Open World games

CDProjekt is the only company that knows how to do open world correctly.
Skyrim is casual trash with no depth or interesting areas. It’s all grey and white and green hills and forest-mountains full of the same shit different toilet enemies and side quests. What’s garbage game.
Fallout 4 and 76 are both terrible.
It’s sad that Obsidian made the best nu-Fallout.

Witcher 3 is. That's a world that feels alive especially when your choices can impact the world from the little things to the bigger ones. Almost every side quest is great.

How is Witcher 3 a bad game? It is way superior to Skyrim and other Bethesda game in literally all aspects.

no, you're wrong.

Fun parts of Skyrim are modding in weather/hunting/camping/hypothermia etc and making it a hiking sim.
But then you go back to the actual "game" part that the devs intended and magic is gone.

Bethesda open world design
>icons everywhere
>run dungeon, kill baddies, reward chest at the end of it
>repeat dungeons until your inventory is full
>go back to town, hand in some quests, sell your shit
>go do it again in draugr dungeon #1587
>quests ask you to go to dungeons which is what you would be doing anyway except now you need to pick up and deliver an item
>story is always 'environmental' I. E. Letters and journals have been written in the most contrived way to tell the player how sad the hidden story is
>no meaningful character progression because the shit you fight at the start is the shit you fight at the end
>character can be anything at any time so you don't feel unique
And people go out of their way to tell me what a great RPG this shit is

Top kek, you must be joking.

You can Role play in Bethesda games, you can't in the Witcher. It's a garbage RPG.

I never said that Bethesda were good and making the games and implementing the designs.
I just believe that they focus on the parts that a open world should have focus on.

My favorite part of Skyrim was how one of the main quests got stopped dead in its tracks by a bug I couldn't even bypass with console commands. I guess it was my fault not waiting for the unofficial patch.
"94/100, Essential" - metacritic.

Have sex

this

skyrim did it better than anything else Ive seen

having skills to level means youre gonna keep seeking exp until youre maxed out (which takes longer to do than actually finishing all the content)
new alchemical ingredients and unique dungeon loot (though rare) gives you a reason to check out everything on the map, also unique quests in certain areas
it mostly all looks nice (a few of the biomes were meh)
it had the best level scaling to date, but it still needs work

maybe the most important thing skyrim did was having each dungeon be noticeably unique (and mostly pretty cool looking)

>choices impact the world
>just walk into houses and steal things with no repercussions

it's a storyfag game, so all choices story choices.

>Is Bethesda the only developer that understands the strengths of open world game, and how you should design it?

They're the only developer whose smart enough to at least partially listen to their game base and include actual character customization.

Imagine how much better The Witcher 3 would be if you didn't have to play as an old ass white man trying too hard to look cool.

Or if you didn't have to play as that ugly, inbred looking troll that is Henry in KC:D

Or if you didn't have to play as one of those shitty, forgettable protagonists in the latest Assassin's Creed games.

Creating your own character makes exploring an open world profoundly more fulfilling because you can uniquely immerse yourself as an individual with it. This is *your* character, personalized to your liking, exploring this vast environment with a fuckton of shit to do.

This is why Bethesda sets the standards of what a good open world RPG is. Every time.

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dungeon crawling was literally what rpgs were in the 80s and 90s and what the elder scrolls was based on.

brynholf
tulius
ulfric stormcloak
sigdi
ralof
mjoll the lioness
wulfgar
lydia
faendal
legate rikki

>it had the best level scaling to date
Find dawnbreaker too early, dawnbreaker quickly becomes weaker than basic bitch swords you craft yourself.
Spend levels training speech and alchemy, draugr get stronger.
Level up enough, bandits start winning against dragons.
Level up even more, BEARS start 1v1ing dragons.

fuck skyrim

we are getting dragon's dogma 2 maybe bros

Unironically yes. They are the only developer to actually implement what people think of when they hear the words open world. It means a world where every npc is an actual person living in the world with schedules. It means every house is enterable and every item can be interacted with.
Regardless of their implementation they are the only ones designed open worlds as they actually should be.

>:D
Kill yourself

what the fuck

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>Find dawnbreaker too early, dawnbreaker quickly becomes weaker than basic bitch swords you craft yourself.
a mod fixes the two weapons that scale with the player
>Spend levels training speech and alchemy, draugr get stronger.
you can only train 5 skill increases per level
>Level up enough, bandits start winning against dragons.
>Level up even more, BEARS start 1v1ing dragons.
bandits and bears max out in the mid 20s. dragons continue all the way to 75

>Is Bethesda the only developer that understands the strengths of open world game, and how you should design it?
Play RDR2. Say what you want about its scripted missions, but when it comes to side content, the game is spectacular.

>DUDE CHARACTER CREATION
lets forget about everything else that makes for a good rps and focus on this small thing to prove how great skyrim really is.

All Elder Scrolls characters look absolutely dreadful. It's no coincidence that that's the first thing people mod in their games.
If KC:D looks like an inbred troll, you probably don't even constitute as human.

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Did you seriously just quote Skyrim as some kind of authority on quests?

Not all of us need to use escapism to enjoy a video game. What sad lives you anons must live to actually shill for Bugthesda and their mile wide, inch deep games that lose more and more actual RPG elements with each subsequent release.

I dont use the artifacts myself except for volendrung on one character, but I got it at a decent level and was restricting myself to orc gear anyway

but yeah, the game takes some self moderation
>ignore artifacts
>dont rush crafting
>maybe dont use the best materials alltogether
>play on master

in all my hundreds of not thousands of hours, ive never seen bandits or bears kill dragons
as for the draugr, as long as youre not leveling like a total idiot, and youre not wasting your best consumables on trash mobs, you shouldnt have much trouble

I actually agree with your analysis 100%. I think in Morrowind the focus on exploration and world building was very well executed and they should just go ahead and remake the game with better combat gameplay, graphics and balance. the game is so badly broken. you can buy cheap ingredients and some potions that make you better at making potions and easily make valuable potions to buy more ingredients and so on... there are other problems like this with spell creation too. something I really don't like about skyrim is how you can seemingly do everything anywhere at any level. the world should evolve more and there should be more opportunities for your character as you progress. I hope they fix this in Redfall

>something I really don't like about skyrim is how you can seemingly do everything anywhere at any level.
some dungeons or areas should be X level no matter what, IMO

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>lets forget about everything else that makes for a good rps
Such as?

Geralt already has a personality, a backstory, goals and motivations. You don't need to create the character for it to not have all those things already determined and for the game to allow you to shape the character.

What roles am I playing in W3? Adventure games have dialogue options, this does not make W3 an RPG. If just playing the role of the character counts, then fucking anything is an RPG. The combat is laughable and the skill trees make Skyrim's look robust. There's next to no character-building. So I ask again, what roles am I playing in W3?

Waifu hunter.

The side content follows the same basic formulas and everything is basically figured out for you by virtue of map/quest markers and nothing being complex to the point where it actually requires critical thinking.

Bethesda has been actively moving backwards on open world and RPG design. All downhill since Morrowind, even if they have done away with a lot of clunk. Skyrim is prettymuch an example of how not to do open world.

Case in point:
In Skyrim, if a vendor sells something, it almost never exists in the game world anywhere, not even in a chest. Available purchases are random and level based.

Morrowind, most vendor stock is on display and you can steal it. Vendor's have unique stock.

Skyrim, bandits wear daedric armor, you can craft it.

Morrowind, daedric armor is scattered across the map, there's like 2 complete sets to be found, and one of those sets is on a mainquest NPC, but you can actually kill those in Morrowind.

Skyrim travel: fast travel almost anywhere, follow the arrow, use the carts once to add cities to your map.

Morrowind, follow sign posts, use silt-striders,boats,mage guild teleport, 2 temple teleport spells, mark and recall teleport.

The list goes on and on.

Essentially Skyrim is largely forgettable, the world has no weight. Morrowind is had crafted and memorable. Nobody gets the sword of white woe from under a guard's bed and forgets it.

And people STILL got stumped at the claw puzzle. Back in 2011 I thought they were pulling my leg, but apparently it's a thing that happened.

Was talking about RDR2

I unironically got stuck on the claw simply because I was unaware you were able to move objects in your inventory around to look at them in the menu

I don't understand the fast travel criticism. They're just abstracting travel (that can be tedious) to something more enjoyable for particular players (or particular situations). It's not a requirement and you can freely not use it (and you're often rewarded for not, by stumbling into random locations).

>bandits wear daedric armor
bandit leaders will start rarely having a single daedric piece at like player level 50 or something
by then youve already crafted a set if you were going to

That's the thing, even if you didn't rotate the claw it was a puzzle with 27 possible combinations. That's 5 minutes of bruteforcing at best.

They claim it hurts exploration somehow.
I explored the same way in Skyrim that I did in Morrowind.
Pick a direction and go.
Maybe some anons need to be told "It is time to explore".

That's what I wound up doing, yeah.

Felt like a moron later when I found out you could just rotate the damn thing, nothing else in the game has you do that before that IIRC, felt poorly explained.

What you described as positives arguments is actually pretty fucking boring to whoever is not an dweller autistic and just wants to play and have fun, i played morrowind and both dlcs in 2007~ and found all this sht pretty frustrating
>Morrowind..."as well as selling over four million sales worldwide by 2005"
>Skyrim..."In November 2016, Howard confirmed that Skyrim had sold 30 million copies since its release in 2011"

>citing sales numbers as an objective measure of quality
Please tell me you seriously don’t do this.

Why explore when you can warp there in seconds, you dont need to walk anywhere and if you do its only because its in between two fast travel locations.

Morrowinds travel system was trash. Had to jump through hoops to get slightly closer to where you want to go.
Should have had the silt striders act like stagecoaches in RDR and drop you off at anypoint along the road.

Sometimes I feel like exploring sometimes I am more interested in getting something done.

exploring in Bethesda games is rewarding and fun. if you don't agree, then warp, it's fine.

No, i didnt measure quality witth it, i didnt say it.
I just wanted to show how good all this frustrating autistic content being cut from the upcoming games helped the franchise, even fallout

I'd be fine with some of them just being extremely difficult and NPCs not giving the player a quest to go to a dungeon above their level.

Why not?
If you are trying to gauge success in reaching your audience do you know of a better metric?

If I'm just trying to get something done I'll warp, but most of the time I'll walk just because there will be stuff on the way to do.

You don't need the game to tell you to explore on your own.

yes! based redpilled user! bethesda makes the best games PERIOD!

idk what you're on about not wanting to suck Todd howard's cock, i'd be all around that piece of meat, if you know what i'm saying ;)

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once you've already explored an area and saw everything, it's faster and less tedious to warp. I bet you'd find most players love exploring at first, but once they've done than and are on a mission they want to get it over quickly, so warping is better. it's really handy. If they removed it, players would just add it as a mod, because it's a quality of life change to make the game more fun overall.

>CDP
Uninterrupted stroll from military camp way south to temple district in Novigrad while going through a cave and several peasant huts along the way

>Beth
Load to enter city, load to enter store, load to enter quest giver's house, load to enter cave.

Skyrim's open world feels outright primitive after TW3.

Bethesda makes open worlds that are the width of an ocean and the depth of a puddle. They pepper their games with repetitive fetch/kill quests to make it appear as if there is a lot of content.
Also this.

It's easier to load an empty world.
Never underestimate the effect the clutter has on the feel of an ES game.

If you hate wide as an ocean deep as a puddle you must hate Witcher 3s cities.

Random peasant's hut in TW3 you never have to enter has more clutter in it than key loacations in Skyrim. And no loading.

unironically this

That is correct.

>r*ddit spacing
>:D
Please inform your nurse to euthanize you

>roleplaying in a bethesda game
>every quest is npcs sucking your dick saying how amazing you are
Bethesda games are wish fulfillment for neckbeard nerds.

Can you pick things up or is it window dressing?

Do you even know what RPG video game is, you stupid moron? Kill yourself.

That's actually false. Completely false. In Skyrim your character is the most generic, self insert faggot ever with the only dialogue choices being [CONTINUE EXPOSITION] or [WAIT, I'LL COME BACK SO YOU CAN CONTINUE YOUR EXPOSITION LATER]

and Fallout 4, well your character in Fallout 4, while having a bit more depth than Dragonborn (which isn't saying a lot) was as set in stone as Geralt is.

You can pick up food, cloth, cutlery and things like that scattered around. Admittedly you can't pick up a bucket and put it over the merchant's head.

Moot point.

Your definition and mine may vary wildly.
Since there is no industry standard arguing about how RPG a game is is an exercise in mental mastuerbation.

force push knocks shit over

Maybe wait until your balls are lower than your taint before having opinions

I won't contest that Skyrim is the more player friendly of the two. The thing is, Vvardenfall isn't your friend, it's a harsh wasteland ridden with ashstorms and blight. Skyrym is Elder Scrolls themed Norway with dragons.
Skyrim feels like a game, Morrowind feels like an adventure.

Morrowind is a very old, flawed, and clunky game, but the world was made with something resembling artistry and care, which I would hesitate to say about Oblivion or Skyrim

Point being, it doesn't mean anything in relation to the world, it's not really rare or special, it's just a shiny stat upgrade. You might really like it even, but it has no context.
Are you going to remember where you crafted it, why were you there in the first place?

It's mindless and not memorable, makes the whole carry weight system mostly pointless because you can just quickly go anywhere to sell loot or get stuff and come back. You can still do this in Morrowind with the mark, recall and intervention spells. But now it's a gameplay element with trade-offs, you need to be able to cast those spells or have scrolls for them. Also, do you want to change your mark location to get loot?

Didn't know that Witcher 3 had physic for clutter.
I thought it was part of the scenery.
The no loading screens is impressive with items that are their own entity in the game world.

Cicero

>dialogue choices
what you do is more important.

The only downside to Witcher 3s RPGness was that you couldn’t create your own character and have your own backstory

Morrowind lost all sense of danger after level 20.
It was more hiking sim than adventure at that point.
Morrowind was the least challenging TES game once you got past the horrid start.

>run dungeon, kill baddies, reward chest at the end of it
>repeat dungeons until your inventory is full
>go back to town, hand in some quests, sell your shit

to be fair the same could be said for 99% of the games. it's not inherently bad

Colossus is cool and all, but the world is just a big empty place for the sake of being a big empty place. It's an aesthetic decision, not a gameplay one.

To me, it feels kinda unfinished.

No, not really. Both the actions, and what you say are important in an RPG. You can't roleplay by only doing shit, you're gonna have conversations every now and again, and if the game cuts off any interesting dialogue on your part it's severly limiting your roleplaying.

Not every game turns dungeons into a theme park-ish haunted house. Vast majority of Skyrim dungeons consist of a single linear path leading to a chest and a shortcut to the beginning. They did try to hide the painful linearity by not making the paths a straight line, so at the very least it did more than FFXIII.

why are you repeating lies?
skyrim fixed the issue of bandits wearing ebony or deadric armor like in oblivion.
even at high levels most bandits will still have fur or iron armor with bandit chiefs maybe having an orcish or dwarven shield or piece of armor.

most of skyrims vendors stock is literally on display in the store and it is never unique stuff. i don't know what you are talking about

complaining about fast travel is the dumbest thing. don't fucking use it. and before you start complaining about normie zoomers only following the arrow and not exploring the world, i have literally only heard that complaint from morrowfags like yourself. all of my normie friends constantly talked about the cool hidden places they found while exploring the map.

it literally doesn't happen except for in the deranged mind of a morrowfag.

because you have to find the locations first. you can't just warp around the map at the start. and the way skyrim's map is laid out even a nearby location might be on the other side of an impassable mountain forcing you to explore and find a way around.

This. It feels forced that the world is completely centered around you.

You’ve literally never played Skyrim.

as someone who tied the "no fast travel" thing, it's very tedious once you've already explored the areas. 10 minutes of spamming sprinting just to go talk to a guy and 10 minutes back across the map just to report what he said is a huge waste of time. surely your time is worth more than that.

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I mean there's not really much to do, aside from hunting lizards and fruits to extends stats, but then there's just the views to find and climbing on top of the shrine you start out off.

In a way, it's not superior to Skyrim cause Skyrim has more stuff to do, but it's more aesthetically pleasing to wander around at, doesn't contain as much copypasted scenery and also comes up with dreadfulness of the empty world, which is hard to come up with other openworld games where there's stuff to do.

Arguably, better openworld games compared to Skyrim are Piranha Bytes games, Dragon's Dogma, Final Fantasy XII and STALKER.

Rockstar is undoubtedly the best

If they ever do a fantasy game we're in for a treat. A lot of references to the Knights of the Roundtable in Red Dead Redemption 2

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This.
"No fast travel" is fun till the main quest makes you climb that boring ass mountain to talk to the Thu'um hermits for like the 10th time.

Okay, maybe not bandits, I tend to conflate Oblivion and Skyrim
But it's still only available from generated content. You can't find a single piece just sitting in the world.

The game is built around fast travel. The world is large because they expect you to use it.

There are no fortify acrobatics spells that were my goto in Morrowind. There is no mark and recall, no mage's guild teleport, no propylon indexes, there are only carts and boats. if you want to do anything other than walk.

Skyrim vendor items for sale exist in a imaginary box that doesn't exist in the game world, you can't even steal them.

Don't forget there's a horse. With the same running speed as your dragonborn on foot.

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>empty world
>lifeless npc
>boring, cut-scene filled sidequests
>exploration is blocked by the main quest

>undoubtedly the best

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Horses have feet.

the horse walks and runs faster than the player, and there is no encumberance limit
with a mod, you can dump inventory on your horse and call it to you when you want

that is how they always did it and it does exist in the game world. skyrim literally has items displayed for sale

>merchants will also sell some items sitting out in the store and unequipped items in their personal inventory

Honestly, Skyrim isn't a bad game... with 150+ mods.

People still mod Bethesda games?

Well, if I'm gonna play a Bethesda game (slim chances to begin with) it's gonna be a modded Bethesda game.

you can't roleplay in Bethesda RPGs tho
sure, you can pretend, but the game will never acknowledge it, nothing you do matters in the game

When the alternative is playing vanilla Bethesda games, certainly.

> If I am going to play a game I don't like I am going to change it into something I do like.
Makes sense but why don't you just play games you like?

>Is Bethesda the only developer that understands the strengths of open world game, and how you should design it?
No, they don't know shit about open world design, the people who wanted to make a good open world game left, and those who stayed wanted an EPIC and cinematic experience for the open world games, just look at Todds notes for Skyrim.

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How to fix Skyrim exploration:
>No icons. Instead there is a map and the player places icons with their own description.
>No text flashing where you are. The player has to figure that out and label accordingly.
>Fast travel is only available via horse carriages
>Mounts are now faster to compensate
>More war and turmoil going on out in the world so traveling to areas you've been is different

Combat and the leveling curve need fixed too but that's a huge other thing.

What is your problem with the pic?
Narrative should always support gameplay not the other way around.

Well, you can't rely on the devs to make the perfect game for you, that fits your own subjective tastes. Mods can be a very handy enhancement. And I do like Skyrim's base, as shallow as it is, because its formula allowed for a lot of great mods to be made. In a sense, it was like an empty pool but with mods it can be a filled pool. So, while I dislike vanilla Skyrim, my own modded Skyrim is actually one of my favorite games. And I do play a lot of games that I like in their vanilla form, but while I dislike vanilla Skyrim I see nothing wrong with putting in the work to make it a game I enjoy.

Okay but the majority of their stuff, including any daedric or gold they might ever have exists in a chest that requires exploiting or console to get access to.

Like, sure, you can steal that iconic helmet from the box art that is never worth wearing. You can't pull a heist and get that enchanted ebony longsword you want.

You've never played witcher 3.

I agree with all of this. It's a shame Bethesda are designing for brainlets these days.

To continue this post, I watched a video of some dude playing morrowind, he said the worst part of the game was the fact main quests and side quests interconnected with each other, removing your ability to explore everything with a single character.

Of course the narrative should support the gameplay, yet, Skyrim and FO4 lacks that, there is no reason to make settlements, won't effect the world, won't affect the main quest or any sidequest, your character lives in a magical bubble who actions have no consequences.

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With a few mods and your own roleplay you can actually play like this.

I modded Skyrim for a bit then they started disliking each other and refused to play nice.
Ended up deleting them all.
More of a PitA than anything.

The only reason I prefer skyrim to other RPGs/open world games is they let me create a character. Call it a shallow reason if you want but letting me indulge my autistic need to roleplay means I'll keep coming back to that game.

One of the only things I see Bethesda doing better than most open world games is that their are a lot of interiors instead of buildings and their interiors being painted on.

Jarl Siddgeir
Jarl Ulfric
General Tullius
Brynjolf
Haddvar
Ralof
Nazeem
Jarl Balgruuf
Aela the Huntress
Belethor

I know how you feel, one time I deleted Skyrim because the mod list was eating up too much space for my (at the time) drive. Took me months to get motivated and mod it again. If I for some reason lose my Skyrim install again, I am never touching it again. Modding it is an absolute pain.

The only hard lockout in Morrowind was which house you chose.
Like every other TES game you could be the head of every guild in Morrowind so I am not sure what the person you referenced is talking about.
Hell the Arch Mage of the Mages guild would give you a quest to kill the telvanni leaders even if you were one of the telvanni leaders.

>most moddable games in the industry
>people still mod these games?
People still mod Daggerfall and Morrowind

Anyone who dislikes Morrowind's travel system is indisputable trash and a faggot. Kill yourself.

>hey faggot, you just broke out of emperial death camp? whatever nerd, hey wanna go kill like ten bandits for me?
>>slaughter ten guys in cold blood
>alright, you are clearly a person destined to rule this country. here's 10 gold and a shitty sword also ur now the leader of some shitty faction with 6 people in it

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People want to play open world rpg games, but they don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions, they don't want characters gone because you decided to side with a faction mid game, they don't want to lose "content" because they prefer blue rather than red, in Skyrim, they don't want all the imperial characters gone if you sided with stormcloacks, Bethesda would also have to change the thalmor if the player sided with stormcloacks.
Most people want a theme park open world game, go X do Y get Z, they don't want a complex open world where actions have consequences, they don't want to lose their precious time playing the same game more than one time, just look at some old NV reviews, criticizing the factions that locked content, a good open world game is by default a niche game.

I believe is related to some diseases you have to cure during a side quest, and the location is part of the main quest, the dialogue changes during the mq if the sq was already completed,

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based, dunmer chicks are the best

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> People still mod Daggerfall and Morrowind
That makes sense.

No

I wouldn't use "NPC's have daily routines" as a strength because there's dozens of fucking games older than Skyrim which do the same thing.

If you want a good open world game it can't be empty and lifeless, that's why Witcher 3 was received so well.

They have the right idea, but it's all just too streamlined.
For example I don't mind fast travel, but it shouldn't be available for every single landmark you come across, especially those you probably won't be visiting again. Different transportation methods add a lot to the world if they're integrated nicely into the story and have hugely rewarding benefits if unlocked. Think OSRS or something like that.
But this is just a minor gripe compared to how they did away with the most important elements of character progression in Skyrim. You have only three primary attributes, and any character can level up any skill at the same rate, it's so fucking dumb. There's really no point in ever making a second character because of this.

this, nobody did it better

Witcher 3 was received well because of pretty cutscenes and waifus.

>Ash fever
>You will never find a cute dunmer during your travels and settle down with her

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The main quests in skyrim felt worse than the side quests in recent "ubishit" games.

Why shouldn't simulating walking to a location be a thing?
If you don't like it don't do it.
If you don't like that other people do it mind your own damn business and worry about you.
How I play my game has zero effect on how you play yours.

Yea I remember all the exploration, looting, interesting characters, quests with different outcomes that impacted the game, boss battles, and Gwent but to each his own. It was one of the few triple a RPG releases recently that had content for you popping up just about everywhere

You are delusional if you think any open world developer except CDPR puts the focus on the story. It's all about following a familiar, risk free structure

Reminder that dunmer females are absurdly slutty at a young age and any qt dark elf you find will have already ridden 9000 nordic cocks.

>Roleplay
>Elder Scrolls
Pick 1 and only 1. The only roleplay you do is at the character creation screen. After that, you basically run around and do every single quest with no variation or completely ignore the quests. There's almost no quest where you can actually roleplay.

"Hey go kill x guy", your choice boils down to "kill x guy with sword, magic or archery". That's fucking it.

>there are rudimentary reactions to your choice of race and skills
>but none actually meaningful ones that would change a quest or reward

And yet none of the things you mentioned are still talked about anymore but the things I mentioned are.
Don't believe me start a Witcher 3 gameplay thread and a Witcher 3 waifu thread and see which one lasts.

Good bait.

They are also necrophiliacs and probably incestuous, but healing magic exist, and memory manipulation.

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I'm okay with all four of those things so long as I get to live on Nirn

The quests need to undergo drastic change from the old, beaten down formulas. Nobody wants to go out and fetch 10 of X or kill 10 of Y, or loot 10 of Z. The majority of quests don't require thought or consideration and just rely on your strength.

I doubt most people on Yea Forums have even played TW3 in depth. I Fucking hate this place.

It's still fucking retarded because they never show you that you can rotate items. I'm convinced most people that "figured out" the puzzle just saw it in the demo (as I did).

No. Bethesda is shit. Fallout 76 made me realize it. 76 stripped away everything that distracted you from how atrocious the core gameplay loop of Bethesda games are. So much so I went back and replayed 3, NV, & 4 and ignored everything but the core gameplay loop. Without the bells and whistles to distract you, you see them for what they are. This extends to the ES games too.

The only hood Bethesda games are from Arkane and iD.

In fact the only good open world games are RDR & RDR2. Both of which would've been better without the open world. Well, Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition are good too. But not because of the open world.

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Your point is retarded since it was easily modded to have cities and houses be part of the world with no loading screen. Stop defending incompetence.

How is self insert and pretend not role playing aspects? They're the most basic aspects of it. The game is shallow and shit sure, but at least you aren't locked into a role with character like Witcher. Bethesda games move away from RPG mechanics with each release though, they're basically just adventure games at this point.

The most obvious reason is that it helps cover up the fact that the world design is so inspid that walking from point A to point B feels 100% like padded content.
So it's not a case of "I don't like it, so I won't do it"; it's more like "some people might not like it, but EVERYONE's gonna do it, otherwise they're going to die of boredom". In Skyrim, I have no reason not to skip travel to that dungeon I once visited that would help me reach the next city that much faster, since walking is just shit.
That's why I talked about making the world feel more interesting by introducing progressively more useful travel methods instead of a singular fast travel. But it could only work if the world was filled with interesting quests and stuff in the first place.

Bethesda games are so garbage it astounds me that anyone could bear to play them for longer than 10 minutes let alone love them as much as they do. Why does an open world matter when it's such a fucking horrendous, bug-filled mess?

>bandits
While you're right that they don't wear daedric anymore, they still scale to the point where they might as well. And yes they can fuck dragons up at high level.
>vendors
Objectively false. Their stock is stored in a chest under the ground. Use console commands to clip through if you don't believe me.
>Fast travel
The problem is that even if you don't use it, it makes them be lazy with world design since they know most routes won't be used.

when I said self insert, I basically meant that the character cannot have any, well, character expressed. He's just a blank thing people throw exposition at. Essentially a vessel for the player, and that's all the Dragonborn can ever be expressed as. Sure, you can have a personality in your head, but your character can only say generic lines that progress the quest. Pardon if my phrasing confused you, I didn't put it the best way possible.

I don't have more female dunmer pictures.

Same with every hyped release.
People play for a bit an forget all about it when the next latest and greatest hits.

In default UI the space with item's 3D model takes like 2/3rd of the screen. It's not weird to expect people would click there at some point.

fully agree
choices dont matter you cannot escape the narrative.

We had very different experiences with Skyrim.
The most enjoyable times were when I ignored everything and just picked a direction and went.

cant say I disagree with any of that

Skyrim sucked in many ways but I do have to give them credit for one thing. In Morrowind I always wanted to go deeper in the Dwemer ruins, like going down in the puzzle box dungeon was comfy as fuck and ended too abruptly.
Basically Blackreach was everything I had hoped for back then and young me would have overjoyed desu. It was still cool even though most of Skyrim's world was pretty bad.

It's no more an RPG than witcher since your only roleplaying choices come down to pointless cosmetics or which quest you will or won't do. You can self-insert more as Geralt than you ever could the Dragonborn because with Geralt you can do/not do the quests but you also have options in how to handle the outcome of most quests. Meanwhile the Dragonborn just does what he's asked.

Take for example the Dark Brotherhood questline. When you are told you're going to kill the Emperor, you can't actually go "fuck this, this is getting out of hand I'm going to warn the emperor and betray them". The only thing you can do is literally let the quest sit there in your log and never touch it.

BOTW did it better than any Bethesda game.

One thing that gives me hope is they implemented FT from interior cells in 76.
This will give them more freedom in dungeon design. No more loop back/linear dungeons to avoid the tedious trek back.

>that moment when you shout at the big glowing orb and it actually does something

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You haven't played Skyrim have you?
The daedric quests usually involve the chance to betray the quest giver.
There are 3 or 4 faction lockouts depending on your decisions.
The negotiation at the Greybeards has implications in game.

While it isn't chock full of choice and consequence it has far more than any of the big three TES games.

Skip character creation every time or just use the default appearances. Imagine caring or valuing what your character looks like. Maybe if you put that much effort into your own appearance you wouldn't be a neet sexless wizard

Their games differ from stuff like Witcher 3 etc etc etc. People will tell you about your shit opinion and so on but there's only 1 fact none of the games offer the type of freedom Bethesda titles do and the amount of things you can do in them especially with mods.

No other company has challenged them in their own game hence the popularity of their titles.

I'm not saying I didn't find that stuff enjoyable to a certain degree either. I enjoyed it despite its shallowness. But roaming a world littered with icons to just ceases to be fun and becomes exhausting at some point, and no amount of fast travel points will make up for that.
Why not have fewer overall areas in the game, but focus on making them more interconnected and expanding on them throughout the story so that players have a reason to return?

I know about those, they are the exception not the rule. There's give or take a total of 10-15 choices(some which don't even matter ala Rolaf vs Ivar) in the whole game. In games like Witcher almost every quest has meaningful choices. Not only that but they affect the world around you and future quests as opposed the vacuum where ES "choices" exist.

:D

I have always found exploration its own reward since Morrowind.
Once you realize not everything has a marker and actually exploring you will find something interesting the more you want to explore.

For me anyways.

>some shitty faction with 6 people in it
lame criticism. we accept that the land is abstracted and is much smaller than it would be, but suddenly we don't accept it when there's less people. I'd personally prefer less people if they're at least someone useful gameplaywise, instead of just window dressing that's only graphical and not gameplay related.

You are missing a few I think.
Did you count if you convince the farmers to have the guard runoff Cicero the next time you come back to the farm they will be dead?
It isn't as light on C&C as most seem to believe.

>draugr tomb N°1854 and levelled loot

I didn't count them myself because I would surely miss a bunch, it's been years since I played. But a search shows that this is about the amount there are. Feel free to prove me wrong and pump out a list of choices, but you'll have a hard time without resorting to meaningless shit like Rolaf vs Ivar.

>Caves are the only things worth exploring.
Found the brainlet.

shut up, retard

>those other shitty locations are totally worth exploring for their great aesthetic and deep lore
Based retard

>Bandit fort N°1854 and levelled loot
>Orcish fort N°1854 and levelled loot
>Draugr Tomb N°1854 and levelled loot
>Dwemer ruin N°1854 and levelled loot

I think I got them all, did I miss one? I'm not even the same dude but what's the point of having so many locations if they all boil down to 1 of 4 settings that might as well be proceduraly generated.

>people actually struggled with the first skyrim puzzle

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Having so many quests tied to dungeons means it's inefficient to explore a cave or fort or whatever because you will encounter a quest that leads you there again. I wish I didn't have that feeling when I play it. But the game reinforces that notion early on.

So I roam from landmark to landmark to highlight it and not actually do anything there.

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Ive been through every location in the base game, I think

caves are the best
dwemer dungeons are next
then falmer places
then draugr places (some are cool, most arent)
forts are the worst BY FAR

There's always things to do and new shit popping up, you must be talking about red dead online

>thief guild quest
>hey buddy how would you like to go in an old ruin to fight draugr?

Most of the lists of choices I have seen only involve the daedric quests and faction choices and don't include things like the Cicero deal.
I believe I have made my point that there is far more C&C in Skyrim than it is given credit for.

I believe most anons just parrot established talking points without realizing they are wrong.

What a great bait, OP. Imagine thinking Bethesda are competent.

Can't wait for rape inspired female knights that drag the quality of every scene they're in down. Or one dimensional "characters" who are more "le evil" personality traits than actual characters. Yeah. Sadie and Micah. Fuck both of them. And no. Not Micah because he's a scummy person. But because he's a lazily written one key bad guy.

CREAM OF THE CROP

>thief guild quest
>dragonborn, it is important you be stealthy in this mission-
>or... yeah okay slaughter the fuck out of everyone and steal the shit... whatever dude

>thief guild quest
>dragonborn, it is important for us be stealthy in this mission-
>trigger every trap and charge any enemy they see
God dammit, I do the thief guild to avoid the shitty dungeon dwelling

>not being spoiled by the e3 preview

>I'm not going to back my claim that there are a lot of choices but I believe I made my point
Sure thing bud

Modders make better open worlds than Bethesda.

They are stuck with a shit framework, they fix bad designs.

Morrowind's travel system was great once you took 10 seconds to think about it. You have boats, stilt striders, magic guild porters, mark / recall, almsivi intervention, divine intervention and with the propylon index dlc the connection between the dunmer forts. There is no reason for Morrowind to have fast travel because you have so many other options. In Oblivion and Skyrim you have pretty much nothing besides horsecarts and horses which are only slightly faster than running

youtube.com/watch?v=mvZsbpUJhZ8&ab_channel=ESO-Fallout&ElderScrollsGuides

look how fucking good this looks

That's a shit comparison. New vs Old open world game.... ofc old game is gonna be shit.

>Dat old lady story
No matter how much Todd fucks me over he always wins be back. I still don't believe that what they're showing is going to look like the final product but it was still cool.

Did you find the Talos shrine with the dead Talos worshippers and the the dead Justiciar?
Did you find the mammoth the dwemer were hunting at the moment they disappeared?

Yep just caves and dwemer ruins I guess.
No wonder you brainlets need to be told when to explore.

Skyrim is more fun

>get amazed by meaningless garbage
>think you're a scholar

If you were the user from earlier you had already made my point for me.
So thanks I guess.

Why has no other dev just ripped off BGS games yet? Is it because bethesda already has their systems in place so it's cheap to keep going?

I don't even know what you are arguing at this point.
I am not entirely sure you do either.

Ok brainlet

Other devs don't have an engine that can handle it.

dude the eyebrows in >:D are sooooo funny

I'm not saying Skyrim is a good game, but come on. Witcher 3 open world is completely dead and it hinders storytelling. They took popular thing and stuck it in their game completely missing the point of open worlds in the process. Hubs would work so much better.

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eh, I dont give a shit about that
but holy fuck that forested area is tits
they say in the video that the game itself probably wont look that good, but god damn

the giant dead mudcrab
the notched pickaxe
the faerie circle of mushrooms with a glass arrow in the center

Baalgruuf, Elisif, Hadvar, Hjalmar, Astrid, Farkas, Ancano, Mercer Frey, Serana, Miraak

And I purposefully picked one character each from different factions or locations I could probably name more than half the companions and I havent played it for like 5 years