Why can't fighting games retain a playerbase?

memorizing frame windows is boring af, the genre sucks

t.brainlet

It's not like you have to sit down and read spreadsheets until it sticks, you just remember the important stuff as you play. Most of the time it's not even the numbers, it's not like "that move is -6 on block" it's "that move is unsafe", or "it's my turn" or something. Unless you play kekken then lmao.

cause they're not worth learning

Games with biggest playerbases are easy to pick up and hard to master. Fighting games are not easy to pick up, you'll just get matched with people who play fighting games their whole life and get wrecked without being able to do anything.

They get boring too fast.

Nah casual games are easy to pick up and thats it. Theres no mastering casual shit made for brainlets. When these people try to play a fighting game and don't win instantly they cry and shit themselves and go back to play non fighting games like smash

>battle royals
>hard to master
lmaooo

I wish Aris shilled my favorite fighting game

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Is that supposed to be impressive? There are probably more people playing Skyrim

Aris hates tekken though

Because they have shitty single player modes and shitty online multiplayer, and anyone you know irl is probably too casual to learn.

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>Skyrim
>Fighting game

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not really true, i picked up sfv learned one ryu combo and just spammed it over and over, was winning 40%

See me in SFV right now.

Fighting games are really easy to pick up now, they've been getting dumbed down for over a decade at this point. The difference between fighting games and something like a BR is in a fighting game you don't have as many scapegoats that you can place your failure on, so if you're not the type who gets enjoyment from self-improvement then the dissonance kicks in and you look for something else to distract yourself with.
This is magnified by the fact that most play is online now, so bad players are not in insulated bubbles where they can feel better about themselves. They get exposed to people who actually care about getting better at the things they spend time on plus they get to see things like tournament streams which really demonstrate how far they are from actually being good.

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Yeah, 40% against other shitters.

you don't need to know frame numbers at all.
You will naturally learn through regular play when you're in neutral, when you can punish things and when you need to be defensive.

Because people can't handle losing without a team to blame.

>had a perfect single player formula with chronicle of the sword
>perfect to allow autists to play their OC
>feeling of preogression with low tier styles that evolve into full styles
>said styles had their own weapons and moveset for better customization
>lots of unlockables, always get a sweet pop-up every now and then for content
>they remove most of the stuff and lock highschool uniforms behind dlcs
maybe once they understand they're supposed to not force fuck the player from behind they'll have players and sales

>Fighting games are really easy to pick up now
It seems that way when we've been playing them for years but it's still not really the case. DP motions still make people froth at the mouth and autocombos didn't save the games they were in. If DBZ couldn't make it big then nothing can make fighting games a big deal.

>what is Super Smash Bros Melee for the Nintendo Gamecube

he said fighting game

he hates playing it online

You know the brawl in Windhelm where you have to beat the drunkyard ass? That part is more fighting game than Smash

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fighting games thread user, try and keep up.

yeah sure because of "stream sniping", lmao

because pc players cheat

>had friend that practiced fighting games
>by practice i mean he would learn one combo and that's it
>absolutely no neutral game or concept of doing anything besides that one combo and blocking
>Consistently beat him by just blocking his combo and hitting him with some scuffed ass improvised combo and better movement

It's not really your friend's fault, it's just a big misconception about what's important in fighting games.

>He doesn't remember Aris spending literally hours fighting yung p who "just so happened" to always been playing at the same time as Aris and they always "just so happened" get matched up
I stopped watching his streams cause I got tired of him fighting the same lucky chole player every time, good on him for trying to circumvent that stuff

I think what you're saying kind of proves my point, user. It doesn't get played because people are not interested in games where the focus is self improvement anymore. All the common scapegoats that people bring up as the reasons why they don't play FGs are not present in DBFZ. What people want now are games where the game presents itself in a way where the player feels as though they're improving (extrinsic motivation) and not games where they actually get better (intrinsic motivation).
I feel as though it's largely a generational shift. It's anecdotal, but in my friend group all the players who enjoy fighting games are millennial ages and the people who don't enjoy them are Gen-Z ages.

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>he doesn't remember
Why the fuck would I watch aris?

people are dumb nothing new here

Because fighting games are inherently a genre for autists. You know all the fundamentals from playing them for years and these are the guys that stick with the genre. Casuals refuse to learn anything except for combos and they rage-quit within a week.

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i wish they were more popular
to me the reason why i dont play fightan games is that i dont have any way to play with people locally and i live so fucking far from anyone else the best ping i can get is 100 and u cant improve with an internet speed like that in a fighting game

>All the common scapegoats that people bring up as the reasons why they don't play FGs are not present in DBFZ.
>projectile "spam"
>long blockstrings
>long combos (without autocombos)
I don't like twitter but following the salt from xenoverse players after launch was hilarious. I'm not really disagreeing with you but it's still much harder to become competent at even the most dumbed down fighting game than any other genre normies play.

Ajin fighting game when? I wanna main Sato.

A fighting game with poor netcode and/or no crossplay is just dead on arrival.

Because playing fighting games online is boring as shit and fucking sucks

New players usually get their shit kicked in by experienced poopsockers who play the game obsessively, and ultimately just give up playing.

>go online
>get absolutely bodied
>never play it again
Fighting games are terrible at retaining casuals which in turn means the majority of the player base leaves quickly.

>High skill floor
>Usually not much to do beyond multiplayer
>Half the roster is paid DLC, making the games $100+ most of the time

These are the big three, in my opinion. SC6 feels fucking anemic compared to SC2 and 3, fewer characters, fewer stages, nothing to unlock ([paid DLC instead) and he character creator has a laughable amount of clothes/equipment.

Normies and casuals aren't going to pick up the games because they get bodied online and beyond the arcade single-player modes there's not much else to do with the game beyond playing locally with friends. Combined with the high price tag if they actually want the whole game, its just not a very attractive genre to them.

I skipped SC6 for all of the above. Less content than SC3, everything is paid DLC, and it has Denuvo. Easy decision to just pirate.

If they're so easy to master then why aren't you getting easy money by winning BR games competitions?

Because then I'd have to play a battle royal game? Lmao

>fighting game with poor netcode and/or no crossplay
Surely there's potential to make money by making a fighting game that offers these things, why does it keep not happening so often? My sad burger internet cant take it

The point is to allow even new people to have some sense of achievement while having a learning curve that makes people keep playing the game in order to get better. Even a complete retard can get a kill or two in a BR game and have some sense of achievement. In fighting games he wouldn't be able to do shit, get disinterested and leave. You can act etilist all you want, it'll just make the playerbase lower and lower. Same with arena shooters.

But it's free money. The games are so easy you'll master them all in one day and show everyone how easy to master and skilless BR games are.

Used to be you'd play locally and git gud playing with friends, now its all online and this shit happens every time.

Everyone already knows that though, why should I bother?

Most games don't retain players but there is usually an initial level of interest and a rate of decline. For the particular game it's possible they're not on Steam.

Why would I play a game I don't like?

The only way to hold both a casual and hardcore fan base is to cater to both, which is pretty much fucking impossible because leaning to one side basically means you lose the other.

The only way to handle this is to have a shit load of content which most fighting games can't with the budget they get.

Alternatively, just cater to people who play fighting games.

This. Most people nowadays don't want to be challenged in any way possible. Casual players will put the minimum effort possible into learning the game, get bodied online a few times, and that's that, return the disc to gamestop.

The problem is fighting games require you to put an enormous amount of effort to achieve anything at all and every match is like a newbie basketball player playing against Lebron. No one wants to bother with that shit.

Not all fighting games. Especially recently released ones, they all come with simple easy tutorials to follow in order for newcomers to get the basics down.

>No one wants to bother with that shit.

Most people playing fighting games are doing so because of the challenge and level of commitment involved. They make the time for that shit.

Those tutorials won't mean shit when you get matched against someone who's thousand times better than you and plays fighting games his whole life and it happens all the time. Other gsmes you'll play placements and afterwards you play against people more or less your level. Matchmaking in fighting games on the other hand is extremely unbalanced.

>require you to put an enormous amount of effort to achieve anything at all

sit in practice mode for 50 hours studying the cast and play for 100 hours online

now youre already able to play your one game to decent degree even if its your first fighting game ever. Add 10 hours of studying outside of the game to that and it will speed up learning the actual game once you absorb concepts and terminology form elsewhere, there are even entire youtube series made for it. Injustice 2 was the first fighting game I ever actually played and put more than a few hours into and within 700 hours of total playtime (out of which the majority is sitting offline in afk, there are maybe 300 hours of online play there) I was able to get good enough where my main training partner was from the ranked top 100 and I never sandbagged to any pro I randomly came across even 2/3rds into that timespan

The main thing that anyone learning should do isnt to mindlessly play online against randoms forever, they should come across a player that they actually become partners with and play hours long sets. You find more people naturally from ranked and other modes and I always prefer adding them for private sets because I loathe random ranked matches

youtube.com/watch?v=uMAdNdtdqk4&list=PLplGIzXSUQ62_0eMAeKCaWfLj9J93_AyV

one series off the top of my head

Yeah, and they number a few thousands while top played games number hundreds of thousands if not millions. The anount of people willing to bother with that shit is miniscule.

>The only way to handle this is to have a shit load of content which most fighting games can't with the budget they get.
They have more than enough of a budget to not charge $60+ for the rest of the game.

Its pure publisher greed, nothing more. All the shit they charge for now used to just be in the games.

>spend 150 hours to be able to win one match
Yeah, how about no.

Imagine being such a zoomer you can't enjoy yourself unless you win.

Youre pretty fucking retarded if you didnt win a single match against players ranging from retarded 7 year old buttonmashers to actual pro players that you most likely have never even accidentally ran across in any game

Maybe dont buy games 2 hours into their lifecycle to save a penny on a muh complete edition so you can actually learn the game alongside others and fight against people who havent been practicing for 2 years

Also feel free to explain how my win record in the game is overwhelmingly positive

Let's settle this.
2D or 3D?

Feel free to explain why almost everyone drops every fighting game within a week of release if it's so easy to win and learn.

Yeah, a couple hundred people is perfectly fine for a fighting game because it's 1 on 1. More people would be better, obviously, but you'll still find matches with just a couple hundred.

Yeah, I love spending my free time getting completely wrecked without being able to do anything. Pure fun.

2D. There's nothing inherently wrong with 3d but strings are kusoge

Get good lmao

Doa 6 is worse

>i-if i-its so e-easy

what the fuck is wrong with you retard? I just laid out what I did, I dont give a fuck about what you consider easy or hard to do, I was winning since day one and I was losing since day one, both of which still happen and yet I can now play well enough when I apply myself that I literally see in the future and become an untouchable footsie god

"Almost everyone" is a retarded kid like you who desperately wanted to win, not to fight

Because a new fighting games come out almost monthly and the fans have adhd and move on to the next trendy game. You have to get a fighting game when it first comes out of else you’ll be walking into a ghost town.

Nah, I just won't waste my time on the genre and leave you few hundred people to it. I'd rather play FPS or RTS.

Because casuals would rather be patted on the back in some rng fest or pretend they're great being carried by teammates than learn.

But BRs are mostly played without teammates and are hardly RNG beyond the very beginning and yet they're very popular. Sounds like fighting games simply have some core problems, just likrarena shooters.

You don't have to win to be patted on the back, any shitter can land and pick up a weapon before someone else and get a few kills and feel good about themselves. And there are enough bad players around that they'll occasionally do well.

BR's are literally RNG incarnate. It's a butterfly effect that changes the game in countless untold ways. You can do extremely well in the first 5 minutes and get killed. You can do absolutely nothing and win. The appeal of the genre hinges entirely on the chaos of a 100-person FFA. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a thing.

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i can see where you're coming from, but for me, the challenge is at least half the fun. it feels so incredibly good to improve over time in fighting games and go from being the one getting slapped to the one doing the slapping.

>and are hardly RNG beyond the very beginning
they're hardly RNG beyond the most important part where you establish chances of survival based on equipment which drops randomly? i think you're trying to deny the reality that BR-style games are popular because any joe schmo can get a bunch of kills or even win if he's lucky enough (moreso on consoles, but still). if a match doesn't work out for you, you can just play again and then hey, looks like you immediately picked up the best possible equipment in the game and now you're doing great. it has the appeal of a slot machine and attracts lots of casual players as a result.