"M-muh interactivity!"

Like what? Sniffing their own farts?

a bad game sure but a good interactive experience maybe, what does it matter as long as you enjoy it? who gives a fuck if it's a "game" or not

Considering these are literary academics they'd probably just find both of them laughably lacking in depth and nuance when it comes to their themes/plot in relation to literature in general.

>Sniffing their own farts?
If that contributes to the advancement of mankind, then yea.
What are they gonna get from Shitmata?

A game with good gameplay

This
Games are for kids

>who gives a fuck if it's a "game" or not
People who want to play a video GAME?

What an uncontroversial opinion. That won’t net you very many replies, OP. You gotta say something that will incite a shitstorm to really rake in the (You)s.

it's on the name

But why get caught up in the name so much? If you enjoy cinematic experiences then who cares.

well it's a story in a game, there never was a good one

>cinematic experiences
Then you could just watch a movie.

They probably don't care for it because video games aren't books. Video game stories seem pretty shit-tier when you analyze them in a vacuum because they're not meant to be experienced that way.

The great thing about the internet is that you have all the gameplay footage and game reviews that you need to let you know whether or not you’ll enjoy a game before you even purchase it. If you don’t like “interactive experiences,” then don’t buy them. The people who do enjoy them will buy them.

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Spec Ops is a joke compared to any decent war literature and it does a massive disservice to its medium by guilt tripping the player character in a linear call of duty game.

Because I want a game not cinematic experience, and the industry is focused on vomiting cinematic experiences, selling them to people who don't play games, and giving them GOTY awards

Well, play something else then
There's ton of games with good gameplay, but games with actual good story and writing, there's less than ten of them (if we compare them with other medium like literature or cinema)

Probably one of the worst games I've ever played.

Combat is shite, just same combos over and over.

Exploration is tedious. The only good area is the theme park which is over in 2 seconds.

The story is WOT IF ROBOTS ARE LIKE US which is been done to death. Plus they make it edgy with some naked dudes. WOT IF THE HUMANS ARE LIKE ROBOTS?!?!

It's also filled with bugs - Not spawning enough objects to complete the quest.

Abysmal. Get some fucking taste.

offtopic but it really does say a lot about video games that breaking the 4th wall is what people see as "The medium being utilized to its fullest"

Then that is your preference (as well as mine). I just don't get when people seethe when they hear someone else enjoying those types of games just cause it doesn't fit with name "video game".

Unironically and absolutely this. Gameplay first, waifus second and everything else after.

The last big budget cinematic experience game I can think of is The Order 1886, which got absolutely shit on even by game journos.

TWD season 1, Wolf Among Us, and Tales from the Borderlands were great, though.

So the Final Fantasy games are crap. Sure

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they are both jokes, when it comes to actual academics I would show them kotor 2 or deus ex

I only seethe when I see faggots go on about how video games are some misused superior medium that should put more focus on stories.

Spec Ops is trash
>don’t want to call in white phosphorus?
>too bad, literally infinite enemies will spawn until you do
>haha now you’re a bad person

I want to have fun

>Why'd we kill all these people?
>There was literally no other option-
>WEALWAYSHAVEACHOICEHAHAHHAYOU'REEVILFAG

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It also doesn't help when you consider the meta message always seems to be "[video game genre] is shit and you should feel bad for playing/enjoying them".

I hate fun and the people who have it.

Well it's just sad that a medium with a unique narrative (the interaction between the player and the game) already reached his peak 20 years ago

When will these interactive experience "games" get a name for themselves so they stop calling them games

>graphics don't matter
>OOOOO WOWEE A NEW HD RE RELEASE RE MASTER SUPER GAMER HD EDITION OMFG THANK YOU BASES SONY!

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>if you don’t like it, just stop playing the game you already payed $60 for :^)
I think we can all see who’s really in the wrong here

>What is Planescape: Torment?

Remind me of Funny game's controversy
If you don't want to play as an evil douchebag, stop playing the game

How has no one brought up Undertale in this discussion yet? It's arguably one of the few games that compliments its great story with great gameplay mechanics.

Remember when Gibson shit on Cyberpunk for completely missing the point of cyberpunk as a genre? Like that, except it'll be longer winded and more nitpicky.

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>Game gives you choice
>PLOT TWIST FAGGOT, YOUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER

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I feel like the only genre of the games that can't subsist on pure gameplay quality alone are RPG, but even those don't need an overarching or pretentiously "deep" plot as long as the world and environments are interesting and fun to explore and, optionally, if the characters and creatures you interact with are charming or fun to talk to. All the Mario RPGs (except for the nushit) nailed this -- no one is expecting a compelling plot out of a Mario game but the world provides a great motivation to keep playing on top of tight gameplay.

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>don't try anything new with a new medium

Man, motion pictures should have just stayed as fifteen second captures of people walking. If I wanted stories I'd read a book.

Man, books should have stayed as collections of factual knowledge. If I wanted to hear whimsical tales I'd listen to the wandering gleemen.

Ug ogg cavepainting hunt, og eek ook Gods ug og stare at sun.

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*ahem*

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RPG Maker is where great game concepts go to die.

More like what is drakengaurd 1 and 2 and the original Nier

automata is the opposite of most yoko taro games in the fact it has good gameplay but shit story

>I feel like the only genre of the games that can't subsist on pure gameplay quality alone are RPG

Mainly because it's inspirations (table top rpgs) is story driven. But there's also the discussion of how mechanics+story in video game rpgs are lackluster when compared to their counterpart.

>think all food is icecream and gumdrops
>one day someone gives you something spicy
>wtf that's not food
No fag. If the product delivers on what it intends to do, it's good.

I remember reading it from someone's blog, but I love the analogy they used when talking about this. Saying video games should focus on story is like someone saying movies should focus solely on music. You can technically have a movie that's just a still frame that lasts for an average runtime, but that's no different than someone uploading an album to youtube. It's gimmicky and one-note and only impresses people who don't know anything outside of that.

I still regret Drakengard 1, it was only £5 but god damn its awful

>. Saying video games should focus on story is like someone saying movies should focus SOLELY on music.

I want you to look at that and see what is wrong with comparing something that has a heavy focus on one aspect with something that ONLY focuses on one aspect. Do you look at a pie graph and go "Well all these different colours come in my crayolas so they're all the same thing :)"

Fuck up cunt.

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A better analogy would be the guy giving you a drink with something small to eat when you just asked for food

Well if it kept you engaged and you played it until the end it cant be a bad game

Like breath of fire 2

fuck I mean 1 and 3

You're right. A better comparison would be the movie just being random footage that is technically passable for the medium, but leaves much to be desired. Similar to many cinematic/interactive experiences.

Game is perfectly serviceable in that regard

you are so wrong it's just and engine it's all about what you do with the engine.

same goes for unity, and game maker they have their own bad press on them, though game maker not so much now but back in the day people didn't take game maker games seriously

Finish the statement.
A bad game with a good story.

the game wasn't judging the player you retards

Engines have limitations and restrictions. It's not just "what you do with the engine", it's also "Was the engine even handle what I want to do well?" Anyone who's worked with rpgmaker will tell you, while simple, you might as well be using duct tape and glue to get the most basic shit done beyond.

>Game literally does shit like condescend towards the player for gunning down "innocent" people
>the game wasn't judging the player you retards

I guess technically I could make Half-Life 2 in RPG Maker if I tooled with it enough. The barrier for entry being in the Mariana Trench means that 99% of people will never do more with it than poop out boring SNES tier RPG systems. It's sickly and it negatively influences game designers in sinister ways. Every popular RPG Maker game would have been far better if the devs had the freedom even something like Game Maker gives. That's why Barkley Gaiden is the best game to come out of RPG Maker... because the devs went away from RPG Maker!

>But there's also the discussion of how mechanics+story in video game rpgs are lackluster when compared to their counterpart.
I actually think this is a good thing.

By now I think that RPGs, as a genre, have moved past just being digital counterparts to tabletop roleplaying games. I wouldn't call it "lackluster", moreso "streamlined" and tweaked to be more accessible for a far larger market. I think Pathfinder: Kingmaker is a great example of how directly translating tabletop RPG mechanics into a video game is a bad idea, because anyone who's never played Pathfinder before considers that game to be overcomplicated, not to mention all the bugs that I feel came as a result of trying to digitally replicate such an intricate system as Pathfinder.

Ironically, modern tabletop RPGs are actually starting to look more like video game RPGs as they begin to streamline their rules and move away from old-school intricate RPGs. Video games are the larger and more successful market now, after all.

>So the Final Fantasy games are crap.
They are.

>Final Fantasy
>Bad gameplay

Why do u answer yourself

>being literally so autistic you can't distinguish two opposite opinions because one is sarcastic and the other isn't
And yeah, FF games are garbage, deal with it.

Imagine being this dense

So a movie with no gameplay is a bad movie?

true though my counter point is limitations though inspire creativity e.g yume nikki,

barkley gaiden plays just like a rpg maker game there was no point of even making it in game maker imao, it's clear the dev had lots of experience using rm so why go through game maker to make something you could have made in the easier engine.

a lot of the best rpg maker games are more story focused as rm's built in engine is not really that fun to play unless you do a lisa the painful and tweak it a bunch and make every enemy unique in game.

True but OFF is still a very good game despite its limitations and clear flaws in gameplay.

So we're finally admitting Chrono Trigger is bad?

No u
MY mom said it u re garbage hahah garbage boy!

sounds like nearly every Sony exclusive

>what does it matter as long as you enjoy it?
Not OP. But I do think it matters. It's all about how it's framed and how it's marketed.
Take Visual Novels. Visual Novels can be great and cool, and that's splendid. But Visual Novels don't market themselves as games and are pretty straight up and honest about being multimedia novels.

But then you've got """""games""""" that are more movie than game and yet they act like they're games and market themselves as games. It's dishonest and of poor taste.
If you made a moviegame and was just honest about it being a movie. Fine.

Take Black Mirror's Bandersnatch for instance. Should it be nominated for an Oscar or a Game of the Year award?

Can you not conceive that the people behind the game are trying to explore the themes and don't actually hate the player for playing?
Are you really incapable of experiencing Spec Ops without feeling personally attacked?

I can't speak for Nier but I wish a slow and painful death towards anyone that shilled Spec Ops. Most bland third person cover shooter I ever played.

>barkley gaiden plays just like a rpg maker game
Dare you forget the B.A.B.B.Y. system? Or the set pieces like the quick time events? Even the movement being smooth and having a stamina bar helped the game's pace a lot. To say nothing of the visual effects that were possible with GM.

Stay mad faggot

>Game, at multiple points, criticzes the genre of game it's in and even goes as far as to shit on the player for enjoying said genre
>DUDE IT'S NOT SAYING THAT

>Are you really incapable of experiencing Spec Ops without feeling personally attacked?
What a loaded question. Are you really incapable of accepting that Spec Ops is a half-assed game that only achieved cult status for having themes and ideas that it doesn't even execute well?

rpg maker games shine for their effective use of story telling and visuals just like a lot of jrpgs, because when we are honest a lot of jrpgs have a lot of flaws in their battle systems a lot being repetitive the same or to grindy

all of that is achieve also in rpg maker with a few plugins or script writing.

>moviegame

This term might actually carry some weight if people around here didn't use it as a replacement for "thing I don't like" when people have little argument against a games mechanics.

I studied English Literature, and was originally going to Grad school to specialize in it and possibly become a professor. I'm by no means an academic but I understand what they do and have studied the basics of it.

This
Is the most basic answer. Even videogames with amazing story can be reduced to pretty generic plots with some twists thrown in. Most of the 'best videogame stories' are really just ones that are executed well, and provoke some emotional response.

WALKER CAN'T SEE THE LOADING SCREENS!

>literary academics
They don't have time to play video games, they're too busy working at McDonalds

books and movies are for kids
you see? I can generalise too!

then play something else

I don't like fighting games but I don't needlessly shitpost against them
Other people may not like MMO games like RuneScape, which I like because it's fun to make bots for them and sell game currency, and that's OK too

Sekiro subjectively has the best gameplay of any From game, but I got tired of it after the 1st playthough. I've poured hundreds of hours into each Soulsborne game however

it doesn't just end at gameplay

this is true.
Deadly premonition is a fantastic experience
but it's also a bad game.

>Sekiro
>Soulsborne
herewefuckinggoagain

>Are you really incapable of accepting that Spec Ops is a half-assed game that only achieved cult status for having themes and ideas that it doesn't even execute well?
No. I share this opinion. I think the game is heavily flawed.

Still doesn't change the fact that it seems that you can't experience a work that criticizes itself and the consumer without feeling personally offended.

Videogames are not games any more than fleshlights are lights.

>soulsbabbies finally understand that gameplay doesnt matter as much as atmosphere
took you retards long enough

Just cause you can't do NG+ don't means the gameplay somehow became bad

>What is Deadly Premonition

Twin Peaks for weeaboos?
Resident Evil 4 for blind people?

> Witcher 1
> VTM: Bloodlines
> Pathologic
> Spec Ops: The Line
> KOTOR 1 & 2

And I could keep going...
The most important thing in a game is to be immersive. If it does that, their flaws can be as many as you want as long they dont break that.

Most of those got good gameplay

>Sekiro subjectively has the best gameplay of any From game
That really doesn't say a lot, though. It's still fucking FromSoft.

Elaborate. Why does a major component of video games, literally how the game plays, not a major detriment to those games? Imagine a book that reads like a fanfiction or a movie shot like some kid's shitty youtube videos being excused because: "Well, the story's good!"

It's hard to end up with a straight up bad gameplay, though. Mostly it stops at just bland and mediocre, and great story can easily making playing through such gameplay worth it.

It's hard to get immersed when the gameplay is really bad though. You didn't think this post through.

>Immersion
>When the game is a buggy janky poorly designed piece of shit
LMAO

>implying I should have to chose between either having shit gameplay or shit story
>implying devs aren't a bunch of incompentent fags that think missing the mark for 50% of the game is perfectly aceptable

It's no Crime and Punishment.

That's a thing that happens. But people who are able enough to write a good story are usually able enough to deliver said story with some quality.

But it can still be entertaining. It's just that the gameplay is not the entertaining part.

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> as long as it doesn’t break that

No one is talking about bugs. Bugs precisely are one of the things that break inmersión the most

Again, gameplay is vital, no one says that without it you could have a game. What Im saying is that you can enjoy games with bad gameplay as long as the other elements of the game cover for it (including story).

The game does literally do the opposite. It tries to "delude" the player into thinking that they do the right thing, because that's what happened to the MC. It's not hard to understand.

No one's arguing you can't enjoy a game with bad gameplay. The subject of the thread, however, was that a game with bad gameplay is just bad. Enjoying something and it being bad aren't mutually exclusive.

Well the Stanley Parable was fun.

>Game gives you choices
>They do actually matter
I know literally 1 (one) non-VN 3D game that did that so far

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Depends what you mean by "immersive". Good consistent gameplay that feels like it follows its own rules is pretty immersive no matter what that gameplay is.

Immersion is a retarded term that means something different from every person you ask. It's literally a euphemistic word for "This game has things I like."

>Yea Forums defends trash like Neptunia and Senran Kagura because of waifushit, despite having bottom of the barrel gameplay
Hypocrites, the whole lot of you

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Except I shit on Neptunia and other trite as much as I shit on garbage like Witcher.

That's a really strange comparision

yes but still it's hardly a good GAME strictly speaking, it's semantics and principle, but autists have a need for absolutes hence this thread
OH WAIT I CAN FIND AN EXCEPTION YOUR BROAD RULE IS THEREFORE NEVER TRUE