What the hell happened to maze-like levels, fast movement, and key-hunting in games? I'm not a nostalgic boomer (I first played Doom like 2 years ago), but it felt like a MASSIVE breath of fresh air after other modern single player shooters.
The reason I hated shooters was because it was just clicking on the heads, but with Doom, Shadow Warrior, Blood, you have to keep thinking about your location a lot more, hunting around for secrets, getting stuck, etc.
Why did that go away? Why has nobody made a modern game with modern graphics with the speed and fun of the doomlikes? I'm tired of mediocre throwback indies for nostalgiafags, I want a AAA hipfire maze-shooter (DOOM 2016 was just arenas).
I have some hope for Dusk but it feels like an arena as well sadly
Dominic Gomez
OLD GAME GOOD NEW GAME BAD >well, have you tried any of the new gam- NO I ALREADY KNOW THEY'RE SHIT FAGGOT ZOOMER LOL
Anthony Perez
because lootboxes and micro transactions faggot
Blake Mitchell
What? I have tried the new games, but they are lacking keyfinding and mazes and speed.
Name one AAA title like that in the past 5 years. Dusk was super disappointing. Why not have those in there too? You could make doomguy sexy or something and you can gatcha crates.
Ian Garcia
>Why has nobody made a modern game with modern graphics with the speed and fun of the doomlikes? Because of controllers. Running and gunning is fucking impossible without mouse, and you MUST sell AAA games on consoles. Even shit like Diablo 3 gets pushed there because PC players money is not enough.
Hudson Thomas
Why was it enough in the past but not now despite the PC market having grown a ton?
Bentley Walker
>Why was it enough in the past but not now despite the PC market having grown a ton? What are you talking about? Even Doom 2 was released on like 6 different consoles.
Asher Reyes
How come it worked then?
Sebastian Collins
Project Warlock is decent in the Key Hunting Maze Like FPS department. Gunplay feels good, too. But it's way too fucking easy in normal (didn't try hard yet, I picked normal because someone did told me it was reminding him of Blood so I though it would be tough as nail) and level design is not all that great. Many level feels too constricted, to narrow. It' s maze-ish but sometime lack the big open room of doom with multiple branching
Hudson Thomas
> Even shit like Diablo 3 gets pushed there because PC players money is not enough. That's just greed. Which is understandable for a company that want to make money, don't get me wrong but it's not like PC money was "not enough" and that they "needed" to go on console to survive. Diablo 3 sold more than 10 fucking millions in mere weeks on PC, they were swimming in fat bucks already
Christopher Carter
Half life
Matthew Lewis
user... half life is more than 5 years old.
Nathan Robinson
>half life >maze-like levels
Charles Jones
>How come it worked then? What worked, aiming? Doom 2 has insane amount of autoaim and no vertical aiming.
Austin Baker
Boomer here, because they just aren't as fun to play through. Try playing Hexen, Heretic or Quake 2 to get an idea of just how tedious it is to run around massive areas trying to find a keycard or then find a door you overlooked 2 miles back.
>Running and gunning is fucking impossible without mouse You do realize that Doom and Quake 1 were designed to be played with keyboards only. Let that sink in for a second, because trying to do that is a lot more like aiming with a potato than a controller.
Julian Bell
>Because of controllers. Running and gunning is fucking impossible without mouse Sure, keep telling yourself that. I’ve played on PC my whole life and bought my first controller only a few years ago, and it’s not even nearly as bad for shooters as people make it seem. If you don’t want to learn anything new, then don’t, you don’t have to, use your keyboard and mouse, but stop telling everyone that it’s (((literally impossible))) to aim with a stick.
Levi Phillips
Quake 1 was not designed to be anything, they wanted to make an RPG, but quickly retooled it into a drab Doom with real 3D. It's pure luck that gameplay turned out to attract tourneyfags. Doom 2 however was made to work with keyboard and controllers from ground up.
Mason Williams
Dusk
Matthew Hall
The entire game is one level
Two I guess, counting getting knocked out as a level change
Aw fuck, zen too
Christopher Anderson
No you dips, he's saying that Half Life is the reason we don't have that kind of design anymore, which is true. HL set a new standard of FPS being cinematic setpiece-driven A-to-B affairs in realistically designed environments, all of which is fundamentally incompatible with navigating abstract mazes and other more traditionally "game-like" design.
Gavin Lee
It's sad that shooters are not getting sprawling level design at a time when stealth games are finally getting back into it
>You do realize that Doom and Quake 1 were designed to be played with keyboards only. Let that sink in for a second, because trying to do that is a lot more like aiming with a potato than a controller.
>NO I ALREADY KNOW THEY'RE SHIT FAGGOT ZOOMER LOL Based boomers.
Easton Martinez
>maze like levels >good
wanting complex levels is one thing, wanting tedious mazes is another.
Angel Robinson
Ion Maiden
Levi Gutierrez
Mazes fucking sucked, I go back to so many old games and they feel so cheap now. Especially menus. I have no idea how we used to think the JPEG gradient menus we used to put up with were okay.
Ryan Brooks
most old fps levels are actually complex in a fun way, though if we're talking tedious I'd point to something like Hexen
Jack Garcia
imaging making a thread like this in 2019 to desperately build up cred on an anonymous board. this thread is gay and the discussion is decades old faggot shit. also op is a faggot
Angel Sullivan
That only applies to FPS babbies. Many other genres have not suffered (or at least, suffered nowhere near as badly) in regressive game design. Racing games are a good example.
>literal who twitter screencap as argument every fucking time
Jordan Clark
>getting stuck This is not a positive. Just Saiyan.
Adam Nguyen
>Literally a straight line with 20degree bends
Cringe and yikes
Brayden White
That game was so boring.
Benjamin Walker
>implying shit like Driveclub or NuNFS can hold a candle against NFS HP
Daniel Harris
Thank god FPSes actually grew up and realized shit like "maze-like" levels was garbage and stopped that shit. Rest in piss, quakefags and doomfags. Your games are not good just because they're old.
Aaron Rodriguez
Wellp Quake Champs is still the same quake I guess...
Carter Mitchell
i agree OP. you should play exhumed/powerslave (ps1 or saturn) if you haven't. the games were simpler so they had to rely on their mechanics/level design more and it was just more fun
Isaac Watson
good goy
Landon Gray
this! so much this! narrative driven linear experiences have so much more value
Adrian Ross
I honestly don't know what's bait anymore and what's just representative of nu Yea Forums. Romero worked on Doom.
Mazes are linear, you literally have to follow a linear path through, you just don't know what the path is. The best level design for FPS games is mostly straight with hidden shit that you can carry on to the next levels to encourage you to hunt around.
Jackson Reed
marathon>>>>faggy doom
Anthony King
What game is this
William Miller
Naturally a 20 second clip is all there is to see of a track.
By HP I assume you mean the original and not criterion's 2010.
there's been tons and quakers refuse to play them. warsow, reflex, nexuiz/xonotic, and so on. or they have jobs and shit. also no one will play diabotical
fuck esreality shitheads as well, they love shitting on every game that isn't quake 3 and css.
What was the Duke3D/Blood tribute that was made recently by one slav in his basement?
Christopher Nelson
>The best level design for FPS games is mostly straight with hidden shit that you can carry on to the next levels to encourage you to hunt around. so quake then
Leo Scott
>What was the Duke3D/Blood tribute that was made recently by one slav in his basement? Disregard me, it's Dusk. Literally being discussed in this thread.
Ian Brooks
>Because all nu-shooters care about is multiplayer and multiplayer in modern shooters is fucking terrible wjhen compared to something like Quake 3, even Quake Champions which was super disappointing and possibly the most atrocious Quake game possible is still more fun than most zoomer shit
Carter Johnson
>1998 Plus the game engine is limited to 64fps which is a shame.
Daniel Price
Halo wasn't that bad because of enemy squads and spacious maps. The real problem is how developers put basic stuff without proper thought and then try to compensate with story or cutscenes. Labyrinths-like games can be as tedious with worse doom-clone examples.
Sebastian Collins
you really fucked yourself by choosing the words "maze-like" op
Mason Green
One wonders why they don't just sell KB+M on consoles. They support it. Hell they've supported it as far back as the Dreamcast and probably even before that. I mean, every PC gamer has their arcade stick and gamepad, so the console guys can handle their KB + M.
Kayden Moore
Diablo 3 is a console game that was mistakenly sold on the wrong platform first. It's like TES IV Oblivion or Deus Ex: HR.
Connor Richardson
Well yeah. Imagine if people could play a game where you move fast, are free to roam an open map and attack people from any angle, play at tickrates of 60 or 66 or 83 or 120 or 133 or 166, have gameplay without any stuns or shields or walls, and are expected to both dodge incoming projectiles AND lead their targets in order to fire their own slow moving projectiles? It'd be ... why, it'd be a MERITOCRACY. We can't have that.
Nathaniel Miller
>Labyrinths-like games can be as tedious with worse doom-clone examples. The irony of this when you consider the literal definition of "labyrinth" is that linear levels are labyrinths. Non-linear ones by definition aren't. A maze is a path from A to B with many intersections to false paths and dead-ends. A labyrinth is a path from A to B with no intersections whatsoever, just a really convoluted and twisting single path.
Keyhunting in doom is a pain in the ass desu, I'd rather the levels be more straightforward. Open-ended levels are cool in games like Deus Ex because you have different methods of approach but everything you do in Doom is the same.
Lucas Cox
stop calling them maze like thats why people thought they are outdated and doom had actual recognizable zones
