Flightstick thread

well can you link me to a right side joystick one? I've been looking for a good quality one but can't find anything other than cheap Chinese bullshit or forum elitists telling people to build one themselves

>assembling a fight stick is hard
lmao just pay some chink to 3d print a box and transplant the parts over

Just turn it around

Wireless controllers are typically shunned because of latency

OP stop being a whiny bitch. Literally everyone uses the same layout- lefties included. Learn and git gud or make your own.

He was saying that >be me is reddit shit, which it fucking is you newfag scum

You can buy a lefty panel for HRAP V.

Join q6j8EFM it's a server about fight sticks but generally korean levers

>refusing to adapt to the standard
This is why you'll never get anywhere leftie

Why isn't there a universal Arcade Stick or at least a fucking adapter?
I have so many arcade/fighting games across many different platforms, from PC to PS1, and I don't want to fucking buy a different arcade stick for each one of them.

>Literally everyone uses the same layout- lefties included.
maybe because that layout was MADE for lefties? you can make a lefty write right handed, but why would you?

newfag detected, maybe look at some threads from 2007-8 and then come back and let me know how greentext stories are usually started

wrong
google brooks ufb

There are dumbass, Brooks makes converters. You can even get a different board and you'll be fine as long as you update the firmware.

God, I wish I was a lefty so I could use the standard lefty layout everyone uses, but sadly I'm right handed and thus, require the stick on the right side for optimal performance

I'll be damned, thanks and sorry for the spoonfeeding.

Unfortunately if you are looking for one with the stick on the right side, they are very uncommon and you may have to mod or build your own. If you do find one, you can use a converter like this: arcadeshock.com/collections/brook/products/brook-converter-various-configurations

Otherwise, if you're not sure if you're up to building your own, you may be able to find someone online who does those kind of custom jobs.

Does anyone else have the Mayflash F300 Elite? I felt like I'm the only regard who has bought it so far

are there even wireless fightsticks?

If you're so used to keyboard why don't you just get a hitbox?

He is not wrong. Left handed people are literally the only ones complaining about not being able to do shit with their non main hand while normal people have no trouble at all adjusting to controls focused on either hand.

Fuck left handed people.

>2007-8
>newfag
Yes, exactly.

I know this probably sounded smart in your head, but we've spent the past 40 years using the joystick on the left side and anyone who's used any kind of controller for more than five minutes has gotten used to it.
It doesn't matter where the joystick is you'd still be a shitter anyways.

Imagine being left handed. Imagine needing to write with your left hand like a retard

I know from experience that you can't do that. The plate is machined in such a way that you can't just flip it. Your only real option is to build your own, or play with your hands crossed like Seth Killian.

8bitdo made one.

I'd rather get a "lefty" mixbox desu hitbox is retarded, who uses space for "up"? imagine doing QC up or even a fullcircle. and I want a stick so it's easier to do full circles. I can do them with the arrow keys but I feel it'd be easier with a stick

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OP here, agree with this, fuck lefties and fuck left handed fight sticks that have the stick on the left hand

because you don't know how to read 3+ letter words.

Fuck people that need specialized controls and can't adjust to everything. Fuck you.

>getting a fightstick
>in a post-hitbox and mixbox world
no memeing, but unless you live in one of the few nations that still have an arcade cultures left, buying a fightstick just seems dumb.

>fuck right handed people who can't adjust to writing left handed
this is how you sound right now

Clearly underage, mods should ban.

why are you faggots arguing about writing left handed. fuck off and take your autism pills

Writing wasn't designed with left hand in mind, retard. Have you ever seen a lefty write something? It looks completely retarded.

>thinks >be me is reddit trash
>thinks 07-08 posters are newfags in this day and age
son, its 2019. You've been in a coma for 10 years. Newfags are anyone who posted since moot left Yea Forums. Also moot left Yea Forums.

Arabic writing wasn't designed to be written with your right hand, retard. Have you ever seen a righty write something in Arabic? It looks completely retarded.

>arabic
And a nice beheading and ramadan to you too, ahmed.

YOU DARE DISRESPECT MY HKHKHKHKHKHKHKHKHKUSIN AHKHKHMED? ONE PHONE CALL, 15 LEBS, ALL AT YOUR DOOR.

Brooks are scammers, a generic pcb from ebay will cost you 10 bucks and work fine.

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>officially licensed by Nintendo
He's in.

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>smash faggotry completely out of nowhere
God I'm so fucking tired of smash fans.

What the fuck are you talking about? Basically every single form of control in a video game maps movement to the left hand. Controllers, mouse and keyboard, you name it. You’re just weird for not using WASD to play fighting games on keyboard.

We posting sticks?

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>be me

IS reddit trash.
greentexting implies it's you. fuck this thread.

>mfw my friends seethe after spending 200$ to lose to me on any dualshock 4

sticks are for faggots.

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Also this

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No problem on PC but on console the stick would become a problem since many games don't offer real directional customization.

Just bought one of these as my first stick. Did I fuck up?

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Nope, just put a tighter spring in and some sanwa buttons and you're good to go. Mine is the Spaced one I posted, it's an awesome stick, use it more than the hori.

I play with stick and would fuck you up in any fighting game, the stick or any other choice for controls doesn't matter at all.

Sanwa or Seimitsu?

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Just turn it upside down and rebind :^)

Yeah, I'm sure buddy.

That was my entire point. You wouldn't be able to touch me, trust me.

If you play on PC I own basically every fighting game that came out in the last 5 years.

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>remove sticker covering faceplate to get to the screws
>remove face plate, detach buttons and stick knob so you can get them out
>rotate stick 180 degrees(unfortunately only the side stick is already on will likrly have room for it inside)
>Flip plate both horizontally and vertically
>reattach buttons.

There you go, your stick is now mirrored.

Okay? You want to run a lobby or something?

niggas are just discussing sticks. I have T7, UMVC3, Skullgirls, SFV, USF4, let me know what's up.

Sorry to hear about your stick going on the fritz right before your top 8, man. All the other competitors are doing other tourney matches right now, but you can borrow my stick as a last minute backup.

(Y/N?)

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Depends
>3D fighters; Korean lever, Seimitsu buttons
>2D fighters; Sanwa lever & buttons

I use an Etokki Omni with Sanwa lever and buttons for SFV and UNIST

Its a good stick and better with custom parts

Open up a SFV lobby and I will be there.

Did yall open a lobby? Either of yall play Unist? I'll play sfv or Unist.

>Wanting to swap stick and buttons to opposite sides
>Not playing cross handed

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PC or PS4?

I opened a SFV lobby but don't know how to share. It's a lobby made by a gold german vega player password is 7212

Ah, I see I can send invites. If you give me your fighter ID I can directly invite you to the lobby.

>Vega
Absolutely based user

>flightstick
That aside, you can play the unholy way.

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Why use a Fighting Stick? I've taken Tekken tournaments with a regular ass controller.
Get fucking good

>he didn't grow up going to an arcade
>he was antisocial and played inside all day

It's just a personal choice faggot. Some people just prefer how fighting sticks feel. I don't like sliding my thumb on rubber, that's why I prefer a fightstick.

No one is joining or asking to be invited so there is that.

What's the matter, bro?
Why didn't you buy one yet?
You're not poor, are you?

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Ugly as sin.

It is just preference, man.
I prefer my whole hand to have access to the buttons rather than my thumb being responsible for half of them at once, and I am pretty aggressive on d pad which makes my thumb sore. I feel a lot of 3d games are more intuitively designed for stick, 3 button games like virtua and DoA become a lot simpler to execute. Soul Calibur has those slide button inputs that make way more sense on stick.

I still rock pad for guilty gear, though.

I looked this up and I can’t find anything of substance about it. The only thing making this claim is a video by Larry Bundy Jr. which seems to be pure conjecture with no sources or citations.

I prefer semitsu and hori buttons over sanwa. sanws feel like they lack resistance imo.

Only 2 things matter when buying a stick:
1. What buttons/lever does it come with?
2. How easily can I adorn it with pictures of my waifu?

Everything else you just fucking deal with.

>playing fighting games on Switch at all with input delay and framepacing issues
WHY

Can I get a fightpad instead of a 200+ fightstick?

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Make your own controller with some basic carpentry and electronics skills

Hori Fighting Commander is pretty good if you prefer pads.

sorry but i already have qanba obsidian

i have two of these, they are really good for casual play. Im still better on them instead of but im slowly learning mishimas with the stick, wavedashing and EWGF are fun

I like my Hori RAP N a lot but i really want to change the art because i'm tired of of the regular one already

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focusattack.com/blank-plexi-artwork-cover-for-hori-rap-n/
focusattack.com/artwork-print-and-cut-for-hori-rap-n/

Yeah i know what to get it's just hard to choose some cool looking art

Get a custom artist and you can make the art whatever you want.

>be me
Who else would you be? Someone who isn't retarded?

I know most people here are too new to remember that this wasn't a thing pre-reddit invasion in like 2011 or so, but for fuck's sake, kill yourself.

newfags are anyone who posted after snacks left Yea Forums. Also Who's moot

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Get a USB adapter like the 8bitdo or mayflash ones.

Then you can use nearly whatever controller/stick you like.

>using anything but Brook
why

Mayflash works for me. Is there a proven test that shows Brooks to be superior to all other ones?

Seems to me like Brooks is the hipster choice.

On top of that, Mayflash NS Magic reviewed much better despite having more people reviewing it than Brooks Switch Converter on Amazon.

Seems like an untrustworthy product.

Mayflash has more than 1f lag. Brook has at worst 1f

Like I said earlier, got proof? Also according to reviews, it seems Brooks is more likely to break after firmware updates.

Looked it up. Wasn't aware you were talking about the NS Magic specifically. Yeah apparently people like that one. That said, Brooks is usually alright.

So green text stories are Reddit? We have come full circle, point and laugh everyone

you have to go back

>No friends to play fighting games with
>Only friend interested in fighting games is fine with buttonmashing

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remember when these were a thing? I had a collection of a bunch of the guro ones.

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That stick's pretty good to be fair.

Same bro
I forgotten how many times I've tried to explain the basics of fighters to my bud. Shit like high/low/mid, startup/recovery, motions, game specific mechanics, etc. but my friend will literally punch and smash my controllers to mash the buttons randomly and he doesn't get why I'm so disappointed in him.
And how salty I get when he actually beat me
>dude its just a game lol thats my playstyle lets go play Destiny

wish I had the drive to actually play fighting games

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>newish to fighting games
>play with pad
>couldn't do full circles
>bought fighting stick
>can do full circles but I can't do double quarters now

>No friends play fighting games
>Only one that did won't play with me anymore because he doesn't want to put in the time to go beyond buttonmashing stage

lmao Just turn it around bro

I really wanted to do something similar but with later ukiyo-e from the Russo-Japanese war but all the cool prints I've found are shit quality

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>It's a "be me" thread

Check this 7

Woah woah woah. Look that Hori isn't a bad stick but there are better. By far especially if you want customization in terms of graphics and tech.

The patrician choice is Jasens Customs. They even have a cheaper aluminum version too which is still great, but I went steel Panzer 3i. There is even a hitbox version if you want stickless design.

The brains of the stick is the Ultimate Fighting Board pcb which is compatible with everything modern including Switch , PC etc. Panzer kits come with everything to build except PCB ( you should get a pre soldered one ordering from Jasen, Ultimate model as I mentioned), buttons and lever. Note I suggest you get a ProCable as part of your order from JC.

After this go to...
FocusAttack
ArcadeShock

I
Which sell buttons and lever in all the model and colors you could want. Note JasensCustoms sells super special Samduksa mech silver MX switch buttons which are said to be the best alongside GamerFinger, but they have more colors. Of course you can always just get Sanwa or seimitsu buttons too

Just build your own fagboy lmao.

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is the razer fightstick shit?

No it's good. It's actually one of the most used in professional play at the moment.

It's not the worst but for the cash I wouldn't go with it. Not easy to mod, graphics wise . Also the connector is non standard electrical etc and some models have issues

you'll always be a newfag, don't try to revise history

how does is that supposed to onto your switch? doesn't it defeat the purpose of the console being portable?

The era of newfag doesnt change with time, retard. And >be me shit is gay as all hell.

No, it's pretty alright for entry level.
Sticks and buttons could be a lot better, but they're easily modded.
It's pretty great how it can switch between systems too, worth it for that alone.

Here's your stick bro.

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Fuck off bud, most of us lefties are ambidex so fightsticks or any of such are no problem for us. It's the retards who have problems with shit like scissors and other right handed things. I bet you believe all lefties use the mouse with their right hand too.

The old Panthera was good but it broke for quite a few people. Either the latch or the USB connector. The new one kinda sucks

That usb dongle has a usb port for connecting wired controllers too

buying a fighting edge today
i play sf4, sfv and i will be getting the new samsho
:)

I own this shit but the buttons seem kinda flimsy and I hate having the other buttons hidden in the side. How easy is this thing to mod or should I just get a new stick?

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I got this bad boy

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Based

Fairly easy to mod. I put Sanwas in mine. Button holes are a but tight but that's about it. Mine is this one

Yeah, button mods aren't too horrible. The main thing about RAP4/V/Switch and other Hori sticks is the lack of custom art atop it (there's no plexi etc.. so all you can do without a modded top piece is apply a skin to the deck. Some of these look good like on ArcadeShock but its not the same as having either artwork under plexi or printed plexi). However, more in depth mods are likely out given the limited amount of space.

If you just want to replace the buttons or maybe the lever, you'll be okay. Any more than that get another stick in which it is easier to work and more full featured.

I just discovered that mayflash f300 updated the firmware and now support Switch and Neogeo mini

>who uses space for "up"?
People with a brain, theres a reason the up key on a hitbox can be pressed by both thumbs. Mixbox is a fucking meme

>Brooks are scammers, a generic pcb from ebay will cost you 10 bucks and work fine.
Which one? Can you link it?

I wanted to do that with Takiyasha the Witch and the Skeleton Spectre but I can't find a good enough quality image

There aren't any because even left-handed people use the standard format. So you'll need to buy cheap chinese junk, modify an existing one, or build one yourself.

>fightstick for Smash
??????????????????????????????

What size do the buttons need to be for Rap4? Sorry, never modded a fighting stick before so I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing and looking out for.

Don't bother. Most shitting chinese aliexpress or ebay PCBs aren';t as good in actual use as Brook boards. There's a reason they're the preferred in the fighting game community and the hardware community.

Discount PCBs can't likely work on as many systems nor have as many features (ie input cleaning in multiple ways), updatable etc. Not to mention inferior quality when it comes to connections/tracing.

Google nigga
30mm for all but the start which is 24mm, get snap in ones as you can't fit all screw in sanwa ones

Yeah, what said.

And go to ArcadeShock and FocusAttack to buy your buttons/ stick hardware. THey're the best vendors on the west and east coast respectively. There are others but they have good stuff.

Oh, if you want the ultimate patrician buttons there is GamerFinger (which you can buy from FocusAttack) or ideally the CherryMX Silver Samduksa/Crown buttons from JasensCustom (note not regular Crown/Samduksa buttons, just those specific ones with mech cherry mx silver switches).

>Keyboard switch arcade buttons
What a meme

>And go to ArcadeShock and FocusAttack to buy your buttons/ stick hardware. THey're the best vendors on the west and east coast respectively.
Yeah that's great except when you're an EU friend.

The best part is showing off your art

The worst part is finding an artist to commission if you want something specific

Check out SRK - those switches are more sensitive, long lasting, and feel better than most default scissor type switches in many arcade buttons. This isn't that standard sanwa/seimitsu/hori are bad, but many prefer those with the mech switches instead.

I'm not familiar but there are likely good suppliers in the EU too.

arcadeworlduk

Every Hori I've had eventually ended up having stick problems, and not even that long after buying them.

How good are the Venom fightsticks or should I pick a different brand? I want to try getting a stick soon.

Venom? I'm pretty sure those are outmoded. Haven't heard that name for a long time if I'm thinling of the same thing.

Are you talking about making a stick from a kit? Also how much do you want to spend?

>there are cucks paying to shop some fightstick art
lmaoing at your lives m8s
How stupid can you actually be?
Pirate photoshop then pick your favourite anime hoe and that's it done in 15minutes max

Venom are still around. They have an EU stick and an American one.
Venom's fine as a starter stick but there's no touchpad. Good build quality and easy to mod tho

i have a keyboard with a steel backplate so i can use it on my lap. just sitting and holding it in a different way may help you. get a stick if you want but i don't think it will actually make you better. i also suggest using 4 finger movement instead of 3 finger. instead of arrow keys, why not use your numpad? like 4560?

flip it upside down and rebind the buttons and stick lol?

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This is the one I'm currently looking at atm. Was looking for a already built stick for my first time while if I were to get a second stick I might end up doing one from a kit or making my own.

I wouldn't mind spending from $50-$150.
That's good though I should try looking for some more with a touchpad then.

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as such

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Remapping buttons is no problem but you usually can't remap the stick inputs. So down would be up and so on.

This is mine

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>Whorie

I have one of these OP and they work really well. Very versatile, too. You can hook up wired controllers to the USB port on the back or sync pretty much any wireless controller including DS4 and XBO controllers. It was like $30 on Amazon

Are people really born left handed or is it a learned thing like homosexuality?

>I HAVE to get a fightstick to play fighting games

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I want a Brooks converter in my next stick but jansens customs is like $500 without shipping

whats a good solid stick out now? my current ones are jank. I have an unmodded MvC2 TE and a unmodded Fightstick Pro.

I was going to get MK11 but my interest waned after visiting Yea Forums threads about it.

Mine.

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Cool stick

Just mod the ones you currently own with a Brooks board. Any brainlet can do it.

Mine

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gib vlx

The TE still has a nice body, a Brooks UFB will make it compatible with every modern system or the Brooks PlayStation one if you only play on PS4 and I think it might work on PC? You might have to learn how to solder the USB or replace a button with a link.

You mean something like this?

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any big anons in here?
I have manly hands and therefore my hand feels uncomfortable on the fight stick. ive tried all kinds of holding techniques and wanted to know if there are sticks to support bigger hands?

What's the easiest way to get a fightstick case? Not talking pizza box but something that looks nice.
Europe btw and I can't find an actual stick to buy in my country so I'd have to pay loads for shipping.

probably some type of cigar box or briefcase, look at some pawn stores in Europe and find a good size one for cheap.

Today I'll remind them.

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>etokki
>3 negatives still in S Tier
>Not the Dragon
Fuck outta here.

I really really like this pic.

test with a controller, I'm pretty positive you can in mk at least especially if there is keyboard support yanno

>Dragon
>S tier
>plastic shit
>ugly as sin
>$300
>doesn't even have a detachable cable
come on now.

>get run over by a car as a kid
>left side was fucked, dont have the same reaction in my left hand as the right one
>cant do motions for much time with my left hand and still fuck inputs
>cross hands in training mode, do them with my right hand and start doing inputs flawlessly
Fucking sucks. I wanted a controller with face buttons on the left and dpad on the right, but even those expensive custom controllers dont allow that. Arcade stick is an option since there is always someone that will build them, but I would need some time to get used to motion on sticks.

I couldnt play them much because everytime I did the security or the owner would reach me "YOUR A MINOR KID, GO AWAY". When I got older the arcades were already dead

>Unofficial PCB as a negative
Why? The UFB shits on many licensed PCBs especially the VLX.

>tfw I'm still using my SFIV TE
The thing is a fucking tank

I would say so considering you bought used and is about to crumble apart.

I ordered this one and some custom sticks from that fighting game website.

I plan on using it for shumps and 2d classic retro games (no fighting)

Fucking modern dpads are so damn shit these days just got tired of it

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There are lots of small case builders with many layouts. For instance, AllFightSticks is one "major" metal case builder. The SRK forums Tech section have a lot of others (ie I think there's something called rage pad which is an acrylic stick case).

I don't know about resellers in europe but there may be a few

This. Dragon is very expensive for what you get.

>using a DS4 white
>suddenly dpad seems to be stucked
>play more and when pressing left it reads "down"

Jesus christ these fucking DS controllers.

where do i get something like this
asking for a friend

Overall this decent but it is outdated. For instance besides RAP and RAPN hori sticks, there's a new Fighting Edge which is the highest end Hori.

Also, Panzer still is the supreme choice however they have been upgraded. There are now 3 versions - Panzer 3i is the top of the line stick model with noir layout, can mount both korean and JP style sticks, and a fuckload of awesome features. Panzer 3 Hitbox is all the above but in hitbox layout , making it the superior Hitbox layout stickless controller.

If you want to save some cash, there are now Panzer ALU versions which are similar but cheaper to the steel versions. The layout of the stick model is Vewlix, not Noir though. Not sure of any other changes between the two. But the kit is significantly cheaper, though it doesn't have as many items included (ie you'll need to add the rocker switches in the checkout if you want them. There may sbe some other changes between steel and ALU versions.

Remember that Panzer kits will require a Brook PCB of some sort and I HIGHLY suggest buying one at time of purchase. Even the UFB is around $90 which is about what you'll spend on it elsewhere, but it comes pre-soldered and ready for plug-and-play specifically with the Panzer's layout. Buying from elsewhere may not be soldered right. Yes Panzers can be expensive but they are quite awesome.

>>plastic shit
It's metal, the only plastic is what covers the cables on the inside.

Buttons doesn't feel hollow compared to other sticks when pressed.

It's a fucking tank.

The design is taken from Japanese arcades.

It's $275 which can be found for $200-$180 on Holidays. You don't know what you're talking about.

>>where do i get something like this

Depending on your...friend's... particular fight stick, it will be easy. First, the buttons/joystick ball topper etc.. are available at fighting game/arcade stores (ArcadeShock,Paradise,FocusAttack etc). That is very likely a custom plexi deck (for the 3 button setup) for that particular stick TE2+ - its like a replaced top layer that likely has a nice plexi deck for artwork. The stores, and JasensCustoms all sell them. The artwork itself is easy - go to FocusAttack, TekInnovations, or anywhere else that either makes custom fight stick art prints, and send it to them - they'll send it to you to pro printed to cut out and apply to your stick beneath the plexi. Or, if you're really willing to put in the cash and have a fancy stick, there are some literal "printed plexi" kits where the item isn't cardstock or graphic beneath but actually printed INTO the plexi itself which has a cool effect but costs a LOT more - the difference between $10 for a focus attack cut-and-print with your artwork and $70 for custom plexi

what stick do you guys reccomend for smups and platformers?

Also is there a smash stick?

Here's a smash stick.

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>Buttons doesn't feel hollow compared to other sticks when pressed
It has sanwa buttons like every other non hori stick in the $150+ range
>It's a fucking tank.
It still has plastic, which is more likely to break then the metal. Sure it'll take more abuse then other sticks, but most sticks will last if you don't have an autism fit.
>The design is taken from Japanese arcades.
Literally only the button layout is, which is still seen on other sticks. Just because it's based on Japanese arcades doesn't mean it can't be ugly as shit.
>It's $275 which can be found for $200-$180 on Holidays. You don't know what you're talking about.
For $275 or $200 you can still get an Omni which is actually full metal or something from AFS which is also full metal. Only upside the Dragon has is that you can easily change parts. Which isn't even that hard to do on other sticks.

>It has sanwa buttons like every other non hori stick in the $150+ range
Yes the press doesn't feel that way due to how heavy it is and parts. Can you not understand that?

>It still has plastic, which is more likely to break then the metal. Sure it'll take more abuse then other sticks, but most sticks will last if you don't have an autism fit.
Yeah, plastic breaks, it's the nature of the material, just like how every other stick in the world is made with either plastic or wood. At least this one has metal, and like I said, the plastic is on the inside which covers the cable. Going by that last sentence you already conceded that is of superior quality (which it is) and it is bound to last LONGER than plastic considering both person use it the same way.

> Only upside the Dragon has is that you can easily change parts. Which isn't even that hard to do on other sticks.
Yet it's still a pro for the people that don't want the hassle. Also, some people like to play with their stick at height which requires a tale or chair, the Dragon is 12lbs which is a tank and doesn't move if you're an autist and go hard on hardware.

building your own is actually not as hard as it seems
since it seems you already have the stick it wouldn't cost much to either mod your current stick or buy an empty fightstick and mod that

what artwork should I put into my Qanba Dragon?
pic related is waifu but you can recommend anything, really

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ebay.co.uk/itm/Zero-Delay-Arcade-USB-PCB-Encoder-PC-to-Joystick-DIY-MAME-Fightstick-US-Seller/392193313877?hash=item5b508b0c55:g:uucAAOSwRYNcEzl1

Seriously, it's a board whose sole job is to accept button inputs, it's as low tech as it gets. There's no such thing as a "more advanced model" when you're dealing with such a rudimentary function, this is first year electrical apprentice stuff.

Can I put Kailh Box switches in Gamerfinger buttons? I've been trying to make my mind up between those and Seimitsus and I think this will be the deciding factor.

that fucker is a madman how does he do it

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You can just open it and switch up-down wires.

>got friends into fighting games one summer
>play for years, all improve at the same pace
>they cast you out and play without you now
WHEN YOU'RE BACK ON THE ROCKS, IT MEANS YOU'VE BEEN TO THE TOOOOOOOP

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