No more frostbolt + fireball at same time

So we're playing horde in classic right?

wotlk trees were honestly terrible

Of course, it's the only logical choice for straight heterosexual males.

no I wont play the no shoe NIGGER faction. light give me strenght I will heal the warrior from my bubble as he murders every last horde on the 2 continents.

YAASSSS

FOR DA HORDEE!

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Your funeral, alliance fuccboi.

>vanilla wow
>mage rotation is literally only fireball
>what did they do to retail?

The absolute state of vanillafags

Deadmines is trash.
Gnomeregan is trash.
God, fuck the alliance. Even their dungeons are fucking SHIT.

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>raiding is all about minigaming buttons in the right order
the state of retail. group effort of farming mats/reputation and getting 40 retards in same instance at a specific time > everyone doing their rotation while not standing in fire

Can you guess which one is retail and which is pserver?

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Yes, Hogger is a Stockades boss and his Elwynn quest now ends like that.

...with a nearby level 90 elite NPC not killing him, but sending you instead.

Wands being a main weapon makes perfect sense. I think this is the case of a broken clock being right twice a day.

>he thinks spamming rank 1 frostbolt and spamming consumables is fun
enjoy your e-celeb controlled shit servers fgt

You can literally spam one ability in retail and deal top damage in RBGs.

>Mfw I'm going to be making, at bare minimum, 5 different characters
>Mfw I'm going to start off with a Troll Shadow Priest / Troll Elemental Shaman
>Mfw I'm going to make a Troll Fury Warrior / Hunter after that
>Mfw I'm going to make a Troll Mage as my fifth character
>Mfw I'm then going to dedicate my time to twinking out various Troll classes in the 19, 29, 39 and 49 range
>Mfw there are people around me that are going to make Races that aren't Trolls
>Mfw these people actually exist
Fuck out of my face.
Hakkar will live again.

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>no more frostbolt + fireball at same time
Well yes, you're either a frost or a fire mage, that's logic?
>no more talent trees or points to spend
Because less points mean meaningful choices instead of the same build everyone copied?
>wands are considered a main weapon
I don't see a problem here?
>mana never drops no matter how many spells you cast
Mana is boring anyways, who cares
>questlines completely fucked over
??? There are more complete questlines than ever
>markers everywhere streamline questing to hell and back
Implying reading text and running around for hours like a retard makes the game any better.

Just get over the nostalgia.

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>classicfags looking at retailfags as casuals
>used to be EQfags looking at classicfags as casuals
times have changed, fellow oldfags

>offhand on action bar
>auto-attack or wand-attack on action bar
>arcane-missles on action bar
the only thing that is legit is the frostbolt since you can use it to slow down foes

they're both retarded. all the good mages had rank 1 fireball (to DoT stealthfags) and rank 1 frostbolt (faster cast time just for the slow) on their bars alongside the final ranks.

Maybe you are, but I'm not joining that filthy faction ever again.

pretty sure you cant click attack with ranged on vanilla unless you whip up some crazy macro

In case you guys don't get why this quest was funny: It used to be a funny thing to get a bunch of level 1 characters together and form a raid and pretend that Hogger was a raid boss.

>used to be UOfags looking at EQfags as casuals
>used to be MUDfags looking at UOfags as casuals

Classic servers be boring as fuck, mark my word. Average player now is on par with Drakedog and Vurtne.
I can't imagine vanilla without those backpedalling noobs that i two shot with my undead rogue.

How does that relate to the quest?

lol tryhard mage, like you don't gank levelers in greens from 42 yards away all day

Because that gnoll is Hogger and he is treated like a horrible criminal because he is a funny meme guy.

>average player can now challenge me, so it's gonna be boring
Wew

>Average player now is on par with Drakedog and Vurtne.
>he hasn't played private servers
average people are still fucking awful.

but above all
Harry potter is FUCKING dog shit

If i want challenge i play arena, sorry. Classic world pvp was for shanking noobs.

The state of blizzfags

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The fuck are you talking about? How was he treated not like a "horrible criminal" when there was an elite wanted quest to kill him in vanilla

speaking from my experience on nost, it was still backpedaling shitters everywhere while on retail pretty much everyone is clearly using keybinds
even in pvpve areas like timeless isle during MoP the pveshitters were miles ahead of the people i saw on nost (but also carried by gear that was 50ilvl higher than pvp gear)

classic is gonna be interesting, its a wildcard in terms of how good/bad the average player will be

Sounds to me like someone's just afraid of being exposed as a low skill player

Doubt you'll even get 5 characters to 19 desu.

Early raiding is going to be boring as shit if people are event slightly less braindead than they where in vanilla.

>exposed
he literally just said what he wanted.

>he

Actually makes me mad how they thought limiting abilities to a spec was a good idea. Specced full fire? Rank 1 frostbolt to slow and arcane missles to catch people about to LoS you. Specced full frost? Rank 1 fireball great for keeping a dot on rogues.

Whenever I see people bring up mana that tells me they never actually played during vanilla or TBC.
I'm sure they will change their tune really quick whenever the TBC servers roll around and mana drain teams dominate the ladder.

>Well yes, you're either a frost or a fire mage, that's logic?
Well you are now. You objectively have less choice, you're pigeonholed into a more cookiecutter playstyle.
>Because less points mean meaningful choices instead of the same build everyone copied?
That's what they had in mind, not what it ended up being. People still copy the same build, only difference is that you don't have more than one now. A lot of the new talents are still useless, even though there are so few talents.
>wands considered main weapon, I don't see a problem here?
Well there is one. Wands used to see a lot of use. Some classes spend most of their leveling wanding.
>Mana is boring anyways, who cares
It wasn't, and a lot of people care. making mana pointless homogenizes classes and also made a lot of spells pointless.
>??? There are more complete questlines than ever
At the cost of literally all the old ones. New questlines are very handholdy.
>Implying reading text and running around for hours like a retard makes the game any better.
Playing the game and taking in the world and exploring was far more interesting than just doing the menial task of walking from questmarker A to questmarker B and just following a set path through a zone like it's fucking on rails.

Fuck naw, horde doesn't have my gnomies

>rank 1 fireball (to DoT stealthfags)
But the fireball dot is only 4 seconds long. cast time is 1.5. you wouldn't be able to cast a frost bolt and then reapply the dot before it runs out.

He was just an animal that needed taking care of.

>If i want challenge i play arena
Well I'm sure you would be a challenger.

>Some classes spend most of their leveling wanding.
Sounds like so much fun. Who wants to use their abilities anyway. I bet vanilla paladin was your favorite class to level.

who cares about minigames, arena was a fucking mistake

challenger nowadays gets you the 2k elite armor sets
I get it you were a edgy boy back in the day thinking you were cool on your Rdruid, mace stun warrior, priest or god tier ninja reflex rogue

It was different. You had something to fall back on in case you went oom. I would rather have classes that ranged from fun to boring than have all classes play the same way and all be boring.

How many dps classes on retails rotation is about doing lesser damage abilities to build up a strong burst and then repeat? That is homogenization for you.

Same experience with my lifelong bro when we came back to WoW, except instead of queueing with other fags we traveled around the world and 2-manned a bunch of dungeons at least 5 levels above our range, just to test the limits of our overpoweredness with heirlooms.
Wasn't even slightly challenging until mid-40s dungeons. Only got to level 60 before we got bored. I think my favorite we ran was either Dire Maul or BRD. I'm not sure it's still possible to do since they "fixed" leveling, but I haven't tried.

>You had something to fall back on in case you went oom
nigga no one liked to fucking wand shit down it was weak and retarded fuck out of here with that dumb ass shit

>challenger nowadays gets you the 2k elite armor sets
well that's because they reduced it from 2k to 1800 for BFA. Even the weapon enchant is lower. Not that it matters, BFA arena is absolute dogshit.

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Are you memeing?

>what is scorch
>what is fire blast
>what is coc
>what is group pvp

Preventing vanish is a big deal, especially if the rogue is not very good / does not expect it

It was a niche spec for Priests that was arguably faster for 1-40 if you could consistently get your hands on good wands for your level. Beyond that Shadowform made Shadow far and away the best for leveling if you weren't just healing through dungeons all day.

It was a more dynamic system. Do not ignore half of my post.

Meanwhile on vanilla you pressed 1 button till you hit threatcap or ran oom. then afked while wanding for 2 mins.

what about them? I don't see how it relates to casting rank 1 fireball hoping a rogue will vanish into your 4 second dot. I hope you don't do it often, imagine casting half of your spells to keep up a 4 second dot instead of just killing them casting another spell that actually does damage during that time.

Obsessed.

That's not true. Not a lot of classes have a 1 button rotation. Only mages and warlocks. Having the ability to go OOM creates an actual reason to strategize around the resource. Classes had different ways of dealing with this.

Retail WoW is the result of 15 years of collective whining about one class not being able to do something another class can do. Everything has been obsessively dumbed down and homogenised to the point of insanity.

It's a good insight into the dystopian future created by listening to a vocal minority.

not really niche, it's objectively better because shadow has nothing good from level 15 to 39

it's a mistake doomed to be repeated over and over

user, mages had other means of dealing damage in vanilla besides "sitting in one spot and casting frostbolt".

Sounds like great class design right there.

why did they remove pic related in cata

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specs having imbalance in effort:output ratio is great design. if you balance specs everything turns into just different flavor of same damage value. like how retail is.

Based Moe removed him

Wanted to erase proof of memes being artificially created and forced

Dungeons are more relevant than they've ever been on retail though. You do them all the way through the expac, even if you've got gear from the last tier of the expansion.

If your class is designed to not work for the first 40 levels. It is terrible fucking class design.

Did you accidentally reply to the wrong chain of posts or something? I was responding to a dude saying he was using rank 1 fireball for the 4 second dot as a frostmage.

Luckily there is no such class in vanilla.

>horde with no belf fairies skipping around
almost makes me want to play classic

Hogger was some furry girl after all.

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>shadow has nothing good from level 15 to 39
You just mentioned one.

You were arguing that 4 seconds of fireball dot is not enough to cast frostbolt + rank 1 fireball. I pointed out that you have other tools besides frostbolt that can deal damage while the dot is active.

10% Spell Hit and Shadow Weaving made it okay, Mind Flay mostly sucked though because it was buggy as hell until fucking 3.1

shadow isn't a class

>Talent trees
You can argue that you miss talent trees, but don't pretend that the idea of being level 120 with extremely bloated trees is a good idea.

It works better than Warrior solo at those levels unless you have someone to get you your Whirlwind Axe early
And Shadow becomes god tier if you play witha Warlock, almost like the game was made with multiplayer in mind.

I guess you could do 50% of a single mobs hp with smite, before running oom as holy instead.

Shadow is a spec, not a class.

The endgame for retail wow pvp is just not being able to kill anyone, so nobody bothers. We're almost there now.

warrior solo isnt that bad if you beg for food from mages and level first aid.

you can easily because smite and holy fire aren't bad, but it's more like smite smite swp wand

>this spec doesn't have anything good in this specific level range
>therefore the entire priest class is broken

rip lore or whatever abomination left of it

>It's only broken some of the time
>it gets good after 20 hours
It's shit. Get over it.

Bumping the level cap was a mistake to begin with

Why would you ever cast fireball if you're an ice mage and vice versa or magic missle if not arcane? Makes no sense.

It's just that specific tree that doesn't have anything good for those specific levels.

Priests have a wand spec, you get improved wand damage.

>this class can't do everything on their own in a multiplayer game, therefore it's broken
If you don't wanna play a healer, don't play a healer dipshit

because just because you're specialized in a certain element you shouldn't be barred from using basic mage spells of other schools.

Frost Bolt is always useful for the slow/kiting
Fireball has a short DoT that can prevent stealth but isn't as universally useful as Frostbolt, although it'll still do a little bit more damage than Frostbolt in most cases

And for leveling, neither does holy or disc. So you are stuck auto attacking everything to death. Hence, combat is fucking shit.

How thrilling. I wonder why every game doesnt have exiting combat like this.

How so?

Sure but that is a silly argument, are you really going to use scorch instead of frostbolt as a frostmage just so you can keep casting a very inefficient rank 1 spell for a 4 second dot just in case the rogue might use vanish? It's ridiculously inefficient and not what mages usually do. Just use arcane explotion a few times if he vanishes close and you'll get him out, or just cast blizzard where he was when he vanished and get him out instantly that way. Far more efficient than spending 1.5 out of every 4 seconds casting rank 1 fireball.

>Holy or Disc
>Leveling solo
It's called getting a group you fucking moron

The actual good mages popped a rank 1 blizzard down where they predicted rogues to be.

In retail pretty much all classes are "broken" until you get into the 100s. And even then, some specs were broken even at 120, looking at shadow priests and shamans mainly.

>wtf why can't I play a ddr minigame while im leveling
what will you do when classic kills retail

this
>find a warrior in the same zone around same level range
>ask what quests hes on
>go quest together and be his killing spree enabler
>find more dudes and do the elite quests as well

Which is why so many people are complaining about it and want Blizz to change it. Rather than defending terrible decisions as being perfect in every way.

priest is an above average leveler, idk why the autism is being directed at it when it's an all around great class, talk about druids or something

>How thrilling. I wonder why every game doesnt have exiting combat like this.
Whats the difference between using dots and wanding and casting frostbolt to build up icicles?

druids are a top 3 leveler though.

People have complained about it for an expansion and a half, it's not happening dude.

Blizzard is unreliable because you have to react very fast and guess the general movement direction. A good rogue would easily get you between AE casts, or simply run away and re-engage when you get tired of casting it.

This is not to mention that you are suggesting two rank 1 spells instead of one rank 1 spell, and neither of those do any damage either.

Feral Druids are better than Warriors for most of leveling though, and only somewhat worse than solo Rogues

Sooo as a chad, which faction should i choose?

So realistically how can you even 1v1 a rogue that has preparation? He can vanish, sprint and blind you twice in a given fight. At worst he'll just escape.

>A good rogue would easily get you between AE casts
A good rogue would not vanish into a 4 second dot that takes you 1.5 seconds to apply.

Be a PVP geared Warrior or Shadow Priest, or a Human
Although if the Rogue gets the jump on you it's gonna be dicey no matter what.

You get a lucky WF crit or reckbomb. Other than that, not going to happen when he has cds.

>This is not to mention that you are suggesting two rank 1 spells instead of one rank 1 spell, and neither of those do any damage either.
The difference is that you're using these when you cannot be using other spells on the rogue, as opposed to spending a majority of your time not using your big damage spells just in an attempt to keep them from using vanish. You are playing scared in a match up where you have the advantage.

Druids are on par with hunters in leveling

Nah a rogue seeing you spam rank1 fbs is just going to run up and destroy you, without bothering about stuff like vanish.

>Hogger was some furry girl after all.

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feral druid is the second fastest leveler behind hunter and in a close tie with warlock. you can get increased movement speed outside in cat form as early as level 22 and travel form at 30. theres a shit load of traveling so you save multiple hours by this alone during 30-40 levels. also feral druid has very minimal downtime considering mana regens while in animal forms.

Dots, engi net, grenades, stoneform to remove blind.

I think Dorf Priest would be the best counter to a Rogue.

>hunter keeps serpent sting on at all times and slows the sprint, if rogue ever catches up you scatter trap, if he tries to run you still have a long dot on him

I would imagine a bad one would do that too.

>PVP geared Warrior
this I can see, they do huge damage
>Shadow Priest
???
they seem easy for a rogue to kill

*stuns you from 100-0 because your flimsy cloth armour does nothing and you can't heal while CC'd*

nothen personnel, kid

Gl getting through Shadow Form and Inner Fire.

desu I would imagine both the rogue and the priest would die in a 1v1. Same if a rogue manages to kill a warlock.

Oh noes, you now have as much armor as a hunter. Whatever shall i do.

Just 2 shot him lmao

They're good cause they have little to no downtime but I dunno if they're as good as Hunters
Overall, without considering groups, ease of leveling is something roughly like this:
>Mage, Hunter, Warlock
>Rogue, Druid, Paladin (with Reckoning)
>Shaman, Priest (with Shadowform)
>Warrior, low level Paladin, low level Priest

Mage is the fastest leveler

The point is not him vanishing into a dot, the point is preventing vanish altogether.

It's not like a rogue would just sit there while you are casting your "big damage spells". Having a dot at the very least guarantees you one frostbolt hit. No one really said that it has to be up all the time.

You're retarded if you think a SF priest has the same mitigation as a Hunter. Frankly, I should've known you were a retard when you said Rogue would 100-0 in the stun so gg, I got played.

Shadowform reduces all physical damage taken by 40% after armor
Ironically you're tankier than a Warrior until Inner Fire wears out, and you can mash Psychic Scream if their stunlock drops at any point.

>It's not like a rogue would just sit there while you are casting your "big damage spells".
As opposed to spending 60% of the same time casting spells that do no damage?

rogues pvp trinket breaks fear so that's useless

>Shadowform reduces all physical damage taken by 40% after armor
What in the actual fuck. What sort of shadowform are you using.

Are you trolling at this point?
>rank 1 fireball -> frostbolt -> scorch / fireblast
vs
>frostbo... oh wait, the rogue vanished

don't expect a guy who thinks shadowform is viable to have any clue what he's talking about. if you're shadowform priest you will have 0 epics unless you do premades 8 hours a day for 6 weeks

Gives you enough time to throw a DoT on them so not entirely
Especially if you're playing Undead and have Devouring Plague, assuming you have all your CDs available anyways if we're assuming the Rogue does too.
It's very possible for a Priest to squeak out ahead or at least kill the Rogue with DoTs after going down, speaking from experience here on both sides of that matchup

provided he plays on pve server. you have to be pretty lucky or good at the game to be able to aoe grind with frost on a pvp server.

I was under the impression we were talking full PVP gear on both sides here.

Did I get the numbers wrong? It's been a while. Definitely reduced damage taken by a significant amount.

Will I have ANY chance of getting into a raid as a hunter? I read not many of them are required and I'm afraid because of the amount of minmaxing faggotry that goes on these days.

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If there's a blue skinned elf in a game, that's what I'll play. So Nelf. Rogue Nelf.

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>what is armor and inner fire

The threat of being ganked is the same for everybody.

Who is trolling here? He could just as well vanish the fireball as the frostbolt if hes vanishing the first spell. It's literally the same situation, he might even have more reason to vanish the fireball than the frostbolt if he actually is that scared of the dot.

>everyone complains that everyone will minmax
do you guys not see the contradiction here?

If you have that wolf from UBRS that buffs the group you'll probably be fine
Hunters get to be decent DPS if you get those crafted gloves from AQ that restore mana on regular attacks

I thought rogue trinket breaks stun/roots

druid has stealth

Except he has half the time to react.

Neither is retail

15% So in the end you are sitting at maybe 40ish percent reduction. So mail armor.

I think Rogue vs Priest or Warlock is more likely to end with the Rogue trying to disengage or both dying if the Rogue's target doesn't die in the initial stunlock

Charm, Fear, Poly

it's less than half. it's 1.5 sec instead of 2.5. There is no one that is so slow they can't react to a 1.5 second cast. Now you're kind of reaching.

Cata leveling is so fucking bad, I'm happy you can just run dungeons and that's the fastest way to level.

interesting. never played rogue so I wouldnt know. mustve been those gnome fuckers with their escape artist that threw me off.

how is the rogue disengaging against a dot class though? if either of them puts up a full row of dots he's fairly likely to die regardless of whether he kills the caster or not.

Also a warlock is very likely to survive the stunlock if he's pvp spec because of soul link.

IIRC with inner Fire counted it's somewhere between mail and plate while Inner Fire lasts, then a bit worse than mail after that. Inner Fire runs out pretty fast with a Rogue shredding your anus though.
With PVP gear it's just enough to not get completely fucked without a fighting chance but obviously getting ambushed isn't a good time for any class.

GOGLGGLGLGLO

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Imp. Sprint breaks slow/root on use.

>even considering playing alliance

It's still gives you significantly better odds.

You are literally gaining nothing by casting frostbolt first. If he vanishes the first cast it doesn't matter either way. If your fist spell hits you can land 2-3 more if you have a dot, or none if you do not.

Enjoy being mediocre, I guess.

It's because these people have been doing those dungeons for years, maybe over a decade, and they don't want to waste time killing the same shit over and over again in order to get to relevant content.

Priests in Vanilla only had SW:Pain unless they were Undead. But those would be the most common Shadow Priests anyways.
Warlocks you're completely right.

so the game has been completely trivialized for new players because it's much better to pander to the autists who buy the monthly 20 dollar meme mount on the store?

Pandaren Neutral

>BfA introduces the ability to phase between different versions of zones
>Possible ability to phase to classic versions with classic releasing and being rebuilt
Would be nice.

You can blizzard where they vanish, they're slowed from the frost so more likely to get hit.

god bless viper sting

Would work exactly the same way with fireball 1 + frostbolt + scorch + fire blast, except you did more damage.

It was fun catching Paladins off guard with Mana Burn spam but that was never as bullshit as Viper Sting
Mass Dispeling their bubbles was a good laugh at least

NOOOOOOOOOO NOT MY MANA DELETE THIS

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has there ever been anything as cancer as rdruid + sl/sl lock?

>I hate when anyone but rogues warriors and druids can compete in 2s
Yeah, real sad mate.

Essentially yes. Blizz even stopped putting any effort into their raid content since pandering to mount buyers was more profitable. They've had to resort to putting stuff that literally takes 20 hours a week of effort in just to stay relevant in a good end game raiding guild.

mace rogue rdruid
glaives rogue rdruid

Your attack hits way harder from the correct spec. Not only does it hit harder, but it gives you instant cast procs for other spells. The game has changed a lot. Spells build off eachother now and combo. For example, fireball (fire spec) has a chance to give you an instant cast pyroblast. So why would you use ice bolt that takes the same abount of resources to cast? You would lose momentum. Nobody would use it. Nobody would even put it on their bar, so it got removed. At least this way the specs all feel different.

PvP has always been the real endgame. Loot treadmill is for shitters who can only fight against scripted enemies.

>stunherald arms warrior/resto druid
>beast cleave
>ret/dk

Offhands in Vanilla sometimes had actives, so yeah, having an active ability on your hotbar is pretty wise. You also had to activate wand auto attacks to manage your mana usage, priests loved to use wands to conserve mana in early leveling before they got spirit pieces.

and pvp in bgs is honor treadmill. unless youre talking about wpvp which is mostly just power tripping in brm entrance and dabbing on levelers. the only worthwhile ebin endgame content was organized raids on opposing faction cities.