Rate Zelda games

>Zelda II
6-7/10
>everything else
None of them above a 5.

Ocarina of Time: 10/10
Majora's Mask: 9/10
Wind Waker: 7/10
Twilight Princess: 8/10
Skyward Sword: 7.5/10
Breath of the Wild: 9.5/10

>A Link to the Past
9/10
>Link's Awakening
8.5/10
>Oracle of Seasons
8/10
>Oracle of Ages
7.5/10
>Minish Cap
7.5/10
>Phantom Hourglass
5/10
>Spirit Tracks
5/10
>A Link Between Worlds
8.5/10

>b-but Sony

>The Legend of Zeldaa
3/10
>A link to the past
7/10
>Link's awakening
8/10
>Ocarina of time
4/10
>Majora's mask
7/10
>Wind waker
8/10
>Twilight princess
7/10
>Breath of the wild
7/10

I can't wait for people to call me a redditor or weak bait for my opinion.

>WW over MM
Faggot with no taste

>LoZ
8/10
>AoL
6/10
>ALttP
9/10
>OoT
10/10
>MM
10/10
>WW
10/10
>TP
8/10
>SS
2/10

Objectively
> Ocarina of Time (GOAT, 10/10)
> A Link To The Past (10/10)
> The Legend of Zelda (8.5/10)
> Link's Awakening (8/10)
> Majora's Mask (9.5/10)
> The Wind Waker (9.5/10)
> Twilight Princess (7.5/10)
> Skyward Sword (5/10)
> Breath of the Wild (8/10)

OoT: 9/10
MM: 8/10
WW: 9/10
TP: 10/10
SS: Didn't play
BotW: 9/10

Wind Waker is objectively bad, if we're talking about objective.

Only ever finished OoT and Link's Awakening, while I dropped Majora's Mask at Great Bay Temple.
Which Zelda should I play?

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Zelda 1: 7/10
2: 2/10
Lttp: 5/10
LA: 8/10
Oracles: 9/10
OoT: 8/10
MM: 10/10
MC: 10/10
WW: 10/10
PH: 8/10
ST: 6/10
TP: 10/10
SS: havent played
ALBW: 7/10
BotW: 3/10

>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
11/10
>Wind Waker
9/10
>Twilight Princess
9.3/10
>Skyward Sword
1/10
>Breath of the Wild
11/10

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wind waker is one of the few zelda games where it actually felt like a proper world for you to explore and its style has a lot of charm which still holds to this day. botw was an empty field of seeds and repeated mobs

A Link to The Past and Twilight Princess

The Legend of Zelda(Nes): 7/10
Link' Adventure: 8/10
Link's awakening: 9/10
Link to the past: 10/10
Oracle of seasons/ages: 7/10
Ocarina of Time: 10/10
Majora's Mask: 9/10
Windwaker: 8/10
Twilight Princess: 7/10
Master Quest: 10/9
Skyward Sword: 6/10
BoTW: 8/10

By the sound of it, either a link to the past or twilight princess

sorry bro I like WW's concept a lot but you have to be blinded by nostalgia to put WW's world above BOTWs.

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Hmm. Is Twilight Princess HD the optimal version?

>botw was an empty field of seeds and repeated mobs
WW did this too. Remember the ghost ship that carried nothing but enemies we've already seen?

I believe so. I played it on the Wii and it was great but the HD version looks a lot better and probably plays just as well.

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>Is Twilight Princess HD the optimal version?
Yes, but the most comfy version is the GameCube version.

The last time I completed wind waker was a year or two before I got botw. If anything it's familiarity. Even then, nothing gave the same feelings of seeing the ghost pirate ship for the first time and later on entering it, finding desolated islands with small dungeons with their own unique design and music and just meeting characters moving about in the world, unlike the MMORPG quest givers of botw's empty world.

>Any game being a 10
I prefer to go with the fetish rule for dealing out that score. How is something so good that you honestly don't know how to improve it?

Considering that I played OoT 3D, I don't think I particularly care about "comfy"

OoT: 0/10
MM: 0/10
WW: 0/10
TP: 0/10
SS: 0/10
BotW: 0/10

Horizon Zero Dawn 10/10

Zelda Killer.

Then the WiiU version is right for you.

Oot and botw: 10/10
MM, WW and TP 9/10
SS: 8.5/10

Nope, not taking the bait.

I love Kass!

Majora's Mask:
9.5/10
Ocarina of Time:
7.5/10
Wind Waker:
7.5/10
BotW: 6/10
Twilight princess: 5.5/10
Skyward Sword: 3/10

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>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
9/10
>Wind Waker
7/10
>Twilight Princess
9.5/10
>Skyward Sword
8.5/10
>Breath of the Wild
10/10

>OOT
9/10
>MM
9/10
>WW
8/10
>TP
6/10
>SS
4/10
>BOTW
7/10

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Wind Waker does have this undeniable vibe to it that's infectious. But BOTW recreates that vibe and more with more varied environments and such a free-flowing exploration and world system that is unmatched.

Ocarina - 9/10
Majora - 10/10
Wind Waker - 8/10
Twilight Princess - 6/10
Skyward Sword - 3/10
BotW - 7/10

Zelda 1 - 7/10
Zelda 2 - 9/10
Oracle of Ages - 7/10, 8/10 when I understood what I was doing
Minish Cap - 9/10
Four Swords Adventures - 9/10
Phantom Hourglass - 7/10
Spirit Tracks - 9/10, 10/10 Zelda
A Link Between Worlds - 7/10
Tri Force Heroes - 3/10 what the fuck were they thinking

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>giving WW anything but a 6/10
It does not hold up outside of looking nice, brehs.

OoT: 8.5/10
MM: 8.5/10
TP: 9/10
WW: 6/10
SS: 7.5/10
BotW: 7/10

Call the cops, I don't give a fuck.

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>Ocarina of Time
8.5/10 - It's a classic for a reason.
>Majora's Mask
10/10 - My personal favorite.
>Wind Waker
7.5/10 - Didn't age well. Too easy and unfocused, doesn't have enough dungeons.
>Twilight Princess
6/10 - Worse than Wind Waker. A shittier and easier OoT.
>Skyward Sword
8/10 - Horribly underrated.
>Breath of the Wild
8.5/10 - A fantastic game.

>8/10 - Horribly underrated.
It deserves all the shit it gets.

Move botw to top tier and MM3D to low tier and I agree
move Links awakening to god tier and I agree

>The Legend of Zelda
10
>Zelda 2
10
>a Link to the Past
10
>Link's Awakening
10
>Ocarina of Time
10
>Majora's Mask
10
>Oracle of Seasons
9
>Oracle of Ages
10
>The Wind Waker
9
>Four Swords
7
>Minish Cap
8
>Four Swords Adventures
8
>Twilight Princess
9
>Phantom Hourglass
9
>Spirit Tracks
9
>Skyward Sword
0
>A Link Between Worlds
10
>Triforce Heroes
8
>Breath of the Wild
10

REMINDER IF YOU RATE MM OR WW ABOVE TP AND SS YOU OBJECTIVELY HAVE IRREDEEMABLY SHITTY TASTE

If we're just doing 3D games:

OoT: 10/10
MM: 10/10
WW: 8/10
TP: 7.5/10
SS: 6/10
BotW: 8.5/10

MM above TP and SS is fine, WW is not. It's unfinished and only has cell shading going for it.

It really doesn't. It deserves SOME shit but its better ideas and dungeons are far too readily swept aside for focusing on the things it did wrong.

OoT: 7.5/10
MM: 8/10
WW: 6/10
TP: 6/10
SS: 7/10
BotW: 6/10
This is truth.

>The older I get the more I realize the only LoZ game I really like is MM
Are there other games like MM? Maybe not necessarily the time mechanics but the more involved interactions with NPCs while still focusing on gameplay first?

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Why do people hate skyward sword?

>skyward sword
>better than botw

MM's actually good, though. I do struggle to see deeper objective appeals to WW, it just feels like an inferior 3D Zelda through and through.

I'm you except I recognize that botw is a 6/10 at most

Motion controls play a big part also repetition

It didn't pay attention to the faults of TP and continued to focus on motion controls well after everyone got tired of them.

It has puzzles that require logic and can't be abused by physics and combat with some sort of depth so yes.

Motion controls and intrusive handholding for the most part.

Putting MM at the top is a good way to show that you are a NPC

This is the most refined taste I've ever seen in Yea Forums since VTM. Cheers nigro.

the ability to progress using your various abilities is one of the big strengths of botw. It's almost at immersive sim levels

>Zelda 1
6/10
>Zelda II
4.5/10
>LttP
9/10
>LA (DX)
8.5/10
>OOT
8/10
>MM
10/10
>Ages
8.5/10
>Seasons
9/10
>Four Swords
7.5/10
>Wind Waker
5/10
>FSA
Haven't Played/10
>MC
6.5/10
>TP
5.5/10 (my candidate for most undeservingly overrated)
>PH
6/10 (my candidate for most undeservingly hated)
>ST
5/10
>SS
4/10
>LBW
8/10
>Tri Force Heroes
Haven't Played/10
>BotW
7/10

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>5 hour tutorial
>empty sky
>simon says combat
>backtracking
>levels aren't connected to each other
>fetchquests
>motion controls don't work
>backtracking again
>constant waggleminigames
>first two dungeons are just corridors
>rehashed fetchquests with cosmetic changes

I really want to play WW again but I'm too lazy to dig out my GC and buy another controller for it since mine's busted
I hope the rumor that they're releasing the HD version for the Switch soon is true

All this, plus a story that fucked up the rest of the games just for the sake of being the first in the timeline.

>triforce heroes- 3/10
its 8/10 with friends

Only ever liked the GBC ones. But I'm enjoying breath of the wild more than I expected.

BOTW is definitely an 8/10.
It's not the second coming of Christ like everyone keeps claiming but it's the best 3D Zelda I've ever played and it's considerably better than any PS4 open world games except god of war

t. Idort

It takes away from puzzles which are a core aspect of the series and even then the puzzles in BotW still don't require much thought with other methods.

Four Swords Adventures is a perfect ten with friends and a 9/10 alone. How do they regress from a 2004 game that badly?

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the adventures of link
5/10
>links awakening
6/10
>Oracle duo
7/10
>aLttP
10/10
>minish cap
4/10
>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Wind Waker
3/10
>phantom hourglass
3/10
>Twilight Princess
8.5/10
>Skyward Sword
6/10
>Breath of the Wild
4/10

>OoT
9/10
>MM
9/10
>WW
8/10
>TP
8/10
>SS
7/10
>BotW
7.5/10

>Zelda II
>4.5/10
>ST
>5/10
This was almost a good list.

>Ocarina of Time
7/10
>BotW
9/10
>TLoZ
8/10
>ALttP
7.5/10

OoT
6/10

MM
9/10

WW
8/10

TP
4/10

SS
2/10

BotW
7/10

I didn't really like FSA when I played its co-op but that might have to do with how annoying the GBA screen gimmick was

>Ocarina of Time
8.5/10
>Majora's Mask
7.5/10
>Wind Waker
9/10 but I've never played it (played phantom hourglass and that was 9/10)
>Twilight Princess
4/10
>Skyward Sword
2/10
>Breath of the Wild
9/10 but ive never played it

From what I've played so far
>Link to the Past
7/10
>Ocarina of Time
8/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Wind Waker
8/10
>Twilight Princess
9/10
>Skyward Sword
6.5/10
>Link Between Worlds
9/10
>Breath of the Wild
9/10

>Fi is easily the most intrusive and annoying partner
>Very handholdy, see Fi
>The imprisoned
>Sky is even more empty than WW sea
>Motion controls just for the sake of motion controls, the boss key needing them is the biggest example of this
>just repeat the same 3 areas all game with only one of them being mechanically interesting
Skyward sword is just boring, I never even finished it because it didn't offer anything new.
It's clear the OOT fatigue had set in for most the fans by that point which is why BOTW had to shake things up.

Contrariancore faggot detected

>"This game is shit because I can't beat it."

I've beaten Zelda 2. Doesn't make it less of a shit game.

Popular opinion bad

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>putting WW at the bottom and having SS higher than BotW

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>zelda
Pure kino, underrated
>zelda 2
Ehh, it's okay, I just suck
>link to the past
Kino
>OOT
Pure Kino
>Majora's Mask
My favorite
>Wind Waker
Pure Kino (dungeons are shit though, everything else makes up for it)
>Twilight Princess
Kino
>BOTW
Pure Kino, second favorite

You can say something but that doesn't make it true. There is nothing especially bad at all about Zelda 2 or ST.

>or ST

Not that user but ST's overworld is irredeemably garbage. Not even "by Zelda standards", it's just the least fun thing I have ever put up with in mainline Zelda.

BoTw: 0/10

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From Best to Worst

God Tier
>Link's Crossbow Training
Almost Perfect
>Zelda BOTW
>Link To The Past
Great
>Zelda 1
>Zelda 2
>Majora's Mask
>Link's Awakening
>Wind Waker
>Skyward Sword
Good
>Ocarina of Time
>Twilight Princess
>Minish Cap
>Spirit Tracks
Shit Tier
>Triforce Heroes(Holy shit I regret buying that game so bad)
>Phantom Hourglass

(I dont really like ranking stuff in numbers)

You're overexaggerating, the only actually bad parts to it are the waiting and enemy trains and waiting is just as bad if not more so in Wind Waker.

I'm not, it took me 5+ years to beat ST because I routinely dropped the game for a year plus after I was done dungeoning and had to engage the overworld at length. A real shame, too, ST lowkey has the best dungeons of any Zelda in the past decade. The bullshit inbetween kills it, though.

ALttP: 9.9

OoT: 10

LA: 9.5

MM: 10

WW: 9.3

TP: 8.8

SS: 8.8

BOTW: 9

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Awful

Crossbow Training: 10

Freshly Picked: Tingle's Rosy Rupee Land: 9,5

Tetra Trackers: 10

Triforce Heroes: 9,8

The Legend of Hitler: Wand of Holocaust : 8,9

Alundra: 9,5

Didn't play the others.

Objectively based and correctpilled.

>no faces of evil, wand of gamalon and zelda's adventure
pure pleb

>Zelda II
10
>A Link to the Past
8
>Link's Awakening
10
>Oracle of Seasons
9
>Oracle of Ages
9
>Ocarina of Time
8
>MM
10
>Minish Cap
9
>Phantom Hourglass
10
>Ocarina of Time (3DS)
8
>MM 3DS
2

>OOT
9.5/10
Replaying OOT on the 3DS reminded me how fantastic its pacing and atmosphere are, and how seamlessly the world content leads into each dungeon. Not to mention the build up of experiencing the world as child link and then seeing the devastation later. It's a perfectly constructed game. Not a 10/10 solely because today it does feel a bit basic mechanically since the other 3D Zeldas borrowed so much. Also, no, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess aren't the darkest 3D Zeldas. It's OOT as adult link.

>Majora's Mask
8/10
Some great side content and some wonderful imagery, but it's also the one 3D Zelda that feels like a derivative spinoff of a previous game. Worse, it feels a bit lacking in content compared to OOT.
For better or worse the time mechanic is ultimately pretty inconsequential, and apart from that it's not really doing anything interesting mechanically that OOT didn't. The Deku and Zora aren't particularly fun. The Goron roll is, but it's underused. Also there are only 4 dungeons and only one of them is all that great.
I feel like MM is a game that seems better in recollection because most of what you remember is the opening and closing hours, with all of the crazy imagery, but on replaying the games it was clearly the weakest 3D Zelda by some margin.

>the rest of the 3D Zeldas
I had written a bunch about Wind Waker but it was going too long. Let's just say I think all of the other 3D Zeldas are 9/10-9.5/10s and do certain things extremely well but are hurt by either a lack of good content (Wind Waker, BOTW) or design/pacing issues (Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess).

And yes I think Skyward Sword is just as good as the rest for its wonderful dungeons/sub-dungeon areas, combat mechanics, and its art design and tone. That one might be a 9.5/10 for me even though I understand why people take issue with it. (I had no trouble with the controls but yes Fi is very annoying in the first half of the game.)

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Agree entirely.

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Eh. I'd rather figure out the intended way to do a puzzle, than exploit some physics trick and feel like I cheated not only the game, but myself.

>how fantastic its pacing and atmosphere are, and how seamlessly the world content leads into each dungeon.
That alone isn't enough for the game to deserve the high ratings it gets, the dungeons themselves and combat are extremely subpar.

>the dungeons themselves and combat are extremely subpar.

The actual fuck, user. By 1998 standards that was anything but true. Some of the best 3D level design out there and you couldn't find better close combat until a few years later with Devil May Cry.

Can a WWfag justify to me rating it highly? I can't fathom how anyone could walk away from the game and not consider it half-baked in a lot of areas.

>By 1998 standards
Giving a game a pass because of its age is fucking retarded, especially because the practically all dungeons in Zelda games up to that point were good.

Nostalgia/first game.

Seconding the hell out of this. Game's got great story, art, and item synergy no it's not devoid of positive qualities but in regards to pacing and dungeon design it's bottom of the barrel stuff by franchise standards.

>OOT
8/10, was a 10/10 when it came out

>MM
9/10

>WW
9/10

>Twilight Princess
7/10

>Skyward Sword
6/10, a select few bosses and story beats are Kino though.

>Breath of the Wild
9/10

>MM3D in same tier as OoT N64
a big fat no from me

>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
9.5/10
>Wind Waker
9.5/10
>Twilight Princess
8.8/10
>Skyward Sword
9/10
>Breath of the Wild
9.5/10

I wish I could be this uncritical of literally anything. The world must seem like an amazing place when you're this easily Impressed.

One, OoT's dungeons are good. I would argue that Forest, Water, Shadow and Spirit Temple are all franchise highlights. Two, OoT can get away with its age in some respects because not only were some of its masterclass ideas innovative but they still hold up. Swordplay in OoT isn't the absolute smoothest anymore but it sure as shit was back then and it still remains respectably playable even now. It's no longer the cream of the crop after 20 years but much of OoT's designs that don't directly pertain to the technical limitations of the N64 still hold water, it's still a perfectly fine game 20+ years later and overall better than damn near all of the sequels since.

The rest:

>LoZ
10/10
>AoL
8.5/10
>ALttP
10/10
>Link’s Awakening
10/10
>Four Swords
5/10
>Four Swords Adventures
7/10
>Tri Force Heroes
6/10
>Minish Cap
7/10
>Oracle of Seasons
8.5/10
>Oracle of Ages
8.6/10
>Phantom Hourglass
6.5/10
>Spirit Tracks
8.5/10
>A Link Between World’s
8.5/10

Also I’m ammending Twilight Princess to an 8/10

>stop liking these games i don't like wtf

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>OoT's dungeons are good.
Give reasons instead of regurgitating an unbacked opinion.
>OoT can get away with its age in some respects because not only were some of its masterclass ideas innovative but they still hold up.
"Age" is nothing more than a way to rationalize bad mechanics and make them seem better than they are. Just because you had shittier standards in the past doesn't mean the game is magically better than it really is. The quality of ideas means nothing if none can be properly put to action.

>OoT
9/10
>MM
7/10
>WW
9/10
>TP
8/10
>SS
6/10
>BotW
7/10

BotW could've been so much better if they completely removed divine beasts and made dungeons on the scale of Hyrule Castle.

>Give reasons instead of regurgitating an unbacked opinion.
Not him, but how much of a retard do you have to be to insist someone needs to provide evidence that the game on more “top ten games” lists than any other game has good dungeons?

You’re the one who has the burden of proof here.

But here’s a tip: no one, literally no one, gives a shit about your thoughts regarding Ocarina of Time.

I can ask you the same thing, why are OoT's dungeons bad? The first couple of child dungeons are a bit undercooked but Jabu Jabu's Belly starts getting its shit together a bit before the adult dungeons come in with strong pacing, dungeon gimmicks and spatial reasoning and navigation. Do I really have to spell out stuff like the shifting rooms and corridors of Forest Temple, the water management and myriad of pathways in Water Temple, the emphasis on observing the unseen in Shadow Temple, or the mixture of child and adult shenanigans in Spirit Temple? And your age rebuttal is a bunch of nothing that fails to refute my assertion that the mechanics still hold up just fine now, let alone their benchmark creating quality when the game was new. You speak of standards and yet fail to see that OoT, for its time, was a standard raising game.

>how much of a retard do you have to be to insist someone needs to provide evidence that the game on more “top ten games” lists than any other game has good dungeons?
Not a reason.
>You’re the one who has the burden of proof here.
Alright. The layouts are linear, the puzzles are overly simplistic (requiring you to either look around the room or beat a few enemies to progress), and the bosses are extremely easy.
>no one, literally no one, gives a shit about your thoughts regarding Ocarina of Time.
Why did you bother replying then?
>why are OoT's dungeons bad?
See above.
>strong pacing
There's way too much backtracking around some central hub space which really hurts the adult dungeons.
>dungeon gimmicks
They were extremely hit or miss. The water levels in the Water Temple made it a slog for example. The only actual exception to this is the Fire Temple since it didn't have any gimmick in particular.
>spatial reasoning and navigation.
Both of these are overly simplistic in nature.
>the mechanics still hold up just fine now
Just "holding up" doesn't make them good, enemy ai is way too predictable and their attacking options are either to charge at you or slash you. There's no depth or challenge to it at all.

>Nobody ever rates the 2D Zelda games
>When they do, they rate AoL low like the retarded secondaries they are

Embarrassing

I'LL give you some opinions

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>he didn't know you could just jump and slash as you fall back down to hit a darknut every time
Sad!

I only played the 2D Zelda games when I was young and was too stupid to ever figure out what the fuck to do.
Maybe I'll go back and play them.

>Ocarina of Time
8/10
>Majora's Mask
2/10
>Wind Waker
7/10
>Twilight Princess
5/10
>Skyward Sword
3/10
>Breath of the Wild
8/10

>>Majora's Mask
>2/10
>>Wind Waker
>7/10
Booo

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Has anybody ever verified that was the intended way to do it? I'm not even sure it's a safe tactic against some of the later variants but it's been a while. I can't imagine you were intended to fight them with superhuman reaction time/patience the normal way

I will only rate the ones I played
>OoT
9/10
>MM
10/10
>Oracle of Seasons
8.5/10
>Windwaker
9/10
>BoTW
9.75/10

fuck does everyone hate skyward sword for?

>The layouts are linear
I don't believe non-linearity is inherently superior, not that there's anything wrong with that but conversely there's also nothing wrong with a well designed and focused linear progression. Besides, if you want non-linearity from OoT you can find that in the order you tackle these dungeons as that ISN'T set in stone.

>the puzzles are overly simplistic (requiring you to either look around the room or beat a few enemies to progress)
That can come down to a number of things, from devs not knowing what the fuck they were doing in 3D at the time (again, this was an industry leading effort in its heyday) to being primarily targeted at children like every other Zelda, and it's not like the puzzles in Zelda were ever much more complex than what OoT threw out there save maybe the Oracles.

>and the bosses are extremely easy
Point conceded there and it's always plagued 3D Zelda. You can count the number of legitimately great bosses in a 3D Zelda on one hand. But again, these games are primarily designed for kids and I can tell you that I had trouble with some of them when I first played the game at like 7, almost 20 years ago.

>There's way too much backtracking around some central hub space which really hurts the adult dungeons
I don't see how, that element is present but if you're constantly finding new paths or engaging the hub in new ways then I don't see the issue.

to be cont.

Whatever I'll do it.
>LOZ
8/10
>AOL
3/10
>ALTTP
8/10
>LA
6/10
>OOT
7/10
>MM
9/10
>OOA/OOS
6/10
>WW
5/10
>MC
6/10
>TP
7/10
>PH
4/10
>ST
5/10
>SS
4/10
>ALBW
8/10
>BOTW
8/10

10: Perfect
9: Amazing
8: Great
7: Decent
6: Good enough
5: Mediocre
4: Bad
3 - 0: Different levels of horrible

It's as better than WW but nobody wants to admit it.

>The water levels in the Water Temple made it a slog for example
Only if you get lost, which is a recurring issue for many people's first playthrough of the game. It's paced fine as intended but it's very easy to get stumped and feel like you missed something on another level. However, that also makes the level one of the best exercises in spatial reasoning.

>Both of these are overly simplistic in nature.
One, early 3D game devs didn't have enough know how to get crazier with that. Two, it's not necessarily a good idea to get crazier with that. I love the Gravity Rush series for example, one of the few franchises I've seen to have the potential to actually progress the level design ideas of a game like OoT but fuck if people wouldn't get lost as hell with so much spatial freedom to pay attention to.

>enemy ai is way too predictable and their attacking options are either to charge at you or slash you
That's kinda what they had at the time, and what's funny is I think enemy AI has gotten worse with later games, not better. I think TP and WW built upon OoT's mechanics but don't have any enemies as competent as OoT stalfos or as threatening as OoT iron knuckles.

>I'm not even sure it's a safe tactic against some of the later variants but it's been a while.
The blue ones can shoot beams so there's some risk there, but otherwise, it's perfectly safe. It's another story though if you include the birdmen in the Great Palace.

>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Wind Waker
9/10
>Twilight Princess
8/10
>Skyward Sword
8/10
>Breath of the Wild
10/10
>Link's Awakening
11/10

Never trust a man who gives WW a 9, his opinion is worthless.

Not only will I admit it, I've been the first to assert it around here on more than one occasion.

Spill it user, this thread needs discussion.

>ocarina
10
>majora's
10
>wind waker
9
>twilight princess
8.5
>skyward sword
7
>breath of the wild
9.5

Spill what? That WW, a game with good concepts let down on nearly all fronts by its rushed development, is worse than SS, a game with divisive elements and inconsistent quality in having both radiant highs and abysmal lows? Yeah, a game that's sporadically brilliant is better than a game that merely aspires to be brilliant but never quite gets there.

Ratings based on a "objective-biased" score out of ten.

>ZELDA 1
7-8/10

>ZELDA 2
4-6/10

>ALTTP
9-10/10

>LA
7.5-9/10

>OOT
7.5-9.5/10

>MM
8-9/10

>WW
8-8.5/10

>TP
8-9/10

>SS
6.5-8/10

>ALBW
8-9.5/10

>BOTW
8.5-10/10

>I don't believe non-linearity is inherently superior
That in itself isn't necessarily bad, but it conflicts with other elements like the backtracking.
>devs not knowing what the fuck they were doing in 3D at the time
I understand that, but like I said, you can't overlook the low quality only because of the reasons for it.
>it's not like the puzzles in Zelda were ever much more complex than what OoT threw out there
Zelda 1 was complex, albeit due to how cryptic it was, Zelda 2 was complex because the layout combined with the enemy placement forced you to weigh your options and LA had a few good puzzles like the pillars in the tower dungeon. I don't remember ALttP enough to fairly judge it though.
>I don't see how, that element is present but if you're constantly finding new paths or engaging the hub in new ways then I don't see the issue.
There's nothing wrong with it in itself, but there's nothing right about it either, it only serves as padding to lengthen them.

>Only if you get lost
Even if you don't, you'll still have to reset the level several times to get to places like locked doors and such. It goes back to what I've already said about backtracking at that point.
>that also makes the level one of the best exercises in spatial reasoning.
Fair enough.
>early 3D game devs didn't have enough know how to get crazier with that.
>That's kinda what they had at the time
They could've at least tried harder to faithfully translate what was already set in stone between the past games. Of course console limitations also come into play there, but it still makes the final product worse. It disappoints me even more since they got complacent after that with later games and made them worse like you said.

I was expecting a hugeass pasta that compared and contrasted the weakness and strengths of the WW and SS. Like quests, imo, WW had some the worst while SS had some good ones thanks to character interaction.

>all 3D

Why won't you play the goat 2D ones

>Ocarina of Time
9/10

>Majora's Mask
9.5/10

>Wind Waker
8.5/10

>Twilight Princess
8/10

>Skyward Sword
6/10

>Breath of the Wild
10/10

Attached: ZeldaBotW_thanks_B_1080_1920.jpg (1080x1920, 1.28M)

Take this as consolation.

Attached: WW is shit.webm (640x360, 2.52M)

>numerical ratings
Video games are not lawnmowers

Attached: 1548336888609.jpg (960x756, 66K)

I mean, for strengths SS has
>generally decent dungeons
>decent sidequesting due to the structure of Skyloft and gratitude crystals
>the desert region which is consistently excellent
>the smoothest implementation of item management to date with the pouch system
>the Ghirahim boss fights
>the ability to swing your sword more freely than in past entries

while WW has
>one of the best standalone stories in Zelda
>an enduring artstyle
>comfy sailing
>exploring the sea post-initiation of the Triforce quest
>good use of items in combat
>above average grottos for a Zelda

but then for weaknesses SS has
>TP's most controversial mistakes (like the tear hunts and an overlong intro) magnified
>Fi bothering you for something inane every 2 minutes
>the Imprisoned boss fights
>a semi-pointless sky to wander around in
>hit or miss motion controls that don't pertain to the sword

And then stuff like the other regions or exploration being traded for more dungeony bits being sort of a neutral thing. For weaknesses WW has
>zero good dungeons. Seriously, none of them are better than even OoT's child dungeons
>very tedious sidequests across the board
>almost equally tedious main quest pacing, it never hits a comfortable stride
>the appeal of sailing undermined by the series still following the gating conventions of the N64 Zeldas, you can find an island but still get gated out of it which really ruins the appeal of exploring before the Triforce quest
>speaking of which, the most infamous main story pacing killer in all of Zelda, the Triforce quest
>parries making swordplay a joke if you have passable reflexes

Overall, SS has more minor issues in number but WW's issues are much more crippling.

I can't comment on SS as I never played it. On WW:

>Strengths
WW's plot is not only among the best standalones as you quite rightly note (not as good as MM but honestly what is), but also works well in tandem with its neighbours. Ignoring the split timeline shit, WW is a satisfyign sequel to Ocarina's story.
Sailing... comfy, sure, but I'd list it as a neutral for WW. The Swift Sail is perhaps the only good thing about the HD rerelease.

>Weaknesses
WW dungeons are all fine and fit in the upper half of Zelda dungeons easily. They are too easy, yes, as is everything in Wind Waker. However for pace, flow, variety, use of items, aesthetic and atmosphere they pushed the boat out relative to prior Zelda games. The roster is overall better than TP, which has some pretty strong dungeons all the same.
Otherwise I'd emphasise just how easy almost everything is. If any Zelda game screamed for the investment of alternative difficulty settings and economy tweaking then it's this one. (Ocarina has a worse economy but it doesn't really matter)

Ultimately SS has perhaps the single worst aesthetic in a mainline Zelda title, which combined with a particularly gruesome Link and some dodgy looking cutscenes was enough to put me off ever buying it.

>it conflicts with other elements like the backtracking
The thing with the backtracking is that I don't think that conflicts with anything. Organically done, you loop around to a hub and find a new path to continue on in the linear progression. The contextual inclusion of a hub doesn't really interfere with anything there, if anything it probably just saves space and removes the illusion of a dungeon being one long corridor.

>I understand that, but like I said, you can't overlook the low quality only because of the reasons for it.
I think that's unduly harsh towards not only OoT, but an entire era of games where devs basically had to learn how to walk all over again. If you can't appreciate OoT for its accomplishments then there's almost no way much of what came from that gen can mean anything at all. 5th gen was a bit like pre-3rd, they were figuring it out as they went. Some stuff from back then is unplayable, but some of it is also still good.

>Zelda 1 was complex, etc.
Sure, but not necessarily for the sanest of reasons. I do hold utmost respect for the labyrinthine design of Zelda II dungeons, though. A shame chalice dungeons in Bloodborne aren't better, that shit's basically a modern take on Zelda 1 dungeon design.

>They could've at least tried harder to faithfully translate what was already set in stone between the past games
I think OoT was a pretty fair try. That said, it's easier to manage crazier layouts in 2D than 3D, that extra dimension makes it way easier to get lost and people already complained about the Water Temple.

>WW dungeons are all fine and fit in the upper half of Zelda dungeons easily.
WW had the most boring dungeons of the 3D what you talking about?

Not exactly ratings but effective enough

What I mean by "gameboy controls" is the lack of buttons forcing constant pausing to swap items and killing any sense of rhythm the game has. I can't enjoy them in their present form but I'm optimistic I'll enjoy LA on Switch

Attached: zeldareactions.png (1674x2166, 1.52M)

>WW dungeons are all fine and fit in the upper half of Zelda dungeons easily.

I can't agree with that. Dragon Roost works as a first dungeon but ultimately doesn't really stand out for any particular reason. Forbidden Woods is probably the best overall dungeon but ONLY because the Deku Leaf is the best item in the game and its intrigue carries the rudimentary puzzles found within. Tower of the Gods has a solid back half but the first floor goes by agonizingly slowly thanks to the shifting water levels. Earth Temple is a poor man's mirror shield dungeon with tons of floormasters for Medli to get caught on, though funnily enough Medli herself is fun to use. Still, not even a scratch on Spirit Temple or even Ikana Castle. Wind Temple has the best sense of spatial reasoning with its central room but Makar's no fun to lug around and the samey interior makes it a slog to get lost in. Lastly, Ganon's Castle is basically a greatest hits gauntlet, with its only particularly good ideas being the falling sword puzzle and the puppet Ganon fight. None of them are outright unbearable but they all feel like off brand Zelda.

I am interested actually, since you've put some thought into this, recount the few Zelda bosses worth counting on the hand of goodness. And also the particular standout turds if there are any.

Attached: 1548563631077.jpg (613x470, 60K)

>I don't think that conflicts with anything.
It forces you to go fetch items over and over throughout the dungeon. That ends up taking up a lot of time without actually adding to the experience because the dungeons have lots of long winding paths.
>If you can't appreciate OoT for its accomplishments then there's almost no way much of what came from that gen can mean anything at all.
I get that it's important for the contributions it made for the genre and that it deserves respect for that, but I don't think that should translate to the quality of the game itself. It's not as if I hate OoT at all though.
>I think OoT was a pretty fair try.
Without a doubt, I just believe it's important to acknowledge its shortcomings and give it an objective rating instead of saying it's perfect or nearly perfect and completely ignore all that. It really makes me sad to see the wide difference in quality between the 2D and 3D titles when there's a lot the developers could do about it 2 decades later. They just gave up entirely now with BotW being such a departure.

>Ocarina of time
6/10 has not aged well
>Majoras mask
9/10 has aged alot better
>Wind Waker
5/10 pretty as fuck tho
>Twilight princess
4/10 too edgy
>Skyward sword
2/10 do i need to explain why
>Breath of the wild
8/10 a flawed game but definitely the most ambitious, bold and imaginative of the franchise
>A Link between worlds
10/10 didn't want it to end

>People are rating PH shit while praising ST.
Holy shit, Yea Forums has such garbage normie tastes. Temple of the Ocean King must have really been a pleb filter or something. I can understand those who dislike both equally because of the controls. But Phantom Hourglass is objectively superior to Spirit Tracks.

Attached: IMG_6348.jpg (609x419, 39K)

Shit. Goht from MM, any Ghirahim fight from SS, Puppet Ganon from WW, Thunderblight Ganon in BotW...that's about all I got. There's a few on the fence (Barinade from OoT, Gyorg in MM, Zant/Ganondorf/Blizzeta in TP, Koloktos in SS) but a LOT of them are basically spectacle puzzles moreso than proper fights. Turds are mostly in the TP camp actually, I'm hard pressed to think of much worse than stuff like Armogohma, Fyrus or Morpheel.

>LOZ
7/10
Golden Axe Warrior is vastly superior
>AOL
6/10
extremely difficult but overall a good NES game
>ALTTP
7/10
>LA
8/10
>OOT
7/10
>MM
9/10
>OOA
6/10
>OOS
7/10
>WW
6/10
>MC
N/A
>TP
5/10
>PH
3/10
>ST
3/10
>SS
N/A
>ALBW
7/10
>BOTW
9/10

gay

you all low rate skyward sword but i bet you had fun playing it with the wii mote

except for fi, we all hate fi

no u

Zelda 1: 6/10
2: 2/10
Lttp: 8/10
LA: 7/10
Oracles: 8/10
OoT: 9/10
MM: 8/10
MC: 9/10
WW: 8/10
PH: 7/10
ST: 6/10
TP: Haven't Played
SS: Haven't Played
ALBW: 8/10
BotW: 9/10

):

Kinda feel like the ends justify the means with the item fetching, it gives the player something to do in the dungeon. Besides, if you're not doing some contextual shit like Forest Temple's ghost hunting then you're scurrying around for small keys anyways. The other bits I do agree with, I feel OoT's got a solid foundation across the board but there could've been a lot more done these last 2 decades to improve upon what it accomplished. There's been refinement for sure but not much in the way of astronomical leaps in quality aside from graphics and framerate obviously.

TP and SS are more linear, story-oriented entries. If you like Zelda for the exploration then there's not much for you with those entries. They do, however, tend to have pretty good dungeoning elements with TP having some of the most inspired gimmicks in the series and SS having the balls to basically turn the overworld into extended dungeons. They're flawed for sure but also not devoid of strengths.

>Dragon Roost works as a first dungeon but ultimately doesn't really stand out for any particular reason.
True, Dragon Roost is the blandest of the dungeons. I still love darting outside the dungeon into the outer ledges visible from the sea.
>Forbidden Woods is probably the best overall dungeon but ONLY because the Deku Leaf is the best item in the game and its intrigue carries the rudimentary puzzles found within.
At least half true.
>Tower of the Gods has a solid back half but the first floor goes by agonizingly slowly thanks to the shifting water levels.
I still enjoyed the first half despite that. It would have been good if, after doing the first bit of the first half, a switch would've presented itself that let Link adjust the water level for easy moment. Preferably a switch would've appeared in the middle of the chamber for easy access from all points.
>Earth Temple is a poor man's mirror shield dungeon with tons of floormasters for Medli to get caught on, though funnily enough Medli herself is fun to use.
I agree but I wouldn't say it's a bad dungeon because of this. Bland but it works just about. Medli definitely could've been used more, like in the entire game since her mechanics were solid (Makar too I guess).
>Still, not even a scratch on Spirit Temple or even Ikana Castle.
Well that's not saying much, since Spirit Temple and Ikana Castle are one of the greatest dungeons and subdungeons respectively in the Zelda series. (seriously I adore Ikana Castle, more interesting that Stone Tower ultimately which is still a great dungeon. MM was like this for all the dungeons bar Snowhead.)

>10

>Ocarina of Time
4/5
>Majora's Mask
5/5
>Wind Waker
4/5
>Twilight Princess
3/5
>Skyward Sword
2/5
>Breath of the Wild
4/5

Attached: 1550030302.jpg (500x242, 16K)

>Wind Temple has the best sense of spatial reasoning with its central room but Makar's no fun to lug around and the samey interior makes it a slog to get lost in
See, I wasn't amazingly in love with the giant propeller room but it has its virtues. I never had a hard time getting lost in corridors but did find the propeller room's various floors a bit of a chore to iron out. The corridor with the many fans was great in particular.
>Ganon's Castle is basically a greatest hits gauntlet, with its only particularly good ideas being the falling sword puzzle and the puppet Ganon fight.
Well that's true, Ganon's Tower doesn't even count as a dungeon. People use the phrase "final exam dungeon" but Ganon's Tower was just that.
Now here's the critical detail: you haven't mentioned Forsaken Fortress! That for me is the piece de resistance of WW, and I only wish there was more like this. (and also the aesthetic and theme of all the dungeons is kino)

Forsaken Fortress is an elongated stealth section and the revisit's not terribly memorable either. I don't really have much positive to say about that and barely even recall it as a dungeon.

>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Wind Waker
6/10
>Twilight Princess
8/10
>Skyward Sword
6/10
>Breath of the Wild
7/10

Attached: 1471460697575.jpg (480x360, 21K)

Hey, elongated stealth sections are great in my book. It's always engaging to have abilities taken away from the player once in a while, and present challenges that subtract so the player has to work around a limitation as oppose to add and demand usage. I loved the way that the exterior and interior of the Fortress lined up, and how it was possible to make progress in the inside and outside alternatively. It's also great that the Fortress is an actual plausible Fortress with living facilities and an indoor ship dock and everything. It's a step up from the Gerudo Forts of OoT and MM, which is a step in the right direction in my books.
The revisit could've been better but Phantom Ganon was a good fight, as was Helmaroc King and the chase sequence before it. Shame the dungeon gets destroyed and doesn't have more interesting enemies or a need to reexplore more the second time around. It would've been good to encounter large numbers of moblins, maybe even the odd Darknut and Wizzrobe, in the halls. Defeating the Moblins that had earlier cornered you so easily felt great. Overall, I see Forsaken Fortress as one of the great dungeon accomplishments of the Zelda series.

Only rating the ones I've played

>Ocarina of Time
6.5/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Wind Waker
6/10
>A Link to the Past
9/10
>Minish Cap
6/10
>Twilight Princess
7.75/10
>Phantom Hourglass
4/10
>Spirit Tracks
3/10
>Four Swords
5/10

I'm very glad you didn't list Stallord among the greats. I was never impressed by that boss, it's not bad by any means (one of the best in TP, which isn't saying much) but it's nothing special, it's always been bizarre to see so many kiddies slobber over it.

>Goht
Good taste
>Puppet Ganon
I think each phase is interesting but a little shallow. It's three gimmick phases in quick succession. Good overall but leaves me chomping at the bit (a bit).
>Thunderblight
The only hard Blight, the first one I fought on my first playthrough. Once you figure out how to parry it's not that bad. The architecture of the room makes it more awkward than the other fights. Still as loose an experience as almost all the fights in BotW.

>Hey, elongated stealth sections are great in my book.

That's...very much a minority opinion. I don't mind having my abilities taken away, I'm a pretty big fan of survival horror actually. And I don't mind giving a game that specializes in stealth a go, I've had fun with stuff like Tenchu and Metal Gear Solid in the past. However, it's generally been a thing that no one really likes forced stealth sections in non-stealth games. Even with OoT, making your way through the garden to meet Zelda is one of the most boring parts of the whole thing and I've yet to meet someone who looks back on that 5 minute stretch of game with particular fondness. If anything, I feel it's forgotten because it's so short, unlike the Forsaken Fortress. I do give it points for being something different, though.

Stallord, like every other TP boss, looks cool as hell but when you break him down it's almost impossible to even take damage.

>it's always been bizarre to see so many kiddies slobber over it.
It's fun as fuck spinning around and launching yourself at him and breaking him down piece by piece.

There's an entire genre of stealth games, so I don't think that's a minority at all. I'd call it a thriving major current of interest in games in general actually.
>no one really likes forced stealth sections in non-stealth games
Don't really know if I can agree with this or not, regardless Zelda has never been a non-stealth game. Avoiding enemies has been a thing since hardware was strong enough to implement them without compromising everything else, as with the guards and spies in ALttP. Ocarina had stealth chiefly as a set of twee mazes, which were O Kay but kind of frustrating. Zelda's garden is just a basic waiting game, whereas Wind Waker worked more around this with more complex enemy detection AI and the barrel system. I liked being able to snipe the guards in Gerudo's Fort. The way the stealth was integrated into relatively regular gameplay however is what made it work well for WW. I greatly enjoyed infiltrating the searchlight platforms, improvising a takedown on the Bokoblin operator and watching the main area become more free to operate in.

Pretty true, although after the initial resemblance to the Balrog wore off, Pyrus started to look pretty crappy. Most of the designs are on the edge of tolerable. The minibosses generally look cooler than the bosses in TP: Death Sword is actually one of the legit coolest designs from a Zelda game.

I found it frustrating and predictable. The earlier spinner track sections in the dungeon were more interesting.

>Once you figure out how to parry it's not that bad

Botw in a nutshell. Once you can flurry rush and shield bash, the combat system falls apart.

Seasons, Ages, Awakening:
7/10

OOT, WW, BOTW:
9/10

MM, ALTTP:
8/10

ALBW:
10/10 gotyay

Zelda 1:
5/10

TP is on my backlog and I'll probably never play SS because I'm not buying a wiimote.

>I'd call it a thriving major current of interest in games in general actually.
Yeah, it's got a decent foothold in survival-oriented genres, not to mention some third person shooters like TLoU surely popularizing their implementation currently. I really don't think that applies to Zelda as a whole, though.

>Zelda has never been a non-stealth game
You do cite legitimate instances where Zelda has incorporated stealth but I can't say that makes it a stealth game. I think there's a difference between incorporating stealth and emphasizing it. Tenchu, Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid, these are franchises that emphasize stealth as a primary approach on a deeper level of engagement. Zelda merely adopts elements of stealth on the most basic of levels on occasion, I would sooner call Goldeneye a stealth game than any given Zelda and that too merely incorporated stealth ideas.

Based

I don't like Zelda

I wasn't even referring to that, that's the sad part. Just the basic ability to use the shield so Thunderblight's "I'm fast, fuck you" attack doesn't rayp.
I knew I could learn the flurry rush system et al but couldn't be bothered to master the autism just to make an already shallow game shallower.

>Zelda I
8/10
>Zelda II
8/10
>A Link tot he Past
8/10
>Links Awakening
8/10
>Ocarina of Time
8.5/10
>Majora's Mask
8.5/10
>Wind Waker
6/10
>Twilight Princess
8.5/10
>Skyward Sword
3/10
>Breath of the Wild
8.5/10

Alttp is the best Zelda game.

Zelda II
>7/10 - Fun dungeons, Dark Link. Bad grinding and dialogue.
Link's Awakening DX
>10/10 Great dungeons, secre4ts, optional side quests, finding all the seashells, OST.
OoT
>10/10 - Ruto, Saria, Sheik, Almost buying an ocarina, like-like fetish, carrying Ruto, Adult Ruto, Sheik's Harp songs
Link to the Past (GBA)
>9/10 Never liked the dungeon or boss battle music.
Wind Waker
>4/10 Paying Tingle for 99 triforce pieces ruined the game. I threw it in a graveyard where it belonged.
Twilight Princess
>9/10 - Impna, Zone's Flash, Dashing as a Wolf while Midna is riding, Ashei, based Malo, those Lake brown girls, fun dungeons, Midna's Lament, I want Zelda to look down on me
Skyward Sword
>6/10 Shop Keeper lady was my wife. Top Tier Zelda, Based Groose, Fir was the most obnoxious helper in the series, didn't have to figure much out in dungeons
Seasons/Ages
>10/10 - The island part, the dance mini game, comfy winter, rings were fun to collect, I want to fuck a witch, great music, My kid grew up to be a NEET FUCK
BOTW
>11/10 This game has the most replay value out of all Zeldas. Plenty of likeable women. I want to convert these Iga clan women with my dick, Eyebrows ZELDA, Mipha was too good for this world. TRAP LINK, Gerudo abs, TWO HANDED SWORDS, SPEARS, HORSE BACK FIGHTS

I haven't beaten BotW yet.

Attached: 1498708982203.gif (271x200, 973K)

I'm talking the Thief series, the Batman Arkham games, the better flexible RPGs like Deus Ex where stealth is optional but a viable build-strat. There is an actual genre of games all about stealth that's very prominent. Stealth can be intermixed into general action and adventure gameplay as well as it's own thing. Two of my favourite small stealth games are Tiny Heist and Trilby: Art of Theft.

>You do cite legitimate instances where Zelda has incorporated stealth but I can't say that makes it a stealth game.
Good because Zelda isn't a stealth game: it's a not non-stealth game. Do you see the categorical distinction? A "non-stealth" game would be something like Mad Max or Final Fight, a game all about crunchy action and where stealth would be inappropriate. Most games can host stealth as a side section or element, like the Spy in TF2.

.Zelda merely adopts elements of stealth on the most basic of levels on occasion, I would sooner call Goldeneye a stealth game than any given Zelda and that too merely incorporated stealth ideas.
The average Zelda game and Goldeneye, plus its spiritual successor Timesplitters 2, are about on the same level as each other for stealth as I see it. Consider Timesplitters 2's Neotokyo, a level with a dedicated stealth section at the beginning, followed by the extremely runny and gunny Wild West. Games can vary like that.

That's an entirely legitimate matter of taste and preference. Would you elaborate why?

Attached: 1548970182380.jpg (200x200, 10K)

Based. WW lacks substance and so does BotW, though to a lesser extent. SS has its issues, but it's a top tier Zelda if you can get over them.

>ALttP''s boss music
What's the matter, don't you enjoy NUUH NUUH, NUUH NEHH NUUH, Nuu NUUH NUUH, NUUH NEHH NUUH, Nuu NEHH NEHH, NEHH NIIH NEHH, NUUH NEHH NEHH, NEHH NIIH NEHH, NUUH on repeat for several minutes?

>LoZ
8/10
>Return of Link
7/10
>Link to the Past
5/10
>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
10/10
>Oracle of Ages
10/10
>Oracle of Seasons
8/10
>WindWaker
9/10
>4our Swords
7/10
>Twilight Princess
8/10
>Skyward Sword
6/10

That's all I've played

BotW has volumes of substance, it's just as thinly distributed as the water on a salt flat. It's an extremely huge puddle.

Breath of the Wild

True that games can mix ti up, especially of the action adventure variety where's they're a bit jack of all trades. I do think you know what I'm getting at though, Zelda is a series where you can rip and tear through your opposition 99% of the time, except for the 1% where the game says "hey, hide now" so you tiptoe past a few guards and YAY YOU DID IT, only to never have to do it again until maybe the next game.

It is clear that you have a fondness for stealth games, though. Barring that (mostly) unrelated fondness to Zelda, Forsaken Fortress doesn't necessarily sit so well with some people BECAUSE it's a weird change of pace from what Zelda typically is. Even with something like the Gerudo fort you can (and should) incapacitate the soldiers. Forsaken Fortress is more like a mix of that part's size and length with the lack of retaliatory options of the garden section, you HAVE to hide and you HAVE to do it for quite a while. Most people don't play Zelda for stealth and those who outright hate it probably don't like that fish out of water section too much. But if you do like stealth then great, you'll probably like this by happenstance. I just feel that liking a Zelda dungeon for the stealth is a bit like enjoying Kingdom Hearts for the platforming, it's pretty clearly not the main event but it's still present.

>Ocarina of Time
4/10
>Breath of the Wild
9.5/10

Haven't played the others.

Fucking this.

BotW appeals to people who are curious and like exploring, I guess. It took me over 70 hours to finish it because I constantly got distracted and went exploring. The game is quite good at rewarding that curiosity in my opinion.

But I'll add that I was a bit disappointed at the lack of real temples and "complex" puzzles.

I don't know, I tried lots of Zelda games, they are just not my cup of tea. And I really want to like them since they are considered to be among the best

If you have difficulty enjoying "conventional Zelda" in the vein of Link to the Past/Ocarina of Time then you might like Breath of the Wild or the NES titles.

Yeah this is how I feel. I wanted to like it but everything felt so pointless

>the NES titles
I remember playing the very first Zelda game and not liking it at all. I liked Mario more when I was a kid
>Breath of the Wild
I unironically plan on buying a used WiiU just to play this, looks great. The only Nintendo consoles I've ever owned are NES and GBA

Not even a DS? like any DS? fascinating

>looks great

It's probably gonna be the only Zelda game you like. I'm not a fan personally but people who typically don't like Zelda do seem to like BotW.

Yeah, I kind of liked my GBA so much I didn't care about the DS
I'll certainly give it a try someday

I hope in the next one they just connect the shrines together, so you can have longer shrines that mix combat, puzzles and little story beats. Also more visual variety, was dissapointed the shrines didn't change visually depending on the region it was located in. Also proper swimming.

>Zelda is a series where you can rip and tear through your opposition 99% of the time
Not really? Zelda has always been a mixture of raw action and tactics. You can't rip and tear your way through an Iron Knuckle in Ocarina, it will rayp your fayse in short shift. You have to circle it and make attacks when it extends itself. Stalfos are guarded enemies that also require careful timing. Even Lizalfos, weak as they are, teach the player to wait for openings in order to avoid a nasty backstab.
>the 1% where the game says "hey, hide now"
I'm not sure why any percentage would be any issue. For what it's worth, Ocarina has three stealth segments that I'd say collectively amasses to at least 6% of the game, and Majora is similar with the Pirate Fortress and Deku palace (Stone Mask makes this a lot easier however).
>you tiptoe past a few guards
That's simplifying it a smidge. Ocarina's stealth bit in the courtyard was shallow but at least it was actually about timing, with multiple alternate routes and some rewards for being ballsy. Meanwhile WW improved upon this greatly.
> only to never have to do it again until maybe the next game.
Well precisely, this is a case for more stealth being integrated into Zelda games. I liked the fact that stealth was an option basically everywhere in Breath, and indeed I used it pretty frequently just to conserve weapon durability. Shame it had so little gravity there as with everything else in that game but it wasn't without hope.

>It is clear that you have a fondness for stealth games, though
Not supremely. I haven't actually played Thief, any of the Batman Arkham games or Deus Ex. I just understand and appreciate the examples they present. I thought of Hitman as another core example of a series since that last post, which I also haven't played but which captures it well. I've never been enamoured with stealth enough to buy a game for the sake of it's stealth, but rather have always enjoyed its implementation in more varied

>Legend of Zelda
7/10
>Zelda II
6/10
>Link to the Past
8/10
>Link's Awakening
10/10
>Ocarina of Time
10/10
>Majora's Mask
9/10
>Oracle of Ages
8.5/10
>Oracle of Seasons
8.5/10
>Wind Waker
9/10
>Minish Cap
6/10
>Twilight Princess
7/10
>Phantom Hourglass
5/10
>Spirit Tracks
6/10
>Skyward Sword
7.5/10
>Link Between Worlds
8.5/10
>Breath of the Wild
10/10

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games. Trilby and Tiny Heist I list because they are pure stealth games, but their neat scope as small freeware indie games is a large part of their appeal.
>weird change of pace
It's hard see what's so weird about it. Link got launched into the heart of an enemy stronghold and got seperated from his sword, so he has to improvise and find a way around it with whatever he can get to hand. It's a similar principle to the well-celebrated Zero suit segment in Metroid Zero Mission. Stealth parts have also been present early in Zelda games, Wind Waker pushing the boat out a little by having it be the first dungeon (ALttP still had stealth as a sub element in Hyrule Castle)
>Most people don't play Zelda for stealth
I'm not sure if there's any evidence for or against that, it seems like an unfalsifiable statement. For what it's worth I would not say that people don't not play Zelda for stealth, ie. they do not object to it.
>fish out of water section
I dunno, even in Wind Waker there are ways to sneak up on enemies and get a first strike advantage all over the game, like in the many grottoes or the huge clustermob in Hyrule Castle. It's not a wild outlier.
>iking a Zelda dungeon for the stealth is a bit like enjoying Kingdom Hearts for the platforming, it's pretty clearly not the main event but it's still present.
I haven't played a Kingdom Hearts game, but if there's one dungeon/equivalent that emphasises platforming as a mechanic more than the rest then that's fine. It might execute it better or worse than other games but its very inclusion cannot be an issue.

That's a pure motivation, I can appreciate that. Why not try breaking down what it is you look for in a game; what it is you find appealing in the games you like, what features you find frustrating or troublesome in games you don't like, and what balance of them have presented themselves to you whenever you've tried out a Zelda title.

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>OoT3D over OoT64

Windwaker is a 7/10 and Breath of the Wild is a 5/10. The rest I agree with.

gyroscope aiming alone makes it better, besides the iron boot fix, enhanced graphics etc

easily equipping boots alone makes it better

Guy who wrote that post, the same feeling as you describe that the game keeps you going by having sheer "ooh but what's that over there?" to keep you moving, circling around, diverging off and coming around for a long while. But eventually you iron all that out, which gets faster and faster as you get more stuff and can skip through things quicker, till eventually it's all a doddle for rewards that... fail to reward.

Viewed as a whole, BotW is a game about preparation. There's GANON, he is in the CASTLE being BAD. You are too weak/not an autistic speedrunner enough to defeat him yet. Level up by whatever means you can discover, of which there are many, and then beat him.

That as a scenario is interesting, and the profusion of ways to become stronger is an ultimate good, but in implementing it without any counterbalance becomes a problem. Link is weak initially, and way way way too strong by the end of it. There's only a very brief moment in the middle part where Link is just about strong enough for the game to be enjoyable.

Sometimes this stems from the particulars of levelling mechanics, with the clothing system and inventory being standouts as inherently imbalanced. But in general it's just that the level rate is exponential and has nothing to keep it in check. This is why the sections of the game that force Link to a lower level are the most interesting bits - Eventide Isle, the Master Trials, the bit with the Obliterator, and the Blight refights. Obliterator limits HP, while also removing the annoying damage spongeyness, makes range combat more interest as an alternative to risky melee, and removes weapon breaking as a problem. The others work just by diminishing the borked weapon and item systems. In truth there are many more axis to explore like this, such as limiting stamina or slate rune usage.

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Ah, so it's more like stealth in bursts, like when it's used as a breath of fresh air sort of thing. To that end, Forsaken Fortress very much is that so I suppose that pans out. Still, that does come down to celebrating what is ultimately a very basic stealth section, to which a lot of people would either rather be doing something else or playing an actual stealth game. Parts like Forsaken Fortress can definitely be divisive and I have a hard time holding it up as a definitive crowning achievement in 3D Zelda history. A step away from the status quo, sure, but I dunno about much beyond that.

It's a vast improvement but not enough to recover the terrible aesthetic degrade. OoT3D and MM3D, as well as WWHD to a lesser extent, are encapsulations of the principle that more power does not mean better looking, and also a demonstration that a company or business can forget its own lessons and wisdoms that it used to live by.

>Ocarina of Time
7/10
>Majora's Mask
9/10
>Wind Waker
9/10
>Twilight Princess
5/10
>Skyward Sword
6/10
>Breath of the Wild
9/10

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And I missed this post entirely.

>it's hard to see what's so weird about it.
One issue I do have with Forsaken Fortress is its placement, I think a moment like as the first dungeon is a bit much. Considering the game has thrown exactly one combat scenario at you by this point the player's possibly chomping at the bits to get going and find some enemies to cut down and wait, I just lost my sword? It's different but it's also a bit off. Even OoT had its first proper dungeon out of the way before the garden section.

>It's a similar principle to the well-celebrated Zero suit segment in Metroid Zero Mission
I've seen mixed responses to that section over the years. I don't hate it but I've seen objections to it before.

>For what it's worth I would not say that people don't not play Zelda for stealth, ie. they do not object to it
I suppose that's true, there's been too many repeat instances for it not to be.

>even in Wind Waker there are ways to sneak up on enemies and get a first strike advantage all over the game
Yeah, you have the option to strike. That's not the case in Forsaken Fortress, for better or worse.

>It might execute it better or worse than other games but its very inclusion cannot be an issue
It can be if done poorly. Not that Zelda necessarily does stealth poorly but it's not especially good with it either.

It's a feature is really what stealth is, the same way that using a grappling hook or interesting climbing, swimming, gravity mechanics, portals and so on and so forth are all features in games potentially. Stealth is an info-oriented features, and information has always been a big part of Zelda, what with the learning of dungeon layouts, discovering secrets, and carefully figuring out and solving puzzles.

>hat does come down to celebrating what is ultimately a very basic stealth section
Sometimes that's all one has to celebrate really. It was a step forward and made for an interesting themed dungeon, which is what's critically important in making Zelda's ingame cycle so entrapping. LoZ 1's dungeons may be fine in terms of their challenge, but it's the same challenge and the same tiled square rooms every time. It's good to have variety and change, and I appreciate that from Forsaken Fortress, Wind Waker's first dungeon (if more of a sub-dungeon) and also the game's only multi-visit dungeon. Multi-visit dungeons are understated in the series, outside of mega cases like the DS titles, which carry the concept a tad far.
>Parts like Forsaken Fortress can definitely be divisive
Well yeah, I mean this entire thread is a monument to how there is variety within the broad consensus of Zelda titles. Some people still don't like how Wind Waker looks for instance, and probably never will. There's a large element of subjectivity, within which I see that, for those keeping track, FF was a highlight of WW and among it's most memorable features for its distinctive approach and methodology, even given its documented limits.

>It's a feature is really what stealth is
You know, I suppose that's a way of looking at it. I do think the timing is off with Forsaken Fortress though, it takes away your sword 15 minutes after the game gives it to you. That's kinda lame and puts a damper on the mood going into the dungeon.

>Multi-visit dungeons are understated in the series
TRUTH. FUCKING TRUTH. I actually like what the DS games did with that, though weirdly enough no one liked the Forest Temple revisit in Skyward Sword.

>There's a large element of subjectivity, within which I see that, for those keeping track, FF was a highlight of WW and among it's most memorable features for its distinctive approach and methodology, even given its documented limits.
This could be a "we see what we want to see" sort of thing but it's the opposite for me, I've never seen people praise Forsaken Fortress.

I can concurr that it is an unusual placement, but
>the player's possibly chomping at the bits to get going and find some enemies to cut down
Possibly, yes. I think some players are very into their hack and slash action and some are into more than just that, as we have been establishing in this rather enjoyable dialogue. A good comparison would be between myself and my older brother, who always goes straight for the mashy mashy frontal approach and not for the careful elimination style. Except he got really into the Batman Arkham games, which I'm actually going to criticse here: I felt like it gave the stealth on a platter, but not in a bad way, just that you yourself were not responsible for hiding. You took it for granted as a power of Batman and instead had to toggle between hiding mode and not hiding mode, which my brother enjoyed grately but I didn't care for. That's differences in preference for you.

>I've seen mixed responses to that section over the years. I don't hate it but I've seen objections to it before.
True. My main objection is ZSS's godawful hair, for what it's worth. (I've said FWIW about three times now, heh)

>It can be if done poorly.
Precisely, not just for being a stealth but for being a bad stealth section (hypothetically). If a Zelda game had one feature like stealth or platforming or hack and slash combat largely drown out the other varied staples of the series, I would be confused and perhaps let down a little, but it could still be a good game even given that. The Oracles games demonstrate that you can have more action-oriented and more puzzle-oriented Zelda games as an entire game lean, the same can be true of many features. Imagine "Oracle of Light" and "Oracle of Shadow", which have a contrasting speed and stealth theme between them. Everything in OoL requires fast action and reaction, and in OoS careful timing and concealment. Could be pretty awesome.

>it takes away your sword 15 minutes after the game gives it to you. That's kinda lame and puts a damper on the mood going into the dungeon.
It certainly made me want to get my sword back and punish a few Bokos. I mentioned earlier than a limitation can be a great thing for a game as well as a dungeon. I enjoyed the feeling of getting to improvise.

>I actually like what the DS games did with that
Same, while I can understand some design faults like having to replay the same identical sections over and over in PH and ... what do you know, a stealth segment? Probably my least favourite in the series, but there you go. I still really like the idea of a dungeon that's worth returning to. BotW did their best with Hyrule Castle, it's usually a good idea to plunder and visit it around the midpart of a run at least once before returning to wipe the floor with Ganon, but it drops the ball with the other dungeons.
>no one liked the Forest Temple revisit in Skyward Sword.
Sounds like "it's Skyward Sword" to me.

>This could be a "we see what we want to see" sort of thing
I think that's definitely a factor, I mean we all home in on such and avoid what we don't have an interest in or do not care for anyway by simple nature. It's good to gain a perception of the other side of a given coin as such, this has been a very nice chat about stealth in Zelda and such. Maybe I should frequent Yea Forums in the small hours of the morning more frequently, when I usually turn up at like 9pm it's all aggravated shitposting.

Honestly, I don't really have much to add to any of this besides wanting the everloving hell out of Oracle of Light/Shadow now. At the end of the day it's just different preferences finding value in different things. But yeah, this has been a really nice chat. Happens every once in a while in Zelda threads.

Such is the way of all threads and their itenerary of interesting conversational subthreads. Glad I could provide thee with some good food for thought.

>this has been a really nice chat. Happens every once in a while in Zelda threads.
All the shitposting marketters have drifted away from BotW at last after what seemed like an eternity of basic consolewar baiting. Or maybe it's just the time of day, and your scheduled obviously-fake provocative bait posts with canned responses will resume in 3... 2... 1...

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Why does nobody like ALBW or even mention it? Did nobody play it?

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I actually enjoy the motion controls as a whole, it's not even that bad. Though I wish the storyline was expanded much more, but overall it's rather decent.

It's weird considering it's a really good game but the rental system is something that split opinions on it. Also, Hilda is best princess.