Do we need Sonic Adventure 3?

Sonic Adventure 3 already exists and it's called Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).

No it was Heroes!

06 was SA5.
Heroes was SA3 and Shadow was SA4

No. This is actually one of the things Iizuka is right about. Going back to the Adventure formula would be a total step backwards at this point. Granted, not a very BIG step backwards, but a step backwards nonetheless. Sonic games should focus on one playstyle, not three, let alone six of them.

Now keep in mind, I said the "Adventure" formula, not "momentum", which a lot of Adventurefags tend to lump together for some reason. Because 3D Sonic DEFINITELY needs more momentum that actually functions the way it should. If Mario can get that right, so can Sonic. It's not even asking for much, and it would drastically improve the overall feel of these games. Yes, even boostshit would benefit from having proper physics, provided they accommodate for it with the level design. Which I suspect is one of the reasons why they don't bother with it. Having proper momentum in a boostshit game, while making the game feel much better to play, would also highlight the glaring flaws in the formula. Mainly: The player would just find the nearest ramp, boost into it, and then sail over the entire level. Like I said, "level design to accommodate it." That and, you know, on top of the usual "No one even notices so why bother?" mentality that I'm sure is also present at Sonic Team.

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Adventure would mean no more 2D sections.

No one likes red rings. They need to completely ditch them and add alternate exits that can open up totally new levels. And not the type of shitty levels from Colors' Acts 3, 4, 5, or 6. I'm talking full on new environment and themed zones that has its own 2 acts and a boss.

Maybe not in name, but I would love to see them polish that gameplay style and take more inspiration from 3&K and Mania in terms of playable characters sharing the same base and having a special ability or something to make them stand out

pick one

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Yes and no I feel. They should go back to the Adventure style of play, but now that they don't need to shill fishing and shooting sims for a dead console anymore, they can just keep the other gameplay styles best suited for Sonic and polish them. But this shouldn't be SA3, just make a Adventure styled game first to test the waters.

If it works, then make SA3

He really shouldn't have too. Mario isn't even good considering no one likes to talk about him, all they do is make billions of porn art and make fanfiction out of him. He's only good because he's the Mickey Mouse of Gaming. Sonic just needs better games, fans will keep him alive no matter what at this point, so just make good games, not masterpieces.

I can't believe there were four Sonic Adventure 3s and people still want more

so will this be an adventure remake or a new game that will be adventure based?

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Heroes

Because all of them are shitty versions of them, like Sonic 4 was for the classic Series. If they get a Mania Adventure, then they would be happier.

I like Red Star Rings, if they actually used your idea for them or used them to unlock challenge zones instead of how they have been using them, then that would be nice though

I think I'll pick Sonic Adventure 3: Episode Chaos Maybe Episode Battle

>new adventure game by nu-sonic team
>every asset uses lost world and forces' shitty blocky art style
>uses the lost world engine like forces did
>english scripts are rewritten by pontaff

No thanks.

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Sonic 2006 is the real Sonic Adventure 3.

Heroes is the best of the bunch.

Maybe not, I heard the concept artist for Adventure recently got rehired

People don't want a game, they just want the name.

>These kind of games almost never give you the incentive to stray from the beaten path and explore a stage for goodies and what not.
What is finding a faster route? Not to mention red rings.

bump

Because boost is the way Sonic plays, the real question is- Hub world or linearity and a chao garden with more games that's also linked to a phone game.

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bump

Adventure 1 and 2 were fucking garbage. I don't know what viral marketing or fuckery made this generation of gamingkids think 3d platformers with shit controls and horrible camera were in any way good, but someone needs to smack some sense into you kids.

They were one of the firsts of their kind, shitting on SA1's camera is like ignoring M64's camera. Yeah they were and are flawed, but for the time the leap to 3D was still impressive and it wasn't that bad.

>he doesn't know the future is already here
youtube.com/watch?v=t4SxotEjEBE

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>"excluding the overrated Sonic Mania"
>actually including a disclaimer that this isn't an official concept nor isn't affiliated with SEGA
>"I'll just label it 'Sonic the Hedgehog'"
Great find OP! And this is just the first minute!

Is this just going to be "Mr. Vulnerable and his back pack" again?

It has really fun mechanics but everything else is borked.

>perfect utopia tier physics without feeling like a movie
>perfect controls
>you feel your character's potential when you've built up so much speed
>your inputs translate directly to sonic's moves on the screen with no modifications

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Nope not as bad as that but still bad.

>The overrated Sonic Mania
Stay dabbed on, zoomers.

Why do you not spam charged drop dashes?

The idea that we should praise something bad just because it was first is beyond stupid.

And yes, it was that bad. Honestly cannot understand the fucking hype for those games. It had to be some incredible viral marketing to new gamers who didn't fucking know any better.

youtu.be/MUq6YjcRv3g

the thing to take away from this game is the engine, mechanics physics. not everything else.
the are no original stages designed to cater to this engine.this shows insane versatility given by how well it works in stages from completely different games

I used it in the first few seconds, I guess I forgot later on

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It might help certain characters (Tails) stop looking like wimps, but I don't know if I trust the current writers to handle things.

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I couldn't watch more than a few minutes of this. This guy is absolutely atrocious at presenting his ideas. At least the "wide-eyed and vulnerable" guy's video had good presentation.

Here is his Classic Sonic video.
youtu.be/MUq6YjcRv3g

The most impressive thing about this game is that it is an entirely custom engine.

Looks the fucking same as every other one of the probably dozens of goddamn sonic ball rolly simulator.

Watch all of it!

It's 'bad' because you have more modern references to base the idea of the perfect 3d platformer, let alone Sonic. It's called a humble beginning user, you can't refine a formula without tests and hypothesis. That's like shitting on early architecture because they didn't nail skyscrapers or they didn't know of steel pylons. Crash 1 was fine, they developers did what they could with limitations and built more on in with many different mechanics, more levels structured around said mechanics and so on. That applies to any and every franchise that tackled 3d platforming. And let's not get it was a jump from 2d to 3d so you couldn't really pull a Sonic 4, to sell a next gen game they had to be ambitious.

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DEAR DUMB MODERN GAMERS: WE DO NOT HAVE DEPTH PERCEPTION FOR 3D GAMES ON A 2D MONITOR

GAMES LIKE THIS ARE FUCKING STUPID BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TELL HOW THE FUCK TO DO ANYTHING BESIDES TRIAL AND ERROR AND THAT MAKES THE GAME AS BAD AS FUCKING DRAGON'S LAIR

KNOCK THIS FUCKING 3D PLATFORMING SHIT OFF RIGHT THE FUCK NOW

He needs to show platforming clips, as it is actually possible to move around Mario and Zelda areas in this game.

Sonic 3&K > Super Mario World

no

Also, Sonic Adventure > Mario 64

yikes

there is not a single sonic fan game out there with this level of polish on the mechanics/physics/controls department. you're talking out of your ass til you show proof of at least one that matches this.

ill get to make those eventually

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Was it named SA3? No? Then it wasn't.

I feel like heroes gameplay with one character and extra abilities like lost world would be the best option for a 3D sonic game.
It feels like they just drop ideas because the execution was really flawed. Watch them drop boost too now

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Literally Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic Adventure 3
>Sonic stages with Unleashed boost + Adventure non boost gameplay. No wisps.
>Beat'em up Knuckles stages. No treasure hunting
>Tails stages as some mixes with exploration, fly + platforming and some light puzzles
>Stealth stages with Rouge
>Eggman mecha stages but done better
>Non linear progress, semi open world like in Adventure 1

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One of the best games in the series IMO.

no honey, it wasn't

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Based.

I sometimes wonder if Sonic having a defined personality keeps him from being a timeless mascot like Mario. Mario is squeaky clean. He's not really a character beyond "happy adventure man who wears overalls and makes italian noises." There's basically nothing there to feel dated, so he works forever. Meanwhile, Sonic's personality was developed in the 90s when being hiphop radical was cool, and that personality has stuck around on the character long past the age of that character trope. It certainly doesn't help that pretty much every good Sonic game was made in the 90s.

I want to play coop online in it sometime.

The thing is, Sonic's character HAD changed throughout the years to become less 90's and more actually cool. The only problem is SEGA decided to revert him back into a 90's bro dude way past cool 90's trope spewing retard in 2010 with colors, and he still hasn't recovered. Compare the way Sonic acts in say, Unleashed or Black Knight to now. Back then, Sonic knew how to act cool, and when he got serious, he actually got serious. He was actually written as a likable, more timeless character. And look at now, where we have mr. Baldy mc salad underwear body odor.

>SEGA decided to revert him back into a 90's bro dude way past cool 90's trope spewing retard
Nigga what? Colors sonic is just a boring no soul kids cartoon character. It has nothing to do with 90's attitude

You can still tell that they're trying to recapture the ""attitude"" with the way he banters and does nothing but spew insults though. It's like they saw one clip from AoStH and thought that was his entire thing, just endlessly talking about how dumb eggbotnik is

AoStH is not an ideal depiction of his character either.

I know, that's why I used it as an example.

Not exactly, shadow the hedgehog had numerous problems although it was pretty fun.
I meant movement options like wall running and attacks, shadow the hedgehog had his chaos powers and gunz.

Also whilst we're at it, add chao garden, the heroes version of collecting chaos emeralds and maybe different gameplay styles for knux and tails.

Shadow had wall running and attacks.

2D Sonic is objectively better than 2D Mario.

We need to change the boost gameplay and the current writer for that to work well, so basically we would need to change everything. It doesn't really help that Iizuka sees the current direction as an improvement over what we used to have, so it's never happening.

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I wouldn't say objectively. While 2D Sonic is more fun to me and has a better soundtrack, 2D Mario games are generally better designed in my opinion.

I kinda wish Sonic Team called Sonic Heroes Sonic Adventure 3 and also fleshed out the level design and added a Chao garden to it. The mechanics in the game have so much potential, and I think it should've been a stepping stone for better 3D Sonic Titles.

I like these ideas.

Team play was a bad idea from the start since it was built around taking your time fighting enemies, there is no way to salvage it. The level design may have been good though if they weren't also based around the enemies and were extremely long in themselves.

no chao garden no buy

I just think if they had actually different levels for each team, had levels focused more on stage exclusive mechanics like the classic titles, and wasnt as heavy on length and bosses, it could legitimately be a worthy SA3.

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Be honest, if they did an improved stand alone Chao garden game with fleshed out minigames to earn rings and capsules/animals, would you still want Sonic Adventure 3?

this is great, I can already see the söyboy utopia babbies jizzing over that momentum fueled air time

The most impressive thing about the level design is that 80% of the levels were designed by Iizuka alone because the only other level designer got sick mid development.

Sonic 06 was essentially Sonic Adventure 3.

I personally kinda would like to see a Sonic Heroes game made by competent people.

So that's the reason it's padded out trash?
I can't say I care much anymore though for Sonic as a whole.

for me, sonic has always felt TOO fast in his games. Like the engine can't keep up so there's this weird middle ground, where he's going fast but being pulled back to make some crappy cinematic experience

...

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>sonic has always felt TOO fast in his games
Pretty much
Feels awful to control + every level is tiny platforms and narrow hallways
all 3D sonic games are trash

I understand Unleashed and Heroes but
>Sonic 06'
>Not Adventure Game
>Has multiple playable characters
>Has same playstyle and similar physics
>Has same story tone
>First level is literally just Emerald Coast

Sell me on this one, why are people shilling it now like they shilled for Utopia last year?

As mad some people are going to get: I think Lost World had a perfect idea of how to control Sonic, giving him a dedicated running button so he functions more like a car.

The problem is none of the level design fit with this new control scheme so it just made it feel all slow and overall shit.

im literally the only one shilling it, download the webms and join the cause
this is getting slided by the trannies shilling trash like bumper engine and other generic bs.
there is NOTHING on the market that matches this engine

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>Has multiple playable characters
With extremely little variance between them.
>Has same playstyle and similar physics
The physics are extremely stiff, only a couple staples like light dash return. The level design is nothing like them either and there were hallway sections that forced you run at a set speed.
>Has same story tone
Only to an extent, so did Shadow but it was only enough to serve as an epilogue.
>First level is literally just Emerald Coast
Visual style means nothing, how many times have they reused the green hill aesthetic in games besides the classics?

Obnoxiously shilling it isn't going to make people want to play it.
On the contrary, now I REALLY don't want to touch that shit.

>0:16
Is that Snowhead?

This is basically the boost gameplay with better controls. Which goes to show you can make Adventure gameplay as fast paced as boost era, but not have Sonic control like a car to do so.

But I'd take less level design like that and only certain areas maybe with those, and more open area to experiment with the physics.

>With extremely little variance between them.
Bitch, some characters can fly and Silver plays fucking nothing like Sonic with his telepathy
>The physics are extremely stiff, only a couple staples like light dash return. The level design is nothing like them either and there were hallway sections that forced you run at a set speed.
Physics are fucky yeah but by "same playstyle" I essentially mean the typical 3D somewhat momentum based style that mainline Sonic games had before the Boost system. Also Adventure games had their own set of scripted moments as well and 06' had plenty of open levels alongside the "step in boost pad for game to play itself" stuff
>Only to an extent
It had a more fantastical/final fantasy vibe but it kept it's overly dramatic tone
>Visual style means nothing, how many times have they reused the green hill aesthetic in games besides the classics?
Nigga, it even came with the fucking whale section.

that's fine, people will realize the quality when they try it and begin shilling it as well because it's THAT good

youtube.com/watch?v=9Lt3nWf98kI

yes

i disagree about boost, it's more utopia with adventure controls & moveset

Would it be possible to have a 3D Sonic without the homing attack?

I pick none, because none of them are Adventure tier gameplay similar to the first 2 games

youtube.com/watch?v=GfC9l7NLbS0

>emoji
>linked to phone game
neck urself

>silly reaction image triggering people
>thinking if they do a mobile version of the chao garden they'd somehow revive the gameboy to work with modern consoles
wanna know how I know you're a retarded wannabe boomer?

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This. That only counts when Mario, Crash, Spryo, Rayman, etc, actually IMPROVES the formula over the years and KEEPS it relvate to prove itself. This is why Mania is loved and only hated by underages born after the 90s

Meanwhile SA2 was the only "improvements" that even the fanbase can't fully agree on, with SEGA THEMSELVES dropping it by the third game and never looked back. It's not like SA1 was made because the classics didn't work, otherwise Knuckles Chaotix, Pocket Adventure or the Advance games, wouldn't have kept the core elements of the classic games, SA1 was purely built on technical limitations, and SA2 was rushed with what they had, not given the time to improve what was there, just polish a turd so to speak. If it was truely what SEGA wanted for 3D Sonic, Heroes wouldn't have happened. Or the Boost era would have never happened either.

Basically what I'm saying is, SA1 was an attempt. That's ok, nothing wrong with that. But it shouldn't be praised like it reinvented anything, all the examples I stated above btfo's EVERYTHING 3D Sonic started with (at least if SA1 is considered the real first 3D Sonic game). SA1's camera is just crap compared to Mario's take, so is to Rayman and Spyro. Level design is better in Spyro and Rayman, and somehow even Rayman does a better dark story than Sonic does on their first try. Crash does, nay, REIMAGINES dialog animations, making SA1's just a joke in comparision, and many many more. Unlike what Sonic 1 enable in the platformer genre, SA1 does not revolutionize gaming like the other games did better at. And that's why treating SA1/2 as anymore than "good attempts" is just proving how you NEVER played more than shitty Sonic games in all of your levels. Hell if you need a game that actually fixes outdated 3D platformer cameras, look no further than A Hat in Time.

SEGA

It would be hard and annoying to hit enemies or springs precisely, but I guess you could.

>Bitch, some characters can fly and Silver plays fucking nothing like Sonic with his telepathy
So what? The levels they're put in are still point A to B. Moving differently is only a shallow difference on the surface compared to character/archetype specific objectives and gimmicks around each and every level.
>I essentially mean the typical 3D somewhat momentum based style
That itself is full of variations and little differences. Not being boost doesn't mean it's just like what came before, there's no momentum to speak of.
>Also Adventure games had their own set of scripted moments as well
Almost every Sonic game has scripted sections, that means nothing.
>06' had plenty of open levels alongside the "step in boost pad for game to play itself" stuff
I was referring specifically to the automated sections at the end of certain levels, but the open parts are extremely slow too and require some arbitrary objective to be accomplished each and every time.
>it kept it's overly dramatic tone
It's similar sure, but it ultimately comes down to a difference in writers, the new ones were just picked off the street.
>Nigga, it even came with the fucking whale section.
That doesn't disprove what I said.

SEGAAAAAAAAA

HIRE

Have sex, like yikes. How bluepilled and scoy can you be? Dumb tranny.

>seething bumpershill is terrified his shit for brains engine got dethroned by one dev

>seething
I don't give a fuck about the fangame, I'm just tired of unimaginative fucks parroting eachother. Even back when "2edgy4u", shit got obnoxious. Why bandwagon to save face on an image board? Same with rage faces and wojaks, it's all just autistic elbow nudging.

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It's literally only one person, and I don't mean that out of spite. I do like both it and Utopia, but I can't say anything until the end of the year actually delivers or not, and I can stop caring afterwards.

Not him but nice being another 4channel nigger that follows the hivemind of being contrarian based on other people instead of actually playing games. God this site is filled with trashy millennials it's hilarious.

seething boostfag or classic fag

Yes, unless you make target's hitboxes bigger than the object itself for hittesting purposes

But if you're complaining about the momentum killing part of it, just don't kill momentum like Utopia and iirc Islands does.

I mean, when 'reddit' or any synonymous boogey man site will use seething people will coopt to something else and claim that it was (resetera,plebbit,tumblr) all along. Needing to side in an act of tribalism is depraved niggatry. I just want another Sonic Battle/The Fighters. I appreciate boost,adventure and classic 2d all the same.

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>how about we add red rings for exploration that are very easy to miss even when spotted while Sonic feels like a tank?
>how about we also add number and moon rings that unlock nothing relevant?

No. I would rather find some capsule while trying to explore a more 3d stage than a shit 2d blocky section or a fucking "3d" corridor section

How can Iizuka be right when he is the reason to change the way Sonic plays so fucking often? Boost was about to be killed to the Parkour which was supposed to be what Adventure was trying to do 20 years ago with more open stages that allowed exploration. But what we got was a terrible level design for parkour with levels still feeling like corridors, the terrible 2d sections + the same tank feel of boost era and bad "villains"

If you look back to Adventure 1, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy play the same except for their unique features be flying, gliding, hammer, etc. Just Gamma and Big were different. And that's what Sonic games should do, that Sonic gameplay and then add 3 or 4 characters using their own abilities like the Classic Era did, but with open stages in mind instead of this constant corridor shit like a racing game that simply doesnt have any replay value

>Sonic's personality was developed in the 90s when being hiphop radical was cool, and that personality has stuck around on the character long past the age of that character trope
Sonic's character has changed at least three different times over the past two decades. First he was Mickey Mouse with an attitude, then he was a generic shonen hero, and now he's a quippy Spider-Man-esque character who tells purposefully bad jokes. Even the Boom cartoon changed his character slightly to having a straight man Seinfeld-like personality (which surprisingly worked). The "radicool" shit was always more of a marketing thing.

Honestly the best interpretation of Sonic was in the OVA where he was a jerk with a heart of gold (and that was back in '96), which would easily work today considering other popular modern characters (e.g. Tony Stark) already pull that shtick.

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That's the only thing Iizuka is good at, level design. He knows about the alternative path idea right which Heroes had

You're a fucking retarded idiot.

>homing attack pops you straight into the air, losing all momentum
I'll pass.

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>appreciate boost
opinion discarded, please get back to whatever shithole you came from

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Fuck off nigger. don't understate Iizuka's genius.

>clown pepe
I thought I was in Yea Forums

>there is not a single sonic fan game out there with this level of polish on the mechanics/physics/controls department.
youtube.com/watch?v=w1CEN5gVs5Q
*blocks*
youtube.com/watch?v=X6ZXtHZib5g
*your path*

Utopia is hot dog shit and is only something desperate classic autists latch on to

>Utopia is hot dog shit
why

Which part specifically has your panties in such a twist?

I don't like how weak the spindash is, and how Sonic won't retain his built up momentum when running on flat terrain and will always slow back down to his default run speed no matter what.

Lake, stop shitposting and start working on Fark's game again.
Also, try porting Spark to another engine. Sonic Worlds is shit.

Yes I too watched that e-celeb video that told me that was a bad thing.

>have to spam spindash to maintain momentum
>allowing Sonic to spam spindash in place of building momentum naturally
>homing attack doesn't preserve momentum
>camera doesn't follow you around loops
You'll never top Islands or even Utopa.

>he thinks "e-celebs" were the first ones to say that
>if an e-celeb said it, it can't be true

Just admit you are a drone that repeats everything said in the Sonic Spitball video verbatim no need to cope.

The Sonic Adventure games were better than every Mario game expect for 64, Galaxy and Odyssey

not an argument

>he watches e-celeb sonic vids
It's bad because it results in boring enemy placement/level design that relies on homing attack chains as an "alternate path" or whatever, which are neither satisfying nor challenging to complete. It makes the homing attack into a move that's just mindlessly spammed when an enemy is close to you, instead of a tool could be used largely for traversal AND also for offensive purposes, like the spindash.

A 3D Sonic game should never have homing attack chains, really. Put a single enemy over a gap (or right in front of one) and encourage the player to conserve momentum so they can use the enemy to vault themselves over said gap. Much more satisfying to pull off when done correctly.

Again just admit it no need to lie on the internet user.

utopia ok physics wise i guess, very similar to adventure blast in that department. but blast is like a superset of utopia because of the extra moves and better translation of input to character reaction.

the 2nd one looks like a soulless unity abortion movie.

based

the earlier build used to have momentum based homing attack, but he took it out
youtube.com/watch?v=_amQfxGQAu8

yeah that's a legit complaint desu, but it's barely noticeable if you re-cast spindash. there's no downside to it

>the earlier build used to have momentum based homing attack, but he took it out
Probably because it didn't translate well with the level design/enemy placement he was using to demo his work, which wasn't designed with a momentum-conserving homing attack in mind.

You need to design levels around the inclusion of that move in order to demonstrate its usefulness properly.

...

yeah, on metal harbor enemy chain you can see how it was not translating well into adventure 2 levels

Let Sonic die in peace

I don't wanna argue with you kek just try to think for yourself every once in awhile.

>a drone that repeats everything said in the Sonic Spitball video verbatim
Most of the shit in that Spitball video was just pulled from discussions that took place on Sonic Retro years beforehand. None of the ideas in that video are anything new.

Again, I don't watch eceleb "this is how x should work / x sucks / x is actually good" videos. Feel free to explain how anything in is wrong.

This is true but nu-Yea Forums wasn't around during those days. Easy to tell because as soon as those videos came out people started parroting them to no end.

>blast is like a superset of utopia because of the extra moves and better translation of input to character reaction.
Fundamentally worse since sonic doesn't retain built up speed when running like he's supposed to, making him feel unnecessarily slow, and the engine itself feels less polished, particularly with the collision detection, which may be more a product of the levels all being imports, but still.

>the 2nd one looks like a soulless unity abortion movie.
has way more moves that better suit Sonic's design and have more utility for both speed and platforming, as well as better physics than both Utopia and Adventure Blast, since Sonic reacts to slopes while rolling more accurately than in Utopia, has a better sense of speed and momentum. Spindash is also more intuitive and more balanced with Sonic's controls.

>yeah, on metal harbor enemy chain you can see how it was not translating well into adventure 2 levels
Which is weird because an easy solution to that would have been to just put less enemies in those "chains" in order to provide more room to maneuver between each homing attack. Instead he eventually just took the conservation of momentum out, which isn't really a solution at all, imo.

It's like he's adjusting his work to better compliment already-existing level design instead acknowledging that there might be an issue with the level design itself instead.

He still enjoyed Mania a lot.

Everyone hates how open the demo is, even though it's a 'demo'

youtube.com/watch?v=StdsSPNiMsI&t

Prototype Windy Valley is literally exactly how a 3d sonic level ought to be designed.

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hm you're right about sonic returning to his default speed if you're not constantly spindashing. I'll ask the dev about it, its easily fixable

you are overestimating the retards that will review the game and ultimately decide on whether the viewers download it or not. basically if the game requires the slightest bit of skill and it can't be played on autopilot holding forward and mashing buttons, babboon nigger reviewers will make a snarky comment about it. they are too stupid to figure out you gotta ring dash in twinkle park or you will be stuck, imagine actually having to conserve momentum to make it through such a big gap

>even though it's a 'demo'
More like it uses a test level than ended up being so polished that it made people think that was the direction the Utopia team was planning to take its level design in.

that's more what I meant, yeah.

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That should have been the fucking reward for the 130 emblems. I would have loved to fuck around back then because that seems a huge testing level

>imagine actually having to conserve momentum to make it through such a big gap
Well ideally there'd be a lower path below to act as a safety net and successfully conserving momentum to cross said gap would "reward" the player with a shortcut, but I get what you're saying.

>everyone
nice revisionism

Perhaps I was over-exaggerating. But I still blame falseflaggers for the reputation it's garnered to be honest.

they should really replace all those steps with rolling hills and ramps so Sonic doesn't have to jump around all the time and can stretch his legs properly.

you could do something like this without using homing attack though

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Nah, I don't think they should replace the steps with rolling hills. The reason being that steps are a slower but easier alternative for those who don't know how to ramp off well to get higher. That way those who want to go faster through the level are rewarded while those who aren't can still do decently.

Why is it ok when faggots like this spam their youtube channels here but when you talk about """ecelebs""" the brainlets come bleeting out of the wood work

/sthg/ has started a smear campaign against Utopia since they group it in along with Mania as something the obnoxious "classicfags" praise while shitting on the games they like.

>Why is it ok when faggots like this spam their youtube channels here
It's not, though. Of course how many people in this thread are actually discussing the video's content anyway instead of just shitting on it?

it's not about rewarding skill it's about making the level flow better and giving sonic more room to run. The way it plays now, you can barely go five feet without needing to hop up a ledge, which is especially sluggish with SA1's jumping physics.

This is what happens when you take a few shitposters way too seriously. Mania has a far better reputation here and especially to the general public. And no, I'm not calling it the best game ever either, It's just amazing how obsessed they are with that game thanks to a select few shitposters falseflagging. They've pretty much ruined Tyson Hesse's reputation there for good too.

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the great thing about this game's mechanics is that you can play it with normie friendly controls, but if you want to do your own thing and break the rules, the sky is the limit

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Well to be fair, I think it's also because a lot of them feel that what 3D Sonic should be is like the Adventure games and not like the "2D Sonic but in 3D" thing fangames like Utopia go for.

What are you talking about? THere are plenty of ramps and hills that Sonic can speed off of, even where you see stairs. It has nothing to do with flow, because you can still just ramp off of things to get to higher places or far away objects. The stairs are just for less skilled players and another option for someone who might actually want to take it slower.

But Adventure was already going for "2D Sonic but in 3D". It only missed the mark because of hardware limitations/lack of polish/inability.

Adventure doesn't really have the same emphasis on rolling and slopes as Utopia does (there isn't even a button to roll), the key to building momentum in those games is spamming the spin dash.

I'm not talking about being able to ramp off of things to reach higher places, I'm just talking about the basic structure of the level. It just feels a bit too blocky with all the steps and ledges when there could easily just be rolling hills and ramps that Sonic can naturally run along. Not for the sake of letting Sonic reach higher places, but just for the sake of not slowing sonic down with jumps when it isn't necessary.

2d sonic levels had steps as wells. They're meant to be an easy for players who aren't good at the mechanics to also be able to complete the game. All sonic games have this. They don't make the game feel blocky because people can still choose to uye the ramps or hills instead of the steps. You have no complaint here.

That's true, but the prototype design of windy valley makes it pretty obvious that they had every intention of taking that direction.

And Adventure does have a button to roll, it's the spindash button

Sonic can't roll using that button though, only Tails and Knuckles

#FuckBigTheCat #FuckOmochao

wrong place, I'm afraid

Sonic was better than Mario as early as 1991, lol

He keeps rolling after the initial spindash its actually the fastest way to move in both Adventure games if you are doing downhill.

> They're meant to be an easy for players who aren't good at the mechanics to also be able to complete the game
There's nothing complicated about hills, and this isn't an accessibility thing. I don't know what's so hard to understand about it. And you act as though in the 2D games there's a choice between running on a slopped surface or jumping up a ledge, as though a specific section of level has both occupying the same space. All I'm saying is the level could use more slopped surfaces.

Save it for the next TSR thread
Ah yeah, that's true. I never really used it that way very much but I should the next time I play

The originals final battle with Perfect Chaos was so fucking hype. The lead into it, and the like...

"Chaos only used the negative power of the emeralds. Sonic...YOU should be able to harness their REAL power!"

It was SUCH a fucking letdown that "Open Your Heart" only plays through the beginning stage of the battle! It SUCKS!! Hah. And of course its easy as fuck. But it surely was memorable.

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Amy > Blaze > Rouge

Realistically Heroes would be SA3 since it's made by the same development team who worked on SA1 and 2. Shadow was just an SA2 spinoff.

The bottom 2 are just bullcrap Sega shitted out after Yuji Naka left.

The second part where some serious music plays while Chaos's gimmicks get a slight difficulty increase was kino.

I hate to disagree with you user, but I thought the following music fucking sucked. I liked how things got faster paced, and seemingly the atmosphere got darker, and the water rougher. But "Open your Heart" was too fucking cool playing during it...they should have let it continue, IMO.

06 was the closest we got to SA3 but it was unfinished so it doesn't count.
Also this

Sonic 3K >>>>>>>>>>> every Mario game ever made.

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>2D Mario games are generally better designed in my opinion
god no
sonic was the final evolution of the 2d platformer, mario wasn't.

Man, the animations bother me so much.
Sonic should be a perfect ball when he rolls.

In a perfect alternative timeline, Sonic would still be up there with Mario and 06 would have been a masterpiece.

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In 2d sonic you have multiple routes and the top routes are harder maintain. The each route would have a different manner of way to maintain moment, the easier ones, usually the ones at the bottom, having more steps and ways to block your way beause you're taking the easier route.

In a perfect alternate timeline, Mario would be long-forgotten while Sonic reigned supreme.

I wish a lot of Sonic zones really existed

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In a perfect alternate timeline, both died away

'06 would be mediocre at best if it was finished. The Adventure formula doesn't work. It was serviceable 20 years ago, but they'd eat Sonic Team alive for trying to pull that shit today

I mean, what else do we have to lose at this rate? Boost clearly isn't cutting the mustard anymore.

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06 legitimately would have been great if it was finished. THe reason why it's shit is because it was unfinished they made a majority of all level designs highly automated so that the player wouldn't fall into the many glitches and die. If the game was finished then the levels would have been better designed as well.

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In a perfect alternate timeline, your mom's boyfriend would've worn a condom

Reminder that all of the Modern Sonic 3D fangames/engines never go anywhere outside of shitty test levels and "let's keep adding characters and not focus on making new levels/we'll just import levels from other games". Utopia is the only one recently that has actually managed to say they're able to finish the game by the end of this year:
twitter.com/GreatLange/status/1080236465039130624

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No offense to Lange but... I'll believe it when I see it

>Adventure formula doesn't work

Every formula works as long as it is polished and there is passion in it.
Adventure and Parkour are the closest formulas for what Sonic is. The problem is that they dont know what they are doing, they forgot Sonic is not only speed but also about momentum, pinball physics, rolling and spindashing, alternative paths, more playable characters(at least Tails and Knuckles), having simple power ups like shields instead of wisps removing Sonic abilities, special stages, bonus stages, mini bosses and bosses, everything classic made it right

SEEEEEEEEGA
HIRE
THIS
MAN!

Why are the timeskip sagas always terrible?

why can't you guys just keep it limited to nintendo like it was originally intended

Not him but, 06's concept in the first place was all wrong so it would have been a pile of shit like Shadow was.

How about another Tails game?

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Finish the game?
But we haven't even seen a proper level yet.

Maybe they were just working on the game really secretly for the past 3-4 years? Who knows.

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Underated post. This and anyone putting the HA in fucking 2D Sonic games need to off themselves instantly.

>06's concept in the first place was all wrong
Not really. There's really nothing wrong with a final fantasy anime aesthetic. And everybody at the time thought the concept of Sonic being in the "real world" was fucking awesome. Before Sonic 06 even came out a lot of fans called it "Sonic Next" because people were honestly optimistic about it. It's retrospect that makes people dislike the concept.

>There's really nothing wrong with a final fantasy anime aesthetic.
Literally neck yourself.
It's the opposite of what Sonic stands for.

Nobody thought it was awesome back then except for Adventuretoddlers.
Everybody else either dropped Sonic like a sack of shit that the became with the 3D game or played the Advance games.

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>It's the opposite of what Sonic stands for.
What do YOU think that Sonic stands for?

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Anyone that goes "unreal/unity is le shit" are the most cancerous, contrarianous faggots on the entire planet. Like "these engines are bad because it's the Photoshop of video game development", it's retarded. Sonic Infinity is made in fucking Unreal, which Sonic fan devs said was a bitch to use for Sonic games, and it looks vastly better than Forces by literal lightyears, and on part to Unleashed to the point a non shit dev team like Sonic Team SHOULD have made the boost series looked like by the time Lost World happened instead of that trash they rather bothered doing in the first place

Off yourselves. I'd rather take a unfinished tech demo than 06 or SA1, which are tech demos with shitty unpolished gameplay that's made into a finished game.

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>It's the opposite of what Sonic stands for.
Fucking kek imagine but this far up your own ass

People were having problems with aesthetic and tone as far back as Adventure. 3D sonic still had a identity crisis. It’s a big reason Mania is praised its a consistent follow up to Sonic and Knuckles.

"stands"*

It doesn't stand for Final Fantasy weaboo anime crap.
Sonic was primarily influenced by western cartoons from the golden era along with art deco and american pop art.
Sonic was unique.

You have no argument whatsoever.
Sonic turning into a generic Final Fantasy clone is not an improvement.

>People were having problems with aesthetic and tone as far back as Adventure.
Nice revisionism

>2d sonic levels had steps as wells.
Examples? I litearlly can't think of any outside of Sonic 1 level design, which was Mario esque and dropped until Colors brought it back.

No, but here's how it would work.
You get 3 playable characters, Sanic, Shadow, and Knuckles.
Sonic team does Sonic's stages, Platinum does Shadow's and Knuckles's.
Sonic's levels play like Sonic Advance.
Shadow's levels play like Vanquish.
Knuckles sections have typical Platinum combat but with the gem scavenging in SA2.
There you go.

>Not really. There's really nothing wrong with a final fantasy anime aesthetic.
And off yourself. Sonic + Jap sucks donkey dick and only works when you make a fantasy like CD, but keep it contained to the "Mobius" characters. Humans only worked in Unleashed.

>Sonic was primarily influence by 90's era western cartoon shit
>Sonic was unique
Yeah, he was about as unique as everybody else was at the time he was conceptually created.

Look, the only thing that matters to Sonic is being cool. That's all that matters. At the time, Final Fantasy was cool.

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>Sonic + Jap sucks donkey dick
Lol
>Sonic + Jap sucks donkey dick
Humans worked great in Sonic Adventure and Sonic X. Humans in Sonic ought to be like humans in Mario Oddysey.

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>Sonic was primarily influence by 90's era western cartoon shit

>Golden Era Cartoons
>"90s"
Gas yourself you retarded zoomer.

Name one character that was as cool as Sonic in the 90s
The only character you got was Crash years later. As someone that likes Rayman, even Rayman wasn't Sonic tier cool until Rayman 3

Not him but Sonic WAS unique not just as a character, but his gameplay even to this day is unrivaled.
Inb4 muh Freedom Planet

Final Fantasy was never cool.
It has always been nerdy weebshit.

>Sonic Adventure
Kek. What did they even do to be rememberable? I can at least remember half the humans in Unleashed
>Sonic X
Topkek. Literally 90% of the cast was unlikeable and annoy, namely Chris Chan Thorndyke. The military + Sonic is pure autism as bad as SatAM.

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Well the 90s was when Sonic was most popular and the style that he was known for at the time so if the 90s is not what the original user thinks is the golden era then he's fucking wrong.

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But it’s true. Remember all the flame wars over Eggman vs robotnik or earth vs mobius

He really can't be based on 90s era when the first 4 games took place before the mid 90s. 91 would mean he had to take inspiration before the 90s truly started.

Autistic cartoon/comic fags don't count and are subhuman.
Also that had nothing to do with the Adventure redesign

>Inb4 muh Freedom Planet
I liked freedom planet alot but I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
freedom planet 2 when? the demo came out a year ago wtf

>Hesse poster
Yikes, nevermind. There's no point in even trying to debate with you.

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Hey, don't lump me in there just because he's using it to shitpost. I like Hesse Sonic too, just not for the same reasons they do.

>its better than sonic's best
Again, be retarded elsewhere. Nothing tops Sonic's momentum based gameplay, especially one that doesn't actually have it lol.

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Freedom Planet 2 is superior to classic Sonic in every way.

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See and how can it when 2 isn't even out yet? No basis, no argument.

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If I made Sonic Adventure 3 I would just take the last season of Sonic X and make a game out of that, obviously without the retarded kid in it

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Stop shilling your stupid shitty channel and your shitty video on this board.

this is egoraptor purposefully fucking up SA tier autism, user

You're right, my bad. It's not better than classic sonic. It's GOING to be better than Classic Sonic when it's released.

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>but I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
>reading comprehension

Name a moment in classic era Sonic you can do that. I'll wait.
This isn't Sonic 4 user, Sonic doesn't play like that.

Stay delusional.

learn to read before you call people retarded, I didn't even disagree with you

>I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
>I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
>I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
>I wouldnt say its better than sonic's best
>I WOULDN'T

You mean WITH the cute kid in it

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Remember when most sonic fags were actually quite looking forward to both Sonic AND Freedom Planet 2 during those Mania pre-release threads? I miss those, it was better than people constantly trying to turn it into a contest.

based
and it's not because Sonic has so many shit games, it's because Mario's fundamentals are much stronger than Sonic's
Super Mario Bros was already practically perfect right out of the gate, whereas a perfect Sonic game is impossible because of the shitty ring system and the constant tug-of-war between running and platforming

That's not the kid I was talking about, I was talking about the human kid who I'm too lazy to find a picture of.

>t. spends 10 minutes on mario levels because he can't play well enough to make level design flow

Sonic's design was inspired by Golden Age cartoons from the 20s to the 50s.

fair enough

No shit
He has the potential to but he's not handled by anyone who is capable of reaching that amount of potency.

He's doomed to stumble constantly.

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>a perfect Sonic game is impossible because of the shitty ring system
>because of the shitty ring system
>the shitty ring system
>ring system
>shitty

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Your threadly reminder that Modern Sonic is destined to become a DMC5-esque Hack n' slash game with Sonic, Shadow, and Silver featuring combat segments and speed segments.

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I honestly disagree and I hate the ugly Dreamworks wannabe designs in Unleashed.
The ones in Adventure 1 I didn't mind too much because they were very low detailed and cartoony. Also their dialog was much funnier.

You can blame Hesse posters for ruining Mania for everyone. And also the classic cucks who say that only classic games are good.

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I'd be fine with that honestly.

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Humans in Adventure 1 were like the humans in the Japanese Classic Sonic artwork or the Man of the Year cartoon short that was included in Sonic Jam.

Humans in Adventure 2 and Sonic X were shit.

That'd be fucking great actually.

If they don't have garbage like treasure hunting or mech shooting, I'd be for it

based

>combat segments and speed segments
>Split segments games
I hate this dynamic so much

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>implying he wasn't owning mario at the height of his popularity

Actually tails/knuckles have a normal roll button
It's just that sonic's spindash replaces it when running for some reason

The Metarex saga was so bad.
You Sonic X fags remind me of SATAMfags.

I hate the Unleashed humans. They all look like absolutely ugly characateurs of people. The one human design that looks good to me is the Adventure 1 human design.

If you want to play DMC5 so much, why aren't you just playing that?

I did.

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Then stick with DMC and asking to turn other games into DMC where it doesn't belong.

>Implying I was implying anything
I simply said that Sonic can't reach his potential because his idea is held back by his developers.

But is we're going back to the mid90s,
I'd say he stumbled until he got to Sonic 3 where it clearly was combating the quality of Mario from World to 64
I'd say Sonic 2 definitely humbled the fuck out of nintendo and put them at risk. But Sonic 2 was still full of stupid problems that Mario never seemed to run into.

Sonics game design definately allows for more mobility options than Mario but the quality of design was very questionable until 3 where it became 50/50 questionable to probably 20/80

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*stop asking

Yeah the human designs in SA1 were perfect for NPC's who are so supposed to be unimportant.
Unleashed gave too much importance to the NPC's when they're supposed to be...y'know...NP FUCKING C's?

to be honest the meme could really be reappropriated for sega seeing as they really did fulfill a "hire this man", and the entire community generally agrees that they could do with some serious fixing at this point with how fucked Sonic Team is

>Sonic 2 was still full of stupid problems that Mario never seemed to run into.
Like?
>inb4runningintoenemies

>the quality of design was very questionable until 3 where it became 50/50 questionable to probably 20/80
>

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What's the point of adding anything non Sonic cast if they are fucking pointless? Even Forces made their "NPCs" actively matter to the plot of the game.

If they don't matter, don't waste time with that shit. Heroes, Colors, and even ShTH does this right. ShTH actually makes the only most important humans matter, and everyone else either dies off or just isn't there.

>Sonic 2 was still full of stupid problems
Special Stages full of blindsights and it relies heavily on memorisation than reaction
Everything after Aquatic Ruin turning slow and boring
Metropolis in general full of terrible placements of enemies and being 3 acts of a chore level
Wing Fortress and Sky Chase dropping the excitement down.
Death egg having no rings whatsoever making it pure trial and error
>But its hard, gitgu-

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FPBP

To give more life to the world.
The way Adventure 1 did it was harmless and inoffensive.
The NPC's shouldn't matter to the story.

Shadow was even more retarded than Adventure 2 what with the the President having a picture of Sonic and Shadow in his office. That was stupid.

Yeah but that's not Mania's fault. That's taking shitposters way too seriously, that's kinda on them if I'm being honest.

>Shadow was even more retarded than Adventure 2 what with the the President having a picture of Sonic and Shadow in his office. That was stupid.
No that was comedic kino.

the only thing i disagree with here wing fortress and sky chase bringing the speed down because theyre meant to be slower set-pieces that build tension that pays off in the Death Egg. Its like walking up a long stairway to the final boss and it adds drama and a visual flair that Mario doesnt compete with in the slightest.

>Everything after Aquatic Ruin turning slow and boring
>Wing Fortress and Sky Chase dropping the excitement down.
I disagree
>Death egg having no rings whatsoever making it pure trial and error
Every fucking nintendo game has trial and error bullshit and y'all love them so fucking much

>To give more life to the world.
Then make more wildlife like 3D Blast did because Sonic is a blue rat, not a blue human.

You two can disagree all you want but it's clearly evident in the design that it's made it pad out the end.
Slow aerial sections
Platform sections with pits
Lots of waiting for platforms
Trapping you in rooms with objectives

Sonic excels when it's a level that gives you the ability to flex yourself but it absolutely stumbles in the second half of Sonic 2 and throughout Sonic 3.

>Every fucking nintendo game
Mario World is the only game released from Sonic 1 to Sonic 3
Please educate me what it does that absolutely qualities as something as irritation-inducing as Sonic's Metropolis and Death Egg Zone.

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But Eggman is a human. Hating on humans just because they are humans is autistic, if they do nothing to hinder the game and only add to it then they are a welcome addition.

>Slow aerial sections
>Platform sections with pits
>Lots of waiting for platforms
>Trapping you in rooms with objectives
Now you're just making shit up

>Mario World is the only game released from Sonic 1 to Sonic 3
>Mario world is the only game you can compare it to

you mean sora from kingdom hearts?

And? He's the main villian, he's actively trying to kill off wildlife. Again if the humans matter, do it like in ShTH (and I cna't believe I'm giving that shitshow of a game a good merit), focus on the important shit, and not waste time making models of needed shit. The classic games took place in nature, so just stick to animal life like Sonic's cast of 100% animals.

The classic games aren't the end all be all of games, technology improved so you are able to create bigger more populated worlds they should take advantage of that and create a world that feels more alive and populated, the humans in Sa1 do this. Also no fuck the other animals they look like absolute dogshit next to the main characters atleast with the humans you have some variety seeing how they are a different species

Calling it padding is disingenuous because its purposefully designed to pace out tension and release at the end of the game. Metropolis, while being the worst fucking thing in history, isn't put in because fuck it, but to create an extremely challenging (sometimes unfair) challenge before the true climax of the game, which functions as an Ornstein and Smough for the final act. Sky Chase is 2:16 of nothing but its a breather after 3 acts of the worst fucking thing ever. Wing Fortress is the next step up in difficulty where it introduces the idea that not even rings can save you because most of your deaths come from bottomless pits or the boss that always seems like a crapshoot to me. Had i made sonic 2 i would have given 1 ring or a checkpoint between Silver Sonic and the DER so players felt like they had a short respite instead of "oh god 2 bosses no rings so hard"

additionally, while i find everything after Aquatic Ruin less than stellar, each level has a unique gimmick and atmosphere to it that helps establish a really solid difficulty curve and makes everything except Oil Ocean extremely memorable in my opinion.

The Ring system was actually great in the case of Sonic because it meant that, while you still failed and took a hit because you sucked, it wouldnt impede the speed of the game much at all. As long as you had one ring, you can keep running. The goal is to eventually not need any rings at all, and to speedrun the fuck out of that level constantly. Perfect game design imo

He lives

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The absolute reading comprehention of classicucks
>ram into the enemies like swordmaster cavaliere
I hope so

Hey, I'm not a "classicuck" just for liking classic sonic on principle, right? I just don't wanna be lumped in with the others I guess.

pretty baste

>The classic games aren't the end all be all of games
I never said that retard, how many times do I have to say humans work when the point of them is importance to what's going on? Why would Sonic be anywhere outside of nature, that's his homeland. Being in the city should be a novel, not a living space. Eggman's plot is to wipe out wildlife for his robot army. It gives him little to do otherwise and it shows when he barely mattered in SA1 to Unleashed, and SA2 only let him fit in thanks to Shadow forwarding the narrative.

>Why would Sonic be anywhere outside of nature
Because he likes seeing new places?
>Eggman's plot is to wipe out wildlife for his robot army.
No its to take over the entire world with wacky over the top plans. The death egg didn't exist just to destroy wildlife.
>It gives him little to do otherwise and it shows when he barely mattered in SA1 to Unleashed, and SA2 only let him fit in thanks to Shadow forwarding the narrative.
And why is this a bad thing? Eggman was a great character in both Adventure games the best he has ever been in fact Eggman doesn't need to be the big bad to work his character is good enough on its own. Also it gives the games way more variety when there is something new to deal with every game.

This is not why you play videogames, kid.

I think this is the fundamental problem with modern gamers. All of them have some fucking delusional shit in their brains planted there by frustrated writers who have failed at traditional story media to push their fucking bullshit, and all the fucking modern "gamer" kids have fell for it.

Gaming should be simple and all about the game. Anything extra is unnecessary, distracting, and detrimental to the fucking game itself.

When kids actually realize and take this to heart, the fucking corrupted, shitty modern gaming era will collapse in on itself and hopefully be reborn in a new, glorious true gaming age where games aren't fucking bullshit.

Nice projection you reddit spacing retard. The classics are my favorite in this franchise but you have to fucking evolve the series at some point you can't make the same game for 20+ years or it will get stale. Mario can only do it because he is nintendo's mickey mouse and the only game to buy on their consoles and even then they add a shit ton of extra shit to give the game life and personality. I guess by your logic they should remove graphics too and just have sonic running around on gray blocks and slopes because all of that other stuff is just extra and distracting to the core gameplay.

I think you're looking too far into the nature versus industrialization angle. Sonic isn't just nature, okay? If he was then they wouldn't have given shoes, or a skateboard, and that 90s outfit. Sonic isn't about nature. He's just supposed to be a cool dude who doesn't like being tied down who does what is obviously right.

So you agree with me? Maybe you replied to the wrong post.

I'm not the guy you responded to. but yeah, I meant to respond to the other guy.

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I don't care about 3D Sonic games, none of them are good imo

I don't care about 2D sonic games. They're boring and not fun.

Can we not

i agree with this but im inclined to support the hedgehog more when it gets a good game every 15 years

The objective truth

Hi cwc

Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed was better than Mario Kart 8

Yes, they need to bring back Underground and the important characters people care about

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No. Adventure 1 and 2 are objectively bad games.