Name a better protag.
I'll wait
Name a better protag
Isaiah Gonzalez
Other urls found in this thread:
lparchive.org
twitter.com
Brandon Bell
Cecil
Dominic Miller
Skyrim man
Zachary Hughes
Lightning
Gabriel Davis
>any FF protag
>good
Who started this meme?
Adam White
Lightning
Austin Hill
Terra
Mason Harris
>Cloud
>good protag
Cloud is a terrible character, and it's because his entire personality revolves around a shitty M. Night Shyamalan-esque plot twist.
For starters, before the twist is revealed, Cloud doesn't show any indication he is suffering (aside from some vague hints that the story glosses over), so the end result is that he goes from being a taciturn hero who has internalized someone else's memories as his own without realizing it to...a taciturn hero who outwardly appears the same, but apparently has resolved all those deep-seated issues, no really, believe me.
Furthermore, what is even the point of the whole Nibelheim incident? Cloud goes from being a heroic person (which he clearly is, judging by the flashbacks where he rescues Tifa twice and defeats Sephiroth) who failed to qualify for the elite squad of the evil cyberpunk regime (i.e. not a group you'd want to join) to assuming the memories of...Zack, another heroic person who did qualify for the elite squad of the evil cyberpunk regime. As far as catalysts for mental breakdowns go, this comes across as very pedestrian in the grand scheme of things. It's like the writers wanted to have a plot twist and an identity crisis, but couldn't think of any compelling material for such a storyline.
Another big issue that FVII suffers from is the dialogue. Everyone in FVII communicates in very basic English sentences. Despite being a group of misfits, some of which aren't even human, all of the characters have very nondistinct and same-y styles of speech. Since there's also a weird lack of voice acting (not even grunting noises for taking damage), characters don't feel like particularly distinct individuals.
Jordan White
>Terra
>girl with no distinctive personality traits whatsoever and who is completely passive and spends 99% of the game going 'muh amnesia' and doing nothing
>best protag
Elijah Davis
even frisk is better than him user
Zachary Williams
>Name a better
hahahahaha
Michael Anderson
>hey terra we need to save the world from kefka
>NO I'M A MOMMY NOW
>hey terra your kids are about to be eaten by humbaba
>NO I'M TOO SAD FIGHT HIM FOR ME
Terra a shit, Celes best girl
Kevin Scott
Not Serana
Jason Adams
It's all about subtext. FF6 is a very nuanced game made for intellectuals.
Camden Kelly
Zidane is the best FF protag and also /ourguy/
Nathan Nelson
Only the original FF7 version of him was good. All his future reincarnations are godawful.
Wyatt Gutierrez
Link. He's more fuckable
Brandon Hughes
Tidus and Squall.
Tyler Morris
>Zidane is the best FF protag and also /ourguy/
Lincoln Williams
>Goes from a foul Dark Knight to an honorable Paladin
>Has a girl chasing him to the point she risked dying in the desert for him
>Saves the girl several times while he also manages to cuck his best friend repeatedly throughout the plot of the girl they both love
>beats his older brother several times and makes him turn from evil back to good
>has to fly to the moon to save said brother and their alien race from death by a very angry jerkass who is also a member of their race
>Succeeds and becomes the king of a land he wasn't even set to inherit by blood, he was just adopted by the king and took over since no one else was available
>Marries the girl he kept saving and makes her his queen
I'm not gonna go into TAY but yeah, Cecil gets it the best ouf of all the FF heroes.
Anthony Ortiz
Truly the Hamlet of vidya
Which isn't saying much because Vidya is shit
Cecil's arc is done 1/3 into his game, at least FF7's conflict is centered around Cloud's up to the end
Locke is the protag in FF6 more so than Terra
Easton Lee
Oh Cecil you kill my parents
Grayson Richardson
The fact that someone autistic enough to make that image prefers Cloud and Squall over Zidane is a stronger argument for Zidane's superiority than anything I could say.
Aaron Martinez
>it's all about subtext
I agree, too bad FF6 shits the bed there too.
Jace Gutierrez
I can't
Michael Hughes
You're not listing things that make the protagonist be a good character you're just listing good things he did in-universe or that make him happy
Wyatt Perez
>taking the time to type all of this up
Jesus Christ, dude. It's unfortunate that you have such intense autism that you lack the imaginative capability to distinguish between characters based on their appearances alone.
Cloud is a great protagonist because he is unique, interesting, and relatable. That's all it really takes to create a character worth roleplaying as.
Hunter Moore
>no indication of suffering
you didnt play the game
Daniel Hughes
This, this is what weaponised autism looks like
Andrew Richardson
Only her mother. She never had a father ;)
Xavier Ward
Dadtos and his BOY
Camden Thomas
>Everyone in FVII communicates in very basic English sentences
?
They speak Japanese user, what the fuck are you talking about
Angel Martinez
Young Kratos is literally a better character
Robert Campbell
John Smith
>Zack, another heroic person who did qualify for the elite squad of the evil cyberpunk regime
The sad thing is, Crisis Core shows that Zack was a genuine hero and nice guy and would've made a much more likeable protagonist. Instead, we get Cloud and his attempt at an identity crisis while he steals another man's identity and the childhood friend just sorta falls for him even though the game explicitly shows they didn't interact much before as kids except that one night at the town well.
Anthony Morgan
>frogposter
automatically nullifies your post
Thomas Edwards
>muh ebin anime sob story
grow up!
Gavin King
>Character who is attempting to grow from his past actions and decisions
vs
>Character who is continuously oblivious to his current actions and decisions.
Ryan White
Neither of those descriptions makes for an inherently weak or solid protagonist, weebtard
Blake Garcia
No, GOW kratos is superior, while the young one was just a killing machine alimented by hate and vengeace. The old one is a depressed man who just want live in peace and get over his cruent past and don't know if he can (and deserve) have a new life as mentor and father for his new son (mostly after have suffered so much after the death of his previous family)
William Morgan
but he got cucked.
Christopher Robinson
Learn English first then post again.
Zachary Ramirez
Young Gratos was just a hypocritical edgelord
Jaxson Green
Jaxon Mitchell
Which is already more than a single parent in the woods
Aiden Russell
>Which isn't saying much because Vidya is shi
based and high iq
Nathan Reed
Cloud is my hero.
Looking forward to the remake.
Camden Allen
And you learn "how to not being a dick", not everyone are from Usa/England, there are people of other nationality like me (italian) who don't speak/write english as main language
Christian Peterson
>Dad of Boy
Everytime
Aiden Martinez
>read text thinking no human that isn't a lobotomy victim could be that retarded
>then notice the person is a frogposter
all is right with the world
Cooper Baker
Zitto giorno giovanna vai a mangiare pizza
Carter Kelly
TPBP
This is now a Lightning thread
Post the Goddess
Talk about the Goddess
Love the Goddess
Owen Smith
Matthew Price
Jackson Fisher
>Kiryu
>IT'S PAYNE
>CJ
>John Marston/Arthur Morgan
>Dante/Nero
>The Nameless One
>Courier
>Nerevarine
>Francis York Morgan
>Henry has come to see us!
>JC Denton, in da fresh
>Master Chief
>Joker
>Leon S. Kennedy
To name a few.
Elijah Kelly
Camden Walker
Camden Baker
>Young
>Over 30
Wyatt Foster
Why doesn't Lightning have a butt? Or tits for that matter.
Parker Morris
-er
Samuel Parker
Shion Uzuki.
Robert Sanders
Ma vai a mangiarti quella con l'ananas
Luis Hughes
She does though
Aaron Martin
this
Joshua Stewart
pizza con l'ananas è underrated
Joseph Ortiz
Well? Where are they, then?
Jaxon Williams
hmmm....nope
Jace Rogers
Right here
Gavin Cooper
Mason White
autistic as fuck. Squall is the biggest emo faggot in all of gaming history, 8 was a terrible, terrible game
Grayson Hughes
easy
Luke Baker
Literally anybody else. Cloud isn't even the best FF7 protagonist, that goes to Zack.
David Garcia
Nice copypasta
Camden Walker
>Undertale
Literal underage
Benjamin Walker
Mason Taylor
Ethan Lopez
Old Kratos was a crazy bastard and that's what made him and the games fun, i don't give a damn about le deep heartfelt redemption, especially if it involves an annoying kid - as if old Kratos didn't have moments of clarity anyways
La direzione del reboot ha ucciso la serie per me, GoW games were never perfect but they compensated with personality, and now that's gone
Carter Cooper
Leo Edwards
Say wathever you want, but still the game is considered the best one of the entire francise by both players and critics, and it also won the GOTY.
So ADDIO nostalgiafag
Jason Campbell
Che ti devo dí, you sheep are more than welcome to enjoy crap and feel validated by the popular opinion
Landon Gutierrez
Tyler Martinez
Dominic Taylor
>JRPG protags
YIKES
John Thomas
Henry Hall
>no mention of Fuckhead in this thread
come on, Yea Forums
Lincoln Phillips
Within FF I can't. He's nearly peerless.
Cloud is my favorite FF protagonist. He had an excellent arc [That comes full circle, showing that he was just like you and I. The subversion of the cool protagonist trope (just like the other party members were subversions.). Which just made him even more cool. The end game Cloud has probably the lightest of steps in the franchise. That guy was at peace.] and psychological dissection. He's multifaceted and human. Cool, relevant and competent to endear you to continue playing. Embodies humor and seriousness in a wonderful mix for my tastes. "You look like a bear wearing a marshmallow." will always define Cloud's personality for me. Something he would say off guard on the spot.
Only Terra rivals him, but she lacks the psychological in depth examination. Most certainly because of hardware limitations.
>God Tier (Have nuanced arcs with a twist in them.)
Cloud, Terra
>Great Tier (Have arcs and/or their prominent personality is that great.)
Shotgun, Serah, Butz
>Good Tier (Likable, have quirks and/or let their actions speak for themselves.) (Zack is awful as a character, and only gets this high by being so ridiculously likable.)
Onion Kid, Warrior of Light (DDFF), Fighter (I), Zack, Lightning (LR)
>Average Tier (Aren't annoying and exist, can be cheered for.)
Yuna (X-2), Firion
>Bad Tier (Annoying and/or unpleasant.)
Ceodore (ongoing), Squall, Lann, Vincent
>Terrible Tier (Obnoxiously annoying, a detriment to their party, one note personality or failed to establish a personality even with big effort.)
Ace, Lightning (XIII), Zidane
>Atrocity Tier (Attempted to ruin their games, committed atrocities or have no reason to be there.)
Cecil, Tidus, Vaan
Jackson Lopez
>Within FF
Good thing I didn't ask for that
Matthew Barnes
>Only Terra rivals him, but she lacks the psychological in depth examination. Most certainly because of hardware limitations.
What hardware limitations? FF7 doesn't even have voice acting, its story presentation is basically identical to FF6, it's all done through text boxes.
Robert Lee
I like to imagine he constantly calls Nomura at three in the morning desperately begging him to draw pictures of Lightning's feet.
Jackson Butler
Well, I certainly didn't see you correcting anyone else in the thread. However in that case Garrett from Thief 2 is the best protagonist.
Brayden Morris
You cant play FF7 and tell me barret talks like the others, cringe and liepilled
Jason Thompson
Cloud was great until KH came along and Squeenix decided to suck all of his personality out with a straw in every appearance of Cloud since then
Dominic Wilson
Holy fuck, this so based. I'd love to see a weeb try and refute this.
Chase Evans
>You cant play FF7 and tell me barret talks like the others, cringe and liepilled
>the sole character who has a distinctive style of speech talks like a discount Mr T
>this is supposed to be a positive
Brayden Perry
Stocke, Lenneth, Jack Russel.
Brody Sanders
Jordan Richardson
They had trouble with fitting the script into VI as is. As such the cartridge was already as full as can be (The fact that Square became masters of storytelling through implication was no coincidence.), they wouldn't have the space to weave a larger tale for Terra, so we only got the most important parts. I'm certain they would've done more to explore Terra's psyche, if they had the chance.
Carter Robinson
you probably just googled it now that I BTFO your stupid ass and its not like Mr T just fucking admit you didnt play the game
Brody Anderson
>weird lack of voice acting
It’s a 3 disc ps1 rpg. You wanted to make that like 6 discs?
James Thomas
Every time I see your awful list I die a little.
William Jenkins
As much as I like him, Squall and Gidan are objectively the best protagonists in any FF game.
They respectively take all the positive traits of the "introverted" and "extroverted" character archetypes, while at the same time entirely discarding all the negative ones.
Anyone who calls Squall "emo" and/or compares Zidane to any mainstream shonen protagonist, automatically proves having objectively shit taste other than being completely clueless about what makes a good character.
Luke Gutierrez
WRPGs are soulless
Alexander Green
>pizza con l'ananas è underrated
Jose Nguyen
>It’s a 3 disc ps1 rpg. You wanted to make that like 6 discs?
Virtually every rpg from the mid-90's onward had voice acting, even rpgs made with a fraction of FF7's reportedly 140 million dollar budget: Grandia, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.
The complete lack of voice acting in FF was always bizarre, especially since they were trying to do the whole cinematic game thing.
Aaron Garcia
Hot take, voice acting made rpgs significantly worse. Baldur's gate keeps it to major events only.
Ryder Phillips
>They had trouble with fitting the script into VI as is. As such the cartridge was already as full as can be
What does the size of the script have to do with anything? Look at this comparison for example. The bottom speech is shorter (Kefka's speech is abridged, his full speech is longer), yet the quality of writing is vastly superior.
>The fact that Square became masters of storytelling through implication was no coincidence.
You can't be serious. Square's storytelling was always amateurish, and outclassed by almost every other rpg developer during the 80's and 90's.
Colton Jackson
>only gets two songs in Smash to represent his 30 year franchise
Not good enough
Lincoln Watson
Luke Mitchell
And the prize for the best cherry-picked pic goes to...
Owen Lewis
I'm always willing to discuss all the characters in it and I enjoy seeing what others think. Final Fantasy is still my favorite video game series after all. Have we spoken before?
Mason Nguyen
Rudy
Henry Myers
Xavier Cook
This
Fuck voice acting FFX would be improved without it
Carter Diaz
I forget, is this the episode where we hope nobody has actually played the games you're talking about, the episode where you hope people who have are willing to be quiet about it, or the one where it ends on an unsatisfying reveal that you were pretending to be retarded all along?
Michael Martinez
>Hot take, voice acting made rpgs significantly worse.
That's like saying graphics made rpgs significantly worse. By your logic, rpgs should have never progressed past the 8-bit stage in terms of graphics.
>Baldur's gate keeps it to major events only.
Baldur's Gate has party members that are fully voiced. Not only do they banter with each other, but they also have hundreds of voiced reactions for specific situations, e.g. crying out for help when reaching low HP or cheering wehn scoring a critical hit. Not only does this greatly enhance the audiovisual experience of playing the game, but it also helps a great deal to flesh out the party members and give them distinct voices.
The lack of such a basic feature, while pouring billions in lavishly detailed corridors, is utterly idiotic. It wasn't until FF13 that they really implemented this for the first time (FF10 has it only sporadically, FF12 not at all).
Nicholas Cook
You're boring cherrypick-kun.
At least try some different fallacy once in a while
Justin Powell
You, Ser, are a man of the most patrician of tastes
Alexander Nelson
>What does the size of the script have to do with anything?
I'm just assuming from the fact that they shortened all sorts of stuff (Like Fenix Down) for space, that it was necessary. If it was a CD, more new descriptions, dialogue and events would've fit. I don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to think this.
Asher Johnson
I didn't even have to leave the game's universe to find a better one.
Zachary Butler
>comparing a mindless hack and slash to a story-driven game
Pathetic. At least compare games that both have an emphasis on story.
Also, did you seriously copy-paste the original image and just replace a few words?
Henry Rogers
Justin
David Reed
Big time
Well, I don't think they directly did, But most of the best rpgs are 2d or isometric. Super basic voice acting is fine, but I struggle to name a good fully voiceacted rpg. Yes sometime "progress" isn't actually.
Robert Brooks
That's a joke Yea Forums holy shit calm down
Jeremiah Cooper
>Hot take, voice acting made rpgs significantly worse.
>spending 100+ million dollar on graphics and cutscenes is good (FF7 had a 140 million dollar budget)
>but spending a pittance on voice acting is bad (e.g. Quest for Glory 4, an RPG from 1993, had a total budget of less than a million, yet was fully voice acted, with performances from the likes of John Rhys-Davies)
Joseph Howard
Me in any self insert role
Jaxon Ward
Make new ones, I get so sick of seeing this same shit everytime.
Blake Thompson
No, spending a ton on cutscenes is also bad. Voice acting ruins games, 99% of voice actors are shittier than my internal dialogue. Same reason books are better than audiobooks.
Charles Gomez
Weeaboo waifufaggots cant come up with a single argument. Most nip rpgs are barely even rpgs, you often play the role of a character with a strict character arc and typically have stats that push them into a specific role, hell, all the early FF games are like this, Chrono Trigger is like this, Persona is like this, and the vast majority of weeb rpgs are like this, with a few exceptions. On the other hand, western rpgs almost always focus on a character that YOU are free to develop. YOU, the fucking PLAYER get to decide what ROLE your character plays in this ROLE PLAYING game. Face it weebs, your beloved waifu and loli simulators barely meet the criteria of what an RPG is.
Jonathan Garcia
It's a shame his game is such a clusterfuck, I actually loved Noctis as a character. They just needed to give him more time to grow and the pacing not to be a confused mess
Grayson Flores
Noctis, but only outside of XV.
Hunter Ortiz
>I struggle to name a good fully voiceacted rpg.
Michael Flores
This. Zack is the best protagonist in the franchise, though Cloud is cool too.
Isaiah Miller
Cloud and Zack are two very different beasts. Because Zack story was about maintaining optimism in the face of a world fat isn't optimistic. Zack joined Soldier under the impression that they were a force for good only to realize that they were irredeemably corrupt and that the best he could do was hold on to his own sense of honour. Cloud story was completely different, his was learning to have a sense of self-worth and confidence in his own ability and personality. He joined Soldier hoping to impress The Girl Next Door by being bigger people. And then when he couldn't make it he doubled down on pretending to be bigger people. Completely forgetting that he had already overcome both Zack and Sephiroth and he could have won the heart of that girl long time ago had he just been himself. And him pretending is actually what made him susceptible to sephiroth, once he established his own personality sephiroth was never able to control him again.
Two protagonist. Two very different takes on the same concept of a country bumpkin joining Soldier
Joseph Foster
...
Thomas Walker
No, they needed him to do something and interact with a story instead of following the script around.
Charles White
>such a chad that a confused broken mindfucked grunt starts pretending to be him
goddamn
Xavier Ross
I like the concept of Final Fantasy 15. It just feels like it didn't have enough time in the oven. Which is completely harrowing when you consider that it was in the oven for 10 years
Christian Morgan
Feel free to try again. Dropped this shit like a ton of bricks. I also struggle to name a good first person rpg. As in I can't do it.
Dominic Rogers
lol you westcucks are the ones who can never make an arguement
>but dude you can kill the final boss with multiple ways!!!
>instead of fighting him you can talk him out of it with a high speech stat
WOOOW THATS SO COOL I guess that makes up for the shitty music, gameplay, character writing, and every other aspect of WRPGs.
They let you CHOOOSE WOOAAAAWW ITS SO COOL! Meanwhile the rest of the game fucking suffers in every aspect but but at least you could pick pocket this quest item instead of killing the guy right xDDD so creative!!11
Kayden Ramirez
XV was in the oven for like 2.5 years.
James Kelly
>WOOOW THATS SO COOL I guess that makes up for the shitty music, gameplay, character writing, and every other aspect of WRPGs.
I wish weebs would stop spreading this false narrative.
Blake Peterson
Matthew Ward
>ive never played a JSRPG the post
Carter Reyes
"A monument to non-existence" is one hell of a memorable line, sorry dude.
Lucas Rivera
lets compared xenoblade 2 with D:OS. XC2 does the same thing as the OS's world/battle transition except it's not turn based, enviornmental hazards are in play, blade combos (which create seals to block off tributes/moves) and driver combos (incapacitate/burst damage) combine to create fusion combos which increase the effects of both combo paths and apply bonuses, such as extra party gauge, increased special build up, etc. Then you have other things to consider; positioning, pouch items, type of enemy, elemental weakness/resistance are some of those. On top of this, the game has a canceling mechanic that requires proper timing to boost specials and arts. Behind the scenes, characters are completely customizable with different blades that change stats, classes, abilities, passives, and certain ones have special prioritizes which change up how the game work (e.g. corsette brings a new dynamic to potion collection which increases fusion combo damage, an extra incentive to give up positioning to collect potions rather than just health). I havn't even gone over additional mechanics like just range or affinity, the latter which intertwines narrtive elements into gameplay, something further emphasized with the DLC in terms of blade partnership vs ownership.
I challenge any wRPG fag to find a wRPG with a more involved and satisfying combat system
>wRPGfags will never know the feeling of stacking combos and timing a level 3's invulnerability frames to negate a party devastating AoE into a chain attack with 4 orbs build up into a full burst
maybe if wRPGs had good gameplay they wouldn't all be dead aside from shit eating normies who buy TES
BONUS: no wRPG has come close to the exploration of xenoblade X. No wRPG has come close to the story of xenogears, the closest is planescape torment which had it's world copy-pasted from DnD instead of creating a rich one like gears/saga as well as having a largly irrelevant cast (only party member that matters is morte).
Bentley Bailey
>when jrpgs have basic tactical options like being able to fucking move, they're classified as a separate genre, a strategy rpg (despite not having any actual strategy layer like research, base building or resource gathering
>meanwhile, wrpgs have these basic tactical options by default and nobody bats an eye at this
Daniel Wilson
FUCK K. ROOL
FUCK MARIO
AND FUCK KREMLINGS
Oliver Turner
its not basic options, go play disgaea without grinding its fucking chess on steroids, show me a single WRPG with the depth of disgaea/SaGa
Camden Perez
>all this text to defend a mindless single-player MMO
Brandon Howard
Dominic Robinson
Better protags from FF:
>Tidus (best of all-times)
>Yuna
>Squall
>Ramza
>Butz
>Lightning
Benjamin Cooper
why don't wRPGfags ever have an argument? why did you post something filled with elements not in the game? Why does it still look better than any gameplay montage of any wRPG ever released? wRPGs died for a reason
Jonathan Richardson
>o wRPG has come close to the exploration of xenoblade X. No wRPG has come close to the story of xenogears, the closest is planescape torment which had it's world copy-pasted from DnD instead of creating a rich one like gears/saga
Imagine being so mentally deficient as to think Xenogears has good writing. It would take an entire college thesis to completely detail the awfulness of the writing, but here's perhaps the most damning example of Xenogears' atrocious writing:
lparchive.org
The link lists the exploits of a certain character, who the writers obviously intended to be seen as sympathetic and one of the good guys. But because Xenogears' story structure is so ridiculously convoluted, with crazy revelations and shocking twists happening at every turn, examining the actions of that character for even a minute leaves one no choice but to conclude that said character is utterly despicable, because the writers had no qualms about twisting characters to faciliate their convoluted rollercoaster of a story. This is how the entirety of Xenogears' story is constructed: it's all style with no substance. All surface depth, appearing to be deep by name-dropping just about every philosophical and religious concept in existence, but exhibiting about as much understanding of those concepts as a 4-year old.
Another strike against the game is that half of it is missing. The second disc of the game is basically like having a friend tell you all about how amazing the game is while occasionally handing you the controller to fight some boss battles. I have no idea why people gave it a free pass while completely losing their shit over something like the Mass Effect 3 ending.
Henry Kelly
>Tidus
>Anywhere but F
Oh now I know you're fucking with me.
Owen Wood
>no argument
BTFO wRPGfaggot. Go back to jerking off over P:T's word vomit with the other 5 30 year old virgins living in their mom's basements who still give a shit about that game
Jacob Clark
that's an awful lot of words that say absolutely nothing, there are no crazy revelations until the end of disc 1 and start of 2
Ryan Davis
What the FUCK is this post
Jack Bailey
>as well as having a largly irrelevant cast (only party member that matters is morte).
Because unlike your shitty jrpgs, Planescape; Torment has actual agency. Party members can permanently die, leave the party or the player can simply not bother to recruit them or ditch them. So party members can't be necessary to progress the plot, otherwise it would be impossible to complete the game if you did certain things
Even so, Planescape: Torment manages to turn that into a strength, by making the party members thematically relevant. Every party member is a reflection of the Nameless One's condition in some way.
Ryan Russell
>I wish weebs would stop spreading this false narrative.
Ok confess you're a mod from ResetEra, aren't you?
Also I like how your pic just reinstates your initial statement without addressing the objection in the slightest.
Benjamin Scott
>Teedus
Eh debatable. Don't get me wrong I like him but I feel like his change from selfish to selfless happened too sharply.
>Yuna
I LOVE this character. Cloud is still #2 for me. But she's a close third
>Squall
Whatever. I mean I know he isn't emo. But he's too closely linked to Rinoa. And I hate Rinoa so by extension I don't like him. I know it's unfair and stupid.
>Ramza
I could go on all day about why he's the perfect protagonist
>Butz
No one can hate Butz
>Lightning
I liked Lightning in 13. But Toriyama took her too far
Luis Thompson
Asher Johnson
so that's an excuse to not have character development? Vandam who dies after half a chapter in xenoblade 2 was far more relevant and developed than any non-TNO character in P:T. Now go ahead and name a wRPG with a good combat system, or at least one equal to XC2's (you won't, the genre died for a reason)
Jackson Russell
>unironically using an ironical paper as a legit argument about a game's writing
Please have mercy of my sides
Brandon Robinson
Wait, this picture was about the protagonists all along and not the games, except for the top two? It's hard to believe the main characters and games line up for you so perfectly? Now, I'm curious: What are the top things you tend to value the most in Final Fantasy games.
Jason Cooper
Camden Ward
yes, having characters who can die off means they shouldn't have any develo-
OH NO NO NO NO
it's abosolutly insane how 1 (one) jRPG can destroy the entire wRPG genre
Jason Hall
what a fucking awful design holyshit
Carter Long
The only time he beats Golbez is after a save from Rydia.
Ian Ward
>no argument
YIKES!
Aaron Garcia
No, it's about the games. Strong games have strong protagonists.
Bentley Ross
Tidus belongs at the bottom.
Parker Thomas
>Party members can permanently die, leave the party or the player can simply not bother to recruit them or ditch them.
Even something as basic as the first Langrisser had all of that.
>Every party member is a reflection of the Nameless One's condition in some way.
Dude...Dude, that's so fucking DEEP, damn...this is the true power of Chris Provolone...
Tyler Russell
How can any non-homosexual find an ass like this arousing?
William Howard
>>Tidus (best of all-times
Logan Baker
>Decent speech in common syntax vs lame speech in heightened prose.
I bet you think David Cage's games have great dialogue.
Levi Stewart
Planescape was boring and I'm a wrpg fan. I'd rather read a book.
Jonathan Peterson
Xenoblade 2 is ugly in general aside from the setting.
Justin Gomez
Sure they do have them, but still it's kinda remarkable that your top seven at least line up in order.
But I really am curious. You must heavily value other things than just the protagonist? I would like to hear, please.
Isaac Parker
*takes your shitty split character/memory concept and amplifies it with 100x*
Sebastian Taylor
>Even something as basic as the first Langrisser had all of that.
>this dishonest bullshit again
Langrisser games are just a series of combat missions. There is no world to explore or interact with, nor can you freely attack npcs.
Easton Flores
He doesn't really have a personality though.
>inb4 but that's the point!
William Gray
>Every party member is a reflection of the Nameless One's condition in some way
the fuck? How is annah in anyway a reflection of anything about TNO? or how about Ignis and Nordom?
Jace Thomas
I can see why you'd think that.
Planescape has been my favorite game since 1999 (Yes, I'm one of the ten thousand that bought it.), but I've never viewed it as a WRPG. To me it's the missing link between WRPGs and JRPGs. As an aside I was also disappointed with it, even though I recognized it as my favorite game at the time too.
In my view, this guy talking about it is a bit of a tosser. Especially since it has exactly two explicit sources of inspiration. Final Fantasy VII and VIII (Although it's of course heavily based on the D&D source material.), meaning that using it to attack JRPGs is rather disrespectful to the creators.
Liam Williams
correct, he has multiple ones
David Barnes
:/
Henry Taylor
I loved infinity engine games. Plancescape just didn't feel videogamey enough. It almost felt like an infinity engine VN.
Colton Young
>Especially since it has exactly two explicit sources of inspiration. Final Fantasy VII and VIII
FF VII and FFVIII are mentioned in the PS:T creidts as a source of inspiration by one dude who was a programmer who implemented all those epic spell animations. Those were obviously inspired by the FF games. That's it.
The thing that makes PS:T stand out is precisely the thing no jrpg has ever done particularly well: integrating story with gameplay. Planescape: Torment uses RPG mechanics to convey personal character growth. In your typical jrpg the RPG systems are only about combat and how efficient you can kill stuff, and the story is delivered entirely through non-interactive cutscenes where characters act without the player's input.. By contrast, in Planescape: Torment there are not really any cutscenes. Even the final boss waits patiently for you to click on him to initiate dialogue. You not only have full control over what your character says, but your stats determine what insights you can glean from the world around you, uncovering more of the mystery of your past lives and becoming a wiser and more introspective person in the process.
This sort of thing is common in wrpgs, but pretty much non-existent in jrpgs.
Daniel Martin
Charles White
Yeah too bad the actual gameplay sucks. That remains the big hurdle.
Leo Flores
Gameover doesn't mean the immortals die. However, if all the party are KO, they may be imprisoned and cannot go on the journey (Seth and Kaim were once imprisoned for a long time in a thousand dream story) They are immortal but not invincible.
Adrian Brown
>Implying he actually played the game
Gavin Allen
>Gameover doesn't mean the immortals die. However, if all the party are KO, they may be imprisoned and cannot go on the journey (Seth and Kaim were once imprisoned for a long time in a thousand dream story) They are immortal but not invincible.
Oh yeah, I'm sure that small rodent in a random encounter will somehow manage to kidnap the unsconscious characters and lock them up in a prison and bar the gate.
Liam Rivera
Nicholas Murphy
>They are immortal but not invincible
user, what do you think predators do after they kill their prey?
Ryan Johnson
>Seriously replying to WRPG-Kun
You niggers never learn, do you?
Asher Phillips
Link
Gabriel Cook
We just like to argue.
Aiden Young
Based
Michael Stewart
Argue about what?
Fried oxygen? Nigga just go play videogames instead of wasting your time with an autist.
Joshua Nguyen
>its a samefag pretends to be a third guy dismissing the argument he's losing because he has no argument
Kayden Rivera
>fried oxygen
>Not baking it
Amerifat go home
Bentley Gomez
WRPGkun doesn't samefag unlike ACFag & Eric, I'll give him that.
Gavin Russell
based
Logan Lewis
There is literally nothing wrong with fried food as long as it's made with proper oil and you don't just stuff yourself with it everyday like a burger would.
Thomas Watson
Terra isn't even the top 5 in her own game lmao
David Lee
I BTFO this guy with xenoblade 2 every thread, it's funny how he can't come up with a single argument against something that isn't even considered the best this gen and admits defeat by crawling away. I hope he keeps posting
Ethan Ross
Based, Raiden's a good contender too.
Matthew Perry
To paraphrase someone earlier in the thread, the fact someone as autistic and inept as himself enjoys WRPGs is a better example of their "quality" than anything I could say.
Matthew Phillips
>user, what do you think predators do after they kill their prey?
Lock them up in prison, according to you just a few posts ago. That was YOUR argument, not mine.
How retarded do you have to be to go to such extreme mental gymnastics to defend your shitty jrpgs? It isn't even necessarily about the way immortality is implemented (although it's certainly indicative of how lazy and creatively bankrupt the developers of Lost Odyssey were), it's about a wider issue that plagues jrpgs: the fact that story basically takes place in a separate dimension from the gameplay.
Planescape: Torment took the premise of an immortal amnesiac to its logical conclusion, exploring the reasons why someone would want to become immortal, and how something as seemingly appealing as immortality can become a hellish purgatory of itself. The result is a game that recontextualizes RPG tropes to tell a unique story, a story that the player participates in instead of watching it through non-interactive cutscenes like you would in a jrpg like Lost Odyssey. Instead of naming your character at the start of the game, you are the Nameless One, and you go in search of your name (and identity). Instead of saving the world, you're saving yourself. Instead of being excited about leveling up and getting stronger, getting higher mental stats to unlock more dialogue feels much more exciting. It's a game that consists entirely of turning RPG tropes on their head, yet still manages to craft a compelling story from those upturned RPG tropes, which is a very impressive accomplishment.
Lost Odyssey meanwhile is Generic JRPG: The game, the immortal amnesiac thing is just shallow window dressing. It's a thoroughly uninspired game.
Do you really not see the difference here?
William Sullivan
well said
Ethan Baker
According to Yea Forums themselves, the best protagonists are these
> 1. Samus Aran (Metroid)
> 2. Solid Snake (Metal Gear Solid 4)
> 3. Link (Ocarina of Time)
> 4. Mario (Super Mario)
> 5. Captain Falcon (F-Zero)
> 6. Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2)
> 7. Claire (Resident Evil 2)
> 8. Tetra (The Wind Waker)
> 9. Otacon (Metal Gear Solid 4)
> 10. Kirby (Return to Dreamland)
> 11. Big Boss (Metal Gear Solid 3)
> 12. Alucard (Castlevania: SOTN)
> 13. Leon S. (Resident Evil 4)
> 14. Tifa (Final Fantasy VII)
> 15. Zelda (Ocarina of Time)
> 16. Cloud (Final Fantasy VII)
John Gonzalez
>Lock them up in prison
user, there's more than one way to dispose of a body after it's unconscious. It's not an all or nothing thing.
Hunter Myers
>> 9. Otacon (Metal Gear Solid 4)
>not the main or even playable
Jayden Gonzalez
not that guy, but you're right LO is a generic game that only xbox fans jerk off to since they had nothing else. It's till better than P:T because the gameplay is mediocre instead of trash
Luke Morales
IMO:
>Great tier: (Good arcs and well-handled character development)
Cloud, Squall, Tidus
>Good Tier: (Character development is good, but could be better)
Lightning, Terra, Zidane
>Okay Tier (Character is intended to be dynamic, but their arc stumbles in actually executing this)
Noctis, Serah, Cecil
>Bad Tier (Did the devs even care about this character?)
Vaan, Luneth
Julian Butler
I don't like LO either, I'm just pointing out he's incorrect about the immortality thing.
Nicholas Hughes
is he really as edgy and angsty as the internet says he is? like, shadow-level edgy?
cause from what i've seen the only vibe i get from him is a serious, "all-business" kind
Michael Russell
CTRL+F Kain
0 results
Ayden Williams
The other guy in Smash who has a big sword.,
Christopher Mitchell
He's only edgy in Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. In the original game he's serious but isn't above goofing and joking around. He even cross dresses
Xavier Wright
Any answer other than Ramza is shit
Julian Scott
He's equally important to the story as Snake
Ryan Morgan
This is a fucking terrible list.
Wyatt Lee
>He even cross dresses
albeit involuntarily but yeah
Noah Miller
>user, there's more than one way to dispose of a body after it's unconscious. It's not an all or nothing thing.
So what is your argument here? Immortals take a few turns to revive, yet in that time:
>it's possible for a small animal to completely devour you
>it's possible for a human enemy to carry your body all the way back to the nearest city and to the prison and lock you up
How fucking deluded do you have to be to be jumping through such elaborate mental hoops?
Mason Sanchez
T. WRPG-Kun
Bentley Bell
Ramza is just a generic do-gooder with zero personality (unless you call unfailingly doing the right thing a personality). I have no idea why anyone would praise him as a great protag.
Joshua Martin
It's possible for fantasy creatures to devour you and it's possible to be tied up and continually knocked unconscious whenever you begin to stir.
Noah Harris
Do the main characters in FF1-5 even have a personality
Cameron Allen
>do-gooder
>just described every FF protag ever
Kayden Williams
Many of them don't start that way
Adrian Cox
Cecil and Bartz have pretty clear personality. Firion is bare bones generic hero guy but it's technically a personality.
Leo Gutierrez
>do-gooder
>just described every FF protag ever
Cloud is part of a terrorist rebel group, Zidane is a thief who kidnaps princesses, etc.
It is possible to add internal conflict to even characters that are pure bastions of goodness, but FFT doesn't do that either. Ramza is just hopelessly bland.
Robert Lopez
How the FUCK does anyone like Tidus, it has nothing to do with HaHAHA he's just a whiny boring bitch with nothing interesting going on other than being good at a shitty minigame.
Dylan Campbell
Like, in tekken?
Leo Brooks
Not interested
Wyatt Murphy
The Onion Kids also have a shared personality as arrogant, disrespectful yet helpful brats. They learn humility and to accept help at the end, so they even have an arc, if you squint really hard. "Let's sleep in the Princess' bed!" is one of the best lines in the franchise.
Ryan Fisher
>is he really as edgy and angsty as the internet says he is?
The only people who see Cloud in that light are people who never played FF7, but know about him from games that either take place after FF7, or are vaguely related to it (which usually rely on players knowing who he is post-FF7 anyways).
This is the protagonist that crossdresses to seduce a mafia don out of information, hops an electric tower on a dolphin, spends a copious amount of time in a giant casino-arcade, goes on a date with his giant black friend, acts as a temporary military commander to protect a giant egg, knows how to snowboard for the sake of fun, rides on a goddamn chocobo for the sake of a race (not including when they're used as transportation), enjoy some time on the beach with his allies while a looming apocalyptic entity is coming, etc., all of this while he's snapping taunts and jokes like regular. He's cocky until the latter parts of Disc 3 where he realizes his entire personality is a lie and he's got to completely start over, but he trusts and cares for his friends and the planet.
Jeremiah Martin
Ethan Ortiz
I doubt we were supposed to take
>aeris dies
>let's go snowboarding!
seriously. Most of the things you describe are just standard jrpg/anime tonal dissonances.
Wyatt Williams
It tastes like grease you disgusting cowfucking brit.
Jaxson Thompson
Based and Stockepilled
Ryder Johnson
This, I'm surprised it took so long
Caleb Wilson
Cecil, Terra (kinda, and even after you can roleplay her to want Kefka's head). Cloud, Before Crisis protagonist not named Nunchaku, Vincent, Squall, Lightning and non-mainline spoiler: ___Lann__ disagree with you.
Evan Cox
Too bad the plot starts falling apart in the middle.
Xavier Reyes
He's right though, the list is fucking terrible.
Hudson Baker
Cloud is hugely overrated but he is also massively iconic.
David Sanders
and not tjhe main brainlet
Hunter Miller
Jokes about the silly belts connecting his clothing together aside, Vyse is fucking fantastic.
>"Impossible is just a word to make people feel better when they give up."
A L P H A
Austin Hall
claude a shit
Joseph Gonzalez
Cloud is redemption
Zack is perseverance
Squall is acceptance
Ramza is duty
Zidane is naivety
Tidus is determination
Vaan is a lovable rapscallion
The others have stories that are much less "lets save the world"
Eli Ramirez
>they all have to be 1 thing to fit my weird arbitary list
unbased
Tyler Martin
Most works have themes. I don't understand why these works wouldn't as the times change. You don't have to agree.
Nathan Davis
Cloud isn't about redemption. Nothing in the game that happens is his fault.
His arc is about being a fractured person due to an alien being inside him/mako poisoning. He overcomes and heals from these obstacles eventually.
Joshua Cox
Aiden Ortiz
Say what you will about Crisis core's placement in 7's universe, but damnit they made Zack the most loveable protagonist in the series by a country mile
Gavin Nelson
I genuinely can't. Great character arc.
Kevin Roberts
I've never seen a worse tier list than this one, congratulations user
Jeremiah Young
Why do people like Gary Stus? Zack and Ramza suck
Christopher Wilson
He wasn't a pill head or someones skank sister. He set out to be great and failed miserably. He moved from "tough merc" to savior of the people he cared about and defeated his largest roadblock.
Isaiah Edwards
I assume this whole thread will be shitposting, so I'll just jump in and say I really like Cloud as he is in FF7 and think he's a really fun character.
Everything post-FF7 is non-canon garbage to me. Especially including the retcons to Zack.
Oliver Johnson
I have to agree with this. Kefka is overrated trash.
Joseph Young
FuSoYa is the one that breaks the mind control on Golbez, user.
Gavin Murphy
>He set out to be great and failed miserably
No he didn't lmao. As a grunt, this overpowered motherfucker pushed himself through a sword and chucked Sephiroth's bitchass straight into the lifestream.
I will never understand why the game tries to convince the audience that Cloud is a "failure" when he's always the most inexplicably OP mary sue in the game.
Jonathan Gutierrez
He never makes soldier and gets his shit pushed in. He doesn't die and gets to live make up for his failure of his hometown/people he care for.
Camden Watson
Noice
Ayden Price
>despite never making soldier, still over overcomes soldier's best as a grunt
>reframing simple vengeance arc as a "redemption" arc
I hate to be this kind of faggot, but:
Redemption: the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
Golbez from IV has a "redemption" arc. Cloud does not.
Matthew Reyes
Oliver Brown
the only protags with a redemption arc are cecil and maybe lightning
Nathan Gonzalez
He set out to prove himself by becoming SOLDIER, but fails to get into the program and ends up a grunt. That sounds like a failure to me.
Jonathan Hill
This isn't the end of evangelion. Cloud can't save his town and the people he cares about. At the end he does. There is no applause. He just does it by facing sephiroth. He averts it all. He protects all.
Leo James
Zack Fair
Hunter Cooper
And Dissidia.
And XIV.
Bentley Baker
>Cloud can't save his town and the people he cares about. At the end he does
That is not REDEMPTION. IIRC, when Cloud comes into Nibelheim, the town is already ablaze and Sephiroth is in the reactor. Are you implying his grave "sin" that requires redeeming is simply not being an omniscient superhuman?
Redemption is about seeing the error of your sinful ways and becoming a better person. Again, Golbez has this kind of arc. Cloud does not. By your logic, every single fucking VENGEANCE arc in existence can be called a "redemption" arc.
Asher Cooper
How rent free seething do you possibly have to be to make an image like this.
Gavin Anderson
Fuck dude, he joins the group that does this, he doesn't want to do this, bad shit happens, he tries to fix this, bad shit happens, he saves the world.
Olly from GOT is vengeance john wick is vengeance, fuck, die hard is vengeance.
Cloud is a weak, coward, and stops being one. He grows, he redeems himself
Henry Mitchell
>Frank West
Thank you anons have a good night!
Matthew Ortiz
>Cloud is a weak, coward, and stops being one.
How many times do I have to repeat the actual events of the game's plot, you absolute fucking retard?
When his city is on fire, he charges up to the reactor to face Sephiroth even though he's a little shitty grunt. HOW is this cowardly, you fucking dumbshit? Cloud is even able to overcome the most powerful soldier known to man and throw his ass into the lifestream. HOW is this weak, you autistic waste of space? You also have no understanding of the word "redemption"
Fucking kill yourself, retard.
Noah Russell
Dude, its just a game, don't be angry
Dominic Cook
I'm not angry at the game. I'm angry at the stupidity of the person who is replying to me.
Christian King
Cecil is a way better example of redemption than Cloud.
Carson Ross
Good write up user
Luke Butler
You scream vengeance, I scream redemption.
I say he failed his goal, you say he faced it. We still had a game afterwards that explained his identity stealing and realization that he isn't the person he portrayed himself as. He was scouped up as tifa remembered him. He became a clone lackey, he got better, he became a wheelchair dude, he got better. He saved the planet. He was lost and he was found.We don't have to hate cloud to realize he got better.
Jose Lopez
>still unable to understand what the word redemption means
I give up. You're hopelessly retarded
Easton Cox
a literal vegetable
Adrian Torres
you talk like a fag and your shit’s all retarded
Austin Nelson
>Cloud doesn't have to help child molesters to say maybe I shouldn't help molest children to redeem himself.
You can fuck up and not know it.
Henry Gonzalez
The fact Zidane has fucked this autists headspace up so much he made this is further proof that he is superior
Kayden Ross
>Name a better protag.
Wait no longer
In the same series: Pick any other than Lightning
Outside of the series: Most protagonists to ever exist including self insert weebshit VN protags.
Nolan Ward
meme fag. Why is he worse than every other protag? Than Vaan or the I-III protags? Actually lmao, why is he better than Lightning? Articulate this with examples from the games, not memes.
Daniel Perry
>In the same series: Pick any other than Lightning
Terra, Cecil, and Zidane are all better than Cloud.
Cloud, is in turn better than Noctis, Lighting, Vann, and Squall,
Lucas Wright
Eh, I was about to say Big Boss, but he was kind of cheapened by MGSV, so...yeah, I can't. He's the only video game protagonist I've stayed interested in and enjoyed from start to finish of the game he's part of, alongside the rest of the cast, who are also great.
I'm both incredibly hyped for and terrified of the Remake. It has the most potential to do the character justice compared to the Compilation, but also has the most potential to damage his legacy.
Tyler Gutierrez
FF7 remake is episodic, I am already concerned.
At least it' a remake so we know that the story won't be an unfinished mess, like XV
Zachary Reyes
>relatable
speak for yourself, autist.
Jace Lewis
Isaac Wilson
Terra is boring but I can see someone liking her even if I don't. Cecil's just two dimensional white bread, it's unacceptable to rank him higher than most people after FFIV. I like Zidane so that's fine
Jace Stewart
>me mad
>god piss me off
>me kill god
>kratos smash
brilliant character design
Levi Martin
better than the pussy he became in the reboot.
Landon Powell
Estelle
Nathaniel Phillips
Gavin Gomez
>bland
>no personality
>muh joshua
>daddy issues
>completely overshadowed by kloe