What're your opinions of the casualization of fighting games?
All the developers feel obligated to have one button combos, comeback mechanics and flashy cutscene moves etc, but I grew up on fighting games and there were magnitudes more people playing before any of these and if anything, it looks to me like they're actually driving away potential players who just see the amount of mechanics they have to learn rise significantly, despite these mechanics being put in to theoretically help them. I was in a bar recently and there was Playstation Classic with Tekken 3 running and people were going up with no prior knowledge of fighting games and just having fun picking up and playing the game, because the interface is simple and the gameplay speaks for itself, despite not having the Rage Arts and one button combos of Tekken 7. It just reminded me of how I got into fighting games, just fucking about casually with friends until we became better and more inquisitive.
tekken 7 is the only good fighting game out. the 1 button combos were patched in later and you will get stomped trying to do them online. rage mechanic is fine. basically just a combo extender when you're about to die.
Luis Wright
Smash is the most popular game today because it moved away from dial-a-combo mechanics. Modern devs should learn from that imo.
Dial-a-combo and other things like that add difficulty that isn't really rewarding, since it's not tied to core fighting competency. Real fighting mechanics boil down to footies and mind games. This is why divekick is still a good fighting game, despite only having one button.
Alexander Hall
smash isn't a fighting game, nor is it good
Levi Diaz
fighting games deserve to die from all the bullshit capcom has pulled with sfv
Levi Howard
Rage art is a one button half health attack your opponent gets by getting beat up, cool fucking mechanic. Even SC and DOA are better than Tekken these days. A fighting game can still be great with simple inputs if footsies/positioning is done right.
Lincoln Thompson
Casuals want abstraction between them losing and it being their fault. Fighting games are typically not designed to do that. Making the game easier does not make it more rewarding, making it easier to play on a level where the game makes sense is closer to what you want but gl making that easy without compromising the game or asking something out of the player more than "here's the controls"
Cooper Perez
Thay falled for the tourney and zoning faggots
Jason Foster
Promise you if it weren't for the characters it wouldn't be big, if dragon king came out instead it would be dead despite the easy to get into gameplay, and you know it. I'd wager that heavy dlc and new versions coming out in a year drive people away. Look at SFV, it got simpler yet didn't do well at launch because of how barebones it was. Marvel Infinite also died because of things not related to gameplay. I'm tired of people saying shit like this when it's just going to take away what makes fighters unique, and drive away the veterans that are holding this genre up in the process. Also, divekick is dead compared to other fighters out there.
Benjamin Flores
FUCK YEA I LOVE MARKETING
ONE SEC WHILE I *sip* A MONSTER COCK
Wyatt Howard
except it's not half health and easy as hell to bait and punish. they are all launch punishable.
you don't ever see rage arts in high level or even basic bitch competitive play outside of combos where the damage gets nerfed
SC on the other hand has actual horrible mechanics that ruined an otherwise solid game like reversal edge and meter nonsense.
Why can't they just lower the requirements for combos but keep everything else the same. No comback garbage and more neutral options.
Cameron Brooks
It's almost always handled poorly and misguided. Everyone learned decades ago that the best way to bring new people in is with content, not giving them an easily broken short lasting illusion.
Benjamin Gonzalez
There is nothing wrong with "dial-a-combo" style games. Half of every smash fight is two fags shield dashing behind each other next to an edge until one of them makes a mistake and the other half is setups into infinite loops/spikes.
Juan Sullivan
>SFV, it got simpler yet didn't do well at launch because of how barebones it was. >Marvel Infinite also died because of things not related to gameplay Both of these games suffered from what OP talks about in that they are technically easier but suffer from mechanics overload, they're simpler if you want to sit down and learn the mechanics, but neither of them are fun to do so. If either of those games were good, people would have overlooked the shortcomings. The lack of characters and bad presentation hurt them bad, but they weren't the all that killed the games.
Mason Roberts
What's wrong with reversal edge? It's just gambling damage, And no shit RA are punishable if they weren't the game would be unplayable. The problem with RA is that it allows people to scumbag out cheap wins especially if they are lagging. T7 is the game for faggots who use cross screen zoners unironicly.
Landon Sanders
Explain what you mean
Thomas Campbell
>Promise you if it weren't for the characters it wouldn't be big, if dragon king came out instead it would be dead despite the easy to get into gameplay, and you know it It wouldn't be AS big, but MvC:I is proof that leveraging licences doesn't work for every product. Marvel are doing gangbusters at the box office and they're more culturally relevant than anything right now but it didn't translate to sales for Capcom.
Jaxson Baker
>It just reminded me of how I got into fighting games, just fucking about casually with friends until we became better and more inquisitive. That there is issue. People don't wanna learn and get gud through trial and error, especial game "journalists" and "reviewers". They fucking suck and need shit built in to make them feel like they're good.
Jaxson Ortiz
tekken has always been a casual button masher
Cameron Kelly
Fighting games in general were casual button mashing for millions and millions of people until they eroded the community down to hardcores.
Bentley Rogers
doesnt matter. the only good fighting game ever made is persona 4 arena ultimax anyway lol
Colton Brooks
you sound like you don't understand how to play around rage arts
Landon Flores
Kill yourself lol
Carter Turner
>perfect sprites and music >every has the same inputs, just a matter of knowing which does what >10-20 moves instead of hundreds >everyone can be countered
ya sorry im right. go to reddit street fighter or smash or whatever autism pit you crawled out of
Jeremiah Perry
>Promise you if it weren't for the characters it wouldn't be big, that applies to every fighting game, the entire genre is pretty much a corpse suspended by nostalgia
Owen Sanchez
>perfect sprites and music Sprites are okay, they're nicely detailed but lack good animation. KoFXIII has the same problem. >every has the same inputs, just a matter of knowing which does what A lot of fighting games do this. Characters in games will mostly share the same qcf/qcb and DP motions for special moves. -20 moves instead of hundreds Yeah, auto combos really show off the skill based gameplay. >>everyone can be countered Perfect balance isn't everything. Street Fighter 1 is perfectly balanced since the two characters play the exact same way, it's still abasolute garbage. People will put up with garbage balance if they find the game fun, see MvC2 which has some of worst balance in a fighting game but still has fans to this day.. Balance doesn't mean shit if it's boring like P4A is.
Joshua Anderson
>capcom fighters are only fighters that exists
Dummy
Owen Wright
They already did that, and there's always easy as shit characters who give you effortless combos. Like in T7 they could just pick Noctis or Shaheen or Kazumi and do easy combos np. Combos being a barrier is just a meme among shitters that helps them cope, they dont care if its reflective of reality or not.
Gabriel Roberts
But I wanted to play as edgelord Kazuya
Ayden Campbell
Then start practicing those ewfgs big boy, gotta earn it
Samuel Perez
smash isn't a fighting game.
Adrian Perez
Smash is only popular because of the characters and the marketing and being a nintendo exclusive. Marvel Infinite failed because it was a MCU game and people who played marvel weren't MCU fans and MCU fans don't play fighting games.
Actual gameplay wise smash is total cancer to play. Doing combos and techs are pain in the fucking ass because the game was never made with those things in mind. Fighter players like Daigo have no trouble playing fighting games for couple decades but you have heaps of smash players forced to retire because they're hands are literally being broken in few months of serious playing. This alone should speak for itself.
Fighting games are imo way easier than smash because you have total control of what you're doing and the game is only as difficult as the opponent you're going against. In smash you have to do all these movement techs and go against the game itself to be barely at a even playing field. You could easily enjoy Street Fighter without ever using kara cancels but with smash that's not the case unless you're playing it as a party game.
Soft-Circle French Bread are the world's best Fightan game devs and nobody will ever be able to prove me wrong. Melty Blood and UNIST are both masterpieces.
smash bros is the future of it no matter how relectant the FGC is, they are literally the 1930s"purist"football league fans of the day
Jackson Jenkins
>POpuLaRity UNIST and blazblue got in evo. People still play GGxrd and marvel infinite.
Logan Lee
I was totally fine with how SFV was on release, it was just incredibly fucking boring to play, especially since half the move were utter dogshit like kens run / stepkick and cammys hooligan mixups
For some reason they gave that kind of stuff to Laura / Mika, which just made the game absolutely fucking obnoxious. Glass cannons are fun because of the mixups, not because of the insane damage they do
Colton Gutierrez
Those mechanics don't actually bring more people into fighting games, at least not long-term. People complain that fighting games require such insane "memorization" to be good, as if it were fucking Metal Slug or Castlevania or some shit. You're facing another human player, the entire skill set is built around reading the situation, knowing your options, and avoiding damage as you attempt to deal some to the opponent in the way your character was built to. Every time one of these people that say that fighting games are bad because of execution barriers touches a game with a low execution barrier, they get BTFO by anybody that understands what they're doing within a few games, even if the former person finds something simple and effective. One of the best things about the new Samurai Shodown is that these people will get exposed hard; SamSho is a game where singular hits are all you need, it's close to 100% footsies with damage that is so high that those hits are equivalent to full combos in other games, and its movement is slow so no complaining about Korean Backdashing or IADs. People will still bounce off of it because they can't read or block or do a fucking quarter circle.
The only casualizations that actually makes people invested are input buffers (which help keep mid-level players in because their execution doesn't need to be top-level to do what they want to do) and the way Dragonball FighterZ handles autocombos. DBFZ's ACs are flashy, unique, and feature distinct references to the source material. I've seen with my own eyes a college campus DBFZ tournament where dudes just mashed ACs as various Gokus and Vegetas people around them were still into it, even good players, because that game's presentation is immaculate. What's better is that that game's autocombos have high-level usefulness due to the unique normals involved and the auto-correct when used in midair allowing for certain combo routes that manual inputs can't do.
>What're your opinions of the casualization of fighting games? Stinky fans. Ew. Maybe the Nintendo Switch should come with a sponge (for $80) and some washing yourself minigames
