Redpill me on CRT TVs/Monitors for retro gaming

Or if you're willing to settle for very slightly downgraded color from RGB and you're a cheapass, find yourself a small 14-20 inch unit with component and find a solution to convert RGB video to component (e.g. I use my RGB modded N64 with an HD Retrovision SNES/N64 cable). Looks fucking gorgeous still.

I've got a cheapo flatscreen RCA brand 14 inch CRT I got for like $30 almost a year ago. It does up to 480i and takes component, but unfortunately not S-video (and as far as I know there's sadly no straightforward solution to convert S-video to component either).

what about component?

Better motion and native resolution for old consoles. Sprites look less blocky and pseudo 3d looks better. 3d console games (ps1-2, n64, dreamcast, gc, wii) will look like shit on both lcd or crt, emulating is the better choice here.

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If you have the room for one and play /vr/ shit then yes go for it. Few things though:
flatscreens warp the picture
it's not worth it if it doesn't have at least s-video or component
learn how to access the service menu to fix any display issues otherwise you'll end up like this retard who thinks such things are impossible to fix
try to find one in person instead of online because online sellers are out to fuck you out of your money (and shipping a CRT across long distances will lead to them being broken upon arrival)

And if you don't want to commit there's already a gorillion different alternatives out there.

I haven't used a CRT in a long time so I don't remember if this happened on real hardware, but CRT shaders look distracting once a game starts moving vertically, it feels like the lines start moving separately from the image.

Greatly reduced input delay when playing with older consoles, compared to just plugging it directly into a modern TV.

A must if you are serious about playing very precisely, such as doing speed running or playing something like NES Tetris. Though it will probably improve your enjoyment of all retro games because the typical display lag resulting from plugging an old console directly into a modern TV is (almost always) so massive that it would be obvious to even casual players.

What do you mean investment? Don't you still have yours?

I'm 30 and I never really thought about going back to CRTs for any reason. The only issue is old games that look like absolute ass on modern TVs, but I emulate a lot of older games and that usually sorts that out a bit. Every time I see people jack off over CRTs I wonder if it's people even more nostalgic than me or kids who missed the CRT gaming era.

why would you make a screen that fat? 3d?

If you really are into retro games, there's nothing better. You can't represent retro games accurately on a flat panel display - you can't even scale correctly until you hit crazy high (4k) resolutions.

The only reason I don't still have a CRT is the last of mine have died and they don't make them any more.

I see the screen as an art piece itself, kind of like how some people go extravagant with their case or coordinate their internals. Some rooms look good with a CRT I think.

Making room for the SOUL

its a hipster meme, but there is nothing wrong with that.

if you want to put a snes and crt in your living room because you think its cool, so be it.

consider that emulation is an alternative though.

>implying you can't do both

>consider that emulation is an alternative though.

Because of the filters? I've never bothered with them when I emulate things.

What games are giving you trouble? All of mine look fine on my 55 inch.

I've researched a lot...

Believe it or not, a common, 20" TV with composite cables is the best one up until PS2/Xbox/Dreamcast/Wii/Gamecube.

Why? It'll make the image soft, it'll blend the pixels, it'll smooth the aliasing... If get a tv that's too big the graphics will be all jagged.

So, a consumer grade TV with composite cables are the best option. Starting PS3, Xbox360 and up you should use HDMI.

If you want to use Widescreen, then, maybe a Plasma TV would be the best option, but you need to use the non-HD ones.

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hell no, dot crawl is fucking ugly and doesn't smooth over anything. it's additional high frequency noise

Im sure people guzzling over CRTs grew up with flatscreens.

>flatscreens
You probaly mean LCDs. CRTs can be flat too. Anyway fuck CRTs.

For real hardware that was designed around a CRT in mind it's amazing.

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Nothing wrong with zoomers wanting to go back experience things they missed out on.
Nu-gaming is a meme anyways.

In the 1900's, they built video displays out of particle accelerators that you'd point at your face.
There's an electron gun inside that thing, with some electromagnets controlling where it points, and it sweeps a particle beam across the screen to light up the pixels.

Yeah, right user, right. It's a "zoomer" thing.

Check out this topic:
racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52491

Also, take a look at the HUD of this video, it's all jagged with component:
youtube.com/watch?v=KAdSe-QthwM

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yeah yeah and exhaust pipes are just rocket nozzles you're now forced to put on the back because flying cars caused too many accidents

I'm 29, I've been into PC since late 90's so my last experience with consoles was on composite and antenna. When I've tried an rgb crt tv for the first time I was blown away about how my childhood game, ALTTP, looked so sharp on an old ass TV.

>investment
Nigger, you can get a 40 inch trinitron for like 20 bucks

That means it's a sharper signal. Clearly defined pixels is a sign of higher bandwidth output with less interference.

Lots of things, but like I said, I emulate a lot of games for convenience even if I do have physical copies. Some older games like the Spyro PSX trilogy look fine, but some like Jet Force Gemini look awful.

>what about component?
Most CRTs don't really support 480p, even if they have component input, so you'll only get marginally better image over s-video, you'll probably won't even notice it.

So what?

Look how the composite/RF signal makes everything blend. Also the color gamut in a NTSC cable is different. Even the colors get wonky in a RGB/High def set.

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100% perfect geometry is impossible, you fucking moron. I messed with the service menu on a PVM for hours and hours until I finally gave up, because no matter how close to perfect it was, I could still see the imperfections. Some people are just more sensitive to that shit. People like that are better off buying an OSSC.

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There's also the proportions in NES and SNES games you need to strech the image to fill a 4:3 screen. Nintendo used a different proportion, it's 8:7. If you don't strech everything will seem strange.

There's an argument of what's the correct aspect ration because some stuff are not "squared". It's was obvious a development issue, some softhouses took that in account.

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It's a preference mostly. I prefer sharp pixels but I can see the appeal of using composite for a more blurred look.

Just scored a 20 inch 1080i Sony CRT with HDMI and Component inputs for $15.

CRT is not a meme. It's the way old games were meant to and should be played.

Is this bait? Anything with an HDMI input is going to be shit for retro.

Technically and artistically, the assets made during that period were designed with the technical limitations of the CRT in mind. The little, almost imperceptible black outline that surrounds every pixel makes the low resolutions sprite pop and appear more vibrant. Your brain automatically fills in the gaps created between the pixels making the sprites/images seem to be high res than they are. It's a pretty cool effect, and it's why games and low res media always look worse on modern screens with no discernible gap between pixels.

To answer your question, it depends.
If you've got the room and don't mind using it for very specific use cases, sure. I think you can still pick up a reasonably sized CRT TV for under $50.
To be frank though, you'd honestly be better off emulating old systems and using a filter to emulate the effect of CRT scanlines.

I hope that shit doesn't upscale. Run 240p test suite.

>HD CRT

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It can be great for Next gen stuff. But I don't think it's good for retro.

Dark souls will probably look amazing.

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Fuck CRTs. They are aging and huge. Get an OSSC and configure it correctly get you a wee bitta dose PIXLES, baby.

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I forgot to tell all you need to choose is the look from a Sony TV vs other tvs. I prefer shadow masks (other tvs) because they blend stuff better. Sony TVs has aperture grille, which gives an arcade feeling because of its scanlines.

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sorry this is the correct image

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>tfw I picked up a 25" sony trinitron for 20 bong a few months ago

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its not a hipster meme.

its like restoring an old muscle car and when it comes to the engine you got 2 options for your brand new "67 chevy... resto-mod an old 350 v8 or go based LS1. The choice is yours, but being period correct is more important to some.

same with retro games. I personally just use pic related. But my friends prefer to be period correct.

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few yrs ago I picked up the MM25 art book and on one of the pages some of the devs for one of the nes mega man games discussed the manipulating and tweeking of sprites they had to use in order to compensate to downgrade CRT's in the 80s would output. They had to design the sprites for RF like hollywood had to design constumes for black n white film.

My geometry is stuck like this. I went into the service menu to fix it but you can't just adjust one corner.
It has issues with the speakers also. It's a real shame, it was a nice TV.

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CRTs are the only way to play 240p or 480i content without it looking awful - as long as you're using quality cables instead of composite nonsense

yes, NES Samus' armor really shiny in a CRT because of the CRT bloom. Also she doesn't look thin, she's more proportional because the aspect ratio.

You don't need to care about running any meme CRT filters.
You don't have to worry about rendering games any higher than NTSC unless you just feel like oversampling.

It's hard to get comfier than a CRT

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3d games on consoles will look awful no matter what. Increasing the native resolution with emulation is the only way to make them look good.

Interlaced games on emulators look terrible though. It creates a very blurry picture, especially when you move the camera.

Clean your ps2

I like that one. What's it's name? I'm going to check on eBay.

Yeah I hope that someone find a way to make pcsx2 games progressive. I've read that these games were hard-coded to render in interlaced or something like that.

Well games from back then were made with these tvs in mind. Ever try hooking up an old composite console to a modern tv? It looks all blurry and the input lag hurts my soul. You gotta buy special adapters and shit to get a better picture or a modded console. So at that point its probably even cheaper just to buy an old CRT someone is trying to get rid of, than going on amazon and buying a bunch of special shit. Plus some games even use the CRT's quirks to its advantage. In the early sonic games, if you hook up a modded genesis or adapted as fuck genesis to a new tv it fucks up the waterfalls in the background. They are drawn with just a bunch of white lines close together, then the composite used the natural "blur" of crt screen to make it look like a waterfall. if you play that with a modded console, it takes that effect away and the waterfalls are now just those white lines.

20M4U

Good luck

>investment
For fuck's sake, did you not get one when they were practically free at yard sales?

They are worth it and not merely a meme, but obviously you shouldn't spend too much.

Worst part about CRTs is getting rid of them when they stop working. Smaller ones you might get away with dumping in dumpsters but I got a big boy I'm gonna have to pay money to a recycling site to take it, and find a truck to haul it there.

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I need to, and realized it as soon as I too the picture.

Don't use eBay. Don't. Use Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. eBay prices have massively inflated.

I'm pretty sure there's a way to make every game progressive but it's a case by case basis. For example Persona 3 never offered a way to enable progressive scan but someone made a patch that enables it. These progressive scan patches always come bundled with the widescreen patches so it's a pain in the ass to find which games have these or not.

This. I called a local broadcast studio and that had some in storage they were willing to give me if I came down and picked them up myself. Got two free pvm 14m4u's out of it

forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-No-interlacing-codes
Is this what you're talking about?

Yea. It's good someone made a list but OP's incomplete. Like I said, these codes often come bundled in the widescreen patches for some reason. Persona 4 (I erroneously said P3) is one of these games and seems to not be listed on that thread.

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I've been looking for something small like pic/related myself

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Why do CRT connoisseurs never recommed flat CRTs? What's wrong with them?

Bad corner geometry

Gamble with bad geometry, warped picture and stuff.

As someone who grew up with them I couldn't imagine any reason to go back

sounds like some onions shit

Outside of lightgun games there is no point

Go to the local repair guy and spend the 12 bucks to have it fixed.

Lots of reasons. Almost all flat CRTs aren't actually flat, they're curved on the inside with a flat glass in front. This results in poor corner focus, warped geometry, and uneven convergence across the screen. There is pretty much no amount of adjustment you can do to make it look right. Among less pertinent factors are the fact that flat CRTs were made in the late era of CRT production, when many of the companies known for quality became cheap chinese garbage.

you need to open up the unit and apply these little strips with magnets attached to them to fix that kind of issue.

>Is it a worthwhile investment or just a hipster meme?
A mixture of both, but a genuinely worthwhile investment if you’re particularly into consoles made before 7th Gen (and Wii), or old analog video formats. The high end of CRTs is now a meme dominated by hipsters, hoarders, and enthusiasts with a dash of overlap between the three. That said, they’re amazing if you can find one at a good price.

If you’re price sensitive, you should make a point of looking for CRTs that cost less than a scaler you’d find adequate to use on your flat panel. VGA CRTs are a thing you should keep an eye on if you already know 15kHz whine drives you crazy, since they run at a horizontal frequency beyond the range of human hearing, are versatile enough to be used as displays for modern PCs to this day, and haven’t been as badly memed as studio monitors yet.

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It's really just an aesthetic thing, however a lot of graphics from the 2D era were designed specifically to look a certain way on a CRT. If you don't use a CRT, you will want some kind of upscaler though because old consoles on modern HDTVs look like complete and total ass

I still think the biggest advantage of a CRT is the lack of display lag

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I mean it could be but I'm no hipster.
I just like having a setup

If you want a softer look, use svideo, not composite. Svideo's combined chroma but separate luma signal will prevent disgusting dot crawl but look more blended than RGB/Component.

Component left, svideo right for reference.

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I had a Sony "HD-ready" HS series VVega and it gave an amazing picture from S-video. I was playing FFXI on a PS2 and the NTSC S-video picture quality was almost as good as VGA. Then the power supply started going out and I was glad to get rid of its 80 kilos of boat anchorness.

This is the same argument people use now for "innovations" in tech.

Sure, removing the headphone jack from a phone may make it slimmer, which is what many people desire, but there's still people who want to use older tech without that functionality removed. In the same way, it was nice for TVs to get slimmer and lighter, but new TVs don't work the same way and definitely aren't as good for CRT era tech and media

CRTs look like shit. They're for nostolgia goggle wearing retards. Do you play modern games with chromatic aberration, DoF, motion blur, and TAA? If you answered yes then you probably have too little brain cells to know what any of those even are and would enjoy the visual puke that CRT is as well. No, visual puke is not the way the artists "intended" it and that's not how they made the art.

0/10

CRTs refresh the full screen
modern monitors do not

Inresting, I may try that. I used S-video on my N64.

Can you do that with NES and gen 3?

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If you notice it appears that the composite creates a smoothier render on the edges. But I'll try S-video.

Sorry about your brain rot.

>modern monitors do not
I'm pretty sure they do

Not true at all. It didn't matter. But we wanted a bigger tv though. Maybe a flat screen one.

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a hipster meme
ask anyone who actually grew up with a CRT, we don't really care to go back

>my sample size is myself
yawn

This is some revisionist shit right here. Early LCDs were fucking awful and inferior to CRTs in every category outside of weight and footprint. People bought them because they were new and manufacturers were happy to get away from CRTs, but they were straight garbage for years. It wasn't until plasma that we got something that didn't look like shit

I would avoid CRTs altogether. When I was younger like 12 or 14 I would get massive headaches and altered vision from playing Mercenaries Playground of Destruction and Killzone 1 on Xbox and PS2 respectively. I emulated Mercs 1 on PC about a month ago, I have a cheap LED monitor not no CRT shit and nothing happened at all. No headaches or pains whattsoever.
All I did was double the games window size so I can atleast see it in Windowed mode. I played for hours and had a helluva time up until I got bored of it again. Have not tried Killzone 1 however on PC yet.

crts are great

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Clean this
*unzips dick*

>No, visual puke is not the way the artists "intended" it and that's not how they made the art.

Literally wrong:

youtu.be/kILeyo1iv0A?t=80

it's a total meme. CRT emulation shaders will genuinely give you the same 'feel', which is itself actual garbage that people only want for the sake of nostalgia anyway.

the particularities of having an actual CRT, eg. the buzz of the tube, triggering nostalgia, is the main thing. unless you are a hardcore nostalgia fag (autistic manchild scumbag).

HMDs are going to achieve retina resolution and replace all other display devices within a few years, anyway.

I use an OSSC and a modern TV for most retro games and a CRT for the PS2

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>Retards who have no idea why people prefer CRTs
>Well-meaning /vr/ bros try to educate people
>All it ever does is fuel shitposting or worse, drive up prices for this old tech even more
I hate these threads

I said ask anyone

Are you retarded?

Anyone except me

And by the way, I forgot to say, S-video is looking great. I'll definitely try it. I'll use the Svideo on SNES and do some tests.

I played on a CRT as a kid during 4th gen. I used one all the way up until 2008/2009 or so, then went strictly LCD for a long time before being re-introduced to CRTs and realizing how much they recaptured the look of all the old games I used to play. Eat shit.

zoomer here (18)

Is this supposed to look good to me?
This one looks great but the others look blurry with lines.

that's called nostalgia
someone who's never had a CRT won't even appreciate this single aspect of it (the only aspect it has)

You tried

The point is you're basing that on your own opinion
Your sample size is one person, yourself

Yeah user, it's just nostalgia.

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Yes.

Just checked here, there's no NES version that can output S-video.

I think it's a gen 4 and forward thing.

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Hipster meme. Here are the chief advantages of a CRT and how you can surpass them on an LCD.

>black levels
Less important than one might think. While CRTs do display pure black, adding bias lighting to your setup will make it so your eyes percieve your LCD's black level as pure black, making it a completely moot point. While on a technical level LCDs are inferior, human vision is much more variable than ones and zeroes, and just having decent ambient lighting in your room completely negates this downfall of LCDs.

>scanlines
There are numerous shaders for emulators that can add this feature.

>reponse time/ghosting
ULMB and LightBoost reduce motion blur so close to CRT levels that it's indistinguishable to the human eye in motion. Any modern high-refresh rate display has some kind of strobing technology, making LCDs on par with CRTs in this regard as well.

>color accuracy
A good IPS display can display the entire sRGB spectrum, making it identical to CRTs in this respect as well.

tl;dr there is no real reason to go for a CRT over a high-refresh rate LCD, since modern technologies make up for LCD's shortcomings providing an experience that's nearly identical if not superior (due to LCDs having perfect geometry).

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>here are the chief advantages of a CRT
>fails to mention accurate rendering of nonsquare pixels
absolute waste of time

youtube.com/watch?v=Tfh0ytz8S0k

>A good IPS display can display the entire sRGB spectrum, making it identical to CRTs in this respect as well.
kek

gen 3, gen 4, gen 5 and gen 6 used NTSC color gamut.

I paid $2 for a 22" Trinitron that I later modded to accept SCART.

They're easy to find, but working on them isn't for the faint of heart. Lot of danger in there.

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>blurring a sprite disguises the fact it's made of pixels
oh how thrilling
just slap a layer of vaseline on your monitor and you have the same effect

Watch out when dealing and modding tubes though!

They're dangerous, they can charge, if you touch the wrong place it'll discharge at you and you may die or lose a limb.

Good luck playing rail shooters like Time Crisis or HOTD on a non-CRT monitor because they don't work on an LCD.

>I'm blind

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Anyone that says hipster meme doesn't know shit. Light gun games do not work on LCD's properly.

CRTs do not display true black. That's bullshit.

Looks like shit.

Looks like extreme shit.

>black background
really stupid example

>CRT in 2000
nobody cares
>CRT in 2019
WOAH SO NICHE SO COOL SO SUPERIOR

Shut up, you weren't even born before 2001

yeah, right, reeeally stupid example.

CRT in the 2000's was the default.

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How can anyone unironically prefer this smudgy shite with lines running through it? Fucking hipsters.

Yes it's a stupid fucking example you mongrel, it would much better show the difference if the background were any other color than fucking black. You absolute retard.

Look, Im gonna give you guys the down low from someone who has spent as little as $5 on a CRT all the way up to $1100 on a PVM.

1. PVM's/BVM's are NOT worth the effort/money. 90% of the time they are missing the RGB card you need to game anyways. Many of extremely bad issues and are in need of repairs, additionally, they do not look as good as people say they do, period.

2. JVC, Sony and very few Toshibas are the only consumer CRT brands you should care about. Period. JVC I'art and Sony Trinitron series are the best of the best. I found pic related (I'art) for $5 at Goodwill.

3. Finding these are way easier than you think. Goodwill and other Salvation stores DO STILL HAVE THESE EVEN IF THEY SAY THEY DONT. They LEGALLY cannot get rid of CRT's, ask them to see what they have and hound them if they are dicks about it. Goodwills price on CRT's is $4.95 for EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

4. You WILL need to buy the SPECIFIC remote for your tv. UNIVERSAL REMOTES WILL NOT WORK, PERIOD. Google your models manual and buy the remote on Ebay for $5. Learn to use the manufacturers menu to fix problems.

TL;DR Stay away from PVMemes and BowelVM's, 100% not worth it. Buy a cheap consumer set instead.

Extra tip: These fuckers are heavy, usually 100+ pounds for any significant size.

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People can fight all they want, your options are Craigslist and ebay.
Craigslist is great for flipping or finding CRT's. Smashfags will take whatever price you tell them allowing you to buy from Uncle Lester for $20 and get $50 back on a shite TV.
There's a few charities on ebay that'll allow you to buy like-new or decent quality Trinitrons and PVM's for money, albeit at a price that's respectable of what they are. You'll sometimes see them cheap, though.
Check local business or stations for broadcast PVM's and shit. They'l sometimes give them to you.

Yeah user, really, really stupid, right?

Samus armor even shiny.

More examples here: vg-resource.com/thread-30181.html

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How much can I sell a crt for?

*you're
You fucking inceLED inbred

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>Right
Vomit-inducing

10-15 bucks

Something between nothing and 10 bucks

PS: Pictures can literally never do a CRT justice, ever. The gamma effects have to be seen by the eye.

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> I'm only pretending

>Goodwills price on CRT's is $4.95 for EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

as someone who works at goodwill you are wrong.

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t. indie dev

Could be regional then. Been to 6 Goodwills in three states and seen about 50 CRT's, all priced at $4.95.

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>It’s another thread where hardwarefags attempt to justify their purchases
Stay on /vr/. Thanks.

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Zoomers absolutely SEETHING

I'm only 20.

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>1. PVM's/BVM's are NOT worth the effort/money.
Agreed, at this point just go for an emulator and a LCD, if it's RGB/sharp pixels what you want.

> JVC, Sony and very few Toshibas are the only consumer CRT brands you should care about. Period.

Depends, if you like Shadow mask any TV is good.

Hideous.

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Resident Evil looks awesome too.

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The TVs that were actually good for games back then can't be found anymore, so everyone memes as hard as possible by blowing loads of money on interlaced arcade screens and Trinitrons because they're hipster as shit.

Short answer is: if you find a 90s CRT in good condition you fucking get it and all you will ever need is Yellow/Red/White composite cables. The colors will blend properly, the pixels will soften into recognizable shapes, and it also makes every PS1 and PS2 game look significantly better.

Hi-Def was a meme for retro gaming and even most "next gen" consoles look like shit if you play it on 2000s model CRTs, because it makes the flaws stand out instead of masking them. PS3 and onwards is the only thing that made use of progressive scan properly.

Trinitrons look like shit by the way, I cringe every time you reddit kids fish for upboats.

t.boomer

What is that circular thing under the Wii?

I just want a small 10~ bezelless crt for gaming.

Is there such a thing? I absolutely hate the bezels on most of these crts

Where my CRT Monitor bros at?

I agree except for one point

>Yellow/Red/White composite cables is all you need

Composite works on everything from Super Nintendo up without modding needed. Composite looks better, period.

It's stand has it.

Mine had as far as I remember.

>using cringe, reddit and boomer
Yea Forums is rotting your brain

Meant to say Component here. Component 100% looks better.

its

but m-muh nostalgia

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I have 6 Trinitrons in storage and just found a warehouse of cheap 20" medical PVMs

that's cool as fuck