Based and absolutely right

> Games aren't art because gamers are stupid and my game was supposed to be liked

???????????????

This sounds juicy, I'd like to know more please

TWEWY did it

>Games aren't art because nobody likes my game, which is clearly not my fault.

Fuck off, games with piece of shit protagonists are fine, thought provoking games are fine.

The problem is that your game sucks.

>You can't make a game with a protagonist who is a bad person, because gamers just can't accept it! Games aren't art!

>*Ignores every Rockstar game*

Maybe your writing just sucks. Maybe the reason your playerbase is "triggered" is that you decided to appeal to the SJWs who only pretend to like games in the first place.

Attached: 1553001795702.png (450x456, 219K)

fuck GAMERS and fuck their TOYS FOR CHILDREN

Sunset. Sold 4000 copies in the first month with half being for kickstarter backers. They put out a couple of interviews with stuff like "lets talk about public funding for games" then tweeted this before closing their company and vanishing.

Attached: Untitled.jpg (455x392, 31K)

It did not.

He's just described Tales of Abyss. You start that game as a whiny, unlikeable shitty person who over the course of the game changes and grows.

I seem to remember people liking this game. So I suspect the guy OP is quoting just made a shitty game.

Poorfags should just be eradicated.

Ok
Uh huh

youtube.com/watch?v=47XW7jx9F9k
youtube.com/watch?v=CkoIUhl8jKU
youtube.com/watch?v=k-aIqQaevLk
youtube.com/watch?v=7wv7HcTjYlI

Great piece of art there my man

Thank you for the laugh user.

Attached: 1399603011743.jpg (279x298, 12K)

But even at the start of ToA you are a cute anime swordsboy with an important place in the world.

This but unironically. I don’t want games to be art. I don’t want them to be chores, or political statements, or a second job, or experimental art pieces, or any of that shit. I want them to be enjoyable.
I work 8 hours a day making good money working hard helping people after being in the education system for almost thirty fucking years, when I come home and want to play a game just let it be a fucking game

Are you implying I wasted my life playing videogames?

He's wrong about people not like a piece of shit that changes by the end. A lot of games have that and are liked here.

Indeed and TWEWY is a great example. A lot of games in general, not even RPGS have characters that get character development/change throughout it and/or by the end of it that people accept.

Not him but it sure as hell did. Neku starts off as a anti social prick that wants to be alone, and as the game progresses he slowly and surely warms up to the people he's forced to work with.

Attached: The World Ends With You Final Remix.jpg (420x420, 64K)

Yes games are for entertainment not listening to some faggot preach atop a soapbox
I'm glad he learned his lesson, even if he had to do it the hard way

So he wanted to make one of the most cliche stories ever and make a video game about it?

Who the fuck is this 80 IQ subhuman?

>17 seconds for an ability
>that cutscene evertyime and aoe spell is used
>all that wasted time in combat in general
fuck i hope theyre not random encounters

LEMONADE

Who is also such an unlikeable, whiny shit that even his companions who are travelling around the world comment on it and eventually leave him because they can't him anymore.

Passive aggression, defensiveness against criticism and blame externalization aren't really traits you want in someone writing about how not to be an asshole desu.

Attached: 1555784995765.png (702x388, 235K)

>Slowly and surely

Abruptly changes his entire world view over a period of 5 days lasting an hour each before he falls unconscious

Thanks for this friend, I was certainly never gonna look that shit up myself
What a shitshow

But that’s in-universe, as a player you’re willing to tolerate Luke being a whiny shit to see his growth because he’s an important character stronger than most non party member people around him.

Abyss was my first thought when I read the OP. I loved it, but I have seen plenty of people on Yea Forums over the years say that they dropped Abyss because they couldn’t stand Luke. But that probably says more about Yea Forums than it does anything. The dev is a pretentious douchbag though. I’m sure there’s a place for him at Naughty Dog.

Even as a player, he is an unlikeable character. He constantly whines and fucks up and is not strong. He gets his ass kicked several times in battles where you the player are in control.

Haven't played it. Looked shit. Saw this image/quote and thought it was some bullshit to say. But... There's no source. So I google. Find a thread on resetera where they hate the game as much as people here, but in that thread, it's because creator dared going on an evil podcast show. Reseyera being what it is, no one even seems to mention the podcast's name (I guess you'll be banned if you spread evil words?). More googling, it's called the dick show, and the quote is edited. After saying "when they look at this", he continues:

"[...] when they play a game, they are so used to having to identify with the character that when they play a game where the main character is unlikeable or has to do some bad stuff [...]"

Seem like a fair observation.

Anyway, game looks shit, creator didn't lose any money and everybody hates him.

Sounds like he was hit by reality

>Panda bear...rier
Made me smile a bit, am I a retard?

making games is a craft, therefore games are art, consisting of various pieces of arts and crafts.

stop putting measures of artness from books/films on games.
the core art is making good gameplay, which none of these fucks talks about. which unquestionably shows they dont play games.

not vidya, fuck off

>craft = art
Nani?

Yeah if you see they linked the webm instead of the podcast it’s resetera rather than people who actually want to discuss it. The first threads were ok discussion.

Good gameplay isn’t art.

No the game is funny sometimes. I really don’t get the bitching even with slow battles I’m pretty sure there’s like 100 max in the game.

But a good story is art. And a great game may have both, right?

spbp

This is the worst part about indie developers. They are retarded and entitled when it comes to actual business. If a studio game flops they either close or work to fix their mistakes. Indiefags just go on an autistic rampage and blame the consumers. Responsibility is always in the hands of the provider of the product you're not just entitled to money.

ye

what's your reason for making good gameplay not being an art? in the true sense, not the 2deep4u sense

>I really don’t get the bitching
Because no matter how much the game's story is art (it isn't in this case, it's complete and utter dog shit as well), the gameplay should at least be servicable enough to not annoy you to death and should adhere to the "rules" the genre dictates. By that I don't mean you're not allowed to innovate but you should really know what turn-based games are like and fucking think hard about why they usually have fodder enemies
Plus, if you just wanna tell a story so much, that should be even more incentive to keep the gameplay to a minimum

not just business, most of the time, they don't even know the first thing about leveldesign and what makes gameplay enjoyable. you know, the parts that actually make the game a game

Not the guy you're talking to but you're confusing terms here. Something being "an art" or the "art of making something" does not mean the result is art, just that a certain finesse is required. I could talk to my dad about the art of laying electric cable but that doesn't mean electricians are artsts

>LOOK, I REMAE THE SAME FUCKING THREAD

is there some marketer trying to push this abortion?

>fuck i hope theyre not random encounters
they are

>But even at the start of ToA you are a cute anime swordsboy with an important place in the world.
who is still a dick at the start.

>But that’s in-universe, as a player you’re willing to tolerate Luke being a whiny shit to see his growth
and guess what YIIK doesn't do. Have the piece of shit MC grow as a characer

Not him but I think it would be like trying to describe a sports players actual playing as art. You can certainly excel and perform masterfully up to and beyond all your peers for example but I dont see how it could ever be considered artistic.

Art:
"Works produced by human creative skill and imagination."

can we stop this fucking subject now? It's been the source for many shit threads for years

no that would be the case if I was making the point that playing games is art.

I'm saying making them is. Designing a game in itself is an artform. And if not then at least it's a craft, which could be argued to be art either way

Shit-heel critics and aesthetes railed against modernist movements in art and architecture as well, artists are entirely justified in lamenting the fact that the public doesn't appreciate them when history proves this in retrospect time and time again.

YIIK did do that though, and even if it didn't there's no obligation for a story to make an asshole character grow to be entertaining.

>play FF4 DS remake
>enter first fight
>a fucking basic attack takes like 5 seconds
>quit game and delete the ROM
What are some games you quit because the combat designers were crazy?

It's kinda cute.

I feel like, with enough effort, this game could've been something pretty decent. Like sometimes you could see something that looks OK. Like that background in the beginning of the final boss video, that looked kinda sick. And sometimes the voice acting isn't terrible.
Like everything looks OK on paper but then, y'know, yeah.

If the developer wasn't such an entitled, pretentious prick then maybe something good could've come outta this?
Maybe?? Fuck I dunno.

Artists have been trying to artificially increase the value of the term into a secret club since the fucking Dawn of man. Socrates btfo them with objectivity and subjectivity but now nobody is calling them out on their retardation for some reason.

>too many gamers
>Yea Forums said
>people have been
Imagine cucking yourself THIS fucking hard because "people" like different things. That is absolutely pathetic.

Attached: 1555060683620.png (550x550, 50K)

why not? there are multiple definitions of art. I would agree that doing something strictly by the book like laying cables isnt an art per se, because it lacks the creative part mostly. If it didn't then it sure as fuck would be art

>YIIK did do that though

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA I am watching a playthrough of YIIK and he is at the part where you have to wait days (persona style) for the final battle.

Alex is still a piece of shit.

Hell, the playthrough shows how bad the game is when the commentators talk about ANYTHING ELSE besides this horrible game.

Completely incorrect. I know people who dropped the game because they couldn’t stand him.

A lot of them still fucking starved like assholes. Who cares what some faggot edgy teen who grows into a faggot Tweed jacket professor thinks of you in 40 years.

this

>this tumblr trash is supposed to be """ART"""
>muh VINTAGE RETRO GAMING aesthetics
>muh STORY
>muh meaningful
>muh impactful
>muh though-provoking
>a P O S T M O D E R N """RPG"""
>All Reviews: Mixed (62)
>Popular user-defined tags for this product:
>RPG Indie Great Soundtrack Surreal __MEMES__
These hipster niggerfaggots should stay as far away from video games as possible. They don't understand the medium, they have no fucking clue how to tie narrative into the mechanics, they don't understand the importance of synergy of all elements, they never think about the importance of interactivity.
Soma is a game about piece of shit unlikable character who by the end of the game transforms into even bigger piece of shit. It's a great game and piece of art even with meh gameplay.
Toys my ass you fucking hipster estrogenigger.

Attached: ss_99a3cb1e314deb1aa193e77b261fd078b22c771d.jpg (1920x1081, 366K)

>why not?
Because I don't wanna philosophize about art, I'm just telling you when some dude talks about, say, the art of brewing beer, he does usually mean to imply his beer is a piece of art

What are some games where the protagonist starts off as a likeable character but by the end of the game is a terrible person?

No one working in the avant-garde expects to be commercially successful, and it kind of precludes it in the first place. Most serious/difficult art is never going to be mainstream and isn't really intended to.

> Who cares what tradition and history thinks of you in 40 years.

Stop posturing m8

You had me till you went on about soma

gamers really are brainlets

Joel

Spec Ops: The Line
Incidentally, that's how you do a guy being a fucking dick in the game. Sure it's divisive but mostly because people got their chains yanked so hard when they thought it was just a shooter

art is a lofty form of expression not meant for primitive dumb dogs

games are all art, you just don't experience the subtle nuance of enriching emotional sensation that can be derived by higher consciousness

you may as well be staring at a wall

also I'm offended that your horrid opinion's expression isn't considered a felony

I meant to put 400 years too but this is a Korean image board so I wasn't taking my time.

He’s pretty based by the end

Its like he developed the game based around his """"great""""" ideas but then didnt test to see if all the ideas together would make the game a total bore

ww link is the villain

Bad writing. Boring gameplay. Try again turbodork.

Tales of Abyss already did it and did it better. Holy simpola.

No, he probably tested it extensively himself but because he's so jumped up his own ass he thought it was wonderful. And of course he never had anyone else test it who could tell him he's being retarded because why would he need it, he's clearly perfect.

there are multiple, for the most part overlapping, definitions of what art means. There's not much to philosophise about in a practical sense

>I don’t want games to be art.
>I want them to be enjoyable.
But this is what makes them art.

Attached: 1520717942931.png (600x600, 215K)

damn, I didn't know the god of arts himself visited this moldawian chair trading forum

>my game being shit was intentional!!!

Attached: 1372473130066.png (500x405, 305K)

Is he an asshole or just annoying? Not the same thing.

>some people would get triggered by it
>OMG THIS MEANS ALL GAMERS ARE CHILDREN

You're gonna get shit for saying that, but you're right. Games are entertainment first and foremost. Some games aren't, but 99% of them are. It's just what games tend to excel at. So why try to emulate the strengths of another medium? (TV and movies) i would love to play a john wick video game, I would absolutely hate a citizen kane game.

I think you can go that route on Soul Nomad and the World Eaters

> So why try to emulate the strengths of another medium?

this x 1000
people who say that kind of shit don't even know what makes a videogame good.
>I didn't like the writing..
get fucked

When people like the dev in OP's image talk about art, they want to be part of that "secret club". They're not talking about art in the large sense that would make wallpaper art.

I'm now totally convinced that he labeled it "postmodern" because he found out (too late) that all his retarded ideas didn't work well together, so he decided to pretend it was purposful. Kinda like what happened with MGS2. And the sad part is that MGS2 is at least still fairly enjoyable to play. Playing this garbage for more than 10 minutes would just be an annoying chore.

>make one of the most unique queer narrative driven cinematic experiences seen in videogames to date
>gamers go buy generic edgelord simulator copycat instead
>Yea Forumsermin celebrate the death of originality
that's why nobody takes videogames seriously and think that gamers all massively overentitled pampered manchildren

Attached: videogames_were_a_mistake.png (409x721, 128K)

He is not wrong. The amount of people who were triggered over the portrayal of Rufus in Deponia is the good example of that.

>poorly made shit written game fails
>throw a hissy fit about it not liking video games

The poor son of a bitch
should've realised that tranny freaks don't buy games period

Alpha Protocol
youtube.com/watch?v=VUydx57te9s

Attached: Alpha-Protocol.jpg (1280x720, 60K)

Too bad even his target audience of woke game journalists thought it was trash.

Triggered? I never even heard of this guy. He can make whatever shit he wants IDGAF.

I just play videogames I don't care about gamer culture or outrage culture or politics.

Attached: Eiyuu.Densetsu.VII.full.1046985.jpg (707x853, 174K)

I'll take this bait.

Originality does not equal good, you fucking faggot.

Go pay somebody to take a shit on your face while dressed up as 2B while doing a reading of Hegel and then come back and tell me how much you enjoyed the originality in that.

>video games need to be art
>this art is problematic

This. Some games can be "artsy" and good though. But it's hard to do.

YIIK it should be called YIKES

Lmao Hatred isn't considered a good game even on Yea Forums. Though the Not Important jokes are fun.

This.
I spend all god damned day dealing with other people's problems. My bosses, my coworkers and especially our clients. I play games because I want to unwind and be entertained.

If a game is plot driven, fine. So long as it's entertaining in some way.
If it's a long haul RPG type affair, OK, as long as it's entertaining in some god damned way.
If it's an artsy fartsy, experimental """""art""""" piece, fine. As long as it's fucking entertaining in some fucking way.

If it feels lile a chore to play, preaches and I have to have major insight from the dev to be able to enjoy it slightly, pass.
And for that matter, if it falls under the "it gets good 30 hours in" meme tree, then fuck that shit too.
Most importantly of all, games are NOT a political platform. When I wanna be political and feel mad, I read the news, or talk to my dad. I play games to escape the bullshit of reality. Not to dig deeper.

Oh, and "post modern" is not an acceptable idea for any game ever. Because it always translates to "lets make it bad intentionally to make fun of other games by doing exactly what they do, but dialed up to 30/10 and pretend that's clever".

Fuck.

I remember a video review of that game. Literally 20 seconds in the guy goes “I BET you there’s Sun Tzu’s Art of War somewhere in this apartment” sure as fuck there it was 5 minutes later and they crack up laughing.

>this game is so pretentious it just gave me a film school degree

Sounds p based desu

You sure it was that game? Cause that sounds like something I remember Broteam saying
Was the laugh the wheezing of some fat guy who sounds like he's daying?

Joel is entirely justified in his decision. There's no guarantee they'd get a cure from Ellie, and even if they did, society was too far gone at that point. No way the fucking bandit gangs and shit would just up and stop their shit because the Fireflies roll up and go "hey we've got a cure, stop being bad now lol." Her death would've been entirely pointless.

More than this, games that are actually art make the gameplay a way to convey the story or ideas too.
This is the big issue with a lot of pretentious games: there’s an oil and water approach to gameplay and story

Can someone tell me what’s wrong with YIIK? I skimmed through part 1 of a playthrough of them walking around in town and it looked kind of comfy.

Someone linked a few videos here I mean, even the first one should immediately show you what's wrong with the game

Except she's a dyke and therefore won't ever pass on her immunity to her children. Humanity's fucked, GG no re

>If it's an artsy fartsy, experimental """""art""""" piece, fine. As long as it's fucking entertaining in some fucking way.
The only fine "art games". Like the Void or those kind of games.

Vidya ain't about originality as is no game. It's about fun and only fun. If it ain't fun, it don't matter what it is because no one will play it.
That said, I haven't played Hatred but just reading the description is more fun than playing Sunset or YiiK.

Attached: 1435748755154.jpg (640x640, 103K)

LISA was able to portray a deeply flawed character without being a failure.

I don't think either group is morally bankrupt. It's mostly point of view. If there was a chance to cure a super-disease using a relative stranger I'd probably sacrifice them too. If that stranger was suddenly my nearly adopted daughter I might react like Joel as well. It's actually decent writing but the gameplay is so damn boring.

What about Undertale? It's not too pretentious and it integrates gameplay into the story a lot

It's/ourgame/

Reading the description and the intro cinematic is the most fun you're gonna get out of hatred. Unless you really like top down shooters.
I don't like undertale for different subjective reasons so I can pronounce myself on it.

>I have missed the entire point of artistic discourse for the last century

You should say originality of story, because originality in gameplay matters a lot

But there are plenty of artistic games out there, critically acclaimed too. Character development is also not a new thing in video game writing either.
Saying that video game consumers can't handle character development, and that is the reason they can't see the artistic values of your game is just...delusional on many levels, and actually kinda sad.

This is the most retarded thing in the entirety of TLoU. If the bitch is immune, the est bet would be to have her get sperm from various men over time , have multiple kids, send those kids off to other safe zones, have them grow up and breed for immunity, etc. This "I'm gay so I don't wanna" shit is retarded, all else fails just tie the bitch down and don't give her a choice. Most modern apocalypse stories pussy around with it but weird sex shit will always happen in these settings.

>i base originality of vidya solely off its presentation and writing. gameplay is for plebs who actually play games heh

Maybe one day they'll let you in to their secret club of real artists.

Yea Forums hates spec ops

>originality in gameplay matters alot
That's probably why we have so many clones of Fortnite and genres dedicated to specific gameplay elements like side scrollers and fighting games.
Originality in gameplay is a mirage painted with variations instead of innovation. If it ain't fun, it ain't good.

sounds like butthurt. And really shit marketing.

thanks for proving my point

I don't give a shit

>Art

Paintings
Statues
Architecture
Movies
Books

>"""art"""
Comics
Cartoons/anime
Beep boops on the screen

Attached: Discobolus_in_National_Roman_Museum_Palazzo_Massimo_alle_Terme.jpg (798x1335, 112K)

first of all, Undertale had fun and sensible battle mechanics, so it did the "game" part better than most artsy games

No, we have a million PUBG clones because someone thought up a new gamemode that was original enough to inflame millions of faggots

That's exactly my point. It created a narrative that was interwoven with the gameplay

why do I know you are the type of person who has no talent whatsoever to ever create any passable versions of your kind of "art" but still try to come off as a superior person on an anonymous imageboard

>games aren't art
>i'll make one to prove its art
>make postmodernist game
>postmodernist art is art that isn't art
>therefore my game is art because it isn't
...
>release to public, everyone hates it
WTF GAMERS

BR games took flight because they're fun, not because they revolutionized the shooter genre. The gamemode itself is a cookie cutter ruleset which eliminates players one by one until only one remains. The ruleset can be easily applied to any genre and is by no means a new idea.
The idea of BR is far from original but it is simply fun.

Ok teach me your beliefs faggot, you can't just go you're wrong and expect anyone to give a shit. Artistic discourse can refer to any number of retarded ideas throughout the centuries.

Attached: tenor.gif (220x124, 165K)

How do retards even end up in this line of work
There are so many other things they could have chosen, why would they pick one full of people they loathe

Holy shit, I didn't know the "if you're such a critic then do it yourself" also applied to fucking sculpting now

yeah, I think Undertale is a good example of an "artsy" game done right.

Note btw how artsy for a game usually means "it made me feel feelings". that should give indication of how people who throw the word "art" around don't even know what they want to say