This is your current ultimate tier list. Say something nice about it

>Sword character is held back by the mechanic that rewards good spacing

Attached: ReactionHuh.jpg (666x720, 286K)

lucina is braindead

Lucina gets almost Tipper damage from hitting anywhere on the sword, while Marth gets Shiek-tier damage for the same thing. Lucina needs slightly higher percents to kill, but she gets her opponent to that percent faster and more reliably than Marth.

Generally everyone but Shiek is better than their 4 counterpart.

STINKY DAY

Based and snoypilled

Attached: IMG_20190408_012147.jpg (934x925, 196K)

Where will Joker land?

Did they buff Lucina's overall damage or something?
Because I swear in 4 there was enough of a gap in the tipper ratio that Marth held consistently above her.

Who should be nerfed then? Top tiers only?

4 was a slower game so you could actually hit the tip, Ultimate is just two people shitting out high speed safe aerials so it's harder to land tippers.

Stinkling

No one, just start buffing the interesting characters not in Top.

Maybe nerf Olimar out of Top tier since he's so unfun to watch, but everyone else in Top is fine where they're at.

I need some help Pac-Bros. How do you guys confirm kills? I can always build up damage quickly, but I always struggle to get kills outside of hitting them with one of his fruits. I especially struggle against people who rush me down and won't give me time the charge up my fruit.

>shulk actually made it to top tier
mother of god

Maybe because I put Smash 4 down about a week after Corrin/Bayo launched and just never went back to it, but I didn't feel that wild of a difference when I played Ultimate.
Fair enough point.
Buff bad characters >>>>> nerf good ones.
>Shulk, when his moves actually work and don't have 5 years of endlag, gets to be a top tier
Who would've fucking thought? He frustratingly felt like Cloud Beta in smash 4.

He's a bit of a weird case. He doesn't have the results to back him up BUT pros think he has the potential. Cosmos for example thinks hr can be a top 4 character.

This. Nerfing is gay, outside of extreme situations where there's someone completely dominating the game like Brawl Meta Knight. Buffing weaker characters is way more exciting.

>not Bottom Tier anymore
LET'S FUCKING GO BOYS

Attached: 1534500637975.gif (500x300, 994K)

Is it a smash4 Yoshi thing? Where on paper he should be good, but will just keep dropping each tier list update due to no results.

Little Mac is the type of character who in order to suck as bad as he does you absolutely need to be under tournament rules because of stages.

He's a total monstrosity on Final Destination, but very bad in the mere sight of a platform.

In Brawl Meta Knight was the only interesting character though. Everyone should have been buffed to Meta Knight level.

Everything about Shulk in tier lists is fabricated.

Some characters have clearly unfair advantages though, Peach's sh-float attacks dealing full damage or Wolf's projectiles not clashing with anything being some of them.

Thing is that Lucina has the full tipper reward and doesn't need to space.

Same with Roy vs Chrom. Chrom has the full close-up reward, except he can space around his Fair-, N-Air and F-Tilt

>k roll fags still trying to hide how broken he is

He's never getting buffed, keep dreaming

>Charizard no longer his own character
>Rosalina nerfed into the ground
>Sheik getting worse with every iteration

Wherefore was this curse put upon me?

Attached: 1553896342805.jpg (639x529, 65K)

Shulk's entire existance in tier lists is a meme and goes against the point of tier lists

FIGHTING GAME TIER LISTS ARE BASED OFF OF TOURNAMENT RESULTS

The only thing Shulk has going for him is lots of top players agreeing "yeah he's really good" YET NO ONE PLAYS HIM OR WINS ANYTHING WITH HIM

Yup. in Smash 4 Lucina did like Marth's normal sword damage +1.5% and similar knockback. Now she deals Marth's tipper damage - 1% and knockback.

In simpler terms. Marth's F-Smash deals 17% damage, 21% at Tipper and Lucina deals 20% damage anywhere.

Mewtwo and Mario are better in 4

Chrom being better than Roy is something I get.
Despite a mildly worse recovery, Chrom is just fuckin SHMOOVIN and hits like a god damn truck without being punished with Roy's compromise of "fist fighter sweetspot, sword fighter frame data"

>Rosalina nerfed into the ground
>Sheik getting worse with every iteration
You are the worst sort of player if you're complaining about these things.

hi m2k

Yeah, bro, they should just arbitrarily make characters bad instead of balancing them.

Our boy Robin needs major buffs.

Ordinarily you'd be right but like other anons have said the damage values are pretty disproportionate.

Did they lower how long arc thunder stuns people? It feels like it doesn't last as long now.

Yeah, the new combo for Robin is arcfire into Upsmash instead of arc thunder into Fair smash. At least I think, don't play him much anymore.

it's been 4 months, you have no one to blame but yourself if youre still falling for his tricks

Actually, it depends on the game. Guilty Gear's Tier-List is based off specific matchup count that only impact high level play because the game is very very balanced.
In Blazblue on the other hand tier list is based off actual tournament viability and top tiers absolutely trash on low tiers.

Smash Bros Ultimate so far is actually a lot more balanced than the predecessors in terms of character viability, and most of the competitive player base isn't invested enough to metagame properly, so currently all we have is tournament results. As far as we know, what we see in the tier list isn't actually the best characters in the games, but rather the individual picks of the top players.

Wolf's projectile is slow as molasses though

hell just buff everyone

You can edgeguard pretty deep and make it back. Otherwise there's nothing super reliable to kill with. You gotta be crafty with fruits hydrant and smash attacks

I thought Mewtwo is more or less the same.

Sadly, that's probably going to be the case when if someone wants to pick a high tier Sword every FE character bar My Units are right there with no stat alterations needed to maximize play.

K Rool is fine in a 1v1 match, you can punish a spammer without too much trouble

but in a team match... fuck a K Rool that hides in the back and spams crown over and over again

>Wolf's projectile is slow as molasses though
It's without argument the best projectile in the game, it needs some drawbacks

Mewtwo is trash now
twitter.com/darebsd/status/1101579516944637952
They put more hurtbox on the tail and this is a huge deal, besides that they nerfed some of the other good things about it like down tilt and air dodging

Roy is legitimately better than Chrom, though.
>better recovery
>Side B can start killing at around 80%
>sourspot can combo into some stuff
The real issue is getting up close without being punished. I can't tell you how stressing it can be at times to start a combo with falling Uair, hitting with the wet noodle and just proceed to take fsmash in the face.

Since there's really not much changing of Incineroar's recovery outside of maybe making it full armor + speed + height, they should really just buff the priority of his moves.

oh, that explains a lot with his tail

crown is a low priority projectile though

>almost full 2-point gap between Inkling and Meta Knight
The NA quickplay list

>Peach's sh-float attacks dealing full damage
It's very hard to find people who aren't top players making full use of this, specially online where lag can fuck your inputs a lot. Her hitboxes are actually not that disjointed either, so swords and projectiles still beat her grounded aerials.

Wolf's projectile is only an issue if your best idea of how to deal with a projectile is hitting it, which protip: there are better ways. For one his projectile is slow on the one fighting game where slow projectiles aren't as good as faster ones, and it has long startup and it's quite slow.

>Sheik getting worse with every iteration
Pre-DLC Smash 4 was her best game though.

The best projectile in the game is Shadow Ball.

>It's without argument the best projectile in the game
Under what and whose criteria? I get that it goes through other projectiles, but for one it doesn't kill like Explosive Flame or the charge ball projectiles. It doesn't stun like crazy like ZSS's projectile, and it's awkward to use in combos.

In terms of Stage control, I agree it's probably the best projectile by virtue of its high priority, but i assure you that Wolf would still be pretty strong even if he had, say, a carbon copy of Falco's or Fox's projectile.

That's basically a compilation of tournament results, not a tier list.

A tier list is based off tournament results

>WFT
>low tier
twitter.com/arsenebullyr/status/1084246934733369344?s=21

Attached: 7E782B9F-D2F5-4A36-8C32-F011939D077D.jpg (850x1063, 177K)

This shulk meme needs to end

also I dunno why people use things they do in training mode as something they could do in practice

Nice twitter combo against a bot with no DI

>twitter training room video
These were always worthless. Try it on an actual player.

Her placement on this list is low if anything. She struggles a lot with Ike and Chrom, but otherwise most of her matchups are winnable if you're hitting Rests.

A theoretical tier list in any other fighting game out there is based on a matchup chart.

It's always fascinating to me how Fox is still tournament viable while other Sm4sh top tiers got the boot.

Attached: 1554430391846.png (1520x1064, 308K)

Why is Link not on top tier?

Attached: A17F5C94-8C89-430C-B97F-0550346B7CA2.jpg (693x976, 97K)

no they aren't? Garou and III's tier lists are all based on results.

just not feeling it anymore?

I thought only NRS games did that.

A tier list 100% based on tournament result is as useless as a tier list only based on frame data and other theoretical aspect of the game.

He doesn't even need that many buffs for him to be good. Sakurai please goddamnit this is the only thing I need

Fox is always good. Brawl was his worst iteration but he was still good because he was one of the better characters vs Meta Knight. You just can’t make him bad without severely gimping everything about him.

Why would that be useless? If a character doesn't get good results then is he really that good, no matter how good on paper he may look?

>people still thinking cloud is OP
why he's awful now

People are learning to play around his bomb. The three links make you play their game, but once you learn to play around their projectiles they become worse. Wink is slow and his tilts are really punishable. Yink has trouble killing and dies early. Tink is probably one of the easiest characters to juggle and his combo game is not there. I believe that if they don't get nerfed they'll fall again. Toon Link main btw :(

he isnt obvious top tier anymore but he is still pretty good

>Kirb
It's not fucking fair bros.

Check out tier lists for recent games (SFV, Tekken 7). G and Zeku are getting results but people still won't rank them too high because they acknowledge their respective shortcomings.
Back in UMvC3 Viper was always regarded as high/top tier despite having virtually no results. She simply was too technical yet no one could deny how she trashed some top tier characters in that game.
All a tier list based on result does is show player strengths and preferences over actual character strengths. You're basically making a big compilation of tournament results, not a list where you evaluate each character's strength in different scenarios.

*"If they don't get buffed they'll fall again", my b
Yeah, exactly If everyone played melee perfectly fox would be the top contender. Sadly that's not the case and there's a limit to what a human can do, so jiggs is top tier rn.

I get what you're saying. But to me actual hard results shows a character strength more than how good they should be on paper. If theoretically character "X" should be the best character in the game, but character "Y" has better results in big tournaments. I would consider Y better than X.

The problem is It's really hard to make a tierlist based on the strenghts of characters on a roster with 70+ fighters, especially this early. You also have to account for human limitation, If not everyone on melee would play fox or falco.

FUCK TIER LISTS
FUCK TIER WHORES
FUCK ARIAL'S
FUCK LEFFEN
FUCK ZERO
FUCK MIKE TYSON
AND FUCK SUPER MACHO MAN

Attached: 1554614980022.png (334x334, 100K)

>tier lists
>for a childrens game
The abslolute state...

a little less than one year ago I was hoping they would buff kirby and jiggs while leaving best girls palutena and lucina alone. I guess this is fine

>My nigga Greninja in Top 10

It's been an absolute wild and wonderful redemption arc. Many even considered Greninja bottom 20 by the start of the game. I'm glad we soldiered on and showed the world how good he can be.

Attached: 39365513_p8_master1200.jpg (480x1200, 216K)

His F-Air is awesome, tho

so what you're saying is that it's a newfag thing

Ridley that low? Are "pros" that retarded? He has easily the best Nair in the game, and undisputably the best f-smash.

>OP
According to who? I've seen people calling Cloud good, not OP.

user there's a reason he's nerfed even in 4. Expect nerfing this gen.

Don't start this again

haven't played in a while, how's the competitive scene for this game? growing strong with melee players joining or no?

Solidly dominated by Tr4sh players so far

>No OOS options
>No conversions out of throws
>Relies solely on proper spacing and punishes

Nah, he's fair. Will remain Top Tier for a while, especially if patches are based on Online Presence and results like Sakurai said. In both Tourneys and Online you see lots of Wolfs, Swordies and Chus along with the typical easy to use hard-hitting heavies like Dorf, DDD and K. Rool. Greninja not as common online, which makes him safe.

Attached: B-6LjnNVEAA2LHQ.jpg (500x830, 53K)

Tr4sh players jumping on the Ridley hype train and getting free GSP, meanwhile top players have pocket Ridleys for bad matchups. Cancer fucking character that needs knockback nerfs, maybe even a down-b nerf. A move that does 86% damage with guaranteed setups/followups shouldn't exist, especially not on a superheavy.

Little Mac is bad the moment he's near a ledge

*little mac is bad

whatever little ground options he had in 4 were taken away

>my waifu at the absolute top
It feels fucking good man.

Attached: 1550874256085.jpg (850x1081, 107K)

Come up with some new material dude, make something up about Duck Hunt or DDD being obviously broken

DDD is fine after the nerfs, but Duck Hunt as a FRAME ONE (1) Neutral B that is equivalent to Luigi's Nair in SSBM. Try to combo him? Nope! He presses B. Try to do anything? Fucking nope, neutral B. It's literally retarded, and there's very little counterplay to Duck Hunt simply running away and nonstop spamming side-b.

That too. Anybody who said he'd be broken if his recovery was made usable is a retard. He has no way of covering himself in the air outside of the worst counter in the game which can get him killed off stage. There's no reason for a character to be this bad.

>twitter.com/arsenebullyr/status/1084246934733369344?s=21
based mac

Attached: 1547131751094.png (554x718, 370K)

>ridley
>low tier
He's placed in and won tournaments you daft fuckers.

Attached: Ridley.jpg (1280x720, 156K)

>Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard in separate tier lists

Attached: 1554435304388.png (444x406, 95K)

>the echo of a top tier is also top tier

grats?

Attached: 1552899606301.png (580x499, 355K)

>wario is top tier now
what the fuck happened?

Also, I'm surprised you're still monitoring threads like this. Do you not have a job? Are you just in every smush thread? Kinda weird.

>Peach's sh-float attacks dealing full damage?
This is a real oversight but a very nonexistent one. No peach or daisy player ever short hops to floats at various heights

Attached: peach teaa.jpg (600x600, 123K)

But it's not only based on results lol
If it was, Lucina, Ike, Wario, and Fox would be the top only tiers as Mkleo, Tweek, and Light have won the only worthwhile tourneys so far

He actually can use side b and up b both on his recovery, so he has less trouble recovering in this game.

His smashes still have tons of invulnerability and everything he does is mad fast. Whenever I play as him, I never feel at a disadvantage on the ground. He's really hard to punish even on hit due to his speed and you can condition someone to shield in order to grab and shield break with F Smash. Not to mention he can gimp easily with Down Smash on the ledge

They're still each unique characters with completely different movement, size, weight, and movesets. Pkmn Trainer is still placed in his own spot on the tier list because he represents all of them as a whole while the pokemons individual placements show their own solo viability.
>Pit is still stuck in a homeostasis of mid tier
I shouldn't complain but it hurts that he never gets any better than just okay, plus I really need to find a good secondary to cover his bad matchups. Any other Pit mains in the thread have secondary suggestions?

Attached: reallynogsthejog.jpg (900x900, 80K)

Because a top 3 player sandbags with him in bracket. If you ignore Tweek he is doing about as well as DK and DDD are

Attached: 1527354342606.jpg (1096x913, 100K)

there are people who desperately want to play them solo

>>Rosalina nerfed into the ground
>>Sheik getting worse with every iteration

I'm not seeing a problem beyond sheik needing more damage on her attacks

Attached: Meat shield rosalina.gif (500x375, 922K)

>Bowser mid tier
explain

Attached: 1530401910105.jpg (600x324, 60K)

Fast air speed, good aerials, and waft. Plus Tweek has been getting really good tourney results with him consistently.

We're in a better place than we once were that's for sure. None of ultimate top tiers were as annoying as these assholes

Attached: Never forget.png (1026x562, 409K)

i'm glad i have your support in these threads isabellebro

His recovery is Little Mac tier, maybe worse

Is Wolf being overhyped? Being an immensely popular character at all levels of play means he will eventually have to have a couple people bringing in results with him. He's not bad, but I don't think he's top tier

This. It's fucking stupid. Pokemon trainer is top tier, but this trash list has them spread out across the lower tiers.

Who main ganon here

>favorite characters are mid/low tier again
it never ends

Attached: 1541270196251s.jpg (249x231, 5K)

Wolf can be described as Smash 4 mario being thrown into ultimate without nerfe

>Olimar top-tier even though most of his attacks can be reflected and he's objectively bad regardless
>Meta-knight, worst character in the game is left prone after all specials, mid-tier
>Dominant Zelda is low-tier, despite crushing aerial sweet-spots and a multi-directional reflect.
Yeah no mate.

covering each other's weaknesses

>Low tier waifu pick from last game is high tier now
>Everyone else is more or less the same,

>superheavy
>ridley

it doesn't really matter unless you play competitive

Why is Kirby always shit tier?
>uh huh huh hey dudes let's take a character who's playstyle is focused on aerial attacks and give him one of the slowest air speeds in the game!!
What the fuck are they thinking?

Attached: 1516208488696.jpg (634x894, 369K)

>ICs low tier
if only they were interesting and unique.
having two of them went from being a core part of learning to play them to little more than a gimmick you only have to think about occasionally
These two characters are too often played as one. If desyncing was easier, they would be much better for it. All current reliable desyncs in neutral take too long

Attached: pivot desync.gif (444x250, 756K)

>universal jumpsquat
>better mobility
>dash attack became a kill move
>down tilt confirms dash attack

I like how roy is actually better than marth is for the first time ever. Also double edge dance being limit cross slash levels of strength is hilarious

He's more like Smash 4 Sheik with a permanent fully charged needle

but he's not as fast as Sheik

>reeeeeeeee!!!!! Young Link is too strong I can LI TE RAL LY not beat his projectiles and frame data, a pox on anyone who plays him!!!!!! Nerf!!!!!!!!!111
Now solid pick, not OP, not even strongest Link.
Apologize, Yea Forums

smash 4 mario and sheik's love child

Ryu and Ken just need better air control, invincible DPs, and some actual fucking combos to be at least high tier.

honestly even as an incineroar I can dance on most of them because they end up being predictable with their items

>most of his attacks can be reflected
This isn't as bad as you think, since reflecting a move is rather predictable and leaves you vulnerable. Needless to say the advantage of those fucking disjoints is well worth the trade off.
>Meta Knight
Still has very quick moves and has consistent kill combos.
>Zelda
Lacks frame data close up to shake people off, her reflect leaves her mad vulnerable and it's easy to bait out when you use projectiles. Her Aerials are very good, even her disjointed. She's pretty much dead if someone fast and/or strong gets in on her.
I get the feeling you feel Zelda is stronger just because her tools are very good on lag-heavy environments like online.

The plant is the one that's massively underrated, but that's granted since it was released a month after the game's release.

Cloud main here. Hard disasgree, man just needs a brain to play now. Probably will be around Chrom's spot for awhile since they're pretty similar in what makes them good and bad.

Attached: image0-2.png (70x70, 16K)

People never even use PP's greatest asset - its anti air mechanics, in a game where everyone is jumping. Also you can literally be near the blast zone and come back fine.

motherfucker where do i begin
>heaviest fatass in the fame thus making him harder to launch
>fastest heavy in the game (yes even if hes the heaviest one, NO I AM NOT FUCKING AROUND)
>recovery height can be increased if you mash the b button fast enough during the last part of the animation
>up-b out of shield is a safe move 95% of the time
>Side-b
>Side-B
>MOTHERFUCKER SIDE-B
>FUCKING SSSSSSSSTTTTTTTOOOOOOOPPPPPPP
>neutral-b can gimp even ROB if angled correctly
>f-air is fucking insane
>A-B tier down air providing a safe landing since it has hitboxes that represent the spikes on his back
>f-tilt is a kill option
>all smashes are pretty viable
yeah no he sucks

also are you fucking retarded?

He's pretty damn fast. He has a really good foxtrot, great air speed, and is a fastfaller. He's basically Sheik with the same gameplan, alternate between zoning and rushdown at the drop of a hat and rely on 1 non smash attack move for the majority of your kills. (Bouncing Fish and bair)

I'm trying to get my mac to tournament level, need to dick on some wolf and lucina

Attached: 1533888867690s.jpg (245x250, 6K)

>Also you can literally be near the blast zone and come back fine.
hardly a feat anymore

also forgot to mention
>up tilt is fucking broken

No one thinks this after infinite limit, nair and other stuff got rightfully toned down.
>awful
Cloud's fine. Count your blessing. He could have easily been nerfed into the fucking ground

I mean I suppose Mario speed is fast compared to the majority. I am comparing him to Fox in a sense.

Also Falco should give his bair back, he's pretty shit at it anyway.

True enough, but still less retarded compared to some.

I'm baffled to, just watching Vreyvus and Trela I can't imagine why anyone's ranking him lower than mid. Yeah his recovery is wack and he struggles against small rushdown characters, but he's otherwise really good and has the best gimps in the game. It's got to be a fucking conspiracy

Attached: Dv7RnwIV4AAOHMZ.jpg (800x450, 55K)

He's still really good, he's just outclassed by Lucina who pretty much replaced him as the go to "jack of all trades" swordie since she's so overtuned this game

>recovery height can be increased if you mash the b button fast enough during the last part of the animation
Whoa really? Gonna test this out asap, thx if true.

>best f-smash

Ridley neither has the best nair or fmash, retard. I do agree he's being slept on hard though, I don't know how he can keep getting ranked so low when he's won more tournaments than some of the top tiers. Tiers are fucking gay.

Truly a clown world we live in

Good. I don't miss this unholy spawn of satan

Attached: Bayonetta-Alt1_SSBU.png (600x600, 379K)

Robin that low? I presumed he'd be at least mid, since he has 80+% uptime on his good spells and Levin sword anyway, with his Levin aerials being beefy as fuck, plus guaranteed Arcfire into Nosferatu confirm for an up to 60% trade of you factor in the healing.

How the fuck does he do it, lads?

Attached: FoxSF64.jpg (320x379, 28K)

Fox, Pikachu, and Marth have always been great characters. There hasn't been a single game where any of them were lower than the top of mid tier

I see what you mean, but hasn't Pika been on the upper end of low tier / lower end of mid tier fir 80% of Melee's lifespan?

4 marth was fucking awful and took years of buffs to be good. Brawl fox is pretty mediocre too

>Daisy is the absolute top
Feels good to be a waifufag

Attached: 1428537279729.png (566x664, 127K)

Has a kit and characteristics that compliment the game's style of play and remain consistently strong

He is still being punished for the war crimes he committed in Smash 64

>Almost every low tier waifu pick from last game is high tier now
ftfy

Attached: __princess_zelda_the_legend_of_zelda_a_link_between_worlds_and_etc_drawn_by_kowarisan__da98df3b6b3c7 (688x630, 59K)

But Pikachu was in charge of the Rape of Hyrule and he still gets to be good, why is Kirby the only one who had to suffer for past mis-deeds?

I'm not even a waifufag but Zelda has always been one of the most fun Smash girls to play, especially in Ultimate.

Because the judge who convicts the criminals just so happens to be Kirby's strict Asian father

>fighting space furry
>finish charging one of these babies just as they land
>panic reflector
>swagger up, grab them and wait
Always satisfying

Attached: ST_Phantom.png (3199x2417, 2.04M)

I feel like Ridley has room to grow whereas Samus doesn't. Which is a shame, I wish Samus had more to work with

Attached: gdia1wvymus11.jpg (734x960, 64K)

>tweek
>not trela the god

Lucina is so fucking insulting to the idea of skill. She should do slightly above marth sourspot damage or have hilt sweetspot and higher runspeed.

Samus is actually much higher skillcap than Ridley. Ridley's pretty much at peak performance right now unless something major is found out lmao. The problem with moves like down b is that it sounds like something high skill but actually it's only ever going to hit competent players in extremely specific situations.

This is a feel I know

Attached: 71USSuz7++L._SY879_.jpg (502x879, 38K)

>dedede still mid
I guess it could always be worse.

Attached: Dfzf57VUwAI4LRQ.jpg (873x1200, 160K)

>best projectile in the game
>half his moveset kills
>the other half combos into everything else
>can threaten ledge traps with side b
>up b can clip the stage and sends opponent offstage, and can kill

>All my favorites were nerfed to shit for being top tier last game.
>I didn't play the last game.

sounds more like you're fighting a retard who doesn't know that phantoms can be held.

Yeah the nair thing is hilariously overhyped, when Ike has the best nairs around. Hell I believe even Incineroar outprioritizes Ridley's nair.

I agree, user. People can call me baiting or whatever, but when you have objectively the best airgame, especially his Nair, there's not much to learn. Samus on the otherhand, has possibly the highest skillcap in the game besides Ice Climbers.

What do people think of ROB's nair?
I see people complain about his side-B but not his nair which just puts a giant "fuck you" hitbox all around him.

I fucking despise fighting Wolf. Any tips? I main Kirby and Bayonetta.

That's not to say it isn't still amazing as far as nairs go, but it's definitely not the best when Ike has a 360 kill move and Ivysaur can stunlock you for eternity.

Brawl Fox was a good character that suffered from being chaingrabbed to death. If it weren't for that he'd be high tier

I thought it's slow but serviceable.

I fucking hate ROB and little mac because the input lag makes it painful to whiff punish

Get a better main

the only thing you can do is kill yourself

Curl into a ball and cry until next patch. In Kirby's case you need to learn to accept disappointment

>when you have objectively the best airgame

Ridley gets swatted out of the sky by anyone with a disjoint. Even his tilts don't go very far.

Attached: 1467005389415.jpg (627x470, 35K)

People in these threads don't know anything about this game, do you guys even play peach? Her BnB combos take full advantage of float canceled aerials being at full power. Its why she does 60-70 off a down tilt lol.
Not sure exactly how they'd program it, but as a peach main I think a nerf to float aerials would be a significant and acceptable change. I expect it would drop her to low-high tier though, without those early huge damage combos her relative difficulty in killing is going to become more obvious. And shes already the slowest of the top five bar olimar who I don't even think is top 5, lucina is way better imo.

Our struggle is a shared one.

Attached: 59B0B7E9-70BB-4E28-8E8A-53470C610916.png (602x458, 222K)

Who do you think are top 5

ridley has good tilts (down tilt probably has the most range of any in the game apart from sliding ones) but I agree with his air game being overhyped. nair plows through everything but it doesn't kill and will stale super quickly due to how important much you'll use it. Fair is a solid move ruined by its sm4sh-tier landing lag. Bair is amazing, deserves the hype over nair. Massive, hits low on short hops, 10 frame startup, kills early. Upair is solid, nothing phenomenal, can get some surprise kills if you get the sweetspot. Dair is irredeemable garbage, one of the worst moves in the entire game.
Ridley's aerials are severely outclassed by lots of characters in neutral but they shine in edge guarding situations since they're so big and fast and stay out a good amount of time, which is the strength I hope they play up on if he gets buffed.

same as the OP list except swap olimar for lucina. Olimar is oppressive and strong and shits damage but his flaws are equally massive. He's slow on the ground and slower than a snail in the air with a recovery thats easy to swat him out of. Lucina on the other hand is lightning fast with huge damage, huge disjoints, a fast and huge fsmash that can kill at 50, arguably the best edgeguarding in the game, a near unstoppable recovery, just insane in every way.

It's funny how people ignore this, but newfags don't know that most meleefags bought Melee because Mewtwo was one of the playable characters.

>great neutral game with nair, fair, ftilt, neutral B, side B, and up b out a shield
>predictable recovery. Easily gimped
>so big and heavy you forfeit first 50% against any combo character
>forward smash, while one of the strongest kill options, has such huge endlag that it can only be used safely when reading opponents, calculating the 10% hyper armor you also get
>down b got new spike at early frames, but only use able against clueless opponents or as a ledge trap option
>dair and down b is suicide offstage
1,000 games with bowser and love using tough guy to side b anyone trying to jab, but he defiantly has some hard flaws that anyone can exploit

>finally trying out Ganon for the first time tonight

For all the flack K Rool got at the start of the game Ganon stomps shitters even harder. Unlike a lot of characters you're able to just fucking KILL somebody for a mistake instead of a regular punish combo. Skill ceiling feels fairly low here honestly.

If Ridley ever breaks out of low tier it will be because of Trela, the dude is a monster.

>Chrom still in high
The fucker has zero recovery to speak of and is the very definition of "hit offstage > win", how is he still that high up?

Actual Bayo main here.
Witch Time his retardo blaster and try not to approach.
Punish his dumbass rolling with a Side B.

How do I fight K.Rool as Ice Climbers?

Ganon can be crazy. That Light vs Nairo set comes to mind.

Ganondorf is fun but the trade off is that you learn fucking nothing while playing him. You're just building a mountain on other people's mistakes. Somebody who only plays ganon will basically never improve.

>The fucker has flaws how is he still that high up?
>"holy shit guys how is Pichu the best character in the game?! If you hit him with a smash attack, he dies at, like, 40%! How is he so high?!?"

Fast as fuck, shits out damage, nair > fsmash is true and kills really early.

I'm still wrapping my head around nerfing Duck Hunt in the last patch. Can the two little fuckers ever catch a break? Every single person with items are much worse when it comes to spamming and combos that I'm baffled to say the least.

He better get a fucking throw kill buff in patch 3.0. There is no damn reason he should only throw kill someone 200%+.

I mained Ganon for the first two months and stomped on scrubs big time and i had a lot of fun. The problem is that as time went on i realized he really is braindead: N-air is a busted, catch-all aerial, maybe one of the best in the game, the rest of his aerials are great/amazing too, his Smashes hit incredibly hard and have insane range and because of Ganon's weight you can even afford to make a couple of mistakes unlike your unfortunate enemy that only has to be read once or twice to lose a stock. He's so fucking easy to use that i realized he was becoming a bit of a crutch, so i literally dropped him for a couple of weeks to rehab in a sense. Ended up taking the GreninjaPill and i feel myself improving MUCH more and having a lot of fun. I still pick up the good ol' Dorf whenever i want to have some mindless fun, though.

Attached: 1550958613471.png (1440x752, 602K)

He can lose his side b really easily and his up b only goes so high. It's pretty easily to recover as him from above the stage, but recovering low can be a death sentence from a single down tilt or neutral air. Even with all of his super armor, Mac is still pretty light and can get juggled pretty easily. He doesn't even have the best ground game anymore since they took all his kill confirms.

Link is better than young link dont @ me, though nothing outside of top tier really matters

Interesting and hard to use characters aren't allowed to be good because uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'll agree aside from fire arrows.

because they actually take a little bit of effort no doubt.

which one of you fuckers is asking for the little mac shitposter on the little mac discord

Attached: 1554605536578.png (200x180, 62K)

No he isn't, all of his approach tools have been severely nerfed, and his only counter against a good shield, his grab range, also got nerfed as well. Everything that made him barely decent weakened him to absolute shit.
t. Bowser Jr main.

Don't forget they buffed Snake's uptilt in 2.0 lmao

>Wii Fit Trainer low tier again

She's actually really good but this list compounds tier lists from redditors and kneejerk attention whores.

>fighting Megaman

Attached: 1474786351261.gif (162x149, 1.83M)

don't even remind me.

Ironic statement. Thinking a character should have a "turn" in low tier because they were previously top tier is a sign of a shit player with scrub mentality. Get a grip and go outside.

Ye.

Attached: WFT DK 2.webm (1440x810, 2.61M)

fix kirby

Attached: Kirby Revamp.gif (1920x1080, 1.78M)

I like Kirby but I don't want to give Kirby players a goddamn thing.

They are the worst people.

Yeah I trust only you, random Yea Forums faggot, and not pro players. Go fuck yourself

Ye.

Attached: Dededeball3.webm (432x243, 2.65M)

What is wrong with you?

Attached: 143578492537.jpg (400x397, 27K)

Bring back the airbox on downtilt

Attached: ShyColorlessDoctorfish-size_restricted.gif (500x500, 119K)

Pro players only care about pro play. Their tier lists are borderline useless for regular players.

They're really not. Higher tier characters have an easier time even in low level play. Do you think Wolf's and Sheik's kit is comparable in low level play?

the only buff he really really needs is where he does the same smash attack even if your input goes the other way
buffs that would make him more playable:
shorter fuse on bombs or make them not be canceled by every attack
resonable range on judgment it's so inconsistent on hitting medium sized characters.
make the sausages stop when you input anything else using the b button
make the bucket less glitchy
make the key down air faster

I main Wii Fit Trainer and I almost never lose to Wolfs.

Attached: 1365922328204.jpg (960x720, 72K)

I kept waiting for the good play to show up and it never did

Tips for the Falcon Puncher please??
I have a hard doing the up air ladders.

Up airs are harder to connect now. you basically want to fall with up airs now instead of jumping with them.

Whoa.
That really put me in my place user.

Attached: 11351211_10204799637819283_2657791265113146612_n.jpg (269x187, 3K)

Well no shit tier lists are only relevant at high level play.

I think you're being obtuse on purpose.
And what else is that you know it.

also the down smash hammers are sort of stupidly gimped considering how many more powerful characters have easier buries without sweet spots

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, you can go back to posting webms of you beating shitters online now

>Maybe nerf Olimar out of Top tier since he's so unfun to watch
pleb

They did him such a dirty this time. Rock not breaking shields anymore is a goddamn crime.

DONT MIND IF I DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Attached: RichterBall.webm (1280x720, 1017K)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Attached: Ballrog.webm (1024x576, 1.24M)

OOOOOOOOOOOO.

Attached: Kancho.webm (1024x576, 2.89M)

Autism: The Post - Prologue

>didn't even try to airdodge
Wow

Attached: 1550595418657m.jpg (683x1024, 56K)

Unless you've already read she's about to do it, it's very hard to dodge it. Header is one of the fastest projectiles in the game. And certainly the fastest of any that does as much damage.

Not an e-celeb, doesn't count.

>Big character gets combo'd
>kills at 191

wow so good.

>Can't kill big and light Ridley until 173

It's a fairly well telegraphed move, and I certainly don't remember having that much trouble avoiding it.

Attached: 22e192b5-051c-455c-868f-59ad4d0a2701.jpg (1280x720, 229K)

He's not getting combo'd. It's just a montage of every hit with a soccerball you bloody idiot.

youtube.com/watch?v=WUTVmuqviqE

And as for Richter, it's just an extremely funny way to die.
Are you touched in the noggin son?

Attached: 1417105659900.gif (358x201, 1.87M)

bowser jr is my main since smash 4 came out and in ultimate he is utter trash. He became totally useless. The only thing not nerfed on him was his down smash, which is useless anyways.

With the header alone? Yeah, it's a great projectile but it's not usually a finisher. But you knew that.

It's a lot better as a response than as a point-taker.

You down for a match or two
Can't promise optimal play but I want to fight a character I don't come across often

Attached: 46cb0e34-1ce3-4bc9-bafb-8685992f175e.gif (326x512, 447K)

Ohhhhhh okay. I just woke up tho.
Make a room.

Yeah I can't say I'll be at my best either but whatever
ID: G3NSG
PW: 1981

>Battlefield
God dammit.

Attached: 1507697871338.jpg (250x250, 14K)

considering most of them require good execution, yes

Sick of it? I can switch if ya want

See what I mean?

Attached: wft.png (195x222, 50K)

>just got done grinding like eight fucking hours of matches with Inkling

I can definitely tell I'm improving, there are some players I'm beating now I know I'd have gotten shitstomped by even a week ago. I'm free as fuck to Ganon though, I try to play too agressive and end up eating shit I have no business eating. It can be hard to force yourself to play outside your normal style but it's something I've gotta learn if I don't wanna keep getting whalloped.

/blog

It's fiiiiine.

Ultimate doesn’t have good enough tools for microspacing.

Kek that wall ko was good

NO MORE BATTLEFIELD THO

I just don't know why people like that stage.

Yo WFT guy I can go another round then I'm calling it a night, can barely see

Buff Isabelle please, I'm tiring of being punished for doing literally anything.

>>Daisy and peach
it's been very evident from at least week 1 that peach is at the very least top 3 in the game, seems like you missed everything
>>Greninja
Greninja doesn't really seem to have a ton of good results but a ton of players insist that's he's slept on a bit or have at least more experience with him then the public, desu I believe them
>>Lucina a fucking eon above Marth
Marth used to be able to utilize tipper much better in smash 4 but has since then lost that (for example all jab-1 to tipper anything are completely gone) he definitely seems incredibly underrated since there's just a better version of him, so no one plays him, so no one thinks he's good, so no one plays him, etc.

Good fights but WHY OH WHY do you like Battlefield even slightly? I mean those platforms cramp everything to oblivion.

It's Samus's best stage
Also GG, thanks for helpin me learn the matchup

Attached: 1554674389229.gif (384x216, 2.8M)

Yea this is also early game meta, so speculation makes more sense, plus the problem with shulk isn't that his results aren't good, it's that there aren't players even playing him to get those results, there is literally 1 shulk player in my local scene, and probably 5-12 wolf players, playerbase has to be accounted for too, if we purely went off of results for early game meta then Ike would be top 3, when in reality you look at his abilities and they simply don't hold out in the long run.

>It's Samus's best stage
I believe it. Every platform is a deathtrap. Doubly so when they're all bunched together like that.

wrong, best is razor leaf, wolf laser is at least top 5 but lacks the flexibility that the others provide.

you're a fucking idiot if you think meta knight is good

>want to play hazardless versions of legal stages online
>selecting the no hazards option will spit out all sorts of clusterfuck stages like Paper Mario that suck even with hazards off

Attached: 1539739227738.gif (300x300, 1.5M)

this is why I disagreed with him, razor leaf is the best projectile in the game

GUYS IF THE OPPONENT DOES LITERALLY NOTHING THEN THIS COMBO IS TRUE, HOLY SHIT BROKEN!!!!

It really only feels like that in this game due to the way platforms work, in the sense that they don't.
Even in other games Battlefield is one of the best stage layouts for Samus because she gets to escape from tricky situations she normally wouldn't be able to due to being floaty af
Anyway gn

Attached: DfB1PkhU0AEplfF (1).jpg (1000x878, 142K)

well he was bottom in smash 4 so it's a big step up

have you considered playing a character?

Dude they compensate nerfed her when she was low mid, and straight buff shit like pika lmao, balance team has no consistency.

>Playing Stinkling
>Losing to fucking ganon
Fucking yikes

>her
ROBINS A BOY WITH A NICE JUICY DICK

>Stinkling
Shit, got me good. Almost as good as "pichu delechu"
why do I have such a retarded sense of humor

Is this your first day practicing humor?

Attached: 1510263115677.png (299x322, 159K)

sorry everyone just calls the female/male fe characters by female despite the males being better designs (minus corrin dub) would go male robin over female any day faggot

>They're still each unique characters with completely different movement, size, weight, and movesets.
That doesn't really matter, they all represent the same character. Using all three of them in tandem is literally their playstyle.

>>just got done grinding like eight fucking hours of matches with Inkling
Why would you put yourself through this hell, just go to a local and compete and play friendlies after, online isn't going to get you anywhere.
If online is your only option and you're gonna grind then go here.
>smashladder.com/

What humor you fucking troglodyte? I'm sincere with that name. It's very fitting for it. If you're still losing to ganondorf after playing a broken character that's most likely carrying him than I have no words.

Yea that's what people use the Pokemon trainer spot for, the seperate character listing is as if they were being ranked on their own, no downside to more information.

(not him)
>make up ugly nicknames for characters in a childrens party game because your mentality is too shit to realize your a salty faggot who'd rather keep his "pride" by avoiding top tiers and making fun of people who play them
Neck yourself

>Leave GC on over night on 2 player after spending all of your pocket money on a game magazine
>Get a floaty character that gets KO'd at 40%

More like when? Jesus, I just want to see who i the next DLC. Announcing Joker as the first DLC was a mistake. Fuck Atlas

>the seperate character listing is as if they were being ranked on their own, no downside to more information.
But they SHOULDN'T be ranked on their own, is what I'm saying. Each Pokémon was made specially to cover weaknesses the other two have. Judging a package deal as individual parts is nonsense.

I mean I outlined the mistakes I know I'm making I dunno what else you want from me man. Also, I see you throwing this same autistic shit fit over Inkling in every Smash thread, you might wanna consider not being such a salty faggot.

Yes they AREN'T ranked seperately, because that's what the Pokemon Trainer slot is used for. The seperate ones are purely for speculation, it doesn't matter if it's 3 man shit, if it was different perhaps say squirtle and ivy were literally unplayable, then the tier list could say "oh well charizard is just so busted so he carries the character to top tier, you can see how much each character matters for the dynamic, you're right that the cover each others weaknesses, but you're fucking idiot if you think that clearly saying rather or not charizard is by far the worst of the 3 is useless information.

I'm hardly salty, old son. I'm simply voicing my concern that if you're playing a broken character and are still losing to ganondorf than that's a big yikes.

Simply said if they nerf Stinkling by smashing it's maw with the nerf bat than there's no hope for you, my stinkling maining friend.

How to play on battlefield?
I mostly play on FD and I become much weaker on battlefield
please lend me help

>More shulk then roy

Bullshit what region

Play on it more, stage dynamics aren't really something you need to be taught unless it's niche shit, also who you do play? Character could just suck on that stage.

>How to play on battlefield?
Like an ASSHOLE.
Fuck that stage.

Every game I ever play with where characters can be put into tiers, all my mains have always been middle/low.
Embrace it user, rise up and show tierwhores it’s skill that matters

Attached: CD6C6F4F-755C-4661-A0FD-0F8B46B83AB5.gif (275x319, 1.79M)

What honorable character are you playing, might I ask?

This is Ultimate
Not Smelee

Pichu has the most obnoxious spike in the entire game. It wins against everything and has a xbox huge hitbox.
If you play a character with bad recovery that only has one way to get back on stage it is just hopeless

>I'm massively autistic and don't think Charizard being a bad character to use on point is useless information because of my apparent symmetry obsession.

>Greninja
>Shulk
>Top Tier
well memed fellow gamers

retard

One is a character nobody plays except one asian guy with 0 results
one is a character thats held back by its own gimmick
well memed fellow gamers

I don't see the problems here

retard retard

epic gamer moment

Attached: 1549213317946.jpg (322x283, 16K)

retard retard retard

Attached: 1235971008871.jpg (5000x3690, 1006K)

Learn to aerial off platforms good

Razor Leaf is weak as fuck compared to most other projectiles, it just works for Ivysaur because it gives it a spacing tool it desperately needs.

I eat leaves for breakfast.

Dumbass, Razor leaf is by far the most safe projectile in neutral ever, it's incredibly flexible due to the aerial drift you can get from it, it's better than wolf laser because it combos at low percent completely for free and is barely not safe on shield only if you space it horribly, it also kill confirms at high percents, it outshines pikachu/pichu tjolt and wolf laser because it has conversion with wolf laser doesn't, and has aerial application and kill confirms which tjolt doesn't.

>luigi low tier
kek i remember people sucking him off hard in smash 4
wish mario was still top tier except without braindead shit like up tilt spam

And i am fine with this

Attached: How to float 4 dummies.webm (888x500, 2.9M)

I think Snake and Link are a little better than that. Sheik, Luigi and IC are underrated, too. DK and Pac seem overrated.

Sheik isn't overrated. She requires too much effort racking up damage compared to most of the cast and she no only has good frame speed to fall back on since nearly everyone has that now

underrated I mean

nerf lucina

imagine caring about tierlists

Attached: 1542393026724.png (980x584, 852K)

GET AWAY FROM MEEEEEE

Attached: 1532798093237.gif (254x306, 306K)

Based and shotapilled

pedophile

>28.3 viable characters
Nothing wrong with that.

Razor leaf has RNG effects which affect its distance and angle, making it less consistent than Wolf's laser, making it worse.

You're safe Nana, you can tell from his choices he's clearly a faggot.