Joker fucking sucks...

You're trolling. But you can just run away from him for 20-30 seconds easily. He mighit get one or two hits in at best and as long as you aren't fucking 140% he wont kill with uair or fair. He fucking sucks without persona. Fucking fanboys can't see that but wait until everyone realizes he's fucking shit

Cool. I'll still play him because he's fun and I like Persona

>tfw beating Jokers with Ridley already because I skewer them as soon as they activate Arsene
Get fucked animefags.

Attached: ridpe.png (1300x1300, 748K)

Good thing getting Arsene is easy

Doesn't help his fucking range though. Not hard to block and dodge his moves for 20-30 seconds. The only good thing his persona does is make his shit recovery a little less bad

Common thing I've heard about Joker is that he's Sheik w/Limit.

Who knows how good is Joker, its day 2. Then again, it only took us one week to realize Bayo was the best character.

I mean he is 100% shit online. Maybe he's better offline but that's a completely different game. We will see how he does at the next tourny

>People will realize he's mid tier at best

Bruh, WHO GIVES A FUCK!? Why does that matter to you. You can stomp on anyone online with whatever character you want. Why are you so angry that he isn't as good as Wolf in your eyes? You likely just suck.

I find him fun to play and I like his Persona mechanic.

>He's 100% shit online

You're playing as a character that was released 24h ago vs people playing as their main for 5 months. Of course he's going to suck at first in your hands.

He's shit online because he has no range so you have to time shit perfectly or you get punished. He can't just throw shit out like sword characters. And he's not like ness that can actually combo out of grabs which is the only thing he can do well online. He just sucks, period. He's light, no range, can't kill without his gimmick, shit recovery

Same reason sheik was shit online in smash 4. But high tier offline

But also, it took us months to realize Cloud was Top 2

Are posts like this genuine? It's gotten to the point where I can't tell the shitposting aside from how people actually feel.

His range is okay, some of the hitboxes are weird, however. Ftilt, for example, has quite a bit of range. He doesn't have anything safe on shield.

But the thing that you guys keep fucking up is that you think he's supposed to because he "plays like Sheik". This line is warping how you think Joker is supposed to be played. He isn't Sheik. Sheik has safe moves that do no damage.

Joker does a lil more damage but has significant spacing tools to keep you away. HE'S A ZONER. Not an up close brawler like Sheik.

Play him how he's supposed to be played.

Oh, "can't kill without his gimmick". He's guaranteed to get his gimmick AT LEAST once a stock. If you use his down b to charge it up he can get Arsene a handful of times per stock. It's very easy to power him up.

You're talking out your ass.

you cant be serious. relying on a gimmick that can just be waited out? Dude is going in the trash.

He’s all the worst traits of sheik combined with a XL tether and Simon’s slide without the extra jump at the end. He’s low tier and gets ass fucked by heavies.

>People already shitting on a character the first day of release because they can beat with their mains they've been playing since the game itself was released
"Hardcore" smash autists are another league of retarded.

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haha yeah, Cloud is so terrible man; wait what character were we talking about again

I feel like he has potential, glad that everyone is dropping him so that I can have him as a secret pocket

>disjointed hitboxes
>projectile
literally can't have better range scrub

Attached: Burgerpants3.gif (217x216, 7K)

ITs good that hes not top tier. Now people wont spam residentlseeper when he wins tournaments.

>He's shit online because he has no range so you have to time shit perfectly or you get punished
sounds like an excuse for you being ass too me

>muh tier lists
NIgger I main Robin because I think he's fun to use, like his design and love Fire Emblem. Same with the Belmonts and Zelda characters. Tourneyfags can play their Fox whatever else is meta, some people play characters because they like them.

I can beat him with Little Mac who I don’t use hardly at all

So he's a zoner that plays like a brawler? That's fucking stupid. There are much better zoners by the way. If he's a zoner, he fucking sucks at it
I can't believe his tether makes you sit there for a second before it takes you to the ledge lmao
He might have potential offline. I've only played him online
His side b is worse than ness. Just play fucking ness lmao

What's it like being so consumed by tiers that you can't have fun with a character? I play my characters because they're fun.
>Hurr, cope 5.99
I sold my switch months ago. I play Smash at a friend's house and the reason it's fun is because nobody takes it seriously.

Attached: 1552354484032.png (800x450, 881K)

Well whooptie fucking doo for you

It just seems to me like you're more concerned about how much other players and how they're probably not having fun than having fun on your own.

>His side b is worse than ness.
I main ness and let me tell you this is false, the non-existent endlag on Joker's makes it superior

>he cant take games seriously and have fun at the same time
you will never know the joys of high level play in FFA with crazy stages and items on

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But user, being a tier whore doesn't make that any more fun.

High tier characters tend to be faster and have bigger combos which makes the game more fun

>His side b is worse than ness.
It combos from throw and besides, that's not what his REAL projectile is. Enjoy being gimped by a Dante tier cuhrayzee bulletstorm

>HE'S A ZONER.
He's a gimper. He has great easy combos to rack up some damage and his gimping game is insane with his up B and B neutral, even more so when Arsene is out

I still cant get the hang of when I should be using bullstorm or what the optimal punishes against it are but at least nobody online knows that either so I can spam it without retribution

>running away
l m a o why even play the game if you’re gonna play like some faggot?

what's the bait? his persona has a time limit. you can literally just avoid him til it disappears.

Yeah but you actually have to avoid ness' side b. Jokers side b is fucking easy to dodge and small characters can just run under it. And if it hits you it doesn't do much unless he has persona boi

Seems like he plays more like Robin to me. His speed also feels closer to Marth than Sheik.

>just don't get hit bro
Yeah it's so simple to avoid someone in a one on one. Do you play all your matches in Palutena's Temple by any chance?

Maybe. Smash is one of those games that I think is more fun at a Medium level.
But I'm a filthy Ken and Ness main, so what do I know?

>10% off of a move that can be spammed without risk
>not much

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It's incredibly easy. You just continually run the opposite direction of the dude. It's a faggy way to play, but incredibly easy to do.

Are you retarded by chance?

Have you considered maybe people were more excited to play as a character they enjoy rather than for a high tier character?
I was excited to play K. Rool from the beginning and I gave no shits about how good he'd be. I was just happy to play as him. Not everyone's a tryhard like you.

Ah yes. That's why Cloud never hits anyone with his Limit moves anymore, because you can just run away for 15s.

I bet you couldn't do it against me, its not like Joker is Incinaroar, hes pretty damn fast and if I can catch circle camping mother fuckers as DDD you can bet your ass I can do it with him too

Spamming it won't do shit lmao. It's a good mixup but easy to avoid. and if it hits it just knocks you away and joker cant follow up

This. My two most wanted characters were Simon (Though I marked harder for Richter, since I couldn't even guess he'd show up) and Ken. I didn't care how good they'd be, I was just happy I got to play them.

Ok.

Zoners are usually pretty good at gimping because they can challenge recoveries from further away and at unconventional angles, sometimes with little risk to themselves.

one job for not having a moustache

quality retort

>run the opposite direction
>hit the edge of the stage in 1 second
>get tossed off the edge and gimped
Masterful move

ok

Arsene uses side b. You are now forced to do something since it's trajectory is such a shallow angle.

All Joker has to do now is jump

>You jump to avoid and he can throw out an aerial
>You sit in shield and he can fast fall and tomahawk grab you

Sure, you can just hit him first in the air, but then you aren't really avoiding him are you?

literally all of this is wrong.

cloud is solid without limit break. joker is fucking bad

Kirby, puff, DDD can literally float in the air beside the stage and wait for you to dangle there like a fucking idiot and hit you easily. Kirby can down air you while you're just sitting there waiting to reach the ledge and pichu can bair. His recovery makes no fucking sense

all of my gameplay and the footage I have seen makes jokers recovery look super predictable and gimp-able if he cant make like snake and recover high with his guns

youtube.com/watch?v=8Qw2xWHDYHk
yeah just horrible dude

I like him but he's sadly only good for 1v1, I can't imagine ever depending on Joker when playing with a group outside of fun, granted many picks are made in that spirit but I wish I could also pick him as serious choice.

>spaming the shit out of his aerial gun moves since nobody can punish it in an FFA
>abusing the down special in FFA crazy ness for full persona all the time
>randoming smashing everywhere and killing at Ganon tier percents
I havent played much FFA with him yet but he sounds like fun to play not fun to play against

If he was really good you would be bitching that he's overpowered and another example of busted DLC characters. There is literally no winning with you retards.
On top of that, he's been out for barely a day. No one knows exactly how to play him yet. Just wait a few weeks or months to see how he pans out.

reminder that Yea Forums thought Krool was top tier at launch
reminder that Yea Forums is hopelessly bad at smash and all other popular fighting games

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Damn, so Yea Forums is just full of keyboard pros who don't actually know the game? Who woulda thunk it?

He's fun though so who gives a shit what tier he's in?

He is 100% shit online. Maybe offline he's good but we will have to see. I'm only talking about joker online

>fighting a Joker
>just wait and punish all of his slow as shit moves
>releases Arsene
>think I am totally fucked, so I try to run
>Joker is noticeable slower then he was without Arsene
>easily wait out the meter
>Joker goes back to trying to fight me, only to die just from me punishing is slow moves

Seriously, Joker is fucking shield food. If you just shield his shit most of the match, anyone with a good range grab that isn't slow can beat him with ease. Even more funny when you pretend to attack, only for them to put up rebels guard which just tells the enemy "I am a stupid faggot please grab my face".

Didn't notice that Arsene decreases Joker's movement speed while in effect? He buffs attacks, but nerfs Joker's speed.

d-did you watch that video? even someone that enthusiastic about it confirms he's more fun than useful (This is fine for me but people here seem mostly focused on tier faggotry).

>open video
>"GUYS CHECK OUT THESE SICK COMBOS ON THESE CPUS THAT ARE NOT DI'ing!"
>close video

The thing is his range is bad even with arsene, they'll eat him alive in FFA

Kirby is probably unironically better than him after his buffs.

The point is he's not bad. Zero and Armada and others also have videos on him and they all come to similar conclusions. Great at gimping, good combos, Arsene is insane. Not bad but too early to say how good.

why do people keep saying shit like this? the only stuff online effects super bad is command grabs and projectiles

If you weren't such a hyperactive adhd zoomer you would've seen the combo videos where they have an arduino DIing away
Even in the first few minutes Leffen showcases a true combo

And the lag. The lagswitch people use so when they are losing they can change to winning. You DO know people do that right?

>Sheik except every 12 seconds he has Bowser's attack power and the best vertical recover in the world
>anything but high tier

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>powered up side special has an AoE hitbox that goes across the entire stage
>nobody is going to be able to punish his recovery
I just dont see it

True. Feels bad paying 5.99 for a fucking kirby
Not true. Lag affects everything. Smash offline might as well be a completely different game than online

Because he's just saying random shit user. You can tell right from OP he's a super scrub.

OBJECTIVELY ( I know there's no such thing) Joker is pretty much best case scenario when it comes to Smash characters and DLC, he features plenty of care, has a fun play style and isn't top tier pay to win character, I really don't understand why some would consider him being mid tier such a sin.

this image is so right it hurts

>A heavy that gets countered by Arsene hard, a mid tier lightweight who are guaranteed to die to Arsene, and garbage

Wow, such a dangerous trio.

>leffen
Fuck off.

Nah people use lagswitch when they're winning so they can just fuck around. They usually play snake or something and just spam. Good thing we have a report button that does fucking nothing
He gets fucking bodied by pichu. He has no range to hit pichu. And gets gimped really easy

I'm sorry I thought it was implied his lack of range was in reference to everything outside of his projectile move which isn't a killing one.

I have 700 matches in quickplay and I have never experienced this
Lag effects everything equally, your opponent is going to be reacting just as slowly as you, the only difference is stuff like Bowser's command grab that can become unreactable at even good latency and projectiles that become harder to dodge/parry. I have no idea what anons are talking about when they say that they drop combos due to lag

Joker's animations are slow as shit and are more risky to use then Sheik's moves. Fuck the gun. Fuck the f tilt. Fuck the dash attack. Fuck the slow ass side b (the stupid angle has literally had people with a forward moving down tilt just move under it and attack me, all before the attack even reaches the ground) seriously side b is one of the slowest moves in the fucking game.

What is the purpose of this Arsene is slow meme? His running and jumping speeds are the same in persona mode, the only speed difference in his moves is Eigaon being a little bit slower than Eiha.

OK, so what flavor of pro saying Joker is not bad do you want?
youtube.com/results?search_query=joker smash
We have Armadas, we have Hungryboxes, we have Zeros, we have Voids, we have more, just take your pick

>seriously side b is one of the slowest moves in the fucking game.
its faster than any other incarnation of the arc'd fireball, it has about the same lag as Wolf blaster and deals about as much damage and last I checked that move was OP according to Yea Forums

I know at least 12 people that have a lagswitch. its always left on. They don't even play offline, they have gotten so used to playing in lag, that they don't bother playing offline. They always win every match they enter. Always. Because the enemy is at fault if they leave.

This guy gets it. No fanboy faggotry here, just an user being honest
Lmao I believe it

Whats the point of a lag switch if you arent deploying it tactically? Jokes on them because as a Floridan I am well used to BR tier connections and their laggy bowser isnt going to take a single stock

>Acting like Pichu doesn't counterpick half the cast
Are you fucking serious?

Except you cannot approach Wolf from the front when he is firing, his gun will claw you.
>but its the fastest of all the slow moving terrible arc fire spells

Most people specifically use those off stage when the enemy is off stage so they can avoid being exploited for the animation lag. Here, the move's angle is so stupid anybody can go under it. Try using it against a Pichu and see what happens.

You can use it to gimp very deep and it combos out of dthrow at low percentages, with its dot it does pretty good damage.
>fuck the gun
lol, literally his best move. You're judging him too quick. Try learning to waveland with the gun (he slides a fuckload) and if you use its up or down aerials off the stage you can gimp hilariously easy, even more so with Arsene

They're all fanboy faggots so who cares? Only time will tell if he is really good in tournaments. As for online he's fucking dogshit
Wolfs blaster is much faster than jokers side b

>laggy bowser

Nice try buddy, they mostly play Laggy Ganondorf, the ultimate god of lag world.
>Enter battle with Laggy Ganondorf
>If he gets at least three hits in, you die
>He smiles

>They're all fanboy faggots so who cares? Only time will tell if he is really good in tournaments. As for online he's fucking dogshit
You're a fucking scrub so who gives a shit about your opinion? Create a room so I can kick your ass with him online if you're so great

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He gets equally bodied by fucking kirby

As a casual player, which I'm sure 98% of Yea Forums is as well, looking cool and fast is way more important than being useful. Sure I would have loved a Cloud scenario where I liked everything about him but as long as it's not a cool but tortoise character like Robin I'm fine.

Yikes...

>the gun is actually a extremely tactical and technical move that makes Joker a great asset

Yes I know, it sucks if used normally, so you you have to become a Meleetard to use it right, yes I get it, he sucks, you can stop now.

Holy shit that explains why 90% of the time I fight Ganondorfs online they're laggy as fuck. I don't get it when you say they never lose though? It's the same fucking game but laggy, I can usually thrash them just as easy, I just have to play safer but it's as hard for them as it is for me, hell once I get a hit in it's super easy to just combo them to death with the lag

>no believe me guys! He's about as bad as Little Mac
Sure.

>Wolfs blaster is much faster than jokers side b
They're literally the same. In both cases the actual projectile comes out on frame 16, and the character can move again on frame 50.

> the ultimate god of lag world.
Bowser's stupidly fast 8 frame command grab makes shielding a gamble in lag where you cant react to it and in lag people tend to default to shielding shit which only feeds its strength, nothing can compare outside of characters with kill projectiles that become twice as hard to deal with, not to mention that his smash attacks break shields and have super armor

A majority of people aren't used to lag. You usually go to quickplay, fight a normal fight, sometimes get a laggy fight. But you know that fight you had against a laggy Ganondorf and lost? Because you couldn't do shit? That was them. Every laggy match someone has where its hopeless and they nearly quit on their last stock, that's them winning again.

>scrubs call getting good "becoming a Meleetard"
I know Yea Forums can seem an aggressive place when you're a scrub, but there are places like Reddit and GameFAQs that are probably more in line with your skill level buddy!

HmMmMmmMMmMMMMmMmmMmMmMmMMmMmMmMMmMMmMmMmMm ok if you say so professor

>he is so bad cant dodge into the floor
>thinks his opinion on anything matter

>the gun is good if you just air gun wave land

Use fucking english or I don't give a shit what you are saying.

>please spoonfeed me
get the fuck out of my website

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>Joker fucking sucks
>The LAG guise

I’m really not sure what I expected. These are probably the same retards who will spam Persona 5 R help threads for a 2 year old game.

This is what people who lose say

>I'm a reliable source and not a scrub
>Speak English, what is wavelanding
>Misquoted
user.

>They're all fanboy faggots so who cares? Only time will tell if he is really good in tournaments.
>All of these tourney hardened veterans aren't good enough for me because I don't like the character
That's a cope if I've ever seen one.

Your mom puffed my cock lol

>K. Rool top tier
>Ike is a royal
LOL

bair off stage kills at like 60% without the persona though

Thank god people think he's trash. Now I get to main my favorite character and people won't think I'm just playing him for tier list reasons. Thank you based Sakurai.

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Have you fucking played Joker at all?
>his two hit dash attack comes out a bit slow
>his forward tilt is a fucking three hit jab, on par with a Cloud using forward smash not expecting to get punished at all
>*takes out gun*
>*tact*
>*nearly five fucking seconds later*
>*tac-*
>*starts getting comboed for trying such a lag filled move
>his fucking "flies over your head" side b

I honestly am in shock over the angle they put that side b at. In any other world, the logic would be "this move doesn't cause much damage, and doesn't even set up a combo from stun, so it should fly straight forward and be easy to land, as the ONLY positive" but no, make it fly at that stupid fucking angle that hits nothing. FUCKING WHY?!

Time will tell is a cope? Stop trolling nigger
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
You sure it doesn't kill at 20%? Probably kills at 10% desu. Don't forget his uair kills at 90% without persona

Been a Marth main since Melee and this image always makes my sides split

nobody online has ever managed to punish me for using the gun

Because it’s a zoning tool. Good thing you also get a gun that does shoot horizontal.

>Joker's animations are slow as shit

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No way jose

lmao do you even know you can dash out of the gun
>dash attack is slow
frame data says otherwise scrub

So, any datamining going on with the update?

are you that guy that was trolling about Ridley being OP? I'm starting to think thats the only explanation for this

Joker has good frame data aside from his neutral air and something else I can’t think of right now.

Fair1>FF>dash forward>Uair>FF>Dsmash
kills most of the cast(not heavies) around 110 to 125% from a little past mid stage to ledge. Heavies need fair1 into bair at like 140ish. But that's not the point his edge guard game is pretty good. I wont say hes top tier though. Low high/high mid. It works.

About the only interesting thing found was the Arsene also had a code name, Doyle.

Low high/high mid is the perfect part of the tier list for fags like me that rely on matchup inexperience for easy wins. people all dropping him day one unlike the Plant that managed to keep flooding quickplay for a week looks like good news to me

>joker can break k rools belly with only one of those consequence free Arsene counters

Sakurai is the biggest gook faggot on earth. Keep this androgynous anime garbage out of smash

I'm glad he's not broken. That way, people won't whine and bitch when I beat them with him.

Omg but have you seen his persona he's high tier probably the best character in the game omg

>It’s another “K Rool main has to learn how to play the game” episode.

the majority of smash players are complete garbage and can't even do theoretical character analysis right, melee really rotted people's brains on how to be good at 1v1 games

Attached: vonndu.jpg (640x608, 41K)

You're a joker

Eat shit and die weeb faggot. I’m a Simon and Bowser main. That counter is broken regardless who the match up is.

Garbage compared to who? To you? Can you beat them?
>theoretical character analysis
Let me guess, that's your forté. lol

Maybe it’s because people have jobs and have had sex

>throw shit at him so he can build uber for free
>wtf this is broken

>People complain about almost all of the DLC crew in Smash 4 are broken or high tier
>Joker is not overtly powerful but not shit either
>People still complain
I guess you can't please everyone.

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no, but you can see how much smash faggots value top player opinion because they constantly get harassed to make tier lists and do deep dish frame by frame analysis of character trailers to determine how good a character is, and as soon as you take them out of the equation, you have threads like these where people stand strongly for opinions and people get extremely divisive between "this character is perfect" and "this character sucks their mum's nuts". It happened before launch with K. Rool and a good few weeks after the game was out and it happened with Cloud and Bayonetta in 4.

>joker always spamming the counter
>grab

They never saw it coming

>he cant beat the scrubs on Yea Forums
pretty sad dude

I really dont wanna be this person. I dont wanna rely on Arsene so I dont use Guard that often. But it pisses me off in the mirror when he gets Arsene first cause every 3rd action is Down B and I'm not the most competent to read/punish it every single time.

seriously what i hate about joker dittos is it feels like the other player is being rewarded for getting their ass stomped in. neutral's kinda fun tho

Why is a low income mexican woman who has 8 kids posting here?
You can fuck and win. Shit my pal Magister makes his girlfriend run his big tiddy poster booth when he does pools.

Got Joker into elite in just a few minutes and was already making people rage quit with him. He's not broken but not bad either, probably a lower high tier, easy. Op either can't win with him or got his ass handed to him by Joker, it might have been me, sorry op.

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It wasn't pros and frame analysis videos that said K Rool was good, it was random shitty players in forums like this one.
>Cloud and Bayo
No clue what you're talking about, people were saying they were good and they are.

thats not really a metric for quality since I got Duck Hunt, Lucario and Little Mac into elite with 2 matches each, it just means that everyone online is trash

Mid is the best tier though. You're not cheesing anyone and you're not using a worthless character.

Good work, Sakurai. Keep it up.

>implying mid tiers cant cheese

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>everyone online is trash
Exactly, just like OP is.

Yea man, tons of top players think he has potential, but you must be right, fuck those rioting fanboy personafags!

quickplay doesnt mean shit

Maybe you should stop giving him easy counters then, because all of this characters are either easy to predict in terms of bowser or K-rool or give easy projectile spam counters with Belmont.

Man this thread was a waste.

I like playing as him because his finger snap is really crisp sounding.

lmao zero