Was this the most extreme case of artistic license in Smash?

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Smash pulls stuff out of its ass in every game, some of which is fun (OP's stages, Falcon) and some which is just bizarre (Mario perpetually angry, Ganondorf panting while running like a tired old man, Rosalina having a black hole where her panties would be...)

Captain Falcon as he is known is basically entirely original to Smash. G&W also has this to some extent, but at the very least the Ice Climbers largely don't stray too hard from the source in comparison. Piranha Plant as a whole also uses a lot of artistic license.

Only if you consider him in the context of just his franchise. As a representative of all of Namco, he works. Also what parts of his moveset do you consider to be artistic license?

Nah, this is

They deliberately made Starfy a shitty and weak assist despite being powerful in his series and has a ton of abilites.

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I don’t know why Pac-Man was treated as if he had no material to choose from for a unique moveset. His moveset is so fucking random, but hey, at least he’s in the game.

Wario
At least Sakurai gave him back the shoulder dash

Ganondorf. Even now, his specials aren't really faithful.

It's a great game in all honesty

Joy Mech Fight is better

SUKAPONDIS

Ice Climbers would be so fun if the controls weren't complete shit.

Still more inspired than Melee's garbage stages

>dude what if he attacked with enemy sprites
imagine if mario had goombas appear at his side
what a fucking shit

Seething

I am. They're the worst in the franchise.

I'm probably going to get shit on for this, but a lot of Melee and Brawl's stages were pretty lazy.
>smaller Sector Z
>smaller Brinstar
>Kirby had a Battlefield reskin, so now Yoshi gets one too
>Onett, except it's completely wrong
>the front of smaller Sector Z
>raft in generic jungle
>river in generic jungle
>generic castle
>generic forest
>New Pork City, except you're on some random platforms in front of it
>Mario Bros. except BIG
>75m

As the poster you replied to, this time ten billion.

I will never not be mad about this. People say Sonic was handled poorly, but Sonic was handled masterfully compared to the atrocity that is Pac Man.

Before Melee, there was no "Mr. Game & Watch".

They took a generic G&W man, gave him a name, and slapped a bunch of random game references to him.

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Not really. Captain Falcon is primarily a racer, but he's also an action-oriented badass bounty hunter. Everything he does in Smash is fully in-character.
Then we have Wario, who in Smash does not reflect Wario as a character. He's sized and proportioned differently, he doesn't emote and move like Wario, and he doesn't throw down like Wario typically would.
>but it's WarioWare Wario!
Nope. Wario in WarioWare is exactly the same as he is in Wario Land. He's still a big, rough, flexing, emotive bruiser, but the game is just in a different setting and he dresses like a biker. That's it. The series was created by the same devs that made Wario Land, after all, so it makes sense they get the character right. Sakurai tried to do something else. Through Wario, he wanted to capture the weird style and feel of playing microgames, personified, rather than try to portray Wario as a character.

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I mean technically he is the guy from fire who was being rescued.

>Pac-Man's game had fire hydrants so what if he had a fire hydrant
>Uhhh....Mappy is an old game...like Pac-Man...so...

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Elaborate

Don't say Poke Floats

Literally half of brawl stages are pure cancer though.

>Wario in WarioWare is exactly the same as he is in Wario Land
Wario didn't even hunt for treasure for a while. He didn't have a castle and spent his time watching TV in a shitty dilapidated while eating junk food. He repeatedly got his shit kicked in and was completely incompetent.

>Source Gaming defended this.

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I agree with most of what you say but Onett isn't lazy. "Wrong" if you wanna argue inaccuracy maybe, but the stage is no rush job and it might be the best example of how to do a stage with walk-offs right.

Only the Gyro wasn't made up.

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> STILL no Rob stage
Also Professor Hector hasn't even appeared in-person so far.

His arms moving had some speed liberties but at least he's infamous for moving his arms around.

I'll never understand why they went with the obscure ass NES game for his stage in Ultimate instead of the Arcade setting every goddamn person alive thinks of when they think Pacman

Pac-Land is from the arcade
Still garbage though

Because the 3ds stage had a gimmick where the ghosts moved independently in each screen. It's really dumb though to prioritize that over bringing the stage based on the actual iconic game.

Half the stages are literally just the 64 stages but worse. Green Greens is an infinitely shitter Dream Land in the same setting. Mushroom Kingdom Melee doesn't even have the dumb but fun warp pipe gimmick. Jungle Japes and Kongo Jungle are generic fucking jungles. Princess Peach's Castle doesn't even look like a Mario area. Pokemon Stadium 1 literally doesn't have any Pokemon in it.

Advance Wars, big time.

>Wars series is 12 (TWELVE) games long
>Smash devs removed the assist trophy and still haven't added a rep
>Only representation is a couple of spirits, none of which include Sami and Max
>Wars characters don't even have a huge fanbase pushing for them even though its easily Nintendo's largest unrepresented franchise
>People pushing for minor characters like Ashley, Skullkid and Waddle Dee instead.
>Wars series itself hasnt seen a release in a decade
>Official stated reason is that they can't figure how to shoehorn dating sim elements in like they did with Fire Emblem

No other big series got shit on this much compared to Wars.

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> Pokemon Stadium doesn't have Pokemon
Retard, neither did the games because you summoned them.

It's one of the early scrolling platformers, predating Super Mario Bros. It was kind of a big deal at the time even though the controls were backwards.

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>Wario didn't even hunt for treasure for a while.
Because it's a different setting and format. The game was meant to explore a business venture of Wario's rather than an action adventure. At least some of his microgames portray him hunting treasure and having adventures.
>He didn't have a castle and spent his time watching TV in a shitty dilapidated while eating junk food.
He lived in a garage in WL4. Wario rarely stays in the same place. He earns to spend, not to hoard, after all. It fits him to live around various places he likes going for fun.
>He repeatedly got his shit kicked in and was completely incompetent.
He was competent but not infallible. The character usually gets his comeuppance when it's deserved.

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Sakurai claimed that Wolf in Ultimate is based on Star Fox Zero, when in reality it's pretty much an entirely new design besides the head.

It's pretty easy to see why Sakurai redesigned him though, the Zero design (as fully seen in Starlink) is really plain looking. Ultimate Wolf looks more battle ready.

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>can’t figure out how to ruin it like they ruined FE with waifutard shit

Is it so much to ask for a game where I can crush my opponents army beneath my righteous boot heel?

I get not having the Rev Roll because that's leaning into Sonic territory, but why the fuck couldn't he have the Butt Bounce? That's HIS move in the Pacman World series. It doesn't even function like a Mario ground pound because he bounces back up. Instead he has generic kicks and punches. People complain about swords but characters that stand and punch and kick have it just as bad.

Still better than his Melee design

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It looks like he was given time to dress for a fighting game instead of being pulled directly from his own series. Why else would he have bladed shoes and shin armor?

Fuck, angry Mario is the worst thing. His sound clips sounding so tired and older too.

Starfy's AT is pretty much a "take that!" for being too similar to Kirby.

It's weird. In Smash I still think Wario's normals are mostly based on Mario's. Even after his minor changes between Brawl and now, he's consistently functioned as a reverse Mario.

This, give me the YEEHAW voice

youtube.com/watch?v=jkgLH1phPew

Pokemon Stadium has nothing to do with the games. That stage is based on the fucking anime.

The whole reason Pit got redesigned for Brawl was because Link and Samus, who debuted the same year as Pit, had their series continue and their appearances evolved. The Brawl team wanted to redesign Pit on what he might have ended up looking like if his series had continued past the Gameboy.

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>Official stated reason is that they can't figure how to shoehorn dating sim elements in like they did with Fire Emblem
Well, they figured out how: by just turning it into Fire Emblem.

>all of these characters in melee's opening are now playable
>except samurai goroh

Feels bad man

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The Game Boy game didn't exist to Nintendo of Japan as it was never released there (until around Uprising when it was put on Japan's 3DS Virtual Console).

Ah yes, Pokefloats. The stage where they recycled a bunch of models from Pokemon Stadium, put them in front of a sky texture, called them balloons, and called it a day.

Japan doesn't like it even though more games were released there. I don't care about a playable character but fucking hell they should have kept the Assist Trophy. There's literally no reason for them not to be there. Same with Saki. People complain about Assist Trophies but these 2 series got cucked out of those too. Hell they couldn't even make a Mii costume of Andy or an Infantry or something.

The arm flailing and lasers are just exaggerations on what the accessory does

There's Pac Land level of big deal (a footnote) and there's Pac Man level of big deal (one of the most iconic games in history that transcends the industry and made the character enter pop culture) and only in Smash would the former get priority over the latter.

Kys Pokelosers

>Mother series only has 11 songs after being represented in all of the Smash games
>only new remixes were of songs that already had remixes
>only ONE of the tracks is actually a fucking battle theme from the games
>STILL NO PORKY MEANS BUSINESS OR PORKY'S FINAL THEME FROM MOTHER 3
I don't understand how after all this time Mother got shafted in the song department, while fucking Fire Emblem has 40 tracks that all sound the goddamn same

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Did you know Sprout Tower (an actual location, a Gen 2 one, and not just "Kanto" Skies) was planned as a stage but cut? Fuck Melee.

>Fates has the same song four times
>Got a new remix and it's the song again.
It's okay because I like the song and set it to play on all fe stages.

It has fucking 3 games, it has a shit ton of content for a series with so little work.

Musicians' bias.
Balance is not Smash's strongest suit, you complain about songs but Mother has more stages than FE.

I can understand Mother 1 and 2 not having too many remixes. Probably a bigger pain in the ass to license for than Final Fantasy because they encroach actual licensed music territory. They already went to hell and back just to re-release Earthbound.

>Mega Man has 80 songs
>90% of them suck

>Splatoon the most important and iconic part of its music completely removed while all animal crossing music is those annoying as fuck beeps.

>They're gonna butcher Persona 5 music too.
The music team should all be hanged.

Don't forget that almost every Pokemon remix sucks shit, especially what they fucking did to Gladion's and Cynthia's themes

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>fast as fuck electronic music? Nah let's slow it the fuck down and use clickers and violins

I think that's why people are so adamant in Smash keeping the tradition of including new retro reps with each game and why folks were bummed to see Ultimate deviate from that trend. It's because these characters are known but ultimately unknown. Their games had very basic rules with very basic abilities so seeing them revived and given brand new abilities that still feel in keeping with their original basic games makes for some of the more interesting characters in the game. Their movesets are creative yet still feel within the realm of what those characters could theoretically do. Sure, it's great to see more well known characters faithfully recreated with abilities pulled directly from their games but it's almost even cooler to see these retro, often less well known characters fleshed out more than their original games did.

Marth
he only had three sword swings and rapier to make for a moveset
Sakurai made him an elegant fencer

>Awful Bomb Rush Blush remix
>No octo-expansion tracks
>No team Skull
>No Unova Elite Four
Fuck

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Who cares. Being a Nancy museum is 10x more creative than the generic shit he does in PAC World. And his side b is pretty much the only move you need to represent Pac man himself.

>Xenoblade gets the most predictable songs imaginable in smash
>stuff like One Who Gets In Our Way get slashed in half because smash 4 had retarded sound design where everything had to fit 2 minute time battles
>they proceed to make a medley that's the EXACT SAME SONGS
Easily the most pissed off smash music choices has ever made me

Octo Expansion came out 3 months before the game retard.

Notice how most of the Splatoon stuff in Ultimate is based off of 1.

>This trashfire of a stage is still in the game

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Why are you complaining that a series with three games is lacking stuff? Mother has way more representation in Smash than it deserves.

and they were right
you still got your shoulder bash back and a new Land-inspired down throw too tho

Because that design was from Starlink: Battle for Atlas you disingenuous snake, Nintendo never modeled below the headshot you see in Zero. He's only full-bodied is Assault's, which is a different design.

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I wish more smash stages weren't just the first area of most games. Like the prime stage being the frigate and the ss stage being skyloft.

Agree big time.
What's hilarious is that this is ostensibly done to prevent spoilers yet Sakurai goes and makes a huge fucking spoiler for Lucas' stage.

Bomb Rush Blush wasn't a bad remix, the other ones on the other hand... well they are not too terrrible but there is no reason to use them over the original soundtrack.

What makes you think that’s it done to prevent spoilers?

>Avoiding spoilers
Fuck that noise
>Playing Xenoblade for the first time while waiting for Amazon to deliver my copy of Smash 4
>Get to where Fiora dies and Shulk sets off on his journey
>Smash 4 arrives, I load it up
>One of the very first trophies I get is mecha-Fiora
Sakurai is full of shit.

Keep in mind that those three games have a massive amount of content. Kirby Super Star and Donkey Kong Country 1 are each one game and they each influence Smash almost as much as the entire Mother series.

he was it was inspired by Star Fox Zero, he just got a nifty composite design

which brings to the subject
did Smash 4 Fox's Wolf indicated he planned this redesign since? (maybe due to Star Fox 643D?)

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Both of those games sold more than the Mother series combined

I wouldn't say the entirety. He was the fastest (until Sonic) and I'm pretty sure thast's an F-Zero reference.

Super Star lost to an N64 game.

this
also Ninten isn't even in despite he had the best timing to be included

Things that didn’t happen for 500 Alex.

Either way, I don’t think the care about spoilers. The first area of games tends to be the most iconic, even if Frigate Orpheus is a weird choice, it was likely chosen simply because the team thought they could make a gimmick out of it.

captain falcon

What does that have to do with Mother?

Don't forget they cut parts out of the Being Friends starting with Smash 4 as well that wasn't restored with Ultimate along with other songs that were truncated due to Sakurai's autism that all songs now fit into a 2 minute runtime even it meant butchering them.

>FE gets a lot of songs by one guy
>its all fucking shit
I just wanted some more gaidenkino remixes

This, I think Sonic is fine as he is. The only big change I want is making his side special the boost from his modern games so it isn't identical to his down special.

Very well put. Banjo aside, what must excited me about the Grinch leak was the potential in Mach Rider, especially if they went the woman angle.

Actually, some of his moves (mainly down smash, up smash, up b, back throw and his old dash attack) are really similar to the way mario does them, but in a less formal way

Fuck you, that is exactly what happened to me. I can pull out and timestamp my dusty as hell WiiU and copies of Xenoblade and Smash 4 if you don't believe me.

It means sales don't mean shit for legacy games, retard, or we would have gotten Ripple Star over the Great Cave Offensive.

Pit and the rest of the Kid Icarus universe in Brawl. It was obviously a predecessor to Uprising but nobody knew at the time.

Not that user but I got Mecha Fiora spoiled myself from a fucking loading screen tidbit of all things.

Kirby Super Star still sold more than Mother fuckhead, of course a N64 game would outsell Super Star considering it came out the same year

> Mother
> Legacy game
Really?

>play online
>end up on garden of hope/gamer
>there's no fucking background music

What the hell is removed from Splatoon? Every battle track and the panic songs are included from both S1 and S2.

The fucking vocals.

This. There's a reason Ness was cut in Melee and hasn't been back until Ultimate.

cpt falco stuff is from the comics

not his falcon punch though.

When they said they were giving more liberties to the musicians in song selection this game I didn't think we'd be worse off because of it."
>"So I can pick any song I want?"
>"I pick... Big Blue."
It's like they have no idea what songs already have numerous remixes. I wasn't expecting much from Mother 1 or 2, but there's no reason why we couldn't get some actual fucking battle music from 3. At least we got a lot of Castlevania tracks, even if Drac's castle shows up practically never. One last gripe, but I fucking hate how Mega Man 5 won the autism roulette and got a bunch of tracks, whereas 4 got shafted with a medley.

I think he meant Kirby 64, which came out later. Believe it or not, the original Super Star sold LESS than the Crystal Shards, but barely anyone knows that because Smash prioritizes the former. In fact, I JUST found this out and I'm pissed. Fuck you, Sakurai.

Eh? Ness never left. Maybe he was considered to be cut once or twice, but N64 seniority saved him every time.

they did tho

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shit this was meant for

>Ness was cut in Melee
What the fuck are you smoking

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Ah so that's why they're palatable in Smash.

>Goroh gets in
>Everyone bitches about another swordy

>being this slow

Delete this post.

>many stages have several to close to a hundred tracks to choose from
>only two tracks set to play, with a bunch at 1% or 0%
It's especially annoying on stages with good tracks. As basic as it is I don't mind Vampire Killer, but if I have to hear the MM2 medley from Sm4sh again I'm going to pull my hair out. It should either always give you your music settings or they should patch the music presets for the lazy fuckers that haven't changed theirs.

People will bitch regardless but it'd be nice to have someone that actually uses a katana.

But Cynthia's theme is great.
Still wish we'd finally get the Gen I gym leader theme though.

>Scrolling stages still exist
I like the transforming stages like the Mario Sunshine one from Brawl, but ice mountain and kongo falls type will always be pure trash.

Unironically game & watch. A final smash of transforming into an octopus would be like Mario's final smash transforming him into bowser.

>Pacman doesnt have his big dick walk from wheb you hit him with the slingshot too much

Actually a decent number of his animations are ripped directly from his games.
His counter animation, for instance, is actually his dodge animation from 3. That's why he doesn't take damage.

>not setting every track to 100%
You have control over it so don't bitch as if there's nothing you can do.

>Cynthia's theme is great
In the actual Pokemon games yeah, not in fucking Smash though

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This, Ice Climbers just needed a SNES game that fixed its controls, like Metroid -> Super Metroid

I could see Goroh having a bit of a different style compared to other swordies at least, maybe give him more heavy elements.

It is. Not sure why you autists expected electronic when her theme is clearly meant to be orchestral.

You can't control the other player's settings, dipshit. If you get their rules, you get their music settings.

I don't mind it being orchestral, I actually like orchestral remixes, but it doesn't sound good is the fucking problem.

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>If you get their rules, you get their music settings.
No way, Are you telling me that I can trap people in weeb land with me?

To each their own I guess.
Yea Forums loved the arrange a while back so I suppose contrarianism has looped back around.

I don't think music settings apply online

>stage with the "other" music category
>Ring a Ding isn't playing

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Yea, you can also set Electroplankton ambiance all the way up on all the stages it can show up (like the retro NES stages, Pictochat, Tomadachi, etc).
It absolutely does. I've got the MM2 medley turned all the way down and I get it every time I get Wily castle, because it always shows up on the other players' rules. And I get my niche picks on stages with huge tracklists, so I know I get my music settings, too.

Wario was always a comic relief character in Japan, and a good chunk of his moveset is ripped from Wario World.
Also, Waft is based on Warioland promotional material.

>Wario World
But that's bad. The Wario Land games are where his moveset should've come from.

No, he should be an amalgam of his different games, which he is.

How about I slap your shit?

>we never got a Naganuma remix for a Splatoon track
fucking WHY

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Patrician taste.

Holy shit
I did not know this was in the game

Game & Watch is the opposite of artistic license, his moveset had an actual basis in his games and wasn't just random bullcrap like Ness using only PSI skills he can't even learn, Samus throwing punches and kicks, and everything about Captain Falcon.

and this is why i'm glad prince of sable is still there

>Wario World is bad
Jesus christ the shit taste

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