Are Visual Novels Games?

It's time we had a serious discussion on this. Every thread ever about visual novels always gets this complaint, that they arn't games. Some people say that they are games because they have a lose state, while others say they arn't because it's just clicking to advance the story, personally I think it's a mixture of both. If it has a win state then yes it is a video game even if it's in the loosest sense and deserves to be discussed on this board, if it's click to advance a story then no it isn't to which I ask, where do we discuss the ones that have no lose state? Discuss.

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If VN's are games, so are choose-your-own-adventure novels.

Why does it matter?

They are

While people were experiencing awkward teenage sex and romance i was up until 3am playing YMK.

wouldnt have it any other way desu

So I can shitpost with a good conscience.

No.

You can never shitpost with a good conscience.

/thread

As long as they actually require a choice, yes. They're not really complex games, but they satisfy my requirement that there needs to be either an explicit or implicit fail state and a set of rules to it. The rules being "You click one of your set choices and then keep reading," and the failure state being "not seeing what you want to see."

Because having a discussion about something is inherently more interesting than seeing the same bait posted with a different image for the 100th time.
First of all, what makes a Video Game a Video Game?

Is it bad that I played DDLC and then played mods for it to get a happier ending?

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More of a game than walking simulators.

Choose-your-own-adventure books are games, visual novels are video games (except for the ones with no choices).
They obviously are. Plenty of video games these days are commonly made with no win/loss states, with large portions of time with no direct player input, and without being able to directly control the movement of characters or anything like that. The only remaining feature to define the concept with is interactivity, and it clearly doesn't even need to be a lot of interactivity or particularly impactful interactivity, so visual novels that offer any player choices at all neatly fit into the category.
The only people who argue against it are the ones who think being a video game is some special marker of quality or something, and since they don't like visual novels they can't stand the idea of them having the same label. That's obviously idiotic, though. They are video games, but it doesn't make any difference to their quality or whether they should be played or whatever else. It doesn't matter much at all, except in pointless arguments over semantics.

I don't know and don't really care. Not every form of digital entertainment has to be a game.

No, but honestly it sounds like you should just play actual visual novels if that's something you enjoy.
Going through the effort to change a mini parody/creepy pasta game into a normal visual novel seems a bit pointless.

Thanks for reminding me to replay YMK

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They ever come out with a route for her

The company died 12 years ago. Take a guess.

Ooohhh boy, where do we even start on this? I guess if it has a lose/win state, is on a medium that displays an image through an lcd, oled, etc screen, and allows you to interact with it through button presses?

Then why is this called Yea Forums and not /digital entertainment/