We can all agree he was the good guy, right? Dooming the world just to become a dark overlord is not the "good" ending

Humans natural state was within the abyss. Gods infused their own lives into them and corrupted humanity with godliness in order to support their rule. It's up to you to decide whether life under the gods was better (spoiler: I mean yeah) but yeah the gods purpose was entirely self serving. Darkness is truly the age of humanity, Gods enslaved humanity as the subservient class in order to support the continuing age of the gods (fire).

Gwyn caused the fucking Undead Curse you suncocksucker.

I wish Dark Souls was half as well written as Bloodborne.

Witch of izalith is a dumb bitch who created demons.

And dragon butts

Prove it.

>does literally nothing
>is constantly regarded as a legend who's name is still thrown around for his courageous act of dying for a dog and saving no one
???

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>delays the end of the Age of Fire solely out of fear and pride
>causes the entire world to fall into ruin due to the undead
>creates a fake "prophecy" so humans can burn alive to prolong the First Flame while the other gods rejoice and get to enjoy their splendour a little longer at the expense of everyone else
>gave his youngest daughter away to the pygmies as a symbol of good faith only to use her as a failsafe for when his grand scheme fucks up

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There's no good ending. It's between kicking the can down the road or dying now.

sounds like a lot of real life figures

He gets credit for the Chosen Undead's deeds. Outside of that he's a massive failure.

Artorias had experience with the abyss prior to Oolacile, he did get his shit kicked in by Manus but it's not like he went in blindly. Besides, Dusk is the one you saved and she knows the truth, so you do get some credit

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>delays the end of the Age of Fire solely out of fear and pride
Because it means entering the Age of Dark. If things are bad now, then they're just gonna get worse
>causes the entire world to fall into ruin due to the undead
Again, why do people assume the undeads are a product of the age of fire?
>creates a fake "prophecy" so humans can burn alive to prolong the First Flame while the other gods rejoice and get to enjoy their splendour a little longer at the expense of everyone else
He did it himself too. And it's not "at the expense of everyone". Everything is decaying without the fire

letting the age of fire continue rot the world

The Ringed city pretty much paints him as a cunt who used humans for his own gain and created the Darksign to keep them in check

I'm never not gonna be mad about how much wasted potential there was with Chaos
>izalith tried to create a new first flame
>fucked up so hard she created an ever-burning flame that consumed her entire domain and created an entirely new breed of monsters
>it's also somehow linked to/drawing its power from humanity
>then 2 comes and it's grown so mysterious and powerful as to be known as "the old chaos", an ever spreading realm of demonic fire corrupting whole kingdoms
>so dangerous it's juxtaposed against the waxing/waning cycle of the first flame and the ever-spreading abyss (which found a strong enemy in the Chaos if we can infer anything by a fragment of manus struggling to contain one gate to it)
>unfortunately 3 comes along and is like "lol it just burned out eventually I guess"

>it's also somehow linked to/drawing its power from humanity
?

Wrong and bluepilled

>lol it just burned out eventually
>BUT HERE'S A NEW NOT CHAOS PROFANE FLAME LOL
>also there's literally no explanation of where it's from, what it does, or what purpose it serves
>But Pontiff MarySue got it and he's super powerful with it XD

Nothing after DaS1 is canon, the (((sequels))) were never needed in the first place.

>>causes the entire world to fall into ruin due to the undead
>Again, why do people assume the undeads are a product of the age of fire?
they're a product of a prolonged Age of Fire, not the Age of Fire in and of itself, only when it's on the cusp of becoming the Age of Dark

The Profaned Flame is Chaos sealed with the soul of Alsanna.
>The Profaned Flame was triggered by the curse of these women, relatives of a certain oracle, but despite their culpability, they went on living, without any cares.

No. The dragons were the good guys all along.

Nah. You can reverse hollowing thanks to the flame. The age of Dark is a world full of hollow undeads where everyone else is dead and progress ceased completely. Being the ruler of a world like that is shit. The Age of Man sucks

fuckin yeah dude
>3 games worth of bullshit fighting monstrosities created by both dark soul wielders and flame wielders trying to deepen their power and usher in new eras
>replay DaS1
>go back to ash lake
>huge dragon just chilling forever looking upon the true depths of the world, no quarrel with you whatsoever

>sets himself on fire for a millennium to keep the lights on and the world turning
>Yea Forums: "UH BUT BUT BUT MAYBE DARKNESS AND ZOMBIES WOULD BE BETTER???"

you reverse hollowing by sacrificing humanity to bonfires, not because of the fire itself

You can even cut off his tail and he gives no fucks

It's not that it would be better. It's that there's nothing left to do. Gwyn had a magnificent soul, certainly. Chosen Undead, too. But what about after CU? And after that? And after that? Cue DSIII.

DaS III makes the dark lord ending non-canon anyway so its a moot point, at least for DaS.

>you reverse hollowing by sacrificing humanity to bonfires
>not because of the fire itself
It's literally thanks to the bonfire if you can't do it any other way.

Wouldn't that mean the Profaned Flame was was triggered by Nashandra, Nadalia, and Elana? It specifically says her relatives, not Alsanna herself. Which makes even less sense because why the fuck would any of them be:
>Cursed.
>Near the Profaned Capital.
>Want anything to do with fire when they're all shards of the literal embodiment of Darkness and Humanity.

The bonfires are also what revive you and stop death from occurring.

"unhollowed" forms are literally just the first flame cucking humans into thinking they're supposed to look like the lord soul bearers, so they don't explore their true legacy with the dark soul (something so powerful that ONE HUMAN SOUL mutating created the abyss). The mental hollowing is similarly just insanity caused by the clash between Man's latent immortality and the first flame "Granting" them death (and eternal resurrection when it weakens enough that it can't even do that right).

>Coward
>Sacrificed himself to prolong the age of Fire
What did he mean by this?

All I got was that the Profaned flame came from the sky and burned all the humans in the Profaned Capital after Yhorme became Lord of Cinder, Sully found it and started using it.

I don't exactly understand the "triggered by the curse of these women" description.

Yeah. And you become a rotten zombie otherwise. The fire benefits any human with integrity and should be protected

You look like beef jerky though

Isn't hollowing just the flame burning through mankind's Humanity, resulting in them becoming monsters?

>So scared of something that he does something retarded and ends up killing himself to prevent it.
Sounds like a coward to me.

What I find a lot of people don't realize is that those three hand babies in the Eleonora room are Nashandra, Nadalia, and Elana. Yes, the Profaned Capital retcons the entirety of DSII's events. They are fragments of Manus, so they become his hand.
The Profaned Flame didn't come from the sky, but the way the sentence is written made a lot of people think that. When Yhorm linked the fire, a flame came from the sky and burned the capital.

>Yeah. And you become a rotten zombie otherwise
What? You become a rotting zombie when the flame resurrects you.

>What I find a lot of people don't realize is that those three hand babies in the Eleonora room are Nashandra, Nadalia, and Elana.
No they're not, they're just unfinished content like everything else in Profaned Capital.

The flame doesn't resurrect undeads who went hollow. Humans are zombies without the flame, that's they natural state.

Hollowing is some eventual side effect of being undead that seems related to losing souls, likely humanity but the game also likes to reference that hollows do in fact crave all souls, it's just that burning humanity somehow reverses the effect.
For this reason it's a common theory that the Dark Sign is an artificial curse made by the gods to get humans to burn their humanity away as a way to fuel the fire and to suppress the abyss that gains strength as the fire wanes.

Others think the curse of undeath is somehow related to the abyss itself, although I don't really understand this because Undeath is far more associated with the first flame (I.E Estus and bonfires healing undead, rezzing at bonfires, ect)

>Profaned Capital retcons the entirety of DSII's events.
The portrait of Nashandra and the few references to Vendrick in DaS3 makes this unlikely. Profaned Capital is just unfinished content that was slapped together late in development.

Probably not a good thing. Humans need ideals. There's a reason that in the game you're wrinkly and go insane unless you make sacrifices (burning humanity at the fire). Also the fire keeper souls show humanity and soul as sperm and egg. Need both for true life.

It's absolutely unfinished. DSIII was made in a year and about 4 months. But that's the story Eleonora, the Profaned Flame, and the three Manus hands tell.

>get scared of the dark
>turn the world into a cancerous, undying mess
Fuck you gwyn
Fuck you you lightning spear chucking pube bearded bitch

>A flame came form the sky and burned the capital
>The PROFANED CAPITAL
>But this wasn't the Profaned flame
???

> Humans are zombies without the flame
No, humans are zombies without humanity, not the flame.

Yhorm's cinders:
>Lonely Yhorm became a Lord of Cinder to put the Profaned Flame to rest, knowing full well that those who spoke of him as lord were quite insincere.
The Profaned Flame existed before Yhorm linked the fire. Yhorm linked the fire, and for some reason it burned down his whole kingdom.

No, you could have 99 humanity and you still wouldn't be able to reverse hollowing without a bonfire

Having humanity doesn't make you human again, burning it does. Hollowing is likely the loss of souls entirely, dark or not. Keep in mind humans have two souls, a white one and a black one. Gwyn wanted humans to believe the white one was important, but it was the black one that was true to humanity the entire time.

maybe the flame absolutely requires humans to be sacrificed and won't accept a giant, so instead it chose his subjects and that's why he became an ashen one

Or maybe "Becoming lord of cinder to put the flame to rest" actually made the Profaned Flame worse.

They could've done the whole game about Yhorm, about the Abyss Watchers, about Aldrich. Fucking hell they went "go big or go home" and DSIII was worse for it, in the end. Some great spectacles, at least.

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>They could've done the whole game about Yhorm
Considering that he was a completely different character I doubt it.

There's this thing i've always been wondering
Are things always fucked in this universe, or does humanity thrive, prosper and lead a relatively normal medieval life in between the games?
(After the flames are rekindled and before they start flickering out)

Dark Souls 3 made it explicitly clear that the world was way past the point of diminishing returns and instead entered a one way ticket to shit city. When you kindle the First Flame in the first Dark souls, you explode in fire. In the third, it barely clings to you with all the glory of a 5 lumen night light.

In short, no he wasn’t the good guy. The world needed a hard reset from the beginning.

You are both confusing the process and neglecting the implications of it to begin with. For starters, your logic works both ways since even with a bonfire, you cannot reverse hollowing without Humanity. Secondly, the very act of needing to regain your humanity is unnatural to start with, you shouldn't be resurrected when you die; the bonfire resurrects you.

DaS2 shows what humans are capable of in the time between the beginning and end of a cycle.

DSII was about Vendrick and Aldia and was fine in the story department.

Dark Souls has plot?

Only the chosen undead's deeds in Oolacile. Artorias was already a legendary warrior. He's still running around killing monsters by the time you get around to murdering him in cold blood.

>people act like the chosen undead wasn't the bad guy all along

No, you just read item descriptions, listen to NPC's ramble on, notice details in the game environment and enemies and write your own conclusions.

Even now there is shit that nobody will ever know, like the petrified Andres spread throughout DaS.

So... jack shit?

Profane means unholy, and there is only one flame that fits that description. It's nearly identical to the first flame, but it endlessly consumes everybody around it, even after the bed of chaos was destroyed. Coming from the "sky" might as well mean burrowing down deep into the earth.

They built and destroyed kingdoms, lived relatively normal lives, etc.

>He's still running around killing monsters

Nigger, he *became* a monster at that point.

So DS3 ending where you redpill your firekeeper waifu then both of you decide to let nature takes its course without siding neither with light nor dark fags is the best ending right?

>sits as a hollow in total darkness surrounded by hellish nightmares

At least we free nigga, fuck sunshine and the beauty of nature.

There is no "good" or bad in a setting which gives no information on what each ending does.

No, your shitty YouTube fanfiction means nothing. Never once does it explicitly say ending the age of fire is good or bad for you or your kind, only that it's bad for the lords who were already basically dead.

It also does not fucking matter because the ending of DS3 throws the whole universe in the bin and starts a new one which is "balanced". So literally nothing that happens prior to the end of DS3 matters, everything goes to ash and is lost anyway.

Every single world you can possibly imagine is dommed to change.

Sooner or later, only dark remains, even in our universe

I mean it might be chaos, but I'm not seeing it because the Profaned Flame is represented only through Sully, his Witch Knights and the Gargoyles at the capital, who wield weapons that never cease burning.
Meanwhile, Carthas has a much deeper involvement with Izalith.
>Carthas warriors are known for their pyromancies implying a connection.
>This connection is shown in that their catacombs are built into or were linked to Izalith as shown by the Smouldering Lake.
Then you have the Ghrus, descendants of Acolytes who used to aid the Abyss Watchers. They mutated into goat-men and the Demon Ruins are primarly inhabited by them where as all the classic demons except the King are dead. They too, have weird Pyromancers and the implications are clear that at some point, when the twisting world brought Farron over Carthas the last vestiges of Chaos mutated the Acolytes into demons.

At this point, the only real connection I can see is Yhorme being a descendant of Wolnir.

Yep, you also go into Ariandel's new world and fuck for ages.