That's it? That's "one of the best games of all time"?

FUCK NO it's an abomination of the original.

that's what I assumed but this guy seems to be lowkey repping it

>he fell for the metal gear is good meme
It's memed by a bunch of weebs that have never seen a halfway decent movie. Anyone with actual taste sees it for the shitshow that it is. It's a shitty anime with decent gameplay.

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Metal Gear Solid thread? Cool!

fuck twin snakes

>lowkey
stop talking like one of them. you're not

You might have a bit shit taste in vidya.

>Does the series better from here on?
Yes and no.
MGS1 is still the most solid game of the bunch, and a corner stone title. MGS2 is ... meh techdemo. 3 was great, and anything that follows is hit or miss.

>would you recomend TS over the original?
Not him, but no.
I started with TS originally, and had I not played OG MGS1 later on, I sure as hell wouldn't be such a huge fan now. Prolly would think that the whole series' liek a poorman's DMC.

the game is a commentary on murder simulator video games. this should become apparent by the time the meryl codec call comes up where she talks about how she couldnt pull the trigger and snake says something like "it gets easier the more you do it" and "it's easy to forget what a sin is in a middle of a battlefield". you can kill people without hesitation because youre a video game trained killer and it's easy to forget how heinous murder is in a virtual environment. killing bad, usa bad, nukes bad.
bravo kojima

just for the OST changes alone you should never experience MGS for the first time with Twin Snakes

Splinter Cell is the superior stealth franchise,
you should know this

I never said the game was bad, just not cracked up to what I've heard.
I genuinely don't understand how you could defend shit like the key segment.

>stop talking like one of them. you're not
baffling post

I definitely like Splinter Cell 1 over MGS 1. If we're gonna compare it to the others, then it's overkill.
Like I said, hopefully I enjoy the other games better.

All TS has is the engine of MGS2 but it's implemented terribly as the original game environment was never built with first person aiming in mind. I would also recommend just watching a few cutscenes of the same parts that you remember on both versions. Kojima let the director go full retard and made the scenes into ridiculous Hollywood action scenes (as if they weren't already that but it takes it even a step further). Not to mention how the fuck the original voice cast managed to fuck up the voice acting so bad in TS. Anyone who tries to convince you that TS is anything but smoking garbage probably only played TS and never the original.

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It's basically impossible to understand how huge Metal Gear Solid 1 is today.

The game essentially gave birth to the cinematic movie video game. This game was made during a time when Naughty Dog was nothing but "The Crash developers". It's also one of the first 3D Stealth games along with Thief. It seems plain and basic now but back then it was unlike anything else.

christ, i know that movie games are a dime a dozen nowadays, but MGS really does it way better than pretty much everyone else. it's about the presentation more than what you actually do

it's a 20 year old game, its actually aged exceptionally well and really only shows signs of age in its gameplay and graphics, not in its presentation or storyline or art direction

and metal gear solid 2 is so avante garde i'm not even sure most people who played it really understood what it was trying to accomplish. it is an exceptional game but it is not the same kind of game the first one is even though its a literal sequel

>You might have a bit shit taste in vidya.

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>he didn't snipe Sniper Wolf with the pistol and refused to backtrack

>I genuinely don't understand how you could defend shit like the key segment.
Because I look at the whole picture, the taste and mood of the whole game, instead of trying to nitpick and rise up petty little segment into some sort of a pedestal. I also adore open-ended exploration, which may include forced "backtracking" like you youngters call it nowadays.

For a game released in 1998, on a console from 1994, the voice acting, OST, atmosphere and story are phenonal, the cast is all around the best the series ever had, and there's tons of neat little pieces of TECHNOLOGY that the series came to be known for.

Yes, little pepe meme boi.

i don't think anybody is defending the key segments, the game has a shitload of flaws. the senseless backtracking is by far the worst part of the game but its clearly not bad enough to mar people's view of the game as a whole.

>Yes, little pepe meme boi.

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every single video game falls apart if you play it start to finish looking for things to scrutinize. mgs is about the overall spectacle, not about some minute details.

not saying I disagree but
>For a game released in 1998, on a console from 1994, the voice acting, OST, atmosphere and story are phenonal, the cast is all around the best the series ever had,
is the sort of criticism I wish we would move away from. Yes age can contextualise the game but fundamentally a game is good or not. what was good in 1998 might not be good now and therefore the game is retroactively bad. (not saying this is the case for MGS but i have concerns for this line of criticism)

Man, that's one kawaii avatar fag.

yeah and spec ops the line is just a shitty remake of Heart of Darkness during the iraq war

i can be pointlessly reductive and deconstruct things to a grotesque misrepresentation of their intent too, you know

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the worst of the back tracking is the fucking key cards though

you realise low key was used by dickins right? it's not some new slang you tit

why do you think the later games actively punish players for killing and introduced tranq guns? maybe because people didnt get the message the first time and instead of sneaking past enemies they just killed them off?

The boss fights are easily the best part gameplay wise imo.
I fuck loved Crow's last fight and REX especially.

>SOUL
>SOULLESS

soul rhymes with (ass)hole
soulless rhymes with bless
therefore gay people like the first one
and priests like the second
and those who like both are catholics

>is the sort of criticism I wish we would move away from.
No. The context matters a lot.
Obviously not all mega-classics of ye olde times are as magnificent or groundbreaking as they were day 1, but a good number of these evergreen titles still got that *something* that resonates with people.

MGS certainly is one of those games, and the fact that the biggest "issue" folks bring up now is some tiny backtrack section proves how high quality the experience still is. Hell, when the game came out, the closest thing to it gaming magazines could recommend were other "cinematic" titles of the time, such as fucking Resident Evil 2.

the context matters for history and influence but not for the quality of the game. it doesn't matter how influencial ultima 1 was it is not a good game in 2019.

Just read the Boss Battles book about this by the Burches and its fucking awful. I wish I had never read it. Skipped about half of it due to it being filled by postmodern garbage. It's so easy to generate shit content with that lens.

not read it and I assume it's shit because it's some gamer twats writing about video games but MGS is clearly a postmodern game

I unironically feel sad for you, you're incapable of appreciating MGS beyond the most superficial level; maybe you should stick to Splinter Cell. MGS is not for people who just want to go down a checklist of established gameplay tropes and safe storytelling. Come back to it in 10 years and see if anything has changed.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying MGS is particularly deep or inscrutable but you can't understand the reason it's a classic because you've been raised on pig slop.

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I love mgs series. It is a good game when you take it for what it was when it came out at first, and then relate it to what came after. It's a master crafted game

Metal Gear Solid is great. But if you don't like it, then the series probably isn't for you.

>NUKES BAD
>WAR BAD
>KILLING BAD
Really deep messages here, lad.

The historical context matters a lot, because expecting a game from 1998 to be able to pull out 2019's standards (or its lack of 'em) is absurd. The quality of MGS1 is astronomically high, but it's a different thing when it comes to subjective tastes, as obviously not every game appeals to everyone.
This is even more the case with two+ decades old titles, as not only were games vastly different back then, compared to modern stuff and other titles of the era.

And here where a new phenomenon steps in: younger player's personal experience with / exposure to games of different eras. If one's grown and lived with only late 00s and beyond's games, which to be honest are mostly carved out of the same wood these days, going back to the more experimental and ambitious titles of 1990s may initially cause a major culture-shock, and thus a rejective emotion.

>war is bad
Not sure if you played the same game as the rest of us. In most of the series it's about soldiers fighting for their own moral code, instead of politicians..

>the later games actively punish players for killing
But they don't.

The game is about the cutscenes and unique bosses.

If you hate cutscenes, you might as well go play Mario.

>Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying MGS is particularly deep or inscrutable
So do people like you understand how retarded you are or does that level of introspection require a few more IQ points than you can muster?
Grow up child.

>The game is about the cutscenes
Then why isn't it a movie?

Yes, the series gets better. MGS 3 is probably the best incarnation of classic MGS. MGS 4 was probably the worst. MGS V is a great game too, but it’s almost completely different.

If you’re critical of MGS 1 you have to realize this game is over 20 years old now. What made this (and MGS 2) stand out was what they accomplished at their time. There were no other games like them at the time, and they innovated in ways that became standards in other games and influenced how 3d, mechanics, and storytelling were done.

But they haven’t necessarily aged well. MGS 2 probably aged the worst. The whole game (after the first chapter) is a set of hexagonal rooms that connect to each other and all for the most part look alike. The map just fucking sucks.

And halfway through MGS 2 most of the conversations just turn into codec calls. Even when you’re standing right next to the guy. The president is the best example of this. You’re literally standing next to him and he’s like “eh, I like codec calls better.” Great way to save your animation budget but it just comes off as super lazy.

It isn't?

>Then why isn't it a movie?
Just go read a book nerd
Actually no, why not just go look at nature and make up a story with your own imagination, dipshit?

You seem to be upset.

>The historical context matters a lot, because expecting a game from 1998 to be able to pull out 2019's standards (or its lack of 'em) is absurd.
wrt mechanics and quality gameplay i don't think it's absurd at all. I think it's absurd to suppose that just because a game is old shit gameplay should be forgiven when there's so many old games with good mechanics.

>
And here where a new phenomenon steps in: younger player's personal experience with / exposure to games of different eras. If one's grown and lived with only late 00s and beyond's games, which to be honest are mostly carved out of the same wood these days, going back to the more experimental and ambitious titles of 1990s may initially cause a major culture-shock, and thus a rejective emotion.
I completely disagree with this as well. I don't have many interactions with young people but those who are seriously interested in games have reported very positively when they go back and play a link to the past or whatever. hell, I was playing pong with my 10 year old cousin the other year and he had a good time and this is from someone who loves fortnite. The majority of people have never appreciated these historical games.

It might also help if you reread my original post where I said I don't think this applies to MGS because you seem to keep arguing from the perspective of support for this game rather than a broad critical perspective.

Actually you seem to be upset AND stupid, the perfect synthesis of human garbage
Disprove my thesis

Cringe.

Fucking destroyed

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2 doesnt actively punish you but it has the same condescending tone as 1 and offers tranq alternative
mgs3 has the sorrow sequence
PO PW and V have the recruiting mechanic to further humanize these enemies you are slaughtering

>The idea of a stealth game was still pretty fresh
tenchu came out earlier that year and was much better
thief came out a month later and blew it out of the fucking water

mgs isn't just bad, it's bad in light of its contemporaries. it didn't age because it always sucked

tenchu stealth is tash, stop leading OP to more disappointment

MGS gimick is the story, the boss fights and details on the gameplay and mechanics which are better in MGS2 and MGS3.

>thief came out a month later and blew it out of the fucking water

mgs isn't just bad, it's bad in light of its contemporaries. it didn't age because it always sucked
hard to disagree with these two comments desu. tenchu was a bit shit too tho lad.

You fucking retard, do you even realize that MGS' stealth is basically identical to the original MG2 which came out way earlier?
Also comparing Tenchu and Thief and MGS simply because they're "stealth" is fucking retarded. It's like comparing Quake, Deus Ex and Call of Duty just because they're all FPS. Just kill yourself.

>I think it's absurd to suppose that just because a game is old shit gameplay should be forgiven when there's so many old games with good mechanics.
So is there something wrong with MGS' mechanics ?
I am not talking for every single game of 90's, just this one title.

Still, I will argue in favor of the historical context of the game as well, even more so when late 90s was the learning phase for 3D gaming.

>those who are seriously interested in games have reported very positively when they go back and play a link to the past or whatever.
And I only got around playing LttP after 2005 or so, and I thought it was absolute bollocks. Perhaps the worst 2D Zelda game.

>it might also help if yoyu reread my original post where I said I don't think this applies to MGS
Yes, I got that already on the first time. Does not mean that I would agree with the tone and message.

Metal Gear came out a decade earlier, and arguably coined the whole genre. MGS1 was merely a re-warming of MG2:SS for the westerners, and an amazing audio-visual marvel.

MGS was a huge success within players and critics. People of old and young still love it, and it's generally very easily approached game. Sorry, but you're just a sad little contrarian in this case.

>So is there something wrong with MGS' mechanics ?
>Yes, I got that already on the first time. Does not mean that I would agree with the tone and message.
you clearly dont understand as you demonstrated within your own post!
>And I only got around playing LttP after 2005 or so, and I thought it was absolute bollocks. Perhaps the worst 2D Zelda game.
not surprised at all considering your reading comphrension and understanding of the argument.

I bet you unironically defend Ocarina of Time too.

No, I did and do understand.
I just don't get why you keep bringing up unrelated complaints if they don't apply to the main topic. Plus like said, I disagree with your stance towards the game's original time frame.

>lol you like THE game of all times?? What a fag! ;^)
t. (You).

Mgs1 is my favorite. If you weren't blown away by shadow Moses's atmosphere and the various twists and turns of the plot, the great voice acting and characters like grey fox and liquid idk what to tell you dude.

SNAAAAAKE
LIQUIIIIID
Shirtless battles on top of metal gears my man.

Mgs2 was made specifically to piss off people who liked mgs1, so you might actually like that one. It's stupid and a pain in the dick at times but it gets VERY interesting towards the end. 3 is a great spy romp through the Soviet union. Just play those 3 and get back to us

Yep, it IS THE game
THE most overrated game of all time, that is.

i tried playing ps1 tenchu awhile ago and the draw distance was so close being such an old game, i wasnt able to finish it. the draw distance in tenchu is like 15 ft. lol

>THE most overrated game of all time, that is.
21 years later, and you're still mad?

you might want to reflect on my original post: you might not like the point I brought up but you then chose to engage with it (or rather you continued to reply to me when i'm talking about this).

Easy to recognize actual stealth fans from complete idiots talking from their asses.
I love Tenchu and Thief but they have very rudimentary, janky mechanics that fall way short of MGS's comparatively sophisticated AI.
Ironic that "whose footprints are these?" is meme status when other stealth games don't even have that functionality and operate on simplistic line of sight or sound triggers. Not to mention all the other obscure little interactions you get from MGS series guards that are literally unique in the entirety of gaming.
Pic related, replaying the Tenchu series this week in glorious high resolution

>Mgs2 was made specifically to piss off people who liked mgs1
No, it was Kojima trying to reach out to his fanbase about actual important issues but he severely overestimated our intelligence. The series has been nothing but blatant pandering ever since and we deserve pachinko gear for betraying Kojima.

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>Metal Gear came out a decade earlier, and arguably coined the whole genre.
>You fucking retard, do you even realize that MGS' stealth is basically identical to the original MG2 which came out way earlier?
Then I guess the idea of a stealth game wasn't fresh!

>Then I guess the idea of a stealth game wasn't fresh!
I wouldn't have agreed with this premise but what MGS did do was expose a lot of people to stealth gameplay which has been something of a mixed blessing. It's certainly one of the most influential games of all times though, for a reason.
This has nothing to do with the fact that you're a dumbass though

Look, it may be very hard for you to understand, but I *do* get it.
You are *not* judging MGS with the statements. Got it.
And yes, I do gladly engage with opposing view points, even more so when it's about a topic I'm passionate AF about, and when consider things like the release date to be some of the undeniable factors when judging any game. It's no free-pass, cure-it-all argument for every issue of every game, but a big element to keep in mind.

But it was, since up until MGS1, barely any other stealth games got released. It was all about FPS and platformer games.

None of that is punishing you for going full Rambo on everything. If anything lethal has always been the easier option.

>But it was, since up until MGS1, barely any other stealth games got released.
I named two other stealth games the same year in the post you quoted. Stick to a story.

Why do you type shit like:
>So is there something wrong with MGS' mechanics ?
then? at least you admit you were chatting nonsense then though I guess.
It's something to keep in mind definitely wrt the legacy/influence/historical/political etc etc context of the game but it has essentially nothing to do with the quality of the game. If a game was "good" 20 years ago but it is not good now then it is not a good game. you can appreciate it's legacy/influence/context w.e. as much as you like but it's not a good game.

>I named two other stealth games the same year in the post you quoted. Stick to a story.
Yes. Now name all the numerous stealth games released before 1998, after 1986.
Just because there was a surprise boom at that one point, does not mean that the genre would've been big or popular up until that point.

This 100%
>Get to sniper wolf
>Have to go back to get the psg and return
>Get captured and end up in the same place for a third time
I love MGS and didnt really notice it on the first playthrough what with being caught up in the story and all, but it seriously detracts from the game on further playthoughs

I've beaten both multiple times and TS is a perfectly good game, just not a good way to experience MGS1 for the first time.

Places like Shadow Moses and Big Shell are characters in their own right. You spend a lot of time with them, you get to learn their quirks. What you remember about them the first time through helps when you go through them in reverse, with a different enemy layout. It's like building rapport and familiarity.
I first noticed this when playing one of the Splinter Cells, that it just throws you into different locales almost randomly and to me that wasn't as satisfying as having a well developed single locale.
Not saying it's not at its core about spreading sparse content as far as it can go due to budget but lately in my first playthrough of Sekiro I predicted that we'd have to go through a shit-hits-the-fan version of Ashina Castle and I was not disappointed.
Neither approach is wrong but I just don't get as much satisfaction from going through a string of diverse levels with some thin justification for being sent there and a massive disconnect inbetween "missions."

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Perhaps kojima had I portabt things to say and felt raiden was a better stand in for the player. Sure. But you got to admit he knew he would piss off a bunch of people switching out solid snake like that. And the whole S3 plan plotline. Basically recreating mgs1 but stupid with worse fox hound and worse snake and worse grey fox. It's a strange jab at the notion of sequels imo. It's not the most portant part of the game but it's there. And you can tell he resents his fans by looking at mgs4 where he goes all out with aggressive pandering "did you like it?" Kind of shit

post best songs

youtube.com/watch?v=J9AAArXGB28

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AHHHHHH Im watching the epilogue of MGS4 right now, I just beat it playing non stop over the past 2 days. This shit is retarded as fuuuuuuuuuck. Was pretty fun game though, fuck these cutscenes made me love MGSV 10x more.

The entire charade was to show how easily we're fooled when context was doctored and it would've been fine if we weren't addled hedonistic teens at the time, incapable of being aware of anything but chin-up technology and fully destructible watermelons. It really is his magnum opus and his attempt to elevate games to something more than mere diversions.
He took a big risk with MGS2, it didn't pay off and now we're living the dystopia. Ya'll took the Patriotpill and they wrote themselves out of the story and replaced the real conspiracy with a cringe Big Boss retcon fanfiction that plays like Splinter Cell.
Also if anything was a FUCK YOU to MGS1 fans it was Twin Snakes. MGS2 however had Kojima's soul poured into it.

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You just like it cause it says memes 50 times

This is the type of game that brainlets think it's amazing because it makes them feel smart. Like Game of Thrones does on TV.

Overall it's a pretty simplistic game with serviceable gameplay and an engaging melodramatic story.

Metal gear is leftist propaganda
>Lol Gene's don't matter
>Nukes bad
>Le epic pregnant soldier
>Lol why not just get along with the savages goyim
>Killing enemy bad
>Le epic slut sniper is so empowering yues queen
>Patriotism is bad
Don't play this garbage game

That's rising
2 only says it a few times

>He can't see kino when it hits him in the face
Pity
youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Zp4nwsFA

mgs literally invented movie games
its truly a blight on gaming

Give me a break, the fight was kinda funny. Ocelot was just pretending btw, right? Thats what MGSV showed, he likes to pretend.
At the end of the fight he says "your father" instead of our father and does his finger pointies. He was just joking around the whole game, right?

Dickens was a nigger from Sumatra where your grandparents are from.