WHICH FROMSOFT GAME IS THE HARDEST

depends on what the reason for being unable to beat it was. they're very different gameplay-wise

He's completely right though. If you spam the block button you're not punished for it. You'll still block the attack even if your timing is off. You can't spam roll in souls games because your i-frames aren't infinite. You'll get hit if you miss-time it. Worst case scenario for spamming block in Sekiro is you block instead of deflect, in which case you can run away with your infinite stamina until your posture recovers.

Regular mobs are a joke and all bosses are easily cheesable. You'll be fine. Refer to:

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>blowing your entire talisman wad on a single fight

COPE

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>BB
got stuck at a wall with all my options, barely made progress in any area i could access
>3
it just kinda stopped being fun

I'm just pointing out that it's wasteful. Even under the worst conditions you would only need to perform the blood mist twice so you can 1v1 me fgt the last guy. Doing it three times is a sign of weakness.

>no Armored Core
>no Tenchu

Its dark souls 3. If you disagree then you're just retarded.

You're punished by receiving more posture damage. Later game bosses will absolutely shit on your posture if you don't time deflects correctly, and you need to get aggressive because their posture recovers fast. I do agree there should be more punishment, but NG+ fixes this if you forsake the charm.

can you even read?
>only including modern fromsoft games

You're ignoring the point. It's not a lethal mistake. fucking up a roll often is. If your posture gets fucked up you can, as I just told you, run away until it recovers. You can do that as long as it takes.

Oh no my posture is high better back off hold down block and regain it instantly. So hard.

>fucking up a roll often is
not him, but it most certainly isn't. dark souls is way more forgiving with defense and HP

You have a finite amount of ways to heal your missing health. Your posture infinitely recovers.

Er-fucking-go fucking up a deflect and blocking instead in Sekiro is not as punishing as fucking up a roll in a Souls game. Full stop.

A fucking mook fight no less.
Only dude that Mist was for was the Blue wearing samurai. Everyone else takes like 1-2 hits to get a stab on.

I said I'm not him you idiot, I simply corrected you when you said it was a lethal mistake. I don't think any of the games are particularly hard, I just love all of them

But standing still and spamming L1 does fucking nothing against the late game bosses besides fucking up your posture, you NEED to get aggressive. This is like saying you can just spam roll in Dark Souls and avoid all attacks.

>Sekiro and BB at the top
Zoom zoom, Yea Forums

There are games that came out between Demon's souls and Sekiro that From Soft made that aren't souls dipshit.

what the fuck, I had no idea

You can r1 and block at the same time since pressing r1 doesnt fully commit you to the attack. So basically you can stand there and spam r1 all as long as you block. Face it man, its a casual game and the longer you play it the clearer that becomes.

I already explained to you that you can't spam roll in Dark Souls so it's not a valid comparison. You don't need to infinitely roll, nor are you immune from damage at all times while you're in a rolling animation. If you spam block in Sekiro you are always blocking. There is never a moment where you are actually vulnerable to taking health damage. I'm aware what you need to do to win a fight in Sekiro. This does not mean spamming block isn't super fucking effective when you know an attack is coming but don't know the timing.

Let me put it to you another way. Holding block is so remarkably less useful than spamming block, and remarkably less dangerous than waiting for an attack you're not confident in deflecting. There's no reason to ever stop spamming block in a fight unless you know the timing of the next attack. Meanwhile in souls games if you don't know an attack pattern you're fucked because there's no guaranteed way to avoid an attack you don't have memorized. In Sekiro you can just spam block until you don't need to anymore. So simple a fucking chimp could do it.

I went with sekiro, because if you play it "legit" than its the hardest. But i was hesitant because every boss in the game can be easily cheese, mostly by running in a circle and attacking when its safe. Also the fromsoft games are difficult is just a meme.

Two Armored Core games.
Two Another Century Episode games.
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn
Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor
Déraciné
And Some shitty Mohan Diary games.
Each of the Armored Core and ACE games are far more difficult than any souls game.

I think boss difficulty is way too subjective to rate. Killed genichiro my fourth try, but the nameless king in DS3 was probably around 50 tries.

>DeS
Puzzle gimmicks; the game. Its just more punishing if you fuck up but not actually hard.

>DS1
BK weapons, hornet ring, and poise trivialize everything.

>DS2
CoC alone makes it harder than the rest by far but can also be made even harder for certain encounters like Sinner, Mytha, Fume, and BIK.

>DS3
Straight sword R1 spam stunlocks everything, practically every boss is trivialized by parry or just gets staggered and critical'd for half their HP, infinite dodging with tons of i-frames so you never need to actually time your dodges, chugging estus is unpunishable, etc. its by far the easiest and most accessible.

>BB
Infinite stocked instant healing consumables, super safe ranged parries, mindless R1 spam due to rally covering for fuck ups, rune stacking to make parries even more busted than hornet ring. It's the 2nd easiest for sure.

>Sekiro
Regular enemies are trivial since you can just 1 shot deathblow them all. For bosses you literally tap L1 95% of the time and ocassionally jump/dodge/attack. Passive defensive play is far too rewarding. Also NG+ is even easier than the first playthrough.

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You'll potentially enjoy this more. Learning curve seems to be harder for people who've played more souls or bb. Bloodborne is the one I've put the most time into and I'm constantly fighting muscle memory

That's not even true. You can only cancel your attack at the beginning of the animation.

>you can't spam roll in Dark Souls
Are you serious? You can get so much stamina from stats and stamina regen from items that you effectively can spam roll and avoid EVERY attack in the games.
>There's no reason to ever stop spamming block in a fight unless you know the timing of the attack
Lmao. You can know the timing by just looking at the animations. Spamming block accomplishes fuck all besides you not taking damage, you still need to properly deflect to do posture damage.

Distortion2, professional speedrunner

clips.twitch.tv/HilariousCarelessToadFeelsBadMan

Hob, no-hit Soulsborne runner that recently completed a consecutive no-hit run of all games

clips.twitch.tv/PunchyAdventurousMochaBudBlast

>this game is just the easiest

If it were then it wouldn't have so many people ragequitting it

Orphan absolutely shits on anything in Sekiro or Souls.

Its true. Also having your posture broken doesn't always mean youre fucked since you recover in 1 second with your posture bar set back to 0. I've had my posture broken and escaped unscathed serveral times.

You're ignoring the main and most important point I'm making. You MUST time your dodges in Dark Souls games and Bloodborne or you WILL take damage. End of line. If you dodge too early you're hit and you take damage you must heal. If you dodge too late you're hit and you take damage you must heal.

If you spam block in Sekiro the WORST case scenario is you take posture damage which is continually recovering and has no limit. You can't compare these two actions and imply they are identical.

The first mission of Armored Core Last Raven is only beatable by being on New Game+

>If you spam block in Sekiro the WORST case scenario is you take posture damage
there are attacks that go through block and need to be deflected.

Orphan can be cheesed with a naked fist

You get a nice shiny warning for when that's about to happen.

Bloodborne probably has the hardest optional content out of the Souls games, but Sekiro has the hardest difficulty overall.

>I am blocking
He is to the god damn dragon and he hasn't learned that you can't block perilous attacks?
Also Souls should have taught the other guy not to fucking block elemental attacks.

no you don't. There are attacks outside of sweeps, thrusts and grabs that don't give you a warning. The biggest offenders on that front are Owl and True Monk.

>Sekiro
>hard

Once again Yea Forums proving that casuals are the majority here.
The de facto hardest one is Dark Souls 2, just because they legit went out of their way to artificially put the player in disadvantage in almost every combat.
Its the one game in the series you can clearly see they tried too hard to make the game difficult.

>You can get so much stamina from stats and stamina regen from items that you effectively can spam roll and avoid EVERY attack in the games.
You're the one ignoring my points. Saying you can't spam roll in souls games is literally not true. Bloodborne specially has so much stamina regen, stamina might as well not even be a factor.
Also, you're not even taking into account perilous attacks like sweeps and grabs.

Bosses should have more aways to punish posture breaking, but you only won't get punished if they finished their combo.

you're retarded if you think dark souls 3 is hard user

And then there are attack that can't be blocked or deflected or if they are blocked you still take damage and a status proc.

ashina dojo elite as well but he's a meme boss anyway.

So there are a couple of attacks in the game that make you actually learn to avoid just like you would need to learn how to avoid every single move in Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Terrific.

So can be everything in Sekiro.
Just use the Monk Combat Technique and there you go.

Which Owl? Certainly not tower Owl. if you are talking about the bombs. You can block and deflect them. But you are still taking damage.

>Saying you can't spam roll in souls games is literally not true.
You cannot spam roll in Souls games with impunity. You can roll a lot, yes, but you're ignoring the fucking reality that your i-frames are not infinite during rolling animations. Most of the time you're rolling you're actually vulnerable to taking damage even if you're spamming as fast as the game allows. Your argument is fucking invalid if you're going to act like spamming block leaves you vulnerable or spamming rolls makes you invincible. You can shut the fuck up unless you concede something, you irrational cunt.

I'm unironically struggling more with DS2 than I did with Sekiro. Although it also depends on how you define difficulty. If I used summons and didn't autistically roleplay a knight I might have an easier time.

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the vertical slashes are not perilous. you can block them.

Armored Core

But doing so still deals damage. Not remotely as much as not blocking them but his health was already fucked so it didn't matter.

Tbh a lot of bosses in DS3 can be rollspammed just to get away.
But of course you need to time your rolls in the other ones (which isn't hard in DS3 either)

Armored Core: Last Raisen

What are you even rambling on about. In Soulsgames you don't have to learn anything about "avoiding" attacks because you can roll through it with i-frames anyway. The only thing that counters rolling is AoE with lingering hit-frames. In Sekiro there are counters to blocking, deflecting and dodging. The default response to anything in Souls games has always been that you can roll through the attack which is the reasons why they started introducing more bosses that delay their attack animations. In terms of what defensive options you have to learn Soulsborne has never required you to go beyond rolling. That doesn't mean those games are easy but when people draw comparisons to Sekiro by referring to deflect spamming as if it was the equivalent of roll spamming then that's just eye-roll inducing.

DS2 fags gettin' dabbed on as always, I see

based

I still havent beaten the Bloodborne DLC in its entirety. That fucking boss that you cut in half with its fire ass is LITERALLY impossible. Dont even YOU me.
Sekiro is ez as fuck in comparison

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>You cannot spam roll in Souls games with impunity.
You literally can, refer to my points you keep ignoring.
>our i-frames are not infinite during rolling animations
Regular fast roll in Dark Souls has 13 i-frames, if you keep spamming it, you will literally i-frame through everything.
>spamming rolls makes you invincible
IT LITERALLY DOES
That's was the whole meaning of "invicibility frames" you retard.

>In Soulsgames you don't have to learn anything about "avoiding" attacks because you can roll through it with i-frames anyway.
I just told you i-frames are not infinite and you know this. You need to know how to time the roll or you are punished severely. If you miss-time a block in Sekiro you are not punished severely. Your posture is affected, but your posture is always recovering.

>but when people draw comparisons to Sekiro by referring to deflect spamming as if it was the equivalent of roll spamming then that's just eye-roll inducing.
I'm specifically pointing out why these things are different.

It's the one you trigger when you are far away from him. He throws one or two shurikens at you and then does an arching charge attack. If you hit a deflect you take massive posture damage and get a pushback recovery animation (like in Souls games when you block hard hitting attacks that push your character back). If you don't hit the deflect you take damage. Another good example is second phase Isshin when he starts using the One Mind combat art. It goes through blocks but can be deflected.

Imagine thinking waiting around until the boss does an attack, which you dodge with iframes, with ridiculously long recovery animations were you wail on their butt is is harder than having to mix up attacking with parries, mikiris and headstomps.

>Straight sword R1 spam stunlocks everything, practically every boss is trivialized by parry or just gets staggered and critical'd for half their HP, infinite dodging with tons of i-frames so you never need to actually time your dodges, chugging estus is unpunishable, etc. its by far the easiest and most accessible.
Explain this then, sweetie.

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Sekiro's, no doubt. It's not even in the same league as the other Souls games.

After that it's BB > 3 > 2 > 1 > DeS.

Man this nigga really sucks at video games but at least he finishes all of them. Can't say the same for the retards getting filtered in Sekiro within the first 2 hours

Why are you talking to me about Dark Souls as if I haven't played the hell out of them? You do not have immunity from damage as long as you're rolling in any Souls game no matter how fast your rolling is. There is a delay between one roll and the next where you are vulnerable even under the best circumstances, and rolling inherently makes you sacrifice the ability to counter attack immediately by making you wait and sacrificing your stamina. It is not something you can do forever.

Everybody knows you're full of shit now, trying to talk about rolling in Dark Souls as if it's really that easy. You need to time your rolls or you take damage. According to you as long as you're spam rolling you'll never take damage when fucking clearly that's not how the games work.

You'll take damage when your rolling animation isn't even finished. Spamming is irrelevant if your second roll can't even be registered before you take damage. Stupid prick.

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There are many attacks in the game that do that. Doesn't mean you didn't block it.
The Ashina samurai dude under Genichiro has a multi-slash that does that. Then you fight a Red eyed version under Isshin later. I believe Isshin himself also has something similar. Yes you took damage but you still blocked it. You take less damage. not much less but it was still technically blocked.

>Soulsbab with half a second long iframes in rolls talking about """"""""""""timing""""""""""""
MY FUCKING SIDES

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Except when you're overleveled, spamming OHKO hexes, using your infinite heals and with friends clearing everything for you.
In Sekiro there's no cheese, you either git gud or you won't advance.

*roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* *roll* ->R1R1R1

I don't even know if he did Sekiro yet. Nor do I actively go looking for his shitty videos.

the first one you play

He did, and his chat gave him the win button by telling him to use firecrackers for everything.

Literally beat Lawrence in two tries. Just circle strafe and spam R1.

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>FPS drop to 5
nothing personnell kid

>He's completely right though. If you spam the block button you're not punished for it. You'll still block the attack even if your timing is off.
There really are enemies that you can spam parry on, most notably the centipede monks, but when you try this on anyone else nothing will happen, because you won't break their posture by just deflecting. And some enemies deal so much damage that a missed deflect - now parry makes you take tons of posture damage.
Not too mention enemies also use grabs, sweeps and thrusts, all undeflecteable/unparryable.

>You can't spam roll in souls games because your i-frames aren't infinite. You'll get hit if you miss-time it.
Yeah, but the attacks in souls games are slow as shit and thus easy to dodge, especially with the iframes.

>Worst case scenario for spamming block in Sekiro is you block instead of deflect, in which case you can run away with your infinite stamina until your posture recovers.
It's so fucking obvious you didn't play the game at all or stopped very early. Your posture recovers slow as shit when doing anything but holding your parry stance. But in that stance you move slower, so enemies will hit you again, so instead of decreasing posture damage you increase it. So tryingbto recover posture by running around you would need to spend a ton of time, and in that time the boss easily recovers his posture as well.

>It is not something you can do forever.
Neither can you spam L1 in Sekiro and hope to do well, considering there's bosses you need to get aggressive with and there's a bunch of attacks that go through blocking. Be honest, did you even finish the game?

Your perfect parry window gets smaller the more you spam the block button. Gotta time it or get huge posture damage.
BB is still harder

>because you won't break their posture by just deflecting.
Nobody is claiming that you can win every fight by just deflecting. People are saying that spamming block has no downside because it's better than just blocking with the added benefit of deflecting very often even against enemies you're completely unfamiliar with.

>People are saying that spamming block has no downside
But that's objectively wrong you retard.

see
Nobody said spamming block is a win button. They said it's an easy way to avoid dying. Remarkably easier than in Souls games because even in Souls games if you spam roll you can still get hit by every attack because you decided to start rolling at the wrong time.

anything before DS3 is the wrong answer. The older games are too slow to be threatening and are only difficult because they stump impatient shitters.

anyone that says Sekiro is the hardest is just braindead

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Anything before Bloodborne*

If we're just talking about base game then easily Sekiro. BB with DLC and DS3 with DLC might edge it out just a little bit.

When you know a normal attack is coming but don't know the timing, is it better to hold block, or is it better to spam block? The answer is spam because there's no window of vulnerability. It's the same as holding block with the benefit of being possible to deflect by accident.

Buihihihi, I voted Sekiro but I haven't played even one Fromsoft game. Keeehehehehehe

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I don't know why anyone would consider Sekiro a Soulsborne.

That has absolutely nothing to do with your statement "spamming block has no downside". It objectively has a downside. You're simply being obtuse by saying otherwise.

>Nobody is claiming that you can win every fight by just deflecting.
So the very thing you are saying makes the game piss easy actually does nothing for 90% of the bosses. Seems like quite the downside to me.

I disagree. Even counting all the Souls DLCs Sekiro is still harder. Average boss in Sekiro is literally Midir/Friede tier

>Remarkably easier than in Souls games
LOL
In Dark Souls you can put on Havel's and a Greatshield and facetank the entire game

i think a lot are as hard or harder than sekiro to solo. but because souls allows for coop and overleveling it seems easier

>only including modern
>Demon's Souls
>out before Armored Core V and VD
>out before Gundam Unicorn
>out before ACE:R

fucking soulsfags are the worst.
Also Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor is the hardest, because the kinect is a piece of shit.

>hold up shield
>blocks all damage
>put down shield for 2 seconds, in which the souls enemy is busy recovering his animation
>stamina is fully healed
Same shit, dickhead. Stamina recovers at the speed of light, you can infinitely block.

>people voting for Lifegems 2

None of those games are even remotely hard.

And what does exactly not dying accomplish if you're not getting past bosses?

Why the fuck is Sekiro so high? I couldn't even finish BB because of constantly raging but Sekiro was a joke in comparison

You should pay more attention then, retard, because that was the original point. Blocking is inferior to spamming block. In an instance where you wouldn't block people aren't saying you should spam block.

People are illustrating that spamming block has no downside compared to normal blocking.

You still need to reach that point in the game without those tools.

see above.

Avoiding death is the first step. Being able to avoid death in Sekiro even if you don't know the movesets is very easy.

I wasn't just comparing bosses. If we're just comparing bosses/mini-bosses then sure, I think you can make that argument because I thought Owl 2.0 or Sword Saint were on another level compared to a lot of Souls bosses. If we're comparing everything else (levels+bosses) then I think some of the Souls games can be harder. The stealth system really lets you trivialize the mooks, which wasn't the case in Souls games (especially not in DLC).

In dark souls you can use spacing, angular positioning with dash or rolling, i-frame rolling, shielding and parrying.
Also who the fuck only uses r1 in bosses.

Name a hard game

Battletoads
Contra
Godhand
Silent bomber

dwarf fortress

And I literally didn't die to any boss more than 5 times aside from Amelia and Logarius in base game. Different people find different things hard.

You dumb stupid motherfucker. The Armored Core series isn't even on this poll. What the fuck

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And you are still ignoring the fact that there are attacks that pierce parry, as well as grabs, thrusts and sweeps.
If you spam block at the purple ninja in the beginning, for example, you are getting wrecked in no time because all those parries give you too much posture damage.

>If we're comparing everything else (levels+bosses)
Ironically Demon's Souls has the hardest levels but is the easiest when it comes to bosses. Sekiro on the other hand has insane boss difficulty but you can pretty much run past everything

>You still need to reach that point in the game without those tools.
That doesn't change the fact

Nobody stated that blocking is the answer to everything in Sekiro. The point you're running away from at light speed is that spamming block is better than holding block.

>Battletoads
>Contra
Games I beat when I was 7. They are pretty damn hard but not harder than Souls
>Godhand
Why though?

3D Dot Game Heroes

It does work. But you are a moron to use block/deflect alone.
Enemies will stop attacking, use an attack that is unblock/unparryable, Eventually break your own posture, or move away to regain their posture.
Also if you neglect to ever deal damage to an enemy they will regain their posture quickly since the less health they have the less regen they have on their Posture. same applies to you.
So being aggressive works wonders. Just don't be a dumbass and think being aggressive mean forgo defense entirely. Just means Dodging is 95% of the time not worth it.

Block/Deflect and take pot shots. Jump kick and Mirikiri Counter when needed or applicable.
Dodging is only used to avoid grabs or completely unblockable attacks where are few and far between on enemies. Or when you have found yourself in deep shit and surrounded by more people than you can take on. Then fucking run. Because no matter how good you are at parrying. You will get overwhelmed and shredded.

I am a completely different user btw.

They're all equally easy. Gen Z shitters will just say Sekiro because it's their first experience with a FromSoft game. In reality, the most 'difficult' one is DS2 due to the terrible programming.

>ranged parries
>stamina regens absurdly fast
>20 healing items from the start
Bloodborne is literally the easiest souls game

Yes it does. In Sekiro you have every tool you'll ever need at the very beginning of the game. This makes the difference important. The fact that you can obtain a way to approach combative strategy in Dark Souls if you work towards it is irrelevant if we're discussing something that you're acting like you can always do. The point you're trying to make is not relevant to the discussion. I'm aware that you can block shit in Dark Souls if you spec for it. You can block shit in Sekiro too and you don't even need to spend a third of the game without the ability to block as you describe.

>Avoiding death is the first step
You're avoiding my question.

Why do people on Yea Forums always say that these games are easy when they are way harder than 99% of games that come out nowadays?

I played DS1 first and had the most trouble with Sekiro and DS3.

Sekiro is way less forgiving

>can't grind stats
>no armor
>fewer health item uses
>take more damage
>more involved and engaging enemy movesets
>dragonrot
>higher risk combat

sekiro is the only one that doesn't let you outlevel or summon help to get past things

Dragonrot doesn't do shit but I agree with the other stuff.

Though for me, Sekiro was the hardest in the beginning. The game gets much easier in the middle once you get a lot of gourds. Then the difficulty spikes against near the end.

i played BB for hundreds of hours and i just can't conceive it being harder than sekiro for anybody

>I just told you i-frames are not infinite and you know this.

That isn't the point. i-frames are not infinite but they are always effective. There are no attacks in Souls games which ignore a roll's i-frames, only attacks that have more active hit-frames than your i-frames if you stay in them.

Let's say you enter a boss-room in a Soulsgame for a boss you've never seen before. The boss flails his arms at you, he jumps at you, he tries to grab, shoot projectiles etc. Think of anything a Soulsborne boss can do and you know that your roll is probably going to work.

In Sekiro you enter a boss room and you don't know whether there are perilous attacks that you can't block or parry, if a warning sign shows up you don't know which type of attack it's going to be and since thrusts, sweeps and grabs require different responses you can't just default to "deflect it", "block it" or "dodge it". Then there are attacks which aren't marked as perilous but still go through your block so that's something you have to be keep in mind as well. If there was an index to rate how dangerous enemies are in Sekiro or Soulsgames based on engaging them without additional information then the chance of survival in Soulsgames is higher.

BB can be brutally hard if you do the extra stuff like chalice dungeons but yeah in general, I agree. I personally found BB easier than even DS3.

You are either quoting the wrong post, or you are a fucking moron, because I was saying the same thing as you: simply block spamming gets you nowhere in the game and you have to combine it with other stuff.

How??
There's so many different ways to get an advantage on bosses in Sekiro. Almost every boss is weak to a specific tool or combat art. Meanwhile in bloodborne if your build is shitty for a particular boss you get fucked and grinding doesn't help too much because you still die in like 2 hits unless you put all your points into vitality. I only played BB offline so idc about summoning to beat things.

Sekiro out of those but I remember getting stuck in Kuon years ago and never beat it.

I'm not avoiding anything, you're just intentionally evading the points I'm making specifically for you to understand. Blocking won't win you every fight in Sekiro. You still need to attack. But blocking is so simple and easy in Sekiro that you can do it with impunity almost all of the time if you're unfamiliar with an enemy, and when your posture is high you can run away with your infinite stamina to recover it with almost no risk at all.

In the same regard that you can dodge roll in Dark Souls games too but that won't win you a fight either. You still need to attack. But dodging in Dark Souls is not so simple and easy to do against an enemy you're unfamiliar with because missing your dodge timing results in health damage that does not recover automatically. You need to exhaust limited healing options in order to stay safe.

You don't have an easy way to avoid death in games where timing your dodges is critical to surviving. You need to time correctly or you die. In Sekiro even if you don't time your block correctly for a deflect your likely consequence of this is just posture damage which you can recover at no cost. And even in the event where you take health damage from an attack that can bypass guard YOU STILL HAVE HEALING OPTIONS LIKE IN SOULS GAMES.

A good number of Shmups WAY tougher then any of the games in OP's poll. If you want a particular example, Dangun Feveron.
Again, none of the Souls games, Bloodborne, or Sekiro are hard.

>You can block shit in Sekiro too and you don't even need to spend a third of the game without the ability to block as you describe.
Because Sekiro is more of an action than Dark Souls, this is an irrelevant point.
There's a million ways to cheese Dark Souls like circle strafing for backstabs, magic, summoning, poise, that not being punished enough for blocking in Sekiro seems like a mild thing. I don't even know why we're having this discussion.

>i-frames are not infinite but they are always effective
If they are timed correctly. If they are not then they are essentially not present. This requires a modicum of skill. In Sekiro if you are spamming block and don't deflect you still block. The only time missing a deflect would result in damage to you is if you were not blocking as you tried to time your deflect.

It's you who is moving the goalpost here. The argument started by a faggot saying "timing" dodges and abusing the recovery time of enemies is harder than spamming block. And now suddenly you are arguing it was never about that spamming block is the go to answer but that the argument was solely about spamming block vs holding block.

Because it's way off topic from the original point. That's what happens when people like you jump into a conversation based on some goalpost moving someone else did.

oh yeah the chalice dungeon bosses can definitely be a bitch
idk, i think if you know the patterns then nothing should be a problem unless your vit is just severely underleveled. not even gonna lie when i say i've ran more than 10 builds on that game, having to delete save files just to do new ones and try all the different weapons. went full autistic on that game and no weapon seemed totally unviable whereas some would just break the game like the bowblade

>Shmups
Artificial difficulty: the genre

He keeps talking about Sekiro as if he was on the verge of ragequitting and yet he still continues playing it.

How is this off topic when the thread is about the difficulty of the games?

Demon of Hatred
2nd Owl
Isshin

Perhaps you didn't personally find them so difficult, but mechanically, they are designed to be more difficult and complex than the Boss AI we saw in previous souls-likes. Some of the other bosses in Sekiro approach those three, but not to the degree where they might too be comparable to Ludwig/Orphan or Midir.

The red garbed enemies in Ashina Outskirts at the end of the game are the only significantly imposing enemy encounters in Sekiro, due mostly to the sheer number of them, and the annoyance of dealing with the complex movesets of two or three swordsman at once, if you haven't either run past them. Unlike the rest of the game's enemies, they will also keen onto your presence far quicker than any other enemy in the game.Still, that's nothing compared to the sheer annoyance of Ya'hargul and the bell ladies, or the frustrating shark giants in Fishing hamlet.

As base games go, Sekiro is unequivocally the hardest single package From has released. I shudder to think of the fights that await any DLC to or to not to be released.

>Oof. Imagine thinking spamming parries is harder than timing rolls
This is what someone else said that a bunch of people took issue with. You all got worked up over this, and all I did was point out as a response to the bitching was
>If you spam the block button you're not punished for it. You'll still block the attack even if your timing is off.

That's it. That's all. You shit heads are frothing over a completely benign response that is 100% correct. You're not punished for spamming block. It's implied that you would only be spamming block in an instance where you would typically be holding block.

>Ludwig/Orphan or Midir
All of these three are easier than the ones you've mentioned above

My original post was pointing out how spamming block never actually lowers your guard. People falsely equated this to rolling in Dark Souls games as if rolling does not leave you vulnerable in Dark Souls games. It's not an accurate comparison.

If perilous attacks didn't exist you might have a point, but they do, so you really don't.

Good analysis. I agree with you except I still find BB's dlc bosses to be a tad harder than Demon of Hatred and possibly Isshin

see

>T-THOSE DON'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY SO
You asked for a hard game, I gave you a hard game. Not that I expected anything less from someone who unironically thinks any of the games in OP's poll are hard.
Also if you actually think Shmups are "Artificial difficulty: the genre" all I have to say to you is git gud fag.

you are definitely punished for doing this, but not against all enemies. If you try to do that against Owl or Isshin, for example, they will break your posture and kill you instantly

A lot of bias in this thread.
CoC SL1 Das2 is still unironically the hardest game.
We'll see if my opinions change after I finish my no upgrade no charm bell only NG run on sekiro

Not sure what's your point. If you spam block and the enemy does a perilous attack you'll get hit, ergo you get punished. Not to mention you're also getting punished for not deflecting normal attacks properly and doing posture damage.

You would not be blocking in those instances. You're not listening.

You are the smartest out of all 'Souls isn't hard' shitposters because you haven't mentioned MUH NINJA GAIDEN

Shmups that arent touhou are good games
Touhou is just memorization: the game
It never deviates from a set pattern

Funny you said that, Undead Giant in Lower Pthumeru walled me for about an hour while I did Logarius on my first try. I was around BL80 for both though.

Not shitposting though. I truthfully and unironically do not think the souls games are hard.
I didn't even mention touhou?

>If they are timed correctly. If they are not then they are essentially not present.

Just like dodging in Sekiro. Only that the Sekiro dodge doesn't have i-frames and isn't the default response to everything. Neither is deflecting. Nor jumping. Nor running.

>This requires a modicum of skill. In Sekiro if you are spamming block and don't deflect you still block.

Which is irrelevant for perilous attacks and is going to break your posture. In order to avoid damage in Soulsborne games your primary concern is timing and you're trying to compare it to deflecting as if it was the equivalent mechanic. We've already established that deflecting isn't the only defensive mechanic you have to use in Sekiro.

You're not understanding. I'll illustrate.

An attack is coming. You choose to hold block.
The attack hits. You take posture damage.

An attack is coming. You choose to try to deflect the attack.
If you miss your timing early, you block.
If you nail your timing, you deflect.
If you miss your timing late, you take health damage.

An attack is coming. You choose to spam block.
You miss the deflect, you still block.
You nail the deflect, you deflect.

This is because while you are spamming block you are still gaining opportunities to deflect while never actually lowering your guard. There is no window of vulnerability. Nobody should ever be holding block in Sekiro unless they're trying to recover posture.

This is not me claiming that spamming block is the answer to everything. This is me claiming that spamming block is extremely effective. It can even be done on conjunction with timing for attacks you are familiar with so even if your timing is off you still only block instead of take damage. The only time you should be taking damage in Sekiro is if your posture gets blasted from an attack you weren't familiar with, or you didn't know a perilous or unblockable attack was coming.

I never implied you should be trying to block perilous attacks. If your argument continues to hinge on you putting fucking words in my mouth then we have nothing to discuss. I'm aware deflecting isn't the only defensive mechanic you have to use in Sekiro. I didn't make that claim.

>do not think the souls games are hard
They aren't hard especially when you are not new. But they surely are challenging

Do that on NG+

Oh one of those "2hus arent shmups" types.

>An attack is coming. You choose to spam block.
>You miss the deflect, you still block.
>You nail the deflect, you deflect.
Not if the enemy does a perilous attack.

Still waiting on those saying Sekiro isn't hard to post some no bead, no charm while bell burdened videos of them killing bosses

Another downside is you don't gain the Posture regen you get from holding block.

This is not something I have an issue with because I'm more than comfortable deflecting with decent timing. I'm decent at vidyer. Telling people they should be spamming block instead of holding block is common sense and I've explained why in grueling detail.

You would not be blocking during a perilous attack. I explicitly stated that spamming is the better alternative to blocking. If you're not going to be blocking, you're not supposed to be spamming block either.

Thats at best. My first time playing a souls game I quickly realized the meme of souls games being hard was just that, a meme.
I'm just wondering why you're bringing up 2hu when I wasn't even talking about them. I have nothing against the series.

Spamming block with Centepede on NG+ without the charm is broken posture guaranteed, and that's the easiest enemy to spam block with in the game

But it's still superior than holding block. THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.

The point is that a master at blocking and deflecting is still going to eat shit in Sekiro if he's not going to engage with other mechanics. A master at rolling in Soulsborne games will avoid the vast majority of attacks because rolling is a more effective tool than deflect blocking. That deflect-blocking is more forgiving in a specific subset of cases (enemy doesn't use any perilous attacks or any AoE) is irrelevant because that doesn't apply to the majority of combat encounters in the game.

Holy fuck you are dumb. So you're saying block spamming isn't punished but enemies have attacks that you need to stop blocking to avoid, that's A LITERAL PUNISH FOR BLOCKING, you retard.

I wasn't the one responding to you. It's perfect deflect or run away for me

Sekiro

>Sekiro
>For the past month I thought it was spelled Seriko and read it as such.

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>So you're saying block spamming isn't punished
It's less punishable than holding block which is the point.
>but enemies have attacks that you need to stop blocking to avoid
Which you should do. Obviously. Don't strawman my fucking argument as if I'm saying you should be spamming at all times. You should be spamming if an attack you're unfamiliar with is coming, or an attack you know can be deflected but you're not confident with the timing is coming. If you know an unblockable attack is coming of course you're not supposed to try to block it.

>The point is that a master at blocking and deflecting is still going to eat shit in Sekiro if he's not going to engage with other mechanics
Nobody is saying you should be ignoring other mechanics. This is strictly telling people that spamming blocks has no downside compared to holding block, but has potential upsides.

Ideally. This discussion is to help people who are ignorantly holding block instead of spamming block because they aren't aware that spamming is identical to holding with the extra chance to deflect.

This.

meant to quote
for the second paragraph.

>only including modern fromsoft games
You don't know shit about difficult. This shit is unfair rape even when you're familiar with all the other games in the series and are importing a full save with everything unlocked from Nexus. Not only do enemy ACs cheat like before in terms of game mechanics, but they also did away with stat related handicaps like ACs in missions having lowered difficulty compared to when they're encountered in fair 1v1 arena fights, and there's no HP or ammo checkpoints like some longer-than-normal missions may have had in other games in the series. One of the literally first choosable missions pits you against a Human+ AC and it only gets worse from there.

This is the point a game is so difficult it becomes unfun to play.

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Are all FromSoft games like this? I've only played Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro. I've watched people play King's Field and Shadow Tower but they didn't seem all that difficult

not as bad as my friends that keep calling it Sicario

Make some new friends immediately.

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sEkiro is the worst

>changing the goal posts this hard
Holy autism
Your original point was that blocking isn't punished, when in fact it literally is
Stop posting any time

Don't try to tell me what my original point was when you literally misinterpreted it after I went through the trouble of explaining it to you again several times.
>If you spam the block button you're not punished for it. You'll still block the attack even if your timing is off.
This was my very original statement that people took issue with. Obviously I'm only referring to attacks where blocking is possible because I'm literally comparing it to holding block. Suck my pixie dick, queer.

Only BB bosses I had trouble with (outside of chalice dungeons) were Logarius and Orphan. Sekiro minibosses work me over on the regular however

>No armored fucking core
shiet thread

>Avoiding death is the first step. Being able to avoid death in Sekiro even if you don't know the movesets is very easy.
Go first try Isshin and guardian ape then. I'll wait

Comparatively easy to Souls games where you're punished for all of your mistakes with health damage. Many of the attacks from those bosses you mention are blockable and can be deflected. Some can't, but you also have ways to heal as well. Guillotine Gorilla telegraphs like a mother fucker anyway so he's a bad example.

>has no limit
Late game bosses will knock you on your ass in one combo if you’re just trying to block spam. Genichiro fills up your meter completely with his long combo, and that’s if you parry every attack correctly, with room for maybe one miss, before you’re stunned and eat a perilous for 3/4 of your healthbar.
Why is the fact that blocking exists and is viable for some enemies an issue, when DS combat revolves around blocking? You can EASILY beat every boss in 1 and 2 (and probably 3 if you were willing to find the strats) without ever rolling.

>try and block any of isshins attacks
>destroys your posture, proceeds to 2 hit you
wtf I thought I couldn't be punished for blocking!

harest to easiest
Sekiro>Ds2>BB>Ds1>DeS>Ds3

Stupid cunts I swear to shit. Spamming block is better than holding block. This does not mean blocking makes you invincible.

>If you spam the block button you're not punished for it. You'll still block the attack even if your timing is off.
Blocking in general is punishing. Deflecting properly will do posture damage to enemies, it's objectively better than blocking. If you're blocking in this game you're playing it wrong

You've not played Sekiro have you? You take fucking ass loads of damage when you fuck up.
You have limited healing items. Limit as in even if you have 999 of a healing item you are only allow 10 on your person.
Many of those bosses have you take damage even when blocking or deflecting even if the attack isn't unblockable.

soulsborne is retarded
just call it souls

Blocking is better than doing nothing, and spamming block is better than holding block. Timing your deflects with your block spam is safer than only trying to time deflects. This is not up for debate.

Yes it is. But doing both is better than just doing Spam.
Because Spamming block doesn't give you Posture regen like blocking does.

You're just demonstrating that you're shit at the game. I'm not stating you should try to block unblockable attacks.

lul
what a waste
you could have jump deathblowed the blue samurai and murked the grunts

I had more troubles in dark souls than sekiro tbqh

>Timing your deflects with your block spam is safer than only trying to time deflects
That's not timing your deflects, that's hoping you get lucky and deflect something. Deflecting attacks properly is objectively better, this isn't up for debate.

>Because Spamming block doesn't give you Posture regen like blocking does.
This is irrelevant. If you need to regenerate your posture you wouldn't be trying to deflect or stay within range of an enemy attack. You would only try to deflect if forced to. I'm not sitting here telling you to do anything except spam block in a situation where you normally might be trying to block an attack.

>Says block is an easy out to everything
>gets completely blown out of the water
>B-BUT YOU OBVIOUSLY SHOULDN'T JUST BLOCK!

I beat Lawrence first try because I was extremely overlevelled after doing Chalice Dungeons

You're not understanding. The window is larger than you think for you to time blocks and still have your guard up in the middle of your spam. You can time your spam just like you can time your deflect, which gives you the timing for your deflect AND guarding in case your timing is off. This prevents you from taking health damage by being late to deflect.

Demons souls

So you're fucking illiterate. I always said from the very beginning that spamming block is superior than holding block. End of story. It's stupid shit heads like you that keep up bringing instances where blocking isn't suitable when that's irrelevant to my point. Always was irrelevant but you butthurt cunts continually ignore this and shitpost.

I am always amazed with people that find Dark Soul 2 "difficulty" worth mentioning. Shit isn't challenging at all it's just traps all over the game.

Its amazing the lengths people go through to pretend they've played a game just so they can try and claim its easy.

Ok you can survive spamming parties and blocks but you'll never beat the boss if all you do Is block. Eventually your posture will break, you'll get hit for half your health, and your enemy will have 0% of his posture bar full

In other words you recognize you lost this argument.

If you're not deflecting you should be attacking, not spamming the deflect button. You're not playing the game optimally.

>but you'll never beat the boss if all you do Is block
Where the fuck do you see me saying this? What the fuck does this have to do with my point?

Why would you think I'm endorsing you be trying to block if an attack isn't coming?

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>. One of the literally first choosable missions pits you against a Human+ AC and it only gets worse from there.
what took you so long
my orders are to kill you

there is something wrong with your brain if you think the combat in any soulsborne is more fun and engaging than Sekiro. Enjoy it if you want, but don't pretend Sekiro isn't the vastly superior game and Miyazaki's magnum opus.

Retard.

I could go on about how spamming block decreases the window for deflection and is only done during the first 1-2 hours of starting the game, but it honestly doesn't even sound like you got that far.

Lol at all the babies voting for sekiro

You're endorsing spamming the button when the attack comes. It's better to attack and only L1 when necessary, some attacks can even be interrupted.

This isn't an argument to replace well timed deflections with block spam. It's an argument to stop holding block when you can be spamming it instead. Don't try to misrepresent my argument you stupid cunt.

That’s how Grandpa Isshin says it though
You hear it each of the five hundred times you attempt his fight.

Sekiro is "harder" just because you can't grind until you're overpowered and one-shot everything like in the soulsborne games, believe it or not, that's how most people play those games.
That's why you a have bunch of people saying they had no problem with DS/BB but they can't kill a single mini boss in Sekiro.

>and only L1 when necessary
Which would be a well timed deflect. Spamming block isn't supposed to replace well timed deflects. It's supposed to replace holding block. You wouldn't be blocking or spamming block if you're confident with the timing for the deflect. This entire point was to help people who still hold block against attacks they're unfamiliar with. Get that through your fucking head.

Both are shit strategies and you'd have to be a drooling retard to endorse either.

How well does your strategy to deflect all deflectable attacks work when you're unfamiliar with the attack patterns?

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How is telling you facts that fucking up takes huge chunks of your health and that there are attacks that blocking/deflecting won't prevent damage demonstrating that I'm supposedly bad at it?
It's fucking facts of the game.
Souls gives you the ability to walk around with a fuck load healing items with no limit. While Sekiro limits that shit no matter how many you actually acquired.

I hate how you guys are just thinking of bosses, Sekiro by far has the easiest non boss enemies and challanges

you learn the attack patterns. First run is always a test run so you should stay back and watch the boss from a distance and get a feel for the fight.

Only right answer here
Expect the thread to get flooded with children whose only experience with a from game is sekiro. Obviously the newest game is going to get the most votes

>Souls gives you the ability to walk around with a fuck load healing items with no limit
So you just want to make shit up for the fun of it as if I haven't played all of these games exhaustively. You're also avoiding the important part of that post.

I'm not stating you should try to block unblockable attacks.

You're trying to make it seem like I am in order to pull some bullshit argument up.

I also wasn't talking about unblockable attacks.
There are attacks from enemies that still damage you even when you block and deflect. They are not unblockable. You just take a portion of the damage if you block or deflect. Thats not even mentioning the fucking Headless that inflict terror on hit. Whether you block or defect doesn't matter.

Blocking does this faster and more effectively; especially when you consider you can run to recover posture and you'll get a better idea of what attacks you're likely to see when you're going to be up close in melee range. If you're constantly at a distance you're more likely to see longer range attacks which will not help you close quarters.

The bosses are always the main attraction.
What hard enemies did Souls have? Only ones that come to mind are mechanically annoying ones like the pogo stick niggas from Farron. Even the bulkier enemies like the various axe men were just a matter of “circle and poke”, simpler than even DS2 bosses.

Dark Souls 3 bosses.
Bloodborne FRC chalices.
Sekiro minibosses.

I was never talking about Unblockable attacks.
Some attacks just deal damage even on block but are not unblockable.

Which seems completely unnecessary. All of my playthroughs of the base game and DLCs have been on characters that were severely underleveled because I simultaneously used them for PvP.

>Sekiro
Hardest game until you've mastered how to play it, then it's 2nd
>Bloodborne
Not as hard as Sekiro to start, but Chalices are extremely hard even after mastering the game, so I'd put it 1st overall.
>Dark Souls 3
Harder than DS1 or DeS, but most veterans didn't think so because they were experienced with Soulsborne by the time they got here. Tied for 4th.
>Dark Souls 2
Hard for all the wrong reasons, namely bad hitboxes, janky movement, and enemy spam. Rank it 3rd, especially with the DLCs.
>Dark Souls 1
Easiest game of the bunch. Going back to it after playing the rest of the series makes that clear. It was just unique for its time, when most games were handholding simulators for literal babies. 5th place.
>Demons Souls
Not very hard for bosses, a few exceptions like maneater aside, but fairly hard for the actual stages. Tied for 4th with DS3.

i killed nameless king 2nd try just because i was so leveled by the time i found where he was. It's hard to compare a game you can make trivial through grinding vs an actual good game like Sekiro

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Maybe on early bosses but later bosses will fuck you up if you try and just block. Even then shit like chained ogre will fuck you up if you try and learn by holding block.

t. shitter who cried over nameless king a boss that would be mid tier difficulty in bloodborne and tutorial level difficulty in sekiro

None of this touches my point that spamming block is identical to holding block with the added benefit of coincidentally deflecting some attacks even if you're unfamiliar with them. You should never be holding block against attacks. That was always the point. This is only possible because there's no vulnerability window when spamming block. It always counts as a block.

This is an important distinction to make because it's assumed by a lot of Dark Souls players that are used to defensive techniques in Souls games like dodge rolling having a vulnerability window. If you miss time the dodge you can be punished for it, so spamming dodge can sometimes result in a hit. That's all.

I got both Sekiro (PS4) and Dark Souls Remastered (Switch), only played 2 onwards.
I'm playing both at the same time right now and I can confirm Dark Souls 1 is much harder. Cheap deaths EVERYWHERE. Stupid progression bullshit everywhere. Meanwhile Sekiro is pretty chill, getting all bosses on second, third time max after the initial period of getting used to it.

Cool, what about the 80% of bosses that are in a small room or will automatically recover if you try to run away?
Even the exceptions like Isshin or DoH will break out the projectiles as soon as you start running.

>Telling lies on the internet

You're pathetic.

Difficulty aside
Sekiro/Wolf is the best from protagonist since Michael from Metal Wolf.

Once again since it bears repeating, I'm not fucking suggesting you try to block unblockable attacks. I'm suggesting that in an instance where you might feel the compulsion to hold block you should instead be spamming block because there's no downside compared to holding it and it has an upside with the chance to deflect. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

there are rarely any non-bosses or mini-bosses in Souls games worth mentioning while some of the mini-bosses in Sekiro cause people to ragequit the game.

clips.twitch.tv/NastyArtsyPepperoniBIRB

Where is Armored Core?

I'm not saying blocking is going to win you the fucking game, idiot. I'm saying spamming block is better than holding block. I'm not saying spamming block makes you invincible or kills bosses.

Tapping block is one of THE BEST desperation options in Sekiro. user, please listen to this guy.

Alright guys i collected all the ingredients for the incent and have the aroma and Kuro instrcuted me to go to the cave after corrupted monk.

Is there anything i need to do or see before i head off?
I assume once i go i cant come back till after final boss is beaten.

Is there anything in the hall of illusions where you figth the four monkeys?
It seems like theres more to that area since it lets you go back.

>identical to holding block with the added benefit of coincidentally deflecting some attacks
When the fuck was I talking about that?
If you want that then know that spamming block gives you two downsides. Reduced deflect frames spamming block over just trying to deflect normally and No regen gained from blocking when you spam block.
There is two downsides.

I disagree. Spamming block on a slow attack just increases your chances of not deflecting it and taking big posture damage, while timing out a good deflection, which itself has a pretty generous window if you don't spam, means you almost always deflect and sometimes even get rewarded with a stumble.

Fast attacks are better to blockspam though.

>Sekiro/Wolf is the best from protagonist since Michael from Metal Wolf.
>FROM will never do a hammy, comedic game like MWC again after getting high on soulsbux
shit sucks man, you can only bear dreary and edgy stuff for so long.

This is you comparing spamming block to deflecting. The comparison I'm making is spamming block to holding block. You're not getting that through your fucking skull. I'm not suggesting you should be spamming block to try to recover posture either.

It genuinely makes me sad that Zoomers didn't get to play Armored Core. They don't hold up well today but were pure kino and very difficult.

i'm serious, i struggled with dancer more (probably 3 hours of trying) just because i didn't know you could burn those things at the bonfire to increase the effectiveness of your estus flask. The game's difficulty is really just a product of if you are over or under leveled at a particular boss.

You would not start spamming to replace a block you're attempting to deflect. You would be spamming block to replace holding block. If you aren't going to be holding block in that situation, you shouldn't be spamming block either.

nice rebuttal, retard

I'll always call retards retards when they're acting retarded, retard. Don't reply to posts acting like you're on some intellectual high ground either when you can't even be bothered to capitalize or punctuate your shitposting either, ESL urchin.

>You would be spamming block to replace holding block.
Okay fair enough.

Listen up, you autist. You're not supposed to block shit, saying block spamming is effective at not taking damage doesn't mean anything, this is worthless at progressing the game. You might as well just jump away from enemies or not engage at all, you're accomplishing virtually the same thing.

Oh then just the the Regen on posture. Also spamming block gives you a few frames of neither deflect or Block. Making you completely vulnerable. How about that.

>You're not supposed to block shit
Blocking is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

>this is worthless at progressing the game.
It's essential for saving time and learning timing.

>You might as well just jump away from enemies or not engage at all
This will not help you learn timing of attacks with visual and audio ques you only experience while blocking.

Right, I'm saying it's such a subjective argument because right now sekiro feels infinitely harder for me. But I also hear everyone saying that once sekiro clicks easit's easier. Hasnt fully clicked for me and I'm not sure how much I buy that because I've done ok with the bosses but mini-bosses keep pushing my shit in. I play bloodborne and the souls game drunk all the time and its second nature (developed a habit of drinking alone with my games because i travel for work and what else do I have to do in a motel 1000 miles from home)

meant for

>>Presses L1
>>enemy waits to swing
>>lets go then presses L1 again.
>>perfectparry.png

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the "click" for me was realizing it's basically DDR but instead of up left down right you have deflect, dodge, jump, attack. You basically just relentlessly "dance" with an enemy until their posture bar submits

>Also spamming block gives you a few frames of neither deflect or Block. Making you completely vulnerable. How about that.
It literally does not which was the entire misconception my original point was intended to remedy. Try it yourself. There is no window of vulnerability if you are spamming block. You either deflect or block. I'll say it again. There is no window of vulnerability. This assumption that there is a vulnerability if you spam is what Souls players make because they're so used to being punished for spamming dodge in Souls games because that mechanic DOES have a vulnerable window. Sekiro is different which is why I bothered to bring it up at all.

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You don't learn the timings by spamming block. You learn the timings by trying to deflect properly, get this through your thick skull.

Otogi is the hardest??? It was pretty hard as a kid I guess.

Spamming block is not intended to replace proper deflecting. It's intended to replace holding blocking. Get that through your thick skull. You keep making this faulty comparison by ignoring the fundamental fucking point I'm making. If you're risking your health by trying to deflect without understanding the timing first you're going to get punished by the game far more so than you would if you were spamming block until you're sure of what's coming next and THEN you try to deflect properly.

Nope, you're an idiot.

>FROM will never do a hammy, comedic game like MWC again after getting high on soulsbux
I found BB hilarious
The dude who runs into mirrors screaming GRANT US EYES like a goofy motherfucker.

Apparently Sekiro

youtu.be/g_HeUMgZfFc

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>you can hear the tears about to come out

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>It literally does not
That doesn't explain why it does it to me then.
Spamming block is a desperation move and used for early game and by people who can't capitalize on the outrageous parry frames when deflecting normally.
I assure you that there are frame in block spam that doesn't block or parry.

>No Armored Core games
>No King's Field
>No Adventure's of Cookie & Cream

Shit list.

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>risking your health by trying to deflect without understanding the timing first you're going to get punished by the game far more so than you would if you were spamming block until you're sure of what's coming next
Risking your health is how you learn the proper timing. Spamming the button does nothing except netting you a block or a lucky deflect, you're not learning the timing if you're smashing the button and not timing it, this is logic 101. Not to mention it's a bad habit that will fuck you up if you try NG+ without the charm.

You are 100% wrong about this. I've tested it thoroughly. It's likely you are either not spamming, or you're trying to block attacks that can't be blocked either because they can only be deflected, can only be countered, or can only be avoided. Any attack in this game that can be stopped by a block will be caught by block spam.

Since some people are talking about Armored Core itt how would you rate them. I only liked AC 2, 4, and 4:FA

>Risking your health is how you learn the proper timing.
It's how you choose to do it, but it's not the most consistent method for unskilled players that would feel more comfortable blocking instead. Keep this in mind. This is not attempting to change the way you play the game. You don't hold block, so spamming block is just as irrelevant to you. This is to prevent people who WOULD hold block from holding block because it's inferior to spamming block. Does that make sense?

I doubt you have since you weren't perceptive enough to know there are blockable attacks that still bypass your blocks and deal damage.

>Sekiro wins again

FEDORABORNE BTFO

SOULSFAGS BTFO

DEMON SHILLS BTFO

SEKIRO FOREVER

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And once again this isn't advocating that people be blocking when they shouldn't be blocking. This is telling people that they should never be holding block where they might normally feel like they should be holding block. This is telling people that spamming block is just as effective defensively as holding block but also has a benefit of deflecting occasionally. If you don't hold block then this doesn't matter to you. It wasn't meant for you.

Sekiro won for two reasons.
It's new and everyone is trying to play it like souls and are getting bodied even though it isn't actually as hard as people make it out to be.
And OP neglected to include ACE and Armored Core on the list of ""Modern" Fromsoft games.

Harder doesn't mean better. Bloodborne is still the best

Are you sure you're not just coping?

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Not blocking at all and attempting to parry on time is more effective than spam.
Spam is a desperation move and a crutch. Nothing more. Nothing less. Block is to restore Posture.

>He's completely right though. If you spam the block button you're not punished for it
>he didn't play on hard

can somebody explain to me all these retards who think sekiro is hard compared to other souls games?????
is this some big meme im missing out on or something? sekiro is probably one of the easiest games ive played in the last 3 years

>started playing on release day
>17 hours played
>just beat the corrupted monk
Am I a brainlet?

Did people call Bloodborne easy when it came out?

I've been playing Sekiro. I currently on Sword Saint and have stopped for the night. Started on Saturday. It was hard at first. When I was running on Souls reflexes and thinking dodging and taking down health through pot shots was the way to do things. I stopped doing that around the Ninja hunter decided to actually learn how to play the game correctly and everything just slid into place.

AC is harder than any Souls game.

I was with the Drunkard and then subsequently Lady Butterfly. I wandered in there early having only killed the first general and boy was I was getting demolished. But once I left there I was finally starting to understand the game some

Doesn't matter if it's better than holding block. It's still not a good way to learn the timing.

Attempting to deflect only pays off if you're good at it. People who hold block aren't that good. Of course spamming is a crutch. That's the point. Letting people know there is no vulnerability window is the point. Of course proper deflects are more effective. That's not the point. I literally just said that if you're not a player that holds block then this shouldn't matter to you. Your idea that bad players should just get better by trying to deflect without getting good opportunities to learn the movesets first is asinine. These players need more time to learn, obviously. If they're in a situation where they feel like they need to block to avoid dying they should be spamming block instead because it will keep their posture from maxing out at least some of the time which might just give them the edge they need to succeed.

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If you actually played Sekiro you'd know that the biggest struggle in this game comes from un-learning to dodge constantly, as you can do in all Soulsborne games for ez profit.

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It's hard for Souls fanatics who have the games mechanics ingrained into their reflexes.
They can't think to turn that shit off and learn how to play the game correctly so continue to play it like souls and get fucked over constantly.
It's not that the game is hard. People are simply playing it wrong and refuse to admit it's their fault.

Everything is easy according to Yea Forums

>sickdark fedora shit at 23fps
>better than anything
Cope, snoy

It's better than your favorite game

>Bloodborne
>Harder than Dark Souls 2

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see
Imagine you're someone who holds block in this game. Do you really think they're going to succeed by just inexplicably learning the timing of deflects without seeing the enemy movesets several times? All this time they're failing deflects they're taking health damage constantly and the amount of time they spend in that fight with that enemy is minimized, reducing their opportunities to learn. The best way to learn is to survive as long as possible and experience the timing of those attacks as accurately as possible. Their answer to this is by blocking. My suggestion to THEM is to spam block instead of hold block. Even if they only deflect a couple of times accidentally, they're still staying alive longer because their posture isn't maxing out as quickly. This gives them more time to learn.

For the last time spamming block isn't a replacement for timed deflects. It's a replacement for holding block. In an ideal world everyone would be decent at video games and they wouldn't need an edge like this, but this isn't an ideal world. It's also something people should be aware of just because it's another gameplay difference between Sekiro and other Soulsborne games where defensive mechanics like dodging possess windows of vulnerability when spammed but blocking in Sekiro does not.

Bloodborne is an incredible game but it has no replayability to me. For me, DS1 is my favorite not just for it being my first, but because I've replayed it so much. BB was really lacking in build diversity, though it has probably the most solid story and aesthetic.

Never played Soulsborne but Orphan of Kos looks harder than anything in Sekiro. He moves fast as fuck and has tons of AoE.

t. beat Sekiro NG+ in 2-3 hours

If that makes you feel better for buying a snoystation 4

The thing about Sekiro is you CAN'T just block or deflect against everything. There is no singular way to approach every enemy like Soulsborne boils down to.

You cannot just stand there and block some of the bosses/midbosses and you must be more aggressive. Yet for some, being aggressive is actually making it more difficult than it needs to be (such as the Lone Shadow Longswordsman where you can just block and deflect constantly then jab him a couple times and he dies.)

I never suggested that spamming blocking, or blocking in general, makes you invincible.

Chalice Dungeons and Old Hunters are harder than anything DS2 has to offer. Most of the difficulty in DS2 comes from lame bullshit like enemy spam and bad hitboxes, not genuinely good challenge.

DaS1 is on par with Bloodborne for me. I fucking love Demon's Souls but I just can't bring myself to like it more than Dark Souls 1. All of them are among my favorite games of all time though and now Sekiro joins them.

I bought a PS4 to play games because my PC is garbage. What's wrong with it? I don't care about the exclusives and all that stuff. I wouldn't care if BB was also on PC

Haven't played BB yet, but there's no way it's easier than DaSII where you can just get a couple of ADP levels and become invincible.

>Attempting to deflect only pays off if you're good at it.
Except it is absurdly easy since you have like what 20 frames on parry if you are not spamming and 8 on spam?
>People who hold block aren't that good.
Nobody holds block though. They only hold block to regain Posture. They don't use it to actually block.

There are three players.
The ones that still treat the game like souls and never block and think they can dodge everything. Die repeatedly. Claim the game sucks, and quit.
The ones that are on the Spam block crutch and have a hell of a time is half the games bosses
And the ones who chose to play the game as intended. Using the parry as intended with it's absurd window for parrying that puts DS2's 18 frames of parry to shame. While also Blocking to simply regain Posture because it is the fastest way to do so.

For the last time. Nobody Holds block to actually block attacks.

What’s stopping you? BB is a fantastic game

Hey look. It's the Sick dark faggot who pushed his term nobody latched onto when BB was released. How ya been you degenerate?

Not buying a console for one game.

>Orphan of Kos looks harder than anything in Sekiro
It's a meme. Orphan of Kos is not even the hardest in his game, let alone Souls. I don't know who started this meme

>DS1 last
Hello?

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Is there anyway for npcs to unaggro in sekiro? The guy sitting outside the ape cave got hit by me on accident when I was fighting and now he aggros on sight even after resting

Dark Souls 2 is one of the hardest games to no death speedrun m8, even if its shit and awful it still manages to be hard because of its almost artificial difficulty.

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Reminds me of good ol' days of Demon's Souls

I would normally agree but at this point in time ps4s can be found very cheap. I bought one for $200 on Black Friday a couple years ago just to play BB and it was worth it

>Except it is absurdly easy
You don't speak on behalf of all players. Many people find this game hard. see >Nobody holds block though
>They don't use it to actually block.
>Nobody Holds block to actually block attacks.
So your argument is bent around this idea that people don't hold block. I get that you believe that. It's completely unrealistic but I acknowledge that is your belief. In any case what I'm saying has no impact on you so you have no reason to reply in the first place. You're still trying to make it appear as though I'm saying spamming block is the best thing to do at all times. I've been very clear with you that's not what I'm saying at all. I simply stated that spamming block results in no vulnerability window so there's no reason to ever hold block to defend. You also agree that there's no reason to hold block to defend but for an entirely different reason. Your solution for those players is (if you even humor the idea of their existence) is to just git gud, whereas my solution is to help them stop making the worst decision and start making at least one decision that can help them survive a little bit longer. It's not going to make them win every fight or block unblockable attacks. It's going to prevent their posture from being completely overwhelmed when they have no idea what else to do aside from block. There are many people that hold block in this game when they should be spamming block instead. Should they be trying to deflect as well? Of course, but the most reliable way to succeed in a difficult fight is to learn the attacks and survive as long as possible at the same time. Your strategy is not viable for struggling players.

But it also has The Last Guardian and SoTC remake!!

Yea it’s annoying as fuck I hope he is not too important. He is the guy who talks about hearing the music underground before you fight the sewer ninja

He's not important at all, don't worry

i heard that when you spam L1 your parry window shrinks incrementally with each button press. can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

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I think I read something like that in the loading screens, but I'm not sure if it's true

If you couldn’t beat the 2 easiest Souls games in the series, I have no idea how you’ll even get past the first few bosses in Sekiro.

Weird is how getting back to Souls feels a lot easier anyway. I even dodge less, just when absolutely necessary or most often to roll attack.

I can confirm it is not true. Though I do believe the deflect window is reduced because you're inputting a second block before the deflect window closes, this reduced window doesn't actually get any smaller than that. Though an argument could be made that because you're opening more deflect windows in a shorter amount of time you might actually have more deflect window open over the course of several seconds. Someone dissecting frame data might be able to discern that.

If you could time the blocks perfectly instead of outright spam you could theoretically get the best of both worlds but the windows would be spaced further apart which you wouldn't gain much benefit from considering if your timing for inputs was that precise you wouldn't need assistance from block spam in the first place.

Dark Souls 3 and BB have the hardest bosses

Well yeah. The game is jank and badly made. So it is artificial difficulty
>You don't speak on behalf of all players.
Mother fucker I couldn't even hope to parry in DS2 where it was almost as easy to parry as Sekiro.
If you can't parry in Sekiro. Stop fucking playing because the only game that does it any easier is fucking Metal Gear Rising.
>see
That mother fucker obviously trying to play the damn thing like a god damn Souls game.
Made expressly clear on how he said you can't do anything when you get hit which is completely bullshit and untrue. fucker dodged away on a Mikiri counter. Fucker probably doesn't even know what a Mikiri counter is.
He obviously wasn't even attempting to play the game correctly and thought playing it like souls was the right way to go.
>So your argument is bent around this idea that people don't hold block.
Because they don't. Look at any streamer, And Youtuber playing this game as intended. They don't block attack. They aim for the parry. Hell. Most of them don't even know blocking restores posture so they block even less than necessary Or they Crutch and Wobble parry.
But nobody holds block.

maybe for you

Not for you? What Souls game was the hardest for you then?

Id honestly say sekiro, because at least with the souls games, you can grind until your stats are high enough to walk through the bosses. You can't really do that in sekiro.

I'd also say that sekiro is not a great game. Mechanically fine, but everything else is shit.

>Look at any streamer
I have. Many of them make the same mistakes. Holding block when they're still learning enemy patterns is one of them. Attempting to deflect without knowing the timing is another one. The second problem would be remedied by the first, and the first would be remedied by spamming block instead of holding block. These streamers who struggle with this game would benefit greatly from the knowledge that spamming block does not result in a vulnerability window.

yea Dark Souls 2 is trash but it still managed to be the hardest souls game.

Because it was designed to be hard. Other Souls games are not hard on purpose. At least Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 aren't

so in otherwords yes.

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Because it was trash.
That's like saying a tricycle is the hardest thing you rode in the cycle family because the wheels were triangles and you steered with your buttcheeks. It was designed like a piece of shit so of course it's the hardest thing.

>Just mash LB bro. You will be 100% safe!

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It wasn't designed to be hard though. It was just made badly. It was just made badly and played badly because of it.

The 58 that voted demon souls never used a bow...

fags who have never played the game but still come here to shitpost and say that the combat is trash BTFO

Bad example. you went it will no available posture.

>getting hit by that basic ass combo
what's it feel like to be bad at mashing a button?

I think it's both. It's poorly designed in all aspects and it's also hard on purpose. Difficulty is what sells Souls games to normalfags. PC port of DaS1 is literally called 'Prepare to Die' holy shit

I find it hilarious the one thing people were shitpost campaigning about Sekiro (it being easy) has turned out to be not only not true but most people consider it to be the hardest of the bunch.

Yea Forums is literally unequivocally empirically always wrong.

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It's not even that.
The guy had no Posture at the start of the combo so he got posture broken mid way through,
Even if he perfect parried the entire thing he would have still gotten posture broken.

>just try to deflect attacks when your posture is redlined
If you're not running away to recover posture in that situation you've either got some heavy balls or a death wish.

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The only thing designed to be hard was the DLC. Because it wasn't made by the team that fucked up the game in it's entirely.
But even then you add the Terrible everything about the game and it is still mostly chalked up to just jank shitty gameplay.

>tfw

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But Sekiro is easy once you "get" it? Granted I've never played Souls but Sekiro just becomes a rock-paper-scissors rhythm QTE game once you understand how parrying and perilous attacks work. Not even bragging as I died 20+ times to Butterfly/Genichiro until I "got" the mechanics, then everything was a cakewalk.

Cause I heard people saying that deflect will not break the posture bar so might as well risk it
Here's another to show how stupid fast your posture will fill up with just blocking. NG+ is even worse

I still think it requires more from the player than souls games, and the punishment for fucking up is pretty unforgiving. Average player is not going to have an easy time with the game, thus I consider it hard.

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Good deflects will keep your posture maxed but never break it, but any mistake and you're done-zo. But that combo can be jumped away from easily.

To be fair the biggest chunk of posture in that was from the blocked attack. The deflected attacks were fine.

Only because he has full health.
If he had lost any amount of health he would have taken more and kept any posture damage he received over time.

Just trying to say that mashing LB will not help you in endgame. Even the in game tip says that.

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Mashing LB isn't supposed to replace deflecting. It's supposed to replace holding block. If you don't hold block then it's not advice that will help you.

sekiro is not that hard, it just demands that you understand the mechanics.
this is coming from the guy that has never finished any of the souls DLCs because they're too hard for me.

And as multiple people have stated. Nobody uses block to simply block.

Well good for you, not many people will agree with you.

I've finished all souls and bloodborne content and I've still had more difficulty with Sekiro.

>no option for "your first"
You could have atleast added Armored Core 2

What's the hardest parts about Souls? Never played them.

This isn't true. Out of the few streamers I've watched stream Sekiro literally every single one of them were holding block when they were being attacked with moves they were unfamiliar with. Or they were dying because they tried to deflect without knowing the timing. None of them could deflecting right on any boss, or several normal enemies, on their first try. They needed to see the moves first, and when they were learning they were holding block and eventually they learned how to run away to recover their posture instead of continually holding block. Acting like nobody does it is absurd. Almost everybody does it unless they're a deluded Souls fanboy that insists on trying to dodge everything or they've got something they need to prove by trying to deflect everything at all times while spending twice as much time resurrecting or running back to the same enemy for round 2 for their failure. You're not going to be able to convince me otherwise because it both defies logic and defies the evidence I've seen first hand.

You should play Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, you are missing out

this, blocking is for enemies you are unfamiliar with. once you have a good idea of what their patterns are like, you go for the deflects

>Loran Darkbeast and Pthumerian Elder in Cursed Rotten Defiled Depth 5 Dungeons
Hardest From Soft has done, most BB players never even went there though.

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DS3 was so easy. You could just spam dodge. What did you find hard about it?

Staying awake.

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we should start running the opposite poll too, for which is easiest

I killed Genichiro on my 2nd try, but it was an amazing boss fight. The combat in this game feels great once you grasp the mechanics.

did you forget last week's results dumbass?

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Their dating sim is fucking brutal.

All I did was say "hi" and I got bad ending. Fucking hell.

Lost kingdoms 2

Not a good time for the poll because most of you are still shitty at Sekiro. Souls requires a lot more planning, while the most Sekiro has is the fact that you get two shot by everything. But even then Bloodborne at least managed to keep things interesting while enemies had the possibility of one-shotting you, while Sekiro just feels dumbed down.

Artificial Difficulty. Ng0 stands for noob game.

Dumbass