Change it back: "XD le Discount Sniper" edition

Bad projection. I guess you're just another salty nerd that couldnt stand being dominated by the gun. Maybe next we can nerf "facestabs" for you, your majesty.

Al dente pasta

>No Mad Milk
Why?
As for exclaiming others would be useless, maybe but the point I'm making is he needs more options then just the one he has which is very situational. Do you have any ideas yourself?

Scout already has it and it considerably broken. Just "buffing" a character by giving it a broken option isnt balanced

what happen
havent played tf2 since 2015

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I agree Scout shouldn't have it but it's a debuff/utility item I feel would be a better fit for Spy.

Rework it so Scout no longer can equip it and give it the Gas Passer function where you have to deal damage to raise the meter.

no

Yes I do.
>Buff all revolvers 150% ramp up damage by 10 or 15 damage, keep all other values the same
>on successful backstab, make cloaking time cut in half or be instantaneous
>have backstabs on ubered targets drain the uber meter
>have the disguise able to consistently fake shoot and reload; fix all current disguise bugs
>increase MS to slightly above Medic Speed
>new watch idea: watch that allows you to phase through an enemy or enemy object at the cost of 25% cloak per phase
Main idea of the watch is to get past a choke or an engie abusing the dispenser staircase glitch.

With your watch idea, would it be no invis, only phase, or phase while invis?
I think the former would work better.

Change it back

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>He's making fun of me so he's very clearly projecting over something that hasn't been possible for years

No I enjoy watching retards jump from the stairs with their edgy loadouts so ready for their epic face stab just to end up dying instantly. I like free kills.

Disguising is mostly useless against anyone even a little bit competent because it doesn't cost anything to spy check, so there is no point in using it over the cloak. The disguise system needs to provide more cover, let me fake shots or aiming to better imitate a sniper or heavy, disguise my voice as the person I'm impersonating so it's actually possible to get healed by a medic that isn't braindead. Throwing off your disguise should extinguish you and remove any debuffs that have been thrown at you.

At the same time the rate you can disguise yourself should be limited by either an ammo system or a recharge time.

A salty Tf2 Balance Team member got sick and tired of getting dominated by the Ambassador. So he/she decided to nerf it out of the blue by removing the 102 per headshot at any range and making the damage fall off based on range.
It was originally going to be an RNG nerf, having the first shot have the potential to miss but the dev team saw their salt was too obvious there.

No one pushed for this nerf before or complained about the gun but after the nerf, we got a bunch of redditors and Dane worshippers swearing that they always thought the Amby was OP or a "Discount Sniper"
tl;dr retarded nerf, even more retarded PubDrones

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>seething shitters who can't get backstabs
LOL!

backstab it

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Invis plus phase.

Okay so let's buff the DR then, that's what attracts le Paladdin fanboys edge lords. The amby didnt.

The ultimate salt mine.

The ultimate salt mine.

Post the machina and you have the trifecta of bad sniper mains

Disguise is pretty useless but at least you can abuse the hurtboxes on it. Namely Scout's.
Also, your voice IS disguised.

>disguise my voice as the person I'm impersonating
Why are whiny spies always the biggest fucking scrubs? Play for more than 2 hours before thinking you're le balanceman pro.

What medic sees in the chat
>BluScout: Medic!
>BlueHeavy: Doctor, this way!
RedSpy: Medic!
>BlueEngy: Doc!

>abuse the hurtboxes on it. Namely Scout's.
Is that the reason people are always disguising as scout? I thought they were just painfully bad or to lazy to press any disguise beyond 1-1. Scouts is the most obvious disguise.

No not really, a spy main will pat themselves on the back if they don't use the deadringer, everyone over thinks it but it's really just a side grade to the invisiwatch

Did I miss another retarded patch?
It disguises in chat as well. I play medic alot too. So I'd know when I got duped.

Spy mains overthink shit and think the smaller box is worth being a walking target (it isn't).

Yes. Like you said, disguises are useless. Might as well go with the one that doesnt inhibit your speed and has a hurtbox you can abuse.
It throws off snipers at the least and the view model is better for hiding around corners

The speed buff is unironically even stronger than what it was originally.

Yeah but there is a difference between using a disguise that becomes useless the moment anyone spy checks you and a disguise that is just straight up useless and reveals you instantly to anyone with 2 braincells

Everyone spy checks constantly. Even more so in pubs. The only thing your disguise is fooling is a sentry. So again.
Generally you're going to go scout to not be noticed due to the smaller viewmodel. Not to blend in. "Not being noticed" basically means someone forgot to spy check, and it that case any disguise would work, and again, scout would be the best choice because of the speed you keep.

I love dumb fucking retards that only use the scout disguise, I don't even need to bother spychecking, he does it for me.

>Throwing off your disguise should extinguish you and remove any debuffs that have been thrown at you.
another dead ringer to abuse, oh yes that's exactly what spy needs

Spy is noticeably slower than scout. Any time I see a slow scout it immediately calls to me that he's a spy and I proceed to kill him.

>Pyro has been getting ruined from day one of the game's existence because he kills you if he gets in
>when he has a shitload of hard counters, and had even more before airblast
>being a "good" pyro is now seen as being a useless trickshot gimmick support class and not fucking getting in and burning people

valve should've just told the playerbase to suck it the fuck up 2bh

>>Pyro has been getting ruined from day one of the game's existence because he kills you if he gets in
Except he got a fuckload of buffs since release, Degreaser Pyro was peak Pyro but sadly they fucked that up.

Yes. Again. Its not fooling anyone.
You want to go in as quick as possible for the kill, not to fool anyone.
You're playing to be unseen the whole time, so going scout to keep your speed and have a smaller viewmodel is a smart choice.
At max in a lobby, you can spam scout disguise to condition the enemy then randomly go in as a Sniper Pyro, or Soldier disguise to try and blend in.
In pubs, you're 100% better off going scout disguise because everything is shot constantly.

I'm saying that disguising as scout draws extra attention to yourself, because a slow scout is extremely obvious. It literally draws extra attention to you.

The new YER is actually way fucking worse. If you don't use it with the Le'Tranger you're gimping the living fuck out of yourself and I hate it.

KYS even if I know this post is ironic

>seething shitter who doesn't understand how getting rid of the ceiling of a class is piss-poor gameplay design
Retard.

I know, and I'm pointing out every disguise will do that. You want to be unseen 100% of the time if you're playing Spy properly. And the Scout, due to the viewmodel, helps you achieve that goal.
In a lobby you can viably switch off to another disguise after conditioning the enemy.
But in a pub, no matter who you are, you're getting shot regardless because pubshitters have m1 glued down. So staying out of sight is the best option

degreaser pyro sucked ass and was the absolute worst. What exactly do you think I meant by "gimmick trickshot support class?"

Fuck the axtinghisher, fuck midair flare gun crits. When I want to play Pyro, I want to get in with my close range death machine and make people panic with my sheer DPS and afterburn. I want to be a train in CQC balanced by the fact that I can do little out of it, but people have cried so hard about dying to pyro in cqc that he's not even great at that.

Pyro's gotten some QoL improvements, like airblast, they finally made his flamethrower something approaching consistent, they briefly made it completely broken, they even added what was conceptually my favorite flamethrower in the game, the DF.

Until they caved to casuals again and made it really weird and inconsistent. Flamethrower damage has slowly been getting nerfed harder and harder since release.

>biting the obvious bait
Why?
Dont acknowledge retards and they go away on their own.

Flamethrower damage has a consistent history of being bugged. They should increase its damage but reduce its range.
Also they should grant pyro better movement options instead of weapons that are "guarenteed" kill weapons like the flare gun or Axtinguisher.
Detonator jump buff would be cool. But I'm a Spy main so I'm not super into Pyro tech

he's right, you're retarded.

>degreaser pyro sucked ass and was the absolute worst
I played Pyro competitively and I can tell you it was the only weapon worth a shit, it gave him the unique edge of being by far the best character at juggling weapons and could make short work of pretty much anything with the usual combos.
You can argue that Pyro was "about" burning shit but the comboing was more interesting and viable from a gameplay niche perspective.

>they finally made his flamethrower something approaching consistent
The fire has always been consistent, I haven't played much since they changed it but it was fine before, what threw people off is that it needed a lot more leading your target than it looked like.

It wasn't bugged, you were just missing the target and the visuals didn't match up the actual hitboxes.

Yeah but if you're disguised as literally anything else, people at a distance wont know.
If I see some random "allied" demo away from the team I wont give him a second thought in the heat of a fight, but if I see a slow scout I'm gonna go out of my way to hunt him down and kill the obvious spy.

>sniper is deadly at every range between rifle, jarate+bushwaka combo, or, at highest skill level, instant quickscopes to shit on everything in the known universe that even has the audacity to try and kill him at a reasonable range
>on top of there are several maps with long sightlines typically played and enjoyed in both a casual and competitive setting
>on top of his playstyle being able to be effective while dry humping a sentry or behind combo, or any number of incredibly ballless, low risk high reward places
>spy has to bypass their entire team, hope the sniper doesn't hear the decloak/risk getting to sniper with a disguise, then backstab/two-three shot him while also potentially drawing the entire team onto him like a collection of angry bees
>how do we correct this design philosophy and make it to where sniper isn't objectively better at every scenario ever when it comes to selective target picks?
>let's increase the decloak noise and gut Ambassador
I'm happy with the damage decrease while cloaked and the move speed increase, but fuck me if the odds aren't really tipped to one side compared to the other.
Fuck sniper and everything he stands for btw. I keep wanting to play Heavy in games and there's always at least one faggot with an unusual sniping like a faggy faggot.

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"the visuals didn't line up and you had to lead more than it seemed but it was fine"
by definition this isn't fine, it's broken.

I don't mean it sucked ass as in it was bad, I mean that as in it was lame as fuck and not what the class was about at all. Pyro should honestly be about working to get in and W+M1 with the caveat that a lot of classes make him work hard to get in.

"the flamethrower class" avoiding his flamethrower is stupid.

>I don't want to play pyro that way so nobody can
Go fuck yourself, I loved to puff and sting.

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I love TF2 but it's obvious the devs didn't think things through.

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>by definition this isn't fine, it's broken.
The visuals were broken, not the hitbox or the damage.
And you didn't have to avoid using the flamethrower, you just had to learn its quirks and actually knowing how to use the fire would make you a far better player since the fire naturally had situations it was better in than comboing, the Degreaser gave the Pyro a lot of depth but now it feels complete garbage because of the inconsistent switch speeds.

I've been saying for years that sniper is less fun to fight than spies.
When a spy kills me I at least feel like he deserved it except trickstabbing cunts but with a sniper, getting the one hit kill is far too easy.

>i for one liked that the class' intended niche was overnerfed and butchered, leaving his only viable source of kills as a gimmicky combo mechanic!

I relished killing pubstomper puff n' sting pyros with the stock shotgun and flamethrower. Always with the same overblown sense of fashion, neon pink cosmetics.

Imagine if Scout's scattergun got nerfed into the dirt and everyone stsrted using sandman and the cleaver exclusively, that's what puff and sting felt like to me.

hot take: instead of turning pyro into a weird gimmick character that relies on specific unlockable secondaries to give him depth, maybe tune his primaries to make his intended role a bit more viable and interesting?

Again, while I sort of agree:
1. People spy check everything more often than not.
2. You aren't supposed to be seen in the first place

If you're disguising as a Demo or a non-medic or scout class, you're losing out on MS which can determine if you get the pick in time

A better player would know when to use combos and when to flame/shoot things, it was silly to limit yourself to one thing like newbies did.

That's fine but the "weird" gimmick was extremely interesting and unique and didn't need ruining, what's wrong with giving Pyro an interesting niche?

>get into TF2 as they're adding new weapons
>they start releasing sets, too
>spend every day daydreaming about all the cool things they could add
>updates start slowing down
>two years of nothing
>announce they're making four weapons
>takes another two years
>all those ideas you dreamed about never even came close to coming true
TF2 is a gold mine of personality and it's completely wasted by Valve's commie development style.

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>getting killed by a trickstab
Lmao. He deserves the kill then, literally no one outside of dedicated pubshitters fall for it anymore. People are even starting to predict the Teleporter jumpstab

>be on stairs
>spy appears
>jumps over me
>track him to shoot, still looking at him directly
>he backstabs me
Unironically, please tell me how to counter this, aside from "just don't use stairs lol"

dragon's fury was a great example of this, actually. With it, Pyro can actually be pyro, a terrifying close quarters champ, but he needs some semblance of accuracy to keep on target or he gets fucked and he has to be really careful about using airblast. It's still oksy, but the sweet spot mechanic they added makes it feel really inconsistent. I'd rather they just made the particle effect thinner and only used the width of the sweetspot rather than have this big area around it where you're doing pitiful damage.

I thought it stepped on the toes of Pyro's actual niche. I'm not sure how you could have pyro's flamethrower killing very quickly and still have the combo kills be worthwhile.

Bait him into jumping then simply walk backwards you fucking moron.

>the ceiling of a class involves playing the class in a way in which it was not designed to be played
>this is a good thing according to shitter who can't get any backstabs.
lol!

>I'm not sure how you could have pyro's flamethrower killing very quickly and still have the combo kills be worthwhile.
Just make the Degreaser like it used to be and make the damage a bit worse, it's actually already like that but they nerfed the damage, the airblast cost AND the switching which is top silly.

When I'm already on the stairs and he's just uncloaked/come around a corner ahead of me? Obviously I'm hammering the S key.

pretty much nothing, still waiting for a update

Just dont follow him and shoot him at the bottom of the stairs? Plus if you damage him(aside from a flamethrower) before he lands on you, he'll be knocked back as well.
Lmao

it required aim so i don't see the problem
spy already has a big enough skill gap to being able to play him

There was no problem
See: for why it was nerfed

Then you got backstabbed and not trickstabbed, the whole point is that a trickstab relies on a person knowing about your position and you're bad for having bad awareness and not knowing he was there.

tears collected:
[x] spy
[x] pyro
[x] scout
[ ] sniper

soon

>Machina didn't get nerfed
Keep that in mind

Honestly i could see where they were coming from in that it made spy's optimal play revolver centric rather than about backstabs

but there's so much about spy that makes the concept of getting behind people and backstabbing so flawed, like his super loud uncloak, him being nullified by unluckily turning around at the wrong time, half of his disguises being immediately sketchy at a glance, spychecking being risk free...

The last time a good spy gave me genuine trouble was in a game where teams alresdy weren't even and I simply couldn't focus on him and his advancing team at the same time, one or the other would always kill me and nobody else on the team could deal with it. Thst's what it took for spy to be a threat.

>we got a piss jar
>we got a fart taunt
>'entire team is babies' is a voiceline that has been in the game since launch
>BUT DIAPER COSMETICS ARE OVER THE LINE!!11!!!1!
what the eff
frickin fricks at valve hate literal free money

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>scout tears
why, because of sandman and the guillotine?

He still has his scattergun and a ridiculously good pistol, isn't that really all he needs?

Shortstop
Pocket Pistol
Chargin Targe
Tide Turner
Splendid Screen
Gunslinger
Pomson
Phlog
Axtinguisher
Degreaser
Righteous Bison
Huo Long Heater
Enforcer
Sydney Sleeper
Item set bonuses, especially the Saharan Spy set
Sticky Launcher

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imagine the smell

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