I'm here for the munneh

Here are some hard truths about the game:
Dutch was right.
Arthur is the better protagonist.
Epilogue was bad.
Execution of the story was bad but the concepts and characters were great.
Best open world design ever.
Bad mission structure.
Horrible pacing.

>Dutch was right.
Dutch was a megalomaniac with a messiah complex and was wrong about nearly everything
>Arthur is the better protagonist.
Sure
>Epilogue was bad.
Agreed
>Execution of the story was bad but the concepts and characters were great.
I thought it was mostly okay
>Best open world design ever.
It's up there
>Bad mission structure.
It's just standard rockstar structure
>Horrible pacing.
In parts I guess

Dutch was in the right most of the time except when Micah got to him at the end because no one else was supporting him.
Execution of story was bad because so many great characters were under-utilized and interpersonal relationships are often shallowly portrayed.
Camp aspect of the game was amazing though.

It's the only look that fits his voice.

Dutch was wrong all the time though and only made himself appear confident and measured to keep stringing everyone along, he hadn't had an actual plan since Blackwater

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He did have an actual plan, he explains it to Arthur several times and it makes sense. Where was he wrong?

"We need to make money and then we'll keep going east but then we'll go back out west uhhh actually we're gonna go to Tahiti or maybe Australia" isn't a plan

>Camp aspect of the game was amazing though.
>Severely limits player movement for no reason other than to waste your time
>Need to save
>Forced mission out of nowhere

The portable camp was fine but the fact you needed to manually watch every animation for every arrow and bullet crafted was buttfucking retarded and probably the stupidest thing Rockstar has ever done next "very slowly trot these annoying protestors to the center of town and beat up anyone that disagrees with them".

I agree on most of that except
>Epilogue was bad
It was fan-service, and they handled it pretty well. My only gripe is the boring ranch missions.
>Execution of the story was bad
It was perfect, except for maybe the ending was a bit rushed. Chapter 6 tried to cram too much story into too little time
>Bad mission structure
>Horrible pacing
Yes there is too much downtime while doing a lot of missions, and too much riding. A better fast travel system could've helped a lot with the pacing.
They should've just kept the fast travel from improv camp that was in RDR1, or at least allowed you to fast travel to camp from anywhere.

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>and beat up anyone that disagrees with them
You don't do that though

Yes you fucking do. The entire mission consists of you defending the protestor and her husband from evil mean white men.

You can fuck right off with your bullshit mental gymnastics. Fuck you and everyone like you. Politically charged virtue signaling garbage isn't fucking gameplay. DIE. FUCKING KILL YOURSELF.

>It was fan-service, and they handled it pretty well. My only gripe is the boring ranch missions.
My problem with the epilogue is that it goes on long enough for all the tension and drama from the main story to completely deflate and then out of nowhere Sadie says she found Micah and I'm supposed to feel just as engaged and full of vengeance as I was five hours ago when Arthur died despite the whole epilogue doing everything it could to distance itself from the main story

Why aren't you fags posting your Arthurs

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How is it not a real plan? They couldn't make it west because of the feds hunting them, they did need the money, and the exact place they settled didn't matter, only that it was free of governmental influence hunting them and they could live free and independently. How does that not make sense?

No you don't, you drive the feminists up in front of the Rhodes bank and the plantation kid pulls you aside and you fucking leave before anything happens. Chill the fuck out you absolute spastic

Yeah I can see that, it was a bit too long and dragged out, hence why I think they easily could've cut down the ranching missions.
Still though like I said it was basically pure fan-service.
It could've also been better had they talked a bit more about Arthur, he was only called back to a couple times.

It was bad because most of the shit you do isn't interesting at all. I didn't need to see the Marston ranch being built, how John became a rancher, etc. etc. That's shit you just show already being done, let the viewer fill in the blanks. Then hunting down Micah is only one short mission. The epilogue should've been Sadie and Charles showing up to the ranch with info on Micah and John going with them to kill him. It being 8 full years later also makes little sense to me.

It would have been better if John spent the epilogue actively trying to hunt Micah and Dutch down, but what we got made the final mission just feel like it was completely out of nowhere with no buildup

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Exactly

>It being 8 full years later also makes little sense to me.
This also felt really weird to me, it's been literal years and John's only made it to Strawberry?

>there is no answer to this from anti-Dutch fags
Dutch was right and R* fucked up in portraying him as the villain

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Yeah, 8 fucking years and they're still just wandering from place to place and he only has the ranch for 4 years before he gets axed, it's so dumb. Ranch should've happened at max 2 years after the events of RDR2

The best part of the game was when Milton shows up at Clemens Point and Dutch tries get philosophical with him and Milton slaps him down like a child immediately

I agree, 100%, the last mission did kinda come outta nowhere. There should've at least been a confrontation with Micah in Blackwater when he was back for the money.
>I didn't need to see the Marston ranch being built, how John became a rancher, etc. etc
I kinda half agree, I did honestly enjoy seeing how the Beecher's Hope ranch came to be. But they could've cut down on some of the more boring missions and included some that pertained to the Micah encounter in the last mission.
I think Rockstar's thinking was that they really wanted to show how John was bent on going straight with his life, only to highlight how he fucked that all up by going for revenge on Micah- calling back to Arthur saying multiple times throughout the game that "revenge is a fool's errand"

I thought Dutch came off as more the alpha in that situation, what part are you thinking of?

Not even close, he makes some trite marxist comment about greed and Milton immediately tells him he's full of a shit and a murdering savage, at which point Dutch has to hide behind the gang because he's too dumbfounded by an intellectual superior to even try to respond

Sounds like a very biased interpretation of the scene. I remember Milton trying to get the gang to leave because he only wanted Dutch and then being completely surprised by their loyalty. Dutch is also very dismissive to Milton throughout the encounter.

Also, Milton is clearly portrayed as a hypocrite himself since even his first encounter. He talks about savages angrily but he obviously enjoys violence so long as it's state sanctiones

>marxist
Lmao, anyone who interprets Dutch as a proto-marxist should be executed

Who /basicarthur/ here? It has a unique charm to it that other arthur's just don't have for me.

Dutch isn't dismissive at all, he glares daggers at Milton for daring to rebut his little remark about human greed and then shifts gears immediately to "heh my gang will protect me" instead of trying to further his point

They could have easily established John going straight with his life with implication, they didn't need to display every excruciating detail

>This land ain't no such thing as civilized, it's man so in love with greed that he has forgotten himself and found only appetites
Sure bud

>Dutch isn't dismissive
Yes he is lol. He begins the encounter looking away from Milton at the water and responds to him with that "Agent Moron" comment while Milton tries to get his attention
Not furthering his point is also a dismissive act, he's denying Milton a seat at the table dialogue wise

I think it's more than Milton enjoys poetic justice, the first time we see him in the game he says "I enjoy society, Mr Morgan, flaws and all. You people venerate savagery, and you will die savagely"

How is that Marxist? Are you the type of dude who thinks that if you're opposed to consumerism in any way whatsoever you're immediately a Communist? I forgot the part where Dutch talks about how the workers should seize the means of production lmao

Agreed user
Arthur isn't some dandy who dresses up and grooms his mustache.

>Not furthering his point is also a dismissive act, he's denying Milton a seat at the table dialogue wise
Or he's fully aware that Milton is completely right about him being not much more than a delusional killer with a silver tongue, and shifts gears so nobody in the gang thinks about that too much

Post Arthurs.

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Sure, but by proxy he enjoys savagely killing people which makes him a hypocrite. He had no issues firing on a house with a 4 year old inside

I tried to make mine look like SRV.

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nice

how basic

Based.

You seem to be thinking that the scene was some kind of debate between Milton and Dutch and that Dutch tacitly lost by not continuing. That's not what it was, it was a social dominance type encounter. Dutch's point wasn't even for Milton, it was for the gang, so they could see that their fearless leader wasn't going to be shaken even by a federal agent strolling into camp. Meanwhile, Milton's play was to unnerve the gang into giving Dutch up by demonstrating that he knew where they were and had no issues just strolling in. It fails, which is why he's seething at the very end.
It wasn't a formal debate

>Best open world design ever
lol what? How? Parts of the map are locked by unkillable hit squads for no reason.

you trying to get crazy with ese?
I seen you're name in our ledger

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He dead.

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10/10, would pass as an outsidah

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That was dumb, but how alive the open world feels is excellent. I've never played another game with such a developed open world

The Pinkertons and Milton are delusional killers as well. They're "bringing civilisation" via the savagery they claim to hate. But because they lie, kidnap, hold hostage, kill, steal, and torture with a badge on, they believe they're better.

>open ledger
>full page and a half of hundreds of dollars worth of shit I threw in
>and then like two dead rats and a piece of bread hosea threw in the box
>get shit on for not contributing enough

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This. It's also the message of the first RDR, that the feds are really just thugs themselves

10/10

my favorite is uncles contributions of empty bottles

>Say Arthur, how 'bout singin us a song?
>A shong eh? Hmm... okay, I think I got one yall know
>Splendid! Take her away!

>Ooooooo mister oh mister, oh sorry I mean miss
>Excuse my misgenderin', this sorta ignorance ain't bliss
>With your hormonal therapy, all the transphobes may laugh
>But there ain't nothin funny bout cuttin your willie in half

>I walked to my sons room, caught him wearin a dress
>With a tear in his eye, he said "dad I must confess"
>I said "Son, it's okay ferya to dress in skirts and night gowns,
>In fact it's all my fault fer not askin fer yer pronouns"

>Yes bigots and fascists deserved a good bash
>I'll smash their heads open like a dilated gash
>cause if there's one thing I hate, one thing I find wrong
>is shitlords who dont know a woman can have beard and a dong

Really Rockstar? A bit heavy handed, no?

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THE RING DANG DOO
NOW WHAT IS THAT

The pinkertons do all that to wanted dangerous criminals, which is better than what Dutch's gang does by a pretty objective measure

relax /pol/ boy.

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In the first game it might have made a bit more sense but in the second you get to see firsthand the kind of horrific shit Dutch's gang does, slaughtering entire towns full of innocent people and destroying lives and livelihoods everywhere they go, and the feds are going to extreme lengths to stop them

most of the time the gang doesn't intentionally hurt the poor. they go after the rich.

Really? I seem to remember them kidnapping and holding hostage Jack in the first game and I have no doubt they'd dismember and kill him if John didn't comply.
And even if they did do that strictly to dangerous criminals (they don't) their methods are still just as savage. They feel no need or want to hold themselves to a higher standard. They're brutal thugs that get regular paychecks.

Strauss alone shows that they have zero problem going after the poor

but strauss is an exception to the rule and eventually gets kicked out because his method of making ends meet is unconscionable usury.

Was it kino?

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Add to that when they attacked John's farm at the end they could have easily killed Jack and Abigail in the process but they didn't care. There was no attempt to ensure their safety before they opened fire.

Unconscionable usury only in Arthur's eyes, he's the only one who finds it distasteful enough to ever do anything about it and that's only after he's confronted by his own mortality and actively trying to right his life's wrongs. Nobody else ever had an issue with it, or if they did they didn't care enough to ever say or do anything about it

Probably the best mission in the game besides American Venom. Felt like the game started slowly going downhill after that one though.

Aye Arthur laments frequently how much their gang has changed and how at one point they actually used to help people but now everything they do nowadays is for the survival of the gang.

absolutely

Wow where is rami when you need him?

no but it will be on pc

>pls help me with thing sir
>nah that ain't my business
>money
>ok
I don't know how many times this happens but it made me laugh every time

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Makes perfect sense though, no? People griped about the same thing in GTA IV, why the fuck would the criminal protagonist help strangers if there wasn't a cash incentive?

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Because criminals aren't always bad people. A lot of them still have their own code of conduct. So, while they may do bad things, it doesn't mean they're completely selfish and incapable of feeling empathy

Exactly, hence why both Niko and Arthur do certain things for certain people strictly out of kindness and not just for a paycheck. I can't think of any other Rockstar protag that does this except for Max Payne in 3, but then again he really isn't a Rockstar protagonist.

Just to clarify, John also does this.

I believe that Dutch posting will still remain even if and when RD3 comes out, and you know why? Because I have TIME and FAITH!

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>innocent people
They literally only fight people who are trying to kill them, with the exception of Dutch killing that one girl aboard the Blackwater Ferry.
Neither side is in the right which is partially Rockstar's point. The truest thing in the game is probably the inscription on Calloway's gun.

Is Dutch /ourguy/?

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I enjoy how you can tell if the creator of a Dutch maymay is a brainlet or not by whether they spell "mangoes" correctly

The Pinkertons have throughout the course of the games:
>threatened a man with descriptions of how they tortuously killed his comrade in front of a toddler
>opened fire with a fucking gatling gun on a house full of women and that same toddler all because of their autistic need to get Dutch
>kidnapped a woman
>opened fire again on a camp full of women and innocents
>picked up a man who was associated with the gang but never robbed or killed anyone and killed him in custody
>kidnapped a mother and her son in order to pressure a man into hunting down and killing his own comrades
>went back on their deal and opened fire on a ranch with that same mother and son inside
They're no better than the gang which again is R*'s point

The giant firefights in which dozens of civilians die wouldnt have happened if the gang hadnt been there
It doesnt matter that the people were trying to kill them

How else do people spell mangoes?

Reminder that the Pinkertons sued R* for their portrayal in RDR2.

Yeah it was fucking great, that ghostly wail in the music when you approach the mansion is amazing
There are a lot of good ones I thought. The one where you raid the Cornwall Oil Refinery is up there for me and was a nice treat in Chapter 6. As annoying as Guarma is narratively, all of its missions are fun as fuck as well. Not to mention Pouring Forth Oil, Banking, the Old American Art, robbing the bank in Valentine, etc.
I didn't even think American Venom was that great honestly

>its wrong to not help a random person if they don't pay you
The fuck?

>in which dozens of civilians die
What?

Wait, what? I didn't even know Pinkertons were a real thing, since I'm not an American. I'm not gonna lie, it's kinda scummy of Rockstar to use a real life organization and portray it however they want. There's a distinction between their other factions and their real life counterparts, like the FIB/FBI. FIB is just a silly, parodied version of FBI and everything was cool. But to use a real life faction in a serious manner in a serious videogame and to portray them as they have is kinda too much

Probably fair, R* honestly should have used a made up name with similar qualities to the Pinkertons.

I never said it's wrong, I just said that even criminals can have empathy and help people out just because.

I agree it's a little much. Pinkertons aren't super well known though, I doubt many non-history buffs would know of them outside of RDR2.

IRL Pinkertons were faggots back in the days and still are.

This. Anyone who thinks that it's some kind of debate team scenario is autistic and probably thinks that you "win" confrontations in real life by making more logical points lol

R* were pretty conservative with how they were portrayed. Real life Pinkertons were far worse than what's depicted in RDR2.

Even if this is true the other parties are therefore equally if not more responsible for the giant firefights. Valentine one for example was started by Cornwall. The one in Rhodes was started by the Grays.

i agree that would be cool if it didn't look like it was painted on his lip with shoe polish

>Little boy Jack has an obviously-grown-woman-trying-too-hard-to-be-a-kid voice
>Few years go by
>Has his grown man's "WORK YA DAMN NAG" voice as a preteen
What are they feeding that child

>Dutch killing that one girl
Dutch kills a lot of women. It's kind of his thing.

>It was perfect, except for maybe the ending was a bit rushed. Chapter 6 tried to cram too much story into too little time

agree, the native shit was way too late, if they wanted to go that route they needed to start earlier. it was overwhelming at first, "oh wow, another subplot? okay then"

He only kills three as far as we know of, and that Cuban woman completely deserved it

Spaghetti

This, they should have either dropped the native subplot or they should have made that Chapter 5 instead of Guarma. Chapter 6 should have been entirely devoted to the fallout in the gang, the Native subplot made it incredibly confused

Look what social politics are doing to you. Please talk to somebody.

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I always thought 19 year old Jack was a badass and was confused why everyone seemed to hate him

BOAH

>that Cuban woman completely deserved it

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>you drive the feminists up in front of the Rhodes bank and the plantation kid pulls you aside and you fucking leave before anything happens

So why was it in the game? The "mission" is literally being forced to slow crawl through town while listening to suffragettes then stop, stand around, then get on a horse for 1 minute then mission over. Why is it in the game?

>It was fan-service, and they handled it pretty well. My only gripe is the boring ranch missions.
The boring ranch missions are like 90% of the epilogue though, so your only gripe is most of the epilogue. It has a bunch of really weird and poor narrative choices the biggest one being the odd choice to set in 8 years in the future instead of 1-3 years after the incident.
>It was perfect, except for maybe the ending was a bit rushed. Chapter 6 tried to cram too much story into too little time
It was pretty bad (exectution wise) m8
Chapter 1 is a on rails tutorial chapter alongside the first half of chapter 2
No Chapter is as long as it should be except 6
Chapter 5 is completely unnecessary
Pacing is wonky and all over the place and they don't flesh out their characters or interpersonal relationships well because they waste time on subplots and pointless shit, and R* is also horrible at writing the fallout after a character's death
>Yes there is too much downtime while doing a lot of missions, and too much riding. A better fast travel system could've helped a lot with the pacing.
This isn't even my issue with the pacing, I'm fine with the riding. By pacing I mean the literal pacing of the narrative.

She demanded more money than originally set upon, and then pulled a knife. Dutch had no more to give, so it was obvious he'd either kill her or she'd blow their cover. Besides, why shouldn't Dutch kill her? She had the gall to try and kick a man when he's down. She deserved everything she got and more.

It's cause he's not likeable and charismatic as John was

She demanded more money and pulled a knife on Dutch. She was basically trying to rob them. What the fuck was Dutch supposed to do in that situation? If someone pulls a knife on you, you fucking kill them lmao. Was he supposed to go
>Okay then I guess I totally trust you! Here's more money! I will now turn my back on you in complete trust and hope you don't stab me or my adopted son or report us to the authorities! I will also ignore that you just tacitly threatened to kill me!
I was fucking baffled when Arthur was appalled at that, he had personally killed people for less

>RDR2 is feminis-

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Because she I N S I S T E D on more money

I mean he doesn't have much of a chance to be, the story is over when you're playing as him

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yup this. Hate against Jack is unjustified.

>Make deal
>Break deal
>Get mangoed

O O P S

Yeah and that's why people didn't like him. He could have been fine if he had more time.

>The boring ranch missions are like 90% of the epilogue though
You're exaggerating big time

b-but Yea Forums said this game is sjw!!

>I was fucking baffled when Arthur was appalled at that, he had personally killed people for less
there are so many little things like this in the game that drive me up a wall. This game could have been a masterpiece, but I think it's lazily/carelessly written moments like this that set the whole game back. Pulls me right out of the experience.

Yeah fair enough I might be. They're more than half though. My point is that the overwhelming majority of the epilogue is shit that is not interesting at all, it only gets interesting when you start hunting Micah and at that point I was pretty tuned out and just wanted the fucking game to be over, and I love RDR.

Are we just gonna acknowledge that she said "men are such judgmental pricks"? Pretty misandrist and disgusting, totally deserving of being eaten by an alligator

I'm in the minority I know but I liked the ranching stuff in RDR and RDR2. It was pleasant.

Like I already said multiple times, it was basically intended to be fan-service. It's at least better than the single side-mission we got as Jack in 1, even though it was damn good

Why were any of the missions in the game, numbnuts? Why do you steal sheep when you don't even get to sell them? Why do you go fish when you don't need to eat them? Why do you go hunt a bear when it's scripted to escape?

I could hold your hand, and explain literally any design decision they made in this game, but I am not being paid to coddle retards. But I will give you this simple tip: the missions are to get you involved in the setting and with the characters. That is the #1 priority and purpose of every single mission on this game. Not an agenda, not even you having fun, because yeah, a lot of them are not fun at all.

My opinion exactly. The whole nature of Arthur's fallout with Dutch was poorly written. There are a few things in the story and the gameplay that if only they were fixed would result in a 10/10 masterpiece. But unfortunately R* is a very talented developer with a horrible design philosophy.

It was a nice parallel to the violent, murdering way of life. It was comfy as fuck

Just because its fan-service doesn't mean that it's good, I'm unsure as to what I'm even supposed to make of that point.
>It's at least better than the single side-mission we got as Jack in 1
I disagree.

Rockstars boner for "realism" makes half of the game a fucking chore.

I like it in RDR but not in RDR2, not exactly sure why. Maybe it has to do with it being more narratively appropriate in RDR.

Anyone who watched a Billy the Kid movie would know exactly who the Pinkertons were, but not a lot of people would know they still exist

Git gud.

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>I disagree.
Well then I guess we just agree to disagree

See, I loved the ranch missions.
After all the fucking depression and slow degradation that is Arthur's arc in chapter 6, just doing some comfy ranch chores as John was a breath of fresh air. It's the same way I loved the ranch missions in RDR1. Plus, it doesn't take too long before the violence of his previous life catches up with him. Fucking up the Laramie boys at the ranch was goddamn kino.

Sure
I feel like its a dramatic tone shift that forfeits all the momentum of the drama with Micah and Dutch. In RDR though it is a comfy switch and it feels both earned and like the calm before the inevitable storm.
I agree John killing the Laramie boys was pretty kino

not even real dialogue u spaz

dutch could've knocked out the cuban woman rather than kill her.

Cuban woman deserved to die, if it was a young strapping Cuban lad who pulled the knife Arthur wouldn't even have thought twice. He was in the wrong on that one and to be honest he was in the wrong most of the time when he was highly critical of Dutch.

Dutch could have used all the money I got from finding gold ingots.

We both know Arthur would have bitched one way or another even if Dutch just knocked the woman out.

lol, Dutch had it all wrong. He should've been in the treasure hunting busines

I can understand why you'd think that, but frankly the drama came to a climax when Arthur died. Yeah, they escaped, but the entire plot thread of "Micah is pulling wool over Dutch's eyes" is wrapped up right there and then. It thematically makes sense to jump ahead to John actually claiming a life for himself, because that's really what Arthur was trying to help him do throughout Chapter 6.
John just mops up the remains of it during American Venom. And technically, Abigail was right, he didn't really NEED to go kill Micah. Hell, Dutch was going to finish that job for him (not that John knew that). But Arthur was his brother, and he wasn't going to let Charles and Sadie go after him by themselves.

i think hes mad dutch spends no time trying to deescalate the situation. he's scared dutch has no problem jumping to violence.

Even for how good of a job they did with disguising it with Arthur, "ludonarrative dissonance" will always be a thing in video games, especially Rockstar's games.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, just something that's always gonna happen in games.

working at RSG was the worst experience of my life and ruined my marriage. fuck this game

> but frankly the drama came to a climax when Arthur died
Yes it did, but there is such a thing as falling action user. You don't just jump right to 0 after the climax. RDR actually does this excellently, the scenes after John's death are Ross looking smug, Abigail and Jack returning to the body and reacting, Jack burying his mom. Things are still tense, as they should be, even as the game scales down and back. RDR2 fails to do this effectively.
> It thematically makes sense to jump ahead to John actually claiming a life for himself, because that's really what Arthur was trying to help him do throughout Chapter 6.
Not really, no. This would be like saying it makes sense to jump to Jack sitting in an armchair writing a book because that's what John wanted. You don't determine a narrative off of the whims of your characters, that's ridiculous.
>, Dutch was going to finish that job for him (not that John knew that)
Debatable. And John needed to kill Micah for reasons that Abigail was incapable of understanding, as you said Arthur was his brother.

This is the equivalent of using bread bait

lmfao, what happened?

Ludonarrative dissonance is something that could have been mitigated much more than it was. I can forgive it when you're killing nearly a hundred people in a random shootout with Micah, not so much when scripted plot events happen that actively leave narrative holes.

It isn’t a real plan because every thing they did was on the fly. Escaping West Elizabeth was on the fly. Killing ODriscolls on the fly. Robbing Valentin on the fly. Robbing Braithwaites on the fly. Robbing a poker game in Saint Denis despite the whole town knowing they’re fucking outlaws. It goes on and on. Any decision that was made on the fly was an objectively bad decision. You want to suck Daddy Dutch cock have at it. The lesson to the story was everyone is a moron and until you realize it you’re stuck following morons.

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I was obsessed with designing a perfect version of horse testicles... all I did was code day and night, trying to get the shrinkage animation and the texture of the sack to be the best they could be.
One day I came home and Tyrone was plowing my wife, right there on the couch.
This is Dan Houser's fault.

Which again is completely bizarre seeing as Arthur himself makes no attempt to avoid violence in several of his own encounters in the game, and they're in an outlaw gang. The whole game is basically Arthur trying to pretend they're not outlaws and then being surprised when Dutch does outlaw shit. From Chapter 5 onward Arthur's criticisms are increasingly disconnected from reality.

I just remembered fanfiction exists and now I kind of want to see what fanfiction of RDR2 is like. I'm gonna go look

>It isn’t a real plan because every thing they did was on the fly.
This is retarded. You're saying that a plan isn't a real plan unless everything is planned to meticulus detail? In every plan you have to eventually adapt to changing circumstances. The general plan Dutch had was solid and it was their best shot, they were up against overwhelming odds which is something Arthur refused to realize.
>Robbing Valentin on the fly.
This was actually planned
>ny decision that was made on the fly was an objectively bad decision.
This isn't even true lol
>ou want to suck Daddy Dutch cock have at it. The lesson to the story was everyone is a moron and until you realize it you’re stuck following morons.
Not even close to the "lesson" if you're the kind of guy who likes to hunt for "lessons" in stories.

arthur sees himself as the necessary muscle of the gang. he gets his hands dirty so that dutch doesnt have to. he has been a part of the gang since adolescence and dutch is a surrogate father figure who likely taught arthur most of his values. arthur's exasperation is the realization that his daddy is no longer the good guy he remembers. the entire game he is worried about this and keeps trying to deny this truth. its when he has no choice but to see it that the denial is broken.

Share. I got a case of bile fascination right now.

worked on a 3 person team with mandatory 80+ hour weeks. had to be there at my desk in holidays and weekends, even if i had taken action on every project i could pending review. two team leads were stoned constantly and completely inexperienced as managers. spent the last 6 months correcting the mistakes of a self-obsessed woman who was at lunch more often than she was at her desk. one of those teams where a lifer cannot relinquish control or delegate, so everything you do ends up getting thrown out or dismissed. i have no work to show for nearly two years. my wife left me because she couldn't handle the anger i would bring home. finally quit to keep from a full on breakdown. it's like being a salaryman in the service of two maniacal hooligans and the whole "culture of fear" meme is fairly accurate

>arthur sees himself as the necessary muscle of the gang. he gets his hands dirty so that dutch doesnt have to.
Dutch joins him on violent escapades in the earliest missions of the game wherein Arthur has no complaints except to ensure Dutch's safety and everyone else's though.
>arthur's exasperation is the realization that his daddy is no longer the good guy he remembers
You're on the money here, but Arthur is ultimately in the wrong because he fails to realize that Dutch is just a human and that Arthur's own disloyalty is what ultimately broke him. It does make sense though because at some points in the game it seems like Arthur is upset that Dutch isn't swooping in to take care of everything with a magic wand, he blames shit on him that isn't anywhere close to being his fault.

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>RDR did this excellently
You're incorrect because the falling action isn't Jack going after Ross, it's John returning to the ranch and eventually dying. Going after Dutch was the climax of the story.
Both Jack's section and John's section are considered epilogues in the game, but one is a hell of a lot shorter than the other. Jack's section is a true epilogue in the sense that if it were a book, it'd be a single chapter, John's is more equivalent to the falling action after a climax, since there are still multiple chapters to go until the end.
>And John needed to kill Micah for reasons that Abigail was incapable of understanding, as you said Arthur was his brother.
It's not that Abigail didn't understand, she also wanted that fucker dead, but she also wanted John to be alive and with his family moreso than she wanted revenge, which in truth is a pretty admirable trait. Honor is nice and all, but had John died in the attempt he would have left Jack fatherless and Abigail in charge of a farm she couldn't run by herself.

Eh, just looks like a bunch of self-inserts and donut steels

There's a mission where Arthur joins Dutch in murdering an entire family and then burning their home down two chapters before this with no complaints.

NDA'd out the yinyang, i'm afraid. sorry to derail the thread. pretty sore about it, i guess.

Sure. Take chances on a disgustingly greedy and aggressive old crow, when you're about to save your friend and escape from the island. Put yourself and your own on the line because of some random old woman that could have woken up and fucked your shit up entirely.

Yeah right, you could easily post proof while blurring out the important parts. You're just bullshitting

>Arthur's disloyalty is what ultimately broke him
Dutch was broken before Arthur was showing any mutinous behavior. Hosea dying definitely threw Dutch over the edge.

Gross.

>You're incorrect because the falling action isn't Jack going after Ross, it's John returning to the ranch and eventually dying.
If you take John's death to be the relative climax then I'm correct, but in an absolute sense yes Dutch dying was the climax of the story. John's death was a "local climax" if you're a math guy.
>Both Jack's section and John's section are considered epilogues in the game, but one is a hell of a lot shorter than the other. Jack's section is a true epilogue in the sense that if it were a book, it'd be a single chapter, John's is more equivalent to the falling action after a climax, since there are still multiple chapters to go until the end.
Yes and I'm saying that the falling action isn't paced well. Which is really no surprise seeing as the entire game has pacing issues.
>It's not that Abigail didn't understand
If she fully understood she wouldn't have tried to stop John. Men understand why shit like this simply has to be done, women do not, which is just part of our separate roles.
>which in truth is a pretty admirable trait
It is admirable but its an admirable feminine trait. Of course John couldn't agree with her but in a sense they were both right.

I find the story about Tyrone and horse testicles to be more believable

No it didn't, although that was one of the biggest straws. What put Dutch really over the edge was his perception that Arthur had betrayed him. Even in some early Chapter 6 scenes he resists some of Micah's suggestions. It's when he's fully convinced that Arthur turned on him that there's really no going back.

I just want Online clothes in single player

>TFW online is already dead
What went wrong?

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Who'd win in a fist fight: healthy Arthur or Charles

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Charles

Healthy Arthur, dude is a murdermachine. He takes on Tommy solo, Anders alone, beats that tall dumb guy in the circus mission and at several points he fights off multiple people at once.

>If she fully understood she wouldn't have tried to stop John. Men understand why shit like this simply has to be done, women do not, which is just part of our separate roles.
That's such bullshit dude. John didn't HAVE to do shit, but he went out of his own sense of debt to Arthur and because Charles and Sadie were going with or without him. But had they not gone to him, or had Sadie not gotten wind of Micah, John would have just continued living his life. Not to mention Sadie literally being the person to want to go the hardest after Micah shoots your gender theory full of holes.
John went, it wasn't necessarily wrong, but it was fucking stupid, both in the short term of him possibly dying and leaving Abigail to deal with the farm and the bank, and the long term of Ross eventually finding out where he was living because of the shootout on the mountain.

apart from a few business cards and some gifts from GTA crews, everything I have from then is just merch anyway. they gave us the collector's box for launch and the R* pendleton for christmas. there are lots of happy people there, and it's by no means a bad company to work for. i just worked on a particular team where management was fucked and we had a bunch of people walk shortly after the delay. the workload became untenable. like i said, just being bitter. the experience just really made it hard to enjoy the game once it released

>insist

>rides into St.Denis for the first time
>all dirty, wearing snake and bison
>get a shave for the first time
>become all uppity, dress in nice clothes and just stroll the streets in the nice EL lighting.
>shoot six kids in a back-alley dual wielding two sawed of shotguns with slugs
>get 30 in bounty

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So you let it make you so angry every day that your wife couldn't stand being around you? Don't you know not to bring your stress home from work with you?
Are you sure there wasn't a Tyrone involved?

Arthur was easily the most handsome vidya character of 2018

>That's such bullshit dude. John didn't HAVE to do shit
No it isn't. As you said, Arthur was his brother. It's both John's duty and a testament of his love for Arthur that he hunts down the person who did it.
> Not to mention Sadie literally being the person to want to go the hardest after Micah shoots your gender theory full of holes.
Dude its a story. Sadie takes on more of a masculine role within RDR2 which is the point of her character. And obviously I'm not going to try and make sweeping absolute statements, there are plenty of feminine men and there are some masculine women.
>but it was fucking stupid
From a robotic logistical understanding of life yeah, it was. But he had to do it and if he didn't he would have been less of a man desu, you can agree or disagree but imagine John going
>Nah guys, I have a family now. Go get Micah on your own. Good luck.

is there a pervasive drug culture?

Liquor never dulled a good man's senses

Shit, this was meant for

Where is the "I am forgotten" faggot now?

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But that is my point, the choice was practically forced; Charles and Sadie were going, and John knew that 3 guns were a hell of a lot better than 2.
But if Sadie never came by or never heard where Micah was, John wasn't going to throw on his gun belt and abandon the farm to go looking for Micah in the world like your idea of honorable vengeance dictates that he had to. He only went because he had the clear opportunity, and because if he didn't go the deaths of his friends would most likely be on his conscience.

Kek

bronte getting what he deserved was glorious

The game basically becomes Max Payne once you get the ability to stay in dead eye after firing shots, and that's a good thing. I really wish there was a way to play the whole game with upgraded dead eye.

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most people there smoke weed and are pretty open about it. Idk how that compares to other studios. Sam and Dan don't afaik. Never really talked to Sam, but Dan was always decent and actually a lot warmer than most people in the office

Gotta hold out for the inevitable PC port.

>But that is my point, the choice was practically forced; Charles and Sadie were going, and John knew that 3 guns were a hell of a lot better than 2.
You're disguising the real reason under this Charles and Sadie shit dude. We both know that even if it was only John who learned of Micah, and if Sadie and Charles were dead or otherwise uncontactable, he still would have gone. He had to kill Micah the same way that Jack had to kill Ross. All this is part of R* point which is better communicated in the first game but is still present in the second.
>People don't forget. Nothing gets forgiven.
It's just the way of life to seek revenge for past wrongs.
>John wasn't going to throw on his gun belt and abandon the farm to go looking for Micah in the world like your idea of honorable vengeance dictates that he had to.
If he knew where he was, yes he would have lol. He himself says as much.
>He only went because he had the clear opportunity, and because if he didn't go the deaths of his friends would most likely be on his conscience.
You're wrong, I've already explained why.

R* North is in Scotland, you don't really have to ask.

I seen your name...in Awe Lah Jar

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It was amazing and poetic that he was fed to a gator after Arthur earlier compared him to them

all of it necesary evil to stop a highly dangerous gang of killers
you drank Dutch's kool aid and fail to see the gang for what it is, which is the whole point of Arthur and John's redemption paths: they rob and kill people for money. They are a hoghly nocive nuisance with romantic delusions about their nature.

Trying to play the game when your dead eye core is empty and the enjoyability of it immediately drops to 0, smdh

I can't wait. Mods that will allow upgraded dead eye the whole game, along with dead eye while hip-firing.
Along with mods to fix the game changing your set weapons.
Not to mention the already amazing gunplay enhanced with mouse and keyboard controls.
It's gonna be a good time.

''SURE''

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Chewing tobacco, my friend. Stock up on that shit.

You just decided that you're more loyal to what the Pinkertons represent than what the gang represents. Which again, is Rockstar's whole point. People just pick what they're loyal to.
>you drank Dutch's kool aid and fail to see the gang for what it is
No, I do see it for what it is. I just also see the Pinkertons for what they are.
>which is the whole point of Arthur and John's redemption paths: they rob and kill people for money
Yeah, but could you see John and Arthur joining the Pinkertons afterward? Would that be "redemption"? Lmao

I'm here for the Ironman dies

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As a side note I love all the dead eye regen items. It's amazing to kill 10 people in a single deadeye, hop behind cover, chief a hit on a cigar, and then jump out with dual revolvers and kill 10 more

That's debatable though. John says that but if he knew it was by himself I think he would have been a lot more hesitant, especially with the farm being there.
Jack's situation was different. Dude had nothing to tie him down, he had no reason not to go after Ross.
And I understand what Rockstar was going for. But I think the idea that John would be less of a man for just letting the past stay in the past (assuming that he didn't have a clear and obvious shot at Micah like he did with Charles and Sadie) is bullshit. Maybe John would have still gone after Micah if he only had the smallest whiff of him, but I don't think that's a positive character trait. Hell, I don't think Arthur would have thought highly of him either.

Was the majority of work on the game done in the glesga then?

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kek

>thinkin' bout arthur
>thinkin' bout john
>thinkin' bout their sacrifices and what they wanted to accomplish by passing down their legacy
I'm sad.
>thinkin' bout jack
I'm a different type of sad.

Attached: Red Dead Redemption 2 - Drunkard.webm (1280x720, 2.8M)

Kek

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Name some secrets yet to be revealed or found

delet

Say what you will about the game, but it had by far the most natural npc interactions/conversations out of any game I've ever played. Even if they are mostly scripted, it's still impressive.
Walking through camp and still discovering new conversations after 5 playthroughs, the amount of content in this game is crazy.

This is reminding me of when the new star wars fanfic movies came out and people actually thought anyone cared about spoilers for shitty overblown mega-budget american shit trash

what the fuck was Micah's problem

>That's debatable though. John says that but if he knew it was by himself I think he would have been a lot more hesitant, especially with the farm being there.
Going against the word of a notably straightforward and honest character who by all rights would carry this out because...why? Because you want to win some internet battle? Come on dude.
>Jack's situation was different. Dude had nothing to tie him down, he had no reason not to go after Ross.
I'm not saying its the same situation, I'm saying they both feed into Rockstar's point established in both games. The point isn't "you shouldn't seek revenge, kids!" the point is that this is just how shit goes and happy endings are in some ways impossible, wrongs are repaid in full by wronged people and sin is in a sense inescapable. Like any half-decent story R* isn't trying to teach a fucking moral lesson as their primo operative. Read the Birth of Tragedy.
>But I think the idea that John would be less of a man .... is bullshit.
Not surprised you think so.
> but I don't think that's a positive character trait. Hell, I don't think Arthur would have thought highly of him either.
You're wrong. Arthur would have been disappointed that he didn't prioritize his family, sure. But his opinion of him wouldn't have been lessened. I imagine John would feel the exact same way if he could see Jack avenging him.

Cuntitis

Makes it even weirder how utterly devoid of content and, apparently, effort going forward the Online aspect is.

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Dude was just a sociopath.

Gay in 1880.

This is true. I wish they kept the online simple and fun like it was in GTA IV and RDR1. I can't stand GTAO or RDRO.

he's a survivor
just doin' what he's gotta do to subsist, or so he claims

Just imagine this game on PC, Yea Forumsros.

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Camp was by far the greatest part of the game and in general how alive and fleshed out the NPCs feel is impressive.

HEEEEE'SSSS LYYIIINGGG

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He's just a sociopath living life on the barest of animal terms as someone else said. I imagine he had forgotten about Arthur pretty much after he died until John showed back up and he could use him as a conversational weapon. He truly didn't care about anyone but himself and only cared for his own survival.

BLACK LUNG

I would fuck Ms. Grimshaw like a madman until my dick broke off

Fav mission? I liked that st Denis mob story

The fuck is this winning an internet battle about? We're having a conversation, I'm not trying to dunk on you.
>You're wrong. Arthur would have been disappointed that he didn't prioritize his family, sure. But his opinion of him wouldn't have been lessened. I imagine John would feel the exact same way if he could see Jack avenging him.
Possibly, but there's a fair amount of quotes that show Arthur really wanted John to get out and stay out of this life, whether or not Arthur died in the attempt.
>Look, just do one thing or another...not be two people at once. That's all I'm saying.
>Be loyal to what matters.
>John made it. He's the only one. Rest of us... no. But... I tried. In the end. I did.

MISS GRIMSHAW! YOU USED TO MAKE THE BOYS COME RUNNIN!
>Oh leave me alone Arthur
NOW THEY'RE RUNNIN THE OTHER DIRECTION

Did they fix the goddamn facial hair glitch in online?

whatever mission unshaken plays in

The one where you rescue Jack. It was the last time Dutch was actually badass and not a lunatic.

>The fuck is this winning an internet battle about? We're having a conversation, I'm not trying to dunk on you.
Kek, what a relief
>Possibly, but there's a fair amount of quotes that show Arthur really wanted John to get out and stay out of this life, whether or not Arthur died in the attempt.
Of course he did. And after it was all done there was probably nothing Arthur wanted more than for John never to be involved with these people again and to go live happily with Abigail and Jack. But I doubt that he would lose any real respect for John if he knew John would avenge him. He would understand.
It's kind of like if I find out my son beat up another kid for bullying his little brother. Do I wish my son wouldn't have put himself at risk? Absolutely. Will I lose respect for my son for defending his little brother? Absolutely not.

Greet + Antagonise best combo
>You got a familiar face, partner
>I sure do miss that horse

There's a lot of really good ones, but on my last playthrough I really enjoyed the mission where Dutch kills Cornwall and you kill a ton of Pinkertons in Annesburg, and the one where you and Charles break Eagle Flies out of the army fort.

Pinkertons represent order and safety for the people that have jobs, that don't go kill for a score, that make all the things the gang then goes and tries to steal
you completely forget the civilians in all this and you think you understood Rockstar's point more than anyone
The actions of the Pinkertons serve the greater good, a society whithout gunslinging outlaws. The actions of Dutch's gang serve Dutch's interests.
Pinkertons are a necesary evil, Arthur and John were an unnecesary evil, that makes one better than the other, not two sides of the same coin like a hack "we live in a society" would do. John's redemption was simply trying to become an honest farmer and a good father. Arthur's redemption was making sure John got a shot at that.

1. attacking the oil refinery with the natives
2. valentine bank robbery
3. saint denis bank robbery
4. attacking braithwaithe mansion
5. train robbery with John
All excellent. Guarma missions were also a blast but not my faves because narratively they're pretty weak

>Freckled milkies

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>the mission where you go with his dad to the negation and have a big shootout and escape the army when this plays

>youtube.com/watch?v=kI-nFfmkm5k

Good shit

I swear to God I remember that sometimes he'll turn the line around
>I'm feeling good today!
That's great partner
>Despite looking at yer ugly mug!

Remember that steamboat heist?

that mission with the big gator was spooky af

its such a shame the gameplay is mediocre. everything else is pitch perfect.

>tfw that mission spooped you away from the missus

Going from Arthur's spicy bants to John's autistic ass was something else

It's nice to finally have a civil discussion about this game, usually it's just shit-posting and people comparing it to Zelda

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John is supposed to be goofy.

>Pinkertons represent order and safety for the people that have jobs, that don't go kill for a score, that make all the things the gang then goes and tries to steal
Sure, unless you're a person who can be strategically used as a bargaining chip to accomplish certain goals. And also, they represent driving people into agreement with the overriding system brought down from on high.
>you completely forget the civilians in all this and you think you understood Rockstar's point more than anyone
?
>The actions of the Pinkertons serve the greater good, a society whithout gunslinging outlaws. The actions of Dutch's gang serve Dutch's interests.
This is an oversimplification. The Pinkertons ultimately serve their own interests, which is Rockstar's point again unless you think this is some bulshit moral tale about "le outlaw bad"
Why don't we take a look at this quote from RDR1
>When I'm gone they'll just find another monster. They have to. They have to justify their wages.
If you think R* wanted to portray the Pinkertons as the good guys you're a moron.
>Pinkertons are a necesary evil, Arthur and John were an unnecesary evil,
The use of "necessary" here all depends on your perspective.
> that makes one better than the other
Again that's your own persective. You're pretending that you're preaching absolute morality when really you're just more attached to what the Pinks are fighting for than what the gang is. Some people could easily come away with the opposite impression and then I'd be having a mirror debate with them.

The one where you're playing cards? Also great

There's something so soulful and depressing about sick and dying Arthur

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Will there be a dlc?

It is nice, the hyper-aggressive anti-RDR2 shitposters seem to be off duty today

>going from John to Jack in RDR1 sucks
>going from Arthur to John in RDR2 sucks

really makes you think

No one can compare with Arthur's legendary roasts, but John has his own charm with how earnest he is when he gets all angry during an encounter. I realized that I missed that when I was playing as him.
>MY NAME IS JOHN MARSTON
>IMA KILL ALL YOU GODDAMN SONS OF BITCHES

I really hope so, and not just dumb online content.
I hope for more single-player goodness. Maybe aliens instead of zombies this time as the "weird yet exactly what I wanted" DLC singleplayer campaign?

She did have some tittays, but Mary Beth or Abigail are still the best looking.

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>you will never marry a cute illiterate hard working woman

on the farm, in the streets or on her back, based abi was not only a threat but lovely.

Be honest, did you guys cry just a little at the end with arthur? I felt really attached to the guy, he was a good guy who had done a lot of horrible things but he was still human. When he said he was afraid to die it felt so real. Gotta give props to rockstar.

The part where this song played
youtu.be/YdW5-uJqCVY
and my horse dying, both those parts got a couple tears out of me.

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It was odd, I didn't on my first playthrough but on my second one I tried doing everything before the epilogue even that fucking gambler challenge and it hurt a lot more leading up to it.

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The build-up to his end was really good. I miss my horse, I spent the entire game with him and seeing Arthur spend the time to say "thank you" to him broke my heart. I miss ya, Rodney. You were the best war horse.

BUILT

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It probably isn't but is this the first time any game had their mc die in a slow and realistic way like this?

>was an evil Arthur
>dressed in all fur and leather
>antagonized everybody

I'm glad he died

Maybe Snake in MGS4 but that was honestly shittily done compared to Arthur in my opinion.

>Arthur's redemption was making sure John got a shot at that.
As far as redemption goes in the greater scheme of things (and this reflects on how poorly the honor system is implemented) it's a pretty shitty redemption. Everything you can do leading up to that point through side missions (absolving debts, helping the widow, aiding Downes) are much better portrayed.

The honor system is garbage for the sometimes arbitrary way it scores you. Stealing jewelry from people is bad but donating said stolen goods to the camp is good?

yes it got to me. arthur's life being cruel and harsh and ultimately for nothing, dying unloved and unremembered.

Oh yeah, you are right though. I felt Arthur's death was done way better than most game that kill their mcs.

I'm idling in Online and I've made over $1,000 and 10 gold today :)
it's kind of addictive, like cookie clicker or something

Well what a coincidence. so are we!

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I genuinely don't know why I enjoy online

he's so handsome and playable john looks so off model compared to npc john

killer soundtrack too.

Yeah, a lot actually. I think it was worse if you knew the outcome of the first game as well, the Epilogue doesn't add much reprieve when you know everything Arthur did was for nothing in the end anyway.

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That's because playable John uses all of Arthur's major facial features so it doesn't screw up the facial mocap.

i believe this but at the same time it doesnt really make sense considering r* wouldve probably had to do facial capture for rob wiethoff anyway

Dutch's plans only went awry do to outside factors he could not control nor predict.

you wore Arthur's hat throughout the epilogue didn't you, right?

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You would think so, yeah, but compare Arthur's face and playable John's face. They're nearly identical, when clearly (looking mostly at RDR1, admittedly, but most main characters aren't very different looking between the two) he's not supposed to look anything like Arthur's chiselled manliness and more like an ugly round lumpy blob.

talking out of your ass to have the last word
le outlaw is indeed bad
Pinkertons risk their lives not for a big score they take by force but for a paycheck they earn stopping highway bandits
The other monsters they find to justify their paychecks, they don't have to fabricate them, they're simply there, robbing, killing as they go for a few dollars
no, it's purely objective: people don't need outlaws, Dutch's gang is not needed by anyone, throughout the game they haven't helped anyone but themselves and they did at the expense of others, the only exception to that is guarma, where what they did they didn't do for money
if someone came away with the opposite impression they would have missed the point of Arthur and John's characters completely, they would regurgitate Dutch's romantic illusions of freedom, of fighting to survive, of fighting against the system
Micah is what they are, what Dutch is without the veneer of these illusions
they're a sorry pack of wild dogs, a relic of chaos in a world of order
chaos doesn't do people any good, outlaws like Bronte understood that, gunslingers like Sadie understood that.

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I didn't, but I knew about it beforehand. Didn't cry when John died either.

I pretty much forgot about arthur

That explains why his face is off.

Especially when it counts

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I agree.

Hosea & Lenny’s death’s are bullshit.
Hosea should have sacrificed himself fighting Micah in knife to knife combat at the Bever Hollows camp as it’s burning to the ground trying to get the money as the smoke is making it hard to see and hard too breath.
Micah tries to overpower Hosea and stab him trough his chest but the old man is smarter than that.
Hosea slices Micah’s eye out as a final fuck you before sucombing to suffecation from his lungs but not before Dutch appears and they have one final heartfelt conversation where Dutch has no other choice but to listen.

Lenny should have survived and fucked off until RDR3 comes around starring Jack Marston.

Fuck i’m so disappointed.

aids tier
based

because he wasn't half as smart as if thought he was
the whole Rhodes business is proof of that, Arthur was the one right about everything, and that's only because he expressed simple caution like: "hey, let's not play the two big sides of this little town at the same time, some people might catch on what we're doing"
Dutch just assumed everyone were mouth breathing morons and got himself once more in trouble

If only everyone could die like a hero.

To be fair it is weird, for gta they do shit as simple as calling the FBI the FIB.

he looks like he's one bad day away from going full SOCIETY on that town

They also sued Weezer and lost so the outcome here is going to be pretty similar if you ask me.

>demands more money then what was originally agreed
>pulls a fucking knife on them
>Was likely right on her ratting on them

>talking out of your ass to have the last word
Lmao calm down with the pseudo righteous indignation bud
>le outlaw is indeed bad
Sure, but that's not what the game's story is trying to establish
>Pinkertons risk their lives not for a big score they take by force but for a paycheck they earn stopping highway bandits
Do you work for the Pinkertons or something? It seems like my last post went right over your head.
>The other monsters they find to justify their paychecks, they don't have to fabricate them, they're simply there, robbing, killing as they go for a few dollars
Jesus Christ. The game itself proves you wrong, as when John was retired on his farm, not engaged in robbing or killing anyone, they still come for him. John was indeed a fabricated monster himself. Dutch's statement was a subtle warning.
>no, it's purely objective
Here's a tip: something isn't objective because you say it is. You have to build a case, provide a chain of logical reasoning. I can tell you're not really into philosophy.
> Dutch's gang is not needed by anyone, throughout the game they haven't helped anyone but themselves and they did at the expense of others,
You immediately provide an exception to your own "rule", but even then there are situations in which outlaws are arguably beneficial to society. They sure are for the Pinkertons for example, who's existence depends on them.
You're also unsurprisingly completely wrong, as throughout the game the gang aids Sadie, saving her life, as well as Penelope and Beau, at several points the law enforcement of Rhodes, the Natives, the captain who was going to be wrongly killed, as you said yourself the Guarman rebels, etc. and in the past they gave away the money they earned to the poor. They also help anyone who shelters with them, they support people like Reverend Swanson while he gets on his feet, protect Tilly from the other gang who is after her, clothe and feed all these people, etc.

They seem to view RDR as a more serious, less 'parody' series, so they tend not to do that as much as they can. Like how New York is actually New York in it. The only reason they probably didn't name any place IN the game its actual name is because then it would seem too small.

As for the rest of your post
>if someone came away with the opposite impression they would have missed the point of Arthur and John's characters completely, they would regurgitate Dutch's romantic illusions of freedom, of fighting to survive, of fighting against the system
You're literally just the opposite side of the coin to these people and you're too retarded to realize it. In essence you're the exact same. And no, that isn't the point of the characters, you're just a /pol/tard who interprets it within his own highly specific Overton Window just like some hippie tard might be inclined to side with Dutch's gang and would blather the exact same points at me but colored in a different language
rest of your post is a cringy attempt to wax poetically lol

Kind of cringy but I agree their deaths are pretty badly handled. Also RDR3 should absolutely not be about Jack.

don't preach philosophy then proceed to ad hominem him lmao

Fancy Mustache Morgan is even better

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One of the few times even the normalfags wanted more single player, but rockstar is too brainlet and thinks people just want to play a autistic mute. Single player feels very slow and methodical, and very much like you should he taking your time and taking in the environment. Online is the exact opposite then and requires everyone to be using maxed out auto aim since everyone else is using it.

Rhodes was his one genuinely bad idea but only because they executed it like clowns. Arthur himself was present at things with both families as Sean pointed out right before his death, which was idiotic.
Honestly IMO they failed in that operation mostly because of the gang's independent operations and not because of Dutch. It was completely retarded to steal the Braithwaithe's horses, try to sell them back their moonshine, burn the fields, etc. etc. pulling all these little jobs on them before the big one, all it did was tip them off. Hell, the job that got Sean killed was an obvious trap that Bill independently took, because he's a retard.
If they had just stuck with the posing as law enforcement gag while Hosea independently got an in on the Braithwaites and WAITED, then they could have easily determined that there was no gold and quietly left.

>not engaged in robbing or killing anyone, they still come for him
how many times has the line "we can't escape from our past" or "the past is the only thing that's real" has to be said for you to understand that one cannot escape from his past? not everyone is as relaxed about murder as you are
we get it, you're based centrists

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>Dutch outright wants to fuck her and even hits on her, wanting to drop Molly
How can one girl be such a best? How does she do it bros?

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Ad hominem is only a fallacy when your argument depends on its usage to prove a point. Its not a fallacy to insult your opponent while you provide reasoning elsewhere.

go back to the burned mansion, there's a lock box with gold in it beneath the floor somewhere

Really? Who else?

Still makes you look a bit pompous either way.

>how many times has the line "we can't escape from our past" or "the past is the only thing that's real" has to be said for you to understand that one cannot escape from his past?
When did I ever that that this wasn't the case? You're talking about a whole different point now. I was calling you out on your claim that the Pinkertons don't need to fabricate monsters, don't insult everyone's intelligence by attempting an incredibly transparent shifting of the goalposts.
>we get it, you're based centrists
Not a centrist. I get it, you only think in binary and everyone who isn't with you is against you. You a leftist by chance?

Not trying to avoid looking pompous so I guess it achieved its desired effect

All that's missing is a trip code

I still like the game but fuck some parts just feel unfinished, like how barebones the camp upgrade system was and how you get so much money it's easy to fill up anyway and how dropping off food to Pearson doesn't matter. Also fuck whoever made the challenges, namely the gambler ones and cougar one.

kek

I was fine until
>There's a good man within you. But he is wrestling with a giant.

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>cougar one
easy, game the spawning system by quick traveling between the two spawn points on the map (north of owanjiwa dam, north-west of annesburg) and sleeping for 12-18 hours after traveling. Use save/load if you can't sleep.

who else I want to fuck all my normie facebook fags

I agree on all that. It's so odd how some parts of the game seem to have been lovingly crafted with incredible care and attention to detail and others are completely phoned in. The challenges are an abomination unto the Lord.

That spot north-west of Annesburg was enough for me. I would sometimes get three cougars in one go by riding in a big loop past Dover Hill and back up over the rise then back down into the basin.

not cry but just feel bad man. Same happened with RDR1 and Jon dying after what felt like an eternal struggle to get his family back.
That's the way it is ride, the final stand on the mountain after you tell Jon to go and Compass in RDR1 are masterful moments.

It's amazing how much better the challenges are in RDR1 even in the same category. I remember being less satisfied with the treasure hunts even, RDR1's seemed much more intuitve.

N-Nietzsche?

That's honestly a good thing because the parodic elements in GTA are imo pretty goddamn cringy

God I hope gta 6 can tone down on that shit just a little bit, it got really tacky and I get that gta is a clown world and is full of parody but 5 showed us you can have impactful moments even if the world is entirely nonsensical.

Yea

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RDR2's "challenges" are a nonsensical clusterfuck of bad ideas made worse by the fact that you have to complete them sequentially. I had a damn good time getting Legend of The West, I don't know if I'm really going to bother getting East, especially since they want you to do it in post-game which makes no fucking sense.

Mary Beth? More like Mary Sue.

Made worse by the fact that the outfit just does not look good on John whatsoever. Even the official guide has Arthur wearing it.

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>You're talking about a whole different point now.
no, you mentionned how they came for John after he retired as if it was illogical but it's foreshadowed throughout the entire game
>claim that the Pinkertons don't need to fabricate monster
once again you missed the plot
first, Pinkertons chase criminals and there's no shortage of that, they don't need to fabricate anything; once the gunslingers were out, it was the mafia guys like Bronte, the new and improved outlaw who serves to show further how outdated and out of place Dutch and his gang are, who got the law's attention
There is one fabricated monster in RDR1 and it's not one fabricated to justify a paycheck, it's one fabricated out pride, revenge. Ross made a deal with John, he knew John was changed but decided out of pride to be his judge and executioner. Doing that, he sent Jack on himself. Like John sent Ross on himself for going after Micah.

>can't get John's mop haircut in the epilogue
Fucking WHY

I uninstalled the game and resinstalled it wihout updates just to get it for Arthur. The vest is pretty fucking awesome and my endgame outfit was that plus the pants with brown boots. Arthur was swaggin. Only vest with a dangling watch-chain.
Overall though its not nearly as cool as the Legend of the West, its much more of a pain in the ass to get, and the challenges are pretty fucking awful. Some of them wouldn't register a couple of times too so I had to redo them. I did Weapons Expert 10 and Horseman 9 at least three times each before they finally clicked.
>Kind of fun tier
Sharpshooter
>Braindead tier
Explorer
>Actively annoying tier
Horseman, Weapons Expert, Master Hunter,
>Insane time sink tier
Herablist, Survialist
>Absolutely miserable tier
Gambler

Overall its definitely not worth it.

More like Mary-Bland

>no, you mentionned how they came for John after he retired as if it was illogical but it's foreshadowed throughout the entire game
You're a retard. I'm not going to continue talking to someone this stupid.

>slicked hair
more like yikes o

based

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>The lesson to the story was everyone is a moron and until you realize it you’re stuck following morons.
“Anyone dumb enough to vote, I say go for it.”

I've done every challenge twice now on both my playthroughs, whoever thought "pick 15 herbs" then "pick all herbs" were challenging outside of a test of patience deserve to be brutally sodomized by a rusty pike. And fuck the fact that they have to be done in sequential order AND locked to various points of the story. It's the kind of side content that should be possible but difficult to do early but easier when you get into the story, not gatekept for no reason at all.

It's not too bad for GTA, Algonquin replacing Manhattan is pretty nice considering the way the original got it's name

good, i was getting tired of stating the obvious to a blind man

they're a Private Security company since 1940, more or less.
to be fair they always were Private but they had Govn approval to enforce laws in the American Frontier era
>t. Spaniard
to be fair the Pinkertons have done way worse irl

Yeah they're god-awful. Also for some reason there's much less plants in New Austin than there was in the first game. Also, there are almost no species of plants in New Austin other than the originals. Plant wise the whole region felt super phoned in. They should have just bit the bullet and included the region in the story like was obviously originally intended. How fucking hard would it have been to start the game in New Austin, move up to Blackwater, have John come back from his year hiatus to explain that he hadn't been in New Austin before, then do the Blackwater Ferry job, then proceed? It's not fucking rocket science and they could've avoided all the convoluted bullshit.

I meant "swept back" or whatever they call it. It's not really slicked back.

Angelo Bronte mansion raid mission was kino. I hope Rockstar makes a game about mafia one day.

Even when Cornwall wants them to do more Milton expresses they're doing everything the law allows them to, not too bad of a portrayal from R*. Kind of reminds me of the way they presented the CIA in GTA IV with them being the only helpful people in the game.

I chuckled when he hit John in the face with the pistol. Clearing the house with a shotgun was also fun.

El donte made that game 10 times better

10 times 0 is still 0

now that the Mafia series is dead they could do something with it yeah

Milton's modern haircut threw me off. I didn't think it made any sense and they did this weird thing where they only showed it once in the game but there was this focus on him taking his hat off briefly to reveal it.

Yeah it threw me off too especially when I saw it was an available haircut for Arthur, did people even have hair like that back then?

I kind if got dissatisfied with the old map reamp, maybe I just didn't explore enough idk

The CIA in 4 is all-in on cracking down the Russian/Yugoslav(because they're together in 4) mafia
Weird, because CIA has no jurisdiction on mainland USA.
But yeah they actually do something unlike anyone else apart of Niko and based niggers

Black lung Arthur could still take on multiple people, Charles has no chance against healthy Arthur.

Also the ULP contact actually brings Niko the man he wanted despite the fact that their deal had technically already been carried out

Niko was seriously respected by a shitload people
God bless him

I guess I don't know. I looked it up and it says that it rose in popularity in the 1910s, but it was linked with poverty and not being able to get a proper haircut, and that by the 1920s it was a mainstream fashion piece. Seems really out of place for Milton to have one. His is really fucking odd too, its much more of a contemporary cut, its long on top and its shaved over the corners of his head.

New Austin is literally the same area as in 1
but with a still-alive Tumbleweed, Armadillo absolutely fucked thanks to bad deals with certain Gentleman, the railroad isn't finished and Nuevo Paraiso is just a background(which wouldn't surprise if it becomes a playable area in RDO)

It was really nostalgic to ride back through. Hennigan's Stead looked gorgeous.

Very strange decision for such a minor character

There's not much to do there yeah. It's meant for RDO mostly. The main story line of RDO happens on the old map.

I think the part that annoyed Arthur more then anything was Dutch giving two different excuses for it.
>"I know a bit of Spanish, she was going to stab us in the back."
>"Alright what did she say then?"
>"Ah, it was just in her body language and the way she was acting."
>"Wait you said you knew Spanish."
>"W-Well I know human beings Arthor!"

youtube.com/watch?v=fM6L3-5tQug&t=299s

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Yeah, that was pretty bad. My interpretation of that is either Dutch's comment about knowing Spanish was a joke that Arthur missed or that Dutch was just wary of Arthur because he knew that he was probably about to launch into a series of harsh criticisms. Arthur was kind of nagging-wife mode with Dutch for a while.

miss me with that gay shit

They did ever since people had access to the clippers. It was very easy to maintain, becoming very popular in the war periods, but before that too.

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Not a bad video, but he gets a few things wrong here and its pretty telling of his own bias that he purposely miscontrues some of the events of the game. For example, he pretends that Arthur opening fire on the soldiers in that mission with the meeting of the Chief was because the army guy broke the treaty when in reality it was to save the captain who was going to be wrongly killed and Arthur didn't even open fire first.
Still he has some really solid points in there. Kind of has that uppity nerd dialect that will turn anyone off who even slightly leans left though.

No, it actually adds more to the comedical fact IMO.

That part where he talks about how he really *feels* for the virtual "hard-working folks" who got robbed, despite the fact that Arthur never in canon robs a regular non-rich civilian, was also pretty cringy. Everytime he said "fellow citizens" I cringed.

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Drinking game:
watch the whole video, take a shot whenever he says
>fellow citizens
>alpha
>actually

Lmao that mission is fucking hilarious

being too based

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Slimmed up and fixed his facial hair style in eight years, actually looked pretty good when you come to kill him

2019...I am forgotten....

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Here he is

I wanted so badly for there to be a romantic subplot with Mary-Beth that ultimately ends with Arthur awkwardly turning her down because no good can come from being with him. They laid the groundwork for a romance but then never delivered, frustrating af especially because Arthur was alpha and handsome af, made no sense he wasn't swimming in poon

Weird how none of the girls got upset when I was taking pictures of their titties

heard a romance was intended but ended being cut

Man fuck the Night Folk
>Wandering around Swamp Town
>Oh hey look at those guys running up from the water
>They must be running away from something
>Why are they completely silent
>I don't see what they're running froAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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I really don't see the appeal.

mangos, the wrong way

He isn't wrong.
Must be gutting them having spent 9 years on a game, just to lose every major GOTY award to God of War.
And before you say
>Muh Sales.
R* clearly cares about critical acclaim, or they wouldn't much that much effort in polishing up the single player, releasing a game every 10 years.

Reminds me of Black Beard in OP.

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>that time when Micah asks her to dance and gets BTFO by her
>Before that at the party for Sean's return she outright asks Arthur to dance with her
What did she mean by this?

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You're in the saloon and this guy moseys up and slaps you on the ass. What do?

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This is as close to vergil as I could do in early game.

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She's the youngest and most conventionally attractive of all the women. Also has the least baggage. And she's the most childlike and feminine. The appeal is a no brainer.

She cute.

I love the Night Folk, so goddamn spooky

>those legs
Looks like a manlet

call him daddy bear and ask him to do it again

Not bad, why not fancy pants for the pants though? Or black working pants

>she's the most attractive because she's child like
Sir id like to have a talk

it's the pants

Call him out for bring a homo in the year of our Lord 1899.

I'm at about 98% complete, all I have left is a couple challenges and the exotic collectathon but I've completely lost all motivation to keep playing

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so who actually ratted the gang out about the saint denis bank robbery? milton said micah started talking after guarma and molly was lying to get attention from dutch.

I think by that he means innocent, and not like the jaded cowtits such as Karen. Other then that there's Tilly who does so little I don't even remember what her personality was or if she had one to begin with, and Molly and Abigail are already taken.

Have you done the hunting collections yet? Those fucking requests are worse than any of the challenges/exotics.
>gang sniffing around town far too long
>trolley gets robbed
>major gang head dies
>shootings in a cemetery
>riverboat robbed
>in the newspapers all the way out strawberry
>HURR DURR HOW DID THEY FIND US??!?!1
Y'know Arthur and Hosea were right in that they should have lied low for longer without kicking up so much dust.

Nobody. They murdered the most important man in the fucking city about a day or two ago, and it would be obvious to assume they needed to get some cash and get the fuck out of town fast, so they'd likely hit the bank. Plus a sudden explosion in town would be pretty suspicious given the circumstances, Milton wasn't a brainlet.

Child-likeness, in terms of attitude, is an incredibly desirable trait in women. Obviously I don't mean physically, Mary-Beth is a full grown woman with a nice set of honkers, also very attractive.

This reminds me of what Tily becomes. Her demanding that John address her by her new title and like a lady made me hate her.

Yep, I did them gradually during the course of the game so they weren't nearly as tiresome as doing them back to back

i IMPLORE him to reconsider doing it again

HELLFIRE

Milton didn't necessarily say that Micah had never spoken to him before Guarma, only that he had "picked Micah up" after Guarma. It's kind of funny because in the epilogue even John voices some confusion about for how long exactly Micah was selling them out to the feds. My interpretation is that he always was. The gang always talks about how jobs started to go wrong with the Pinkertons seeming to always know where they were starting with the ferry job, which was the first job Micah coached Dutch into doing.

He'll fire on your stomach tho

>americanism
not proper english

Leftists aren't human and not a profitable audience, so it's not an issue.

I didn't think it would make a difference with the chaps. I'll try it later. Is there a way to get full vergil mode with white hair later on?

Molly is IMO the most attractive woman in the entire camp. Power rankings:
>Molly
>Mary-Beth
>Sadie
>Karen
>Abigail
>Tilly
>Miss Grimshaw
Abigail would jump up past Karen if she didn't have the baggage of having a kid that isn't yours. Karen is that low because I don't like fat chicks. Tilly's spot is because she's unattractive, I actually think black women can be pretty hot. Molly is a fiery, fiercely loyal upper class Irish girl, what a catch. She's passionate. Exact kind of girl I would want.

You're right about the first thing but very wrong about the second.

No way to get white hair unfortunately

Yeah, just me.

>but 5 showed us you can have impactful moments even if the world is entirely nonsensical.
What impactful moments did it have? Nothing mattered in that game, no long lasting consequences outside of if you decided to kill off a character in the ending.

fair point

Grimshaw was a top gilf who i bet would give top tier angry handjobs with thick fingers and big rings, she deserves more than last place

That's the outfit? It looks kind of disappointing compared to Legend of the West.

More or less. There's also a hat.

It's probably the most vibrant looking coat in the game, the shade of red you can't find on any other clothes.

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I don't want to disrespect Miss Grimshaw but she is the oldest in the camp by a wide margin and knows that her seductress days are over. I might consider putting her above Tilly but I don't want to be mean to Tilly and that would also seem racist to put the only black woman below even the white woman who hit the wall 20 years ago.
Miss Grimshaw is a top tier mom/grandma candidate though and I would nurture a platonic relationship with her

It bears an irritating similarity to Micah's color scheme

To each their own, but for me? It's Mary Beth.

John >>> Arthur
Deep down you know it's true.

with the occasional drunken handjob

With the hat sure, that's why I don't use it I think it looks too goofy. Micah also has that black leather jacket which is really what puts his outfit together.

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no way fag

like em both in different ways, i wouldn't put one above the other

Also a respectable choice, it just depends on what you're looking for.

He's really not. I loved John but Arthur stole the show.

It's not racist when she has barely any personality.

>wanting Dutch's used cumdump
Nigga even wants to drop her anyway and fuck Mary Beth.

Tilly is a sweet girl but she's just physically unattractive. She's a rail with a plain face. If it was just personality based she would be third place for me though, she's sweet, feminine, kind, and her friendship with Arthur was really touching.

I mean in a different world in which the girls would be isolated from their sexual history obviously. If I took that into account then Mary-Beth would easily take the top spot even though its very unlikely she's a virgin. Karen is Sean's used cumdump, etc.

>Karen is that low because I don't like fat chicks.
Based.
>Tilly's spot is because she's unattractive, I actually think black women can be pretty hot.
I thought she was kind of cute, just a really boring choice and hasn't got anything appealing like Molly's feisty attitude, Abigail's bantz, Mary-Beth's qtness and Karen's tits.

Is that chapter 4 glitch to go to New Austin early still in the game or do you have to use another method?

To each their own, I found Tilly to be plain-faced and not very curvaceous.

It has been patched as of the most recent update, your options are to downgrade if you have a physical disk (uninstall, reinstall and don't update) or wait for a PC release and mods.

They patched it out. To use it you have to reinstall the game and not update it.

>GET OUT HERE YOU INBRED TRASH

John is God tier and I went in expecting absolutely nothing from Arthur, he seemed just like a greedy asshole in the trailers but he was elder god tier, reading his Journal really helps with that. I would love a rdr1 remake though with references to Arthur added and John getting his own journal, and getting to see how different the part of the map they added in 2 changed. Could even have some Jack specific stuff for him there to help flesh him out, maybe learning more about the gang and such.

Charles Since you cant kill him in normal game play so he is naturally immortal

Charles is a magical unicorn nigger of course he will win with that level of plot armour.

Edinburgh

To add, if this is a hypothetical situation and I was a part of the camp I wouldn't go for Mary-Beth either seeing as Dutch would either steal my girl or single me out because I was banging her. I would just bang random women in the nearby towns and be sexually available at the camp without getting into a relationship with anybody.

For what fucking purpose?

>not establishing dominance and cucking Dutch out of getting your waifu
Get on my level pleb.

Because R* secretly hates us and wants to make us depressed
If only I was a stronger man. But then he'd probably put me in a situation on a job where I'm likely to die or get captured and then leave me for dead. Then he'd be back at camp "consoling" Mary-Beth. Never wise to shit where you eat.

Tbh I really can't picture Dutch going that far just to get some pussy. If you were a faggot like Micah as well then maybe but if you were on his good side I can't picture him trying that shit if Mary Beth went with you over him.

I’m here 4 the cunny!

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Idk man I'm not really the trusting type. Maybe if I was highly useful to the gang he would leave me alone. Then again, maybe not.

For what purpose

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I'm not the most trusting either but I would intend to be useful if I was part of the gang, so as long as I proved my use I doubt he'd start shit.

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Both Arthur and John were highly useful and it didn't prevent him from pulling the old "didn't see it" trick though

The what trick? If you mean leaving them to die then that was when he was going off the deep end. I was referring to before that. Besides at that point you could likely convince her to run off with you and abandon the gang.

Do you seriously believe Dutch was going to go back for Arthur when he was captured?

No, just clarifying that was what you meant. Still, by that point Dutch is so crazy that it wouldn't be hard to convince the non brainlet members to bail, hell Mary Beth does that right before the last mission. If she had someone trying to convince her to do so she'd likely bail sooner.

It would be really weird if he didn't, at that point he still deeply cared about Arthur.

For me it's bearded, long haired Arthur

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No way m8, short hair clean shaven when he's not sick, medium (no longer than to the neck) hair medium beard (before it starts looking 'long') when sick. The mountain man look just doesn't seem normal on him, no one reacts to him like that.

Clean shaven, long hair all day every day

based

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i love how this game looks

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Strauss did nothing wrong.

FUCK Strauss.

Arthur is better than Marston in every way and you two know it. The ONLY thing Marston had that Arthur didn't have was knowing when enough was enough and to settle down. Arthur had that viewpoint but it was too late when the sickness.

[2/2]
Arthur was the elder brother to Marston (even though they not related). He was good at everything Marston couldn't do (even swimming). Marston was a younger more confused little brother and it took the epilogue to realise he needs to grow the hell up.

[3/3]
At the end of the day it's basically
Arthur>Marston.
Case closed.

mine died, mate

why did you separate your posts

I was expecting him to die. I felt like the whole ending part of the mission was sad, but not sad enough to make me tear up.
But when I heard this
youtu.be/pTObSdocpxE
I couldn't hold my tears.

I don't think I've ever actually cried while playing a videogame. And did play a good amount of games that went hard with the tearjerker part. But this game had that effect to me.

Fucking captcha dude.
Moot needs to fix it.
Took me 10 tries and I did it right.
I had use a different model lol.

This game did fanservice right. American Venom is such an incredible mission I was actually stunned. And I don't even like John that much, holy shit.

When he rides off to "thats the way it is" fucking gut wrenched me.

Them feels

Anyone recall what nickname micah gave everybody?

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cowpoke

Don't know I was enjoying spraying him in the end of the game.

>Moot needs to fix it.

Buddy...

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BLACK LUNG for Arthur atleast

I know user...