ITT: sequels that turned trash into something great

Too many missions or parts of missions involving being in one spot or protecting things, meaning less options for the player to move around the level and climb/hang off of things, and not inviting the player to move more in general with the placement of grabable ledges/wires.

This vid also brings up more on the subject :
youtube.com/watch?v=hq7Juyq4qUo

Do you want to back up your side of the argument?

>AC1 broken
>when 2 removed the requirement to time counters

If I remember correctly, 2 was more buggy as well.

I guess I just like 1 because it’s the only game in the series that actually committed to the “assassin” concept.

Funny, in the first game they give you a literal shield that blocks absolutely every projectile, in the sequel you only get the shield if you choose the good karma powers.

I don't think I ever used the shield in either to be honest, defeats the point of a run and gun, and I just plain forget it was there.

Half as long...

that was literally the video that made me get infamous 1 to begin with after i installed CFW on my ps3 a few weeks ago. he (you?) was completely wrong about everything in regards to the first 2 games, and i suspect he was simply playing the game wrong. he thinks it's good design to be funneled into a linear path with some cover (walls to hang off of, or low walls to crouch behind) to take part in a shooting gallery. he was absolutely unwilling to accept the fact that infamous 2 isnt fucking gears of war but an agility minded game. i played both on hard btw.

infamous 1 was only fun on the first island, when you could wrestle with the janky parkour at your own slow pace, and could get the drop on 1 or 2 enemies that were aggro on you. after that, it's a non-stop barrage of dozens of enemies, and all you absolutely CANNOT use the parkour to your advantage because they spawn 360º around you, AND on rooftops, and will absolutely snipe your ass.

infamous 2 gives you all the mechanics it has, and all of them are viable. enemies don't instantly see you from 200 feet away, and not only that, guess what, you can USE THE PARKOUR to maneuver around them (lose them, flank them, get the high ground). again, cole isnt a tank, but he IS like a fast twitch athlete- his maneuverability is better than ever and he can deal massive damage but at the cost of massive electricity drain, and often has to retreat to regain energy/health, and the game gives you power variations to account for slight variations in your environment.

the open world was miles better, it wasnt some disjointed weird shit, but a cohesive map that had all these points of interest that let you traverse it more efficiently- exactly like sly. i was about ready to kill myself any single time i had to hunt for a collectible, do a side mission, or even a main mission in the first game. in the second, the hours just flew by as i gleefully traversed the map, with things to do at every turn.

I haven't played the game in like 6 years, so I'm willing to believe you if you are show me a video of someone playing to prove me wrong, something to the equivalent of 'style video' you see for other games. But what I remember, there was too much melee focus/stay in one area and not enough options or at the very least incentive to platform unlike the first game where I was doing it just because I could even if I didn't need to. Because a lot of what you said doesn't mean much without video proof, same goes for me.

Release on PS4 when?

I platinumed them both, they are pretty average. Generally the gameplay is fun, but also downright crap at times. Lots of tedious, annoying shit you have to go through. Didn't care for the story or characters. Seemed like it was written by a 10 year old. Neither is significantly better than the other.

>there was too much melee focus/stay in one area and not enough options or at the very least incentive to platform unlike the first game
i literally never use melee or the cover system in 2, i just sprint around everywhere and use the setpieces (energy sources, boost pipes and wire induction) along with parkour to move around

i dont have a "style" video and idk wtf that means but the second son E3 gameplay reveal was really what cemented my philosophy on how infamous is to be played, and every element from that game was first implemented in 2, except for the smoke dash. i actually played second son twice, and guess what, my good karma playthrough with power variation was awfully dull. but my smoke-only evil run was an absolute blast, because it totally supported what i like doing. i dont wanna snipe zap people in the legs with some pink beam, i wanna run fucking CIRCLES around the enemy, going through vents and chain link fences and blast them the fuck away with the mega satisfying regular shots, charge shots and heavy shots.

again, i must reiterate, none of the things implemented in the first game were actually in accordance to the way the game was designed. they kinda threw ideas together but couldn't make it all fit. infamous 2 made everything fit. that's exactly why they did things like implement energy drain from normal R1 shots, which wasn't in the first game. this was intentional, this was because they realized a lot of the other powers were badly implemented so people just defaulted to R1. that's why they made cole faster. everything loops around and there's dozens of improvements like that that they made AFTER they saw how infamous 1 was being played.

about the only flaw i could find was- if you centered the camera to the right, you'd use your right hand to shoot, and if to the left, your left hand, which was useful tactically. in the second, they switched the model around to show more of his body during aim mode, and that was confusing.

Infamous one was good, just very Tech Demo-y since they literally used the Sly 2/3 Engine for it. Infamous 2 was indeed greater but having it be the conclusion to Coles story was weak considering everyone seems to favor the Evil Ending more And personally I feel it had more potential for a Sequel since it gives the Idea that Conduits overtake Humanity as the dominant species which means the next game would have been a Superpowered Metropolis and could have dealt with an Overlord Cole while you played as an inexperienced Conduit dealing with the new world balance.

Twice as dumb...

If you say that platforming works more in tandem with the shooting in the infamous 2, then I have to ask; Why do you think many people like the guy in the vid I posted and myself never felt the incentive to platform in the sequel, despite having tonnes of fun with it in the original. It's always a bad argument I see a lot of people on this board to just say "Get gid", blaming the player instead of the designer, but I really do think the game never gave me a good enough reason to platform while shooting, the fact we are even talking about it tells me that something changed between the two games about how they ask the player the way they want to play. Why do you think this is and what changed exactly?

>lets make a game where you run around in a city and you have superpowers! see, you, the player, are the cool guy, i mean, damn, who doesnt want superpowers? and you get to balance that out with moralistic choices of how you want to regard others, normal people, who are now beneath you

>yes, but for the sequel lets make a game where you're a jackoff like everybody else

user, i...

what the fuck were you thinking? listen, im not of the opinion that every game has to revolve around the player, you can definitely have a good RPG where the player's actions are but a blip on the radar in comparison to what's going on in the rest of the lore, but clearly the main fantasy and design philosophy of the game, the entire premise behind its creation, was having the fucking superpowers which made you special.

>the first is complete fucking garbage
Nice opinion.

You know it's true.

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Like I mentioned, I also had fun climbing around in the first game, ON THE FIRST ISLAND. The game was nudging you to stroll around this noir city, slowly climbing skyscrapers to find shards. It was a very good mood and I enjoyed that a lot. After that, you go to an island where all the buildings are short, it's daytime and enemies spawn in much greater numbers all around you, and the game is forever ruined. You're better off only using the induction traveling and even then the static thrusters aren't worth a damn.

>It's always a bad argument I see a lot of people on this board to just say "Get gid", blaming the player instead of the designer
I often see this argument but I disagree completely. Sucker Punch had a proven track record of being talented, they had a small focused team, and this was the sequel where they could take immense amounts of feedback and use it to tweak the game. Who do you think is more likely to be wrong? Them, or some jackoff player that is too stupid to play the game in accordance to the tools he is given and through what works, and within margin, his own taste? I think there are ways to play a game wrong, where you don't take the game's philosophy into account.

>the game never gave me a good enough reason to platform while shooting
being one-shotted with RPGs from full health was plenty incentive for me. again, i play on hard, and if i stood around within view of a few enemies for a few seconds, I was fucking dead. this kept me on the move- every single thing i did was with the thought "how can i gain the upper hand?". shockwave blast someone that gets too close, sweep them off their feet or off a roof, or into water. close groups of enemies or a tough one? grenade them. goes without saying that aiming for the head is rewarded with the skull bolt. need to evade? jump off the roof and grab onto the side, then keep circling around. find an energy source. plenty of smoke-dash esque moves too, like pipe induction, car jumps, etc

Second island wasn't all that bad, but the third was certainly a pain until you unlocked the final power and could just shit lightning all over the invisible cunts who liked to run up and shotgun you in the ass.

Nope. The 2nd one botched the combat and added way too many gimmicky, useless powers. The map also sucked compared to the first and the writing was fanfic tier.

The first one has some janky physics, but otherwise it's a classic.

I think the first one has a better overall story, but automata's gameplay is light years ahead also,
Kaine's balls > 2B's ass

at least the third island had fucking tall buildings again. shame about the mines, drones and turrets and fucking entire battalions of soldiers on every corner.

But Infamous AND Infamous 2 were great. .

There were tall buildings in the second, just mostly in the center while the outlaying ones were shorter, but even then you had loads of wires to travel on and had the hover hands powered up enough by then to get around it with little problem.

I saw 'Kaine' and thought Scarlet Spider. But yeah, Kaine's balljob > 2B's 900lbs. assjob.

>Who do you think is more likely to be wrong? Them, or some jackoff player that is too stupid to play the game in accordance to the tools he is given and through what works, and within margin, his own taste? I think there are ways to play a game wrong, where you don't take the game's philosophy into account.

How is that any different than "git gud" ?

>need to evade? jump off the roof and grab onto the side, then keep circling around. find an energy source.

You can do this in both games, yet one feels more focused in one than the other. You didn't address the issue, and saying "some jackoff player that is too stupid to play the game in accordance to the tools he is given and through what works, and within margin, his own taste? I think there are ways to play a game wrong, where you don't take the game's philosophy into account." No one in the thread learned anything other than 'you're playing it wrong'.

Second Son wasn't too bad either, story could have been much better, but it was still pretty fun for a few playthroughs. First Light was certainly a marked improvement over it.

Second Son was... fine. It just seemed to lack so much end game content compared to the first two games. It feels so empty for some reason. I'd like it if I could switch from it to First Light without quitting one to start the other, too. Also
>They didn't add the paper power
Fucking shit SP.

>balljob
Hey, you're a cool guy never let anyone tell you different, ok?

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Honestly the only concession I will ever give to infamous 1(besides the karma choices which I remember to be somewhat better besides shit like “which poster do I want?”) is how awesome, powerful shit wasn’t locked behind limited ammo things. Dropping a massive thunderbolt and it lasting as long as your lightning did was fucking amazing and it saddens me they replaced that with what essentially amounts to a screen wipe you can use three times unless a corpse drops an energy core.

>The 2nd one botched the combat
No, it fixed it.
>added way too many gimmicky, useless powers
This was intentional. They add different flavors of weapons and want you to pick whichever one is dominant for your tastes, and occasionally switch to something that's better for a specific situation
>The map also sucked compared to the first
This couldn't be more wrong. It's not even funny how disgusting your taste is. Yeah, I love 3 fucking disjointed islands that just force you to run around. Wanna get somewhere faster? Oh, use these pre-determined wires and fucking rail system that just goes in a circle around the island. The second game has a beautiful map full of flavor and color and it truly integrates the traversal- the rails and wires are better, and it introduces electric pipes, and most important- the static thrusters aren't complete fucking shit.
>the writing was fanfic tier
Dude, who fucking cares? I agree that the cutscenes and story in the 2nd game are like some fucking USA Network movie, but hey, it's supposed to be campy. How much of an annoying absolute fucking cunt Trish was in the first game, that was meant to be taken seriously.

Second son’s problem was Reggie was literally the only likable character and the game constantly shit on him for no reason. The powers are fun but what the fuck even is “video” and why is dust so immobile compared to the other two powers? Makes you not even want to use it since it makes traversing the generally boring map tedious.

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Skyrim
>inb4 “NEW GAME BAD OLD GAME GOOD”
Take it up with it’s critical acclaim, nigger

Yea, that was definitely kind of lame. If anything, they could have at least allowed for a cheat to unlock once you beat the game to get unlimited uses. I get that they wanted somewhat more strategic uses of the most powerful moves so you weren't just taking heaving shits all over the enemies left and right early on, but could have probably found a better balance.

Second son was the biggest dissapointment
>characters are bland and act nonsensically
>moral options are reduced to doing the right thing or going out of your way to be a selfish asshole
>no enemy variety at all, killing the same concrete mooks all game
>Seattle is fucking tiny
>powers are just different flavors of the same thing

InFamous 2 improved on every single aspect of the first game except the story.

It was also a shame that they seemed to want to have Delsin turn evil, but it seems like they wanted him to still do the right thing since Reggie's death always has him proud of Delsin even on the villainous path.

Some parts of the story were pretty great. Cole and Zeke's friendship was fucking fantastic, they felt like two distanced friends mending bridges and becoming pals again. And the ending message for the heroic ending was pretty great. Still sucks that SP didn't at least make a short "What if?" game based on the evil ending. Granted, it would have been tough given that Cole was literally a god in that path.

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I mean they could just do a first light scenario and have you play as different people.

I still love how delson goes full screeching autist and nukes the tribe in the evil path. They really wrote him as a character meant to be good while cole could reasonably be evil or good.

>apparently 'git gud' isn't a valid response now

>yet one feels more focused in one than the other
It doesn't. Throughout my posts I have enumerated all the elements that make the 2nd game stand out and play better, yet you ignore all the discussion about actual design elements, like AI, power balancing that fundamentally changes the main gameplay loops and moment-to-moment beats, and just tell me "oh, well, I didn't feel like doing parkour in the second game!". Well, I fucking did, so what now?

All I can do is recount my experience, playing both games on Hard. What worked for me in the first game wasn't any of the additional powers (because they were unwieldly, slow, useless), wasn't the cover system (why would I take cover behind something when I'm always surrounded by enemies in a circle), or the climbing (parkour makes you a sitting duck). What worked was just using R1 and aiming for the head, HOPING I get an RNG critical hit, always backing up and trying my hardest to put all the droves of spawning enemies from every direction, at least in some vague direction "ahead of me". I'd put some objects between me and the enemy (without using the godawful cover system that also makes you a sitting duck with a slow show that totally exposes you), and just constantly tap R3 and move side to side to kill enemies before they killed me, and let me tell you, their aim is fucking exceptional, even from very far away.

The second game lets me do what I want to do because it doesn't sick enemies on me like crazy. They operate based on distance and line of sight, meaning it is entirely possible to simply go past them completely unnoticed, or, fuck, even shoot them and still not be noticed after. This is the main difference that changes everything and gives me agency to choose my tools of approach to any given encounter, that make parkour infinitely more viable in the second game than the first.

I'd argue character moments are different from the story. But you're right. I was able to connect a lot more with the cast in InFamous 2, though I actually preferred Cole's old VA. That being said, as far as narrative goes, Kessler is a hard act to follow.

I lost my shit when the twist happened. The game seemed really short too, which is a shame. I'm gonna have to replay it tonight.

>I don't call you brother because I like the way it sounds.

>Kessler is a hard act to follow
I would have liked it if Kessler and his actions, who he was, etc., would have haunted Cole more in the second game - especially if he was leaning more toward evil. Like, "with everything you've done, you still weren't good enough (literally). And now you're still on the same path."

I know Kessler's thing was Evil Cole = Good, Good Cole = Bad, but his methodology was completely shit and I'd think he'd realize that.

That's the only thing I could ever think of, or have it take place years and years later with Cole no longer being the only powerhouse but having to assert his dominance (or forge peace) amongst the conduits.
There were still some pretty good parts of the story, but it was certainly an odd tone shift after the original where Cole was basically neutral all throughout compared to the first where he was obviously acting on his current karma path.

Half as long

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I don't wanna start a moralfag discussion but jesus christ, what are you guys fags? evil is way cooler.

like yeah, i could pick the choice to reveal my powers in front of augustine to spare betty and be a fucking comic book hero, or i could do what i'd do in real life which is keep my fucking yap shut and not reveal my hand, especially if im roleplaying as a trickster delinquent. im glad that reggie says "im proud of you" either way, it shows that they had a real brotherly bond and understanding, even when they'd riff each other and disagree about their lifestyles- it shows delsin is still a human with emotions and cared about his brother and the tribe, which is the main character motivation anyway. i like how evil delsin fucks the crazy neon junkie whore, cuz hey why not. i also like how he completely spergs out at the end. like motherfucker, im not a peach but the whole augustine feud was to fucking save the tribe, we AKOMISH nigga. wait, what's that? im being shunned now? i did ALL OF THIS, just for YOU, and lost big bro, and youre telling me im not welcome now? welllllllllllllllllllllllll, FUCK YOU TOO. plus that part at the end where he says he's gonna shake every conduit's hand, fucking tremendous. god bless delsin, he's unironically cooler than cole

Twice as bright.

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Eh, no.

>playing as the good guy
truly humorless and without appreciation for deeper characterization

Yea, no.

are u ok user?

I'm actually a bit disappointed that Reggie doesn't reflect Delsin's karmic path. I would have really liked it if, during Reggie's "sacrifice", he gave Delsin shit for making horrible choices.

>tfw playing the first game and finding out that if you walk in a puddle that people are in they die
>doing every time you see a puddle
Why cant games just be cool again?

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infamous 2 has the ice jump so i dont give a shit what you say

Honestly, Infamous had the same problem compounded by the fact that it was so bleak that I almost couldn't give a damn what happened to anyone in the game, especially with Cole being henpecked by his bitch of a girlfriend.

I was so fucking hyped to hear Reggie shittalk Delsin while he was about to die on my second playthrough and I was so disappointed when he just said the same speech.

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guy kinda reminds me of thegamingbrit

It really is weird. They at least had Delsin act differently depending on the karma, it's almost like they forgot or the game glitched and didn't play the right speech. Didn't even need to be that different, just "Mom and Dad would be ashamed" or something to drive home the level of disappoint Reggie was feeling.

>FINALLY get the concrete power
>lol game's over, go home!
What the fuck Sucker Punch?

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I wouldn't call infamous I trash, but yes Infamous 2 is like 6 times better than it and is the series fully realized.

Seriously. Could have at least given it a super move as well like either just filling the screen with a pretty looking duststorm, or maybe spikes erupting all over and killing the enemies.

I never even gave the second one a shot because it fucked up the character design, voice, story, presentation. I did like the first game alright though.

At least the design they went with wasn't as bad as the reveal one, which was pretty much just a discount Nathan Drake.

Whoops, meant for

Pikmin 1 had piss poor AI.
Pikmin 2 had the caves.
Pikmin 3 perfected it.

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Yeah, I remember that. But you can't just change who the guy is so much. It's weird.

It made some sense in the story, since it's roughly two months after the original game. Sure, they still changed his overall face, but they at least tried to make the transition somewhat natural compared to what we initially saw. Even then, Cole's face in the original was always kind of weird, didn't help that the animations for him and most other characters felt like they reused the Sly Cooper animations and just used human-shaped characters.

All Nintendo games are garbage. No exception, nigger.

^(You)