Excuse me everyone can I have your attention please

>*huff huff*
>DESPITE MAKING UP ONLY 13% OF THE GALAXY'S HUMAN POPULATION
>*huff puff*
>CORE LOYALISTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OVER 50% OF D-GUN SHOOTINGS
>*huff huff puff*

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WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT THE SERAPHIM

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gay space chicken

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Don't ever talk to me or my son again

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Not while dostya steps on your dick.

Is there more late game units than this?

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This
Made for UEF dick

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>ends your game

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Daily reminder uef are the bad guys.

When surfaced the aeons tier 1 submarine is the only sub without a surface gun giving it no reason to surface it in the first place.

Not as bad as aeon.
Cybran is the only faction that can be considered "good"

I like Aeon most. Just not with the green paint they seem to default to.

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Isnt this garbage? I feel like the more basic game-enders have better ROI.

AND FUCK NIGGERS

>still no total conversion Halo mod

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but they're all spiky and red and black that means they're evil

this

...

A faction of the aeons are fine, another is bad. Aeons joined the fighting because of the UEF either way so it's still the UEF that's to blame.

>FUCK CYBRANS
Very rude my boy, oh yes

Is RTS dead, lads?

>genocide anyone who doesn't share your religion
>better than UEF
UEF is just trying to conquer everyone, not to kill them

yes, and I will never stop being upset about it

I blame hotkeys and meta strategies

aeons- muzzies
seraphim- niggers
cybrans- libtards
uef- god emperor TRUMP

I blame gookclick

The UEF killed the peaceful seraphims the aeon were learning from. The UEF's ideal ending is them killing everyone else with their doomsday weapon, while aeons just put an end to the fighting while cybrans do the same and free themselves from slavery to the UEF.

I think the aeon also free the cybrans in their ending so yeah it's just the UEF that's truly evil.

I do too user, I do too.

how come all these mechs are terribly designed?

go back 2 pol

Because they're designed to look cool, not to please your autism for realism. Imagine how boring space games would be with realistic weapons and spaceship designs.

God I wish Dostya stepped on my dick

Would you guys be happy if an RTS with the magnitude of Tiberian Sun, minus its flaws, come out in this day and age?

Depends when it gets done. Once it's complete you are literally only limited by the number of workers you have. You can smack up a new one in less than a minute while shitting out experimentals and units at an alarming rate. If both are done at the same time it might edge out depending on how fast you are to build a new one

But they don't look cool, they're all shitty with their aesthetics desu

admit it, they were only cool as fuck because of how differently they made shit go boom

What's even left of Tiberian Sun if you remove the flaws? Aside from late boomber nostalgia.

nah you just have shit taste

>Then it gets hit by literally anything and your entire base is gone

I think supreme commander is the style to go after for a next gen RTS, the obligatory rush tactics that has killed RTS could be fixed with much bigger maps and higher unit counts, and I mean much much bigger maps, like it could take twenty minutes for players to find one of their opponents on a 5 player map, and then work on ways that could still keep the game engaging once players are fighting across the entirety of the map. A gameplay style that could actually make base building a viable tactic and put more emphasis on base building and tech progression, and generally much longer game lengths.

I don't know, I just think RTS in general is heavily untapped in terms of potential and variety, it needs to be big to work.

This, I've tried to replicate it with custom planet sizes in PA but the game just doesn't handle them well, especially with multiple AIs.

The UEF was formed after though. The Empire was the one killing the ayyys. And once again, the Empire was in the right, as usual.

What you have left is a fun idea. The idea of being the commander of a global military force, fighting on the remains of a dying world infested by a viral alien mineral.

Sounds awfully like Deserts of Kharak, minus the minerals. Probably why I enjoyed the hell out of that game. I just wish its multiplayer was fully functional.

I also think there needs to be more appreciation for things ramping up in a single game, like moving up through tech ranks to get more and bigger units that ramp up the speed and intensity of the game. So many games go only so far in this when if the maps were big enough it could go on for ages, having it so a game could start out with you milling around in little landscapes with little armies and progressing onto fighting over continents with super weapons and super units, on scales that just keep on going up and up.
The only thing I've been able to bring close to what I envision for a next gen RTS is actually a turn based game, with Civ 5 on marathon mode. A big appeal that I think RTS is missing is the real gravity and narrative that can go into a game, with a big long game that lets you keep going between highs and lows is so much better than a little one where you've got to be on teh ball right from the get go and can get killed in the first 10 minutes. It gives so much more room for memorable moments and new experiences.

>tfw I suck at RTS games so I resorted to large amounts of turtling to beat the SupCom campaigns

They were in the wrong. Those seraphim were actually peaceful and killing them only brought an entire invasion in retaliation along with the aeons going to war. Let's not kid ourselves, the UEF and the empire are basically the same thing, and they caused everything that went wrong.

1v1 me fag.

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hi there.

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>That feel when a random loyalist ECM returns your ACU tac nuke to sender

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Those fucking hippies taught us "The Way". Which is apparently the main reason why we got a causis beli on us since only one species can have it. Fuck them, and fuck the Aeon.

T2 mobile shields are the thinking man's unit.

campaigns are designed around turtling
>clear the enemy base or something
>"operation area expanded"
>waves of t3 bombers come and tear you a new one
what do they expect me to do

mobile stealth generators are the actual thinking man's unit

Yes but this is a grand strategy format. Company of Heroes proves that it isn't necessary to have a huge map to keep player engagement. I personally find that Company of Heroes with the Blitzkrieg mod is one of the best RTS experiences I've ever had in multiplayer.

The inherent issue with large-scale RTS, and RTS in general, is that it requires micromanagement to get the most fun out of it. Now, before you accuse of me gooklick, know that what I really am referring to is the fact that a player can only be focusing on one area at a time. This is the issue that happens so very often with Wargame, the units there do not have the self-autonomy to act and judge like in an actual battlefield, they require your constant attention to be 100% effective, meanwhile, you're handling a huge amount of units across the entire map.

I don't think RTS' are dead due to any one particular gameplay ordeal, it's just that by comparison to all other games out there, it's only in strategy games that you are actually managing multiple ingame player characters at a single given time, it's inherently stressful.
This is why I believe TBS and small-scale RTS like Battlefleet Gothic are going strong to this day.

It's all in the attention requirement of the player, but then I will argue it is not inherently the problem that the player is lacking in skill (Gotta git gud afterall), but that there are inadequate systems within games to handle large amounts of units at the control of a single entity.

Think about it, wouldn't grand RTS' be more fun if you could instruct your units to go to an area, and they interact with the environment and handle themselves accordingly to win the encounter, instead of standing there in the open taking hits until you finally notice they're in danger and you do something about it yourself?

All of that on top of making sure you have a working economy.

TL;DR Unit AIs are dumb and make RTS' a chore instead of a game about formulating strategies.

Did you never play ladder supcom?

The first 5 mins is scout rushing to pick off extractors/engis/gens, the player that does this best wins the game via resource advantage in most cases.

TA had t1 bomber/peewee rushing abusing the living fuck outta force fire bombing runs and the op EMGs

Maybe build a shield generator or a flak gun you clot.

yea that's called turtling

>plays 1v1 on really small maps
>thinks the entire game is about rushing
Once again proving the problem is the players and not the genre

I think what needs to be done is a way to make micromanaging simple and accessible, like with some kind of drop down menu that works similar to the way you can create army groupings in most RTSs, and to make that the only way of micromanaging. No more hotkey autism, because that creates a huge divide between players and makes it so the only way to beat someone using hotkeys is to be faster and more autistic with them, the way to win the game should be with cunning and planning not whoever can dart around the map the fastest.

We gotta bring the magic back to RTS, the narrative of it, that's what got me into as a kid int he first place.

That's why you build shitton of shields around it and start SACU and Experimental spam (including second paragon)

And I'm saying that that needs to be addressed, there needs to be a much longer build up before the first engagements, one that gives time for people to work on their own specific paths to win the game that has its own specific strategies, units, techs, etc.

We've got to get out of the current trend of everyone competing to do the same thing the fastest

Absolutely based.
Alternative color Aeon units are arguably the best looking in the game.

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Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying too, micromanaging is what has actually killed the RTS. Somewhere along the way, some fuckers realized that it was more fun to micromanage one unit with 4 something abilities, rather than 100. It's why Meepo, Brewmaster, or any multiple Micro heroes in Dota are unpopular and rated as the most difficult characters above Invoker, the hero with 10 abilities.

I do believe the next evolution of the RTS has yet to come, but we've seen a glimpse of it in Company of Heroes, where units try to manage themselves as best they can.

Another simpler form of this is in Generals/Zero Hour, that simple "Guard Area" function made wide range micro actually fun and tolerable.

What else do you like about RTS' in general?

I'm still surprised nobody tried to apply FF12's gambit system to an RTS.

His literal point was that they look bad, how couldn't you infer that from his post?
And he's right to an extent, a lot of the designs are very uninspired.

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Because he's autistic and will just defer to this

What I did was cripple the first enemy base, then build experimentals and nukes for the rest of the mission.

Who /zhon/ here?

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I guess what I'm saying is that micromanaging needs to go macro, as in even as your base and unit count expands, you should still be controlling them all in more or less the same way. Like maybe once you get to a certain tech level, certain units start coming in bunches instead of singles, and certain buildings gain the ability to start automatically functioning, maybe an ability unlocks to create process links between buildings and bases that lets you start to expand more. I think the focus should be on the game getting bigger and bigger, and as it does so certain actions blend into the woodwork as new ones emerge depending on what you're doing, so functions slowly start to become automated essentially, but you then have to decide on the ways that you automate them, and it just keeps going up and up. i don't know if I'm effectively explaining what I mean, but imagine it as a kind of fractal path, things that were once big now blend into bigger things, instead of what RTSs seem to currently do where it's just a bunch of tiny things that need to constantly be pumped as you make more tiny things, until you just overwhelm your opponent.

As to what I like about RTSs, I think it's what I tried to describe above, I like the aspect of little things over here affecting big things over there and vice versa, and the narrative that comes out of that. It's just a shame I've only ever seen it really work against AI.

on large maps its bomber/getto gunship rush

however this is easily dealt with using t1 mobile AA. the problem comes with t2/3 being super fucking swole and t2 AA just cannot deal with it, t3 AA is ludicrously expensive.

the most efficient AA unit was the cruisers which shredded every air unit even czars/soul rippers

Is this the most complicated RTS ever made?

Sword of the Stars
Or that one which you have to design every unit you build from scratch, earth 2051? i think

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How about a behaviour template constructor?
You can create behaviour and production templates both for units and buildings, and you can change them in a few clicks. Sure it's nothing like units being autonomous, but it's much easier to implement

I understand your frustrations, and I share the same exact sentiments. RTS' games need to be macro based, and less micro based.

Basically, delegation of simple tasks need to happen as the scale gets bigger and bigger.

I really do like idea too, it's an utterly genius idea. I believe that if an RTS had Ashes of the Singularity unit blob management system, combined with the ability to set their blob behavior like FF12's gambit system will produce an RTS that has never been seen before.

Thank you for the valuable input. It makes me glad to know that there still exists a niche audience for this sort of genre.

Yes, absolutely, it would be like idea, but with less management and programming of the behaviors.

Would you prefer preset templates, or the ability to create your own?

Earth 2140, 2150, 2160 and Warzone 2100.

All these games required you to design your units EVERY. DAMNED. TIME.

2160 was a huge fucking disappointment

RTS will never die
I think a system of set templates that are each designed in ways that allow them to be very adaptable and malleable, essentially letting people use them in very creative ways would be the best way to go.

The key thing is that it is simplified and accessible, something that is easy to use but has lots of room to be played around with. Not only do I think that that would draw in new and larger crowds but I think it would also be the best kind of style to lay the foundations for a really big and complex game on.

>another RTS thread
>another thread filled with screeching casuals complaining about needing apm above 20
It's all so tiresome.

How do you like that intro song? :^)

t. korean

Some of them must be pre-made, just so you could take them apart and see how they work. But ultimately, creating your own.
It would turn into even bigger autism simulator than wargame deck designer.

if anything we're saying there should be less apm, from a direct command standpoint anyway

This one?
youtube.com/watch?v=M8ymD8Czrwo
Back then I loved it

I like how Grey Goo literally copied unique faction mechanics from 2160 to the letter without ever giving credit where it's due.

Supcom does not require much APM. Everything can be automated. I don't think any other RTS lets you automate in the way supcom does.

>Create a system that regulates unit behavior
>Have units that have niche roles and no active abilities
>Some Korean autist plays your game
>Immediately creates cheese behaviors to support maximum korean level apm
>Immediately creates a meta
>Koreans kill RTS again

What I want is a modern combat strategy game where you lay out the operation and the AI carries it out on it's own, without micro management.
But there's probably no money in that and getting the AI good enough is probably too difficult as well.

That's the one, I absolutely hated it. I found it jarring that a vocal track would be the main theme.

I didn't even fucking notice this desu, but recycled ideas happen all the time...and Grey Goo kinda sucked desu

And it's still too complicated.
Niggers complaining about actually having to play the game would be better fit in a console-thread discussing the latest movie-game.

Dungeon Keeper gives you the option to let the AI run the game with several pre-set behaviors.

Its pointless but it does it play itself if you just want to jerk off to the mistress

The problem with what you are describing is that it typically ends up taking away control and thereby makes things more bland and boring instead of adding focus on strategy like you want.

Similarly with the focus on bigger maps. If it takes 15 minutes to start interacting with your opponent, what's really going to happen is not that you somehow make the game about "cunning and planning". Instead it will lead to even more autistic build orders that last 15 minutes because there will be basically less variables that influence your decisions at any point, which is ultimately likely to lead to a lot of rock-paper-scissors type strategy.

In my opinion, the idea of getting rid of execution entirely in RTS is flawed.
The fact that the game is happening in real time will mean that players who can make correct decisions faster and more effectively will always have an advantage just by being able to do more.
I think a better way around this should be to make the user interface as powerful and comfortable as possible, the way supcom did, so that you can focus on the interesting decisions and aren't bogged down with busywork. This is also why I think adding the artificial macro mechanics to sc2 was a mistake.

The other road would be to go back to exploring the angle of the more "flashy" and tactical RTS (or RTT) such as Ground Control, World in Conflict, CoH, Homeworld (1) and similar, where you can achieve much with proper tactics, use of terrain and things like that. I feel like that type of game could be very viable, especially with modern technology to make everything look and feel cooler.

>13% of the human population
Nigger do you even LORE?

How the hell did they manage to get a soundtrack this good? And with the active transition music system (with the ability to switch tracks around if you were a fag and didn't want the OST)

TA truly is to good for this world.

again, this is what needs to be kept in mind when making the game

there needs to be a counter for everything, or at least a way that someone can be just about completely wiped out and then make a comeback, because as I said the fun of these things really rides on the highs and lows as the game plays out, I'm not exactly sure yet of how this can specifically be addressed but I'm sure there's a way

what needs to be avoided at all costs is the ability for one player to completely dominate using a meta strategy, there needs to be a constant struggle going on that isn't just how many units you can throw at each other, there needs to be multiple fronts for people to fight on

>Git Gud enough to learn how to rush one of these out
>Casual friends barely hitting T3 teck before this bad boy rolls over the fog of war

The laser just sweeping through everything is just so god damn satisfying.

I cant think of many games that let you play your own music by simply clicking it in the options.

But i guess it no longer matters since PCs can multitask now without shitting the bed

I also said though that when one control is taken away, two more take its place, the issue is just finding a way to do that where it doesn't fall back into the same issue we already have with RTS strategies, as in things need to stay diverse

and with , there needs to be multiple fronts that players need to take into account, and not necessarily physical fighting fronts. To go back to my Civ 5 example, in that game there are things that may go out of the players hands that they then need to deal with as the game progresses, all depending on what paths they have taken in the game, I think some kind of system like that needs to be implemented. We're talking about a next gen RTS here, so the possibilities of little things that can be added and make matters more interesting is limitless, the only issue is making it all fit together in the end.

what was YFW it got punk'd by a handful of t1 bombers and t2 missile launchers?

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not really an RTS but try out Door Kickers, there's nothing more satisfying than watching a complicated plan play out perfectly from how you first laid it out in the game

But that's micromanaging everything before the operation starts.
It has the watching it play out part, which is nice but I want it on a bigger scale with units being more independent.

>t2 Missiles
Casuals friends user. T2 Tactical Missiles are probably the most overlooked option for new to even mid play I'd say
>t1 bombers
only after I did that strat the first couple times. The ML anti air is decent enough for a couple of stragglers and by the time its over the fog of war its to late to start emmassing them.

then maybe Total War campaigns, where you just focus on the overworld and let the armies auto resolve

That has the big scale part but not the rest.
Total war is pretty cool, though.

Then go play a simulator ya cretin. Distant worlds, Sword of the Stars, Frozen Synapse, Simcity2k

>cybran navy destroyers
>right click on dry land
>mfw

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I feel like adding "multiple fronts" like that is going to be really really difficult to implement in an RTS without having the opposite effect of what you want.
For example, assume the layers have some form of interaction (i.e. having the advantage on layer somehow gives you more resources, freedom to act or whatever). A faster, more efficient player is more likely to just destroy you on multiple fronts, which is probably going to end up giving him a further advantage on the remaining ones.
On the other hand if the layers have little interaction, it might easily lead to a game where you play some number of different games in parallel, which admittedly could be a fun concept, but I think it is more than likely going to lead to boring kinds of "races" to different win conditions that don't really influence each other much along the way.

In a game like civ V it might work differently exactly because the game is turn based so the additional resource of player attention doesn't play into it as much.

>deploying 150 jets from a czar just like Independence day
>then crashing it into the enemy commander

If this isnt the tightest shit then get outta my face.

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First time It happened to me my mind was blown
>Tell navy to go to beach
>attend to other shit
>check back on ship
>Ships ar'nt their
>The fuck?
>Look around the map an notice a cluster of unit inland that I don't remember putting there
>Realize they where the missing navy fleet
>mfw

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too bad they were shit

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Surely you jest? The walking destroyer lays waste to most land units with its superior range, auto tracking turrets, high accuracy and xbox huge hit points. All you need is radar coverage so it can fire into fog.

Also, I've watched some supcom casts recently out of boredom/nostalgia and I think maybe this game kind of showcases a game with multiple fronts between high level players:
youtube.com/watch?v=H4d5XU6Rz9U

There's multiple levels of conflict in the control of more land vs control of water and air each with their own contributions and (soft) win conditions. Also notice how this type of game becomes really execution heavy because you have to manage and counter play so much shit at the same time.

I want a world in conflict style game With sup-com scale set in the tiberium universe.

I'll leave now.

They are too expensive, slow and slow to build. Land artillery and missile systems turn them to ash for much less expense. You can literally build defense against them why they walk

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maybe make it a baseline free for all but add incentives to make alliences, maybe add a third element, like some kind of ai 'barbarian' faction that populates the map, and then give players the option to ally, then add some kind of a system to give them bonuses for doing so, but with the fact in mind that at some point they will definitely go to war so the game can end with a winner at some point, with the games going on long enough to allow for periods where players actually want to work together with each other, maybe with even more goals and incentives besides an ai enemy

then there only needs to be a system that prevents other players from easily being ganged up on, I dunno, I just want there to be endless possibilities for how the game can play out, I want no one to be able to see what's coming next

The best supreme commander maps are the tiny 4 players ones like Blasted Rock, or the 3 player ones like sentinel's hill, on Free for all. The best Company of heroes maps are small 2vs2 maps like lorraine or wolfheze.
However the entire community of these games just likes to play boring as fuck maps where you take forever to build up before engaging, Maps like seton's clutch in supcom and vire river valley in CoH. It's gay as fuck, the RTS genre got killed by bad players who want to be playing a city building game and should play CIV or tropico instead of an rts.

If forged alliance didnt have memory leaks and used multicore cpus the 81x81 continental map would be perfection
>get to use mobile factories
>missile sub hide and seek
>teleports suddenly worth buying
Shame it runs like garbage

t. can't strategize

Feels good my boy, oh yes

Yeah but you can't use a pirated game anymore

You forgot
>take 10 minutes to reach enemy base
>by that time he has built stuff that counters your attack 20 times over
>have to hunt down minute shit all around the map
>implying teleports and nuke subs aren't used already

81x81 are a complete and utter impractical meme that only sounds good on paper to someone who has barely played the game. 40x40 already sucks.

nigga you gay

RTS games need early player interaction to be fun. On seton's clutch only 2 players spam t1 at each other and the other three players don't do anything until t3 at which point it becomes rock paper scissors or if one of your players doesn't know the perfect macro you just automatically lose.

Vire river valley in CoH is even worse. Literally nothing can happen until either the axis gets vet 3 tanks at the kampfkraft center and spams vet 3 panthers across the center, or the allies build up so much artillery that they can constantly shell the entire map. There is literally only one strategy to win for each faction and everyone spends 4/5 of the game doing nothing except playing cat and mouse with stutkas and allied arty. It's dumb but everyone loves it.

The scheldt is ok.

Was SOTS2 ever gotten into a playable state?

No.

And it never will be because of the fleets/empire management system they refuse to re-code.

Damn shame, the shipyard design room is amazing

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The perfect map size is fields of ISIS.

Shame

this is another thing, while I was saying earlier that there should be a span before players could interact each other, I still want that early tight nit thing that those supcom maps have going for them, and I think the key to that would be very slow tech progression that amps up as the game goes on, another thing I'm taking in mind from civ 5

hell someone should just make an rts of civ 5, it on marathon pretty much perfectly captivates the feel I want out of an rts

>muh APM meme in a supcom thread
imagine outing yourself as a fucking retard this quickly

Ever played Empire Earth?

yeah but not since I was a kid, so I hardly remember the specifics, I remember loving it though, that was back when I could rent pc games from the video store

I just wish I could find a copy of it or at least a torrent that worked

>apm'lets are retards
what a shock!

Terrible is kinda stretching it my man
They're good enough i'd argue, if there's a reason it's probably SupComm 1 didnt actually have any artists and everything looks meh as fuck that they're supposed to not look so cool that players would want to use them too much That could be true considering SupComm 2 got an art direction but the ACUs still looked kinda meh.
Jesus how can a game shit on so much of it's legacy and still have so many better ideas

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>mark making his famous wall burger

I loved that game. 2 was pretty good, too. No idea what 3 was though.

I like them in white.

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calm your autism faggot, it's just a joke.

You can get it on GOG for 6 bucks or if you know a way I can give you a copy of mine fellow user.

>supcom2

You just had to mention it didnt you...

>commander we have to save earth AND YOUR WIFE
>ello UE EFF:DD ima snipbbity snabb cybran dinosaur :PP
>lol lets put shields on aircraft and nerf all AA units
>oh and bug shields so they block 100% incoming damage with 1 hp
>no you cannot build that till you have positive resources, we don't care that the old game let you keep building with a efficiency penalty
>check out these AWESOME new experimental super units!
>oh btw any basic unit will demolish them as upgrades dont apply to experimentals

At least the game runs smoothly i guess.

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Literally have the entire game stored on my phone to be installed to whatever computer I use.