When did his downfall happen?

>>introduction of expanded cast
only two new characters
>music with vocals
Best part and fits perfectly with Sonic
>transition to 3d
How is this a bad thing
>dialogue in general was awful
It was pretty good at the time reminder that Sonic was supposed to be the stereotypical 90s
>introduced shadow
That was Adventure 2 and was just following the trend the Classics set with introducing a new character every game

After the Sega Genesis is when he fell. He should have came back in full force with the Dream Cast but the way Sega handles hardware, sealed the company's fate. The advanced titles were good but for every 1 good Sonic there is 3 - 4 Sonic 06.

This.

also ring are the fucking worst and least satisfying health mechanic in any video game ever

Underage will say the Adventures started the downfall but people that were old enough to know what was going on at the time knew Heroes was the first blow and shadow only sunk it lower, once 06 came around people just figured the franchise would die off. Sega knew this and funded Unleashed a shit ton and a majority of people seemed to think it was decent/mediocre and Sega took the "the day time levels were great" sentiment seriously but sadly this doomed Sonic and his gameplay has never recovered since.

How do you wanna define that? The games have been getting worse since 3&Knuckles, but they weren't truely bad until Shadow the Hedgehog.

That said, excluding the whole Sonic Boom shit, the past decade has been pretty decent for Sonic.

It began with Sonic Adventure. Then Heroes seemed like it would be a renaissance, but Shadow and 06 fell completely flat. Then Generations seemed like they knew what they were doing but it fell flat again with Lost World and Forces.

Forces has been pretty mediocre
hopefully next 3D game will get more than one year of actual devtime
the new engine still needs to be fixed though, because apparently it doesn't support loading a stage dynamically, which is why Forces stages are so short

You forgot Heroes

>the past decade has been pretty decent for Sonic.
>Colors
A blocky 2D gimmick fest
>Lost world
Off brand mario that controls like shit
>Forces
One of the worst games in the franchise
Yeah Sonic sure has been doing good!

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When they started working on the first game.

Here we see the average Sonic Heroes fan, too retarded to come up with an argument (which is the same reason they like that shitty game) they instead post rage faces.

After Hirokazu Yasuhara step down from directing the games.

2010. Everything good about modern Sonic is gone. Generations gameplay was a fluke.

Don't bother with Heroes fags they are easily the most delusional people in the fanbase. The amount of underage faggots finally reaching maturity and defending this game is insane when it first released everyone called it what it was mediocre garbage.

Zooming around at the speed of zoom

There would need to be a point to argue against in the first place for me to come up with an argument.

Post 2000's.
Sonic is an inherent icon of 90's culture and he was never meant to outlive it. The quality of his games is proof enough of this, with very minor exceptions.

By game standards: 06
By Soul: Sonic Colors

>h-h-he disagrees with me!
>wait...
>he's a zoomer! ha! no wonder he has different opinions!

sonic as a series was never good it just happened to survive because an extremely autistic and horny fanbase keeps it alive the same way people keep talking about undertale or FNAF

there's no downfall when you barely left rock bottom

1995

1991

Don't listen to 457162915. It's the same obsessed autist who stalks Yea Forums for Sonic threads to shit on Heroes any time it's brought up so he can force a narrative.

Check the new ip
Heroes fucking sucks and always did, first mainline Sonic game I dropped

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The classic games were good.
The dreamcast games were good.
Heroes, Shadow and 06 sucked.
Unleashed, Colors and Generations were good.
Lost World and Forces sucked.

chris chan and sonic 06

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This pretty much

After Sonic CD

When they drew him as a urinal. That was official art, too.

How come no one acknowledges the handheld games? The Advance trilogy was alright. The Rush duology (or trilogy if you include Colors DS) are generally regarded very well. And Generations 3DS is better then Generations in some way (having a way better final boss). Only Lost Worlds 3DS is outright not worth it.

Because if I want to play a 2D Sonic game, I'll play the classic trilogy or Mania. The games you listed are fine to play through, but they don't do anything special and aren't really memorable at all.

Cope

Generations 3DS also had better Classic Sonic physics. However it was a huge missed opportunity to represent all the handheld games and even the ones Dimps worked on.

Sonic Colors.

The only way 3D Sonic can be saved is by making it a DMC rip off Character action game and adding speed segments.
Sonic combat
>Pretty basic, has melee attacks, extends combos with homing attack, also has spin dash.
Shadow combat
>More complex, instead of homing attack, he has Dantes Trick teleports. Also has combo extensions and a projectile.
Silver combat
>Make him literally Nero. instead of going to enemies for combos, he pulls them in. deals hits in close range, but has a chargeable attack, and has busters.
Sonic's speed segments.
>Boost based, Unleashed, Generations, less so Forces and Colors.
Shadow's Speed segments.
>Using Shadow's trickier movement for platforming and speed, Shadow's stages are more combat based anyway.
Silver speed segments.
>Very few speed segments, but the ones he has are like Sonic Boost, only he can Fly.

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When Sonic X-treme got canned.

Ancient man from 1986 here. Fuck you, fuck the boomer/zoomer meme, and fuck Autism the Hedgehog

The moment the porn got stale.

Fucking pathetic

I want a Team Dark spinoff where Shadow has a mix of speed and melee combat with teleporting and shit, Rouge has some stealth levels with platforming and gadgets she can use and Omega has big sandbox-y Prototype-style levels where you just blow the fuck out of everything.

When Sonic Team and Sega decided not to make a Sonic game for the Saturn.

>1986

1979 man here. Sonic was good. Now get off my lawn.

That might've been SEGA's downfall but Sonic himself bounced back fine on the Dreamcast.

SA1. They dropped the ball with Sonic's quality, no matter how much "soul" you keep shitposting with. Remember Gen 3 of Pokemon? How everyone dropped the series at that point of the series? Same thing except in reverse, the gameplay got far better with Pokemon, but the soul was lost by all the Kantofags. Sonic's soul stayed until Unleashed, but the quality of the games skydived into oblivion with no hope for a fix because the fanbase is absolute cancer and can't pick a Sonic direction over the other.

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NiGHTS basically is a Sonic game, they share a lot of design principles

Sonic is the Micky Rouke of vydja. He yo-yo's from incredibly based to incredibly cringe

Nights was incredible, but I feel like the character lacked a certain appeal that prevented it from penetrating mainstream success.

Sonic adventure is literally an autism test. Your chances of being on the spectrum increase by over 700% if you enjoyed the game, and a whopping 2200% if you liked the music.

Heroes, any other answer is retarded

This might be the most accurate fucking description of Sonic I've ever heard.

When he left the 90s it was all downhill

I don't get why people say the adventure era was the downfall. Most people I knew back then loved Sonic games, and I knew a lot of people who owned Shadow at the time.

You have to be 18 to post here.

>if you liked the music.

The Sonic Adventure games are a pile of ass, but there are a few non-vocal tracks in that game that are pretty good. The vocal stuff is straight-up autism, though.

When Sega started developing the Saturn.

Stop aping out like a nigger over getting hurt in a game ffs.
You're literally invincible as long as you have one ring, so don't get hit with no rings and you win. It's literally a faster version of Mario

Its the youtube generation growing up and pretending like they were around when these games came out.

Guess who's 2900% closer to those sweet autismbux, senpai.

Heroes was the start, but it wasn't terrible enough to be noticeable. It was still a decent game, just not adventure levels of good.

Shadow was where it all went wrong.

Right about here during SA1's development:
>Though unique goals and playstyles were thought up by the team, Iizuka felt that perhaps there should be completely separate playstyles in the game represented by new characters, to not only change the pace of the game but to also broaden the appeal, and have people who would not normally be interested in a Sonic title look into purchasing the game.
Whatever their reasoning behind this decision, I believe it's one that's negatively impacted the series in a major way, and set the precedent that it was okay to put shit that isn't Sonic in a Sonic game.

Also, as usual, the fans did not help matters:
>The first of these new characters was E-102 Gamma, a robotic creation built by Eggman, his story giving a look beyond Sonic and the gang. His playstyle, that of targeting and shooting, was in direct response to people who had written in to Sonic Team and asked for a shooting component to be added to their games.
Which apparently was a request that stuck around for years and was one of the reasons why they made ShadowTH.

info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure/Development

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I don't really get it, either. Everybody liked them when they came out, the turn against them has been extremely retroactive. I strongly remember nobody having any issues with those two games and then Heroes came out and I was like "uhhhhhhh I think this game might be bad."

And then Shadow came out. And I realized the series was heading down a bad, bad road.

30yo here, sonic adventure was and still is a janky mess. The games are passable, but it's blatantly obvious that they didn't know how to transition to 3d and the game suffered. Adventure 2 is when the series fell off the cliff. Heroes is when people noticed it was falling. 06 is when it hit the ground.

>but they don't do anything special and aren't really memorable at all
cringe, bluepilled and blatantly incorrect

Youtube e-celebs who were absolute shit at the games broadcasting their salt and Zoomers eating it up because they can't produce cognitive thought.

Yeah I get you, he/she/whateverwhocares looks kinda weird and definitely doesn't scream 90s attitude era like Sonic does.
What a shame, I hope one day NiGHTS gets the recognition it deserves, maybe some eceleb will take a stab at it one day and give it some much needed attention. But I doubt it, even dedicated Sonic channels don't seem to give a shit about NiGHTS.

Nigga I played the Advance and Rush games, they were fine games. I liked Rush and Rush Adventure (despite the latter's stupid material grinding), but in terms of level design, gameplay and story they didn't do anything meaningful besides introduce Blaze, and she's more a case of wasted potential than anything.

People talk about the 3D games because they're usually either good and add something meaningful to the series or they're really bad and can be dissected. The handhelds, by contrast, are just there. They all follow a similar formula. People don't talk about the handhelds because they played them, went "That was decent." and then forgot about them. I'm sorry if you they have a special place for you but you're in the minority on that one.

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I was probably closer to the target audience then, but I remember no such complains. I can see kids having lesser standards, but I see a downfall as when no one had any respect for the series at all, ie. Sonic 06.

Shit man, I even remember people playing Sonic Riders back in the day. Adventure through Shadow were all best sellers on GameCube and PlayStation, I don't think it makes sense to say the downfall started then.

>but in terms of level design, gameplay and story they didn't do anything meaningful
And Mania did? I mean come one I fucking love Mania but lets not act like it did anything special in terms of gameplay or level design. In terms of pure innovation Advance 3 does more than 90% of 2D sonic games.

I mean if you're talking about financially, even fuckmothering 06 was a million seller and both Forces and Mania sold well. Sonic still has a level of name recognition that means it's gonna move units, so it hasn't fallen financially yet.

Sonic is a great series, it has a lot of ups and downs and all arounds

Yeah, man, Advance 3 had great ideas like "Stand on this platform for an entire act." Powerful stuff. By the simple act of adding the Drop Dash, Mania did more for the series than any of the handhelds.

The jump to 3D, SEGA being forced out of the console market and having to put Sonic on other platforms, including his former rival. But what slammed the final nail in the coffin was Sonic 06.

2006 is the turning point then you have :
-Lost World
-All Olympics games (copy paste 2020, copy paste 2024, copy paste 2028...)
-Unleash (Night)
-Give up on Riders to go All Stars Racing aka "hey look a bootleg Mario Kart lmao"
-Sonic the Movie 2019

Sonic Mania needs to be a side projects, Classic Sonic won't save the serie. Nostalgia pandering isn't good in the long run.
They need to fix Modern Sonic.

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Can't tell if you are ironically being retarded or didn't play the game. Did you forgot about the entire team system adding so many useful abilities and replayability?

>Silver
stopped reading right here

not him but I like how the advance games had launch ramps that launched you differently depending on your speed and whether you pressed jump when on top of them, and then you could do tricks that launched you even further/higher

I still liked Mania more though, thank fuck for widescreen

>she's more a case of wasted potential
this fucking hurts. '06 almost ruined her, and now she is forced to be paired with brainlet Trunks cause japs love it, for some reason. i can only hope she gets to shine again...

When you think about it, Silver is just Trunks with Telekinesis, shit writing, and shittier .
If you scrap his '06 gameplay and fix those last 2 parts, you could have a decent character.

and shittier voice acting*

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All Stars Racing is good though. A bit derivative of Mario Kart but solid in its own right. However Transformed is when the studio gave their Sonic racers more of an identity to set them apart from Mario Kart.
People who call the second game a bootleg either didn't bother to play it or think Mario Kart started the genre and nothing else can be done with it in any way, shape, or form.

>-Give up on Riders to go All Stars Racing aka "hey look a bootleg Mario Kart lmao"
Dumbest post in this thread.

Shadow the Hedgehog the movie the game

The Drop Dash is a common sense addition to Sonic's toolkit that fits with the rest of his moves and aids skilled players by letting them keep moving without stopping. The team shtick from Advance 3 was super gimmicky and didn't add anything meaningful to the experience. It was just a bunch of unnecessary bells and whistles that did not flow well with Sonic gameplay.

Look, I like the idea of a hedgehog with less of an emphasis on speed and a more overtly supernatural ability and there was flashes of "this might be fun in a less garbage game" playing with his telekinesis, but I'm never getting over his pot leaf head. You can fix his voice, you can fix his gameplay, you can fix his writing, but he's still gonna look completely ridiculous.

Tell me what All stars racing offers compared to Crash Racing and MK8D.
At least Riders had its style.

Extremely hot take from someone who just 100%ed every main 3D sonic game that can be played/emulated on pc. I unironically believe Shadow the Hedgehog is the best game from the preboost era or at the absolute minimum is better than heroes. Maybe it's because I went in with ultra low expectations, but I can't understand why it's so hated and I had a lot of fun with it.There are some terrible parts, but most of the bad things you can say about the game are worse in Heroes or the Adventure games.
>The controls aren't that bad. Shadow accelerates ridiculously fast, but stops on a dime and is pretty easy to control in the air. The levels are also designed around him way better than the other games. They're usually wider and there are far fewer bottomless bits.
>There are no other characters. There's no fishing, no treasure hunting, no mech levels. The entire game is composed of speed style levels that were everyone's favorite part of the adventure games. There are some terrible levels(central city, the doom), but the structure of the game means you never have to play them if you don't want to.
>The game isn't a broken mess. Unlike Heroes and the Adventure games, I NEVER had scripted sequence break on me for the entire time I was playing shadow. I never randomly ran off a half pipe, I never died because my homing attack didn't work, and the rail grinding actually works. There's also no janky garbage like the gravity cylinders in Final Chase or the pinball tables in Casino Park.
>The guns are pretty ridiculous but actually fit the pacing of the game pretty well. You never have to stop and fight anything and can just shoot at thing as you run along, it's pretty empowering.
I'm not saying it's a great game(it's not), but it's a solidly mediocre 3D platformer in the same vein as adventure/heroes.

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>The team shtick from Advance 3 was super gimmicky and didn't add anything meaningful to the experience. It was just a bunch of unnecessary bells and whistles that did not flow well with Sonic gameplay.
Absolutely incorrect just because you didn't want to take the time to get good at it doesn't mean it was useless. So many of those moves could be used to beat the levels faster or reach hidden paths.

His head is literally a Japanese maple leaf, vapefag.

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>Better control
>Better boost system
>Better items
>More dynamic maps
>Less restrictive
Good enough for you?

I'm sure most of the hate he's receiving is because he BTFO players back then in 06 in the boss fight (Sonic vs Silver)

good gameplay

>Look, I like the idea of a hedgehog with less of an emphasis on speed and a more overtly supernatural ability and there was flashes of "this might be fun in a less garbage game" playing with his telekinesis, but I'm never getting over his Japanese maple leaf head. You can fix his voice, you can fix his gameplay, you can fix his writing, but he's still gonna look completely ridiculous.
Happy?

Not that user but did... did you even play Transformed at all? Or even watch a hint of gameplay of it for that matter?
You have a cast of SEGA characters and stages and even some odd ball picks like Danica Patrick and Wreck it Ralph, transforming cars and dynamic stages that changed each lap, a neat stunt system, and fast paced racing. The game had tons of spectacle going for it.

Yeah that's fair.

Heroes

nah. it's much more than just a dumb game grumps meme. Silver is a plain shit character that needs a complete rework, if it wants any redemption.

I mean you're probably not wrong but that boss fight was absolutely terrible and probably the worst possible way to introduce a new major character to people.

Sonic Heros. I remember being hyped AF for that game as a kid and then finally playing it only to be massively disappointed by the game play and cring voice acting. That combined with Chris Chan's cring being posted online was the beginning. Sonic 06 was the point of no return.

Dang you got pretty far. I stopped reading at "DMC."

When Sega of America died and SOJ was free to shit out any bad idea they had

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Sonic Adventure 1 was pockmarked with the same problems of every other 2D franchise that clumsily transitioned to 3D and ultimately died because their gameplay only really worked in 2D. Rushed out to save a console that was utterly unsalvagable, Sonic Adventure 1 is 50% tech demo and 50% Sonic Team fumbling to make their bread and butter work in a 3D environment. And everything since then has just been built on the bones of this ultimately failed attempt. Production values, flashy music, and the overall style of the games could only cover up the dodgy core design philosophy, it couldn't fix it. 3D Sonic games since then are sometimes good despite the core gameplay, and not because of it. Then you look at the mountain of mediocre, forgettable, or even downright bad games that came out in the wake of Sonic 2006's disastrous release. The cavalcade of games where it's clear that the budget wasn't there for a sweeping, multi-faced Sonic Adventure style game, so they worked with half-hearted gimmicks. Remember when one half of a Sonic game was an extremely awkward God of War clone? Sonic Team have been scrambling for ideas for the better part of 2 decades now, and nothing has worked because at it's core they're still trying to iterate on Sonic Adventure 1. They need to ditch that model and either create something entirely new, or stick to 2D where their old formula worked best. Sonic Mania proves that there's an audience for that, so I don't know what they're trying to prove by ignoring that possibility.

Where the hell did this Game Grumps bullshit come from? I don't watch them that often but from what I've seen they don't really show much disdain towards the series. It's more of a frustration, which is perfectly fine; I get mad when I fuck up while playing platformers, I'm sure a lot of people do. I don't recall them actively pushing for the 06 hate train, it's a bad game of a popular franchise of course people would dislike it. It sounds to me like a boogeyman to avoid articulating a valid argument against criticism towards the games similar to "e-e-everyone just hates sonic because he's popular" or "z-zoomer"...

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Alex kid and Rikstar died in vain for the autism hedgehog

when they failed to make a sequel to that game

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Nobody can ever produce a reason why Shadow is mechanically worse than Heroes because it's just a better version of the same gameplay.
They all just get hung up on how edgy and cringe the cutscenes and dialogue are, which I get, it's really bad, but it seems a little unfair.

Gen 3 don't killed Pokémon
Was Crystal, and specially the GS Ball in the anime

I miss Excalibur Sonic. Even Darkspine Sonic too.

To be fair, the only levels that look nice in Shadow the Hedgehog are Digital Circuit and Sky Troops

It didn't need to innovate shit. 3K is perfection, and Mania streamline said perfection. The Advance series instead tried to fix what was not broken, and reinvent the classic gameplay with an inferior, yet far better approach to Modern Sonic than that of the 3D games, version of the classics. It's thanks to Advance 2 we got Rush, which gave us Boost era. But what really makes it clear the classic formula is perfect as is, is how it takes screen crunch and shitty hazard placements to have idiots call it "challenge" when in any other series this is called bad game design. It exploits being punished as "challenge" which is bullshit.

Like, shit like this is just far better to look at this Advance 2/3 always going at 300 mph because it's basically as simple and causal to achieve it like the modern day boost is. Instead of rolling and abusing slopes to gain speed, just run long enough and you'll just go fest, and stay like that until completely stopped. Modern era is filled with flashy shit to make it feel fast, while skill dictates your speed and thus, makes it more genuinely satisfying.

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user Sonic 06 is like the longest series on their channel

Eh I'll give that one, definitely could've used more color

whatever they made after sonic 3

When the adventure games came out and Sonic Team, for some reason decided that EVERY 3D Sonic game needs to be like those games

That and the complete jack of quality standards and complete disregard for the Brand value and public perception

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Encore mod is better. Instead of entirely changing entire moveset based entirely by the order of your team, Mania Plus just lets you play as the character with the same moveset you'd expect them with, can actually practice and get good with individually, and helps exploration at any time no matter who you play as, instead of having a particular order of Tails and Knuckles in that order, just to find a fucking Chao. It literally cripples how you play to how the devs want you to play, no different from shit like the gimped radar in SA2.

""Lack

>When the adventure games came out and Sonic Team, for some reason decided that EVERY 3D Sonic game needs to be like those games

Which was correct since they are the only way Sonic can properly work in 3D.

> ring are the fucking worst and least satisfying health mechanic in any video game ever

I don't know if I would say EVER but it's pretty bad.

>You're literally invincible as long as you have one ring

That's the whole fucking problem. There's no difference between 1 ring and 1000 rings, unless you want to cheese with Super Sonic.

>Likes Sonic CD

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You can just TELL this faggot watches Game Grumps.

Fuck you, SA1 had a nice soundtrack.

i have done fucked up

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One of Eggman's robots confirmed

Adventure. No doubt.

>she is forced to be paired with brainlet Trunks cause japs love it
I don't get this, she has no chemistry with him whatsoever. She has way better interactions with Sonic and even Marine. What is wrong with these 06fags?

Sonicfags really like the use the zoomer boogeyman more than anyone else huh

rings give you more lives you colossal faggot

Sonic's kinda a rollercoaster of ups and downs. In general Adventure 2 was probably the start with them going backwards from SA1 in a lot of ways followed by an identity crisis for the games following it.

Sonic's main source of issues today come from Colors, though.

Sonic Colors
Fuck pontaff and fuck memes

Forces dropped the lives system

The game improves on heroes mechanically in like every way. People complain about guns, but compared to the absolute slog that was combat in heroes the guns felt pretty great.
I thought lava shelter and cryptic castle were pretty cool. I also liked the callback to final chase. The rest of the levels were pretty boring aesthetically though, especially the alien levels. There were like 3 and I honestly can't tell them apart even after playing all of them 5+times.

>There's no difference between 1 ring and 1000 rings
Back then it's called score. Your zoomer ass don't understand this, but arcade era gaming people liked getting big high scores. That's why it's there, the more rings you save at the end of the act, the more score bonus you get, and for every hundred rings you get, you get an extra life, which is another zoomer hates this" feature people liked in the past. It's 100% perfectly functional for the era it represents

Modern Sonic could use them like in SA2 but far more expanded on; currency for new things like power ups, shit for chao, etc. And they do use this in future titles sparingly, but still rather in a limited way.

Almost forgot about Lava Shelter, it was fun trying to see how fast you could grind because how well they fixed it

It's easy to blame '06 for the downfall, and Heroes/Shadow also played their part but the critical response to Unleashed is what truly killed the franchise:

>Shitloads of money and effort poured into the game to make up for '06.
>Cohesive art direction and graphics that still looks good today.
>The best soundtrack in the series.
>Good day levels, especially when it was new.

Then the reviews came out. The werehog wasn't a good idea, for sure; but after the game got so unfairly savaged by critics, can you really blame Sonic Team for not bothering any more? Unleashed was them throwing literally everything they had at a project, and look where it got them.

3D

It's a pretty splintered fanbase.
Thing is Sonic has been so inconsistent over the years that how old you are probably does have an effect on your expectations for the series. If you're a fan that is. Calling someone a zoomer here is somewhat apt.
Sonic was never goodfags aren't fans though are just come here to bait and sonicfags are the biggest fucking dramawhores ever so they bite every single time. I think they just like to stir the pot desu.

Score was a pretty superfluous mechanic in most games. No one has ever played through Sonic or Mario World and gave a fuck about their score. Life systems are the same way in games that let you immediately continue from where you left off and I don't understand why games still use them.
I wish they had fixed the grinding before Sonic Heroes. Getting the A ranks on Rail Canyon made me want to kill myself.

That's why I always switched to flight whenever changing rails, otherwises it's 50/50

Hasn't taken the Shadowpill I see

>No one has ever played through Sonic or Mario World and gave a fuck about their score.
Because milliails didn't care. Don't fucking matter because SEGA was a arcade company, it's part of their element. It doesn't make the games bad what so ever, it just is arcadic.

>Life systems are the same way in games that let you immediately continue from where you left off and I don't understand why games still use them.
Because the only thing that makes them outdated is how the only point of them was again, being arcadic, was the ingame "credit" aka quarter to keep playing that was part of the arcade days. Once games became casualized, it's purpose became incompatible, but, not unusable. They should be retool into hitpoints for peoples to advoid death, and once you lose them all, restart the level again. Having it where dying means "go back 5 feet" made all gaming a joke in terms of difficulty, and I can't stand how double standard this site get with having it both ways. Hates being challenged, but hates dying all the time. Fucking make up your minds.

Lives only sucked when they reboot the entire game on your ass. Otherwise it's completely necessary to make it clear "don't die = not a scrub, don't get hurt = pro"

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And pic related was apparently such a good idea that it needed to be rehashed for Mania.

But they made the enemies into armadillos instead of turtles, so it's completely different.

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>drifting doesn't make you tilt the analog stick left or right or time your button presses
>items slow you down not halt your movement
>stunts give you a greater control in the air while rewarding you with a speed boost if you land correctly

colors>
>457159003
fuck off
fuck off
fuck off

That really was brutal. More than one major outlet rated Unleashed worse than 06. That befuddles me to this day.

This game right here. This was the game where the Sonic series became soulless.

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>A callback is bad
It's another "GHZ makes Mania bad" episode

But that was better than Heroes.

>all those people who unironically say sonic was never good
if that isn't the definite proof of his downfall i don't know what is
i blame sonic heroes

>Implying that nostalgia pandering can't be bad.
>Implying that Sky Chase Zone was ever good in the first place.

You say "arcadic", but archaic is probably a better word. Scores were relevant in arcade games because you would compete against other players in your area for the high score and most games lacked a narrative/definitive end. High scores have no place in a home console game unless there is some kind of online leader board or ranking system like the ones in later sonic games. I have never heard anyone talk about their score in a game like Mario World, even when I was a kid. It serves no function.

Life systems are the same way if they don't reboot the entire game. What's the point of a gameover if all it does is send you back to the menu where you have to reload the stage you were already on? It's just a waste of time.
I like the occasional callback, but they stop feeling special when there are tons in every single sonic game. GHZ in SA2 was mindblowing, GHZ in mania made me groan.

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Sonic peaked at Sonic Adventure then it went downhill after that.

lmao I havent seen gg since 2012 whats your point?

I like the music a lot and it's nice to take a little break after fucking Metropolis Zone. Probably shouldn't have been in Mania though or if it had to be at least flesh the concept out some more. Maybe like spindash to make the plane go faster or something. As it is it just kinda hurts the game's pacing being just a little past the midpoint where things should be ramping up not slowing down.
Eggman's train was pretty cute tho.

Saturn. Sega never released a true sonic game for the system which hurt. SA came and got a pass because everyone was starved for 3D Sonic. SA2 however is when the cracks started to show up in the dam and 06 was when the full burst occurred.

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Non-meme answer: Sonic Heroes

Although the game had good points it was mostly trash.

Well, it's the first game that showed that Sonic has turned into a budget series.

>>Implying that nostalgia pandering can't be bad.
When its done with no soul, yes. See Sonic 4
>>Implying that Sky Chase Zone was ever good in the first place.
Being a retard isn't healthy. It's called a breather act for the real second to last zone in the game.

>he now works for NST making Mini Mario shovelware

Why do all former Sega employees always get JUST'd later on in life? Naka gets cucked by Rodea bombing and shuttering Prope down, and a handful of monkeys make up Arzest after failing with Artoon. Is there even ONE former Sega dev from the 90's that isn't on Sonic Team and is doing well for themselves?

adventure was the catalyst but it didn't ruin sonic yet. It introduced alot of good things that was going to become worse in the future. But it was with shadow's game where sonic's quality took a nosedive.

This

This

Heroes was way worse than Shadow.
>Have to replay every level 4 times with practically no changes(except as chaotix missions which were mostly frustrating)
>Extremely slippery controls, with levels that do a terrible job of accommodating them. Lots of narrow platforms above bottomless pits.
>Levels that go on for 10+ minutes
>Awful enemies that take forever to fight
>Broken mechanics like rail grinding and pinball

The literal second he was created.

When they decided to scrap chaos emeralds and super sonic

Sonic Classic era: great
Sonic 4 era: eh
Post-Sonic Adventure era: downhill

>>Have to replay every level 4 times with practically no changes(except as chaotix missions which were mostly frustrating)
Ya tidus if you are marathoning the game but f you play it in bursts it's fresh. Also each teams have their own quirks that makes them fun like Espio's invisibility, Cheese, etc
>>Extremely slippery controls, with levels that do a terrible job of accommodating them. Lots of narrow platforms above bottomless pits.
Ony had this problem in the second stage with the energy floors
>>Levels that go on for 10+ minutes
How's this bad unless you've ADHD
>>Awful enemies that take forever to fight
Git Gud
>>Broken mechanics like rail grinding and pinball
Well......... Ok you're right here
Also don't play the PS2 version under any circumstance

I'm not even an Adventurefag but Jesus even the worst Tails/Robotnik mech level is better than anything in Sonic 4

>Ya tidus if you are marathoning the game but f you play it in bursts it's fresh. Also each teams have their own quirks that makes them fun like Espio's invisibility, Cheese, etc
So the game is so shit you have to literally stop playing it for awhile to make it bearable
>Ony had this problem in the second stage with the energy floors
The controls are objectively garbage doesn't matter if you didn't have problems with them
>How's this bad unless you've ADHD
Because its artificial length they literally copy paste set pieces and enemies to make the levels longer. Its boring as hell.
>Git Gud
Not an argument because its not hard just boring and repetitive
Fuck off Heroes baby

All of your greentext is true but shadow is still even worse somehow.
>The level design was much worse
>the slippery controls from heroes became sloppier,
>broken mechanics like the vehicles and overpowered guns
>boring slow flying sections and hover sections were worse then the speedy kart and flying spinner sections of heroes
>visuals are no where near as interesting as heroes varied locations
>serious edgy story < light heated simple story. The inconsistency of cutscenes depending on your path makes it even worse.
>super chaos powers when the blue and red gauge fill up are worthless compared to the teamblast
>even when siding with one faction the enemy AI will still attack you anyway
>Most forgettable soundtrack of the 3D sonic's, besides Boom and Lost world

I think the bosses were better in shadow then in heroes and if the stages didn't suck it would have more replayability but thats it.

Sadly I have to agree. Sonic 4 lacks so much soul that you really wonder how they got away with it. Mania is what it should have been. Isn't it crazy to think that Sega tried to sell a 4 zone long game with only sonic playable for 15 bucks with a straight face compared to a 20 dollar one with all 3 of the original trio (two more later) and 12 zones for 20?

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>Birthday Sa2 pack
Based, just got mine in last week.

Sega in general has been so JUST'ED that they make Capcom look like fucking Rockstar Games. I am dead fucking serious. I have never seen a company sink so lo low since fucking Atari. The only reason this company is still afloat is because of Gacha shit. If Nintendo bought the company it'd be a fucking blessing.

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4 was fucking lazy. It looked worse than most fan games with the generic stock model back grounds. The physics were like Sonic had led in his shoes. The level design was rudimentary and the bosses were all rehashes that were some how worse than the original with some boring music to boot. The game felt like a first draft
Mania did fan service right even if Green Hill zone AGAIN is kind of irksome

Getting the physics right is how I already knew I was sold on Mania. They are arguably the most important part of any 2D Sonic game besides the level design and it baffles me when some people say they aren't that big of a deal.

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The first loop de loop.

This might be one of the saddest posts I've ever read

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I love him so much...

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He meant SA2 :^)

The other guy who replied made basically all my points for me. Just want to say that the combat is miserable even if you're "good" at the game, stopping to kill enemies is a massive pace breaker(especially when your characters are level 0) and probably the thing I hated the most about heroes. Also the long levels make the game a massive pain in the ass to A rank.
>level design was much worse
The level designs in shadow do a much better job of accommodating the slippery controls. They're wider, and there are far fewer bottomless pits.
>slippery controls
Played both back to back, shadow is much better. A lot of the other mechanics like rail grinding have also massively improved.
>vehicles and overpowered guns
I'll take overpowered guns over having to stop every 30 seconds to fight the same group of eggman robots.
>flying/hover sections
The flying sections are pretty trash, but make up a pretty small portion of the levels they're in. Way better than things like the pinball tables or the grinding in heroes which took up entire levels and were pure jank.
>worse visuals/levels
I'll agree with this, I think heroes has some interesting locales and the ones in shadow are mostly pretty uninspired.
>serious edgy storychaos powers
The real upside to the chaos powers were the invincibility/infinite ammo, I liked that way more than watching the same 10 second cutscene a million times. Chaos control was also pretty useful for getting good times on some missions.
>even when siding with one faction the enemy AI will still attack you anyway
People gripe about this, but it really isn't that big a deal. GUN has orders to kill you even if you are helping them and you encounter far fewer aliens going down the dark routes.
>bad soundtrack
The intro/credits/lava shelter themes were all great.

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OwO TAILS SQUEEEEE

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Oh hi user... I know you. You post glitter gifs of Tails predating the year 2000 and type like you're a teenage girl in an effort to mock Tails loving anons.

Generations. Classic Sonic as a character is being forced into everything now and should stay the hell away from Modern after the disaster that was Forces.