Why did horrible examples of game design become commonplace?

>Permanent missables in a 40+ hour long game
Criminal.

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HE HATES IT

why not just use a walkthrough?

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youtube.com/watch?v=OeLxUVACQF0

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hey, is that the first temple in ffX ?

metro 2033

literally every FPS between 2007 and 2014 (at least)

>leg cross

People like to feel capable of beating things blind.
I usually reserve walkthroughs for 100% only

>he missed one character of the al-behd translation in ffx

Yeah why not just let someone else play the $60 game you bought for you, brah.

Doom 2016 is guilty of this shit and it made me drop the game.

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How about this? Levels that are seemingly maz-y and possibly have cool shit if you explore but eventually discourage you from exploration as it's mostly a fucking waste of time.

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>buy sword because you're in desperate need of an upgrade
>sword you just bought is in the first chest at the start of the dungeon

Add in
>boring enemies to fight that respawn no matter how far in the game you are
and you've described System Shock 2

You can literally replay any level at any time

Remove the super cool loot and that's skyrim

Replaying a level and being able to explore a level and find all the loot are two different things.

DMC5 had a few of these.

All skyrim dungeons are just a circle that dumps you out at the entrance again. Which is another shit design because it means that all the dungeons are just the same fucking template and they all look the same and have nothing interesting going on in them. God skyrim was such a piece of shit game

Your pathing needed a few more loops.

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but if you missed something you can just replay the level. it's not like it locks you out of backtracking to a previous area so that you permanently miss something.

This is Dark Messiah.

At the end of the day every "dungeon" is trash if the game has shitty combat.

Some of the Dungeons dump you out in a different location, I think generally they are just repetitive. Just zombies and bug people all the time, same shit different area.

It's much better for the player to be able to explore the level and find the loot as they are playing the game, rather then being afraid and having to quit the level, restart an old level they already played, and do the same shit over again just for some loot.

The first keeps the player inside the circle of immersion with the game. Having them quit that circle and restart a level for loot is quite literally the purpose of this thread. Game mechanics that game devs use to cheat players out of proper experiences.

i like shit likesims and rimworld and oxygen not included wherei make my own fucking corridors with whatever i want in them

usually its rape. rape corridors

>Why did horrible examples of game design become commonplace?

Real world places aren't designed for linear convenience, you absolute buffoon.
The best example for a real life situation would be the gotdamn dwemer box, that is just on a goddamn shelf, which is a perfectly reasonable place for it, but people still get angry about it.

NuDoom is unironically one of the best games to come out in the past few years if you missed a pickup you should have just been excited to have something to grab when you replay the level for fun

Literally Dragon quest 11

Who the fuck is talking about real life at all but you sperglord?

What's the sauce? Reverse imji search turned up nothing.

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the level design in this game is garbago. even bioshock 1 is unironically better in this regard

Name 3 games

I literally only hug the wall to the right when I explore. I've never seen the left half of many games. However, mazes become pretty trivial.

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fuck i gonna say it
the boss castle on the trial was fucking awful

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Do you want videogames to be more linear than they already are?

what? you always know where the level ends you moron

>Long game has missable content throughout
>But also one endgame thing you miss unless you skip doing the other things and rush through the game
Fucking FFIX.

Playing Metro Last Light and this shit happens a lot

nice

Is that Rogue Galaxy?

>somebody edited my edit
ayyy

>buying items

Some levels had points of no return, I remember at least 3 of them. The fact that the game ran on a autosave system enforced the fact that if you missed a pickup after the autosaved kicked in meant that you'd have to replay the entire level.

I made this picture almost 10 years ago. Where did it all go so wrong?

God damn it I fucking knew I recognized it from somewhere

>not getting all the missables and then leaving the PS1 on for 11 years to get the Excalibur II

how about this shit

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Name three (3) games that do this.

someone post the half life 2 commentary about the cave

what game even does this?

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Legendary Edition

Pretty much any 3d platformer

Half Life
POSTAL 2
Jackie Chan

Funny image, OP. I wonder where you found it?

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>Climbing stairs is an unskippable cutscene
>Falling down means death
>Takes ten seconds to reload the room after a continue screen

>play some jrpg
>exit dungeon
>go to next town
>check a guide after finishing the game
>turns out there was a side quest available only after you exit that particular dungeon but before you get to the next town and you need to go back to some place at the start of the game

ITT: people afraid of consequences

I like games with permanent missables because it makes everyone's experience different.

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But in doom there isn't loot, there are collectibles whose sole purpose is to encourage replayability. Doom's design focuses heavily on encouraging multiple playthroughs

This
I was blown away when I realized that Shadow was actually recruitable in FF6's WoR despite having played the game a multiple times already

Just kidding, I was fucking enraged

>everyone's experience different
Why does that matter to you? How does that improve your experience?

You forgot the autosave when he hits the bottom

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
fucking cancer

This pic is so true it hurts, it's just the devs playing on the basest of human compulsions
Same any MMO ever designed, looter games, sense of progress, unlocks, upgrades, dailies, achievements, you name it
in order to achieve:
this

It's vile faggotry

guess the dev

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a rougelike?

Cave Story's biggest flaw after Labyrinth. You miss the good ending of you don't ignore your friend plummeting down a huge pit.

Did the completionist impulse ruin gaming?

Consequences for what? Wanting to explore the game fully before continuing? It feels like a stupid punishment to lock players out of that ability to do so, and it would only be the games fault for badly conveying which direction is the right way to go.

Wonderful 101 comes to mind.
Final area where you first fight Jergingah, you have to jump towards Jerg and then double jump back away from the cutscene trigger to reveal a secret fight.

Because of console war faggotry. People either ignore it or convince themselves its good design so they can praise games on their platform of choice. eg Darksouls
>uhhhhhh no the fact that it doesn't tell you fundamental shit naturally in an on screen message or something is actually good design you're just bad!!
I fucking bought and returned a PS3 for this crap. If the game was released on PC or just multiplat it wouldn't even be known by more then a handful of people.

>Game have a shit ton of missable items that cannot be obtainable later on
>There's one item in the game that can only be obtained by rushing through the game and missing most of it's content

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>imagine being this trash

kamiya?

Bayonetta

>this kills the perfect filer

>A clear indicator that a cutscene is about to start so you'll know to turn back and explore more if you need to
Thanks, Max Payne 3

Now that there is a version of this on Steam, do you think it would work if you just put your computer's clock 11 years in the future?

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I would guess no since it's based on the playtime and not the system time. PS1 didn't even have a system time I don't think

This and also the stupid jump in the waterway to enter the bedroom. Fuck that shit

I think it works, since that ending is fucking retard hard on top of making the next few sections a lot trickier you wouldn't want someone blundering into it on their first playthrough, so locking it behind a simple thing that a first time player wouldn't think to do makes sense.

This kind of shit happens to me all the time. These days I was playing The Evil Within and it has to have happened to me at least a couple of times each chapter. I get so fucking mad when it happens, this kind of bullshit where they lock the way back for no apparent reason really grinds my gears.

Might & Magic Vi to VIII. 3D is a mixed blessing.

I hate playing Moon Mountains secret level in Serious Sam because of a similar situation when you can have either all secrets or kill all enemies. There is a jump considered as a secret that can ignore a wave of enemies in the last platform marked in yellow here, not even a hard one, just a bunch of reptiloids and a biomechanoid I think. I'm a 100% completist autist and these situations kills me a little inside every time.

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Star Ocean V

autism

>Bride gets destroyed after crossing
at least you want have to pay alimony

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This type of dungeons.

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People DO use walkthroughs on first playthroughs for exactly this sort of thing (and just general fear of missing things) but obviously following someone else's script has a negative impact on the experience, as nothing surprises you anymore.

The real solution would be to stop locking doors behind the player. At least stop locking them permanently. 5 seconds from the final boss I should be able to turn around and go all the way to the first room of the game if I want to.

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Every Dark Souls game.

World of Warcraft - Wailing Caverns dungeon

DMC5 is pretty good at hinting which path is progression, just look for light sources and other signs, like big veins in the qliphoth

Yeah that's shitty but at least you only lose gold and can make some of it back be selling the duplicate sword

Wind Waker
Skyward Sword
Twilight Princess

>Valve Playtesters

Every Megaman level ever. Always hold to a side when going down.

>bad level design
>hold my bear

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Every single dungeon in Fallout 4.

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>playing DOOM
>fight through the monsters
>phew that was the last one
>find the temporary power up that you were supposed to use for the fight

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some old rpgs

You can most probably alter the game time of your save with an hexa editor if you know the address.

There are 5 more maps of this size after this filled with nothing but pointless items and far too many random encounters.

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what the fuck

Most Final Fantasy games. V, VII, IX and X do off the top of my head.

WHY DO THEY MAKE THE REAL PATH SO OBSCURE

EVERYBODY WITH A BRAIN WOULD THINK IT WAS A HIDDEN PATH

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Final Fantasy II
>most dungeon doors are monster rooms
>a few random doors have good loot

let's post kino instead

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>that shortcut connection between prison tower and church of yorshka
my dick

>Samefagging this hard

nice

>level has multiple floors
>they all look exactly the same
What the FUCK were they thinking?

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HOLY FUCK THIS SHIT INFURIATES ME
BITCH HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW UNTIL IT WAS ALREADY TOO LATE? NOW I CAN'T RETURN? FUCK YOU!

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Yes.

Best design ever.

>hold to a side
>it was the wrong side

>Real world places aren't designed for linear convenience
Being convenient is the exact reason why people design places in the real world... What sort of hellish maze do you live in?

More like
>Hold to a side
>Center is safe, sides have spikes
>Die

>Dialogue skip when you walk too fast
>Cutscene skip when you press "w"
>Game change the level without asking
>Game crash during a cutscene

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I fucking hate it when it's not easily recognizable WHEN something is meant to be solved

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>Game has extremely fragile system that's neccessary to see all the dlc content
>It glitches out and permanently locks it from you.
Fuck off Hollow Knight.

>game tries to not be linear braindead CoDesque shit
>horrible examples of game design
Go be autist somewhere else

I did like how Dead Space dealt with this problem

>That secret missile at the beginning of other m you can't get again until post game

nananananananana nananananananana Batman

Fucking Oblivion towers, I swear

Hello, Trine.

>manage to get the item anyway
>you're now overpowered as fuck
devilish.jpg

i hate that no hideouts, bases, tombs, vampire dens, whatever the fuck have you, they're never laid out in any logical sense. they're laid out so a random adventurer can come storm through it

Yeah. FF8 Had some pretty gay dungeons.

My thought exactly.

I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT. JUST THE OTHER DAY I WAS A DOING A PUZZLE THAT I COULDN'T ACTUALLY COMPLETE. I WASTED OVER HALF AN HOUR THEN LATER GOT THE ITEM NEEDED TO COMPLETE IT. FUCK DEVS THAT DO THIS.

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now just imagine enemies everywhere and the building with the yellow key having no windows
if you only knew

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The problem with the dwemer puzzle box isn't that it's just sitting on the shelf. It's that it's behind an easily missable ramp in the atrium, right inside a rather large dungeon, which can lead to hours combing through this large dungeon looking for the box,which turns out to be right inside the front door in a section you didn't even see because when you went through the first time you were killing a few bandits (archeologists).

is that Dusk

Even fucking South Park tells you when you are missing an item for a puzzle.

right on the nose
a flat automap couldn't capture the crisscrossing madness of steel beams everywhere and the whole place being surrounded by catwalks with enemies on them

FIFA 2019
FIFA 2018
FIFA 2017

Castlevania.

Circle of the Moon comes to mind. After quite a bit of gameplay you can get back to the pit you fall through at the prologue. You can choose to jump down it. On the left side is a breakable wall, which means you have to fall down it, break it open, trek all the way back to the top and jump down AGAIN. Inside is a minor stat up or item. Behind that is ANOTHER breakable wall. inside that secret secret room is a breakable CEILING, which leads to an enemy which runs into a wall, so you have to come back with the time stopping subweapon to keep him from killing himself so you can kill him. He has a low drop rate of a special item which turns your skeleton transformation to turn into a bear instead.

Skyrim in the nutshell

Ash lake btfo

Every Nintendo 64 game and most gamecube ones.

Metroid Prime 2 has a few places in one of the areas where it looks like you could make it to some platforms off in the distance with light beams on them, like the sort that you eventually become able to teleport with.
They're just for decoration and there are invisible walls just before you could reach them with clever use of mechanics. I must have spent at least an hour trying to jump out to the stupid things.

It's the most basic skinnerbox.
Makes people look around each and every level inflating playtime by 50%.

>Get stuck on boss
>Look up walkthrough
>If you got that item by following the alternate path this boss is a cinch. I don't even need to write a strategy

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Doesn't Rondo of Blood have an entire section of the game that you can only reach by falling on the right spot when all others kill you? Than you have to get that key and carry it arround on yhe weapon slot which means NO special weapons untill you reach the cells...

What the fuck kind of question is this? Why not just have the game played for you? Why even buy the game? Why not look up the Wikipedia article for every movie, song, TV show, videogame, etc. and have it explained for you instead of experiencing it yourself? Having a walkthrough shouldn't be a prerequisite to playing a videogame.

Goddamn man, some people on this board are so insanely retarded, it's shameful...

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If you understand this image you're a real gamer.

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That's a pretty old school fuck you.

It's only shit in The Many. Even Deck 5 with all of it's rooms and the Engineering deck with the elevators isn't hard to navigate.

I think there was some guy on YouTube a few years back that got all missable items and Excalibur II with about 15 min to spare. Even got the jump rope mini game done flawlessly.

this kind of shit is why fog gates are a blessing in souls games

can't accidentally progress to the next area/encounter a boss if it's plain as day where his room is

I can do a TAS and pretend to be actually playing it, too. Big whoop.

I've noticed this is happening more in modern games and I've recently thought about it for a bit.

I think it's the same sort of issue as the movie indursty has with test screenings. Your regular, average casual video game player will take the most obvious path and get the loot and then backtrack towards the goal.

Basically modern game design doesn't account for players thinking like an experienced player would. Luckily nowadays most of the time you can still backtrack.

EVERY
SINGLE
PLATINUM GAME
I literally have fucking bayonetta ptsd that forces me to do it every single action game. I dread every step I take forward if I haven't gone back all the way.

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FF7

Agreed. In contrast: Game that hides higher-level gear/loot/whatever in plain sight, but you need to defeat a really strong enemy to get it. You're meant to come back later for it, but with patience and skill you can do it right away. Love that shit.

>putting something like this in a game that makes the player map everything by hand because there's no in-game map or representation of what tile you're currently standing on
Why did they hate their playerbase so much?

> Stupid """magically locked""" chests that you see every singly early-game area and you have to come back later to open them once you get a spell

literal fucking notepad bait, fuck you bravely default and fuck you ni no kuni.

What's the point of having exploration if you can't miss anything? Might as well make a straight line. The real problem is the lock after a certain point.

Do you genuinely think that these kinds of decisions were made on a whim in the times of 640 kilobytes being the maximum available random access memory, part of which the operating system had to occupy?

>what are bosses coming out of nowhere with no foggate

>Haydee and the fucking remote

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>Game has a bestiary you have to fill for 100% completion
>Certain monsters only appear in areas you can never return to after finishing them

>you fail 10 times
>assume you'll come back for it later with an upgrade
>you finish the game without getting it
>you were actually just doing it wrong and you missed it forever, requires you to delete your save file and start over to get it.

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Persona 5

Try this one on for size
>Consumables that are rare and unrenewable that don't permanently raise stats

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Name three (3) bosses that do this.

Wario World
Super Mario Odyssey
Sonic '06

That level is a straight line you fag

but dark souls is the top one

Halo got popular.

Kid Icarus: Uprising did this for one of the Zodiac Weapons

Eridanus was never really that bad, it just looks intimidating.

The only Souls game with good world design is the first Dark Souls.

>game has secrets
>game has missables
>game has alternative paths
Good, I like games where I can discover new things on replays

The Etrian Odyssey series broke me out of the mindset of needing to save non-renewables. They're not doing you any good sitting there in your inventory if you never use them, and getting past a boss by using them is the best case for them anyway.

This is why I keep a guide open on the side for longass RPGs
Especially PS1 era games

Yulen?

Souls games are almost 100% backtrackable so it's a bad example

>replaying singleplayer games
Why do people do this?

FFXII

I like video games

>wojack poster
>is an idiot

What a shock

Metroid Prime
>mfw

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fucking hell i remember this level. serious sam is such a good game for secret hunting

wat

Good luck with Halo: Infinite

Why are you so autistic?

>remembered to scan every missable enemy
>forgot to scan one boss phase
>can never get 100% on that file

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alternately
>You can return to the area, but the monsters you missed no longer spawn after defeating the boss

I did this with bloodborne. I would clean an area completely and search the entire location. After spending a considerable time searching for stuff, I would look up a guide to verify that I got everything. I was pleasantly surprised that I usually did get everything.

This is where Bioshock: Infinite fucked up

every real JRPG under the sun

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So it's not a real JRPG if it has good game design?

>bought the sword for a few thousand which is over half the total youve amassed to that point
>able to sell one of them for 100

Also related, the lava/water/nothingness in Borderlands while driving

Yes.

underrated post

Overrated post.

Don´t just have to go all the way down then all the way up? unless you save midway and come back weeks later and don´t remember what you were doing this isn´t a problem in this one dungeon. Still lazy as fuck though

I know, right? What's the point of streaming Cinematic Experiences™ from your favorite Games as Service Provider more than once?

This was the design philosophy of DmC except there was no pickup or secret in the majority of the dead end hallways. If you were lucky it'd just loop back into the main path.

Journo ate it up because YUMM COLOURS!!

every single room in all borderlands games

Not the op but found it
e621.net/post/show/716799

This but unironically
I still fucking love turn based JRPGs and hate action JRPGs though

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You could always homeward bone out in that case

the Underground Pass quest in runescape is notorious for this and this alone
FUCK DOING THAT QUEST

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Shit like this is made to create artificial replay value and to sell guides.

Entire reason why old RPGs have so many missables and stupid cryptic shit.

How I fucking hate this.
I can only guess that it's because the average player isn't thinking about this stuff so they'll just head forward and forced to backtrack afterwards, but for anyone with minimal interest in exploring, since we're thinking ahead of the dev, it fucks us.

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you know the games

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Castlevania: curse of darkness is a great example.

Joke's on them, I'm a fucking autist, I eat shit like this for breakfast

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all of them in Dark Souls 3, the fog gate doesn't show up until the boss spawns for the first time

of course, boss rooms are pretty obvious in DS3

Me when trying to get out of bounds

>Manage to get item anyway
>Game acknowldges this in some form then or later on

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adequately-rated post

Isn't that kind of dungeon design supposed to avoid backtracking if there wasn't a one-way route back to the start?

Fuck that and the screw attack for giving me false hope

in skyrim its used despite having only one real path backward. does save a lot of time, though. i like it sometimes

I see you're playing Doom

put a skyrim dragon claw puzzle on the blue arrow and that's me

>Golden Sun 1 and 2
>If you miss something later on in the game it will reopen and you can go back to get it

>Golden Sun 3
>Multiple points of no return where you are fucked if you missed something

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>mfw I watched the demo before release and instantly knew the solution to the claw puzzle

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I just save permanent stat boosts until I have every party member so I can determine how to distribute the boosts

This is literally a map of the Sith Base in Taris from KotOR 1

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Digimon story: cyber sleuth: hacker's memory did this so many fucking times but you have to do it if you want beefcakes in your party

I didn't know you could turn items in the inventory so it took me ages to go back and open the first door

>it's there to remind players that certain skills (which you could not possibly have at this point) are necessary to pick it up
>it was actually never intended for you to pick it up, it's just here for exposition
>If you somehow pick it up anyway (noclip and so on), it's fucking nothing, the room is glitched, the game refuses to go on, because you broke the code

>point in game after it opens up a bit where two large dragons show up at different points for main quests
>cutscene where you and all NPCs have strategy meeting "Ok, you can choose which dragon to focus on first, or deal with more of the smaller dragons first"
>travel around doing some optional content
>cutscene happens after leaving random town or dungeon, supreme dragon shows up out of nowhere
>that big secret cannon on the world map you stumbled on that no one mentioned is actually powered by souls, and half the population of one main city sacrifice themselves to charge and fire it, including at least one character I know is in a specific quest I had done but I have no idea if I missed anything else
>all this in the same cutscene

This
Would it matter if the game is a fucking cakewalk?

>pomf
thanks now i gotta go fap again

reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/bb3870/the_drawing_equivalent_of_fear/
OP is a redditor

So is half this board.

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That's Wizardry 4, isn't it? Did people even legitimately complete it without group help from Usenet and BBSes?

And their therapist, lol.

>find a breakable/illusory wall 1/2 of the way into the game
>wonder how many you already missed

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i sincerely hope that user is lying

Don't feel too proud. The second edit makes no sense, you meme loving fuck.

Why?

Why do people say Dusk is good? I absolutely despised the boring levels and quit after act 1.

The Last of Us

They were, incel

it makes me feel like a shitter when i remember struggling with SMT and darksest dungeon

the hell am I looking at?

Every mgs game. Yes, even revengence.

no its not idiot

Wat game? Skyrim?

It's a shame the immersive sim style of level design never spread to other games.

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Autism that was required to beat the first 3 games was required. Also a heavy abuse of the locateme spell alongside careful planning and minimizing the number of times spent on the spinner really helps.

The endgame is much worse by a longshot with fun times like multiple level chutes and ladders, Trap level X Summon gates that give only level I Summons and EGRESSS ----> It's a fucking wall

Have you forgotten anything?

taking notes ITT excited to trigger kids with my next game :)

Every Uncharted game. They're still pretty fun though. I liked 2's multiplayer

a platform thats too close to run jump to but too far to walk jump to

7th Dragon, the original DS one. Oh and it's fan translated since it was only released in Japan, so good luck trying to use a walkthrough. Fun game though.

This pissed me off so much back when I used to play Defrag.

I've played SMT1 as my first SMT game, this doesn't phase me in this slightest.

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>using the shitty /pol/ meme

automatic way for people to not give a fuck

based

>Get it even though you're not supposed to, some sort of glitch or just barely making it when you're not meant to
>Really powerful item
>Later get an item that was meant to help you get there
I feel like this happened a couple times for me in Symphony of the Night when I didn't have double jump or bat form

>everything i don't like is /pol/
that meme is a mix of /fit/ /g/ /r9k/ Yea Forums and a whole lotta other boards
none of which are /pol/

>t. seething MGS fan

>Yea Forums

which is just a /pol/ puppet at this point

FUCKING SKELETON RUNNER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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are these better or worse than EO postgame dungeons? because, some of those are infuriatingly difficult.

Remind me please.

>only spending 10 minutes before giving up
>not half an hour or more before finding the one pixel you can jump off to get there without the item

Its 100% true and doesn't even tell you some of the worst shit about the game. For instance there is a boss near the end of the game that is unbeatable. The only way to proceed is to go back to the start of the game, put a Dink in your party (useless enemy you can summon) and then go to the end of the game without the Dink dieing and start the boss. If you succeed the Dink suddenly goes and 1shots the boss for no reason. The only hint towards you having to do this is that if you look at the maps for some floors you can spot the letters D, I, N and K drawn using wall tiles.

you had a button that put a line on the ground that points you to your next objective.

So at a fork, you can make the path appear and go the other way

Hello motherfucker!

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My niBBa
>Second Encounter
>that one time sensitive secret in the castle with the graveyard
What a magnificent game

It's on the tip of my tongue...

I was hoping for this post here, thank you user.

Holding down L3 also points you specifically where to go

>tfw sitting there staring at the clock waiting for it to turn midnight
>its 12 bong
powerup time

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>playing on a private server
>group agrees to a full run

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Then there's Valve's playtesters

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dungeons have no business being this tedious

destroys friendships and disbands parties

When did the mentality become 'The entire dungeon must be doable in one run'?

Back to retail with you.

To be fair, you can do it in one go if you know where the wall is and have some magic like the spinning ice shits, and you still have to time your double jump perfectly.
The destructible ceiling is a bitch because if I recall correctly it's the only one in the entire game.

around the time Scholo and Strat became 5 mans instead of mini raids

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