He's shit

>Leffen, who’s been consistently wrong about basically everything in Ultimate, gave a definitive tier placement for a character he’s played/labbed for a few hours and hasn’t seen what anyone else is doing with him

He's ok, at least he isn't OP

what about incineroar?

>labbing/labbed
tourneyfags deserve death

keep coping jokerfags as I continue to farm free GSP off of you

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Yeah because Leffen has never been wrong about tiers int his game before, right?

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Fuck off. If you just want to play casually why does it matter how good a character is? Just pick who you like.

memes aside, what's his gimmick? do I want to play with the aerials mostly?

exactly

>rack up percentage before your persona
>kill with the persona out

hes really annoying , not hard just fuckin annoying

Guess falco is top tier and wolf is mid tier then, it's over bros

how?

>tfw having to drop donkey kong because of all of the spic kids playing him and lagging me out

ha ha it's really fun just careening off the edge because you faggots run your internet off a fucking cactus

Expect he’s a less boring Sheik

He's top tier. Only complaint I've gotten from others is its hard to kill without Arsene. To those people I say, fight off the ledge more.

Farm any projectile you see for persona

Going for kills off stage is the only reliable way to kill without arsene, other than f-smashing people right at the ledge

His gimmick is his base form being speedy but weak, with Persona being more powerful but slower.

FUCK LEFFEN

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but what do I do without arsene? just try to poke with aerials? or stick to ground game? also when Arsene is out what should I be focusing on? aerials again?

Are you complaining that a group of people have a word to explain that they practice? Jesus Christ

Except Arsene mode is not slower? The fuck ar you talking about

Play like Pikachu or Fox. You're fast enough

>Spend five minutes waiting to get a match in arena
>Host shuts down XD
Fuck you all

youtube.com/watch?v=aYAe1jOsgws

there is already a word for that that doesn't make you sound like a tard.

>fight starts
>announcers don't even know if the background is P3 or P4

this is cringe

>single counter against a Krool canon ball gives you 80% meter
I feel like he is going to have some stupidly good matchups against heavy projectile characters

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normalfags didn't even know what persona was until 5

P4G sold 1.25mil, sounds pretty normalfag to me

It fills completely if you eat ganon's fsmash

Was that fucking retard Leffen right about 1 [ONE] character in this game so far?
It's baffling that the guy is barely a top 64 Ultimate player and just because he speaks the loudest people think he's worth listening to.

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>WTFFFFF WHY IS JOKER BAYO TIER FUCK DLC AND FUCK NIGGERS
>LMAOOO SHIT CHARACTER NICE DLC WASTED SLOT NINTENDIES

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Everything decent and strong is slow and clumsy, while everything that sucks and is pathetic is fast and reliable.
I cannot figure out for the life of me how to use his gun. At all. It fires too slow. His "shoot while dodging" is dumb, his dodge itself is too slow. His jumping up animation of using the gun is too slow.
His side b is too slow.
Haven't really been experimenting with his grappling hook.
He really feels pointless, I just don't understand him.

>Leffen
who is this leffen and why do people keep mentioning him?
is he like the kotaku of smash?

Gun is pretty much only useful for shooting down and gimping off-stage. Side B is absolutely broken and the best part about him - it's incredibly quick for a projectile that does 13 fucking damage (20 with Arsene) and can even lead to combos at a certain range.
Dash attack is fire, options after throw are strong, aerial attacks have poor range but decent properties otherwise, kills stupidly early with Arsene.

>His side b is too slow.
it also has no endlag and doesnt stop your movement mid air so its very easy to spam the shit out of it and a single hit is worth 10%, his downward shot is also really good for breaking disadvantage against aggressive foes and the spinning shot is pretty much an automatic gimp on characters with weak recoveries, not saying hes top tier or anything but I think he has some potential

Ok, so what do I do against a enemy that constantly uses shield and has a faster better range grab them Joker does? Lose instantly?
>try b
>shield
>try side b
>shield
>try down b
>nothing because they are shielding, or they just grab you immediately
>dash attack
>they shield it and shield grab me
>run up and try to grab them
>they just shield grab me cause their grab range is longer and their grab is faster

WHAT DO I DOOOOOOOOOOOO

He literally has slower run speed and doesn’t jump as fast. How fucking retarded are you?

I cant tell any difference

Check it out in training mode, the difference is so massive that it’s jarring.

Seriously he goes from Fox to Ganon speed

I mean how is this strawman scenario any different for other characters lol?
Poke their shield (DESTROY it with Arsene) or run up and grab them into Joker's 30%+ confirms (check Twitter/Leddit) or keep throwing side B cause they can't punish it.

At most he drops like 5% speed if any, it doesnt seem like that big a deal to me

>Poke their shield

With what?

> or keep throwing side B cause they can't punish it.

easy to get around

>Incineroar gets no buffs and gets fucked hard by Joker
It's over bros...he really Inshitterbore

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Gun seems worthless.

Remember in Smash 4 when everyone thought Roy was the best sword character? Or when everyone thought Cloud was mid-tier? Or when Bayo's nerfs would kill her? People are way too fast to judge a character's viability.

most people dont know how to react to it so it has its uses, mostly its only good for the aerial tricks and recovering

twitter.com/Lythero/status/1118761298848882688?s=20

I was convinced Cloud was broken from day one, me and my bro tourneyfag and he couldnt take a single match off my Cloud with anyone but Cloud

>Freinds coming over to play with Joker, says he's labbed all day and is feeling confident
Tell my how to absolutly destroy this man. What are Joker's hard counters?

His gimmick is that he doesn’t have any kill moves except smash attacks at 150

Literally would only work once with anyone above 20 IQ

Batman

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This character feels poorly thought out in a few regards. Most people online haven't been bitches about it, but every once in awhile I get
>oh shit my opponent got his persona out
>time to run around and play keepaway like a bitch until it's gone lol
And I can't blame them for it. There's literally no reason not to just try and run out the clock until he's back to his weaker form.
Beside the fact that a Joker getting his ass beat gets his persona every ten fucking seconds, which just seems stupid and like another instance of mario karting the game too hard.

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Assuming that's the case, that's all the better; means I don't have to feel bad about maining him.

It really isn't the case, though; people are just looking at his percentages and making assumptions.

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>Be pretty okay Joker by getting into Elite after 4 hours of playing him
>Have about 12 other characters in Elite, one of them and my personal best being Pikachu
>Play against Pikachu online as Joker
>Pikachu just neutral B's nonstop
>Literally can't do anything and dies
>lose all 3 stocks to neutral B

If you face Pikachu, you just lose.

Can't you just, like, uh jump?

Can't you just down B to use them to charge up the demon thing? Haven't bought the DLC

Slang is fun and you’re a fag

at any point if you get thrown off the stage, neutral B spam guarantees you'll never make it back.

Yeah, on stage you're fine but once you get knocked off and the spam starts to happen, you're hopeless. At every length during the tether recovery, you're vulnerable to the traveling shock

Pikachu only had to dash attack me, forward throw me etc and gimped me like Little Mac. It was awful

I was about to hate this weeb trash, but I feel like I’m actually playing against him unlike Bayonetta in Smash 4 so he alright.

>the guy who Snake shit
>the guy that Salem called out
>the guy who main Fox in Melee
Yeah ok, you want to suck this guys dick when you know he will forever be wrong.

nigga just hold down and press b

Why are you playing a Japanese game if you hate "weeb" trash? Redditfags are so strange.

Rebel guard doesn't protect you against throws, you mongoloid.

yeah joker's recovery is looking seriously shit with how it forces you to go low most of the time, all you have to do in the mirror is jump down and do the spinning shot and its a free kill

>eat the lighting
>let the counter attack go when he runs up for the grab

I'd say Shulk, because you can cheese out a kill before the persona activates if you use Smash Art at the right time. However, I can't easily recommend it because it takes a bit to get the hang of using arts properly and it sounds like you are in a bit a rush. Your best bet is to stick with what you know and just play more passive then you normally do.

It's pretty rough once people figure that out. I know in most mirror matches I gimp 2/3 Jokers who tether recover low. Thankfully I've gotten very good at teching wallspikes so it doesn't affect me super hard unless you get straight up spiked.

>hold down B like a retard
>Pikachu isn't spamming neutral B on stage because the game just fucking started
>Get locked into your gimmick animation
>Get f-thrown offstage
>recover low because that's all you can do with tether
>Pikachu starts spamming neutral B
>Where's your down B now?

I feel like playing characters with superior disjoints against disjoint based characters can be a pretty decent counter-play, although I wouldnt call joker disjoint heavy

I fucking hate his up-smash. It's so shit, it can barely hit anything and covers a piss ass small area

you know his gun gives him horizontal range too right

>press down B before any projectiles are even thrown
>implying you cant end the animation before he could get a grab
nigger how do you even play this game

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This, on top of the fact that Jump, Shield, and Speed Arts all allow you to stall out the timer on the Persona. If your feeling more risky Buster will deplete the meter ridiculously quickly.

Have you considering reacting to your enemy's moves

>Buster will deplete the meter ridiculously quickl
I thought it was just based on time, I didnt know percent damage always effected the Persona length

>What are Joker's hard counters?

everything until he gets arsene

It does. It lasts 30 seconds by default, if you try it out in the training room or watch any other gameplay and pay attention to the meter, you can see it getting drained by big hits.

You have to keep in mind who you're talking to here. Both Yea Forums and the Smash fanbase are littered with turboautists. They can't simply have fun, or pick a char they like and git God. They let tier lists dictate their picks, and despite that they try to feel superior to others because Smash is the only thing they're decent at.

Joker is the most fun I've had playing Smash in a long time and he's perfect for my playstyle, where before I was stuck playing Snake and Bayonetta because they were the only two characters I had fun playing.

her head looks dumb

hell most of the people that take smash super seriously arent even good, my normal-fag brother that barely even plays anymore can probably free up 90% of Yea Forumsirgins

*he's in

You say this now but the moment a character you don't like is top tier you'll bitch for nerfs. I know your type.

only if that character is Palutena

So what you're saying is he'll get nerfed. Good.

Nice projection but nah, sorry.

Honestly sounds better than Lucario's
>get him at 150% to kill him with almost any move
>now all his attacks have increased range plus damage and he can recover from anything that doesn't kill immediately

don't remind me that furry garbage is in Smash Bros thank you

the way the Persona works its not too bad if they run since if someone is in the process of getting steam rolled the Persona will come out and give you some breathing room

all the melee fags are irrelevant in ultimate
please stop dickriding

Plup is going to git gud and dominate Ultimate one day, just wait

u wot

his up smash fine, especially out of shield

I can't even figure out how to do the flashy gun moves in the air.

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Hold B in the air. Tilt down to shoot straight down, hold up to spin. I hate the input, 2bh. Feels like it's designed to only make sense if you have stick jump on, whereas doing grounded shots and then launching into the air means having to go claw grip.

fire the gun once then hold the stick down for Dante action or hold it up for the wheel, you can also jump while grounded and firing for the Dante action

That might work if the pikachu wants to commit and play the game but what if they just camp with neutral b and zigzag out when you try to punish them?

>not using the pro controller
>not using Slap City default controls

Why do people ignore the tips section in the vault?,It has valuable information people

you're asking me for a play by play on a matchup I have never played before but I dont see why you couldn't just keep sucking meter from his projectiles as he camps then use the powerful gun/fire upgrades to really put the pressure on

I'm a new dude. I just dunno, I don't really see much counterplay for joker against campers with strong projectiles. The wait to release counter when they come in is entirely read based and can be played against easier than the joker has to adapt to keep from being grabbed or hit with a delayed projectile.

Joker is great but what about hazardless mementos? There's no reason this stage can't be legal. It's not as big as acorn plains and it's visually appealing as heck.

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my big issue is that it would be another massive stage in a meta dominated by large stages

What? all the stages that are ever played on are town and city and the pokemon stages

yeah and all of them are pretty big as far as potentially legal stages go

Not really? Not like stage size is that much of an issue with how fast games are and how fast people die in ultimate. Now if this was smash 4 I'd understand

Are you that dumb faggot who thought that the like 30 frames Inkling spends recovering at the end of roller was near instant and thought you literally had no time between the start and end of Zelda's up B to react?
Get your fingers and brain checked. Get one of those reflex testing hammers. You're fucking concerning.

>There's no reason this stage can't be legal
It'll be illegal because competitive Smash is full of faggots with shitty rules

> not binding a trigger/bumper to special
It's like you hate your fingers. You'd have figured this shit out already if Smash had an abundance of jump cancelable moves.

I hope people are at least willing to test it

Why he so sexy. I wanna fuck him so bad.

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In 2 weeks there will be threads complaining about how Joker takes no skill to use.

Literally every character has had a thread like that. King Rool, Mario, Young Link, Corrin, Lucario, ALL OF THEM

It's got smaller blast zones than Battlefield in my experience

The Lucario ones are intentionally fallacious though

K. Rool bodies him.

Probably because they play Smash night and day with no brakes. I believe you need a long rest between play sessions.

Bullshit, a single counter on his canon gives 80% meter

So don't shoot the fucking cannon at him when he's open for countering? I've been eating these little twinks since noon.

Hazardless mementos is like castle siege and battlefield had the perfect baby. Not excessively small and no stupid slope like CS and one platform removed from battlefield. I've found my new favorite arena stage

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> joker can't start the counter after you shoot
What kind of retards are you fighting? Can I fight them too?

Inkling can't get gimped by normal Joker, and can contest with persona Joker's options fairly well

Beating quickplay scrubs at some mystery rank doesn't mean anything or else DDD is actually a hard counter to swordies

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Retards with 4mil GSP. The little shit can't keep up with a hard-hitting heavy.

It's rly easy to do vs fox/falco cuz their recovery is super predictable.

>Character is out for a day
>Smashautists already making verdicts on how he tiers.
Do you guys not realize how stupid you sound?

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Leffen said Snake was bottom tier. Fuck Leffen.

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Are you implying every other fighting game fandom DOESN'T do this?

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My dude, I've played joker against K.rool and invalidated him. Can we trade?

Fine by me.

My first elite match with Joker was a link that never even tried to use a projectile after I countered the first one and he got 3 stocked, quickplay means nothing when it comes to matchups unless it's the top 1%

Sheik is as boring as it gets.

The people who know what they're talking about typically don't. In this case we got tourney people doing it.

It's not. It has stun and can gimp character pretty easily. It also has high knockback when you hit your opponent point blank while Arsene is out. Hell, you can even dodge with it offstage for better recovery.

why is he so small? link's master sword is bigger than joker not even jokering

>vita game
japs count as normies nai deshita yo

Only 30% of sales were Nip

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Well of course they're going to release their worst character first. If they revealed Doomguy first the rest of the DLC characters would feel lame in comparison.

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I don't like his gimmick and play style, but the stage and music make up for it

Actually, compared to most of the other human characters, he's pretty standard. He's about the same height as Ken and Ryu, slightly shorter than Simon and Richter, seems to be exactly the same height as Cloud, and Link too really (though Link's head is stylistically larger), a spit shorter than most of the FE crew, with Ike being taller than all of them obviously, and so on and so forth.

He's honestly of very average height. He just looks small because his stance is so narrow compared to the other human characters we see. He's very slim and slender and doesn't stick his feet or arms out much while idle.

I didn't know 30% of the world was Japanese

とんでもない