Gungeon

You can find secret rooms by shooting at walls with a non-infinite ammo gun, A floor having multiple (or no) secret rooms is entirely based on the generation.
also that water barrel in the fireplace room on the first floor isn't just there for decoration.

Did the update make the game any better?
It just felt so slow to do anything, and if you started losing on a run it just felt like the entire floor would chip away at you only for the boss to finish you off.

Killed the lich for the first time today. God bless rainbow runs for being easy mode.

Don't forget to check secret rooms for secret rooms for an unlock that's an rng bitch to get.

>look for these bullet men that might appear and can easily get killed to unlock a secret

this is why i uninstalled the game

So why are both the 5th and 6th floor bosses easier than 4th floor bosses?

Attached: 1535495925113.png (741x568, 29K)

I figured that out it was neat but I wish the map generation had some rules like in The Binding of Isaac, that way getting shit weapons or items could be a balanced by searching secret rooms.

Underrated post

Made red chest loot better, increased the dps cap on bosses, added some great weapons and items, and added a rainbow chest mode in which you get to pick one of eight items at the beginning of each floor in exchange for no other weapons or items. Previous updates let you run faster between fights and increased ammo drops.

doesn't matter, they ruined it by gimping the multiplayer and adding the reload mechanic

Tf r u on about?

how the hell do i figure out how to get the new characters without looking it up or having it spoonfed to me

reload mechanic???

The first one is RNG. You'll know you find it when you see it. It can happen on any run. Just remember to use it.
The second one is unlocked by winning as the first unlocked character.

It's not hard at all
Jesus just play better you fucking casuals
yes, it's harder than the babby mode game that is Isaac but it's not hard

Attached: 1542765961095.png (881x595, 309K)

That user means reloading at all. No reloading would break the fuck out of explosives with their bullet erasing property.

They aren't. Wallmonger and Kill Pillars are the 2 easiest bosses in the game, with High Priest being moderate in difficulty, trending more towards the harder side.

So what video games would you consider hard?

Nuclear Throne is 10x as fun, but EtG has great art and music

Finding a girlfriend.

isaac is weird.

You can play isaac for hours and lose several times or you can win non-stop. It feels like if you don't get a dmg/fire rate upgrade on the early floors you should just quit.

I really want to like guneon but it's so fucking slow

Tedious is the word. Scaling damage is awful.

Did you toggle to option to walk faster outside combat in the menu

literally just RNG

any arena fps
single player games? the Hallownest Pantheon in HK is fucking hard I can admit that.

>the hardest bost is on the first floor
FUCK YOU GATLING GULL. FUCK YOU.

>the hardest boss
That's not Wallmonger.

Yeah i did, i feel like the general combat feels like i'm plinking away at enemies with a pathetic little peashooter most of the time

Trigger Twins fuck me up more. The gull is especially easy if you get a room layout where you can hide behind a pillar.

>Now that it's all done with
I stil can't finish fifth floor

isn't the isaac meta to hold down R until you get a chest room, then checking the item in it and continuing to hold R if its shit

If you know how to play it's really easy, there's plenty of chances to get items or health like secret rooms, super secret rooms, tinted rocks and devil rooms, every floor.

always found wallmonger fairly easy. not the easiest but not the hardest.

yeah having pillars makes him easy but then I feel like I just cheesed him instead of using skill.

Do you never get past the first floor

Not him but from 10 runs on 4 of them I die in the first floor, mostly because I don't get good items and boss fights are long and boring.

You know you can use the hunter and kill most of the first floow enemies with 1-2 shots, right

I've gotten to the 4th floor pretty constantly but never further, i'd like to play more the pace just demotivates me to keep playing

Yeah, so what? I never said that regular enemies were a problem.

"Hardest" first floor boss is Bullet King, because his abilities can fire off in such ways that using a blank is pretty much necessary to avoid damage.

>10 runs on 4 of them I die in the first floor, mostly because I don't get good items
no, that's not why. I assure you.

Attached: 1548017475080.png (421x503, 128K)

Trying to kill a boss with only the starting weapon is just not fun.

Then use the hunter.

All the starting weapons are shit for bosses, that includes Hunter's crossbow.

Yes but it's the least worst and therefore the best you've got.

So... get a Gun from a Chest.

still more boring than isaac which is an achievement

Don't be a smartass, even if the chests give you two weapons it still takes way to much time to kill a boss unless you get really lucky, it's boring.

Goalpost has been unsuccessfully moved.

FUCK CANNONBALROG

Enjoyed it a lot. Granted, I don't play a lot of Roguelites, just Rogue Legacy and Isaac mostly and I got really tired of the direction Isaac went and its huge bloat of worthless shitty items and bosses that had utterly obscene amounts of health and damage resistance, where it ultimately felt like my items mattered more than how I played. I can generally polish off at least Dragun with even the shittiest runs. Plus, Gungeon has shored up a lot of its problems with their updates in the way of adding synergies, turbo mode, and upping the DPS cap on bosses a bit. It's a pretty pleasing game to play, in terms of enjoyment and aesthetic. Fuck the rat punch out fight, though.

at least once you have amassed enough guns you can abuse the auto reload mechanic to kill bosses faster

Forgot my screenshot. Look how ridiculous this shit is, and moonscraper and quad laser aren't generally good guns.

Attached: quad laser.jpg (1680x1050, 259K)

>make a poor [genre] game
>make a poor [different genre] game
>duct tape them together
>everyone praises it
I hate this shit but it happens every time
Enter the Gungeon is trash both as a bullet hell and as a roguelite

It is indeed.

that's a cool mechanic

Don't forget to pet your dog.

Attached: dog.png (130x127, 9K)

>get hit by a boss once
>restart the game in frustration or just quit it for a while before starting it up again
This game makes me angry.

Attached: 1554574060457.jpg (450x450, 73K)

What the fuck.
Thank you. How is this shit not default.

Attached: 1547203518604.jpg (220x266, 15K)

I shouldn't have chuckled on this but I did
Good job user

Attached: 1552513871621.jpg (312x219, 10K)

>tfw can get through Dragun with only two or fewer hits as long as I got good dps but Ammoconda manages to hit me 3 times each run I get him as the 2nd floor boss.

Attached: 1542269814641.jpg (960x720, 58K)

Well, shit. Lay down some suggestions for some running around, gunning down shit.

All bullet hell games are fucking bullshit and should not be allowed to exist.

>tfw you get a clone and a non-preset rainbow chest on a rainbow run
Holy fuck this is fun, combined with some random stuff you get on paradox, things can get real broken real fast, which is a lot of fun after getting good in previous updates.

I really don't get why people struglle a lot with it, the only bad thing was getting a bunch of absolute dogshit weapons and not really being at a point where you can forfeit the run, but i think that was aleviated a bit.

Great game, surprisingly funny gun jokes too.

IIRC the out of combat speed boost was something you had to enable in the settings. Not sure why, it damn near saves your sanity

Clone is fucking stupid. Also, this is a petty complaint, but I hate how good Bullet is. He's leaps and bounds better than every other playable character with the exception of maybe Gunslinger now, but he's carried by his broken ass passive

Attached: clone run.jpg (1680x1050, 233K)

The wild synergies are the best part. Every once in a while you get something like Antibodies or 360 Yes Scope and it totally changes the flow of the game

Same for me. It moves too fast after eating and always decides to rams into me. It takes too much to destroy the segments it can eat, and I don't even see them half the time.

Truly minigun + ticket is the best synergy for bosses.

>finally find a random rainbow chest
>destroy it to see it anything neat happens
>junk

I still have yet to get the best combo. It's not even an official synergy

If you get the Supa Hot Watch and Bloodied Red Bandana at the same time you can teleport to your cursor without moving time

Excuse me? Why doesnt this have a FUCKING easy mode?

It's called rainbow mode.

I know your post is probably sarcastic but Rainbow Mode is pretty cheesy

>tfw realising you don't need to run away from the enemies, you are the enemy!

Attached: 1542823250784.jpg (640x674, 70K)

There was another update?

The final update. More guns, synergies, new mode, higher boss DPS cap and 2 new characters

Rainbow mode. It's like a card game draft but for Rogue-lite.

After many failed attempts for this game to grab my attention, I think I finally got the hang of it.

I managed to built that fucking bullet and get the true ending for one of the characters. It took me some time, but I suppose that's part of the experience. It's one of those games where you are expected to sink a ton of hours into.

With this update, how does it compare to BoI in terms of content?
also is it just me or is there a considerable amount of MGS references in this?

Attached: 7A40695E-0E48-4675-B16F-24578A81DA4F.jpg (1300x936, 86K)

Dont forget that your 2 blanks regen each floor, I typically just use them in a chest room that's separated from other rooms

Not even mentioning, it breaks the platforming rooms

Yeah, plenty of MGS references, like 5-6 MGS related items, plus some scenes with a secret boss, way more than any other videogame, the other one being Zelda, i guess.

Once you know what Kind of fire pattern all the mobs have, its very hard to fail a run honestly, even with horrible rng.

Amazing how well Blasphemy can carry you
Too bad I lost when I was playing as Gunslinger and didn't unlock him

Attached: Gungeon.jpg (2048x1152, 302K)

I think this is what new players miss the most. Every attack has a windup or tell just like Bayonetta or DMC. Once I learned this I started to get better

Except those flying dices, holy fuck, fuck those things to high heavens.

It's a bullet hell that tries to be a roguelike and it sucks hard for it. Most of the skill comes down to surviving endurance tests against enemies and bosses that have retarded scaling on their health, where every several dozen runs you actually get a weapon or synergy that can break the game wide open, but that doesn't happen often enough to justify the tedious slag that's the entire game.

Which is a shame because despite the presentation is 10/10, the game is basically a very stylized Isaac but most of the pickups suck and every boss is equivalent to Ultra Greed or Hush.

Rainbow runs are more fun than regular runs

>Now that it's all done with
This is bullshit, what happen to the upperr levels of the Gungeon? All those rooms above the main hall and we can only go down?

I think the new secret floor is based on Shadow Moses, but I might be wrong.
The floor's boss though, is literally the Hind D fight from the original game. The boss even quotes Liquid.

>down
user, there is no "down" in the Gungeon.
Well, except for Oubliette, Church floor, Rat, and R&G
There's 6 chambers.
And what does a Gunslinger wield?

>The boss even quotes Liquid
the boss is voiced by cam clarke, he's a Liquid reference down to the T

Gunslinger seems to just use a normal revolver but throws it when he reloads, a literal "Gunslinger"

All his bullets have homing though as his passive

Not what I was talking about, but neat.

After 19 hours I can safely say I don't like any of the starter characters. I haven't even beat the past on any of them, farthest I've ever gotten was chamber 4. Unlocking shortcuts is a fucking RNG shitfest, especially the requirement key and casings one, this 3 armour bullshit is infuriating. I can't even get Bullet and trying to get robot is fucking impossible.
This game is Hell incarnate.
But holy fuck is it fun and addicting.

Thoughts on Rainbow mode?

If there's nobody you like playing as, then just alternate between Pilot and Marine.
Pilot for when you wanna give Mr. Elevator Repairman all your money and otherwise Marine.

Attached: Tailor.png (388x456, 45K)

It's fun but easy to scum by just restarting until you get a good weapon or item in the first chest, unless you're playing paradox or gunslinger.

If you get a Vulcan Cannon or Mourning Star in the first chest, or something like the hero's bandana then you're pretty set

"""Hard""""
>Completely dependent on what guns you get on the first floor
>Slow as fuck
>Giant hitboxes but pretends to be a SHMUP
>Inconsistent boss difficulty
>Need to unlock EVERYTHING, start with the shittiest, most uninteresting guns in the game in a game about wacky guns
Only thing I dig about the game is the pixel art destruction, it's pretty wonderful looking at a room and the wanton carnage you unleashed on it after a fight

>Nope
>Been fixed via a combination of new setting and a new NPC you unlock
>M-my hitbox isn't 1 fucking pixel, so it's not a proper bullet hell!
>Agreed
>Agreed, this honestly needed tweaking from the start, but it's too late for that

I just need to get through this 3 armour requirement first off, but even when starting as Marine it is hard as shit. Feels like I'm hoping for RNG to overfill me or for any of the knight gear to drop while also relying on getting Beholster and only Beholster because Ammoconda and Gorgun are fucking bullshit.

Why do people sperg over rogue like vs roguelight
what is the fucking difference

Why do so many people on Yea Forums praise Nuclear Throne but hate on Enter the Gungeon? Is Yea Forums just a bunch of casuals who don't take the time to become better at a game and also just want to have a win handed down to them without any effort involved? Shoot, I am able to beat the first and sometimes the second boss with just my starting weapon.

>>Completely dependent on what guns you get on the first floor

Do you even Dodge roll?

I feel like point #5 is fixed by the chambers, R.R. can give you an alternating three guns for free upon starting.

>>Been fixed via a combination of new setting and a new NPC you unlock
>Slow gameplay is a massive turn off
>Haha we added in a turbo mode for you people, you just need to play through a few runs of the shitty, slow gameplay you dislike to get it
>>M-my hitbox isn't 1 fucking pixel, so it's not a proper bullet hell!
Wouldn't be a problem if the game didn't pretend the hitbox was that small

Gorgun is way easier than you think.
Protip: Dodgerolling should be a last resort. If you can walk around the bullets, do so.
Also, Armor Synthesizer.

Why would you unlock shortcuts ever? They're just a way to gimp yourself/farm the enemies for the hunt.

>talks shit about casuals
>refuses to play real bullet hells which are 100 times more challenging than his precious meme game

>The Virgin Table Flipper vs The Chad Dodge Roller

I've never played Nuclear Throne, but people hate Enter the Gungeon because it's fucking slow.

>Gungeon
>Not casual as all fuck
You can't get carried from the first level to the Throne in NT because you got a lucky drop

Because learning a floor is a tough and tedious chore that would take 10x as long without the ability to start from a given instantly.
Also because I'm bad. Don't worry, I won't be able to abuse my crutch if I ever plan on getting Gunslinger.

Then go play a bullet hell game. If Gungeon isn't your cup of tea then so be it.

You can't talk shit about casuals while defending Gungeon, pick one or the other

I think the difference is that in Roguelites you can get permanent upgrades or unlocks and in Roguelikes it's permadeath and you don't unlock anything.

I'd be more open to turning on that setting if traps and pits were fucking covered after clearing a room, being too fast to notice that the room I just walked into had a pit right next to the entrance is fucking irritating.

Spelunky is a true roguelike because every run has nothing to do with previous runs. It's entirely dependent on player skill and experience.
Enter the Gungeon is a true roguelite because, while still relying on skill and experience, has multiple forms of permanent "progression", even if none of them are just essentially save points.

Because most people who get EtG get it expecting it to like BoI or NT but different. What you get is something that's almost a different genre (twinstick shooter vs bullet hell). Both BoI and NT are games where you don't need to be prescient of enemy attacks and patterns in order to beat them, but rather it's all about how well you read the situation and improvise. EtG on the other hand expects and pretty much requires you to memorize everything.
Frankly, it doesn't communicate the difference well enough. A lot of the negativity comes from wrong expectations. It took me fucking 20 hours of playing over three years to get over it. Now I'm kind of finally having fun, though I still wish it was more like NT (and/or BoI).

I don't understand this ""slow"" meme everyone is talking about. I think gungeon plays just fine.

Rouguelike is a game that takes major swathes from Rogue, for example Brogue, Nethack, Demon
Roguelite is for pussy faggot R*dditors, for example FTL, Isaac, Gungeon

Because "roguelike" is a specific genre of video game that roguelites are not.

Attached: Rogue_Screen_Shot_CAR.png (637x371, 23K)

so unlocking items in the item drop pool or characters is rogue lite?
binding of isaac and risk of rain?

thats a vague and non descriptive answer
>they are different
no shit

>have extremely good run
>chance to take out a demon that's been haunting you for many runs
>game crashes due to memory leaks
>lose motivation to try again
well it's been a fun couple of hours since the update

No, see If it's not "like Rogue" then it's not a roguelike.
Permadeath and randomized levels are not enough to make a game "like Rogue" any more than having guns is enough to make a game a first person shooter.

Then what aspects of Rogue need to be applied to make a game Rogue-like if those aspects aren't enough? What makes Risk of Rain a Rogue-like, for example?

The truth is that "roguelike" is a fucking worthless meme term that can be applied to every single thing and nobody agrees on its definition and what separates rogue-lites from roguelikes.
>Some say its ONLY turn based to be roguelike.
>Some say it has to have NO unlocks to be roguelike.
>Some say you have to lose EVERYTHING on death (THIS CAN MAKE FUCKING MINECRAFT A ROGUELIKE IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHAT THE FUCK.)
Its fucking retarded.

Attached: ooh hhhhn im angry.jpg (612x600, 71K)

>Ammoconda is a second floor boss

He's tougher than most of the bosses after him. He can heal himself and his bullet patterns, combined with his erratic movement, all come together to make his fight an absolute, unfun clusterfuck that drains your blanks. He wouldn't be such a big deal if he didn't pop up so early in the game. You'll rarely have weapons and items so good as to melt him down at that point.

Attached: absence.jpg (1915x1078, 158K)

>going for three armor shortcut
>walk into boss room
>ammoconda
>quick restart

Attached: gaKS7R4mtw-10.png (300x250, 28K)

Risk of Rain ISN'T a roguelike.
Look at the screenshot in That is Rogue.
If your game does not look or play like that it is not a roguelike because it is not like Rogue.
You can take design elements from roguelikes and apply them to different genres of games and then you have roguelike-likes (aka roguelites), but roguelikes are a specific kind of game that goes beyond just having randomized levels and permadeath.

I just started playing gungeon
what do I need to know
should I spoil myself?

Ammoconda's difficulty for me comes from the fact that the spheres it spawns have too much health and take ages to kill if you lack DPS. The only more annoying boss for me is the high priest with his meme random flying bullets around the arena.

So you guys play exclusively on Turbo mode, right? It's the only way the game isn't too slow. Yes I'm getting hit more often but I'm also having more fun.

Uninstall, return, and buy something else

>Return
user, please...

The items will never give you a good idea of what they do. Just wiki it

So you're retarded.
Got it.
Next anonymous poster, please step forward.

They usually appear in chest rooms and the exit elevator room, check those. If you have spare blanks pop one in the shop, they also appear there but obviously you can't just going guns blazing.

I pirated the base game some years ago, but bought it with this update; can I just play it like I did back then (doing things like doing the entire first floor with just the starter gun to save on keys, or using up keys before entering shops to ensure they have a key for sale) or is that stuff bad now?

Good argument.
Really showed me with that complete lack of a rebuttal.

>hurr durr if the game isn't a direct 1:1 copy to another game then it's not like it at all
that's it
that's what you're expecting me to rebut

I'm pretty sure they updated it so that shops will always sell at least 1 key, so that's not something you need to worry about anymore.

Because that is indeed the case.
Roguelikes were a thing LONG before the first roguelites started popping up, and they all play very similarly at their core.

Attached: Angband.png (640x400, 5K)

That's literally a roguelike, zoomie

Spelunky is a roguelike, and the only difference between it and Risk of Rain is the extreme hardcore factor and unlockables. Explain how this is incorrect.
Unless you're beyond retarded and don't think Spelunky is a roguelike.

But that''s not the Door Mimic.

Spelunky isn't a roguelike, it's a roguelite.
And no, saying "you're retarded if you disagree with me" doesn't make you any less wrong.

Attached: omega.gif (640x400, 10K)

>it's a literal autists show up and start arguing semantics in a roguelike thread episode
epic every time

Attached: 3df.jpg (686x751, 54K)

I beat the Gunslinger's boss of Two Liches with one being Jammed my first time trying, was it supposed to be difficult?
I didn't even have any broken synergies, I was just using a Sling

Attached: 1487854903509.gif (350x327, 380K)

>Spelunky isn't a roguelike

Attached: (you).png (477x408, 205K)

>tfw trying to kill a boss with the rogue special

Jesus fuck that weapon makes me unhappy

Attached: patches&mendy.gif (500x500, 140K)

eyo Gungeon is a pretty fun game my guys, how about that Gungeon?

That is correct.

Attached: firefox_2019-04-12_00-34-16.png (832x129, 17K)

it's not supposed to be difficult user
it's literally the easiest phase of Lich made slightly harder

Advanced Gungeons and Dragons turned this game from "Too tedious and RNG filled to ever be fun" into my favourite Rogue-lite to play
They're really nailing down the difficulty and the possible Synergies keep me coming back for more

I started playing it a few weeks ago and I'm really liking it. Trying to remain unspoiled so far (besides when I'm 90% sure what something is and look it up to confirm) and having a lot of fun with unlocks and figuring out the different progressions. I understand why a lot of people would dislike it, but I'm definitely happy with it.

Sling OP. Honestly enjoyable "gun"

So you can unlock the AKEY-47, of course.
The boss rush too, I guess.

Nice wikipedia my guy, meanwhile literally everywhere else refers to it as a roguelike.
The whole basis of your argument is "if it's not top-down-turn-based it's not a roguelike."
Are third person shooters and first person shooters not under the same umbrella genre of shooters? Are battle royales not shooters? At what point does a fucking game genre morph into the point where it's not the same genre? If you can answer this question then I will concede. However, I very highly doubt you can without projecting your own personal biases on the subject.

So do they explain the synergies somewhere, or do I still have to stop playing and pop over to the wiki every time I find a new synergy?

Spelunky doesn't play like Rogue at all, the only similarities is progression being solely the players, you silly willy

the hunting quests are abominably tedious. most other unlocks aren't nearly as bad as these. maybe only akey-47 is as bad as the hunting quests.
i did unlock bullet today and i'm shocked at how fucking fun blasphemy is to use though. a truly great experience to play through.

Okay, I'll agree with you on that at least.

Reminder your favorite indie piece of trash with procedural levels and """"perma"""" death (with meta progression ofc) is not a roguelike and roguelite isn't even a real thing, its just a made up marketing term so nebulous as to include literally anything

Attached: 1544811438703.jpg (639x359, 21K)

You keep literally saying the definition of what a roguelike is over and over

>reinstall because of the update
>about to steal the rat key
>remember the retarded boxing fight
Gunslinger is fun as fuck btw

Attached: 442.png (540x788, 719K)

This guy has been sitting here drinking since BEFORE the gunslinger became the lich. What a fucking loser.

Attached: 20190406155604_1.jpg (1680x987, 129K)

I have like 40 hours and I suck. Only just "beat" it. Barely unlocked anything other than guns and items. I can get Master Chambers for floor 1 and 2 pretty consistently. I don't know how I'm supposed to even come close to the supplies needed to unlock floor skipping.

>Gunslinger
>Blessed run
This is so fucking fun

God, I wish we could just abolish the term "rougelike," such a fucking stupid term for the genre with its exact definition argued to hell and back. We all know what someone means when they try to say a game is a roguelike, there's no need to argue these dumb semantics and waste everyone's time. Can we just come up with a term that doesn't have "rogue" in the name?

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is fundamentally almost the same as Rogue, but with actual graphics, a more digestible user interface, and deeper gameplay. It is not "like" Rogue, but plays almost the exact same fundamentally. Is this a Rogue-like?

Attached: Dungeon_crawl_stone_soup.png (800x481, 137K)

>meanwhile literally everywhere else refers to it as a roguelike.
>everyone else is a retard why can't I be one too!
>tfw sjws are so warped and insane they are changing the definition of a genre for "inclusivity"

Attached: roguelike inclusivity.png (642x154, 17K)

You focus down one Shortcut requirement at a time and eventually, it's just done.

floor skipping is a meme that actually hinders you if anything
just ignore it

Yes it does play like rogue, it is literally a roguelike
Calling Spelunky a roguelike is like calling fucking Killing Floor a rougelike

>sjws
something something rent free

how about just call your indie trash what it is, top down shoot em up, platformer, fps whatever, and let actual roguelikes be called roguelikes

Attached: is it a roguelike.png (3280x2632, 222K)

the way to unlock the shortcuts is to do the secret chambers in addition to the normal chambers. i was only able to unlock the hollow's shortcut by doing every possible prior chamber to it and being conservative. to get the forge's shortcut i got lucky with gold junk.

RIP Lamey 2018-2018

I like her design and was interested to see what her story was.

Attached: Lamey.png (123x136, 4K)

As I have said before, a roguelike is a very specific genre of game that has existed for many years before the first roguelites started showing up. The vast majority of roguelikes look and play more or less the same based on the game they're taking after, Rogue. The game "morphs" into a different genre when it stops playing like other games in that genre, as Spelunky plays absolutely nothing like Rogue or any of its many descendants and only takes inspiration from some of the design philosophies.

The tiles in DCSS are an optional feature which doesn't actually change anything and the game still plays very much like every other rogue like.

Attached: 2011-02-08_image2.jpg (716x522, 195K)

Okay, so if it plays the same, it is like it, therefore it is a Rogue-like.
Where does this line end.
Are Battle Royales not shooters?
Are RTS not strategy games because they're not turn-based like the first strategy games were?
The point is that you're arguing over semantics that were loosely-defined ever since their existence. The reason why this argument even exists is because it's a term that nobody has ever formally agreed-upon. The creator of Rogue didn't coin this term with a set definition. It's just one that has been evolved over time because it's a shitty blanket term. Like MOBAs. MOBAs aren't even fucking MOBAs. They're not Battle Arenas, they're fucking team-based single-unit RTS games.

I want to play this game and I'm a broke NEET, does anyone know where I can download an updated version?

>it's a term that nobody has ever formally agreed-upon

Attached: 1446193079601.png (500x294, 12K)

>The reason why this argument even exists is because it's a term that nobody has ever formally agreed-upon.
That's wrong though
roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation#High_value_factors

>Still replying
Jesus Christ.

How low is your IQ that you need to have a debate on what roguelike and roguelite mean
there's nothing unclear about either definition

You are actually fucking disabled, my man.
>Does it have the same fundamental gameplay as Rogue
>Does it look like Rogue (top down)
>Is it procedurally generated
>Is there no in-game progression between runs
If it checks all these boxes, it's a Roguelike, for example Stone Soup, Brogue, Demon, Nethack
If it checks some of them but not all, it's a Rogue-lite, for example Gungeon, Isaac, Strafe, Nuclear Throne
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, grab one game from each example, play them both and you will 100% understand the difference

>try to have a comfy gungeon thread
>faggots come shit up the thread arguing about their petty definition of the genre

Attached: IptG07W.png (453x414, 120K)

Gungeon is poop and fans of it don't deserve peaceful discussion

>petty
You can say 2+2 = 3 all you want but it doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make someone trying to correct you "petty"

>gungeon
Dungeon Crawl SS is more challenging and a better game
Play Something like Brouge if you want a challenge

Blame this guy and then the people who started sperging out when told the difference.

>there's nothing unclear about either definition
then this shitfest shouldn't exist but here we are
words only mean what the crowd agrees they mean, and the crowd can't agree where the line is drawn on a roguelike vs roguelite, therefore its meaning is lost
it's been this way ever since this shitty genre started

have you even finished the game?

well one is a genre term and the other is a marketing term that is so nebulous it can include literally anything, from first person shooters, platformers, puzzle games, racing games etc.

it's blindingly obvious that 'roguelites' are games in other genres that have things like procedural generation and permadeath

They really need to die. Autistic retards who only come here to argue, 14 hours a day.

Super hot watch is GOAT
I've cheesed a few achievements using that item.
The downside is the time commitment.

>roguelite
>good

name 500 games where this is true

Attached: 1554878459194.png (616x599, 153K)

>it's been this way ever since this shitty genre started
It literally hasn't and no amount of revisionism is going to change that
The first roguelike was made in 1982, and every other roguelike from then until the 2000s followed much the same formula.
It wasn't until the popularity of Spelunky which released in 2008 that people started trying to slap the name roguelike on every new indie game that featured permadeath.

I’m hoping mods can eventually restore the unused characters and other content, a lot of it was finished and reimplemented in the updates but there’s still interesting stuff that’s only sitting in the files

Well the definition of RPG (Role-Playing Game) is very clear as well but yet in current year we call games like Lisa RPGs. Genre wars are as intellectually honest as debating whether or not en passant should be optional or not.

unincluded content is unincluded because it's bad

The definition of RPG is extremely unclear actually
You have to be an idiot to not understand what roguelite means

99% of the time they don't even have permadeath. The game that coined the term, Rogue Legacy, has meta progression.
The only thing that is "blindingly obvious" is that idiots who buy into these shitty indie games are so desperate to be considered "hardcore" or something, and can't accept that the only reason their shitty indie trash has proc gen and """""perma""""" death is because the dev's are too lazy to actually design levels and are trying to cash in on a fad

Attached: cata ascii.gif (774x776, 32K)

meta progression is a different thing. permadeath means if you die during the run the run is over and you can't go back to a previous save. That's obvious, you're just being obtuse for the sake of having an argument because you don't like roguelites or something

Fuck Gatling Gull with no cover
Fuck Ammoconda
Fuck High Priest
Fuck Pillars

If the definition of Roguelite wasn't unclear then we wouldn't be having this conversation now, would we?

It's a fake argument from people who don't like them

kill pillars are fine. you're missing mineflayer and wallmonger on your bullshit list.

Fuck Gatling Gull in particular.
>starts firing
>keeps firing
>keeps on firing
>holy shit he's still firing
>I can't keep dodging this forever holy fuck
>finally take a hit after one rogue bullet spreads to the area I was going to dodge
Him and Ammoconda are the only bosses that I truly think are unfun.

>meta progression is different
no shit sherlock
and ALL so called "roguelites" have it. Rogue Legacy, Immortal Redneck etc. They don't have perma death, and Rogue Legacy coined the term "roguelite", so how does "roguelite" mean a game has permadeath?

get good

The majority of the time when he starts spraying if you don't move all his shots miss unless he's extremely close to you. So you just move backwards from him without moving to his sides unless you would get hit, in which case either move slightly or roll out of the spread

I can like them just fine, just don't call them something they aren't or use the shitty marketing term "roguelite"

all genres are marketing terms
you're mad about nothing

no they aren't you fucking idiot
And most roguelikes are free. At least the ones worth playing are, and the ones you can pay for on steam have free ones available unless you're talking about casual baby shit like dungeons of dredmore

I was on my way to fight the Rat with the Gunslinger and my dying video card died in the middle of the run. Anyway I can load up a quick save from where I was?

>implying you cant market free things
you have some false sense of superiority because you play a shitty video game
get over yourself

>enter room
>camera jerks forward to get a view on an enemy
>completely ignores the other enemies in the room who are now impossible to see without moving incredibly far towards the edge of the screen where their shots are going to be coming from

I’ve “finished” DCSS in that I’ve left the dungeon with the orb of Zot before

>user died in the one case this happened
>go and complain about it as if it's a chronic problem

desu a kid playing bing bing wahoo can have a sense of superiority over a sad cunt playing a """"""roguelite""""""

Not him, it's a consistent problem in the game
In a game so stingy with health and a permadeath mechanic, it's pretty unacceptable to be hit from off screen so often

B-BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE AN ASCII TILESET!

t. Literal autist

I agree, in a game like this, enemy attacks you can't see off screen are tragic, but I've never encountered a problem where I can't see the bullets due to the camera.
And I'm on a 20 win streak right now

Just stay away from him, have him outside of the screen if possible and keep firing in his general direction. If you don't have a weapon that can do that get some patience and kill him during the stationary attacks. For Ammoconda all you need to do is focus on killing the balls.

or turn based gameplay, or a top down view, or complexity, or a uniform grid of tiles, or hack and slash gameplay

you know, most things that are on the high value part of the berlin interpertation

Dont reply to roguelike vs roguelite posters

Attached: 78ygugubgy'.png (205x284, 137K)

with which characters/game modes?

Whatever character I felt like, Marine to Pilot to Convict, playing without game-modes

It's definitely luck of the drops sometimes. Like, if you end up only getting shitty drops, you aren't going to do much.

I made it to floor 7 the first time pretty much only on the strength of Rubenstein's Monster, shredded everything in my path from Floor 2 onwards.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the health to back it up by that point.

What the fuck is Floor 7?

>Nuclear Throne is 10x as fun

ten times zero is still zero though

Trigger Twins fuck me up if I don't kill the Smiley one first. When he enrages, he has like, no start up on his charge, so he just bodies me.

Yeah, unless you're the other end of the arena, I.E, far enough away that the projectiles have spread out, you're fucked.

Are RTS games not strategy games because every strategy game starting out was turn-based?

Yeah, I agree with this one. Gattling Gull happens to be the easiest boss in the game for me because he's so predictable, but Bullet King can really fuck you up with that big shot he fires up top that splits off into random patterns

False equivalency retard.

>Finished Gun
Holy fuck son

How is that a false equivalency? All that's changed is speed in both scenarios.

Holly hell i finally beat bullet hell, the membrane and scatter shot really carried the run along with the snake gun that practically murdered every maggot shotgunner before they could hit me. Also the Lichs second form was the hardest surprisingly.

Attached: 20190412015949_1.jpg (1920x1080, 312K)

>155 deaths
What the fuck?
I've beaten Bullet Hell with my second time using Robot, and I've had 4 deaths over-all
Is the game easier on PS4 or something?

>scattershot
Literally gimping yourself.
Scattershot splits your damage in 3 for the sake of spread, it's shit.

you lie

They both have elements of strategy games, but one for example is turn based and one is in real time which makes them different.

Both roguelites and roguelikes have elements of rogue - but in one for example time moves only when you move and the other one is in real time which makes them different

I can post you a screenshot of my deaths and unlocks, but it's PS4 and screenshot taking is annoying.
If you really need proof, I can go to that length user.

I'm seriously asking, is the game easier on Consoles or did Binding of Isaac Rebirth permanently rewired my head after getting Real Platinum God?

Still haven't actually beat it. Pretty sure I just suck ass at bullet hell games - I always choke when going up against the bosses.
Really like the game although going through the first floor each time is tedious and I'm not a big fan of how not perfecting at least the first couple of bosses is practically an instant restart.

im not but the game is a bit easier on controller. you have better control of movement with an analog stick rather than wasd.
i would like to see a screenshot though because you are impressive if you tell the truth.

I absolutely agree that controller is great
You get 360 degree movement and your dodging is a lot more precise because of it.

And if you have any way of me being able to show stats apart from dying, I'll give you the totals.

is the game really easier on a controller?
I thought aiming would be harder.

This.
Binding of Issac ( a very similar style of game), had NO dps caps until adding two (or three) bosses with it in rebirth.
I hated those bosses. What's the point of getting any weapon if it's just gonna be capped? It's lame.
Yeah, sometimes you do a crap ton of damage to a boss--but so what? It worked well enough for Issac. You can get great combo of weapons and powers there and reap rewards. Let me do it in this game too.

aiming is more important than dodging
360 degree dodge rolls is useful some places like lich phase 1 but thats it

you can get overpowered in gungeon, you just cant make short work of bosses (most of the time)

Controller has auto aim,you can lock on to bosses off screen or just lock into enemy and focus on dodging while dealing a lot of damage.

Controller increases FOV significantly,on PC there are blind spots that you wont see coming until you learn the rooms by heart.

Some people only play on a controller and these two factors give them advantage.

>Controller increases FOV significantly,on PC there are blind spots that you wont see coming until you learn the rooms by heart.
what the fuck does this mean

Trying to unlock it atm.
Came close 100 times but somehow i get fucked on the dragon.

You know how the camera zooms out when you fight the dragon?
Well the controller gives you that overview of the map since floor 1.

>gungeon
>comfy
trash game only deserves trash threads

Does it work better with angry bullets? Also it mostly helped along the way since the snake pistol has a chance to one hit kill enemies so the transformation chance basically got tripled.

The problem is that there's a fixed cap on "how long does it take me to kill this boss" (aside from cut-scenes)
I think there's one or two weapons that can break cap. Good luck getting them.

Why get a high damage weapon? To more easily destroy trash that isn't that big a problem anyway?

It's pretty alright with those conditions, with bullets that have a chance to transmogrify. It also makes explosives fantastic, but I usually skip it whenever I get the chance
Angry Bullets is great anyway for all instances

barely any guns will hit the damage cap without any passives to go with them
"trash" can just as easily take hits off you as a boss can

If your wondering I was obviously using keyboard and mouse also I bought the game at launch played for around 10-20 hours quit because of the slow pace so I mostly died to the third or fourth boss. Then Gungeons and Draguns hit which got me to play 60 more hrs so I focused on getting better with each class in addition to killing there pasts also there were a lot of failed bullet that can kill the past runs with the help of bad rng and Ammoconda. Now that the final update hit it I actually got lucky and was able to clear lich easy without much trouble.

That makes more sense then
I can't imagine playing this without the Gungeons and Dragons loot profile
Dodgeroll have done a fantastic job at smoothing the edges and making the game fun and challenging at once, without arbitrary RNG bullshit deaths

Except this one time I beat the Lich, and I died from the cutscene freezing me
youtube.com/watch?v=jmKOB5j5H8w

Of all bosses the three that really push my shit are the Kill Pillars, Door Mimic and the flying fucking bomb miniboss.

That motherfucker always shows up in the Forge and I never get Shadow Agunim or Ser Blockner, always that bomb fag

Gunegon never had RNG bullshit deaths, it only had RNG bullshit ammo drops until they fixed it

Gatling Gull in a room without cover is the hardest first floor boss, sure. Ammoconda alone is worse.

Fusilier I don't have much trouble with, I absolutely hate getting Door Mimic though.
It's so rare that you don't know the patterns to his attacks and you get ram raided.
Kill Pillars is annoying when they do the stomp from one wall to the other attack, I can never dodge it. As soon as one of them dies though, it's way more predictable

>mfw i killed lich before the update and a 600 death count on PC

Kill pillars always fucks me when she transform into Kaliber

Yeah, if you're inexperencied or had so many runs that you're starting to get bored.
Anyone between the two end shouldn't do this, ruins the game greatly.

That's the easiest part though
If you dodge towards it at a 45 degree angle so you're dodging just away from the statue itself, you can never get hit by the ring of bullets. Just head up and down the screen as you dodge towards the ring.

Gungeons and Dragons really did turn the game around from a frustrating slog to a semi fast paced shooter that rewards memorization and adaptability. Now I gotta either kill the bullets past, unlock the robot, or kill the rat and I'm really not looking forward to he three phase rat fight on the third floor of all things.

Attached: 1539833334099.jpg (500x575, 60K)

Gungeon is slow as shit and unaesthetic.

It feels like the Gungeon creators were deliberately picking up the most unfun mechanics possible in the fucking genre and rolled them all into a single game.
DPS caps for already boring bullet sponge bosses? Check.
Abundance of shitty RNG for gun drops because of limited tiered chest system you can't even always open up because keys are limited? Check
Mostly uninteresting synergies, boring gun and ability design? Check.
No ability to randomize the starting loadout Dead Cells style so you're forced to choose between multiple painfully boring starters? Check.
Secret rooms that give no hints about their whereabouts forcing you to just shoot all the walls in treasure rooms? Check.
Enemy HP scaling with each level? Check.
Retarded unlocking methods for characters? Check.
Awful fucking music and low pacing of an already slow as shit game? Check.
Wall mimics that give literally no reward for defeating them? Check.
It's the worst piece of garbage in this entire genre i've ever wasted my time on. Can't believe i've clocked nearly 50 hours in it hoping it will get better.

Holly shit user that's determination if I ever saw it I salute you.

Attached: 1552134894704.png (1280x800, 649K)

The Rat's boss fight is the one I just can't pin down, I don't dare go into his level without good weapons. His Metal Gear is easily the hardest boss in the game.
The Lich I can handle with great ease, I got his patterns down pat the other day, but fuck the Rat.

Good luck on the Bullet's past, it took me 3 tries to do it.
And unlocking The Robot is infinitely easier if you can get flight from something. I had Balloon Gun when I did it whilst also beating The Gunslinger's past at the same time

Rogue Special is absolute dogshit. By far the worst starting weapon, I hate using it when I'm going for elevator runs.

Yeah no shit.
Having a broken keyboard on my laptop didnt hep either.
I went to the store and got a proper keyboard so I can finish the fucking game.

It's like when we have a thread about coming up with the worst game mechanics ever, and they looked at it and went "Ye"

>party mask + gold ammolet
>with r2g2 + super space turtle + phoenix up
we real meme builds now

Attached: 1515267532284.jpg (400x386, 25K)

I meant floor/chamber 6, just a mistype on my part.

Literally the only time I've made it down there though.

>retarded unlocking methods
>awful music
>slow as shit game
>no ability to randomize starting loadout

Three of these are purely subjective, and the last one has been addressed with the inclusion of The Paradox and The Gunslinger, which start with random guns.

only if you suck at it, faggot

Attached: 1554240787649.png (1000x1000, 124K)

Nothing is as dumb as 360 Yes Scope
I got it while I was piss drunk once, and I couldn't stop laughing at being able to 5440 no scope insta killing bosses

I remember people defending the DPS cap in the beginning but since the developers are fixing that in the last update they admit wrongdoing so I want to hear those anons story now.
Its especially evident when you have a A grade gun and killing a shell on floor 1 takes 3 hits as well as shell on floor 5,so there is not much of a benefit is there.
The RNG problem was fixed with the advanced dungeons update,the amount of key and ammo drops were ridiculous before,so fixing that they admit wrongdoing again.
Synergies at least for me were non existent until the advanced update so yeah.
The game as is now its mostly fixed.

They basically weren't existent until the Advanced update, actually.
I'm glad they worked on that as much as they did, Synergies are the reason I keep playing now.

Attached: chrome_RZOktcHqIW.png (886x73, 101K)

>since the developers are fixing that in the last update they admit wrongdoing so I want to hear those anons story now
its still in the game

I see it as a lazy way to balance the game nothing more.
At least now shit is less stupid then it used to.
There is probably a mod that removes the cap and balances the game properly.
Im still mad that traps dont hurt enemies when they step on them.

Considering you get more credits and extra heart containers for no damaging a boss, I don't mind the DPS cap all that much.
Binding of Isaac had more of a problem with bosses that had waaaaay too much fucking health.

The main issue with the game is that Ammo is too scarce and so are drops.
This means that you run the first three levels with your starting gun over and over and over again, if you roll a decent weapon.
And that's boring.

>At least now shit is less stupid then it used to.
It's not really noticably different
Not sure why people are upset there are things in the game to make it pose a challenge
If you enjoy winning through RNG play a slot machine

I just walk into a room and then the lil nigga pops his flash and nearly everything gets oneshotted.

FYI slot machines have 33% daily payout in them required by law.
So that game is also honked from the start.

Play rainbow mode until you get a blackhole gun, then every boss literally can't hit you. Bonus points if you get orbiting bullets.

My craziest combo was blockbraker, or whatever the turtleshell shooting gun is called, plus 2 or three special bullet types that made projectiles larger over time and extra bouncy. Would fire one shell off in a room and it would grow so large that a single pixel of the sprite filled the whole room.

anyone knows where i can find the last update?
i have pirated gog version.

>WAA GAME TOO HARD WAA
look faggot this is a game you put hours in, not pick up and play, you get slowly better and better, and i bet you dont look shit up on the wiki too, and probably cause you are dodge rolling so goddamn much, just walk out of the way of the bullets dipshit

Attached: fuckingdead.png (79x90, 20K)

And then I got a composite gun as well and killed Lich for the first time (2nd try on him). Hilarious phase 2, saw almost no bullets. Gold Ammolet is pretty damn strong if you got synergies with it.

Attached: Untitled.png (1443x924, 78K)

>Drill in the first floor shop for 30 shells
Signs you'll be having a god run

>people complaining about getting shit items not knowing they have to unlock them over time
are people actually this fucking stupid? its a roguelike, you unlock shit overtime dumbass

Attached: ohgodohfuck.png (226x189, 29K)

I completed the game 100% when it came out. Didn't play this or the last update yet. Give me a quick recap on what I missed, please?

It usually does, secret rooms are much more likely to appear either attached to shops or treasure rooms. Sometimes they don’t, but it’s a bit more rare.

youtube.com/watch?v=RsCgzyrXgFI
take this user

>roguelike
*roguelite

d'oh.

Attached: jhgtf.jpg (248x250, 60K)

Do you have to beat the lich/ get lead god to unlock rainbow mode? I've done everything before this update and rainbow mode is basically lead god every time.

Hard, but fair (99% of the time).

A game i wasnt expecting to enjoy it as much as i did, i already have the platinum trophy, but i just keep going back to it again and again, its so good. I wish the boss DPS cap was changed to maybe 100 flat damage +20% of the weapon's damage after that. I get that they want to limit how much damage you do, but there should be a point to gaining more damage

unlock it from the npc rooms, the ones with the yellow lock and yellow key, he'll eventually pop up

Attached: he sees.png (116x177, 46K)

>After countless hours of playtime
>Finally git gud
>Can consistently win 9/10 times
>Can usually perfect a boss 6/10 times
>Always get hit 5-6 times by fucking Ammoconda

Why is he so difficult bros?

im bad at this game makes me sad

nah it got him already, i'm just wondering if there was any prerequisite before he shows up. He shouldn't really show up before a lich kill desu seeing as how easy it makes the game

i think he either comes after killing a past or killing dragun

Attached: baby.png (295x330, 230K)

>can go to ten (10) floors on a single run
the new floor stinks a bit though, quite funny at least

>Owl
>Payday mask with the guy that blanks
>Elder blank
>gold ammolet
>nuke rooms the instant a bullet comes close

Attached: 1554777049817.jpg (1024x684, 69K)

better than not using all those enemies, still wish that we got some different ones, like wild west

Hallownest pantheon broke me. I planned on getting the platinum, i have all other trophies, but the pantheon of Hallownest is just above my level. I know my limits

Im not digging the new R&G department a whole lot, I get it's a big pun on rng but at the same time it wouldn't have killed to make it more worthwhile than a piss easy boss that gives a bit extra loot. A few chests or secret rooms like in the 2nd secret floor where there's always that blue guy with the free chest would've been great to have there

Attached: 1551965537396.png (256x443, 103K)

>jammed lich

Attached: aaaaa.png (179x217, 72K)

Its ok user, judging by the comments here, a lot of people struggle with it. Keep at it though, it took me maybe 50+ deaths to eventually win, and now i barely ever lose. The gud flows like wine

Don't give up man, you two can do it. If you focus and don't choke the only difficult bosses are the RNG ones. Especially the god damn Xero into Zote. And once you master NKG and Pure Vessel you're great. AR also very difficult. Fuck that pantehon honestly, it's fucking 50 minutes for a go against the real bosses. Xero, Zote, NKG, PV and AR

>it was at this moment that he knew
>he fucked up

Attached: 20190408201907_1.jpg (1920x1080, 347K)

I've started playing it recently, probably put about 10 hours or so into it, but there are a couple of things that annoy me. Your gun doesn't actually shoot exactly where your reticle is, which seems really stupid in a bullet hell/twin stick game. Also, because of the weird not-quite-top-down perspective, I still haven't gotten down where exactly my hitbox is, which is really annoying for some of the patterns.

>spend half an hour combing a level for secrets and chest rooms
>get hit once during the boss fight
>quit for a week
This game makes me too angry.

>letting your curse get that high without Silver or Cursed bullets

Attached: 1425277183302.gif (598x296, 924K)

I´m confused, I beat this game with my friend on sitting, it had 5 floors. Is this game suppose to have longevity? I mean we could play it again to see more guns, but there is no real point since there is nothing to kill. I know that there are different bosses, by there is like 3 on each floor only and they go down in a minute or so.

What about the purpose of the Gungeoneers? Remember why they're there? They want to kill the past.. Right? Do that. Go to wiki if you're too confused.

The core gameplay is so fucking boring and discourages you from enjoying yourself so it's "hard". Imagine playing a game with tons of weapon pickups but you can barely use them.

but you can use the pickups user, what's stopping you?

Is this your first time playing a Rogue-like/lite?

Imagine being so bad at a game, you shitpost about it to try and turn off others
It's almost like I'm on Yea Forums

>you are

Attached: dfghjkl;'.png (253x165, 119K)

Attached: 1467777417916.gif (294x233, 1.29M)

>3 cape bullet kin
>ive killed 2
>fuck it.clip
>cheat 2 red capes in
it aint fair man, call me a pussy

Attached: DbJjoM_WsAApgGw.jpg (1024x682, 89K)

That is like one extra stage on each character? But the steps seems pretty fucking annoying to do just to get one more stage.
Of course not, but I never beat a rouge-like with just three runs. I might have lucked out on the guns, but I expected more floors. Short runs in these games usually means you dying a lot, not that you beat them fast. Fuck me I guess, different expectation, I just like having a challenge and long games than replaying old stages I have already beat.

You gain access to the 6th chamber after you've cleared everyone's past.

There are also in-between floors that are all accessed through various secrets.

What, are you asking for a Nuclear Throne style looping system or something?

The game actually has 10 floors. 4 of them are secrets found within a run while one is unlocked after clearing everyone's past.

I did enjoy Nuclear Throne more. Also that one with the knight in a castle.

This
hampering your enjoyment in a single player game where the goal is to get grossly OP is a cardinal sin of game development, especially so considering all the other shit gungeon throws at you. It doesn't make the game any better at all and just serves to fellate the developer. Looking at you Ed McDonalds, you fat sack of shit
This is why game like Risk of Rain and Nuclear Throne are just plain better.

I wanted to like the but its just too slow for me which made learning a chore

>more often than not an ammo box will spawn on the first floor before even finding a gun that actually uses ammo, which I have to let the designated anti-fun mechanic steal
>pre-dragun fight roughly half of my weapons are empty and a quarter are nearly depleted

>dude quit complaining about ammo! you'll get it if you just use your guns! conserving ammo is for retards!

Attached: 1554872915018.jpg (367x446, 41K)

It's a problem with trying to blend these genres. You don't want a boss in a bullet hell shmup to die before you're even challenged by their attack patterns, but a lot of the fun in roguelite games comes from being massively overpowered and trivializing boss fights or other challenges.

This but only first floor bosses for me. Been playing for a while, just trying to unlock last few items and more importantly get a decent run AND a fucking cosmic rift so i can beat lich and unlock the new characters, but man does it rustle my jimmies to get nicked by a bullet on floor 1 bosses
>bullet king
>gull with no pillars
Fuck me.

Even Ikaruga bosses rarely take over 2 minutes to beat, even if you're shit at the game. Gungeon feels like its authors loved the smell of their own farts too much.

It's got that "le balanced esports no fun allowed" -vibe to it, yeah.

i wanna kill the kamilia

not him, but gungeon honestly isn't that hard at all. like, it's just babymode touhou or any shmup. doesn't mean it's not fun, but it's just not actually hard in most scenarios

I think a good solution would be to take a little more influence from shmups and give the bosses more attack phases with less health dividing them up. It does get a little boring when the boss only fires the same 4 or so patterns across the entire fight with MAYBE a change when they get really low.

let's be honest, with you idiots having trouble even getting to floor 5 there's no way you could play on turbo. the game isn't "slow", it's just a convenient scapegoat for your brain damage

>hampering your enjoyment in a single player game where the goal is to get grossly OP is a cardinal sin of game development
games are supposed to be challenging

You implying people even get good guns to begin with.

Not either one of those anons but funny thing is I found myself playing better on Turbo. I was taking damage in random rooms earlier because I got bored all the time and started doing dumb risky things to make it more fun. On Turbo I actually had to pay attention and not sabotage my own play to make it interesting so I actually ended up taking less damage overall in most cases.

runs can take over an hour if you go to a few secret floors, which you're encouraged to do since they help you win so much
i love the game but it's not fast paced

>games are supposed to be challenging
games are also supposed to be for letting loose, so what's the point in saying "no you can't play like that. stop doing so well"?
games can be challenging and allow for occasional trivialization at the same time you know, ergo my two examples
not only that, but there's not even that big off a payoff in gungeon. you never get to blow your load at any point in the game. it's all just a series of "challenges" that pay you in being able to do the same challenges again with a few more tools

It's Rouge the difficulty comes from rng

half of these things are flat out wrong and the other half is just your bad opinion

Nuclear Throne is Turbo Gungeon by default, which also happens to be more fair and more fun than gungeon
The reason people bitch about gungeon so much is because it's dogshit when it could easily not be dogshit

Gungeon isn't really challenging though. Its just a test of patience and endurance. The game itself is actually fairly simple, but everything is a bullet sponge, so you need to do it for longer.

In my opinion its the worst kind of "hard"

My biggest complaint about this gameis secret rooms not having any kind of hint, it is terribly painful trying to shoot every wall. It should have been like isaac with defining rules to spawn. It was still random, and didn't mean you find it every time

Hello mr Gungeon dev

People don't call couches davenports
People don't call wallets billfolds
Words evolve
Meanings shift
Welcome to the future old man

>Its just a test of patience and endurance
sounds like a challenge to me
what do you expect exactly
you learn the enemy patterns and get good at doging them
isn't that the point of bullet hell games?

>games are also supposed to be for letting loose
there's many other games with pretty pictures and nice sound effects that will never make you lose and hurt your feelings

Secrets aren't very important, they aren't worth shooting every wall to find, you're overvaluing them
Look in chest rooms or the shop, they're the most common places secrets appear

>People don't call couches davenports
>People don't call wallets billfolds
i do starting from now

>isn't that the point of bullet hell games?
The point of bullet hell games is the fact bosses have myriad of changing patterns that depend on their HP and state instead of static 3-4 attacks that repeat for the entire 5 minute long slot of a battle.

Won't shooting the shop be a real bad idea

Seeing as Gungeon has 15x the players of NT, I dare say you're wrong.
NT feels like a poor man's flash game. Also the creator is a gigantic faggot sucking chinese cock.
>inb4 popular=good when that argument is irrelevant within indie games

I feel like shit after reading all these replies in a EtG thread. After dozens of hours and 100+ death I still couldn't see a single ending, I reached floor 5th once. Meanwhile all of you talk about endings, defeating some true boss to get the best ending fucking frutrates me, like i played hundreds of games and finished most of them without and major problem but EtG just fucked me. (same went with Furi, couldnt even defeat the 1st boss after the tutorial even on fucking easy mode)
Maybe bullethells are not for me. Maybe I will reinstall and try again

You kill most Gungeon bosses in 2-3 cycles

You can fire a few shots before the shopkeeper gets mad, or you can just blank straight up after you've checked everywhere else

Two questions, lads
Should I buy this game now or wait for a sale if I enjoy rougelites?
Can you mix and match guns to make synergies?

Yeah and each of those cycles is a minute+ because of shit pacing of the game and DPS caps
Try any real bullet hell for a change nigger

Nice, saved me a purchase.

They do have a hint. Secret rooms are never behind environment props, they're always behind naked walls. They also can't spawn in places rooms can't generate a normal pathway.
Really, every time I beat the floor boss and just open up the map, and see a couple possible spots for the secret room to spawn. It takes me 30 seconds to check all of them.

WHAT!
I've been playing so long without this knowlege...

>half of these things are flat out wrong and the other half is just your bad opinion
let's see about that
>DPS caps for already boring bullet sponge bosses
fact
>Abundance of shitty RNG for gun drops because of limited tiered chest system you can't even always open up because keys are limited
fact
>Mostly uninteresting synergies, boring gun and ability design
subjective
>No ability to randomize the starting loadout Dead Cells style so you're forced to choose between multiple painfully boring starters
fact, though subjective whether that's good or bad
>Secret rooms that give no hints about their whereabouts forcing you to just shoot all the walls in treasure rooms
fact, outside of a single item
>Enemy HP scaling with each level
fact
>Retarded unlocking methods for characters
subjective
>Awful fucking music and low pacing of an already slow as shit game
subjective, though in comparison to other games of its kind it is in fact slower paced
>Wall mimics that give literally no reward for defeating them
only false statement. wall mimics will rarely drop guns

5 facts, 4 opinions, one false. doesn't line up with your post m8

More like 20 seconds

>sounds like a challenge to me
If bulletsponges are a challenge to you then sure? To me, its just more of the same thing. If a enemy isn't threatening, its not any more threatening if it has 500 Health or 1. It just takes longer to kill and is frankly boring as fuck tryin to kill it when it poses no threat.

Bullethell games actually understand this, and its why most enemies die really easy. Also, bullethell games have powerups and the like to break up the monotony of their fights ontop of throwing different configurations and patterns at you.

I felt the same at release and actually had to resort to cheating just to get one ending. I easily had over 50 hours before I gave up and resorted to downloading a trainer.
Maybe things are better after all the updates and you get more than a peashooter as your first gun and an uzi as your second.

>Gungeon has 15x the players of NT, I dare say you're wrong.
>that argument is irrelevant within indie games
you just defeated your own argument you stupid shill. holy shit

Your fucked up perception of time is your problem alone

>Can you mix and match guns to make synergies?
Yes, many guns and items have synergies with one another.

DPS cap is an extremely convenient scapegoat for you to point at, isn't it? But the reality of the situation is you've probably never even hit it. IF you hit the dps cap with a broken build every boss in the game dies in ~15 seconds.
Complaining that the devs force you to actually fight a boss properly for 15 seconds instead of insta-deleting it like you can do in Isaac in 90% of runs is just pathetic.

this nigga is certified

Is there any reason to beat the old king now? Retardly difficult boss/floor for literally 0 rewards. The rat might be hard but at least gives you a shitton of good garbage

if a game is slower paced it doesn't necessarily mean it's less challenging
I think we need to break out the facts vs opinions quiz

Are you retarded?
Nevermind, redundant question.

> I die in the first floor, mostly because I don't get good items
I refuse to believe anyone is this bad at games, if you play literally anyone except pilot you should be fine with starting weapons for first boss.

I don't remember having a run where I had a shitty gun for more than the first floor, and it IS simple enough to beat the first boss with your starting gun.

I suppose for newer or less skilled players it's boring as hell to end up stuck like that for the first floor, though.

>IF you hit the dps cap with a broken build every boss in the game dies in ~15 seconds.
Does that mean i'm spared of the boredom of wasting another 3-5 minutes on the fucking Trigger Twins with their moveset consisting of 3 moves yet again?
Fucking hell, this sounds amazing, user.

So if I made it so a Goomba in Mario took 20 hits to kill vs 1, that'd make it a super challenging enemy to kill?

>No ability to randomize the starting loadout Dead Cells style so you're forced to choose between multiple painfully boring starters
>fact, though subjective whether that's good or bad
no you stupid moron. there literally is a character in the game that starts with random items.
I won't waste time replying to the rest of your diarrhea as you obviously have zero clue what youre talking about.

oh no how scathing
watch this
Fortnite has 15x the players of any given game. Would you agree it's dogshit regardless?
You don't need to answer that, because if you say anything but yes, then you forfeit any credibility you may have.

I thought you meant phase instead of cycle, are you seriously complaining that a boss fight takes more than a minute? do you just want to walk in the door and kill it before it can react with your sick synergies you 'earned' through random loot drops?

What are some of your 'fuck yes' guns? If I get the Megahand or Mass Shotgun that's basically a completed run at that point.

As i said, play in the fucking bullet hells first before opening your mouth.

If Gungeon bosses had less health, you'd win before you even saw all their attacks, they'd be too easy

>gives you 2 random items and his floor has 3 chests, one of which is always open
>0 rewards
seriously, do you fuckers even play the game

It's not a bullet hell game though is it? Why are you comparing it to something it isn't even trying to be?

You get a free synergy chest for beating him too no?

You need to go back to elementary school and ask the teacher there to teach you reading comprehension, user.

All the optional floors are stupid, they either mostly pointless or the break the balance of the game by giving you overpowered loot

>all their attacks
All 3-4 of them?
You see them in first 30 seconds of the battle, some rare second stages notwithstanding

Is it just me or did the new update make the game easier? I'm still pretty bad at the game but before the update I've only ever beaten the dragun like five times. I picked it up again after the update and I literally beat him four times in the first three hours of playing. One time I unlocked some kind of beam cannon with infinite ammo that killed everything on screen after a few seconds. Is it just me?

Did dropping the DPS cap really make that big of a difference?

Most bosses on;y have like four attacks to begin with. Not to mention its always possible to do multi-stage fights, and the whole argument of them dieing too fast is only valid with a good build/guns. Which you wouldn't have always nor even most of the time.

im a retard and I beat furi on normal and loved it. give it another try I loved that game

Maybe you should check the reply chain

>claim gungeon is better because it's more popular
>backpedal when you realize how stupid you made yourself sound
don't miss the shortbus, opie

With an average loadout you will kill a boss in 2-3 cycles like I said before. If you have a good loadout you will kill it in 1. That seems fairly balanced to me

It's easier, it gives you better loot, more money and more keys. DPS cap doesn't even apply most of the time

You're wrong. It's not balanced unless I can insta-delete the boss as soon as I enter the room.
Having to dodge is artificial difficulty and bad game design.

Not sure what the hell you mean by cycles, but frankly it takes way too long without a good loadout considering the amount of attacks the bosses actually have.

Gungeon bosses take over 3 minutes on average unless you get good items and given their primitive repetitive movesets there's no reason for them to take that long.
At the very least look at the way Dead Cells did it with multiple phases to everything and constantly changing movesets.

I disliked Gungeon and Nuclear Throne for the same reasons. It's usually just a clusterfuck of shots coming at you and unless you're deep into the game and have a ton of health upgrades you usually get fucked.

BoI is the superior game of the genre.

The time it takes for a boss to run through all it's attacks. Although it doesn't really apply in this case because it's random and not a 'cycle' so bad choice of wording. Basically you are going to see each attack pattern 2-3 times before you kill the boss. It's true it takes ages when you have a shit gun, but most of the you don't, especially with the patches

This. Its even worse when you've got the patterns down and just have to dance around the attacks for those 3 minutes because you didn't get a really good set up. So you're just slowly whittling down a boss while they can do absolutely nothing to you for three minutes per boss every damn run.

>Gungeon bosses take over 3 minutes on average
no they dont. even just the starter gun with no passives will kill faster than that

Attached: 1543868882475.jpg (555x563, 47K)

>it's "the first floor only has 2 brown chest with shit in them" episode

Attached: 1549485611330.png (296x367, 168K)

"All bosses" aren't just the first tier bosses, retard, though even those usually unnecessary crawl to 2+ minutes given how shitty and repetitive their moveset is.

>this can happen
Seriously?

I started playing this game a few days ago and my fav characters are rogue and convict, but would like to try a new one, any tips on how to unlock it? don't spoil it completely I guess

first floor bosses are the only bosses that take a long time because you might not have a decent gun

The game is so full of garbage RNG it's entirely possible to get an entire arsenal of shit.

not anymore, they made the game alot easier

Yea Forums is too casual for gungeon just like it was too casual for Sekiro

Attached: 1445995343904.jpg (640x634, 81K)

the only complaint I have about this game is that it takes very fucking long to unlock anything more interesting

>increased the dps cap on bosses
Finally I can play this shitty game and have fun

Reminder to immediately eat the Meat Bun the moment you acquire it.

But I did beat Sekiro, I reckon I've done harder things than playing Gungeon, it's just that the game is not very satisfying and rather tedious at times.

Rolling a dumb barrel of water around the ground all the way to the chimney to access the hidden dungeon isn't fun, it's pretty boring and tedious, as is needing two keys to go through it, yes the game is harder if you save those keys, it is also way more boring.

And this kind of pattern repeats itself all over the freaking game, nonstop, it's a game that could be fixed and fun with some tweaks here and there and I reckon that if mods were widely available for it, it would be far better, but that's just not the case and the game ends up being a mediocre thing with a lot of potential

dont visit the secret floors like a casual

zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Attached: file.png (1598x314, 25K)

>Rolling a dumb barrel of water around the ground all the way to the chimney to access the hidden dungeon isn't fun, it's pretty boring and tedious
you do realize the room with the chimney is guaranteed to spawn a water barrel in it right?

Hard. People just get mad cause you can't reset to brim/ipecac like BoI.
Bosses have reasonable health aside from old iron king, fuck him.
Weapons are fine, I only start getting scared if I hit floor 4 with nothing good.
Rainbow mode is cool but not a free win without gunther/clone, because there's a very real risk you'll run out of ammo
Still can't get gunslinger. I'll try again tomorrow

Attached: 1500864561241.gif (240x160, 99K)

Not that guy, but even when it spawns in the room you still have to roll it into the chimney. His point seemed to be that theres a lot of tedious gameplay elements in the game. On their own, they'd be fine. But in a game built around repetition it gets annoying fast.

it literally takes 10 seconds just how petty do you have to be

How hard can someone possibly miss the point? I literally even spelled it out for you.

Anyone?
All i get is the steam version over and over.

Stop going down into the oubliette then.
And stop playing pilot. That goes for everyone here, pilot is just torturing yourself for advantages you don't need if you're good

It's easy as in, it's in the easy side of the "hard games" spectrum, kinda like cuphead, it's not a really hard game but since it reached the casual playerbase that it's not used to these kind of games, it's the hardest thing in the world for them, Dark souls also suffers from this.
Watch any Touhou lunatic run or Ikaruga max difficulty and you'll see what hard is.

>open both
>both shit items no guns
>so you cant check for secret rooms
>money already wasted on 2 keys
>reset

>save keys
>kill first floor boss easily because I don't play bad characters
>open green chests on next floor
Was that really so hard?

try playing a game against other humans

>he considers playing with the samey shit starting guns every time a fun way to spend the time
Gungeon is like an autism magnet

> it's not a really hard game but since it reached the casual playerbase that it's not used to these kind of games, it's the hardest thing in the world for them,

I've been trying to put my finger on why stuff like this isn't hard to me, and I think you've finally managed to sum it up properly. This is especially evident with Dark Souls.

>do the drone work and pretend you have fun
video games fuck yeah

There is no point. You're just being extremely petty for no reason at all.
Provide an alternative to the current solution. Not something retarded like "have the fire extinguish itself when you walk up to it".

I'm not the one who can't manage resources to save their life
It's only not fun if you play pilot. He's the real autism magnet

pilot has the most fun past though

>You can take design elements from roguelikes and apply them to different genres of games and then you have roguelike-likes (aka roguelites), but roguelikes are a specific kind of game that goes beyond just having randomized levels and permadeath.
The problem that I have with this argument, is that genres don't apply to games inside a fucking vacuum. Ocarina of Time isn't just an adventure game, or just an action game. It's both. A game can have multiple genres without appealing to 100% of the tropes that apply to them. Spelunky is absolutely a roguelike-platformer, just as Gungeon and Isaac are absolutely roguelike-shooters.

Fuck you, and fuck your retarded, nonsensical philosophy.

>both shit items no guns
why do you casuals insist on lying every post? every floor's chests are literally, LITERALLY guaranteed to have a gun in one of them
seriously, go fuck yourselves. I fucking hate Yea Forumseddit. This shit is why every other board laughs at us.

Attached: 1508807370655.jpg (700x535, 102K)

A switch? Clear blank? Kill a specific enemy in the map somewhere? Opens up after the boss is defeated? Just shooting it? The fire doesn't hurt you?

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. Also, you're hyper focused on one example, and still missing the point by a fucking mile.

I want to know why you're going into the oubliette every single run when it's not worth it half the time

high dragun
atleast its only on second floor so just spam elevator shortcut

I didn't know it could only spawn on the second floor. That's a load off my mind

I want to know how you're this reading challenged and still able to type.

>autists complaining it's not as hard as Touhou
>autists complaining it's not as easy as BoI
it's like this game managed to pick the sweet spot where it would make everyone angry

>Also, you're hyper focused on one example, and still missing the point by a fucking mile.
There is no point but just your imagination unless you can provide more than 1 example.
I already explained your "issue" is retardedly petty and makes it clear to me you're just looking for straws to grasp at because you want to hate the game.

God Tier
Gunslinger
Bullet

High Tier
Paradox
Robot
Marine
Pilot

Mid Tier
Huntress

Trash Tier
Convict

My specific point is that going down into the oubliette is a waste of time, so obsessively rolling the water barrel is also a waste of time. You're just torturing yourself for no good reason

Just cause your dumb ass can't comprehend it when its stated in plain text, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its also pretty clear you're retarded since I'm not even the none who used it as an example, just explained what he was saying. Yet your dumb ass couldn't even understand -that-.

It doesn't matter who originally said it, you condoned it. That makes you just as retarded as him.
Just fuck off to your pretentious garbage games like NT or Isaac and stop shitposting here.

This is 90% of the game, why do people call it difficult?

Attached: GUN.webm (1920x1080, 2.43M)

It's pretty cool. I've always had a soft spot for marine's past though
>You're a hero!

Good lord, your idiocy is impressive. How on earth do you function?

Actually Oubliette is a good place to go to if you have a good gun and a couple of spare keys.
It's easy, and you're not forced to go to the Keep and Old King after. In the end, you come out with more resources.

>NT
>Pretentious

Shut up before you look even more retarded. I prefer gungeon over NT but NT is anything but that

Unlike you I'm not a spastic ADHD tardling and can bear 10 seconds doing something, so pretty well.

>NT and Isaac pretentious garbage
>As if Gungeon of all things is any better
You accuse that dude of searching for things to hate, but you're just blindly defending the game with stupid shit like that

I can't even beat the Twins, how do I summon

I play most MOBAs and I played PVP WoW competitively, it's not necessarily harder, it's just the the skill cap is unlimited, but most insanely hard single player games are so hard only a few people through talent or sheer autism are able to beat it at max difficulty, and none of them is able to do a perfect run, so there's always room to get better.

Every update I reinstall to see if they've made the game fun and every time I'm invariably disappointed
Just play Nuclear Throne

It's a good place to go, but it's yet another floor, and it's two keys down the drain for what may be two blue chests you can't even open. The only thing you'll consistently come out ahead on is money.
You don't go down there every single time, you go when you feel like it and when you have the resources to make it worth it. If you're legitimately burned out over rolling a fucking barrel then you're going down there way too many times. And if you're dependent on scraping together every resource you can then you're just shit

pretty sure games are supposed to be fun, user.

ive never seen an 'insanely hard single player game' that wasnt easy once you put in the hours to practise
the game doesnt adapt to you like a human opponent

nope, get out casual

I'm a different user, I was just replying to your post that Oubliette isn't worth it.

In no bullet hell game you kill the bosses quickly, so complaining about that means that you are major retards since you apparently can't grasp the point of making the bosses use these kind of attacks.

And EtG is piss easy after the synergy update. Before that it was somewhat challenging but not really that hard compared to actual danmaku shmups.

And yet you can't spare 10 seconds to comprehend what a post says. I guess it only counts when theres no thinking involved for ya, huh?

Was going to reply with this. Thanks.

Bullet King is ez pez for me, same with Gatling Gull, who fucks me up the most is the Trigger Twins, I can barely kill one

Yeah, I gathered. It is worth it on some runs, but it's both a risk and a really stupid idea half the time. People piss away their keys and money to get in then die by floor 3 because they have no guns.

After you stop being shit at the first two floors you should always go for the Oubliette, specially since they have buffed the Old King's rewards..

Oubliette is only worth it if you have a really good start

Any hard shmup game is pretty much impossible to fully adapt to, there's always room for improving your score or fixing mistakes, and you also have literally hundreds of games to play and master.
And human interaction also depends on the game skill ceiling, card games like hearthstone dont require any skill whatsoever, so there's a limit to how much you can outplay an opponent.
You could argue that fighting games, RTS and to some extend mobas are very dependent on player skill, but many single player games require way more mechanical skill.

guys i just had 3 terrible runs
no ammo and no guns

Attached: 1533717006423.png (900x900, 940K)

That's why I said it was a good idea if you got a good gun. In the end, you have more chances for more guns with more synergies to make your run more fun

Of course, half the time you won't have the keys necessary to really utilise it.

>Any hard shmup game is pretty much impossible to fully adapt to
how? it's literally muscle memory

I don't always go for the oubliette because I'm not shit. Obsessively scraping together resources is what you do when you're not confident you can win just playing the game. I only go down there to make a good run better.
This goes back to resource management and how some people cannot into it You might know that it's not worth it, but most people complaining don't realise that and blame the game for fucking them

It's not about hoarding resources but going through all the floors, which is what any self-respecting player should do.

I just found out recently of a terrible hidden mechanic that limits good gun drops. DPS on bosses is one thing but this is just bullshit enterthegungeon.gamepedia.com/Quality#Magnificence

you are only gimping yourself with scatter shot if you suck, have no balls, or are stuck with absolutely dogshit weapons like the unfinished gun

So no real reason then