Are all the dlc characters gonna be as half assed as Joker?

There must be dozens of characters with a "swing something around me in a circle nair", you could at least pick one that starts the circle in the same place as his does.

Yeah it’s so lazy it’s not like they had to reanimated his whole moveset again for a second character like Arsene. Also let’s ignore the fact his gun gives him two additional aerials.

>You can't make a comparison like this with any other characters besides echos
Sick lies bro.

Show me one, I'll give you 24 hours.

This game has 75 characters, each with something like 15 total moves. Every move that could have been made in smash has been made. Different combinations of moves and modifications to how they work is what you will get out of any new character by default.

>Falco is now human
>Just copying most of your moves is now “moves their limbs the same” even though there are thousands of ways to move your limbs
The absolute state on Nintendo Apologists

You are comparing him to many different characters and even then you're ignoring his gun which is the basis of his whole movesets. If you compare him to any one specific character and include the gun you will find he is very unique.

Not him but dr mario

Yea> I mean, the Joker was the first impression so....Don't have hopes. Expect another Anime swordsman with a counter and most of his moves are just copy/pasted.

echo

Nah if you compare mario and dr mario's moves in the training stage like in OP, they are less similar than the OP.

>While we're cherry picking
Did you know half the roster is uncreative trash? I mean, they all have the same 1 2 punch jab. Cant Nintendo just make them have an autistic finger fit when I press A?

He's not though

What are you talking about?
People still are complaining about how Ganon still borrows most of his moves from CF, instead of having a unique moveset based around his games.

Most of those animations look literally nothing like the ones they're being compared to. Or are you throwing a shit fit because they're kinda similar?

(you)

>dair and bair aren't even contorting his body in the same way as the Fire Emblem characters
>the nair is completely different from Mii Gunner's in both animation and hitbox coverage

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This, there are like 30 characters who spin aroumd for their nair.

Everyone is just a fucking copy of kirby
>DDD's inhale
>Ike's up B
>DDD's down b
>Little Mac's jab
>Snake's back air
>Jiggly's down air
I could go on but we'd be here forever

(You)

>gun which is the basis of his whole movesets.
Firstly, the entire basis of his character is having a Persona, which is also pretty similar to how Cloud’s limit works, just with a form rather than a super move
Secondly, gun is also similar to Bayo’s guns, but admitively are more advanced.
Lastly, what does this have to do with Joker just stealing most of his moves from other characters?
I can understand if it was a joke about how he’s the Phantom Thief, but that is still pretty lazy.

This just in: Devs re-use animations, models, and skeletons since the creation of video games.
Fucking neck yourself, retard.

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Joker being in Smash instead of an SMT rep shows how cucked Nintendo really is.

>This guy is a copy of 10 characters put together
Is that how far the autism goes in the Smash fanbase?

This Just In: shills relentlessly defend a lazily crafted DLC character who costs way more than any other character in the roster.
Shill’s motivations are currently unknown as he does it for free.

Every sword user is a copy of Link
Everyone, including sword users from other games.

>which is also pretty similar to how Cloud’s limit works, just with a form rather than a super move
So not similar at all besides that there's a meter involved? Cloud's limit gauge fills up by taking or dealing damage, or manually charging it by holding down B, and getting hit while using his down B makes him lose meter. Joker's fills up slowly over time and by taking damage, not dealing damage, and he has to take damage when using his down B to fill it up faster. Cloud's limit status expires in 15 seconds or if he uses a Limit Break, Joker's persona form lasts 30 seconds but is shorted by taking damage. Cloud in limit form has all of his movement-based attributes boosted and his specials improved, but using the specials ends the form. Joker's movement attributes do not change at all, instead all of his moves are powered up and none of them end the persona state.

>>pretty similar to how Cloud’s limit works
Cloud's Limit is a one time use Final Smash tier move that he can charge manually. Joker's is a powered up version of himself that requires Joker to take hits to fill, these two things are nothing alike outside of both of them using Meter, Little Mac's KO Punch meter is fucking closer to Cloud's than Joker's is.
>Secondly, gun is also similar to Bayo’s guns, but admitively are more advanced.
Bayo's gun is a move that requires charge time, forces Bayo to stay in place and does good offstage knockback due to firing multiple times at once. Joker's allows him to move after shooting, lets him dodge out of it, and has about 4 different variations.
The only thing the two moves have in similar is that one spinning thing, but Bayo doesn't have the gun wavedash, doesn't have that Dante style dive thing and can't jump out of her guns, you might as well say shit like Greninja's neutral B is a copy of Samus' charge shot because they both need to charge even though their functions are completely different.
>>Lastly, what does this have to do with Joker just stealing most of his moves from other characters?
Because this is also a retarded argument that can be applied to anyone, let's do it to plant right now.
>Plant's nair is just a copypaste of Ivysaur's
>Plant's uair is just a copypast of Lucas'
>Plant's dsmash is just a copypaste of Mario's
>Plant's down air is just a copypaste of Dr. Mario's
It's retarded, there's 70+ characters in this game, the fact that OP needed to draw from over 5 to try to make this argument proves there's nothing copypasted about Joker at all, especially compared to characters like Corrin who share several aerials, all of their tilts, and some specials with Marth.

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>people want to fuck up my Ganondorf
you people are going into my oven before the furries, disgusting shits

Why are Nintendofans so angry and defensive all the time.
It's okay to admit that your multi billionaire company could do a little better. They're not your friends.

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Reusing a move or two from other characters has always been a common thing but oh wow, this really is a bit too much.

>Punches someone
>They punch back
>WTF WHY WONT YOU JUST LET ME PUNCH YOU?

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Ah, you see. When you start imagining a scenario in which you get angry, you actually do get angry. You should try not doing that. Hope that helps, friend!

The thing is, he's not punching you, he's punching someone else who deserved it and you're jumping in like a white knight faglord.

Every company does it.
There's no fucking point in singling out one company.

your hos got heed, get over it

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Shitch eaters

>everyone else does it, so it's fine
I don't want to say that Nintendofans in particular are overall extremely spineless and easily manipulated by "nostalgia marketing", but I kind of do

Imagine being that fucking autistic about a children's party game.

It’s a limit that charges up while you play, increases more when using the down special that immobilizes you and serves no other purpose but to increase their meters, then will buff in every area of stats for a short amount of time.

>I'm only going to condemn Nintendo for doing it, and nobody else.
?

are you kidding? dr mario is almost a clone of mario with a couple moves changed and stat adjustments

It only increases when you're hit btw
Nice job showing you hate a game you havent even played.

He's not a clone dumbass. It's the same exact dude, he just puts on a white coat.

It only increases when you get hit, not just from pressing Down + B, lmao.

Samus' uptilt is the same as Captain Falcon's and has been since 64
Sheik, joker and Samus Upair have the same animation.
Megaman was the first to have a slide kick, then Cloud got one too. The Belmont share the exact same cycle as Cloud's which was, then, recycled for joker.
K.Rool's back air is Mario and dr Mario's Fair
Just off the top of my head.

>show me
You have the game dont you dumbass, or are you just shitposting?

This just in: crazy autist ignores the fact that they have always done this, so suddenly it is surprising to the autist

>It’s a limit that charges up while you play
Under different conditions of play
>increases more when using the down special that immobilizes you
Only in the right circumstances, of which each meter is different.
>and serves no other purpose but to increase their meters,
Joker's gives him super armor and can be used to survive moves that would KO you, on top of reducing the damage itself.
>then will buff in every area of stats for a short amount of time.
Neither one buffs "every area of stats", they both buff different things.

Readjust that tinfoil you stupid nigger. You are currently complaining about this on an anonymous imageboard and you are not currently helping any issue right now. Take your complaints to someone else if you care so much.

Why does Joker seem so rushed? His model, voice acting and moves all seem lower quality than most of the other characters. You can fall out of his dash attack, you can fall out of eigaon, and there's this dumb mechanic that if your control stick is on neutral, you get stuck in an animation you can't get out of for a good amount of frames. Also gun is a really bad move.

>what? I have to PAY for DLC??? Outrageous! All the moves are the same!
This is the same duck hunt/banjo fag from before. Opinion discarded.

triggered

>Joker gets his own victory screen
fuck this dude. fuck anime and fuck japan

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Smash has never been that creative with standard moves, that said with so many characters there's obviously going to be repeats

They should've made Joker's fsmash Snake's triple knife slash from Project M, that shit was cool

It’s actually funny.
Hal released several different characters in Kirby Star Allies, all of which had very unique movesets, and all for free with updates.
Now smash releases a $6 (or $25 if you bought the entire pack) DLC character with 1 new stage, but all the effort was put into Persona references and victory screens.
Flynn or Demifiend wouldn’t have done this to us.

Multiple characters in Star Allies' DLC were obviously based off of other characters and movesets, like Taranza pulling some moves from Spider.

You're just looking for reasons to argue.
Smash has always recycled its assets between cgaracters because Smash wasn't originally meant as a Nintendo All-Stars crossover, So evety goddamn character you get in Smash since then is a variation of a Polygon fighter. These are the skeletons they've been working on since then and adding a few new ones when Zelda and Peach got introduced in Melee.

Now how this is relevant is when daggots like OP come in. Dishonestly acting surprised that Ultimate recycles assets between characters even though tgey did it for Cloud, they did it for Plant and they did it for Corrin and you use this argument as your base to just unoriginally shit all over Nintendo for the 30 thousandth fucking time. You're grasping at straws, you're cherrypicking.
Then people point that exact dumbassery out and you go "WOW WHY YOU DEFENDING NINTY SO FUCKING HARD BRO?" when nobody is actually defending Nintendo, we're just exposing OP for the dumbass shitposter that he is.
You're dishonest and manipulative.

hahaha funni poopi

>joker
>low kick, back kick
>ZSS
>spinning kick
>joker
>upside down downward slash
>marth
>downward slash
>joker
>back slash
>roy
>turning back slash
>joker
>full body spin slash
>mii
>arm spin
>joker
>right leg slide kick
>simon
>left leg slide kick
Falco is the only on that's the the same move.

You're not actually "winning" just because you dismiss people who put effort in their useless replies while keeping some form of highground in thinking "lol why even try nigger?" Because at the end of the day we're both fucking losers.

Hes not punching you, you're just fanboy

Greninja also has the exact same up air, yeah.

Nobody is actually defending Nintendo by pointing out that OP doesn't know what he's talking about.
Read a book nigga, do something better than shitpost on your Saturday.

>>Punches someone
>>They punch back
Are you admitting you actually work for Nintendo?

>It's just a company dude, you're just a consumer, it's okay to not settle for mediocrity
ninkeks:
>THIS IS LITERALLY VIOLENCE

Yes I am and we also have your home address and browsing habits.
ooooOOOOOoooo Nintendo is coming for you! Spooky scary Nintendo!

>OP clearly shows that Joker (a paid for DLC character) reuses a ton of moves
>Responses include “But everyone else does it” and “No, Roy’s Bair has his elbow 30 degrees away from his body, while Joker has his elbow at 45 degrees”
>”We’re not defending Nintendo!”

Corrin's dtilt and up tilt is nothing like marth's.

>reuses a ton of moves

>“No, Roy’s Bair has his elbow 30 degrees away from his body, while Joker has his elbow at 45 degrees”
who are you quoting?

Thanks Pajeet. Now we 100% know Nintendo does infact hire shills to defend their laziness.

It's a byproduct of
>70+ roster
>increasing amount of human characters

>moves have different animations
>I-IT'S THE SAME MOVE

This is DLC. It was made after the game was finished.
What the fuck are you talking about

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this just in: sonygro is crying

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Sakurai put all of his effort into elements related to Joker rather than Joker himself.

That doesn't change anything, you misread.

Are you retarded?

When they released Cloud in Smash 4, who was paid DLC and recycled assets from other characters, you were not there to complain
When Corrin got released as paid DLC in Smash 4, recycling assets from swirdies, you were not there to complain
When Plant was released, being Optionally free DLC that everyone else still has to pay for, recycling assets from other characters, you were not there to complain.
But now that Joker is here, sharing about 4 moves with other characters, NOW you're making a thread and antagonizing everyone calling out that it's a complete nonissue since Joker plays very differently from EVERY SINGLE character he borrows from and plays very uniquely from the rest of the cast to the point where it's kind of fucking up the meta a little bit. THEN do you fucking get on your high horses and xalling everyone a shill.
Besides, animation and move recycling is something Nintendo's been doing in Smash since game 1 and nobody ever saw a problem with it. Do you also complain that 5 to 6 characters have Hadouken as their projectile in SF 4 and 5 and that every fireball is some firm of minor variation of the Hadouken or that every DP in the fucking games are copypastes of the Shoryuken?
You have no argument and nobody has to defend Nintendo to understand that all you're trying to do is be dishonest for tge sake of (you)s
Don't you have videogames to play or suicide to commit or something?

Better lock your doors tonight son because Nintendo is about to claim your fucking life.

New nintendie copypasta gained.
Thanks

Are you enjoying yourself? Is this helping with your life? Or are you going to be le epic jaded cynical depressed user "lmao I don't care that I hate myself"?

based

Yus

someone get these hotheads outta here

>Character moves similar to another when both have a weapon in the air, are known to be agile fighters, etc
>WOW LAZY CLONE WHAT THE FUCK
I grow to like Joker even more with these retarded posts

Can mods delete this fucking thread already?

Cope

Actually I just checked and the forward tilt is nothing like marth's either. Animation wise forward air is also different, with the head and legs in very different positions. Up air is the only one that's similar, but it does have a significantly bigger hitbox than Marth's.
So uhhh...happy one animation I guess, complete copypasted marth clone.

Brave's hogging all the attention.

People gave Cloud a pass for reusing assets since he at least brought many new assets, the reused assets are not used as often, and was not advertisement for an upcoming game.

Joker on the other hand, reuses a lot more assets, doesn’t provide that many new assets, and is just advertisement for P5R (which isn’t even on a Nintendo console yet).
It also doesn’t help Joker that he is yet another character with a Down B counter/reflector, while Cloud is one of the few Blade users without a counter.

>doesn’t provide that many new assets
What did he mean by this?

this is a take from someone who doesn't play this game. Plant has fun animations but his design as a character has no synergy and no depth. Joker is MUCH better designed. His moves compliment each other, he has difficult but rewarding confirms and the arsene mechanic is completely unique and makes his character one of a kind.
Plant has...typical brawler standard moves and a grab bag of special moves that have literally zero synergy between them or with his standard moves.

All they need to do now is add in a JoJo character and Smash will officially have the worst fanbase of all time

Jesus Christ man. You are really embarrassing.

>reuses a lot more assets

yikes

Why are you defending this? And getting mad about it instead of providing an actual argument? Are you a child?

Wrong

With the exception of his forward smash, all his other "Copycat" moves function completely different

... Arsene is pretty much a Stand.

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>$20

It's $6 you cunt, and it includes stages, music and spirits

God the labels are so pathetic, literally any kind of shitpost to give them attention

Bayonetta soon up air
The dair gun looks cool tho

Off topic, but goddamn is Joker the most unfun cunt character to fight. Win or lose he's fucking annoying as hell. I absolutely loathe this character, he actively makes the game worse.

Thank you for reading my blog.

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>75 characters, peak of creativity and imagination achieved. There is not feasible way to move limbs differently
Lol

>meta knight

>There is not feasible way to move limbs differently
Joker is moving his limbs differently

He's slippery but theres no better feeling than a joker popping arsene and then getting caught in my whirlwind of reads and strings until they die or lose him.

>Yea Forums still seething at joker

Arsene is a buff. There is nothing special about him.

Luma is closer to a stand dynamic, and not even intentionally.

>There is not feasible way to move limbs differently

No one gives a shit bitch joker is a 6 dollar echo fighter thanks for buying goyim

Shhhhhhh these people don't care about gameplay in the fucking slightest. They are completely bitch-brained.

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>Every move that could have been made in smash has been made.
Wow I guess Smash is shit then for having no originality big enough to last 20 years.

If that was true where's my GoW gameplay style? Or Dante? Or Steve? Hell why even make anymore DLC when they will be clones of existing, already owned, movesets?

Imagine OP playing fighting games
>wow, every time i press the kick button all the characters do a kick, the devs are so lazy for reusing assets

Are you retarded?

You seem to be.

really dissapointing character desu. the only persona rep we will ever get and he uses exactly one persona. i dont know what the fuck they were thinking

>is completely unique and makes his character one of a kind.
It's almost exactly the same thing as Cloud's Limit and Lucario's aura. It's not unique at all.

I said the same thing in a thread last night and autists jumped down my throat that I should have never expected anything else. I honestly am growing to fucking hate smash fans.

That's such horseshit, Joker had endless potential for unique moves from summoning different Persona and instead they went the easy way of giving him 1 Persona and making it not function remotely similar to how it does in the games. The reality is designing a character like Rosalina or Pokemon Trainer would have taken way more work so they just didn't even if it would have fit the character better.

>It's almost exactly
The only similarity is that it's a buff, the way they work is completely different.

>the only persona rep we will ever get and he uses exactly one persona.
What did you expect, retard?

Shut the fuck, idiot. Shove it down your throat. Consume. Don't question it. Just consume and move on.

god i hope so.
this is what you faggots deserve for PRE-ORDERING fucking dlc.

How would you implement more personas to his move sets and make it balance and fun to use? Legit curious, i don't think it would work that well.

Nintendofags are the Marvelfags of video games

That powers up and changes his special moves, exactly like Limit does.

A switching Persona mechanic, using different Persona for his neutrals like Megaman does boss powers, a puppet mechanic similar to Luna's. These are all things I would have vastly preferred and they all would have made him more unique and true to his game as well as represented Atlus much larger family of RPGs outside Persona. They absolutely knew people would be disappointed by this because Ann even has a line about it in the trailer.

>literally zero new animations
>gun move sucks dick
>Arsene doesn't even do anything but fly, for fuck's sake his starting magic and strength stats are equal, he can do physical shit like Cleave too
>down B is literally a mismash of different counters plus it makes no sense because Joker is a stealthy sly type of fighter, not a full-on tank that should absorb hits
>I beat Persona 5, I don't remember Joker ever using a grappling hook, let alone using it to pull enemies on

Other than having a fuckton of combo routes, there's really not much good you can say about Joker's Smash version. His moveset makes no sense, all his moves are recycled there's nothing new gameplay wise.

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Limit is a one time use finisher, Arsene is a timed power up.

>a character has moves
OH NO NO NO NO NO

>They absolutely knew people would be disappointed by this because Ann even has a line about it in the trailer.
Are you retarded?

What do I do against a good Joker as Ridley? Felt like I just couldn't land any hits on some guy as him.

>some literal vessel for self-insertion
>not Jack Frost
>not Pyro Jack
>not fucking Mara or whatever other dumb meme
>but a god damn anime dude #82345389745843 with LITERALLY no character to him what so ever lifted from an overrated style over substance zoomer magnet game
personafags should be shot on sight

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Yes how they are triggered is slightly different but they change the character in the same way. All of this would be less obnoxious if Persona functioned anything like this in their games but they don't. Joker can't cast Eiha without a Persona and Arsene doesn't have Eiga or Eigon. This character was hacked together in a low effort way using existing ideas that were easy to implement instead of ones that were true to the character that would require more work.

Are you?

confirmed for being retarded

>I don't remember Joker ever using a grappling hook

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Joker has two unique result screens and has the stage with the most unique gimmick centered around the rep in mind. The most QUALITY thing about him is Arsene not changing color to match the costume and DLC fighters not getting their own Palutena wisdom scene when fucking Piranha Plant got one of the longest.

Blame Nintendo and Sega for picking low fruit.

youtu.be/5YsDOo5lzg8?t=55
"What? Arsene? Can't he use a more powerful Persona?" Ryuji
"What Arsene is awesome" Said Ann but literally no one else. No one who played Persona 5 used Arsene for any amount large of time and thought, this is an awesome demon. So wanna try to explain yourself or you gonna take the easy way out again and just insult me?

Not a nintendofag but if you think these animations are literaly copypasted you are an idiot.
There is only a few ways you can swing as sword or throw a kick or puch and make it look convencing, the game has like what? 50 something characters of corse some of his attacks will look similar to an extent to others?

pic kinda related

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Smash Bros is a game where each character has on average
>3 tilts
>1 neutral
>5 air moves
>4 specials
>4 smash attacks
And you guys want the game to have Tekken-tier variety of moves?
Not gonna happen until Smash has more complex inputs put into it. Ryu and Ken have the biggest variety of moves because their gimmick is to be "complex" fighting game characters.
And even then, Tekken, Street Fighter and even fucking Mortal Kombat reuse moves and assets.
Even games with 50+ move lists for 20+ characters reuse animations and assets and you want a game with 70+ characters with each having on average 17 moves available to be super duper varied?

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Piranha Plant getting Palutena's Guidance just means that he was picked pretty early in development. At least, he was picked while they were recording audio.

>A switching Persona mechanic
Sure, i don't think it would be pretty fun though, the moves would probably be shit since they would have to balance the fact that he would have much more moves than the other characters.
>using different Persona for his neutrals like Megaman does boss powers
That wouldn't feel like Joker, the character is Joker not "SMT dude", that's the problem i have with this idea.
>a puppet mechanic similar to Luna's
If the was just Arsene, could be good but then people would complain it's still just one persona. If it was multiple personas you go back to the first problem of balancing.
>represented Atlus much larger family of RPGs outside Persona
Again, it's Joker not "SMT dude".
IMO i think they did a good job in making him a good representation of the character Joker even if the lack of multiple personas is a flaw.

OK, does he ever use one outside of menu artwork? Because I'm not sure menu artwork is the most sensible thing to base a move-set on.

It depends on who they are. It doesn't help Joker plays similar to robin with a twist on incineroar's gimmick.

Also, keep in mind that Bamco is helping with developing new characters and they have had a hard-on for stance heavy characters since Tekken 7 with all the newcommers having stances or fireballs.
They like breaking a game's mechanics and adding shit that people deem "out of left field" crazy.
No one ever thought that Tekken needed fireballs, but the characters work well; no one ever thought that Mortal Kombat-like characters, like Negan, would fit in Tekken, but they do.
They like changing stuff a lot in established franchises

The joke is that Arsene is Joker's signature persona but he's weak as shit in the actual game. That doesn't change the fact that Arsene is the persona people think about when they think about Joker. Outside of gameplay, people generally like Arsene's design.

My dude, Arsene is there for what he represents not by how OP he is in the game. That's like asking "why is pokemon trainer is using the 3 starters? why is he not using the OP pokemons?"

>That wouldn't feel like Joker
So you didn't play any Persona game ever then? You CONSTANTLY switch Persona for different attacks, you barely ever attack without them and you never keep your starting Persona. What does SMT have to do with it? The games use the same demons dude. I actually am shocked you can say switching and attacking with different demons "wouldn't feel like Joker" And exclusively using a Persona that no one actually uses in game does? Joker casting spells without a Persona when he can't cast in game without one feels like the game? I honestly doubt you've played a Persona game if you're really gonna stand by this nonsense.

>If the was just Arsene, could be good but then people would complain it's still just one persona.
Correct because Joker's defining skill is the wild card trait, the ability to switch Persona so that should be included in the character. Still it would be more interesting and unique and close to the character than a fucking buff which Persona aren't and never have been.
>Again, it's Joker not "SMT dude"
Again, they use the same demons. Jack Frost has been in more Persona games than Joker has that's for sure. You can say "he's not SMT guy" but you're just outing yourself as having not played these games. The defining trait of the MC in 3-5 is the wild card trait which isn't represented at all. In Persona 1-2 everyone could use multiple Persona.

Mega Man really did change the game in terms of how movesets represent characters huh. I don't remember people caring nearly as much about any character feeling the way they do in their own game before his announcement, barring ganondorf.

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>Correct because Joker's defining skill is the wild card trait
And that doesn't really matter at all. Just look at how P4:A.

Megaman lent himself perfectly for a character to have varied moves.
I'd say the character with the most boring moveset is Sonic. Everything about him is just too samey, can't complain tho, his gimmick is to be fast
Problem comes with characters that are wrongly represented. Snake is all about stealth, but his moveset is mostly explosives.

To be honest, though, recreating Mega Man was great for fanservice but his combat options sucked beyond a couple key attacks simply because of how inefficient he was for Smash Bros.

Another game that dropped the ball on designing the MC? How does that prove anything, I never said Arc Systems did a good job with Yu in P4 Arena. I have literally the same complaint about that game. What's the point of a cross over game if the character aren't anything like they are in the source material? There is no fanservice in that and that is the entire purpose of doing something like including Joker in smash.

Not really comparable at all since people actually use their starter the whole game. Good luck using a Persona the whole game who has shit stats and two weaknesses one of which has insta kill moves. On top of that Pokemon Trainer uses three Pokemon. I would absolutely not be complaining about the work put into joker if he used three different Persona, including Arsene. It would be more like asking "Why does Pokemon Trainer only use Squirtle and as a buff that triggers when you take enough damage?" Which would be a damn good question if it worked that way.

Mega Man is allowed to have such an accurate moveset because he has a ton of moves and his game's genre fits Smash.

This only really applies to how he worked in smash4, he's actually pretty balanced in Ultimate even after having some pretty hefty nerfs thrown at him across two updates.

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thats not even a grappling hook just a rope hes swinging off

>Another game that dropped the ball on designing the MC?
it isn't just Yu that can use multiple persona in that game lmao

>That's like asking "why is pokemon trainer is using the 3 starters? why is he not using the OP pokemons?"
it'd be more like asking why the Pokemon Trainer can use flamethrower on his own without a Pokemon but then a Pokemon comes out and does it when he gets strong enough.

Did I say that he was the only one? Holy shit you are next level at ignoring everything I say and then making up a point to counter that I never even said.

>Joker's defining skill is the Wild Card
No it is not, it's that he's a Phantom Thief. No one whose actually played the game is gonna pretend this is his defining trait, especially considering he shares it with several other characters, one in his own game. He is recognized for his style and Arsene, not his ability to swap Personas.
Are you some fag who thinks, if we could actually see Persona battle in real time, they would be taking turns. Arsene boosting Joker makes sense in a thematic context. Who the fuck cares if he sucks in his home game. The Buster Sword sucks ass in FF7. Squirtle and Ivysaur would get their asses kicked against Lucario or Mewtwo. Smash is a series of liberties.

P4A luckily has more than one persona character so I dont really care as much. This is a game where every character is meant to fully represent their series and joker represents almost nothing persona

sounds like you're pretty upset, user
it's ok to admit you were retarded for having incredibly unrealistic expectations

>because he has a ton of moves
Joker can summon over 100 Persona giving him access to over 100 spell and attacks both physical and magical. How does that not qualify as "having tons of moves". Also it's the exact opposite, Megaman didn't fit Smash at all since all he has are projectiles and Smash characters usually have a max of 3 or 4 projectiles.

>joker represents almost nothing persona
Joker is a big love letter to Persona 5. What are you talking about?

Yea I get incredibly upset when mongoloids don't even make an attempt to have a discussion. Make no mistake I'm not angry about Joker, I'm angry because talking to you is like pulling teeth.

>Megaman didn't fit Smash
>The character from a 2D platformer doesn't fit Smash
What did he mean by this?

>where every character is meant to fully represent their series
Cloud has no fucking magic, doesn't change jobs, no summons, no materia changing. I don't see fags complaining.

>casual fighting game has simple moves
Woah you sure blew my mind OP

>He is recognized for his style and Arsene
Not he's not, not a single person who played the games uses him. How is Arsene recognizable if he shows up in one cutscene and the promotional material? Maybe to smash fags who know Joker from watching video game trailers but not people who actualyl played the game.

well I explained in that very sentence which you cut off so lets try reading the rest of it and responding again.

>How is Arsene recognizable if he shows up in one cutscene and the promotional material?
Exactly because of this. Arsene is Joker's signature persona. Even if nobody used him, he's Joker's most recognizable persona.

>He didn't constantly feed Arsene high level personas and skill cards until he maxed out his stats

>how is arsene recognizable
Uhh i don't know dude

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So you admit the characters design in Smash is based on promotional material, not the game he's from. And you don't understand why people who played and liked the game he's form are upset that rather than use that as a basis they used advertisements?

you did a poor job at it, bro
considering that Mega Man is Smash and how accurate his moveset is, it looks like you were wrong

Mega Man's moves can generally be directly translated from his games, since his main type of game is a 2d sidescroller.
How would you make all of Joker's spells, which are just flashy animations in a 3d RPG, work in a 2d platformer without having them just be standard projectiles?

This

Oh where does this image show up in game?

It's not just promotional material. It's promotional material that the developers made and they put extra effort into. It's his signature persona, exactly what the devs intended.

Joker genuinely sucks. I think people are just too used to sucking Sakurai's cock. Give it like a month or two and you'll see more people realizing that he's a very lazy character.

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You sound upset, user. Which user proved you wrong?

Have you ever actually played Persona? He doesn't just have Spells, literally over 100 skills with mixes of spells, buffs/debuffs and physical attacks. The physical attacks alone provide more than enough moves for neutrals. In P4 arena that actually got that right, the physical attacks that Persona use resemble the skill animations from the game. Almost like they gave a shit about pleasing people who actually played the games.

I am immune to your bait, but because this is a thread on Joker...

What the fuck is up with Arsenes shield damage holy christ 3 Ftilts break shield

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I said he he's not recognizable to anyone who actually played the game because he only shows up in promotional material so you post promotional material. You ignoring what i said is not moving the goal post.

>It's not just promotional material.
Actually that's exactly what it is.

>Actually that's exactly what it is.
You keep ignoring that it's promotional material that the developers pushed. Why do you think Arsene is featured in so much promotional material?

DUDE
HE'S LITERALLY IN THE FUCKING COVER OF THE GAME

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The base Persona the protagonists start out with are the ones that represent them personally. The Wild Card is a gameplay mechanic so that you're not tied to a single Persona all game long. You want to bitch about not having multiple Personas, fine, but bitching about the starting Persona not representing the character is a goddamn terrible argument.

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If Crash gets in, I expect him to borrow some tilts from Mario, Pac-Man, and similar characters. Stop acting autistic if Joker has some same LOOKING moves as others, there's 70+ characters so of course some moves are going to be recycled.

Do you get paid to defend Nintendo or something? You're allowed to dislike their work.

>I said he he's not recognizable to anyone who actually played the game
I played the game and i recognized Arsene immediately.

>Characters share moves
So what.

Did you really think Joker was going to summon a persona for each of his non-special attacks?

For the millionth fucking time, when you are making a fanservice game you want to please fans of the game. People who played Persona 5 did not ever use Arsene. It is not fanservice to base a character on promotional material. You guys are arguing that people should be happy that the version of Joker we got is nothing like how he is in game but that's fine because it's how Atlus portrays him in promo material. Except I and many others who played the game don't give a shit how Atlus portrayed him in promotional material, we care about the character in the game we played. It is undeniably not a good representation of the character as they appear in the game. Why the fuck do you all care how he appears in promo material?

>people who played and liked the game he's form are upset
O I AM LAFFIN
Do you SERIOUSLY thinly are the majority? For one, nice No True Scotsman faggot, secondly, I have only seen 2 autists, both on this site, who have any problem with Joker using just Arsene outside of mild disappointment. By say all the people who actually played his games are dissapointed, you are saying less than 1% of the 2 millions who bought the game played it.
Get the fuck off of your high horse. Just because the moveset wasn't what you wanted doesn't make it bad, or poorly representative of Persona 5

No I knew they would probably take the easy way but I'm shocked at how lazy it is.

>when you are making a fanservice game you want to please fans of the game
exactly
which is why fans of Persona 5 were pleased when they saw Arsene

>I have only seen 2 autists
Well I've seen at least two other people in this thread posting in agreement with me so maybe you shouldn't just assume that everyone who disagrees with you is the same person?

I played the game and i used Arsene, i love his design too, i'm glad he's in smash. Also, if i ask you, what's Joker's, Yu's and Door-kun's persona? What would you answer?

Make your own moveset if you're so goddamn picky

lmao his down air is literally taken from a scene in the game

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>People who played Persona 5 did not ever use Arsene
my level 78 arsene begs to differ

How is it lazy?They went above and beyond with representing Persona, with the stage, victory screens, and Joker himself looks great.

>it’s not what I want so it’s lazy

Cope

>I played the game and i used Arsene
there is no way you used him outside the first dungeon. If you did then you probably played on a super easy difficulty. It's not possible to use a Persona weak to one hit kills later in the game and they start showing up by the 3rd dungeon.

>easy way
Arsene has a unique set of animations that they had to work on. The easy way would have been Arsene only popping out for special attacks.

Actually I complained the exact same about cloud when he also came out user....

Give me another way in which someone can swing a sword behind them that is
1) Human
2) Hasn't been done in smash already

If they did another animation, you'd just say they ripped off [Cloud/Link/Chrom/Ike] instead.

Your argument is literally gameplay mechanics versus promo material when Arsene represents Joker's very inner personality and mentality. There is no better Persona for this than the very one made from the depths of his soul. Plus Persona 5 lets you use Arsene all the way to the end game if you know how to figure your growth, a viable playstyle option.

user, you're just moving goalposts and using circular reasoning to keep looping the argument until people give up. You're terrible at this.

Are all the Smash Bros troll threads going to be as half-assed as yours?

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>They went above and beyond with representing Persona
Aside from actually including multiple Persona from a game called Persona that has over 100 Persona in it. But hey they dropped two MP3 files from P4 in so I guess they put in TONS of work. Also why the fuck would you bring up his victory screen? Literally every character has multiple unique victory animations.

It's impossible to put every Persona in Smash for Joker, so they put in the Persona that fits him the most, the Persona he actually awakened. The Persona that actually represents Joker's true self. Do you really not understand why they chose Arsene? Do you really think people would like it if he summoned Jack Frost instead of Arsene?

So Kirby, Fox, Falco, Dr. Mario, and Luigi are all Echo Fighters of each other.

yes

sakurai is such a fucking hack

Of course i didn't had him equiped 100% of all battles but he was always there when i needed to use some spells because he's Joker's persona and his design is cool. Just because you're bad at the game doesn't mean i am too. Now answer my question.
You complained Cloud coudn't change jobs? But that's retarded user.

Bait or retarded. You decide

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Don't forget Metaknight idiot

>Your argument is literally gameplay mechanics versus promo
Correct and I am implying that fans of videoGAMES care more about GAMEplay than commercials and advertisements, maybe smash fags are different. I also never said Arsene shouldn't be in the game. At one point i said word for word that I wouldn't be complaining at all if he actually used three persona including Arsene. I agree it would be even more stupid if he used one Persona and it wasn't Arsene, I'm not advocating for that.

>It's impossible to put every Persona in Smash for Joker
No but you can put in more than one.

And Pokémon has over 800 Pokémon yet Pokémon trainer only has 3 what’s your point here? They took the most recognizable persona and made it a part of his core move set.

I’m sure they experimented with including multiple personas while developing him but for some reason it didn’t work or flow well with the gameplay they wanted. You’re acting like your some galaxy brained game developer for thinking about it.

Ah, I see your problem, Sakurai didn't include every single Persona character in existence, all the music from all the games, and ten stages from each Persona game, therefore there is absolutely no representation of anything other than 5 at all, full stop, no argument, fargity feep fooz.

>No but you can put in more than one.
And out of the entire roster of possible Persona, what would you slap in there that represents JOKER, not PERSONA

The answer to your question is any Persona because they have the wild card trait.

>completely ignores my argument to nitpick one point.
It's pretty hard to tell you apart from the others considering you all seem to typ in the same manner and know exactly how to follow up on eau ch others arguments.
Saying I think everyone who dissgrees with me is one guy is retarded because I already asserted there was more than one person who disagreed with me, reading comprehension is key, user.
Are you ready to admit Arsene is more recognizable than Yurlungur, or are we gonna be here all day.

No, because there is always room to halfass more.

In a few days he's just gonna post the webm without any caption or opening statement and the thread is gonna run by itself.

Wrong, i'm sorry user, better luck next time.

Holy shit you guys are retarded. Yea I expected them to include every Persona. No you fucking retards I expected a character who one of his main traits is that he can switch Persona would be able to switch Persona. You fags love bringing up Pokemon but like I said, if Joker had three Persona you wouldn't see me complaining. Hell even if his neutrals stayed the same but he could switch between three sets of three specials like Pokemon trainer I'd have been much happier.
Aresne or Stanael, I have never denied this. I'm saying he shouldn't have had just Arsene.

I don't think they could ever implement Satanael, mostly because that's a literal final boss fight spoiler for a plot-focused game compared to Nintendo's own works.

What part is wrong? They have the wild card trait and can someone any Persona.

>Joker victory them is long, but other characters had their own shortened and ruined like Ice Climbers and Yoshi.

>Drones will unironically defend this
The absolute state of this board

I don't expect them too I was just trying to honestly answer the question. It would have made far more sense if he could switch between Arsene, another persona and Jack Frost for example though.

Joker can't romance the female characters, that's a core mechanic of the persona series since the 3 game, honestly nintendo is just too lazy.

Then people would be crying about him being a Pokemon Trainer clone, and anyways why would he sit in the back and order around Persona when it doesn't work that way in Persona itself?

>I expected a character who one of his main traits is that he can switch Persona would be able to switch Persona
then you are retarded because Joker being able to switch personas isn't even unique to him

>People who played Persona 5 did not ever use Arsene.
100% of players who experienced P5's combat used Arsene and heard him say his name
youtu.be/fwttHtH5ldU?t=190

Meanwhile you're fine with it in all other fighting games.

Seems like a lot for just one character. That’s like developing 4 characters in one. Just because they didn’t do that doesn’t make it lazy.

hakurai's a sack

Next reveal when?

Yea because all the characters don't make a big deal when they realize he can switch Persona and they also don't make a big deal when they find out Akechi can too. Oh wait that's the opposite of reality.

Epic strawman argument, but I don't play other fighting games you retarded drone

And then played over 100 hours more of game never seeing him again.

you're right about the switching personas but do his current specials really not fit joker as a character?
I didn't play the game but I watched my roommate complete most of it

Tell us, did you shit your dookie so hard when you saw that Captain Falcon and Samus had the same moves in Smash 64, along with Mario and Kirby and Fox and Luigi and Ligglypuff all had the same Dair?

Damn, nintenbros defending the FUCK out of their daddy in this thread. Please stop.

I didn't play Smash 64, drone.

OP's been debunked and proven to be a fraud several times already. You're too late to the party.
You can't complain about this and defend any other SF character than Ryu and Ken having a DP.

>Then people would be crying about him being a Pokemon Trainer clone,
No one would cry that if his moves didn't resemble Pokemon trainers and there is no reason they should. No one called Pokemon trainer a Sheik and Zelda clone.
>why would he sit in the back and order around Persona when it doesn't work that way in Persona itself?
That's exactly how it works. You literally never attack in tandem with your Persona like he does in Smash. You also never cast spells without a Persona which he does in Smash. What's in Smash already doesn't resemble the game.

Not really and they already had to do a similar amount of work since Joker already has two version of every special.

>you're right about the switching personas but do his current specials really not fit joker as a character?
He never uses a grappling hook outside of a menu animation and he can't cast spells without a Persona which he does in the game. It is not a very faithful representation of the character.

So why are you here? Just to fart and hoot and fling your dookie all over the place because board culture?

>That's exactly how it works. You literally never attack in tandem with your Persona like he does in Smash. You also never cast spells without a Persona which he does in Smash. What's in Smash already doesn't resemble the game.
PLAY THE FUCKING FIGHTING GAMES YOU RETARD, HOLY SHIT

Then shut the fuck up, newfag, you have nothing to say.

Yeah and some of Shulk's Monado arts are attacks and not buffs, liberties are taken to make the character actually work in the context of the game and Joker's are incredibly minor to anyone that's not an autist.

I prefer Joker and Arsene working like this. Get some Jojo representation in Smash.

But they did use him, which completely defeats your argument as you said here about
>People who played Persona 5 did not ever use Arsene
He was used in game and wasn't just promo material. Even you used him. Or are we back to what this other user posted here

You simply do not understand, all the characters must be EXACTLY like they are in their base game sin every single way imaginable.

Something is telling me that he doesn't even play Ultimate.

Do you think Megaman is a good representation of his game? How about Star Fox characters, Castlevania characters and FE characters?

>Use vine whip
>Enemy dodges it even though it has 100% accuracy

FUCK YOU HACKURAI

hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally. I would think you were smart enough to realize that was an exaggeration appearently not, my mistake.

Would rather have a Devil Summoner character.
Too bad that's neverever

Not an argument

Raidou would have been mad hype, I am happy to take a character that uses a mix of firearms and melee weapons like true SMT chads do though

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>Do you think Megaman is a good representation of his game?
Yes, he's an amazing example of referencing all the different things he can do across his games.
>Star Fox characters,
About as good as a character who never leaves a vehicle can be, this is not even a remotely valid comparison. Joker fights in his game in a way that is not included in his smash character, Fox does not unless you count Starfox adventure which no one should.

>Castlevania
Why would this be upsetting? Because Richter and Simon share some moves that Simon didn't have in his original game? Wasn't it like 1 move? If Joker had three persona you wouldn't hear me complaining about eh grappling hook. Simon has every major tool he uses in his game so there is nothing to complain about.

>FE characters?
I've never played Fire Emblem so I can't comment.

Yeah, guns in megaten are fun, so I'm happy that Joker at least uses that.
Raidou 3 when

The fuck you on about? When does that happen user? In a cutscene?

>Joker fights in his game in a way that is not included in his smash character
barely
his games are still turned based rpgs

youtu.be/kMtSqBpUrn8

>canonically very airborne in all of your games, except maybe Prime (but even in that you fly a lot)
>your reveal trailer has you soaring around in the air and assassinating characters like Batman
>in-game you can flap 2 times before falling to your death

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kek

>Yes, he's an amazing example of referencing all the different things he can do across his games.
But he can't use the weapons without changing color yet he does it on smash, that doesn't bothers you? Why?
>About as good as a character who never leaves a vehicle can be
How can you be so sure? We've seen Fox in adventure but how do we know Falco and Wolf can actually fight? As far as we know they only know how to pilot aircrafts. Why are you ok with this?
>Why would this be upsetting?
They can only have one sub weapon at a time and they need hearts for it, that's completely removed from smash. That's not a problem for you? Why?

I've never played Xenoblade so that comparison is lost on me. I can say though that I understand taking liberties. I just disagree the liberties they took with Joker were minor, his Persona doesn't function at all how they do in game, h can cast magic without a Persona, he uses a grappling hook that the never really uses, he can't switch Persona. It is not one or two liberties.

>Joker instead of thunderchad
fuck

>maybe smash fags are different
If you don't even play smash what do you care? lmao

Everyone in P4AU can attack in tandem with their Persona. Multiple characters in P4AU use magic without directly summoning a Persona, such as Yu electrifying his sword.

So not a video of Joker attacking in Tandem with his Persona in Persona 5. How exactly is this proof I did not play Persona 5?

Arsene

When's P5A anyway

The problem with Jokers moveset is that it doesn't take advantage of the source material. You have personas to work with, and you use just one, and all it is is just a powered up form of the character.

The best idea would be that during the persona awakening thing, he has other attacks done by other persona than just Arsene

they're in the same universe. if yu can do it with his persona, why cant joker?

The point is that it's still fucking possible in Persona you dumb nigger. Are you really this dense? You can't do it in P5 because P5A doesn't exist yet, but the concepts shown in Smash are proven to be possible in the series's canon when turn-based combat isn't taking precedence.

Castlevania characters are really faithful to the games. One could nitpick and go HUUR HURR BUT SIMON NEVER HAD METROIDVANIA MOVES! But these faggots are idiots. Everything about them to tge most subtle detail in animation is faithful to their original. At certain percentages, Simon and Richter fly back with the same damage animation as in their games when hit with minor attacks, the ftilt whip animation is almost trame by frame as fast as in their games. Animation cycles, everything. It almost made me cry how much love was put into them.

As for Starfox and FE, it's pretty much like Captain Falcon. Since you never control the characters in actual 2D action settings, everything has to be made from scratch, but Roy's final smash is bit for bit his critical animation with the sword of seals in his own game which, again, gave me a boner.

>But he can't use the weapons without changing color yet he does it on smash, that doesn't bothers you? Why?
Because it's one small concession made so that he can reference the entirety of his catalog of games. If the concessions in Jokers design were to reference more Persona or SMT games I wouldn't complain but using a grappling hook he never uses is not that.
>Why are you ok with this?
Because their inclusion alone is a miracle since they have nothing to base a moveset on. Again not even remotely close to a valid comparison.
>They can only have one sub weapon at a time and they need hearts for it, that's completely removed from smash. That's not a problem for you? Why?
Again, if the concessions made were to reference more tools Joker has in his game I wouldn't care, that's not why the concessions in his design were made. Your comparisons just do a good job of showing what I wish Joker was, representation of more than just the characters appearance in promotional material.
Everyone plays smash buddy. Not everyone autistically defends smash on a taiwanese basket weaving board. I have never gotten so many response to my posts in my decade of using this site. that's why I made that comment, I'm a little surprised how many people get butthurt when I say I'm disappointed by Jokers design in smash and the only conclusion I can come to is Nintendo fanboys are autistic. The only time I have gotten a comparable amount of responses is when I criticized BotW. see a pattern there because I do.

You guys realize you're talking about a spin off not made by Atlus correct? A game made by the same people that wanted to make Nanako a playable character?

>You guys realize you're talking about a spin off
Who's gonna tell him?

>You guys realize you're talking about a spin off not made by Atlus correct?
Isn't it canon still and it's not like atlus wouldn't be watching development anyway

Charizard knows that feel, bro.

Yes user the story is canon however as I said, Arc Systems wanted to make Nanako a playable character. That shows the liberties they were willing to take. Besides, I wish Arsene was like the Persona in that game, their animation are actually based on the animations for things like Cleave. That game with all the liberties it takes offers more fanservice than Joker in Smash does.

Since we are all talking about Joker, look at what his Eiha do to people. It make them do an anime face where someone took heavy damage. Also, Peach look very exploitable.

youtube.com/watch?v=a7vlK0_vIzk

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>Yes user the story is canon however as I said
That's not what i mean user, i'm sorry i have to be the one to tell you this but Smash is a spin off game not made by Atlus.

Joker is a soulless shill character for Persona on the Switch. Wait for the next character, a soulful pick. Joker isn't iconic, he doesn't have iconic motions, movements, attacks etc so generic movements are all that can be mustered up.

>that 1000 yard stare on Yoshi

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>Samus
God fucking dammit.

Who wouldn't get mad about being hit by death magic
Surprised they bothered bringing eiha and Kouha back instead of just making mudo and hama deal damage with a chance of insta kill in P5

>mewtwo

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Are you capable of following a conversation for more than one post. I said Joker never attack in tandem with his Persona in P5, you post a video of P4:A which is a retarded thing to do considering that's not the game I was talking about. Then you try to justify "Well if other similar characters can do it in this game so could he" You are missing the entire fucking point mate. Joker should not resemble Yu from P4:A, he should resemble Joker from Persona 5, ya know, the game he is from. My point in pointing out that is was a spin off was to point out that it's NOT where the characterization of any of the characters comes from. Yes there is a shitty canon VN but no one became a fan of the characters from that shitty VN. People became a fan of Joker form HIS game Persona 5, so referencing that game is what is going to make people who like that game happy, not referencing an unrelated fighting game made by a different studio.

holy shit little mac calm down

they are trying to avoid any reference that could also reference SMT since the SMTV protag is going to be the final DLC character

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I got the feeling that the Persona 5 dev team either didn't like or didn't care about the changes made in SMTIV cause they brought over almost none of them, even the good ones like that.

>Persona on the Switch
Boy can't wait for that concert to be nothing of worth

Keep sucking nintendo's farts and defending the taste
based and redpilled

I like the P4G fusion system of only getting to pick 3 of the transfer abilities better than getting to pick everything like in SMT4 and DeSu

To be fair that change came in IVA, but DDS had percentage damage.
Too bad they never bothered getting the fusion stuff from IV/IVA though, The changes in general for that entry makes fusion fun and friendly

No Persona game is. Persona is shovelware trash.

Still both are better than RNG and exiting/entering a menu over and over. I can't believe they went back to that shit after Golden. >Too bad they never bothered getting the fusion stuff from IV/IVA though, The changes in general for that entry makes fusion fun and friendly
Like the other user mentioned, they had a similar skill selection thing in Golden that they scrapped. I have no idea why since anyone who plays these games on harder difficulties just ends up exiting and entering menus till they get what they want anyway.

>Blade character slashes in different directions and kicks
>Animation aren't even the same
I'll give you falco's smash and Belmont slide, but man most fighters must suck since most characters punch or kick

wouldn't P5 for the Switch be announced the day after the concert? the 25th is when we get more info on P5:S

>YOU CAN'T ATTACK IN TANDEM WITH PERSONAS OR USE MAGIC WITHOUT THEM
>yes you can, here's explicitly canon proof you can do that in the same universe P5 takes place in
>N-NO THAT DOESN'T COUNT
retard

Honestly the real question is how similar the hit boxes are and if any of Joker's were genuinely reused.

>>YOU CAN'T ATTACK IN TANDEM WITH PERSONAS OR USE MAGIC WITHOUT THEM
I didn't say you can't, I said you never do in Persona 5 which is factually accurate. As I already said, Joker should not resemble Yu from P4:A, he should resemble Joker from Persona 5.

What about affinities or being able to fuse straight out of the compendium for special fusions rather than have them in your current stock.
that last option should be in any future megaten game because it's just great.
Hell, the fusion lite app would be nice as a thing since P4Animation did mid fight fusions too, would be a neat reference.
Bet if royal's a rerelease, they'll reintroduce golden's thing or something similar to it as an added feature

Every single character in smash bros is inaccurate you autist.

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>hmm, this canon game has a bunch of characters from the persona universe fighting tandem with their personas... Joker can't do that

>I didn't say you can't

They just chose the most-popular character from the series to "rep" it like Cloud did for FF. Persona 5 is the only SMT game to sell the numbers it did, so it's only natural SEGA and Nintendo would want Joker.

i can forgive all of it bar that stupid up-air spinning kick

2 quick knife stabs would've been fine

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Everything I say in that post is in reference to what you can and can't do in Persona 5 and it is accurate. joker cannot do any of those things in Persona 5.
I didn't say you can't, I said you never do in Persona 5 which is factually accurate. As I already said, Joker should not resemble Yu from P4:A, he should resemble Joker from Persona 5.

Joker is fucking lazy but all the things he took from other characters are things i enjoy, so i dont care
I hope the other characters are more original though

But not every character is a poor representation of their series. Besides if you asked me how I felt about Ness I'd tell you I think it's stupid that he has PK Fire and Thunder. Why do you assume I like the design of every base roster character?

You also forgot Sheik's u-air.

Joker does not do these things in P5 because of turn-based combat taking precedence, just like how you can't do them in P4. Turn-based combat is just a feature of the series and has no bearing on canon, you moron. Are you really trying to imply that everyone in P5 canonically stands around waiting for their fucking turn?

The biggest offender is Bowser. How is he still just a generic dinosaur monster after 5 fucking games.

>thinking hyperbole is a valid argument

It's jarring going from a Mario game to Smash and hearing the sounds Bowser makes

This is actually something that sucks. DK and Bowser still making generic animal noises is so fucking retarded.

But you know what, Atleast hes more balanced then Bayonetta was.

>He never uses a grappling hook outside of a menu animation
You didn't play the game, user. He uses it to get around in certain areas of some palaces, in particular Sae's.

Shut the fuck up and accept the fact that Jack Frost will never be in Smash Ultimate nor Erdrick or Steve now, fucking leak-fag.
Now get out before we slap you with Satannael's dick

SMTV protag still has a chance

It just goes to show that Sakurai needs to step down. He's outright said in interviews that he likes to keep things the same and that's why Bowser has been a dinosaur monster every game. Back when Melee released Bowser didn't really have the personality he does now and was just a boss in the way.

It's the same reason Ganondorf is still a clone, Sonic still has the same boring moveset that he was cursed with due to being rushed for Brawl, and why the gameplay will forever be hampered due to how much he hates competitive Smash. Smash's director seat NEEDS new blood, but Nintendo are too far ingrained into that idea that Smash couldn't work without Sakurai. They're deathly afraid of what would happen without him there.

Honestly, looking at other Smash clones, it's hard to argue with that though. Someone needs to actually step up and put out a good Smash clone for Nintendo to start having second thoughts about letting Sakurai run free again.

I'd settle for Flynn or Nanashi, even through anime swordsman meme will still ahppen

Rivals and Slap are great though, the biggest issues with them is that nobody will play them

>Sonic still has the same boring moveset that he was cursed with due to being rushed for Brawl
Actually, the explanation for Sonic is even worse. The games Sakurai played for reference while making Sonic's moveset were Sonic 06 and Sonic The Fighters.
That being said, I wouldn't mind one bit if the next Smash game didn't add any new characters and instead just gave every character another pass on both aesthetics and moveset.

>he never went through the effort of downfusing to keep his brosona with him throughout the whole game
sad!

You're right, but they won't hit a mass market with those graphics/atmosphere. Slap City is straight up a meme game that surprisingly plays great, and Rivals of Aether doesn't quite fully convey the 'oomph' of Smash games, being in 2D. There needs to be a game that hits all those notes, which as I've said isn't an easy feat. It's no wonder Nintendo goes with the safe but boring choice of Sakurai every time.

Ahahahaha fucking no.
We never had 2 new DLC characters that came from the same franchise (yes, Persona is a spinoff from SMT, but still).

And before you say anything about Roy/Corrin, Roy was completely stated as a "returning" character, so no, my argument is still valid.
Have you ever made a fighting game, user?
Or a crossover game?
You think shit is that easy?

I played on the downloadable difficulty that was the hardest. There is no way in hell I was using a Persona weak to one hit KO skills.

how to spot the stinky meleefag

Sakurai is one of the best people still in the industry, period. The only people who say otherwise are retarded Melee fans who, to this day, can't get over not being coddled and catered to. Your kind tried making your own games and all of them fucking suck (except for Slap City that shit is tight). If you knew what you were talking about, this wouldn't be the case and you'd be playing your proper Melee successor right now.

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>more "rules" about who can and can't get in
Sure sign of a total idiot.

Sakurai IS good. Kid Icarus Uprising is legit one of my favorite games of all time.
That said, he simply has too many things in Smash he won't lift his foot over. It's a shame, but Smash needs someone who will look over the entire package and say "Alright, let's freshen things up" instead of saying "Well that's how it's always been so let's not change it" or "I don't like players playing for money, so let's dumb down the gameplay a bit to lower the skill ceiling" (He LITERALLY admitted to doing both things, happily in fact).

I would rather all of the DLC characters be under powered mid tiers than broken garbage that ruins the entire meta like tr4sh had. Competitive faggots don't know what's best for them

young link had the best face

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It's not a "rule" exactly, but just use your brains. Would Atlus/Sega get more than enough priviledges for pushing a SMT rep after Joker? Wouldn't it be more likely this could happen AFTER SMTV is released in the first place in either Japan/America, like with Roy/Corrin? Also there's quite a ton of characters Sega would likely also go for, and you can easily see them any time there's DLC talks.

Of course there's some stuff that can be criticized regarding Smash 4 and Ultimate (well, Ult not really except for some autistic regard) but I'll say the big issue is not "how to reinvent Smash" but rather "how to reinvent Smash without losing the fun, originality, S O U L and competivity it got", because it's not THAT simple to find the correct balance

Except it IS that simple. Hell one of the most glaring omissions is the removal of momentum-based movement past Melee. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to remove momentum based movement in a PLATFORMER fighter? Sakurai apparently, all to dumb down the game's mechanics.
There's many things like that, some major others minor, that could easily be fixed if someone new were to replace Sakurai.

Oh, it's one of you memelee-fans.
Have you taken a shower yet?

Counter-point: no it doesn't. Ultimate is the best game in the series so far and it absolutely doesn't need big shake ups. Gameplay was not dumbed down, he never admitted to doing that, what he did was strip out and lessen the exploits and some other esoteric mechanics that didn't really serve to improve the gameplay, only to widen the gap between the extremely dedicated player and the reasonably dedicated player. You have your own opinions on what makes the games good and they all boil down to "Melee was the good game and the rest suck". Ultimate is still fantastic and proof that not only are you wrong but that Sakurai is still a perfect fit for the job.