurens had nothing to do with nelfs before WoW
>WoW retroactively invented a shared past for taurens and nelfs to justify tauren druids and shit up the lore because it was easier than making another unique horde class
>"hurrrrr whuddabout tauren druids, me no read so good"

>female writer doesnt understand why losing their homeland might motivate someone, let alone a group of people

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There's no Arthas anymore
Only Arner'zhulthas

dreanei wives don't exist for classic paladinchads

And people say WoW lore is better than TES, lmao.

Unironically the best part of classic is unfucking everything that wow fucked up with the lore since TBC. Also fire Christie Golden holy shit.

They're both abysmal

I've never heard anyone say this
Or even call WoW lore good for that matter, outside of rabid Blizzfags maybe
Seems to me like WoW lore's pretty much a joke to most people

No one says that

Because WoW didn't fuck the lore from WC3 at all huh

>Cairne spirit appears in tauren heritage chain and tells us that war against alliance is bad and how he personally expelled every tauren who raised hand against alliance from mulgore during vanilla
My ass.

So who will lead the undead race if they decide to kill her off?

I don't play BfA and legitimately cannot follow all the weird shit going on in the lore.

But from what I can tell, isn't this literally just the WoD storyline again?

>The Horde is inherently evil and horrible but it's ok because that's not the "real" Horde that's just the evil Horde led by the Evil leader and the players are part of the good Horde

Right? Just with Sylvanas instead of Garrosh?

It wasn't nearly as egregious. It didn't turn Eredar into refugees on space ships. It didn't turn Kael, Vashj, and Illidan evil, it didn't make muh brown orcs, or Garrosh.

Who the fuck ever said that

>log into my tauren warrior I've had since vanilla
>tons of ancient unobtainable shit in bags, high warlord title; a dutiful Horde soldier for nearly two decades
>trot over to Mulgore, my ancestral homeland
>the ghost of Cairne appears
>flood of pride washes over me at the sight of my late chieftain
>he leans in
>"LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HOW GREAT THE ALLIANCE IS"

Calia, the undead of Light

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Who the fuck gives about the modern wow "story" LMAO
Everything past Wrath is so fucking stupid it shouldn't even be considered canon

Don't forget the sunwell being fine and being a little human girl banguing a dragon (same who will bang jaina).
Therefore Blood Elves are back to normal like nothing happened (they only switched to Horde because of Asian incels).

Can't wait for the spirit of the legendary Cairne to look like some random tauren in vanilla gear

>undead Princess Menethil who was invented exactly 1 expansion ago
or
>vanilla chad quest-giver who killed Alliance alongside you, and has been the most loyal soldier possible for all of BFA

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This, I remember spending hours killing those disrespectful dwarven scum in Mulgore as a kid just for fun.
I played for free a few years ago and decided to roll a tauren, and left mulgore within like half an hour, the quest chain doesn't even take you to half the zone and they don't even bother clouding over unvisited areas anymore. I also came out overlevelled at like level 13. It was fucking miserable.
They really pandered to the players who just want to powerlevel to endgame and do nothing else, going so far as to ruin the rest of the game. I don't even know why, since they also allow those idiots to just buy their way to max level, which most of them do, so why not leave levelling and questing in the lower-level areas alone?

>find Nathanos' "this is so fucking stupid" attitude grating at first
>now sound exactly like him in response to this horrible writing

I want Nathanos to resurrect Putress and just end it all.

>That fucking Chad walk behind the rogue
HAIYAI

Why would Blizzard throw Sylvanas under the bus for no real reason by making her the leader and then killing her off?

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You act like there's a semblance of logic or consistency to WoW's lore.

Because Blizzard hasn't made a single intelligent decision in almost 20 years

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i mean they pretty much did the same with Voljin.
>declared warchief at the end of mop
>does fuck-all in wod
>dies at the beginning of legion

Blizzard's new modus operandi is to have someone important die so it seems like the story is deep and meaningful. Killing characters off is literally baby's first plot device. There is not a single talented writer at Blizzard.

It's dramatic though
>remember THIS guy? Check it out, he's dead now! Don't you feel shocked and curious to what's gonna happen next? Remember to stay subbed to find out!

I wish they used rape instead, but i guess thats not cool these days.

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No, I don’t think that ever got mentioned again. It started in silithus when goblins killed dwarven explorers and both sides started hoarding azerite. The night elves were bringing shipments back to the tree and sylvanas nuked them thinking they were gonna bomb the horde

>you just know his draenei wife is going to give him an extra serving for that one

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Because she definitely wasn't seething that Genn took her precious chance at immortality

I still hope they have something different planned for her, they can't be that dumb

The faction warfare is a meme that should fuck off or stay far in the background.

Horde are cucks, especially the players. This has always been the case. Are you upset you just realized it? Should've rolled the Chadalliance.

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Literally the entire Horde leaders except fucking Sylvanas and Garrosh were traitors from day 1 what the hell

>No, I don’t think that ever got mentioned again
She literally used and this even and Genn going unpunished to convince every single horde leader to attack first because Anduin can't control his servants for shit

USA is a victim cause Iraq wouldn't give up some of their infinite supply of oil

>LorThemar orders you to kill fellow blood elves who are pro war
No he doesn't, he just has you go after Baine and some Sunreavers attack you at that time. I don't think he was even there.

The same person leading trolls

Come home white man

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>wotlk ends
>Thrall wants to fuck off and do shaman stuff
>chooses Garrosh to be the leader
>literally everyone says that's a dumb idea including Garrosh
>Thrall says it's fine because Cairne and Voljin will advise him
>Thrall gone for 5 minutes
>Cairne immediately challenges him to a duel because he thought twilight hammer orcs killing druids was Garrosh
>Cairne dies like a bitch because of Magatha
>Voljin says that he is going to assassinate Garrosh to his face
>Voljin gets super asspained when Garrosh kicks him out of the city because of it
>Orgrimmar burns because of deathwing
>needs lumber to rebuild
>asks to trade with night elves and their wisps of infinite lumber
>Night Elves tell Garrosh to fuck off because MUH WRATHGATE
>only option left is to take what they need to not die by force

How could Garrosh be such a horrible person that starts a war and murders his allies for no reason?

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>It started in silithus when goblins killed dwarven explorers

SI:7 attacked goblin miners, who were noncombatants in a neutral zone. This whole bullshit was started by the Alliance but don't expect anyone on the writing team to remember any of that, as they are apparently manatees in a tub.

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Not comparable.

It is retarded though, because it means that not only did the Night Elves just stand by and watch as the Tauren were almost exterminated by the Centaur, the Tauren also never told the Orcs that the Night Elves even existed.

That’s the poison

Yes, the Chad Alliance, consisting of
>humans, THE main characters
>short hairy sidekicks to humans
>much shorter autistic sidekicks to humans
>purple druid sidekicks to humans
>blue plot device alien sidekicks to humans
>humans who can turn into dogs briefly
What a based faction, I sure love seeing 10 humans in every prominent scene because the other races exist solely to fluff human cocks in the plot

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Bael'dun was literally built by wiping out an entire tribe of Tauren in the region.

Uh oh Varian is dead should we have the these thousand year old racial leaders become the new leader of the alliance or should we have a 15 year old human boy with zero experience do it?

>horde leveling bug introduced
>no patch because it's horde side
Call me when they pandering to alli and I might resub.

Those miners murdered dwarven explorers in their sleep first

TBC did 10x more damage to the story than wrath.

>Velen is older than space debris, can see the future, helped destroy the Burning Legion, is singlehandedly the most powerful living thing on Azeroth, only Khadgar even comes close
>"Let's make this teen boy the head writer wants to fuck the leader"

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>Hey Cairne, I'm sending my main piece Grom over to Ashenvale to harvest lumber. You being a local and shit, anything we should look out for?
>Cairne: Nah, dude

According to what? There were no dwarf miners in fucking Silithus ever.

It's more that the Horde as a villain force just doesn't make sense logistically
You can't just have the two factions in open war permanently with neither gaining any ground anf you can't have them constantly destroying each other's lands

No, they didn't. That scene in the book happens after questing.

>Talanji says that zandalari don't have problems with alliance killing Rastakhan because Sylvanas made zuldrazar a legitimate war target
Confirmed fake

Old Nathanos sure, but the Legion-beyond self insert one is awful.

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>I don’t understand why people want horde to be the good guys anyways

Read the forums. The current Horde is presently Alliance subversive types who want it to be a copypaste "muh honor" clone of the Alliance. Anyone who expresses the desire to be an actual orc, undead, etc. is shouted down by legions of fat women.

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>muh victim complex

Nathanos is the same snarky Sylvanas dicksucker he was in vanilla, now he just has a more prominent role

Does this look fun to you people? MMO's are so garbage.

Garrosh and Varian were the leaders the game needed. Sylvanas should be a some sideshow shit.
youtube.com/watch?v=tC-ol6xY5zQ

>"bawwww this whole war started by horde"
Actually the very first story point was Gallywix finding azerite, sending miners and SI:7 killing them off to steal it.
>"wooooow victim complex much?"

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>There is no way this is real,

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Sylvanas was invading an allied force and would have cocked up the war effort against the Legion completely

This is the critical mistake the whole fucking fanbase and devs are falling into - arguing endlessly about who instigated what and trying to apply real life sense to a fantasy setting that was originally steeped in prejudices between different factions.

As soon as you apply real life causality rules to the warcraft universe you get the shit story that we got after LK. Not saying Wow has ever had a good story, but it did really jump the shark after LK.

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>this is like lore suicide.

THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING

>horde leveling bug introduced
good thing when it was general it took 8 hours to fix
fucking blizz . it was the only fun momment of mist

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From what I can tell, WoW has basically one trick up its sleeve as writing goes, and that is "Pick a character that's been in the game world for a long time, and make them the revolving point for a the world to swing around and inevitably end in their death/imprisonment/putting on a shelf for later."

It's the comic book mentality. They know they can't just invent compelling villains from thin air, and write them well enough to build them up over the course of the expansion, so they have to rely on turning existing characters into powerful villains because it bypasses our need to have who they are explained to us.

The problem is, of course, that these people may have built goodwill from the fanbase over the years and that's thrown out the window the second they become not only irredeemably evil out of nowhere, but also a new faction the players can't be involved in at all.

I wasn't the post you were responding to, I'm just pointing out that playing the victim is a favorite game here
Thank you

Why a fucking undead lich would care about that?

>played warlock and rogue thorough vanilla
>can't decide whether to play warrior, hunter, warlock or rogue in classic
Are dps warriors fun? To me it looks like they just build rage and occasionally do bloodthirst and whirlwind in pve and mortal strike / heroic strike in pvp, alongside charge/intercept
Hunters could be fun alt since gearing them should be sufficiently easy, considering you can get bis stuff from bwl rather easily

Gonna need source for that.

>As soon as you apply real life causality rules to the warcraft universe you get the shit story

If you don't apply real life logic to your story it's just a lot of flashy imagery that doesn't mean anything. Fans will also try to apply real life logic to it anyway because they aren't autonomous cretins.

The real problem with Warcraft lore is it's been written by no less than ten different people, most of whom have never met, over half of whom never did any research on prior plot points and now makes zero sense. Every character you know by name looks like an idiot at all times because their current actions contradict what happened in the past in an endless conga line of pea brain buffoonery. "Thrall wakes up and it was all just a horrible dream" is unironically the only option left that doesn't come off as incredibly stupid.

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>invading an allied force
They weren't allied until like 7.2. Also they did nothing for the war. Also Odyn doesn't care about anything as long as you beat some dudes in a fighting pit.

Did you praise the Dark Lady today Yea Forums?

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How long till a world revamp that makes leveling fresh and fun again?

There was a female Orc bound in a pig-pen in WoD if I remember correctly.

>Also Odyn doesn't care about anything

This, Eyir was REEEEEing the entire time and Odyn just said "lol calm your tits bitch it was funny"

Where?

The story is written in a way that Genn is vindicated and Sylvanas is evil. There has been zero consequences for Genn commiting treason and killing a entire legion of SW's best troops. Rogers is also still sitting around on her fat asshole instead of hanging from a rafter.

If the story was at all realistic Genn would be tried for high treason by the other leaders and Rogers would be hanging from an arch in SW as an example of a dumb cunt that can't follow orders and started a war with a genocidal warlord that uses uncombatable chemical weapons of mass destruction.

But instead we're left with a story where Sylvanas has gone from a morally ambiguous pragmatist to an outright murdering cackling warlord, so we can have a really fucking awful "resistance" storyline.

And Jewlywix totally didn't want to sell the azerite to Sylvie so they can make weapons out if it to attach the allowed l allience. Haha who would even think of that!

During one of the Horde questlines in their first zone.

>Muda muda muda

Yeah but she almost helped Hella
And FUCK THAT HO THIS WILL NOT STAND

wow should die and in it's place should emerge dnd based mmo, since that has actually good world and you can build just infinitely stories around it, unless you are retarded and go around killing gods and take their place

In one of the Frostwolf quests where you save a female orc from the Thunderlords there's a female orc with her hands tied to the ground in a pig pen.

>unless you are retarded and go around killing gods and take their place
that sounds like the fun part of it

And what dose the Alliance wanna do with it?

Shit like this is why I stopped caring about the story. My character is an undead, I'm going to plague or kill you if I feel like it. Go cry into Anduin's or Thrall's lap if that bothers you, you big faggot.

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Who cares if Helya gets helped, she's irrelevant.

I LIKE DIRT
AND DIRT LIKES ME

DnD doesn't have a world
If you're referring to Forgotten Realms, you're fucking retarded
Take your kitchen sink schlock somewhere else

Really? A story should follow the logical conclusions of the universe it is based in, not the causality arguments that our lives are based in. This mistake is what made game of thrones shit and it is what made warcraft shit. Writers arguing about concepts like justice, democracy and war crimes when these concepts have barely had any time to develop naturally.

Warcraft used to have characters like Garithos, Daelin Proudmoore, lady Vashj and many others who acted in their own interests while still being likeable. Now every character is either a mary sue or a complete moustache-twirling villain - Just because the story is constantly being produced from the mindset of the audience and not the character logic.

We've had threads like this back before BfA came out and they were all wrong.

Neverwinter already exists though.

you run out of lore real fast if you take the place of gods though
You have tons of races and you could make specific characters for roleplay, like good dark elfs lol after completing some epic quest chain with very steep difficulty

>Does this look fun to you people?
Get a load of this pleb. Having godlike characters with ludicrous gear walking around 1 shotting people is great. You get your buddies to take them down, then they get their buddies and you butcher each other. I still remember yelling on teamspeak when i saw a thunderfury for my mates to watch the fuck out because pain was coming. It didn't matter that my dick wasn't as big as that guy's, what mattered was having fun.
Idiots these days bitching that their dicks aren't equal to other dicks so they can wobble their dicks in a certain way to slap the other dicks. Fuck your equality.

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>"subscribe to putress, lads"

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Really? I thought forgotten realms were just part of dnd
I don't see how forgotten realms as base for mmo would be a idea desu, you could make expansions around a plane or god and even have their avatars become bosses

>reading quests
>knowing the lore
>not rushing to 120 just to PVP
Lmao virgin WoW players. I leveled to 120 and have no idea of the story.

>good dark elfs
>haha wouldn't it be epic if my char was Drizzt
Jesus Christ

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well , just make them inmortal like old gods were before they ruined it
plot twist you don't actually win , just arthas but without the retarded ending

At this point there is zero reason to know the story, it's all just tiresome and meaningless at this point

there's a difference between being morally grey and doing questionable things for your own livelihood and being a saturday morning cartoon villain. the players have no reasonable justification for following her anymore given how batshit insane she's become. she's done more evil shit than onyxia, vancleef, or the dark irons ever did and we murdered them all without a second thought.

I wouldn't mind that if you literally were shunned by everyone in all cities and all you could do was party with good races, but you couldn't repair your shit or buy anything
Imagine good demon and clerics still getting extra bounty for killing you and stupid shit like that
The point is that you shouldn't be able to, even the most OP stupid shit in forgotten realms isn't able to take out gods unless the god is bored and wants to lose

I still think that Sylvanas's redemption should be pumped into her hungry cunt by Anduin's holy cock.

imagine the 100lb manlet who created this

Maybe I'm missing the irony but I'm pretty sure you just suggested making Everquest, 20 years too late.

>The point is that you shouldn't be able to,
so like i said? ok

The problem is blizzard gives zero explanation for anything Sylvanas does. Everytime they say that by the end everything Sylvanas does will make more sense and she isn't going to be Garrosh 2.0.

seething

just make new one then?
I can't think of good stories around which to build mmo's

But so was he

>just make new one then?

So some kind of Everquest 2? 15 years late on that one.

It could ##### but they should make new one, one to kill wow

prove it faggot

>wow lore is going to infect the warcraft 3 reforged
>blizzard is going to waste time on shoehorning those two cunts in
>Implementing that stupid fucking elf eye brow thing

Those stupid fucking Eyebrows, I HATE IT

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am service member, can confirm

I miss when WARCRAFT actually had something to do with WAR.

Is it possible to take WoW's code, and just push it somewhere else? So don't have to put up with the rube goldberg machine of dead rabbits to do something as simple as a matching game?

They had a camp in the south east

>Not a single one posts source

Bullshit confirmed.

What about the >next< Everquest after 2? Maybe call it Everquest Next? Surely it will be the WoW Killer mmo

It's too late to kill WoW, you don't get credit for what time already did.

A joke being in poor taste doesn't mean everyone who responds to it is angry, it's okay to have poor taste by latching on to memes user

>Guys
>Guys wait
>No guys wait
>What if
>Guys
>GUYS
>What if
>What if we
>GUYS C'MON
>What
>What if
>What if we
>Okay
>What if we did what we did
>Y'know
>What we did
>In uh
>Uh
>Fuckin'
>What we did in Warlords
>What if we did what we did in Warlords
>Like
>Like
>Again.

What game?

Heal the planet. Magnifying is canonically only allied with the Alli. Hurrde didn't set foot into the world soul chamber.

Wow is still most popular mmo in the market though?
To kill it is to make game centered around community play and not make another singleplayer game with ability to join with random people for stupid shit

>being a hordecuck

Garrosh did literally nothing wrong. Had the two people who was supposed to support and advise him not immediately gone against him, things could have turned out for the better. Cairne could have easily negotiated a deal for Ashenvale lumber for the Horde, but he was too obsessed with seeing Garrosh as the villain.

>she isn't going to be Garrosh 2.0.

well they've fucked themselves then. because the way they're currently writing her is making the entire playerbase hate her and want her dead, so people are going to expect to be putting her head on a pike sometime soon. but if she isn't going to go raid boss status then you have egregiously shit writers who have no idea how to create a character with realistic motivations, and whatever they're planning for her is just going to come off as a gigantic asspull, which will annoy the remaining 5 people who may still actually like her and wanted some sort of coherent narrative for her and royally piss off the people who have wanted her dead for the entirety of the expansion.

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so prove it faggot????

The Old Gods plot line is the single best thing that happened to Warcraft lore since BtDP.
It's currently the only thing keeping me remotely interested in the shitshow that's WoW story.
I don't even play the game anymore.

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There is no burden of proof to be had user, confirming that you only care about already-stale memes and garnering attention is what makes it poor taste and your posting poor form

>Sylvanas will heroically sacrifice herself
>It will turn out that she was manipulated by an Old God or that Black dragon prince all along, so she becomes a victim rather than the villain that she actually is.
Calling it right now.

so no proof. got it retard

yshaarj was a pretty wrong thing to do, but his original characterization had been completely removed by that point so it's hard to attribute that to him and not just blizzard writers desperately mashing the RAID BOSS NOW button.

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Void faggotry ruined the Old Gods

>tfw gonna annihilate horde 3rd worlders in classic
no butthole in the shimmering flats will be virgin after im done with it

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So you want Ashran back? Sure, it's coming back in 8.2.

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It did.
They got demoted for actual gods, to just giant tentacle monsters. But it's still better than any of Alliance vs Horde farce or time traveling old Horde from Draenor, green Jesus or god forbid Med'an

Ion doesn't care, he makes lots of money and has a giant penis.

Screened

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Can someone put into words why every class feels godawful to play now? Even just a year ago playing Legion I recall several fun specs, but I can't quite pinpoint why.

>pissing the retards who wanted her dead
i see no problem
>i like her , i don't expect coherent shit

I almost want this to happen just so every corpse-loving waifu-fap-baiter will be triggered till the end of existence

You gonna pretend your response to that image wasn't one of complete butthurt?

>Golden brought Cairne's spirit back to pussify him as she did with his son as if wasnt already enough
What a despicable woman

Old gods are void lords' creation.
Sylvanas is stated to be void's enemy.
Undead are immune to old gods' corruption.

She is being manipulated by the force of those who reign in the lands of Darkness and rule the souls of the dead.

>thinking I care if niggers murder niggers
Close, but no cigar user

>is making the entire playerbase hate her
Is everyone really playing Alliance now?
Are their racials that overpowered?

>she’s not Garrish 2.0
>she just started war on the Alliance by annihilating one of their cities in Kalimdor
>and has gone through extreme measures to the point where other Horde leaders distrust her
>and has cast Saurfang out
>and has recently restored to using an Old God Weapon to give her an edge against the Alliance

Haha, get fucked UD rogue shitter.

Other way around, in both points.
But a lot of Horde players are pissed because her and the rest of the forsake are making the entire horde look like Saturday Morning Cartoon villans.

Cairne and Tauren in general have always been pussy mary sues.

Gaius Baelsar of course

WoW just neutered them from savage brutes to some lazy amerindian noble savage living in harmony with nature analogy

>making the entire horde look like villans.
Instead of looking like what? Sisters of Mercy?
It's Horde, and she's a WARchief.

They're native americans whose name is an anagram for nature. They were not brutes in WC3.

>and has cast Saurfang out
People seriously care more about MMO-original characters than the historical RTS figures now?

She is a WARchief not a WAR CRIMES chief or even KILL ALL LIFE Chief, hence she is getting removed and you forsaken cucks are getting a new racial leader. Enjoy your cuckening.

When the fuck is Wrathion going to show up again? He was all up in arms during Mists about getting an army to defend against the Legion, yet when they finally showed up he was a no-show.

There's nobody left from the RTS to care about. Blizzard gotta have their raid bosses.

Nah, Furfags and NElves are the only ones getting cucked. No way Blizzard is going to kill off their prime fapbait character and alienate their fanbase of horny manchildren.

tbc lore was bosses with 3 lines of va, constant cringy machinima was wotlk

Yes they were

They took all of the abilities away and changed it from a priority list of actions to a light up proc slot machine because someone in charge of this shit is a degenerate gambler and thinks everyone likes luck-based gameplay.

is right.
TBC started the trend of turning Warcraft characters into loot pinatas for the MMORPG.

How? Their whole arc was trying to escape the Centaur and live in peace.

They have a retarded policy now where they have the "base" of what a class should be that they return to at the start of every expansion to add onto it in different ways
This results in each spec feeling like samey shit at the start of the expansion and unless the new abilities in the new expansion are fun, they're gonna stay that way
The Legion weapons had a lot of cool abilities and a sense of progression about them, while the BfA necklace does not

He was probably some ex-writer's sacred cow. Dude left so who gives a fuck about Wrathion now?

Their arc was that they were being genocided by Centuar.

Windwalker Monk didn't really change that much from Legion to BfA other than Touch of Death and Storm, Earth and Fire being on the GCD. At least for the first raid tier as I quit after killing G'huun so it's been a few months.

That's not them being savages, that's the trail of tears.

Their arc was to survive, they were losing against the centaurs
And then they pledged a blood oath to Thrall and joined him in war, so much for that living in peace

FUCKING THIS

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And they've done nothing since but smoke peace pipes and fuck around with druids. The only Tauren part of the war are the grunts nobody cares about.

faction war could be the best thing ever if blizzard weren't fags
remember the Horde butthurt when the6 were camped because the alliance had ilvl 400 item quest? imagine if blizzard as result gave quest where Sylvanas gave you a quest to go kill alliance players below level 60

Why are the villages so small? Every town in this game has enough housing for a maximum of 10 people, if that.

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>remember the Horde butthurt when the6 were camped because the alliance had ilvl 400 item quest?
No, I quit the game before that happened.

This user gets it.

It's just like halo 5 and 6. After releasing only failures that drives away fans because they wanted to do send boring uninspired shit they spin around and say "WE'RE BRING BACK THE OLD STYLE LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS".

Because it's a game? Do you really think you would be able to run from Stormwind to Ironforge in like a half hour? They're representative

Yes, that's why I said WoW neutered them
They went to Mulgore because
>Thanks to you, young warchief. But the centaur drove off all the game in this region, and I cannot allow my people to starve. Soon, we must head north to the verdant grasslands of Mulgore
They established Thunderbluff after Reign of Chaos and were still fighting the centaur in Frozen Throne, when Rexxar went and recruited them to fight in yet another war that Cairne was happy to do once you'd rescued Baine

Because it was made in 2004. Also, the continents are only about 10-12 miles long, vertically.

Great source senpai

Based as fuck

They wanted to go for the strong Women angle back at the start of legion but they soon realized she is an unforgivable bitch so it hasn't panned out at all.

and/or the Time of Troubles is going on. The thing where gods were forced into mortal bodies and a lot of them got killed because they had no idea how to mortal. Fun times.

vanilla and tbc lore is bad but it's not aggressively in your face, you have to read tomes and stuff, in wrath they got more cinematic so the bad lore is slapping you in the face

I still have nightmares about the "there must always be a lich king" whole thing.

But user, without retarded leader like Arthas, undead will become even more dangerous

T'was just a prank mon!

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>implying wow ever had good lore
>implying the warcraft franchise ever had good lore
>implying blizzard ever wrote good plots
>implying video games could ever have stories as good as even a mediocre book
video games always have, and always will have, subpar writing as long as it's done by tech geeks.

>he thinks the writing is done by tech geeks
I don't think I can take literary criticism from a smoothbrain like you too seriously

Blizzard did all of those things well up until Cata/SC2/D3 era.

>wow past TBC
>lore
>warcraft lore in general
>videogame lore in general
lmao@u

I know this is bait but wc3 is for me one of the video games with the best kino moments.
Only BB managed to top it.

>" What is this? What are you doing, my son?"
>"Succeeding you, Father"

Tfw this is just election projection with hashtag notmywarchief

Burning Crusade was not good lore. Even classic WoW was pushing it.

So what, are they going to give us the retard known as Thrall back?
He failed at fucking everything.
What other options are there? Bane the Pathetic? Saurfang the Contrived?
I don't even understand why the Blood Elves are in the horde anymore. I don't even understand what the horde is doing, it's like they're retarded.

I think the big wtf-ery started sometime during TBC. Vanilla and TBC at launch had plenty of references to out-of-game materials, but they were just references. Things like a sword named Fang of Korialstrasz, after a dragon that appeared in a nove, and an elite mob in Ghostlands that borrowed its name from a villain in the Ghostlands comic. Little things that you either 'got' and maybe scored a smile or two, or didn't even notice they were references in the first place.

Then came the Sunwell patch, and suddenly everyone who hasn't followed tie in materials religiously is hopelessly lost. Kalecgos and Anveena were now priority number one despite never being mentioned before.

Burning Crusade had its moments. Mostly things that were completely new - the Arakkoa, those space mummy traders I forgot the name of, the remains of Farahlon and the Kirin Tor expedition there, and Auchindoun and Murmur.

Notably absent from the list of acceptable lore: every single raid.

Dude. Do you have any honor?

>Notably absent from the list of acceptable lore: every single raid.
And non-broken Draenei. And Blood Elves joining the Horde, and being Paladins, and just a fucking list of other shit.

Yeah I figured it was easier to only list the stuff I liked, and make a side note on how none of the raids made the list.

I honestly resent that they even retcon'd Outland like they did
I mean I get that they "had to fill it with content" and whatever, but I still don't like it
Just give me my Mars with floating rocks and demon gates back

>Burning Crusade had its moments
"The hunter is nothing without the hunt", or something like that was the only decent moment of TBC.
Rest was garbage. They raped Kael. Even the normies hate it and turned it into a meme.

>>Talanji says that zandalari don't have problems with alliance killing Rastakhan because Sylvanas made zuldrazar a legitimate war target

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This is one of the reasons why I'm rolling Paladin in Classic. Fuck UD Rogues. Also, how do you get that geared and not know how to deal with reckadins?

no, I'm with Jaina

>it's okay Goldberg my friend, nazis were at war so nothing wrong with what they did!
can you imagine

Seething

>The Alliance should have started the war.
Technically they did but it was heavily overshadowed by them falling into Sylvanas trap, the nelves getting their tree burned and the alliance being eternal victims.

>be undead main since late vanilla
>was alliance dwarf warrior in vanilla
>learned to accept how much better horde is
>love undead because thy are actual villains
>loved the wraith gate killing everyone
>loved the burning of the tree
>Love playing the villain
>patch 8.2 ptr
>literally everyone is out to kill sylvanas
>not one horde leader likes her
>told we were put into a trap by her by the naga
>thrall, saurfang, baine, lorthamar, fuckin everyone wants her dead
>it's not garrosh 2.0 we promise

I was hoping the writers could hav the intelligence to do a 4d chess situation. But they obviously fucking don't.

Is it so wrong for me to want to play a villain in the game? I went away from the alliance because they are boring and written like shit.

I will never not be mad at how the bronze dragon from the mag'har quest said in every other timeline garrosh was a beloved and standup warchief but we were the only timeline that got Saturday morning villain garrosh because Blizzard writers have a massive throbbing erection for fucking over horde leaders while cock fluffing the alliance

This. The alliance was going to do a full on war at the wound bringing a whole army to kill the goblin miners.

Sylvanas took advantage of this stupidity and burned the tree

Just reintroduce Med'an at this point and fuck it some more

Undead shouldn't have been part of the horde in the first place. People who complain about lore now are retarded because it was always stupid.

Since when were you under the impression he ever left at all?

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and night elf shouldn't be alliance

The weird thing is they were making warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft at the same time, they had plans for this, and they still managed to make the factions seem a bit forced.

Tauren+Thralls Orcs+Darkspear=New Horde in kalimdor, that's all good.
But the Forsaken weren't properly set up in half a campaign in tft, and their connection to the new horde was weak.

Night Elves just teaming up with stormwind humans is also really weird, they should've had stronger diplomatic ties to Thralls horde than them.
I think they really messed up by acting as if species=nation, and nation=faction, like you have wow fans who talk about the king of the alliance, that shit shouldn't make any god damn sense. They could've handled this factions stuff subtler with more degrees, but that's a harder sell I guess.

Who do you think Anduin is?

It's not Undead, it's just Forsaken, but I don't think they get that across very well in WoW. WC3 gives a decent enough reason for them to want to join the Horde.

If they gave players of a certain race the ability to choose which faction they wanted to join, it would be too complex when you think about capitals and such.

But those 10,000 year old leaders are dumb as fuck as well and constantly get killed, kidnapped or mindbroken anyway. Might as well go with the gary stu son of the last gary stu king

I would have just had all the same capitals, just keep night elves and undead as their own factions. Would at least be interesting to see how it played out.

But she's always existed she just hasn't shown up until recently is all. Also fuck Nathanos, he's nothing but a thirsty faggot now that's become a literal self insert. Asshole makes me hate that my mage of the same name for years is fucking joke now

>never played WoW save for one time on a private server
>follow """""the story"""""" and post in threads only because you like Sylvie

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It's not real.

The simple answer is everyone was upset that anyone replaced Thrall even though he was a shit character by then. They decided from moment one that he'd be a villain and to just toss all that character building out a window when he'd be the literal best option as a warchief

>WC3 gives a decent enough reason for them to want to join the Horde
What? Sylvanas and her faction had had 0 contact with Horde
Horde had no presence on that side of the giant ocean between them
The whole dynamic is still based on the idea, my enemy's enemy is my friend
But the Alliance wasn't Thrall's enemy, there was no Alliance, Theramore had essentially a non-aggression pact with Orgrimmar with Jaina dedicated to keep the peace and Thrall having no quarrel so long as they didn't start anything
Stormwind was a non-presence, it's actually a little ridiculous that they're suddenly the "head figure" of the Alliance considering they were destroyed in the first war and was only being rebuilt after the second war and nowhere to be seen during the third
Theramore WAS essentially Alliance in the Third war, while Kul Tiras and Gilneas and Stromgarde survived the Scourge, the alliance had fallen and the remnant followed Jaina over the sea
Horde and Theramore had no quarrel after the Frozen Throne, there was no reason for Sylvanas to ally with the Horde unless your baseline starting point is that there is an Alliance that they need to guard against and the Horde is the other great power

>It's the comic book mentality
This, exactly this. WoW feels like Marvel or DC in game form.

This. They don't get that Night Elves in WoW =/= Night Elves in Wc3. Their only purpose is to be the human lapdogs.

>Horde had no presence on that side of the giant ocean between them
>The whole dynamic is still based on the idea, my enemy's enemy is my friend
Thrall needed a staging point in Eastern Kingdoms and Sylvanas needed help dealing with the Scarlet Crusade and the Alliance in Hillsbrad. So they allied out of necessity. This makes more sense than Night Elves turning against the people that helped them kill Archimonde and siding with a group of humans they've never met.

>But the Alliance wasn't Thrall's enemy
Stormwind was Thrall's enemy, Dwarves do whatever Humans tell them and Gnomes are a meaningless meme race. Therefore the Alliance was Thrall's enemy.

>Stormwind was a non-presence, it's actually a little ridiculous that they're suddenly the "head figure" of the Alliance considering they were destroyed in the first war and was only being rebuilt after the second war and nowhere to be seen during the third
None of the Alliance makes sense in classic. They're all suddenly just "alive" and have huge cities despite Azeroth (the southern continent) having been razed to rubble. The reason WC3 takes place in Lordaeron is because there was nothing left in the south at the time. Then WoW rolls around and suddenly Iron Forge and Stormwind are back and bigger than ever, with standing armies that can rival the current global superpowers.

Fact of the matter is that Alliance just gets shit handed to them that they shouldn't. Night Elves allied with SW for no reason, Draenei just so happened to crash on an island near Teldrassil for no reason, Worgen just so happened to get attacked by Horde and then have Night Elves show up to help them for no reason, etc. Same goes for allied races.

It's been about 20 years since I played it, but Rexxar learns Theramore is planning to attack Orgrimmar and break the truce. The trolls, tauren and blood elves have better reasons but forsaken were going to lose Lordaeron when the humans came to take it back. Sylvanas needed somewhere to turn.

My point is exactly that without the existence of Asspull-Stormwind and by that proxy the grand Alliance with a global presence and whatever, the Forsaken didn't have any real reason to join the Horde
So it all comes down to the decision "dude, we need the Alliance vs Horde dichotomy lmao", in which case they need to first resurrect the Alliance in some form and then assign all the outliers into either camp, only coming up with the justification ad-hoc, like why are nelfs and orcs fighting? "U-uh lumber I guess? Even though elves can produce it infinitely and regrow forests instantly, but just ignore that part"

>Thrall needed a staging point in Eastern Kingdoms
Stopped reading here.
WHY?
The entire point of wc3 orc campaign is to fuck off for ever from eastern kingdoms.
Why do you want to turn Azeroth into modern earth with insta connections and a USSR vs NATO conflict?
It's a fantasy world ffs. It should be filled with multiple small kingdoms and unkown.

It wasn't Theramore attacking the orcs, it was Daelin Proudmoore with a fleet of Kul Tirans he'd come over with and in the final fight they even make a point of you not killing Theramore people, only Kul Tirans and assassinating Admiral Proudmoore (with Jaina's blessing mind you) and then Jaina and Thrall agree to stay out of each other's way

Because Kul'tiras, SW, and most other human nations were still at war with Thrall.

>why are nelfs and orcs fighting?
Maybe because they have a city of plundering savages (as they see it) on the back doorstep that are just going to continue desecrating their ancestral home. At some point it comes down to because it's a video game. I mean how hard could it be to cast frostbolt? Why can't a shaman do it?

Then why didn't the Kul'tirans side with the Alliance immediatly?
You missed the whole context : Admiral Proodmoore didn't even expect to find orcs here. He just kill them because he's scared of them. They weren't even part of the nu alliance and Thrall btfo them.

What war? Since when? Kul Tiras was btfo in Frozen Throne, their head of state killed and their whole army destroyed
So far as anyone knew, SW wasn't even a thing
Gilneas isn't a threat on its own, Dalaran was razed to the ground
Only Stromgarde would have had any actual leg to stand on and they had nothing to do with Thrall, so far as they knew the orcs had fucked off who knows where
And the Alliance forces, pooled from all the former Alliance kingdoms (including Silvermoon that had since left the Alliance) went with Jaina

Right, because it's a video game they could have done anything, but they chose to do this because they're fucking retarded
That's precisely the point

I'm not arguing that the Lore is well-written, I'm just giving you the reasons why things happened according to Blizzard.

>SKELETON VIRGIN WITH NAIL CLIPPERS VS. THE GOLDEN WRATH OF GODS CHAD

OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU

Attached: 1547690393598.jpg (1130x711, 541K)

Given how they're turning horde leaders/characters into peace loving alliance apologist, I wouldn't be surprised if Talanji joined the bandwagon.

reminder that this is the current state of wow storytelling and it won't get better anytime soon
>DUDE OUR STORY IS GREAT
>WOAH WE HAVE SO MANY GREAT WRITERS
>DUDE [Character] IS SO COOL
>AH YES I LOVE [CHARACTER] TOO
>AND [Character] IS EPIC TOO
>YESSS I LOVE [Character]
>WE'VE GOT SO MANY COOL THINGS COMING FOR [Character]
>AND DON'T FORGET HOW AWESOME [Character] IS
>YES, VOICED BY [Voice Actor]
>NOT FORGETTING THE EPIC EVENTS OF TIDES OF VENGEANCE
>HAHA NO SPOILERS THOUGH
>ESPECIALLY THE STUFF WITH [Character]

Attached: bfa storyline.png (1421x798, 597K)

Unfortunately this is like 90% of storytelling today, if only it were limited to Blizzard